Only God Can Judge Me
June 13, 2008 10:37 AM Subscribe
Quiz: What's more annoying? On-line quiz posts or list posts?
posted by dersins at 10:50 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by dersins at 10:50 AM on June 13, 2008
This post caused 9/11.
posted by nasreddin at 10:50 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by nasreddin at 10:50 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Quiz: Who has more political influence? Religious zealots or Rappers?
posted by DU at 10:52 AM on June 13, 2008 [9 favorites]
posted by DU at 10:52 AM on June 13, 2008 [9 favorites]
There's christian rappers. I did not expect that. I don't know why; it seems reasonable enough. I am surprised that it'd be called Banging for Christ, though. That sort of leads me to think of the term "Christbanging", which is perhaps even more unsavory, although in an entirely different context. Ah well.
posted by boo_radley at 10:59 AM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 10:59 AM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Wait a minute, one of these questions is about a rapper who is also a religious zealot.
posted by delmoi at 11:00 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by delmoi at 11:00 AM on June 13, 2008
Why is Jeremiah Wright one of the answers? He's been famously pro-gay, gay couples go to Trinity United, etc.
posted by delmoi at 11:04 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by delmoi at 11:04 AM on June 13, 2008
And please join us next week for Which Smells Better? Ass Crack versus Taint?
posted by bicyclefish at 11:06 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by bicyclefish at 11:06 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
It's not a competition, people. They're both homophobic in their own special way, and both are meaningful.
Hugs.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:07 AM on June 13, 2008 [9 favorites]
Hugs.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:07 AM on June 13, 2008 [9 favorites]
Probably my uncle Bubba.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:11 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:11 AM on June 13, 2008
I'm glad it was only ten questions, reading those quotes made me feel sick to my stomach. How someone can think those things about me... I just don't know.
posted by arcticwoman at 11:15 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by arcticwoman at 11:15 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm apparently pretty good at remembering homophobic things rappers say. Still, though, this quiz can suck my gun.
posted by Nattie at 11:16 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Nattie at 11:16 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
DelMoi, you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
*points at self*
I was gonna jokingly come in here and just say, "I got 'em both beat" and think I was being cute. Then I took the test. Rappers honestly think and say this shit? Okay. Maybe I'm not as homophobic as I think I am.
Ironically, I didn't start listening to Eminem until after he did the duet with Elton John, cuz that performance was actually good work from both parties. I was like, "well if Elton John can see through Eminem's unattractive shell and see a talented dude underneath, I'm being really short-sighted and prejudicial by disregarding this young schmuck." Then I found out Eminem is, on top of everything else, homophobic which was fuckin' hilarious. Doesn't he know about Reggie?
"If I gave you sanity
For the whole of humanity,
Had all the solutions
For the pain and pollution
No matter where I live,
Despite the things I give,
You'll always be this way
So go 'head and
Hate on me, hater!"
- Jill Scott
posted by ZachsMind at 11:24 AM on June 13, 2008
*points at self*
I was gonna jokingly come in here and just say, "I got 'em both beat" and think I was being cute. Then I took the test. Rappers honestly think and say this shit? Okay. Maybe I'm not as homophobic as I think I am.
Ironically, I didn't start listening to Eminem until after he did the duet with Elton John, cuz that performance was actually good work from both parties. I was like, "well if Elton John can see through Eminem's unattractive shell and see a talented dude underneath, I'm being really short-sighted and prejudicial by disregarding this young schmuck." Then I found out Eminem is, on top of everything else, homophobic which was fuckin' hilarious. Doesn't he know about Reggie?
"If I gave you sanity
For the whole of humanity,
Had all the solutions
For the pain and pollution
No matter where I live,
Despite the things I give,
You'll always be this way
So go 'head and
Hate on me, hater!"
- Jill Scott
posted by ZachsMind at 11:24 AM on June 13, 2008
you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by dersins at 11:28 AM on June 13, 2008
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by dersins at 11:28 AM on June 13, 2008
There's christian rappers.
Many rappers are nominally Christian, as parodied by Mindless Self Indulgence in their song Thank God.
Thank god
For programming my beats
I'd like to thank god
for making me hard like I'm from the streets
God wrote all my dopest rhymes
Especially the ones about shooting niggaz and
getting fucking high
Somewhat more surprising is the existence of Christian Death Metal.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:29 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Many rappers are nominally Christian, as parodied by Mindless Self Indulgence in their song Thank God.
Thank god
For programming my beats
I'd like to thank god
for making me hard like I'm from the streets
God wrote all my dopest rhymes
Especially the ones about shooting niggaz and
getting fucking high
Somewhat more surprising is the existence of Christian Death Metal.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:29 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why isn't it just Pastors & Clergy if it's "Rappers"? Also, Beenie Man & Elephant Man - that's kind of a stretch. "Reggae Rappers"?
Most rappers aren't homophobic. But there are enough bad lyrics out there, for certain. I was listening to some old (of course) Audio Two last week, and I was surprised to have forgotten some of the really bad lyrics. Of course, all Milk's lyrics are bad, but you know what I mean.
posted by cashman at 11:30 AM on June 13, 2008
Most rappers aren't homophobic. But there are enough bad lyrics out there, for certain. I was listening to some old (of course) Audio Two last week, and I was surprised to have forgotten some of the really bad lyrics. Of course, all Milk's lyrics are bad, but you know what I mean.
posted by cashman at 11:30 AM on June 13, 2008
Fanny Dooley likes rappers but hates rap.
Fanny Dooley likes religious kooks but hates religious zealots.
Fanny Dooley likes quizzes but hates pointless online surveys.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 11:31 AM on June 13, 2008 [5 favorites]
Fanny Dooley likes religious kooks but hates religious zealots.
Fanny Dooley likes quizzes but hates pointless online surveys.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 11:31 AM on June 13, 2008 [5 favorites]
If your group is the subject of discrimination, you cannot be bigoted by definition. You're entitled to as much hate as you want.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:31 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Krrrlson at 11:31 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you go by Grammy acceptance speeches, all rappers are Christians.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 11:32 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 11:32 AM on June 13, 2008
you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I *think* the OP meant that he might be uncomfortable with gayness per se, but is against treating them wrong or different.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:35 AM on June 13, 2008
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I *think* the OP meant that he might be uncomfortable with gayness per se, but is against treating them wrong or different.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:35 AM on June 13, 2008
Zachsmind: you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
Dersins: This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I don't want to speak for Zachsmind, but I think it's quite possible for someone to be intellectually/politically convinced that it isn't right to discriminate against LGBT people, while still getting freaked out/made uncomfortable by the thought of hot steamy homosmexings.
I'll certainly take it over someone just blindly letting their prejudices drive them to discriminate and oppress us. So ZM, when I buy you a beer, you can rest assured that it isn't because I'm hitting on you.
posted by Drexen at 11:47 AM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Dersins: This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I don't want to speak for Zachsmind, but I think it's quite possible for someone to be intellectually/politically convinced that it isn't right to discriminate against LGBT people, while still getting freaked out/made uncomfortable by the thought of hot steamy homosmexings.
I'll certainly take it over someone just blindly letting their prejudices drive them to discriminate and oppress us. So ZM, when I buy you a beer, you can rest assured that it isn't because I'm hitting on you.
posted by Drexen at 11:47 AM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Slack-a-gogo writes "If you go by Grammy acceptance speeches, all rappers are Christians."
God also gives the love back to his hip-hop followers.
posted by mullingitover at 11:48 AM on June 13, 2008
God also gives the love back to his hip-hop followers.
posted by mullingitover at 11:48 AM on June 13, 2008
Then I found out Eminem is, on top of everything else, homophobic which was fuckin' hilarious. Doesn't he know about Reggie?
Yes.
posted by blucevalo at 11:48 AM on June 13, 2008
Yes.
posted by blucevalo at 11:48 AM on June 13, 2008
Many rappers are nominally Christian
Makes sense. The Abrahamic god is definitely a god that likes cappin' motherfuckers who disrespect him.
posted by cmonkey at 11:50 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
Makes sense. The Abrahamic god is definitely a god that likes cappin' motherfuckers who disrespect him.
posted by cmonkey at 11:50 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
Most hard rappers are gay anyway, they're over compensating with the tough talk.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:52 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:52 AM on June 13, 2008
7/10
Nice. You are spiritually sound, and really up on your crazy offensive lyrics.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2008
Nice. You are spiritually sound, and really up on your crazy offensive lyrics.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:59 AM on June 13, 2008
ZachsMind said: you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
dersins said: This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Along the same lines as what Brandon Blatcher said... I think a lot of people fall into that category, or at the very least, move through that category at some point before homosexuality quits being an "ick" thing for them. Sometimes the concept of homosexuality makes someone very uncomfortable but other reasoning -- "I shouldn't care what consenting adults do" -- means they are pro-gay in a political sense. They can simultaneously support gay rights but be nervous about being around gay people, or even dislike gay people.
I think in the absence of being raised by people who mention homosexuality, and mention it in a positive light, most people come to have an aversion to it. For example, my parents weren't homophobic but just never talked about it when I was younger, so I grew up with a feeling that it was unnatural in some vague way. Then when someone is forced to untangle what they think about it, say when confronted by something like politics, usually some hint of that aversion remains for a while after the initial rational acceptance of homosexuality. Some people stay that way, but in my own anecdotal experience with people, the aversion can fade completely given enough time and exposure.
Thinking back, I didn't give homosexuality any serious thought until I was 12 years old or so, and it horrified me then. I got over thinking it was morally wrong in a couple months, but still felt jittery about it for a while. By the time I was 14 I realized I was somewhat attracted to girls as well as boys, and I felt really weird about it and mostly tried not to think about it. Male homosexuality was gross to me at that time, as well. By the time I was 18 or so I didn't feel weird at all about being attracted to girls anymore, but male homosexuality still grossed me out. By the time I was, eh... 20 or so, male homosexuality was actually arousing to me.
So the whole process -- freaking out, then rational acceptance, then full acceptance -- took roughly eight years. That's a pretty long period of time where one can be homophobic but pro-gay. (I don't mean to imply that full acceptance entails being aroused by it whatsoever, by the way, that's just incidentally what happened with me. Most people probably are never aroused by it even once their fear of it is entirely gone. When my fear of it was gone, though, I found it hot.) It's probably even longer for people who aren't bisexual, or who aren't raised in environments that are pro-gay. (As I got older, my mom incidentally made gay friends at work so it became clear to me my parents didn't have anything against it. She just hadn't had any gay friends to talk about before. I also found out my cousin, that my father had ended up raising, was gay, and I just hadn't heard them mention it.) And then it takes longer if someone doesn't actually know anyone who's gay. However unfortunate, I've found that a lot of people don't get the proper push to get over their homophobia until they're confronted with the idea of person they know and like being gay.
posted by Nattie at 12:05 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
dersins said: This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Along the same lines as what Brandon Blatcher said... I think a lot of people fall into that category, or at the very least, move through that category at some point before homosexuality quits being an "ick" thing for them. Sometimes the concept of homosexuality makes someone very uncomfortable but other reasoning -- "I shouldn't care what consenting adults do" -- means they are pro-gay in a political sense. They can simultaneously support gay rights but be nervous about being around gay people, or even dislike gay people.
I think in the absence of being raised by people who mention homosexuality, and mention it in a positive light, most people come to have an aversion to it. For example, my parents weren't homophobic but just never talked about it when I was younger, so I grew up with a feeling that it was unnatural in some vague way. Then when someone is forced to untangle what they think about it, say when confronted by something like politics, usually some hint of that aversion remains for a while after the initial rational acceptance of homosexuality. Some people stay that way, but in my own anecdotal experience with people, the aversion can fade completely given enough time and exposure.
Thinking back, I didn't give homosexuality any serious thought until I was 12 years old or so, and it horrified me then. I got over thinking it was morally wrong in a couple months, but still felt jittery about it for a while. By the time I was 14 I realized I was somewhat attracted to girls as well as boys, and I felt really weird about it and mostly tried not to think about it. Male homosexuality was gross to me at that time, as well. By the time I was 18 or so I didn't feel weird at all about being attracted to girls anymore, but male homosexuality still grossed me out. By the time I was, eh... 20 or so, male homosexuality was actually arousing to me.
So the whole process -- freaking out, then rational acceptance, then full acceptance -- took roughly eight years. That's a pretty long period of time where one can be homophobic but pro-gay. (I don't mean to imply that full acceptance entails being aroused by it whatsoever, by the way, that's just incidentally what happened with me. Most people probably are never aroused by it even once their fear of it is entirely gone. When my fear of it was gone, though, I found it hot.) It's probably even longer for people who aren't bisexual, or who aren't raised in environments that are pro-gay. (As I got older, my mom incidentally made gay friends at work so it became clear to me my parents didn't have anything against it. She just hadn't had any gay friends to talk about before. I also found out my cousin, that my father had ended up raising, was gay, and I just hadn't heard them mention it.) And then it takes longer if someone doesn't actually know anyone who's gay. However unfortunate, I've found that a lot of people don't get the proper push to get over their homophobia until they're confronted with the idea of person they know and like being gay.
posted by Nattie at 12:05 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
1/10, but in my defense I don't know much about rappers. Either way, I don't imagine Jesus would have approved.
posted by tommasz at 12:10 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by tommasz at 12:10 PM on June 13, 2008
I was pro-gay but kinda grossed out by the actual thought of gay sex for a while too. And then I realized that all sex is sort of hilariously gross.
posted by rusty at 12:18 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by rusty at 12:18 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
Re: Quiz:
People with erroneous, painfully illogical, and/or inhumane ideas, particularly when those bad ideas are about other people, make me itch.
I wish there was a way to show them how foolish they are being without giving their backward ideas credence, support, or ammo for future attacks. Or making them more fearful, since that's allegedly the primary issue.
-----
Krrlson said:
"If your group is the subject of discrimination, you cannot be bigoted by definition. You're entitled to as much hate as you want."
I hope x100 you're kidding. I smiled, then realised you might be serious.
posted by batmonkey at 12:26 PM on June 13, 2008
People with erroneous, painfully illogical, and/or inhumane ideas, particularly when those bad ideas are about other people, make me itch.
I wish there was a way to show them how foolish they are being without giving their backward ideas credence, support, or ammo for future attacks. Or making them more fearful, since that's allegedly the primary issue.
-----
Krrlson said:
"If your group is the subject of discrimination, you cannot be bigoted by definition. You're entitled to as much hate as you want."
I hope x100 you're kidding. I smiled, then realised you might be serious.
posted by batmonkey at 12:26 PM on June 13, 2008
Yes, any sort of sex can be a bit off-putting. All that squelching.
posted by boo_radley at 12:28 PM on June 13, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 12:28 PM on June 13, 2008 [7 favorites]
you can be pro-gay and still be homophobic.
The "ick" factor for most people used to be the association of certain sex acts with homosexuals. Specifically anal sex. The irony being that those "acts" are performed by orders of magnitude greater rates by heterosexuals.
This isn't so common any more. Kids by now are anesthetized to any kind of shocking sex acts. And you sure don't make the big bucks in porn if you don't do anal.
After that the "ick factor" diminishes exponentially and usually homophobia is more a matter of a confused gender identity... like "My god what if I like men, too? What does that make me? A top? Or a bottom?" kind of thing.
I was like most young guys and pretty freaked out by gay men. Though my cousin was gay and my parents, traditional as they were, accepted him (family is family) where other members of the family simply would not. I learned young it was not a moral issue.
Still my cousin was very flamboyant and THAT'S what I though gay was. I was blind to gayness if the gay person did not fit that stereotype. I mean seriously naive. "Aw Shucks" naive. To the point I was asked out on a "date" by one of lifting partners, a very popular athletic dude (a Marine even), in college an had no clue until he said "God damn you really ARE straight!" Embarrassed he promptly took me home. Event after that point it took me a few hours. Hmmm. He paid for everything. We went to all male bars. Damn. I was on a date and I'm the chick! — Funny.
Now I look back on that and realize "Shit he was like A-List Male Model Good Looking and he thought I was cute. What an ego stroke!"
If given half the chance and not fed, homophobia dies on the vine pretty quickly.
posted by tkchrist at 12:32 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
The "ick" factor for most people used to be the association of certain sex acts with homosexuals. Specifically anal sex. The irony being that those "acts" are performed by orders of magnitude greater rates by heterosexuals.
This isn't so common any more. Kids by now are anesthetized to any kind of shocking sex acts. And you sure don't make the big bucks in porn if you don't do anal.
After that the "ick factor" diminishes exponentially and usually homophobia is more a matter of a confused gender identity... like "My god what if I like men, too? What does that make me? A top? Or a bottom?" kind of thing.
I was like most young guys and pretty freaked out by gay men. Though my cousin was gay and my parents, traditional as they were, accepted him (family is family) where other members of the family simply would not. I learned young it was not a moral issue.
Still my cousin was very flamboyant and THAT'S what I though gay was. I was blind to gayness if the gay person did not fit that stereotype. I mean seriously naive. "Aw Shucks" naive. To the point I was asked out on a "date" by one of lifting partners, a very popular athletic dude (a Marine even), in college an had no clue until he said "God damn you really ARE straight!" Embarrassed he promptly took me home. Event after that point it took me a few hours. Hmmm. He paid for everything. We went to all male bars. Damn. I was on a date and I'm the chick! — Funny.
Now I look back on that and realize "Shit he was like A-List Male Model Good Looking and he thought I was cute. What an ego stroke!"
If given half the chance and not fed, homophobia dies on the vine pretty quickly.
posted by tkchrist at 12:32 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's a rapper called Elephant man? He is not very genteel.
posted by Mister_A at 12:35 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 12:35 PM on June 13, 2008
There's christian rappers. I did not expect that. I don't know why; it seems reasonable enough. I am surprised that it'd be called Banging for Christ, though.
"I like big bibles and I cannot lie
you Christian brothers can’t deny
That when a girl walks in with a KJB
and a book mark in Proverbs you get stoked…"
posted by bradth27 at 12:38 PM on June 13, 2008
"I like big bibles and I cannot lie
you Christian brothers can’t deny
That when a girl walks in with a KJB
and a book mark in Proverbs you get stoked…"
posted by bradth27 at 12:38 PM on June 13, 2008
Somewhat more surprising is the existence of Christian Death Metal.
It's just regular Death Metal using the book of revelations as source material.
posted by sourwookie at 12:41 PM on June 13, 2008
It's just regular Death Metal using the book of revelations as source material.
posted by sourwookie at 12:41 PM on June 13, 2008
2/10. Apparently I really suck at identifying who is talking shit.
What really bugs me is that as I was reading these, it occurred to me that most of these people were never really called out on saying stuff like this. I'm sure that they caught some heat in the press, but I bet no one* when presented with (for instance) Shabba Ranks advocating for the crucifixion of gays, stopped him and said "What the fuck? Really? You want to murder people just because they are into something different that you? You're a fuckhead, you know that?"
That's something I think that needs to happen, this kind of thing needs to be spoken against the moment it happens, otherwise the lack of immediate response lets these assholes believe that the initial silence is the same thing as consent or agreement.
*: Wikipedia indicates that he was condemned by the presenter, but others waited and only spoke out against it when it became clear that it was affecting their image.
posted by quin at 12:45 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
What really bugs me is that as I was reading these, it occurred to me that most of these people were never really called out on saying stuff like this. I'm sure that they caught some heat in the press, but I bet no one* when presented with (for instance) Shabba Ranks advocating for the crucifixion of gays, stopped him and said "What the fuck? Really? You want to murder people just because they are into something different that you? You're a fuckhead, you know that?"
That's something I think that needs to happen, this kind of thing needs to be spoken against the moment it happens, otherwise the lack of immediate response lets these assholes believe that the initial silence is the same thing as consent or agreement.
*: Wikipedia indicates that he was condemned by the presenter, but others waited and only spoke out against it when it became clear that it was affecting their image.
posted by quin at 12:45 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
Quiz: Who has more political influence? Religious zealots or Rappers?
Who has more influence in general? Something tells me its probably rappers. If you grow up listening to this stuff then it might stick with you. Just because its secular doesnt mean its better or doesnt spread as much.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:53 PM on June 13, 2008
Who has more influence in general? Something tells me its probably rappers. If you grow up listening to this stuff then it might stick with you. Just because its secular doesnt mean its better or doesnt spread as much.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:53 PM on June 13, 2008
I am waiting for Omar to weigh in on this issue in his own inimitable way.*
* Which is to say, with a 12-gauge pointed at they ass.
posted by everichon at 12:54 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by everichon at 12:54 PM on June 13, 2008
What really bugs me is that as I was reading these, it occurred to me that most of these people were never really called out on saying stuff like this
Indeed. Another question on the quiz very well could have been: Who gets a more egregious free pass when they spout this kind of bullshit: religious folks in the mainstream media or rappers/dancehall artists in music journalism?
Most rappers aren't homophobic.
Not so sure I agree. For example, even the much-loved by white people as socially-conscious, politically-minded and very creative Mos Def has a lyric that goes "Cats who claimin' they hard be mad fag/so I run through 'em like floodwork through sandbags."
Show me a rapper who doesn't have at least a few lyrics where he revels in physical violence against others (funny how love of violence and homophobia so very often go hand-in-hand) and we might have found the one non-homophobic rapper, but even he would probably go through great pains to make it apparent that he's in no way fond of gay people.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:22 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Indeed. Another question on the quiz very well could have been: Who gets a more egregious free pass when they spout this kind of bullshit: religious folks in the mainstream media or rappers/dancehall artists in music journalism?
Most rappers aren't homophobic.
Not so sure I agree. For example, even the much-loved by white people as socially-conscious, politically-minded and very creative Mos Def has a lyric that goes "Cats who claimin' they hard be mad fag/so I run through 'em like floodwork through sandbags."
Show me a rapper who doesn't have at least a few lyrics where he revels in physical violence against others (funny how love of violence and homophobia so very often go hand-in-hand) and we might have found the one non-homophobic rapper, but even he would probably go through great pains to make it apparent that he's in no way fond of gay people.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:22 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Zealots? Rappers? My money is on Reggae singers.
Read the article - apparently Reggae singers are rappers now.
posted by cashman at 1:23 PM on June 13, 2008
Read the article - apparently Reggae singers are rappers now.
posted by cashman at 1:23 PM on June 13, 2008
@quin: For what it's worth, when Ja Rule said he didn't want his kids watching MTV because of gay people, he got a pretty big backlash.
People don't speak out when they agree, and people don't speak out when they don't hear about it. I think the main reason there isn't much backlash in general is because people don't hear it was said to begin with -- unless they're a fan who follows news about them. Unlike pop star news, rapper news isn't shoved down our throats. And more often than not, the fans either agree with the point of view or at least expect it and overlook it. That's almost certainly the case for the Jamaican performers, which had some of the more egregious quotes in the quiz; Time even called Jamaica the most homophobic place on earth. Now, that's Time, but it's still quite homophobic.
Plus, most of the people that would take umbrage to the lyrics don't listen to rap... because they don't like the lyrics. They hear a few songs, dislike it, and avoid it like the plague. They never hear what would offend them in the first place -- beyond their couple of introductory songs -- so there's less people to say, "Hey! That's offensive! Stop it!" On the other hand, those who like rap tend either to agree with the lyrics, or else come to expect those kinds of lyrics and it rolls off them. (I'm in the latter category.) If someone listens to music from Jamaican artists, for example, they know they're probably going to hear that sort of thing. People who don't listen to rap are pretty much just going to be exposed to the singles, if anything at all, and the singles released tend not to be so homophobic. It's the non-singles on the rapper's albums that usually have the homophobic stuff, and no one is exposed to those who doesn't know what to expect, for the most part.
When a rapper is reported in the media as saying something homophobic, it's almost never because of the verses on his songs. It's usually something he said in public, because then a wider variety of people hear about it and the media knows about it. Every now and then you'll get someone like Eminem who has a wide variety of appeal so the media will pick his lyrics apart. That's not typical, though.
Also, I have to say that most people who aren't fans of rap don't even follow what the rapper is saying after a couple of lines. It all sounds the same to them; just a bunch of cursing. There's also a lot of slang they don't understand. They just tune it out. Sometimes I've played extremely sexual rap songs in the car with people that don't like rap, and they don't register any of the lyrics whatsoever. It's kind of amusing. So it's likely that someone could hear a rap song with insanely offensive lyrics about homosexuals, and not even know those lyrics were there.
posted by Nattie at 1:36 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
People don't speak out when they agree, and people don't speak out when they don't hear about it. I think the main reason there isn't much backlash in general is because people don't hear it was said to begin with -- unless they're a fan who follows news about them. Unlike pop star news, rapper news isn't shoved down our throats. And more often than not, the fans either agree with the point of view or at least expect it and overlook it. That's almost certainly the case for the Jamaican performers, which had some of the more egregious quotes in the quiz; Time even called Jamaica the most homophobic place on earth. Now, that's Time, but it's still quite homophobic.
Plus, most of the people that would take umbrage to the lyrics don't listen to rap... because they don't like the lyrics. They hear a few songs, dislike it, and avoid it like the plague. They never hear what would offend them in the first place -- beyond their couple of introductory songs -- so there's less people to say, "Hey! That's offensive! Stop it!" On the other hand, those who like rap tend either to agree with the lyrics, or else come to expect those kinds of lyrics and it rolls off them. (I'm in the latter category.) If someone listens to music from Jamaican artists, for example, they know they're probably going to hear that sort of thing. People who don't listen to rap are pretty much just going to be exposed to the singles, if anything at all, and the singles released tend not to be so homophobic. It's the non-singles on the rapper's albums that usually have the homophobic stuff, and no one is exposed to those who doesn't know what to expect, for the most part.
When a rapper is reported in the media as saying something homophobic, it's almost never because of the verses on his songs. It's usually something he said in public, because then a wider variety of people hear about it and the media knows about it. Every now and then you'll get someone like Eminem who has a wide variety of appeal so the media will pick his lyrics apart. That's not typical, though.
Also, I have to say that most people who aren't fans of rap don't even follow what the rapper is saying after a couple of lines. It all sounds the same to them; just a bunch of cursing. There's also a lot of slang they don't understand. They just tune it out. Sometimes I've played extremely sexual rap songs in the car with people that don't like rap, and they don't register any of the lyrics whatsoever. It's kind of amusing. So it's likely that someone could hear a rap song with insanely offensive lyrics about homosexuals, and not even know those lyrics were there.
posted by Nattie at 1:36 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
I don't care what Weezy F. Baby says, he and Birdman are obviously boning each other, which I think is wonderful, I wish he's own up to it, that would make him 100 times more interesting.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:39 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:39 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hah, don't forget Diddy. And Bow Wow and Omarion are boning each other. That is the sex tape I'm waiting for.
For me, at least, all the gay things that go down in hip hop make me snicker when I hear the homophobic lyrics. A lot of rappers go to such lengths to prove they're 100% straight, but nowadays it just makes me think they're really gay.
posted by Nattie at 1:54 PM on June 13, 2008
For me, at least, all the gay things that go down in hip hop make me snicker when I hear the homophobic lyrics. A lot of rappers go to such lengths to prove they're 100% straight, but nowadays it just makes me think they're really gay.
posted by Nattie at 1:54 PM on June 13, 2008
I've found that the easiest cure for homophobia is giving a horny college dude a 12-pack of beer. It lasts for a couple hours, anyway.
I've been meaning to test this on those cute mormon guys out on patrol; I'll let you know how that turns out.
posted by troybob at 2:02 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've been meaning to test this on those cute mormon guys out on patrol; I'll let you know how that turns out.
posted by troybob at 2:02 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
If your group is the subject of discrimination, you cannot be bigoted by definition. You're entitled to as much hate as you want.
For instance, this explains the accusations of anti-Semitism leveled at other users on the site.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2008
For instance, this explains the accusations of anti-Semitism leveled at other users on the site.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:19 PM on June 13, 2008
Am I the first to mention this "Rappers on the Down Low" book?
posted by Faze at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by Faze at 2:39 PM on June 13, 2008
And then I realized that all sex is sort of hilariously gross.
Seriously, quit acting so dignified.
For instance, this explains the accusations of anti-Semitism leveled at other users on the site.
It would explain any gay anti-Semites, yes.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:59 PM on June 13, 2008
Seriously, quit acting so dignified.
For instance, this explains the accusations of anti-Semitism leveled at other users on the site.
It would explain any gay anti-Semites, yes.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:59 PM on June 13, 2008
It would explain any gay anti-Semites, yes.
Thanks for admitting your homophobia. That's progress, at least.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:08 PM on June 13, 2008
Thanks for admitting your homophobia. That's progress, at least.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:08 PM on June 13, 2008
Many of these questions are be about Jamaican dancehall DJs (Beenie Man, Elephant Man, Shabba Ranks, etc.), not "rappers", which is disingenuous at best. These guys come from a far more macho and homophobic culture than American rappers. Not that it excuses them, but someone who doesn't know rap or dancehall would think that these are all people from the same cultural background, which isn't the case.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:33 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:33 PM on June 13, 2008
I believe Bad Brains were virulent homophobes, also.
They absolutely are, and although they're legends and demigods now, they were widely hated for this in earlier years, and just for being jerks and Rasta bible-thumpers in general. When they played with Big Boys in Austin, they gave Bad Brains a place to stay, lent them some money, etc. When they found out Big Boys' singer was gay, they left town without telling anyone or paying back the money, and left a note reading "burn in hell bumboclot faggot" or something like that. MDC had a song about the incident.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:38 PM on June 13, 2008
They absolutely are, and although they're legends and demigods now, they were widely hated for this in earlier years, and just for being jerks and Rasta bible-thumpers in general. When they played with Big Boys in Austin, they gave Bad Brains a place to stay, lent them some money, etc. When they found out Big Boys' singer was gay, they left town without telling anyone or paying back the money, and left a note reading "burn in hell bumboclot faggot" or something like that. MDC had a song about the incident.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:38 PM on June 13, 2008
Y'all are acting like there are miles of differences between "rappers" and dancehall artists.
Considering both sprang from the same branch in the same timeframe in predominantly Jamaican communities by MCs speaking over break beat sets by genre-blurring DJs, have traded artists back and forth from the beginning, and a music library containing one is highly likely to contain the other, this unnecessarily blurs the issue.
RADAR's point remains solid: focused groups of disenfranchised people are being given the message that it is normal, right, and accepted to hate and wish harm upon gay people.
posted by batmonkey at 4:19 PM on June 13, 2008
Considering both sprang from the same branch in the same timeframe in predominantly Jamaican communities by MCs speaking over break beat sets by genre-blurring DJs, have traded artists back and forth from the beginning, and a music library containing one is highly likely to contain the other, this unnecessarily blurs the issue.
RADAR's point remains solid: focused groups of disenfranchised people are being given the message that it is normal, right, and accepted to hate and wish harm upon gay people.
posted by batmonkey at 4:19 PM on June 13, 2008
Y'all are acting like there are miles of differences between "rappers" and dancehall artists.
I think that there is, considering that they come from completely different cultures. Jamaican culture is extremely macho and hyper-masculine, far more so than even the hyper-masculine American ghetto culture. A "chichi mon" is the worst thing a Jamaican male can possibly be, according to how these guys are raised and taught. Plus there's the influence of the Rastafarian religion, which is just as anti-gay, if not more so, than the Southern Baptists or Assemblies of God.
posted by DecemberBoy at 4:50 PM on June 13, 2008
I think that there is, considering that they come from completely different cultures. Jamaican culture is extremely macho and hyper-masculine, far more so than even the hyper-masculine American ghetto culture. A "chichi mon" is the worst thing a Jamaican male can possibly be, according to how these guys are raised and taught. Plus there's the influence of the Rastafarian religion, which is just as anti-gay, if not more so, than the Southern Baptists or Assemblies of God.
posted by DecemberBoy at 4:50 PM on June 13, 2008
The reason I said they both came from predominantly Jamaican areas is because they did.
Even without that, they don't come from completely different cultures. They come from two very related cultures which have even served to reinforce each other repeatedly over the past 40 years. Symbolism, artists, themes, trends, and even entire movements have been fueled by the close relationships able to form between Jamaicans and African-Americans, whether separated by water or a stoop.
Further, it's not just Jamaicans who take pride in machismo and hyper-masculinity, as far as diasporic cultures go. African-American males face the same challenge, per traditional African-American culture and then doubled by the psychotic hardness of the ghetto-centric subculture. Partially bolstered, yes, by the heavy influence of fundamentalist ideologies.
It's a sad feature of many cultures--however they are or are not related--and, as this quiz neatly showed, they have more in common than many expect. It's sucks that what they have in common is intolerance and continuing the spread of a violently xenophobic meme.
posted by batmonkey at 5:32 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Even without that, they don't come from completely different cultures. They come from two very related cultures which have even served to reinforce each other repeatedly over the past 40 years. Symbolism, artists, themes, trends, and even entire movements have been fueled by the close relationships able to form between Jamaicans and African-Americans, whether separated by water or a stoop.
Further, it's not just Jamaicans who take pride in machismo and hyper-masculinity, as far as diasporic cultures go. African-American males face the same challenge, per traditional African-American culture and then doubled by the psychotic hardness of the ghetto-centric subculture. Partially bolstered, yes, by the heavy influence of fundamentalist ideologies.
It's a sad feature of many cultures--however they are or are not related--and, as this quiz neatly showed, they have more in common than many expect. It's sucks that what they have in common is intolerance and continuing the spread of a violently xenophobic meme.
posted by batmonkey at 5:32 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Many rappers are nominally Christian
many christians are nominally christians.
posted by msconduct at 5:35 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
many christians are nominally christians.
posted by msconduct at 5:35 PM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
I've found that the easiest cure for homophobia is giving a horny college dude a 12-pack of beer. It lasts for a couple hours, anyway.
I've been meaning to test this on those cute mormon guys out on patrol; I'll let you know how that turns out.
So how are you going to get them to drink the beer first? This sounds like there's a hole in your bucket.
posted by artifarce at 6:41 PM on June 13, 2008
I've been meaning to test this on those cute mormon guys out on patrol; I'll let you know how that turns out.
So how are you going to get them to drink the beer first? This sounds like there's a hole in your bucket.
posted by artifarce at 6:41 PM on June 13, 2008
So how are you going to get them to drink the beer first?
I didn't say it wouldn't take some patience. The first step is to tempt them into a caffeinated beverage, which shouldn't take too long with the thermostat at max setting and a casual introduction to my personal 'Joseph Smith Trivia Drinking Game.' From there, I estimate it will be about 45 minutes til i get them to try poppers...
posted by troybob at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2008
I didn't say it wouldn't take some patience. The first step is to tempt them into a caffeinated beverage, which shouldn't take too long with the thermostat at max setting and a casual introduction to my personal 'Joseph Smith Trivia Drinking Game.' From there, I estimate it will be about 45 minutes til i get them to try poppers...
posted by troybob at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2008
(and by "hole in your bucket," I of course, mean the old nursery song about how there's a hole in the bucket, which leads to a long line of solutions to fix the problem with the previous solution, which of course leads to the final solution being hauling water with the bucket. Mormons don't drink. But maybe you knew that!)
posted by artifarce at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by artifarce at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2008
Mormons don't drink.
It's true. What moisture they can't absorb through their gill slits they get by licking sparse dew drops off of leaves. Kind of like desert lizards.
They also can see into the Infrared spectrum!
Yay. Fun Mormon Facts!
posted by tkchrist at 7:55 PM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's true. What moisture they can't absorb through their gill slits they get by licking sparse dew drops off of leaves. Kind of like desert lizards.
They also can see into the Infrared spectrum!
Yay. Fun Mormon Facts!
posted by tkchrist at 7:55 PM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
i'm proud to offer, as my very first contribution to metafilter (long time glistener, first time squalor, amirite?), the only pro-gay rap song i know.
(the front and others of his ilk, previously. i'd wager that theirs is a hiphop subgenre not very inclined to either homophobia or christianity.)
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 9:15 PM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
(the front and others of his ilk, previously. i'd wager that theirs is a hiphop subgenre not very inclined to either homophobia or christianity.)
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 9:15 PM on June 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Hello?! The greatest rappers ARE Religious Zealots. Lots of them, anyway. Jay-Z and Busta too, if they're not in the article.
posted by Flex1970 at 9:37 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by Flex1970 at 9:37 PM on June 13, 2008
"I've found that the easiest cure for homophobia is giving a horny college dude a 12-pack of beer. It lasts for a couple hours, anyway."
Nah, I think that's exactly wrong. Or at least, there's a rebound once that couple of hours are over. Everyone who has one likes getting their cock sucked, but precisely the combination of enjoyment and ick factor can drive the hate. That kid hates that you made him feel like that, and hates himself that he did, and is that little bit more motivated to give someone a good kicking to prove that his het credentials are still good.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:23 PM on June 13, 2008
Nah, I think that's exactly wrong. Or at least, there's a rebound once that couple of hours are over. Everyone who has one likes getting their cock sucked, but precisely the combination of enjoyment and ick factor can drive the hate. That kid hates that you made him feel like that, and hates himself that he did, and is that little bit more motivated to give someone a good kicking to prove that his het credentials are still good.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:23 PM on June 13, 2008
Others earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head in a way that I've been unsuccessful describing in the past. I'd try to convey that and people would just get pissed off at me cuz they'd take it personally, or they'd be unable to see the plain separation and contrast between what my brain knows to be logical and factual, and what my heart and gut feel about the subject.
I try using metaphors like broccoli (I like broccoli but many others don't so this is a reverse metaphor that generally confuses everybody so i should really stop even mentioning it) or spiders (spiders don't bother me unless there's one in the room and the closer I get to a spider the more it creeps me out but the spider's just sittin there minding its own business), which essentially means I'm comparing gay men to vegetables or arachnids. It never ends well.
I think on some unconscious level for really homophobic types - the types who don't know they are homophobic and may lash out violently, like for example maybe a gun-toting rapper not that I mean to perpetuate stereotypes - the true underlying fear is that if they accept it for other people then they may find they have to accept that lifestyle for themselves. And some of them may come out of that actually being gay, which means many things about their view on reality would have to change in order to accept that. It would me the end of their closed-minded view of reality.
I've already gone through that shit. I came out still straight. Had I come outta the closet as the old saying goes, I don't own guns and I'm a pacifist, so I imagine I woulda handled it less violently. However, I'd probably still get that same weird ass feeling ya get when a spider's in the same room, so I woulda spent the rest of my life bashing my own face in with a rolled up newspaper. Comedy ain't pretty.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:35 AM on June 14, 2008
I try using metaphors like broccoli (I like broccoli but many others don't so this is a reverse metaphor that generally confuses everybody so i should really stop even mentioning it) or spiders (spiders don't bother me unless there's one in the room and the closer I get to a spider the more it creeps me out but the spider's just sittin there minding its own business), which essentially means I'm comparing gay men to vegetables or arachnids. It never ends well.
I think on some unconscious level for really homophobic types - the types who don't know they are homophobic and may lash out violently, like for example maybe a gun-toting rapper not that I mean to perpetuate stereotypes - the true underlying fear is that if they accept it for other people then they may find they have to accept that lifestyle for themselves. And some of them may come out of that actually being gay, which means many things about their view on reality would have to change in order to accept that. It would me the end of their closed-minded view of reality.
I've already gone through that shit. I came out still straight. Had I come outta the closet as the old saying goes, I don't own guns and I'm a pacifist, so I imagine I woulda handled it less violently. However, I'd probably still get that same weird ass feeling ya get when a spider's in the same room, so I woulda spent the rest of my life bashing my own face in with a rolled up newspaper. Comedy ain't pretty.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:35 AM on June 14, 2008
"pro-gay but homophobic" is like "I support your right to eat pig's eyeballs, but ewwww!"
posted by desjardins at 6:28 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by desjardins at 6:28 AM on June 14, 2008
The first question told me that I was wrong, because a black woman "working on a gospel album" was responsible for the homophobic quote. I think they intentionally miscategorized these.
posted by rxrfrx at 6:35 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by rxrfrx at 6:35 AM on June 14, 2008
I believe Bad Brains were virulent homophobes, also.
Ever heard their cover of (mostly gay) Wire's (mostly gay) song "12XU"?
Yeah... they changed some of the words.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2008
Ever heard their cover of (mostly gay) Wire's (mostly gay) song "12XU"?
Yeah... they changed some of the words.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2008
Guys like Mos Def (Eminem's the most high-profile one) often defend themselves from charges of homophobia by saying that 'fag' doesn't mean gay person, but, y'know, some kind of soft punk sissy (yeah, I already know about the origins of the word 'punk'). Hip-hop fans with longer memories may see some parallels to the discussion over 'bitch,' 'ho,' and other negatively-charged words.
posted by box at 9:53 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by box at 9:53 AM on June 14, 2008
Add me to the "pro-gay but incredibly squicked out by the thought of partaking in homosexings" club. Seriously, I am hugely in favor of full marriage rights and non-discrimination for gays, I have many friends who are gay, and I am fully supportive and acceptive of them. I have even played gay matchmaker on occasion. I also happen to live in one of the gayest neighborhoods in America, and I love it - living close to lots of gay men means access to fabulous little restaurants, boutiques, art galleries, cafes, etc.
But. The very idea of being involved in any kind of gay sexing myself... well, there's a visceral revulsion there that I don't think I will ever be able to get past.
posted by jagorev at 4:28 PM on June 14, 2008
But. The very idea of being involved in any kind of gay sexing myself... well, there's a visceral revulsion there that I don't think I will ever be able to get past.
posted by jagorev at 4:28 PM on June 14, 2008
Rest assured that I know quite a few fellows who are equally ickied by those confounded mystery-meat ladyparts.
The moral of the story being, I guess, that people tend to do what they like, and, likewise, not do what they don't like. Being squicked out by the man-man bam-bam isn't homophobia--it's heterosexuality. It's okay. Really.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:08 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
The moral of the story being, I guess, that people tend to do what they like, and, likewise, not do what they don't like. Being squicked out by the man-man bam-bam isn't homophobia--it's heterosexuality. It's okay. Really.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:08 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sage Francis, on Hope:
Ah, forget it. It's actually accepted for rappers to have no ethics
Their albums would benefit if they put in half the effort
I attended candlelight vigils for Matthew Shepard
While you put out another "fuck you, faggot" record
posted by churl at 10:56 PM on June 14, 2008
Ah, forget it. It's actually accepted for rappers to have no ethics
Their albums would benefit if they put in half the effort
I attended candlelight vigils for Matthew Shepard
While you put out another "fuck you, faggot" record
posted by churl at 10:56 PM on June 14, 2008
Wait. I'm confused.
When Snoop raps to Eazy-E, 'I'm hollerin one-eight-seven with my dick in yo' mouth, beeyatch', is this some sort of non-gay, man-on-man, BDSM edgeplay blowjob that he's referring to?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:13 AM on June 15, 2008
When Snoop raps to Eazy-E, 'I'm hollerin one-eight-seven with my dick in yo' mouth, beeyatch', is this some sort of non-gay, man-on-man, BDSM edgeplay blowjob that he's referring to?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:13 AM on June 15, 2008
It's called the down low.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:13 AM on June 15, 2008
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:13 AM on June 15, 2008
I don't think "homophobic" is the appropriate term. I think both Religious Zealots and Rappers are most frequently closet homo cases trying to create an image that is most distracting from who they really are .
posted by screenname00 at 6:44 AM on June 15, 2008
posted by screenname00 at 6:44 AM on June 15, 2008
That, or they're just jerks.
"OMG overcompensating closet case" is itself a somewhat homophobic attitude. (Anyone who says it is obviously totally queer.)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:23 AM on June 15, 2008
"OMG overcompensating closet case" is itself a somewhat homophobic attitude. (Anyone who says it is obviously totally queer.)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:23 AM on June 15, 2008
this queer here is failing to see how calling someone "closeted" is homophobic. Is "homophobic" a general term we can use for pretty much everything? sweet. Homophobic houses on homophobe hills in homophobe county.
posted by screenname00 at 9:20 AM on June 15, 2008
posted by screenname00 at 9:20 AM on June 15, 2008
unpoppy: Note the qualifier, "somewhat."
There's a very, very fine line between suggesting that a group of people "are most frequently closet homo cases" (which, is, quite frankly, complete and utter bollocks) and those people calling us "a bunch of faggots."
Here's the thing: When a person such as a rapper or a religiot, who has devoted his or her entire career to proving how "hard" or pious they are, hears someone accuse them of being in the closet, how do you suppose they'll to react? Is there even the remotest chance they'll issue a press release stating, "Hey, you know what? Those guys have sure got my number, alright! I really am just living a lie, and doing an awful job of it too. Gosh, I'm awful sorry!"
Not going to happen. They may, however, escalate the supposed charade, possibly to the point of violence.
"Homophobe = Closeted" is a purely speculative version of that "self-hating Jew" bullshit. The whole argument is absolutely worthless. It helps no one, and indeed can only cause the chasm of hatred and mutual resentment to widen.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:17 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's a very, very fine line between suggesting that a group of people "are most frequently closet homo cases" (which, is, quite frankly, complete and utter bollocks) and those people calling us "a bunch of faggots."
Here's the thing: When a person such as a rapper or a religiot, who has devoted his or her entire career to proving how "hard" or pious they are, hears someone accuse them of being in the closet, how do you suppose they'll to react? Is there even the remotest chance they'll issue a press release stating, "Hey, you know what? Those guys have sure got my number, alright! I really am just living a lie, and doing an awful job of it too. Gosh, I'm awful sorry!"
Not going to happen. They may, however, escalate the supposed charade, possibly to the point of violence.
"Homophobe = Closeted" is a purely speculative version of that "self-hating Jew" bullshit. The whole argument is absolutely worthless. It helps no one, and indeed can only cause the chasm of hatred and mutual resentment to widen.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:17 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just because someone don't like something, does not mean they either fear it or hate it. Just because someone else doesn't love the thing you love, doesn't mean they are wrong.
Now, that becomes a little problematic when you are talking about people, and so I will just say that there is a difference between not liking something (passive resistance) and actual discrimination of something (active resistance).
The thing I have noticed lately is that social liberals tend to insist that they alone know the one true truth, and everyone else is wrong. I've been noticing just how often their opinion is backed up by nothing other then their opinion. Liberals are kinda assholes, in their own special snowflake way.
Also, I am apparently considered "transgendered", according to the trannie manifesto, even though I think the whole thing is a fetish and those freaks are clinically insane. The reason they would consider me transgendered is because I am androgynous (and score that way on gender tests). Personally, I have zero interest in living my life as if I possess either a male or female gender, and I think anybody who makes gender their life's mission is creepy.
And I'm totally in favor of active resistance to them. They are fetishing body parts, for god's sake.
posted by bravelittletoaster at 8:08 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Now, that becomes a little problematic when you are talking about people, and so I will just say that there is a difference between not liking something (passive resistance) and actual discrimination of something (active resistance).
The thing I have noticed lately is that social liberals tend to insist that they alone know the one true truth, and everyone else is wrong. I've been noticing just how often their opinion is backed up by nothing other then their opinion. Liberals are kinda assholes, in their own special snowflake way.
Also, I am apparently considered "transgendered", according to the trannie manifesto, even though I think the whole thing is a fetish and those freaks are clinically insane. The reason they would consider me transgendered is because I am androgynous (and score that way on gender tests). Personally, I have zero interest in living my life as if I possess either a male or female gender, and I think anybody who makes gender their life's mission is creepy.
And I'm totally in favor of active resistance to them. They are fetishing body parts, for god's sake.
posted by bravelittletoaster at 8:08 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
bravelittletoaster : Also, I am apparently considered "transgendered", according to the trannie manifesto, even though I think the whole thing is a fetish and those freaks are clinically insane.
Psychologists have disagreed with you on this since, what, the 1980s? Just because someone else doesn't "have zero interest in living my life as if I possess either a male or female gender", doesn't mean you can play the puritan and throw them all in the 'disgusting fetishist' box.
The thing I have noticed lately is that social liberals tend to insist that they alone know the one true truth, and everyone else is wrong.
This doesn't even make much sense. "Social liberals" have opinions on various things which they hold to be more correct than other peoples' opinions -- exactly the same as everybody else does. And people, liberal or conservative, often make arguments that they can't back up with evidence - that's just human nature. For instance, the sweeping generalizations you made in your post but haven't backed up.
I'm guessing you have an axe to grind with certain people who've tried to get you to participate in various crusades and arguments which you aren't interested in, since you see yourself as divorced from gender. Fine, I'm sure they deserve it. But the kind of trollish generalizations you make aren't the way to go about it on a public messageboard, IMO.
posted by Drexen at 4:18 AM on June 16, 2008
Psychologists have disagreed with you on this since, what, the 1980s? Just because someone else doesn't "have zero interest in living my life as if I possess either a male or female gender", doesn't mean you can play the puritan and throw them all in the 'disgusting fetishist' box.
The thing I have noticed lately is that social liberals tend to insist that they alone know the one true truth, and everyone else is wrong.
This doesn't even make much sense. "Social liberals" have opinions on various things which they hold to be more correct than other peoples' opinions -- exactly the same as everybody else does. And people, liberal or conservative, often make arguments that they can't back up with evidence - that's just human nature. For instance, the sweeping generalizations you made in your post but haven't backed up.
I'm guessing you have an axe to grind with certain people who've tried to get you to participate in various crusades and arguments which you aren't interested in, since you see yourself as divorced from gender. Fine, I'm sure they deserve it. But the kind of trollish generalizations you make aren't the way to go about it on a public messageboard, IMO.
posted by Drexen at 4:18 AM on June 16, 2008
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posted by Naberius at 10:48 AM on June 13, 2008 [10 favorites]