Comments on: Church Committee 2.0: TSP, Main Core & PROMIS?

Church Committee 2.0: TSP, Main Core & PROMIS?

scalefree — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:12:14 -0800

Is Congress gearing up to hold a new American Truth Commission? What new horrors would they find if they did? The last time we tried this we uncovered MK/ULTRA, plots to kill Castro & Project SHAMROCK. One of the most significant outcomes was a little thing called FISA. After 30 years it may finally be time to wash out our national dirty laundry again.

By: JaredSeth

JaredSeth — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:14:21 -0800

Your first link is redirecting to the Salon home page in Firefox for some reason, but seems to work fine in IE.

By: scalefree

scalefree — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:17:09 -0800

I went for the print version because I hate multipage articles. This one may work better, or it may not. Blame Salon.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:18:42 -0800

Previous post on Main Core.

By: TheOnlyCoolTim

TheOnlyCoolTim — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:30:31 -0800

So it looks like Salon's redirect specifically targets at least metafilter.com as a referrer rather than just blanket targeting anything that's not salon.com, though it's still a dick move either way. How cute. For your conveniences, so you don't deal with annoying things like copying and pasting the URL or reading a multipage article, I have set up a link you may click on to see the clean version.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:47:19 -0800

Or we could just not link to salon.com. It's not like we really need 100 salon articles a year. Or maybe I'm confusing them with slate. I can never tell the difference. They all look alike to me.

By: Flunkie

Flunkie — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:47:51 -0800

Is Congress gearing up to hold a new American Truth Commission?

They sure better be.

By: hortense

hortense — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:57:40 -0800

As glasnost and perestroika led to the liquidation of the Soviet empire, will Obama be our Mr. Gorbachev?

By: notsnot

notsnot — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:00:19 -0800

This congress doesn't have the balls.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:04:44 -0800

When COINTELPRO Comes Calling

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:05:58 -0800

Surely this will be the...

By: HighTechUnderpants

HighTechUnderpants — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:12:24 -0800

Some sort of 'Bush truth commission' is so important. I really believe this administration was corrupt down to it's very foundation, and I think we'd be shocked to learn of all the thing that were done without consent or legal standing. I hope I'm wrong. I hope there is a truth commission, and the findings are the Bush regime was just incompetent, and not evil on top of that. But I doubt it.

By: tinkertown

tinkertown — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:16:45 -0800

I'm sure some of the key figures will be soon be ecstatic to learn of Dubai's excellent investment opportunities and lack of extradition arrangements with the United States.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:16:45 -0800

Well that's very interesting, although not really surprising, it's funny to see PROMIS popping up again, wasn't it a feature of plenty of late 80's and early 90's government malfeasance talk? I admire that some people at Salon are acting like real journalists. If you read histories of the Nixon era and the Pentagon Papers you can see many examples of actual brave and principled work by American journalists, it's jarring in comparison to the nonsense and fluff that goes on today. If I was a billionaire I would hire a team of internet geniuses to work out a way to PUNCH A WEBSITE IN THE DICK VIA TCP/IP. SALON IT'S 2008, NO FUCKING POPUPS DAMMIT.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:21:24 -0800

I'm really torn about this. On one hand, I really really really want to see a metric assload of karma visited upon this administration. On the other hand, I really really really want to see some positive light at the end of this tunnel. And another umpteen years of investigation and recrimination just sounds like a slow swim back through the deep, dark septic tank to me.

By: chugg

chugg — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:21:52 -0800

*waits for actual truth machine.*

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:22:45 -0800

The Congress that just gave the telecom companies illegal-wiretapping immunity is going to spearhead an investigation into ... illegal wiretapping? Excuse me if I don't hold my breath.

By: d-programmers

d-programmers — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:32:12 -0800

If you look into the bucket of truth, you might not like what you see.

By: Pope Guilty

Pope Guilty — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:41:16 -0800

Well that's very interesting, although not really surprising, it's funny to see PROMIS popping up again, wasn't it a feature of plenty of late 80's and early 90's government malfeasance talk? It was a feature of many conspiracy theories, especially after an investigative reporter who was investigating the theft of PROMIS was found having committed an extremely unlikely suicide and his files turned up missing.

By: scalefree

scalefree — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:41:38 -0800

I think the key to making it happen will be extending the scope of it well past Bush's term so it tars both parties thickly enough that the inevitable cries of partisanship & revenge for Clinton can be easily discredited. I think tracing the history of PROMIS & Main Core would be an excellent place to start, which would reach back to Reagan. From there they could follow the legacy of the First Earth Battalion from Star Gate ("as you know, I can travel through time") to Guantanamo. And then round it out with a tour of the Office of Special Plans, Truth From These Podia & other tales of domestically targeted Information Operations. Bush was clearly the worst of the lot of recent Presidents, but he didn't start from scratch. Let's haul it all out into the light, I say.

By: yoink

yoink — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:52:01 -0800

I think the way forward here is probably something like the South African Truth and Reconciliation process. That is, give everybody immunity from prosecution in return for testimony. That way it removes a lot of the aura of score-settling (no, it's not about trying to put Bush and Rove in jail, much as they probably richly deserve it), and it also would vastly increase the amount of information uncovered. There'd be a kind of magnifying effect; as each person testifies more and more would come to feel that their safest bet was to testify as well so as to earn immunity. I know a lot of people would rather sacrifice clearing the record for the joy of seeing Rove and Bush et al. do time, but A) the satisfaction of seeing someone "brought to justice" wears of pretty quickly when you hit year 15 of the endless courtroom back-and-forth and B) it's far more important that Congress starts asserting some control over the Executive on these matters than that any individuals "get what's coming to them."

By: quin

quin — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:15:21 -0800

give everybody immunity from prosecution in return for testimony. I'm all for this as long as you only get immunity if you testify. There is no way that Bush would risk his Legacy by publicly admitting that he had done wrong. So we can just let everyone around him do it for him and then send his ass to the Hague (or pick your own war-crimes tribunal).

By: lupus_yonderboy

lupus_yonderboy — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:16:08 -0800

And another umpteen years of investigation and recrimination just sounds like a slow swim back through the deep, dark septic tank to me. So you think our elected officials should be allowed to loot the Treasury, start wars based on lies that kill hundreds of thousands, torture people to death, etc. etc., and simply get away with it because the idea of trying them for their numberless crimes is simply too, too depressing? How do you expect to avoid this happening again, if you make it clear that there are huge possible gains and zero possible downside?

By: stenseng

stenseng — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:17:39 -0800

"and then send his ass to the Hague (or pick your own war-crimes tribunal). It wouldn't break my heart any to let him spend his golden years as Gitmo's last detainee...

By: hortense

hortense — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:30:41 -0800

He may plan on spending his golden years at the ranch in Paraguay,(no extradition treaty) like granddad's pal Fritz Thyssen

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:37:35 -0800

For future notice, you can use anonym.to to get past the salon redirect, like so.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:21 -0800

Daily Show: Bush's All-Star Team of Liars and Deceivers

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:01:36 -0800

Ya don't need congress. The Prez can pardon. 'my fellow americans. There are those who claim the nation is rotten to the core. Having just been on the campaign trail, I don't believe that for a moment. But in the interest of determining what has happened and so that we can prevent whatever in the future, we need to know who did what to whom. so here's the deal. 14 days. Fill out this form admitting what you have done to violate fed/state/local laws and with whom you've done it. And for those crimes, you will get a pardon from the office of the president. If you don't fill out a form, and you are found guilty after due process of law, you will be punished to the max. extent allowed. To help make sure nothing is buried, all the forms filled in will be on-line, part of the trend in open records.' There ya go - a nice pile of paperwork, my own pardon for running red lights, and a nation-wide prisoners dilemma. Plus mocking of various people for positions they held. And a whole buncha people soiling their britches when The Prez gets assassinated about, oh, day 13. Or when the web site accepting the form goes down on day 13.

By: Relay

Relay — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:56:20 -0800

Is Congress gearing up to hold a new American Truth Commission? God I hope not ... All these things seem to accomplish is letting the guilty and culpable play like they are making amends for their crimes and misdeeds. Ultimately, it's like a committee-led version of Gerry Ford pardoning Nixon so the nation can "move on"; the criminals still get to run free, they still get to equivocate and pass the blame onto others and when they can make a grab for power again later, they'll make a play for it (like two of Nixon's staunchest supporters just before he was driven from office, Cheney & Rumsfeld laid the blame at the foot of the media, "subversive elements on college campuses", etc., and got their act more polished for the next time around). What America needs to do is atone for its sins, not simply admit to having sinned. Until it does that, it will never move forward, it will never progress. Sure, a truth commission or some other fact finding is a necessary first step, but ultimately the guilty must be held to account. To paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson, 'Dammit, if you want this to be a nation of laws, then God damn it, start apply those laws to everyone, starting with the criminals at the top.'

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:09:50 -0800

Metafilter probably has the dubious honor of being the most widely-read left-wing crackpot conspiracy blog, evar: It's called coincidence, you hippie freaks! Sorry, just feeling a bit presidential. Or maybe it's just gas.

By: Space Kitty

Space Kitty — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:44:32 -0800

Eh. Call me when Bush & Cheney are serving life in Guantanamo. Then I'll believe it. (And never stop rejoicing, but that's another thread entirely) /bitter, bitter cynicism

By: markkraft

markkraft — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:27:45 -0800

From the Salon story: "While reporting on domestic surveillance under Bush, Salon obtained a detailed memo proposing such an inquiry. . . The memo was written by a former senior member of the original Church Committee..." That means either Gary Hart or Walter Mondale... and, well, let's just face it, it's Gary Hart.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:33:25 -0800

Don't need to jail the perps. Simply take all their money and wealth. Put it back into the system from which they stole it.

By: Mayor West

Mayor West — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:30:46 -0800

If you're having trouble with Salon blocking access to articles linked from MeFi: 1. type "about:config" in the URL bar in FireFox 2. scroll down the row with the first column "network.http.referrerHeader" 3. right-click, choose "Modify" 4. set value to zero 5. presto! Salon (and indeed everyplace else on the Interwebs) doesn't know where you're coming from anymore Also, we should definitely do something to taint this administration's legacy... what if we were to name some sort of unpleasant public works project in California after him? That'll show him!

By: garlic

garlic — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:17:28 -0800

The GW Bush Memorial border fence?

By: Orb

Orb — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:35:18 -0800

garlic: I think the George W. Bush Sewage Plant has a much better ring to it.

By: Relay

Relay — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:53:21 -0800

"Simply take all their money and wealth. Put it back into the system from which they stole it." You know, I've always wondered if the RICO statues could be applied to things like this? Could you, say, file a RICO prosecution of Halliburton or KBR over their failure to deliver (as promised under a contract) good/services in Iraq, and then, working in concert with Congress, earmark all monies recovered from the suit to go to VA hospitals? I'd like to see conservatives try to oppose that bill.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:07:15 -0800

Slate's interactive guide: Who in the Bush administration broke the law, and who could be prosecuted?

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:40:06 -0800

Interview with the author of the Salon article.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:18:06 -0800

It was a feature of many conspiracy theories, especially after an investigative reporter who was investigating the theft of PROMIS was found having committed an extremely unlikely suicide and his files turned up missing. There's more on Danny Casolaro and what he was investigating in this article: Stalking the Octopus: For 20 years Kenn Thomas of Steamshovel Press has been tracking the oily tentacles of world conspiracy — and shaking readers out of their reality tunnels

By: scalefree

scalefree — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:37:14 -0800

PROMIS is the emblem of the dawn of the age of transparency. It's a scandal leftover & unresolved from the 1980s, come back to haunt us with interest because we didn't have the political will to deal with the problem when it first reared its ugly head. Everybody knows the basic plotline but all this time we've been unwilling to pay the price of admitting the truth. And so the problem of PROMIS lay festering in the shadows of the global intelligence community, the final secret tainting everyone it touches. I really do see it as the realization of the mythical "Electronic Pearl Harbor" that's become the empty cant of the INFOSEC community. Much like the breaking of Germany's Enigma cypher in World War II, the value of the intelligence product harvested from PROMIS makes it our most treasured secret whose existence can never be revealed. But the lines of influence & power that connect both the trojaned & untrojaned copies of PROMIS (which ones are which? who can tell the difference? who holds the keys?) make the secret of its existence ever more unsustainable even as its continued use becomes more & more inherently corrupting as the lies needed to hide it from our sight grow ever larger & more evil until the final rite of blasphemy is spoken and our dirtiest secrets, PROMIS & Main Core, are mated to each other & spawn an offspring that heralds the end of democracy, the end of a free & open society. Absolute power married to total lack of accountability breeds a bastard child capable of unspeakable evil. This is so much bigger than Bush. We really have to drive a stake through this thing while we still can.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 15:54:23 -0800

The Vast and Dangerous Transfer of American Spying to Mercenary Companies

By: hortense

hortense — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:02:10 -0800

Prelude To Terror

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:44:19 -0800

Would Barack Obama prosecute the Bush administration for torture? Obama's brain trust wants to form a commission on torture and call Bush officials as witnesses.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:52:08 -0800

Lawrence Lessig on the coming "i-Patriot Act"

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:53:09 -0800

The Why-Haven't-You Impeached-the-President Tour