Video Vigilante
August 3, 2008 9:51 AM Subscribe
I am Jimmy Justice and your days running around this city like a cowboy are over! [video | 2:45]. "He calls himself 'Jimmy Justice,' a self-styled 'cop-arazzi,' armed only with a video camera as he prowls the streets of New York looking for law enforcement officers who are breaking the law. His targets are illegally parked city government vehicles -- particularly cars of traffic cops blocking bus stops, sitting in 'no parking' zones or double-parked. Cop cars blocking fire hydrants make him particularly incensed....He posts his best videos on YouTube and sends regular e-mail to the union representing the city's traffic enforcement agents, pointing out the most egregious parking offenses. And he has gotten results, he said, with some parking enforcers being fined because of his videos. "*
"Sometimes it gets ugly out there. In the two years since he began making his videos, Jimmy said, he has been threatened, punched and spit on, and has had cameras smashed to the ground [video | 0:46]. He said he does not disclose his real name because he fears retaliation by someone whom he has made an unwilling YouTube star. And Jimmy admits that he occasionally crosses the line, sometimes verbally berating traffic enforcers."
MSNBC interview with Jimmy Justice [video | 05:32].
ABC News interview with Jimmy Justice. [video | 03:59].
WNBC News segment on Jimmy Justice [video | 02:22].
"Sometimes it gets ugly out there. In the two years since he began making his videos, Jimmy said, he has been threatened, punched and spit on, and has had cameras smashed to the ground [video | 0:46]. He said he does not disclose his real name because he fears retaliation by someone whom he has made an unwilling YouTube star. And Jimmy admits that he occasionally crosses the line, sometimes verbally berating traffic enforcers."
MSNBC interview with Jimmy Justice [video | 05:32].
ABC News interview with Jimmy Justice. [video | 03:59].
WNBC News segment on Jimmy Justice [video | 02:22].
Yes, someone should stop city bureaucrats from violating the law. But I find this guy truly obnoxious, a white guy who feels it's perfectly to scream in the faces of mostly minority women.
And I will never defend Robert Novak or his work, but some moron with a camera was following him around, jawing in his face about Novak having hit someone with his car, asking stupid and leading questions. Turns out, Novak has a brain tumor. Sometimes people should try manners, really. What's with this need to track down people and be rude?
posted by etaoin at 10:00 AM on August 3, 2008
And I will never defend Robert Novak or his work, but some moron with a camera was following him around, jawing in his face about Novak having hit someone with his car, asking stupid and leading questions. Turns out, Novak has a brain tumor. Sometimes people should try manners, really. What's with this need to track down people and be rude?
posted by etaoin at 10:00 AM on August 3, 2008
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a terrible affliction to have.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:02 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:02 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Jimmy Justice
King of the Street
pointing out the obvious
walk the alternate beat
they look the other way
when their brothers play
not by the rules
they take us for fools
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2008
King of the Street
pointing out the obvious
walk the alternate beat
they look the other way
when their brothers play
not by the rules
they take us for fools
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2008
This is pretty silly stuff. Quansar's comment should be moved from the dungeon to this post.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by Dumsnill at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2008
i once watched a cop toss plastic trash out of his car window on a chicago street as he and his partner were driving slowly along. slowly enough that i could pick up the trash and toss it back into his window, asking, "isn't there some sort of a fine for littering?" the guy looked at me like i was a martian, so i laughed like a banshee and went to breakfast.
posted by RedEmma at 10:09 AM on August 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by RedEmma at 10:09 AM on August 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
But I find this guy truly obnoxious, a white guy who feels it's perfectly to scream in the faces of mostly minority women.
I think you mean "some obnoxious guy yelling in people's faces"*. You seem to have accidentally included a whole lot of pointless labels in there otherwise. If yelling in someone's face is obnoxious (which it is) then neither party's colour, race, sex nor religion are relevant.
None of the above makes the behaviour any more or less obnoxious, so the inclusion of the observations are pointless
*And if that is not what you mean, then it should be.
posted by Brockles at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2008 [18 favorites]
I think you mean "some obnoxious guy yelling in people's faces"*. You seem to have accidentally included a whole lot of pointless labels in there otherwise. If yelling in someone's face is obnoxious (which it is) then neither party's colour, race, sex nor religion are relevant.
None of the above makes the behaviour any more or less obnoxious, so the inclusion of the observations are pointless
*And if that is not what you mean, then it should be.
posted by Brockles at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2008 [18 favorites]
"What's with this need to track down people and be rude?"
It makes that sweet, sweet YouTube footage.
posted by drstein at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008
It makes that sweet, sweet YouTube footage.
posted by drstein at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008
Rude or not, getting in people's faces gets the job done. Otherwise this would be all cyclists would need.
posted by anthill at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by anthill at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008
(Derail) Wait, so Novak's brain tumor excuses his actions? Or maybe he hit the bicyclist because the tumor was pressing on the visual center of his brain, causing a large blind spot in the center of his vision and preventing him from seeing the cyclist? Or maybe it's bad karma for Novak, based on his previous similar actions? I get confused sometimes.
posted by fixedgear at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by fixedgear at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it gets ugly out there. In the two years since he began making his videos, Jimmy said, he has been threatened, punched and spit on, and has had cameras smashed to the ground.
'Cause you're acting like a twit ya twit. The result wouldn't be any different if he was berating and loudly questioning street vendors, litterers, spitters, graffiti "artists", jay walkers or bill posters. In fact it would probably be worse, the cops of NY seem to be showing amazing restraint.
posted by Mitheral at 10:15 AM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
'Cause you're acting like a twit ya twit. The result wouldn't be any different if he was berating and loudly questioning street vendors, litterers, spitters, graffiti "artists", jay walkers or bill posters. In fact it would probably be worse, the cops of NY seem to be showing amazing restraint.
posted by Mitheral at 10:15 AM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Turns out, Novak has a brain tumor. Sometimes people should try manners, really. What's with this need to track down people and be rude?
Was that public knowledge at the time?
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2008
Was that public knowledge at the time?
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2008
'Cause you're acting like a twit ya twit. The result wouldn't be any different if he was berating and loudly questioning street vendors, litterers, spitters, graffiti "artists", jay walkers or bill posters. In fact it would probably be worse, the cops of NY seem to be showing amazing restraint.
Wow. I just....wow.
MeFi sure loves itself some fascism.
posted by DU at 10:20 AM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
Wow. I just....wow.
MeFi sure loves itself some fascism.
posted by DU at 10:20 AM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
I think you mean "some obnoxious guy yelling in people's faces"*. You seem to have accidentally included a whole lot of pointless labels in there otherwise. If yelling in someone's face is obnoxious (which it is) then neither party's colour, race, sex nor religion are relevant.
Well, no. If this person is singling police officers out for observation on the basis of their gender or race (and I certainly am not going to endure his entire oeuvre in order to try to make a judgment on that) then that is extra obnoxious, and totally relevant.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:20 AM on August 3, 2008
Well, no. If this person is singling police officers out for observation on the basis of their gender or race (and I certainly am not going to endure his entire oeuvre in order to try to make a judgment on that) then that is extra obnoxious, and totally relevant.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:20 AM on August 3, 2008
I simultaneously love those videos, and feel sorry for the low-level bureaucrats who are having to deal with a weirdo-with-a-camera while trying to get on with their day.
I think what I'm saying is that I like the idea of videotaping the police, but I wish it were being done by someone less obnoxious, and who had a bit more of a sense of proportion.
posted by Forktine at 10:21 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think what I'm saying is that I like the idea of videotaping the police, but I wish it were being done by someone less obnoxious, and who had a bit more of a sense of proportion.
posted by Forktine at 10:21 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Was that (Noak's brain tumor) public knowledge at the time?
It came out immediately after, maybe the next day or two days later.
posted by fixedgear at 10:22 AM on August 3, 2008
It came out immediately after, maybe the next day or two days later.
posted by fixedgear at 10:22 AM on August 3, 2008
I remember the day I moved into Manhattan for the very first time. In all my years of living around the city I had never gotten a ticket on the island, but I had an eerie feeling that once I officially resided there, it wouldn't take long (even though I don't own a car - only rent sometimes).
Boy was I right.
I had rented a moving van and packed up the first load of stuff with my friend, and we drove in and came up 8th ave. We get to my block (on which there happens to be a bus stop), and there's a dump-truck taking up the 2 meters in front of the bus stop, and a car in the last meter on the block beyond that. Turns out the restaurant next to my front door is renovating so guys are coming out and loading the dump-truck with trash barrels full of smashed drywall. I park the van as close to the back of the dump-truck as I can without pissing these guys off, but the ass end of the van is about halfway into the bus-stop still. I put the flashers on and we start unloading.
We start carrying boxes in, but I'm keeping a careful eye out for one of those evil traffic cops. Now my friend, she's all of 120 lbs and a real sweetheart, and she's struggling with the door when I notice someone grab it to hold it open for her. Its a 6' tall scraggly wino in a leather jacket, and he follows her in. I put my box back in the van, shut the back door, and run to follow them in and make sure this guy gets out of our building.
Sure enough, he's drunk, and he's trying to follow her into the apartment. I grab him and push him into the stairwell on the side of the building, lock her in the apartment, and run back out to the street while calling the cops.
I'm not in the building more than 60 seconds in total, but sure enough, there's my friendly neighborhood traffic enforcer, starting my ticket. Pen hasn't touched the pad yet, and I start shouting at him.
"No! No - you don't understand - I'm having an emergency here! I'm on the phone with 911. I had to leave the car there! A guy is trying to break into my apartment, I went in to make sure my friend is safe and came right back out - he's still in the building, you have to help me. If you're going to write me the ticket, fine, but help me first, PLEASE!"
"Is anyone injured?"
"No but someone might be very soon, he's still in the building."
"I'm sorry, I can't help you sir, you have to call 911 and inform them."
He starts writing the ticket.
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T HELP ME? YOU'RE A COP!"
"I'm responsible for traffic enforcement only."
I'm standing there in disbelief.
"I have 911 ON THE PHONE HERE, I can't move the van and leave my friend alone in there with this guy!"
He keeps writing the ticket.
I start telling the 911 operator what's going on and request the police stop by. He finishes writing the ticket, but not before I realize that he's double-parked across the street, blocking the bike lane and there's no one in his car.
He puts the ticket on my windshield.
"Wait a minute. You're not allowed to park illegally in order to ticket me, unless there's another officer waiting in the car. You're parked illegally. What's your vehicle number, I'm reporting you."
He doesn't say a word, but he hustles back and drives off quickly (HINT, Officer James, you left your information on the ticket, dumbass).
The cops never came, the super ended up hustling the wino out a few minutes later.
Welcome to NYC. That'll be $115 please.
(HINT #2, Officer James - the ticket clearly states that if I'm there, you have to request my identification, and then serve me the ticket, or write "ID refused" prior to putting it on the car. You did neither, dumbass.)
posted by allkindsoftime at 10:22 AM on August 3, 2008 [17 favorites]
Boy was I right.
I had rented a moving van and packed up the first load of stuff with my friend, and we drove in and came up 8th ave. We get to my block (on which there happens to be a bus stop), and there's a dump-truck taking up the 2 meters in front of the bus stop, and a car in the last meter on the block beyond that. Turns out the restaurant next to my front door is renovating so guys are coming out and loading the dump-truck with trash barrels full of smashed drywall. I park the van as close to the back of the dump-truck as I can without pissing these guys off, but the ass end of the van is about halfway into the bus-stop still. I put the flashers on and we start unloading.
We start carrying boxes in, but I'm keeping a careful eye out for one of those evil traffic cops. Now my friend, she's all of 120 lbs and a real sweetheart, and she's struggling with the door when I notice someone grab it to hold it open for her. Its a 6' tall scraggly wino in a leather jacket, and he follows her in. I put my box back in the van, shut the back door, and run to follow them in and make sure this guy gets out of our building.
Sure enough, he's drunk, and he's trying to follow her into the apartment. I grab him and push him into the stairwell on the side of the building, lock her in the apartment, and run back out to the street while calling the cops.
I'm not in the building more than 60 seconds in total, but sure enough, there's my friendly neighborhood traffic enforcer, starting my ticket. Pen hasn't touched the pad yet, and I start shouting at him.
"No! No - you don't understand - I'm having an emergency here! I'm on the phone with 911. I had to leave the car there! A guy is trying to break into my apartment, I went in to make sure my friend is safe and came right back out - he's still in the building, you have to help me. If you're going to write me the ticket, fine, but help me first, PLEASE!"
"Is anyone injured?"
"No but someone might be very soon, he's still in the building."
"I'm sorry, I can't help you sir, you have to call 911 and inform them."
He starts writing the ticket.
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T HELP ME? YOU'RE A COP!"
"I'm responsible for traffic enforcement only."
I'm standing there in disbelief.
"I have 911 ON THE PHONE HERE, I can't move the van and leave my friend alone in there with this guy!"
He keeps writing the ticket.
I start telling the 911 operator what's going on and request the police stop by. He finishes writing the ticket, but not before I realize that he's double-parked across the street, blocking the bike lane and there's no one in his car.
He puts the ticket on my windshield.
"Wait a minute. You're not allowed to park illegally in order to ticket me, unless there's another officer waiting in the car. You're parked illegally. What's your vehicle number, I'm reporting you."
He doesn't say a word, but he hustles back and drives off quickly (HINT, Officer James, you left your information on the ticket, dumbass).
The cops never came, the super ended up hustling the wino out a few minutes later.
Welcome to NYC. That'll be $115 please.
(HINT #2, Officer James - the ticket clearly states that if I'm there, you have to request my identification, and then serve me the ticket, or write "ID refused" prior to putting it on the car. You did neither, dumbass.)
posted by allkindsoftime at 10:22 AM on August 3, 2008 [17 favorites]
Living in Seattle I learned this important slogan several years ago:
THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!
THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!
(Repeat as necessary)
posted by Tube at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008
THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!
THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!
(Repeat as necessary)
posted by Tube at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008
It came out immediately after, maybe the next day or two days later.
According to Wikipedia (so take it as you will), he hit the person on July 23 and was admitted to the hospital and diagnosed on July 27.
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008
According to Wikipedia (so take it as you will), he hit the person on July 23 and was admitted to the hospital and diagnosed on July 27.
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008
I honked at a parking enforcement van once in Los Angeles for double-parking and blocking traffic while issuing tickets. They hopped back in their car and proceeded to taunt me, coming to complete stops in the middle of the block and then speeding away when I tried to pass them. At the end of the street, they sat at the stop sign and laughed.
I, for one, welcome our new civically-minded paparazzi overlords.
Godspeed, Jimmy Justice.
posted by phaedon at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I, for one, welcome our new civically-minded paparazzi overlords.
Godspeed, Jimmy Justice.
posted by phaedon at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Was that public knowledge at the time?
No. Novak hit the pedestrian on Wednesday (July 23). The following Sunday (July 28) he felt ill. "The diagnosis was sudden. Novak became ill Sunday during a family outing near Cape Cod, Mass. A family member called 911, and he was brought by ambulance to Brigham and Women's Hospital, where the diagnosis was made."*
posted by ericb at 10:27 AM on August 3, 2008
No. Novak hit the pedestrian on Wednesday (July 23). The following Sunday (July 28) he felt ill. "The diagnosis was sudden. Novak became ill Sunday during a family outing near Cape Cod, Mass. A family member called 911, and he was brought by ambulance to Brigham and Women's Hospital, where the diagnosis was made."*
posted by ericb at 10:27 AM on August 3, 2008
...but some moron with a camera was following him around, jawing in his face about Novak having hit someone with his car
Actually, after hitting the pedestrian Novak left the scene. A cyclist caught up with him to tell him to stop. A journalist from Politico and a WJLA-TV crew and reporter happened to be in the area and interviewed Novak as he exited the police car where he received a citation.
posted by ericb at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2008
Actually, after hitting the pedestrian Novak left the scene. A cyclist caught up with him to tell him to stop. A journalist from Politico and a WJLA-TV crew and reporter happened to be in the area and interviewed Novak as he exited the police car where he received a citation.
posted by ericb at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2008
Turns out, Novak has a brain tumor.
They way I heard it, an unlucky brain tumour got a Robert Novak.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:32 AM on August 3, 2008 [18 favorites]
They way I heard it, an unlucky brain tumour got a Robert Novak.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:32 AM on August 3, 2008 [18 favorites]
MeFi sure loves itself some fascism.
Wait, I'm confused. Who are the fascists here? The illegally parking cops, or the self-appointed vigilantes?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:33 AM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Wait, I'm confused. Who are the fascists here? The illegally parking cops, or the self-appointed vigilantes?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:33 AM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
The subjects of his videos are hypocritical public officials who are entrusted with enforcing public SAFETY laws caught in the act of violating those same safety laws. Someone needs to be calling them on it. I think he would be more effective if he were less dramatic, angry, and confrontational. It's not about you, Jimmy Justice! Just the facts sir! I applaud policing the police.
posted by Daddy-O at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Daddy-O at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
You seem to have accidentally included a whole lot of pointless labels in there otherwise. If yelling in someone's face is obnoxious (which it is) then neither party's colour, race, sex nor religion are relevant.
Well, I think I've watched all his videos, and the only one where he goes after a white cop seems to have been by accident.
And last I checked, NYPD had a fair amount of caucasian officers. So what, they don't commit traffic/parking violations?
posted by pinothefrog at 10:38 AM on August 3, 2008
Well, I think I've watched all his videos, and the only one where he goes after a white cop seems to have been by accident.
And last I checked, NYPD had a fair amount of caucasian officers. So what, they don't commit traffic/parking violations?
posted by pinothefrog at 10:38 AM on August 3, 2008
This video seems to confirm that he targets women. Watch him videotape the "no parking" sign, and notice that there are two police cars parked in the no parking zone. He silently watches a male officer buy a newspaper and return to his illegally parked car. However, when a female officer emerges from a drugstore to return to her illegally parked car, Jimmy Justice springs into action, and obnoxiously confronts her.
He only deals with the male officer when the female officer turns to the male officer for assistance, and still, Jimmy Justice doesn't even mention that the male officer is illegally parked.
I looked at several of these videos, and it's pretty weak material. I am no fan of police lawbreaking, but if his sole evidence of police malfeasance is disregarding traffic and parking laws, he's not accomplishing much.
A decent argument could be made that police officers shouldn't have to pay the same heed to traffic and parking laws that civilians do.
posted by jayder at 10:47 AM on August 3, 2008
He only deals with the male officer when the female officer turns to the male officer for assistance, and still, Jimmy Justice doesn't even mention that the male officer is illegally parked.
I looked at several of these videos, and it's pretty weak material. I am no fan of police lawbreaking, but if his sole evidence of police malfeasance is disregarding traffic and parking laws, he's not accomplishing much.
A decent argument could be made that police officers shouldn't have to pay the same heed to traffic and parking laws that civilians do.
posted by jayder at 10:47 AM on August 3, 2008
A decent argument could be made that police officers shouldn't have to pay the same heed to traffic and parking laws that civilians do, provided that they have an urgent need to get somewhere.
This is surely what you meant.
posted by oaf at 10:49 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is surely what you meant.
posted by oaf at 10:49 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
First, I think Jimmy Justice feels safer yelling at minority women. I think he's a bully and feels more able to yell at them than at white guys. Maybe all the traffic agents are minority but I doubt it and if so, why are so many that he pursues of color?
Second, on Novak, the camera guy didn't come directly from the scene of the accident but caught up with him a day or more later. It may or may not have been known what was wrong with him then but why would camera guy jump in and assume he knows the facts?
Aiming for hits on youtube clip seems to explain everything.
posted by etaoin at 10:51 AM on August 3, 2008
Second, on Novak, the camera guy didn't come directly from the scene of the accident but caught up with him a day or more later. It may or may not have been known what was wrong with him then but why would camera guy jump in and assume he knows the facts?
Aiming for hits on youtube clip seems to explain everything.
posted by etaoin at 10:51 AM on August 3, 2008
Why is it that, despite all my liberal leanings, I can't help wishing the obnoxious morons asking for a police officer's "badge number" get stomped by said officer? Seriously, it seems like this "badge number" demand is always made by cocky little twits who really do have it coming to them. The "cops have to give you their badge number" meme seems to be the kind of wisdom that is passed around among eighteen-year-old losers when they are smoking weed and listening to Pink Floyd.
Note to the wise: never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
posted by jayder at 10:55 AM on August 3, 2008
Note to the wise: never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
posted by jayder at 10:55 AM on August 3, 2008
"NYPD'S PARKING-PERK BLITZ BAGS 1,000 COPS". NYPD Internal Affairs has ticketed 1,053 cops and towed 137 since Mayor Bloomberg reacted to reports of cops parking illegally by yanking many of their parking placards.
posted by nicwolff at 10:56 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by nicwolff at 10:56 AM on August 3, 2008
Way to go, egotistical-blowhard-with-some-kind-of-chip-on-his-shoulder-about-getting-parking-tickets guy. Keep fighting the good fight against police brutality.
posted by cmonkey at 11:00 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by cmonkey at 11:00 AM on August 3, 2008
Maybe all the traffic agents are minority but I doubt it
I think it's a safe bet that not all the traffic agents are minorities, but, growing up in the Bronx, I don't recall *ever* seeing one that wasn't. Many years ago, the PVB (Parking Violations Bureau) agents (they weren't called officers, then) wore brown uniforms, and got the derisive nickname "Brownies" as a result - this, of course, was perceived as a racial insult, even though the nickname predated by a couple of decades the demographic shift in the staffing of the PVB. They changed the uniforms about 15 years ago, when the PVB was incorporated into the NYPD.
I'll also add this: back in 1995, a few months after I moved from NYC to Georgia, I received five "notice of non-payment" letters in the mail, resulting from unpaid parking tickets. The only problem was, I (and my car) weren't in the state at the time - On the dates the tickets were issued, I had already moved. They had the description & license plate of the car right, but the car was in Georgia with me on those dates - a fact that was next to impossible to prove. I could very easily prove that I was in Georgia, but there was no practical way to prove that my car was with me. Also, to tilt at a windmill and fight the tickets would have required that I show up personally in parking court in NY - something that would have been difficult considering that I had just started a job nine hundred miles away. Ultimately, I paid the city their shakedown money to keep from having an arrest warrant taken out.
Keeping my past experience with the parking "cops" in NY in mind, I'll say this: Jimmy Justice may be a bully, and may be a douche, but he's being a bully and douche to people who are themselves bullies and douches, and to boot, part of an organization so filthily corrupt it defies description (at least by First World standards). We need more Jimmy Justices in this country - I officially have a man-crush on this guy.
posted by deadmessenger at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
I think it's a safe bet that not all the traffic agents are minorities, but, growing up in the Bronx, I don't recall *ever* seeing one that wasn't. Many years ago, the PVB (Parking Violations Bureau) agents (they weren't called officers, then) wore brown uniforms, and got the derisive nickname "Brownies" as a result - this, of course, was perceived as a racial insult, even though the nickname predated by a couple of decades the demographic shift in the staffing of the PVB. They changed the uniforms about 15 years ago, when the PVB was incorporated into the NYPD.
I'll also add this: back in 1995, a few months after I moved from NYC to Georgia, I received five "notice of non-payment" letters in the mail, resulting from unpaid parking tickets. The only problem was, I (and my car) weren't in the state at the time - On the dates the tickets were issued, I had already moved. They had the description & license plate of the car right, but the car was in Georgia with me on those dates - a fact that was next to impossible to prove. I could very easily prove that I was in Georgia, but there was no practical way to prove that my car was with me. Also, to tilt at a windmill and fight the tickets would have required that I show up personally in parking court in NY - something that would have been difficult considering that I had just started a job nine hundred miles away. Ultimately, I paid the city their shakedown money to keep from having an arrest warrant taken out.
Keeping my past experience with the parking "cops" in NY in mind, I'll say this: Jimmy Justice may be a bully, and may be a douche, but he's being a bully and douche to people who are themselves bullies and douches, and to boot, part of an organization so filthily corrupt it defies description (at least by First World standards). We need more Jimmy Justices in this country - I officially have a man-crush on this guy.
posted by deadmessenger at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
Wow, that video linked by pinothefrog really shows what an ass this guy is. Watch it to the very end, the guy is absolutely nuts, repeating "you broke the law" over and over again and mimicking a baby crying!
And it is quite funny that he mistakenly thinks it is a black woman who was driving that car, and she very professionally informs him that it is another officer.
posted by jayder at 11:14 AM on August 3, 2008
And it is quite funny that he mistakenly thinks it is a black woman who was driving that car, and she very professionally informs him that it is another officer.
posted by jayder at 11:14 AM on August 3, 2008
but he's being a bully and douche to people who are themselves bullies and douches,
You don't know the officers in the videos, do you? If not, how are you sure that those particular people he targets are bullies and douches ... rather than ordinary people just trying to do their jobs?
posted by jayder at 11:16 AM on August 3, 2008
You don't know the officers in the videos, do you? If not, how are you sure that those particular people he targets are bullies and douches ... rather than ordinary people just trying to do their jobs?
posted by jayder at 11:16 AM on August 3, 2008
Wow, what a fucking loser.
posted by puke & cry at 11:18 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by puke & cry at 11:18 AM on August 3, 2008
Note to the wise: never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
So trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions merits a brutal beating. Got it.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 11:19 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
So trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions merits a brutal beating. Got it.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 11:19 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
etaoin writes "But I find this guy truly obnoxious, a white guy who feels it's perfectly to scream in the faces of mostly minority women. "
So you're saying you don't see the the police uniform, you see the uniformed person's race and gender? And "the guy", rather than seeing a citizen trying (if ham-handedly) to make sure the law treats everyone equally, you see his race and gender?
I was under the impression that the whole idea of the Civil Rights and Women's Equality Movements was that, instead of judging people by their skin color and gender, we should afford them an equal chance to hold any job they are qualified for, and equally, hold them to the same standards. By all means blacks and women should be able to do any job whites and men can do, but it's a form of bigotry to then claim they should be given a pass if they then perform poorly at it.
posted by orthogonality at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
So you're saying you don't see the the police uniform, you see the uniformed person's race and gender? And "the guy", rather than seeing a citizen trying (if ham-handedly) to make sure the law treats everyone equally, you see his race and gender?
I was under the impression that the whole idea of the Civil Rights and Women's Equality Movements was that, instead of judging people by their skin color and gender, we should afford them an equal chance to hold any job they are qualified for, and equally, hold them to the same standards. By all means blacks and women should be able to do any job whites and men can do, but it's a form of bigotry to then claim they should be given a pass if they then perform poorly at it.
posted by orthogonality at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
So trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions merits a brutal beating. Got it.
Come on, I was being facetious.
Somewhat facetious.
posted by jayder at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2008
Come on, I was being facetious.
Somewhat facetious.
posted by jayder at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2008
"Note to the wise: never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
posted by jayder at 12:55 PM on August 3 [+] [!]
Hey man nice shot, assholes like you are the reason this guy is doing what he is doing-exposing the hipocracy of the law enforcement. If asking a cop for his badge number gets me a beat down, I hope someone is there with a camera so i can collect my brutality lawsuit check.
Does "liberal" mean "thinking cops are above the law.
Now I'm sure I'm not a librul!
posted by winks007 at 11:35 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by jayder at 12:55 PM on August 3 [+] [!]
Hey man nice shot, assholes like you are the reason this guy is doing what he is doing-exposing the hipocracy of the law enforcement. If asking a cop for his badge number gets me a beat down, I hope someone is there with a camera so i can collect my brutality lawsuit check.
Does "liberal" mean "thinking cops are above the law.
Now I'm sure I'm not a librul!
posted by winks007 at 11:35 AM on August 3, 2008
My problem with this approach to "holding public servants accountable" is that this solution is not "scalable." Can you imagine what it would be like if every time a police officer or parking officer pulled up at a street, a dozen people with too much time on their hands rushed out of their houses with videocamera rolling, coming up to the officers, asking the officers to account for what they are doing, making snap judgments about the wisdom or justification of the officers' actions, etc? This would obstruct the officers from doing their jobs.
As far as I know, Jimmy Justice has no background in law enforcement, nor do many of the people in this thread who are nodding approvingly at his videos. So how are we really to judge whether the officers were justified in doing what they are shown doing in the videos? For example, the officer shown coming out to an illegally parked car from a drugstore. How do we know that the officer wasn't just finishing up an emergency call at that drugstore? Should the officer have to explain to every bozo on the street what she was doing in the drugstore? If the public wants to know, they can go to the police department and request an incident report.
But what it comes down to is that those of us who happen to run across police officers going about their business are not in a position to supervise those officers, call them to account, or pass judgment on what they are doing, because we don't know. It's just as ridiculous to assume we can pass judgment on their actions, as it would be for me to pop into your workplace one day and start inspecting your work.
Moreover, the premise of his videos seems flawed. Given the dearth of parking in NYC, surely an officer responding to a call is not required to drive around and look for a "legal" parking space. I'd hate to be a citizen waiting for an officer to come to my aid, and when the officer arrives ridiculously late, the explanation is, "I couldn't find a legal parking space, so I just circled the block for half an hour until I found one."
posted by jayder at 11:39 AM on August 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
As far as I know, Jimmy Justice has no background in law enforcement, nor do many of the people in this thread who are nodding approvingly at his videos. So how are we really to judge whether the officers were justified in doing what they are shown doing in the videos? For example, the officer shown coming out to an illegally parked car from a drugstore. How do we know that the officer wasn't just finishing up an emergency call at that drugstore? Should the officer have to explain to every bozo on the street what she was doing in the drugstore? If the public wants to know, they can go to the police department and request an incident report.
But what it comes down to is that those of us who happen to run across police officers going about their business are not in a position to supervise those officers, call them to account, or pass judgment on what they are doing, because we don't know. It's just as ridiculous to assume we can pass judgment on their actions, as it would be for me to pop into your workplace one day and start inspecting your work.
Moreover, the premise of his videos seems flawed. Given the dearth of parking in NYC, surely an officer responding to a call is not required to drive around and look for a "legal" parking space. I'd hate to be a citizen waiting for an officer to come to my aid, and when the officer arrives ridiculously late, the explanation is, "I couldn't find a legal parking space, so I just circled the block for half an hour until I found one."
posted by jayder at 11:39 AM on August 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
I second Jayder's post. A police officer responding to an emergency call shouldn't have to deal with nonsense like this because s/he had to double park in order to arrive on the scene as quickly as possible.
posted by tesseract420 at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by tesseract420 at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2008
Jayder, how is that different from me parking a car and dozens of cops looking to give me a ticket to fill city coffers so they can hire more cops and so on?
It is up to the people to keep law enforcement in check, and to keep our leaders (Law enforcement, elected official or otherwise) accountable.
If you live where there is a lot of corruption, you would have a better understanding of what "actual" transparency means.
Just check out www.nola.com.
There is a very valid reason for having watchdog groups like the Metropolitan Crime Commission keep tabs on police who constantly act above the law. Go Rapheal Goyeneche!!!
www.nola.com
In the last month we've had:
A northshore Mayor who crashed a tollbooth gate while intoxicated.
He was forced, after viewing the tape to, give up his cite owned car, attend AA.
The 2 Causeway cops were fired for not arresting him.
A female cops was in ahurry to pick her kids up from a communit child care center, got impatien with the car in fromt of her in the pick-up line and verbally abused the occupant of the car in front of her and then brandished a weapon in front of the day care.
Abused called 911 and a cop came out and did nothing. Result, abuser TERMINATEd and the cop that came to the call was relieved of his duties as well.
I shudder to think what it would be like if cops could beat anyone for anything, including asking a question.
posted by winks007 at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2008
It is up to the people to keep law enforcement in check, and to keep our leaders (Law enforcement, elected official or otherwise) accountable.
If you live where there is a lot of corruption, you would have a better understanding of what "actual" transparency means.
Just check out www.nola.com.
There is a very valid reason for having watchdog groups like the Metropolitan Crime Commission keep tabs on police who constantly act above the law. Go Rapheal Goyeneche!!!
www.nola.com
In the last month we've had:
A northshore Mayor who crashed a tollbooth gate while intoxicated.
He was forced, after viewing the tape to, give up his cite owned car, attend AA.
The 2 Causeway cops were fired for not arresting him.
A female cops was in ahurry to pick her kids up from a communit child care center, got impatien with the car in fromt of her in the pick-up line and verbally abused the occupant of the car in front of her and then brandished a weapon in front of the day care.
Abused called 911 and a cop came out and did nothing. Result, abuser TERMINATEd and the cop that came to the call was relieved of his duties as well.
I shudder to think what it would be like if cops could beat anyone for anything, including asking a question.
posted by winks007 at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2008
Fat Fingers be dammned! I was out late last night. Sorry for the poor spelling and grammar.
posted by winks007 at 12:07 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by winks007 at 12:07 PM on August 3, 2008
It is up to the people to keep law enforcement in check, and to keep our leaders (Law enforcement, elected official or otherwise) accountable.
Totally, but not through vigilantism. Vigilantism is undemocratic because it bypasses collective mechanisms of accountability and gives the power to whoever's the most hotheaded and angry and willing to break the normal rules of civility.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
Totally, but not through vigilantism. Vigilantism is undemocratic because it bypasses collective mechanisms of accountability and gives the power to whoever's the most hotheaded and angry and willing to break the normal rules of civility.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
I agree with game warden's comment. And in reality, the people who are running around with video cameras are probably the least equipped, in terms of judgment and intelligence, to be overseeing what police officers do, so these videos serve no purpose except to satisfy one's curiosity about how police respond to video-cam wielding nutjobs. The kinds of people who spend time shoving videocameras in police officers' faces are pretty much a self-selecting group of idiots and douchebags, aren't they? Do you know of anyone with good sense who does such a thing?
People with the qualities needed to do a good job at watching over the police, would, almost by definition, not stoop to such silliness.
posted by jayder at 12:29 PM on August 3, 2008
People with the qualities needed to do a good job at watching over the police, would, almost by definition, not stoop to such silliness.
posted by jayder at 12:29 PM on August 3, 2008
Railing against traffic enforcement strikes me as wasted effort.
Yes, it's not fair. Yes, you're going to get tickets from cops who speed, who are jerks, who double park. You're going to get a ticket the day after someone steals your car stereo. You're going to get a ticket when you're going the same speed as everyone else. It's part of the cost of living in a society.
If we're talking about police officers abusing their authority to persecute or abuse people, that's a big deal and a worthwhile battle. Getting upset because a city employee parked on the sidewalk... maybe not such a big deal.
I could be persuaded to buy into the argument that strict enforcement of minor traffic laws would be a good thing (see nicwolff's link), but I don't know that getting in people's faces with a video camera is the best way to go about it. Honestly, if a stranger ran up to me on the street and was getting in my face with a camera, I might smack it out of his hand as well.
Documenting these violations and making them public is fine. Getting in their faces and yelling at them is just being an ass. More than that, it's counterproductive. I don't think it's unreasonable to watch some of these and root for the illegally parked cop.
Not that it's my place to tell him what to do, but I would rather see this guy documenting corruption that actually mattered. This guy comes across like someone acting out a perpetual tantrum over a parking ticket he got a couple of years ago.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's not fair. Yes, you're going to get tickets from cops who speed, who are jerks, who double park. You're going to get a ticket the day after someone steals your car stereo. You're going to get a ticket when you're going the same speed as everyone else. It's part of the cost of living in a society.
If we're talking about police officers abusing their authority to persecute or abuse people, that's a big deal and a worthwhile battle. Getting upset because a city employee parked on the sidewalk... maybe not such a big deal.
I could be persuaded to buy into the argument that strict enforcement of minor traffic laws would be a good thing (see nicwolff's link), but I don't know that getting in people's faces with a video camera is the best way to go about it. Honestly, if a stranger ran up to me on the street and was getting in my face with a camera, I might smack it out of his hand as well.
Documenting these violations and making them public is fine. Getting in their faces and yelling at them is just being an ass. More than that, it's counterproductive. I don't think it's unreasonable to watch some of these and root for the illegally parked cop.
Not that it's my place to tell him what to do, but I would rather see this guy documenting corruption that actually mattered. This guy comes across like someone acting out a perpetual tantrum over a parking ticket he got a couple of years ago.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
DU writes "MeFi sure loves itself some fascism."
How did you get that out of my comment? Are you saying JJ isn't acting like a twit? Or is it that his acting like a twit is justified because his target is law enforcement?
posted by Mitheral at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2008
How did you get that out of my comment? Are you saying JJ isn't acting like a twit? Or is it that his acting like a twit is justified because his target is law enforcement?
posted by Mitheral at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2008
One more thing ... I promise this will be my last comment in this thread (for a while).
It really bothers me that this guy is causing big public scenes, over matters that he is not competent to judge. The video linked by pinothefrog shows his tendency to create these big scenes. Screaming at the officers in public, repeatedly yelling at them while standing in the street next to their cars, etc., can create risks of various kinds ... drivers could get distracted and get into a car accident, people could mistakenly assume that a crazy person is about to assault the officer and get drawn into a confrontation trying to "help out," and so forth. This is pretty much the definition of disorderly conduct and interfering with an officer's official duties. I think the officers are showing admirable restraint in not citing him for one of those violations, because he really seems to be overstepping the bounds of legal conduct.
Whatever you may think of how officers go about their jobs, they deserve to be treated with civility and respect until they start treating you, unjustly, without civility and respect. This bozo going up to officers, loudly confronting them and shoving a videocamera in their faces, is not behaving decently. It seems like it should be obvious that if one wants to make a point about officers behaving badly, one shouldn't be behaving badly oneself. Whatever preconceptions we may have about police corruption, there is no reason to assume that every officer is a corrupt bully, and it's really terrible to treat these officers as if they are not people worthy of basic respect.
posted by jayder at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
It really bothers me that this guy is causing big public scenes, over matters that he is not competent to judge. The video linked by pinothefrog shows his tendency to create these big scenes. Screaming at the officers in public, repeatedly yelling at them while standing in the street next to their cars, etc., can create risks of various kinds ... drivers could get distracted and get into a car accident, people could mistakenly assume that a crazy person is about to assault the officer and get drawn into a confrontation trying to "help out," and so forth. This is pretty much the definition of disorderly conduct and interfering with an officer's official duties. I think the officers are showing admirable restraint in not citing him for one of those violations, because he really seems to be overstepping the bounds of legal conduct.
Whatever you may think of how officers go about their jobs, they deserve to be treated with civility and respect until they start treating you, unjustly, without civility and respect. This bozo going up to officers, loudly confronting them and shoving a videocamera in their faces, is not behaving decently. It seems like it should be obvious that if one wants to make a point about officers behaving badly, one shouldn't be behaving badly oneself. Whatever preconceptions we may have about police corruption, there is no reason to assume that every officer is a corrupt bully, and it's really terrible to treat these officers as if they are not people worthy of basic respect.
posted by jayder at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
So trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions merits a brutal beating.
Trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions is just fine and dandy. It's his lack of civility that merits the brutal beating.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:06 PM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Trying to hold public servants accountable for their actions is just fine and dandy. It's his lack of civility that merits the brutal beating.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:06 PM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Being rude does not merit a brutal beating.
posted by demiurge at 1:12 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by demiurge at 1:12 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
When the police state comes and MeFites are bitching about it, I'm linking directly to this thread.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
When the police state comes and MeFites are bitching about it, I'm linking directly to this thread.
Please, anything but that.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
Please, anything but that.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
While I disagree with police officers violating traffic enforcement, people who complain about them parking in 'no parking' zones should really try to do that job in an urban environment like New York City. If cops tried to park legally 100% of the time they'd probably spend most of their time looking for parking.
This guy's just a vengeful prick whose lack of cojones have filtered down to the point where he's picking on people who, legally and professionally, can't afford to punch him in the neck and smash his camera.
posted by jimmythefish at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2008
This guy's just a vengeful prick whose lack of cojones have filtered down to the point where he's picking on people who, legally and professionally, can't afford to punch him in the neck and smash his camera.
posted by jimmythefish at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2008
How much you wanna bet he listens to Alex Jones and plans to move to New Hampshire with the Free State project?
posted by symbioid at 1:59 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by symbioid at 1:59 PM on August 3, 2008
never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
Jimmy Justice quotes Brandeis in one of his videos, but let me provide you with a fuller quote:
"[Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious.] If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
If you actually think that a citizen deserves a crack or two with a nightstick for asking a policeman for their badge number, it follows that they in turn deserve to dole out a crack or two to policeman whenever some tool with a badge approaches and asks them to spread 'em.
When employees of our government, delegated with the responsibility of protecting the law, break the same laws in the course of serving their own private interests, the system (and worse, its moral justification for existing) fails, and invites people like Jimmy Justice to be the gleeful shitbags they are to the police without any recourse whatsoever. In other words, it invites anarchy. Cry foul all you want. All your counter-arguments (circumstantial claims of prejudice, lack of decorum on Jimmy's part) serve to do is overshadow the root of the problem - namely, that a policeman that breaks the law cannot in the same breath serve it.
When's the last time you saw a cop squirrel away from a reporter, or hide in his/her squad car out of shame?
posted by phaedon at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Jimmy Justice quotes Brandeis in one of his videos, but let me provide you with a fuller quote:
"[Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious.] If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
If you actually think that a citizen deserves a crack or two with a nightstick for asking a policeman for their badge number, it follows that they in turn deserve to dole out a crack or two to policeman whenever some tool with a badge approaches and asks them to spread 'em.
When employees of our government, delegated with the responsibility of protecting the law, break the same laws in the course of serving their own private interests, the system (and worse, its moral justification for existing) fails, and invites people like Jimmy Justice to be the gleeful shitbags they are to the police without any recourse whatsoever. In other words, it invites anarchy. Cry foul all you want. All your counter-arguments (circumstantial claims of prejudice, lack of decorum on Jimmy's part) serve to do is overshadow the root of the problem - namely, that a policeman that breaks the law cannot in the same breath serve it.
When's the last time you saw a cop squirrel away from a reporter, or hide in his/her squad car out of shame?
posted by phaedon at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
"If cops tried to park legally 100% of the time they'd probably spend most of their time looking for parking."
That would definitely be a shame, yes indeedy.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2008
That would definitely be a shame, yes indeedy.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2008
Speaking as an Angeleno who watches cops drive like assholes all the time for no discernible reason,* I can appreciate that there's a real need for a project like this. Fortunately, someone was out there willing to take the responsibility. Unfortunately, the guy who took up the responsibility is a total jackass.
If he simply documented the infractions and included relevant information (like the car number, time, date, etc), I think this whole project would speak volumes, and be an excellent resource that we could point out to those in a position to actually do something about it. Something like this has the potential to be an excellent tool, as long as it's got a minimum of personality attached to it.
But Jimmy Justice makes the whole thing about Jimmy Justice. It's not the violations that are important -- it's that Jimmy Justice is out there every day confronting these scofflaws and making the world a better place for workaday folks like you and me. Thank you, Jimmy Justice, for calling our attention to the tireless efforts of Jimmy Justice!
There's a reason Superman never hired a PR agent.
*Yeah, I know cops might often have perfectly good reasons for making illegal u-turns or speeding through residential areas, and that I'm not always (or even often) in a position to judge, or even discern, what those reasons are. But I'm willing to bet that more than half the time, cops do illegal traffic shit for the very same reasons you or I do.
posted by hifiparasol at 2:46 PM on August 3, 2008
If he simply documented the infractions and included relevant information (like the car number, time, date, etc), I think this whole project would speak volumes, and be an excellent resource that we could point out to those in a position to actually do something about it. Something like this has the potential to be an excellent tool, as long as it's got a minimum of personality attached to it.
But Jimmy Justice makes the whole thing about Jimmy Justice. It's not the violations that are important -- it's that Jimmy Justice is out there every day confronting these scofflaws and making the world a better place for workaday folks like you and me. Thank you, Jimmy Justice, for calling our attention to the tireless efforts of Jimmy Justice!
There's a reason Superman never hired a PR agent.
*Yeah, I know cops might often have perfectly good reasons for making illegal u-turns or speeding through residential areas, and that I'm not always (or even often) in a position to judge, or even discern, what those reasons are. But I'm willing to bet that more than half the time, cops do illegal traffic shit for the very same reasons you or I do.
posted by hifiparasol at 2:46 PM on August 3, 2008
I was under the impression that the whole idea of the Civil Rights and Women's Equality Movements was that, instead of judging people by their skin color and gender, we should afford them an equal chance to hold any job they are qualified for, and equally, hold them to the same standards. By all means blacks and women should be able to do any job whites and men can do, but it's a form of bigotry to then claim they should be given a pass if they then perform poorly at it.
posted by orthogonality at 2:25 PM on August 3 [+] [!]
I am responding to how THIS guy deals with the people in the uniform, who pretty clearly all are female and minority. I'm not judging them; I'm saying this guy seems to go after them. It would hardly be the first time that someone dealt with an employee based on what they looked like rather than what position they held. And no one, absolutely no one should be given a pass for sloppy performance. I am talking only about how this clown deals with them.
posted by etaoin at 3:03 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by orthogonality at 2:25 PM on August 3 [+] [!]
I am responding to how THIS guy deals with the people in the uniform, who pretty clearly all are female and minority. I'm not judging them; I'm saying this guy seems to go after them. It would hardly be the first time that someone dealt with an employee based on what they looked like rather than what position they held. And no one, absolutely no one should be given a pass for sloppy performance. I am talking only about how this clown deals with them.
posted by etaoin at 3:03 PM on August 3, 2008
re orthogonality's comment referenced above:
I feel like etaoin's original comment was pretty obviously directed at Jimmy Justice in particular. At the risk of implying something ugly about the way you regard women and minorities, I'd point out that your comment sounds like a Bitter Old White Guy sort of thing.
posted by hifiparasol at 3:16 PM on August 3, 2008
I feel like etaoin's original comment was pretty obviously directed at Jimmy Justice in particular. At the risk of implying something ugly about the way you regard women and minorities, I'd point out that your comment sounds like a Bitter Old White Guy sort of thing.
posted by hifiparasol at 3:16 PM on August 3, 2008
"If cops tried to park legally 100% of the time they'd probably spend most of their time looking for parking."
That would definitely be a shame, yes indeedy.
Is this sarcasm, or just dumb? Yes, it would not be good if an officer couldn't respond to a case of, I don't know, domestic violence because he couldn't find a parking spot. Yes, indeedy it was a shame that woman was beaten to death before the police showed up. But parking was really bad that day!
Are many of the cases of illegal parking like the situation above? I doubt it. But I've already put more thought into the nuances of the hypothetical parked cop's situation than Jimmy ever has.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:33 PM on August 3, 2008
That would definitely be a shame, yes indeedy.
Is this sarcasm, or just dumb? Yes, it would not be good if an officer couldn't respond to a case of, I don't know, domestic violence because he couldn't find a parking spot. Yes, indeedy it was a shame that woman was beaten to death before the police showed up. But parking was really bad that day!
Are many of the cases of illegal parking like the situation above? I doubt it. But I've already put more thought into the nuances of the hypothetical parked cop's situation than Jimmy ever has.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:33 PM on August 3, 2008
When the police state comes and MeFites are bitching about it, I'm linking directly to this thread.
Thank Jimmy Justice that day will never come, because we have Jimmy Justice doing his Jimmy Justice duty Jimmy Justicing double parked cops who had no idea they were about to be Jimmy Justiced by Jimmy Justice on the Jimmy Justicing day of the Jimmy Justice year.
posted by cmonkey at 3:48 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Thank Jimmy Justice that day will never come, because we have Jimmy Justice doing his Jimmy Justice duty Jimmy Justicing double parked cops who had no idea they were about to be Jimmy Justiced by Jimmy Justice on the Jimmy Justicing day of the Jimmy Justice year.
posted by cmonkey at 3:48 PM on August 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
You're a capitalist lackey running dog, cmonkey. You won't be mocking Pope Guilty and Jimmy Justice when the police state is issuing *you* with an unwarranted parking ticket!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:57 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:57 PM on August 3, 2008
Note to the wise: never, ever ask a cop for the badge number because doing so will instantaneously number you among the nitwits who richly deserve a crack or two with a nightstick.
"What's your name and unit?"
[taps and covers badge with nightstick] "It's right here. You got a beef? What is it?"
posted by bwg at 4:03 PM on August 3, 2008
"What's your name and unit?"
[taps and covers badge with nightstick] "It's right here. You got a beef? What is it?"
posted by bwg at 4:03 PM on August 3, 2008
When employees of our government, delegated with the responsibility of protecting the law, break the same laws in the course of serving their own private interests, the system (and worse, its moral justification for existing) fails, and invites people like Jimmy Justice to be the gleeful shitbags they are to the police without any recourse whatsoever. In other words, it invites anarchy. Cry foul all you want. All your counter-arguments (circumstantial claims of prejudice, lack of decorum on Jimmy's part) serve to do is overshadow the root of the problem - namely, that a policeman that breaks the law cannot in the same breath serve it.
That's all very high-minded, but keep in mind what "Jimmy Justice" is finding: cops breaking parking laws, in one of the densest cities in the U.S. He's found no corruption, no scofflaw attitudes on the part of cops, as far as I could tell from watching his videos. He's an idiot with a videocamera, and using the videocamera to prove nothing but what a fucking idiot he is.
Of course cops don't look for legal parking in cities where legal parking hard to find. I guess it hasn't occurred to you, or Jimmy Justice, that no parking zones exist at least in part so that emergency and law enforcement vehicles will have a place to park.
Jimmy Justice's exercise actually serves a very good (if unintentional) public service: showing how "video camera vigilantism" is a terrible idea, because we can't trust the cameraman to know what's important and what's not.
posted by jayder at 4:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
That's all very high-minded, but keep in mind what "Jimmy Justice" is finding: cops breaking parking laws, in one of the densest cities in the U.S. He's found no corruption, no scofflaw attitudes on the part of cops, as far as I could tell from watching his videos. He's an idiot with a videocamera, and using the videocamera to prove nothing but what a fucking idiot he is.
Of course cops don't look for legal parking in cities where legal parking hard to find. I guess it hasn't occurred to you, or Jimmy Justice, that no parking zones exist at least in part so that emergency and law enforcement vehicles will have a place to park.
Jimmy Justice's exercise actually serves a very good (if unintentional) public service: showing how "video camera vigilantism" is a terrible idea, because we can't trust the cameraman to know what's important and what's not.
posted by jayder at 4:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
I don't get it. Here in San Francisco, the meter carts constantly block the bike lane. You know why? Because the bike lane runs along the parked cars. Where the hell else is a meter cart going to stop to write a ticket? How are they supposed to mark the tires of cars in time-limited spots without using the bike lane?
I don't own a car and I bike. You know what I do when a meter cart is in the bike lane? I move over into the car lane(s) as necessary to pass it. GENIUS!
a policeman that breaks the law cannot in the same breath serve it.
I don't understand this one either. What if a policeman needs to break a law to enforce the law? For example, a policeman makes an illegal u-turn in order to pull over a suspected rapist/murderer. He/she just broke the law, but did he/she serve it?
Traffic "cops" are not cops, btw. They are little more than bureaucrats, as allkindsoftime's story illustrates well.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:44 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't own a car and I bike. You know what I do when a meter cart is in the bike lane? I move over into the car lane(s) as necessary to pass it. GENIUS!
a policeman that breaks the law cannot in the same breath serve it.
I don't understand this one either. What if a policeman needs to break a law to enforce the law? For example, a policeman makes an illegal u-turn in order to pull over a suspected rapist/murderer. He/she just broke the law, but did he/she serve it?
Traffic "cops" are not cops, btw. They are little more than bureaucrats, as allkindsoftime's story illustrates well.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:44 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
My problem with this approach to "holding public servants accountable" is that this solution is not "scalable."
How isn't it scalable? It costs the police department nothing to have this guy who is doing the job that they should be doing. It would cost them nothing if there were a hundred of these guys. It's completely scalable!
He shouldn't be yelling at people, but videoing cops breaking the law (something I've seen cops do in New York endlessly, both small and large infractions) is not just your right in a free country, it's almost your obligation as a concerned citizen.
Can you imagine what it would be like if every time a police officer or parking officer pulled up at a street, a dozen people with too much time on their hands rushed out of their houses with videocamera rolling, coming up to the officers, asking the officers to account for what they are doing, making snap judgments about the wisdom or justification of the officers' actions, etc?
Why wouldn't that work? We'd get a pretty good idea of what the average police interaction looked like. Your average cop would be aware that he was constantly responsible for his actions and moderate his behaviour accordingly. It would cost the police zero. People would get sick of it pretty soon - we'd only see the bad ones.
That sounds great to me. Would that people cared about justice as much as that. Why are people so scared of an engaged, active, informed populace?
Don't you ever forget that the police are public employees - that means, yours and mine!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
How isn't it scalable? It costs the police department nothing to have this guy who is doing the job that they should be doing. It would cost them nothing if there were a hundred of these guys. It's completely scalable!
He shouldn't be yelling at people, but videoing cops breaking the law (something I've seen cops do in New York endlessly, both small and large infractions) is not just your right in a free country, it's almost your obligation as a concerned citizen.
Can you imagine what it would be like if every time a police officer or parking officer pulled up at a street, a dozen people with too much time on their hands rushed out of their houses with videocamera rolling, coming up to the officers, asking the officers to account for what they are doing, making snap judgments about the wisdom or justification of the officers' actions, etc?
Why wouldn't that work? We'd get a pretty good idea of what the average police interaction looked like. Your average cop would be aware that he was constantly responsible for his actions and moderate his behaviour accordingly. It would cost the police zero. People would get sick of it pretty soon - we'd only see the bad ones.
That sounds great to me. Would that people cared about justice as much as that. Why are people so scared of an engaged, active, informed populace?
Don't you ever forget that the police are public employees - that means, yours and mine!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:18 PM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't get it. Here in San Francisco, the meter carts constantly block the bike lane.
That's fine, that's for work. In New York cops, traffic or not, will park anywhere they like when they're doing non-work things.
Try living near a police station. Cops won't just park their personal cars in your driveway, they'll park on your lawn. Try to ask them to move their illegally parked car because you, God forbid, need to drive yours - they'll ignore you until you raise your voice and then they'll threaten to arrest you. And Parking Violations won't do a thing about it.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:22 PM on August 3, 2008
That's fine, that's for work. In New York cops, traffic or not, will park anywhere they like when they're doing non-work things.
Try living near a police station. Cops won't just park their personal cars in your driveway, they'll park on your lawn. Try to ask them to move their illegally parked car because you, God forbid, need to drive yours - they'll ignore you until you raise your voice and then they'll threaten to arrest you. And Parking Violations won't do a thing about it.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:22 PM on August 3, 2008
Of course cops don't look for legal parking in cities where legal parking hard to find. I guess it hasn't occurred to you, or Jimmy Justice, that no parking zones exist at least in part so that emergency and law enforcement vehicles will have a place to park.
Did you see this video?
It's like you're not even giving me a good argument to respond to. Restricted parking zones do not exist for cops to pick up their dry cleaning, hit up ATMs, or more efficiently hit up titty bars, do they? They don't get the big bright lights on the roof so they can stop traffic and make U-turns to go grab a cheeseburger, do they?
Clearly there needs to be an emergency or an act of law enforcement that justifies parking in what would otherwise be considered a prohibited area. Please get outta here with that New York parking crunch bullshit.
You wan't instead to tell me that Jimmy Justice's response to the problem doesn't provide you with a "scalable solution." Talk about sounding high-minded. I think secretly you want to be a camcorder vigilante, and you're just upset this guy has the balls to go out and be an asshole like this and get away with it.
posted by phaedon at 6:26 PM on August 3, 2008
Did you see this video?
It's like you're not even giving me a good argument to respond to. Restricted parking zones do not exist for cops to pick up their dry cleaning, hit up ATMs, or more efficiently hit up titty bars, do they? They don't get the big bright lights on the roof so they can stop traffic and make U-turns to go grab a cheeseburger, do they?
Clearly there needs to be an emergency or an act of law enforcement that justifies parking in what would otherwise be considered a prohibited area. Please get outta here with that New York parking crunch bullshit.
You wan't instead to tell me that Jimmy Justice's response to the problem doesn't provide you with a "scalable solution." Talk about sounding high-minded. I think secretly you want to be a camcorder vigilante, and you're just upset this guy has the balls to go out and be an asshole like this and get away with it.
posted by phaedon at 6:26 PM on August 3, 2008
Try living near a police station...
That's kinda funny cuz I live a block away from a police station ... but they have a pretty big parking lot.
I only watched a couple videos with meter officers. I didn't realize that he was following actual cops. That's a little different.
Believe me, I know how some cops can behave. I went on a ride with cops in Louisville was I was in high school. They ran lots of red lights; took stuff from convenience stores without paying, flipped on their sirens for no reason (they may have been showing off for me) ... Power certainly does corrupt, imo. (In San Francisco, however, they only apparently infringe on fajita rights. Honestly, I haven't seen much police misbehavior here in the day-to-day stuff, and I am not pro-law enforcement at all.)
posted by mrgrimm at 7:17 PM on August 3, 2008
That's kinda funny cuz I live a block away from a police station ... but they have a pretty big parking lot.
I only watched a couple videos with meter officers. I didn't realize that he was following actual cops. That's a little different.
Believe me, I know how some cops can behave. I went on a ride with cops in Louisville was I was in high school. They ran lots of red lights; took stuff from convenience stores without paying, flipped on their sirens for no reason (they may have been showing off for me) ... Power certainly does corrupt, imo. (In San Francisco, however, they only apparently infringe on fajita rights. Honestly, I haven't seen much police misbehavior here in the day-to-day stuff, and I am not pro-law enforcement at all.)
posted by mrgrimm at 7:17 PM on August 3, 2008
Okay, phaedon, I watched the video you suggested.
Once again, this demonstrates the problem of "people who know nothing about law enforcement trying to supervise and critique law enforcement officers." I don't know much about law enforcement, either, but I don't think they get a standard one-hour lunch like the rest of us. I think they are expected to grab a bite quickly and be available to respond to calls.
Crazy, police-state-loving fascist that I am, I actually think it's okay for an officer to park "illegally" to go to the ATM to get money so he/she can eat and get back to the work of protecting the public.
If you are actually a cop or ex-cop, please tell me ... I am assuming, however, that you are just Monday morning quarterbacking these officers without any specialized knowledge of law enforcement.
posted by jayder at 9:09 PM on August 3, 2008
Once again, this demonstrates the problem of "people who know nothing about law enforcement trying to supervise and critique law enforcement officers." I don't know much about law enforcement, either, but I don't think they get a standard one-hour lunch like the rest of us. I think they are expected to grab a bite quickly and be available to respond to calls.
Crazy, police-state-loving fascist that I am, I actually think it's okay for an officer to park "illegally" to go to the ATM to get money so he/she can eat and get back to the work of protecting the public.
If you are actually a cop or ex-cop, please tell me ... I am assuming, however, that you are just Monday morning quarterbacking these officers without any specialized knowledge of law enforcement.
posted by jayder at 9:09 PM on August 3, 2008
You wan't instead to tell me that Jimmy Justice's response to the problem doesn't provide you with a "scalable solution." Talk about sounding high-minded.
Perhaps "scalable" is the wrong term, but what I am getting at is that it is dangerous and distracting to have police officers surrounded by camcorder-toting Youtubers while they are trying to do their jobs. One nutjob with a camcorder is perhaps tolerable, but we cannot consider Jimmy Justice's approach to be "the answer" to police malfeasance, because if it became widespread, it would be positively dangerous.
Consider a situation where an officer is on a scene trying to deal with a domestic assault call. The officer is talking to the parties, trying to figure out who the first aggressor was. Based on the statements of the parties, the officer concludes the boyfriend is the first aggressor. A Youtuber sees the commotion on the street, and comes out with video camera running. He sees the officer putting one of the parties in handcuffs. While the officer is cuffing the suspect, the Youtuber concludes that, because he didn't see the boyfriend do anything wrong, he is witnessing an injustice. He follows the officer around: "Excuse me, officer, what did this man do? Why are you arresting this man? Say hello to Youtube, you're about to be famous! I'll be giving this video to Internal Affairs first thing Monday!" The officer is faced with a distraction that complicates the situation and, on top of that, the video vigilante is drawing attention to a situation in a way that could actually impede and endanger the officer.
This is the direction that these video vigilantes are taking us. As I have said earlier, I'm no fan of police brutality and misconduct, but thinking it's courageous or cool for these jackasses to be second-guessing officers is just plain crazy. Damn, I have pretty much convinced myself that the Jimmy Justices of the world actually deserve those cracks with the nightstick I was joking about earlier.
posted by jayder at 9:23 PM on August 3, 2008
Perhaps "scalable" is the wrong term, but what I am getting at is that it is dangerous and distracting to have police officers surrounded by camcorder-toting Youtubers while they are trying to do their jobs. One nutjob with a camcorder is perhaps tolerable, but we cannot consider Jimmy Justice's approach to be "the answer" to police malfeasance, because if it became widespread, it would be positively dangerous.
Consider a situation where an officer is on a scene trying to deal with a domestic assault call. The officer is talking to the parties, trying to figure out who the first aggressor was. Based on the statements of the parties, the officer concludes the boyfriend is the first aggressor. A Youtuber sees the commotion on the street, and comes out with video camera running. He sees the officer putting one of the parties in handcuffs. While the officer is cuffing the suspect, the Youtuber concludes that, because he didn't see the boyfriend do anything wrong, he is witnessing an injustice. He follows the officer around: "Excuse me, officer, what did this man do? Why are you arresting this man? Say hello to Youtube, you're about to be famous! I'll be giving this video to Internal Affairs first thing Monday!" The officer is faced with a distraction that complicates the situation and, on top of that, the video vigilante is drawing attention to a situation in a way that could actually impede and endanger the officer.
This is the direction that these video vigilantes are taking us. As I have said earlier, I'm no fan of police brutality and misconduct, but thinking it's courageous or cool for these jackasses to be second-guessing officers is just plain crazy. Damn, I have pretty much convinced myself that the Jimmy Justices of the world actually deserve those cracks with the nightstick I was joking about earlier.
posted by jayder at 9:23 PM on August 3, 2008
If you are actually a cop or ex-cop, please tell me ... I am assuming, however, that you are just Monday morning quarterbacking these officers without any specialized knowledge of law enforcement.
Specialized insider knowledge is not required to critique public servants. In fact, insiders tend to protect their fellow insiders.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on August 3, 2008
Specialized insider knowledge is not required to critique public servants. In fact, insiders tend to protect their fellow insiders.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on August 3, 2008
I think the opposing argument is that if police aren't allowed to break the law in order to enforce the law, then they are impeded from stopping lawbreakers (who obviously don't care about breaking the law, duh). Speeding when chasing after a fleeing thief for example. To make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs. Any cook'll tell you that. However, if they U-turn illegally just cuz they noticed the donut shop too late to turn legally? How are they protecting our lives by doing that?
The problem is, this is a VERY slippery slope. Who watches the watchers? If this Jimmy Justice dude is going to spend his free time policing police officers, who's policing Jimmy Justice? Will this eventually lead to another organization of men and women whose jobs will be to follow policemen around and make sure they don't break any laws either? And who's gonna follow those guys around.
Also, it's not like we pay the men and women in Blue enough to put their lives on the line for us in the first place. These guys are taking bullets for people. Not every day but they do risk that every day. Even the ones behind a desk are arguably targets for haters. Is it too much to ask to cut them a little slack?
I dunno. I see both sides of this argument and I really don't see an easy answer. I'd rather let police break a few laws now and then if it makes it easier for them to enforce the laws that matter. However, the laws that they find they have to break regularly cuz they get in their way and keep them from doing their job? Those same laws are the ones that get in OUR way too. Some of them need to be reviewed.
I mean, under safe conditions, why can't anyone pull a U-turn in a business district? Sounds like a stupid law to me. Sounds like a law that doesn't really matter.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:26 PM on August 3, 2008
The problem is, this is a VERY slippery slope. Who watches the watchers? If this Jimmy Justice dude is going to spend his free time policing police officers, who's policing Jimmy Justice? Will this eventually lead to another organization of men and women whose jobs will be to follow policemen around and make sure they don't break any laws either? And who's gonna follow those guys around.
Also, it's not like we pay the men and women in Blue enough to put their lives on the line for us in the first place. These guys are taking bullets for people. Not every day but they do risk that every day. Even the ones behind a desk are arguably targets for haters. Is it too much to ask to cut them a little slack?
I dunno. I see both sides of this argument and I really don't see an easy answer. I'd rather let police break a few laws now and then if it makes it easier for them to enforce the laws that matter. However, the laws that they find they have to break regularly cuz they get in their way and keep them from doing their job? Those same laws are the ones that get in OUR way too. Some of them need to be reviewed.
I mean, under safe conditions, why can't anyone pull a U-turn in a business district? Sounds like a stupid law to me. Sounds like a law that doesn't really matter.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:26 PM on August 3, 2008
Cop: It was an emergency ... that truck over there ... blah blah ... .
Jimmy Justice: I thought an emergency is when somebody's life is in danger.
Cop: Yeah, maybe your life is in danger.
Gold. Did he just threaten Jimmy Justice? (Not that JJ would be undeserving of a small threat.)
Also, do police officers receive some sort of training to reply "Thank you, have a nice day" umpteen times when someone acts like a total jerk? Because that comes up several times in the videos.
posted by sour cream at 12:09 AM on August 4, 2008
Jimmy Justice: I thought an emergency is when somebody's life is in danger.
Cop: Yeah, maybe your life is in danger.
Gold. Did he just threaten Jimmy Justice? (Not that JJ would be undeserving of a small threat.)
Also, do police officers receive some sort of training to reply "Thank you, have a nice day" umpteen times when someone acts like a total jerk? Because that comes up several times in the videos.
posted by sour cream at 12:09 AM on August 4, 2008
jayder says, I don't think they get a standard one-hour lunch like the rest of us.
It's a civil job and unionized (strong union, too). I'll bet a boiled bagel and lox that regular breaks and lunch are written into the contract.
posted by zippy at 12:21 AM on August 4, 2008
It's a civil job and unionized (strong union, too). I'll bet a boiled bagel and lox that regular breaks and lunch are written into the contract.
posted by zippy at 12:21 AM on August 4, 2008
It's a civil job and unionized (strong union, too). I'll bet a boiled bagel and lox that regular breaks and lunch are written into the contract.
In the UK force, there's a food break but it's unpaid and interruptible by emergency calls - but I'm not 100% sure if that latter point is written into the contracts or if it's a case of helping out your mates when they're getting wailed on at a big pub brawl.
posted by stelas at 8:12 AM on August 4, 2008
In the UK force, there's a food break but it's unpaid and interruptible by emergency calls - but I'm not 100% sure if that latter point is written into the contracts or if it's a case of helping out your mates when they're getting wailed on at a big pub brawl.
posted by stelas at 8:12 AM on August 4, 2008
While I'm sure it's unpleasant having some berk with a camera demanding why you double parked, I have to say, I'm with Jimmy Justice on this one.
Yes, there are greater crimes than doing a U-turn in the business district, or double parking to have a pee.
But we, the general public are getting screwed twice over: we pay a chunk of public money to police minor offences and are getting tickets left right and centre because the people charged with enforcing those laws don't generally have the intelligence, empathy or mandate to listen to a common sense appeal. If it's good enough for the goose, it's good enough for the gander. I don't care if that means Officer 1 has to drive round the block while Officer 2 gets the donuts. Everyone's got an excuse.
In his own twittish way, Jimmy Justice and his haranguing is making an important point. If policing is going to be zero tolerance, then it absolutely has to be zero tolerance for all. And the people enforcing it have to understand you can't have a two tier justice system with a special class of people who aren't held to account.
Above all, he's showing up the kind of robotic penalisation of the general public so beloved by traffic enforcement officers and the agencies like the TSA for what it is: the enemy of common sense and civility.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:48 AM on August 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yes, there are greater crimes than doing a U-turn in the business district, or double parking to have a pee.
But we, the general public are getting screwed twice over: we pay a chunk of public money to police minor offences and are getting tickets left right and centre because the people charged with enforcing those laws don't generally have the intelligence, empathy or mandate to listen to a common sense appeal. If it's good enough for the goose, it's good enough for the gander. I don't care if that means Officer 1 has to drive round the block while Officer 2 gets the donuts. Everyone's got an excuse.
In his own twittish way, Jimmy Justice and his haranguing is making an important point. If policing is going to be zero tolerance, then it absolutely has to be zero tolerance for all. And the people enforcing it have to understand you can't have a two tier justice system with a special class of people who aren't held to account.
Above all, he's showing up the kind of robotic penalisation of the general public so beloved by traffic enforcement officers and the agencies like the TSA for what it is: the enemy of common sense and civility.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:48 AM on August 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
The best video is when Jimmy Justice goes up to some double parked traffic cop and confronts her. He then pulls her mask off, revealing the face of Old Mister Crenshaw, owner of the Haunted Parking Garage around the block! Zoinks!
I could do without Scrappy Justice, though. That guy sucks.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:54 AM on August 4, 2008
I could do without Scrappy Justice, though. That guy sucks.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:54 AM on August 4, 2008
I used to work a job that put me on the roads at all hours of the night. I watched cops break so many traffic laws that eventually it became a sort of joke with my friends and I:
U-Turn at a controlled intersection, that's three points. (in WI this is illegal)
Speeding in excess of 15mpg over the speed limit without their strobe lights on, that's three points.
Using strobe lights to run a red light and then turn them immediately off again, that's five points...
I actually thought about video taping it and sending it to the local police chief, but I didn't really think it would accomplish much as I was pretty sure it would get swept under the rug. Now I can see that there is potentially a better way: Someone should set up a cop watch type site where people who have video taped law enforcement agents breaking the law can anonymously post their footage along with the date, time, and location it was filmed. I'd bet that eventually something like that would draw attention from local news stations looking to fill slow news cycles.
The key thing would be the anonymous non-confrontation aspect. Jimmy Justice comes across as unlikeable because he is basically verbally attacking these people. A better solution would be just to document the illegal act, make it public, and expect that their superiors would not be pleased to know they got filmed breaking the law.
posted by quin at 1:22 PM on August 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
U-Turn at a controlled intersection, that's three points. (in WI this is illegal)
Speeding in excess of 15mpg over the speed limit without their strobe lights on, that's three points.
Using strobe lights to run a red light and then turn them immediately off again, that's five points...
I actually thought about video taping it and sending it to the local police chief, but I didn't really think it would accomplish much as I was pretty sure it would get swept under the rug. Now I can see that there is potentially a better way: Someone should set up a cop watch type site where people who have video taped law enforcement agents breaking the law can anonymously post their footage along with the date, time, and location it was filmed. I'd bet that eventually something like that would draw attention from local news stations looking to fill slow news cycles.
The key thing would be the anonymous non-confrontation aspect. Jimmy Justice comes across as unlikeable because he is basically verbally attacking these people. A better solution would be just to document the illegal act, make it public, and expect that their superiors would not be pleased to know they got filmed breaking the law.
posted by quin at 1:22 PM on August 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Jayder: posted by jayder Jimmy Justice's exercise actually serves a very good (if unintentional) public service: showing how "video camera vigilantism" is a terrible idea, because we can't trust the cameraman to know what's important and what's not.
Optovox: Officers Patrick Pogan, Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, Theodore Briseno, and Sergeant Stacey Koon all vehemently agree with you.
The Rodney King video was not "video vigilantism," in my opinion. It was filmed from inside a private home. Jimmy Justice's project involves confrontation of police officers/law enforcement, which is where the vigilantism comes in. My problems with Jimmy Justice are that he's uncivil, and in being uncivil he's actually interfering with the officers, and he's too stupid to know what is misconduct and what isn't.
None of those issues are present in the filming of the Rodney King video.
posted by jayder at 3:59 PM on August 4, 2008
Optovox: Officers Patrick Pogan, Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, Theodore Briseno, and Sergeant Stacey Koon all vehemently agree with you.
The Rodney King video was not "video vigilantism," in my opinion. It was filmed from inside a private home. Jimmy Justice's project involves confrontation of police officers/law enforcement, which is where the vigilantism comes in. My problems with Jimmy Justice are that he's uncivil, and in being uncivil he's actually interfering with the officers, and he's too stupid to know what is misconduct and what isn't.
None of those issues are present in the filming of the Rodney King video.
posted by jayder at 3:59 PM on August 4, 2008
Take CCTV (aka The panopticon, aka The Big Brother). One of the arguments that are often advanced to support the whole CCTV scheme is that its mere presence is a deterrent, as by dint of direct experience and televised divulgation of its efficacy criminals "feel" a strong disincentive to commit crimes, at least in areas covered by some camera.
Then why shouldn't the same method be applied to officiers, if it really is working so well?
posted by elpapacito at 4:00 PM on August 4, 2008
Then why shouldn't the same method be applied to officiers, if it really is working so well?
posted by elpapacito at 4:00 PM on August 4, 2008
Everyone who breaks a law has a reason behind it. Whether they're a cop or a civilian citizen. The excuses for one may be construed as more legitimate than another, but they are not. It's not the enforcement of laws that should be reviewed, but the laws themselves.
...Wait. These are cops, right?
This "Jimmy Justice" guy doesn't give them his name but it's not like they can't use some detective work to find out who this guy is, right? Follow him around until he messes up. He's human. He's bound to mess up. That's the problem with all these laws. There's so many of them, everyone is bound to mess up.
If turnabout is fair play, so is turning about the turnabout. Who watches the watchers? The watchees.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:18 PM on August 4, 2008
...Wait. These are cops, right?
This "Jimmy Justice" guy doesn't give them his name but it's not like they can't use some detective work to find out who this guy is, right? Follow him around until he messes up. He's human. He's bound to mess up. That's the problem with all these laws. There's so many of them, everyone is bound to mess up.
If turnabout is fair play, so is turning about the turnabout. Who watches the watchers? The watchees.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:18 PM on August 4, 2008
This "Jimmy Justice" guy doesn't give them his name but it's not like they can't use some detective work to find out who this guy is, right?
I'm guessing that's why he's targetting women. The cops that this guy is targetting are the people who issue parking tickets, work the sanitation beat, making sure restaurants aren't leaving their garbage out at the wrong time, etc. They're cops in name only. They don't do the kind of high status work we generally associate with cops, and my guess is that they don't have access to that blue wall of silence and protection.
I'd like to see him try this stuff on the cops who work as detectives or as general beat cops. I'm pretty sure that the reason he doesn't target those guys is that they'd turn his life into a shitstain, faster than winking.
Just like the cops themselves, Jimmy Justice likes to enforce the law differentially, and uses his discretion to cover his own ass.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:43 AM on August 5, 2008
I'm guessing that's why he's targetting women. The cops that this guy is targetting are the people who issue parking tickets, work the sanitation beat, making sure restaurants aren't leaving their garbage out at the wrong time, etc. They're cops in name only. They don't do the kind of high status work we generally associate with cops, and my guess is that they don't have access to that blue wall of silence and protection.
I'd like to see him try this stuff on the cops who work as detectives or as general beat cops. I'm pretty sure that the reason he doesn't target those guys is that they'd turn his life into a shitstain, faster than winking.
Just like the cops themselves, Jimmy Justice likes to enforce the law differentially, and uses his discretion to cover his own ass.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:43 AM on August 5, 2008
PeterMcDermott: "I'd like to see him try this stuff on the cops who work as detectives or as general beat cops."
This could also admittedly be a kind of elitism that Jimmy Justice is catering to like-minded indivdiuals. Here in Texas it's not so much about traffic cops (except occasionally in downtown metro areas like Dallas or Austin) so much as it is 'Rent-A-Cops.' People tend to really give them a hard time, when they're only doing their jobs. There's a whole 'holier than thou' attitude when a rentacop calls somebody on breaking rules laid out by the owners of the property. Especially stuff like parking all day in 3 hour parking slots. Crap like that. Some people can get downright nasty, but the security guy's just earning a paycheck same as the rest of us.
Jimmy Justice may sincerely believe that 'real cops' like detectives and beat cops deserve the right to break the rules now and then, but he draws the line with cops that enforce traffic laws because he believes they're not really cops. I think that approach to his behavior may be his Achilles' heel: it could lead to his undoing.
You're right though. Jimmy Justice is smart enough not to rattle the tiger cage. He's just going after smaller prey. What he doesn't know is some of those 'not so real cops' are inevitably gonna be friends with some of those 'real cops.'
So I'm thinking J.J.'s days are numbered.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:53 AM on August 5, 2008
This could also admittedly be a kind of elitism that Jimmy Justice is catering to like-minded indivdiuals. Here in Texas it's not so much about traffic cops (except occasionally in downtown metro areas like Dallas or Austin) so much as it is 'Rent-A-Cops.' People tend to really give them a hard time, when they're only doing their jobs. There's a whole 'holier than thou' attitude when a rentacop calls somebody on breaking rules laid out by the owners of the property. Especially stuff like parking all day in 3 hour parking slots. Crap like that. Some people can get downright nasty, but the security guy's just earning a paycheck same as the rest of us.
Jimmy Justice may sincerely believe that 'real cops' like detectives and beat cops deserve the right to break the rules now and then, but he draws the line with cops that enforce traffic laws because he believes they're not really cops. I think that approach to his behavior may be his Achilles' heel: it could lead to his undoing.
You're right though. Jimmy Justice is smart enough not to rattle the tiger cage. He's just going after smaller prey. What he doesn't know is some of those 'not so real cops' are inevitably gonna be friends with some of those 'real cops.'
So I'm thinking J.J.'s days are numbered.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:53 AM on August 5, 2008
I honestly don't really care if he is targeting women. I'm not sure I'd care if he was targeting one particular cop out of a personal vendetta. While that would make him a douchebag, and someone I'd probably be less likely to buy a beer for, it doesn't make him wrong.
If someone is acting under the color of authority, that takes precedence over the color of their skin, their sex, or anything else. If they're abusing that authority, I want to see them punished for it. It's unfortunate if minorities are punished more frequently for abusing authority than whites are, but I'm not about to stop someone from going after cops abusing their authority because they're only going after some cops. It's a start, at least.
The problem this creates, if he's only going after minorities who are abusing their power as parking-ticket-giver-outers, is that is essentially lets white male parking-ticket-giver-outers free reign to abuse. The problem isn't the people he's going after, it's the people he's letting slip, because he's afraid to go after them, too.
So rather than going after this guy for only videotaping the minorities, I'd like to inquire why he's so afraid to do this to whites, and what can be done to make sure they're toeing the line as well.
Saying that he shouldn't be doing this, because he's only going after some cops, throws the baby out with the bathwater, IMO. Regardless of whether they're minorities or women or something else, they're still cops, and that means they need to not break the laws themselves while acting as the enforcers.
tl;dr: I don't care what your skin color is; if you're wearing a uniform or a badge, it's open season if you're abusing your power.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:48 AM on August 5, 2008
If someone is acting under the color of authority, that takes precedence over the color of their skin, their sex, or anything else. If they're abusing that authority, I want to see them punished for it. It's unfortunate if minorities are punished more frequently for abusing authority than whites are, but I'm not about to stop someone from going after cops abusing their authority because they're only going after some cops. It's a start, at least.
The problem this creates, if he's only going after minorities who are abusing their power as parking-ticket-giver-outers, is that is essentially lets white male parking-ticket-giver-outers free reign to abuse. The problem isn't the people he's going after, it's the people he's letting slip, because he's afraid to go after them, too.
So rather than going after this guy for only videotaping the minorities, I'd like to inquire why he's so afraid to do this to whites, and what can be done to make sure they're toeing the line as well.
Saying that he shouldn't be doing this, because he's only going after some cops, throws the baby out with the bathwater, IMO. Regardless of whether they're minorities or women or something else, they're still cops, and that means they need to not break the laws themselves while acting as the enforcers.
tl;dr: I don't care what your skin color is; if you're wearing a uniform or a badge, it's open season if you're abusing your power.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:48 AM on August 5, 2008
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posted by RavinDave at 9:57 AM on August 3, 2008