Comments on: Every. Single. MST3K. Episode.

Every. Single. MST3K. Episode.

ObscureReferenceMan — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:38:21 -0800

All MST3K episodes available in .avi format. That is all. I need to lie down.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:42:20 -0800

Presumably not for long now.

By: taursir

taursir — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:43:54 -0800

How long until they get a C&D letter?

By: xmutex

xmutex — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:44:18 -0800

You just ruined this, ObscureReferenceMan.

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:48:31 -0800

It's Gavin McCloud mania!* *Not Gavin McCloud but an incredible simulation! - Tom Servo

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:49:11 -0800

Oh, and keep circulating the ~~tapes~~ AVIs.

By: Optamystic

Optamystic — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:49:30 -0800

Eponysterical?

By: knowles

knowles — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:49:37 -0800

For future reference, memail links of this nature to me before you post them so I can download eps before they're all pulled. Keep circulating the tapes.

By: Hicksu

Hicksu — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:54:34 -0800

I think I'm going to go rent the one I want while it finishes downloading.

By: perilous

perilous — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:55:33 -0800

Thanks so much for this - this is awesome. The links are already tanking, but this is awesome nonetheless, for as long as it lasts. Long live the Satellite of Love!

By: DU

DU — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:55:59 -0800

All MST3k episodes available in every format. That is all.

By: knowles

knowles — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:56:25 -0800

I don't know about you guys, but in about 16 hours I am going to be watching Sidehackers.

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:03:01 -0800

What with the sub-dialup speeds I'm getting right now, a station wagon full of VHS dubs of MST3K would trump this site's delivery any day. Guess I'll stick to BitTorrent and Usenet.

By: Horace Rumpole

Horace Rumpole — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:04:51 -0800

om nom nom Robot Holocaust nom nom

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:05:34 -0800

PULL my finger!

By: knowles

knowles — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:07:05 -0800

porn, i'm intrigued by your station wagon and wish to schedule a delivery to my house.

By: iwhitney

iwhitney — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:11:49 -0800

I think this requires a shout-out to the Digital Archive Project, the group most-likely responsible for making most, if not all, of those avi files. Also, they've taken high-quality source video of roughly 100 videos and made very nice DVDs, all of which can be found on their BitTorrent tracker The group enjoyed a decent working relationship with Rhino, during the time that company was releasing MST3k tapes and DVDs. The DAP people were always good about pulling down files of episodes released commercially.

By: Epenthesis

Epenthesis — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:17:45 -0800

You just ruined this, ObscureReferenceMan. Seriously. What are people thinking sometimes?

By: Lentrohamsanin

Lentrohamsanin — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:18:14 -0800

Has the quality of the eps on the DAP improved in the last few years? I remember trying episodes and finding most of them no better than my degrading old SLP VHS tapes. You just ruined this, ObscureReferenceMan. Dude, it was on Gizmodo a couple days ago.

By: hellojed

hellojed — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:18:44 -0800

MST3K_510_MITCHELL.avi 14 Hours and 31 minutes remaining It's worth the wait

By: hellojed

hellojed — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:20:35 -0800

Well, never mind, I got 3 seconds of movie before it conked out. To the torrents!

By: Pyry

Pyry — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:26:03 -0800

DAP moved to bittorrent? That's certainly more convenient than the arcane set of steps you had to take to actually get anything from them earlier.

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:26:10 -0800

'Mitchell, how do you like your scotch?' By the quart

By: TedW

TedW — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:27:51 -0800

MOVIE SIGN!

By: cereselle

cereselle — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0800

My-my-my-MY GOD!!!

By: knowles

knowles — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:35:45 -0800

lalala

By: starman

starman — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:36:34 -0800

CASTLETON.

By: maxwelton

maxwelton — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:39:02 -0800

I don't know about you guys, but in about 16 hours I am going to be watching Sidehackers. Sidehackers may be the best of the lot. But is it safe?

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:41:09 -0800

Huzzah!

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:45:07 -0800

The inevitable 503.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:46:09 -0800

They'll cease and desist this with a forklift!

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:47:33 -0800

Also, why download the whole episode when the best parts are -- IMHO -- right here?

By: loquacious

loquacious — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:53:39 -0800

YOU BASTARDS STOP SUCKING UP MY BITS MINE MINE MINE. Woah, that really is actually slower than a torrent. Nevermind, you can have them.

By: tapeguy

tapeguy — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:09:18 -0800

There's 24/7 MST3K streaming if you look under the 'Shoutcast TV' listing in Winamp's media library. I've currently got the Mole People episode on in the background.

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:11:14 -0800

Your favorite AVI-encoded MST3K episode ~~sucks~~ isn't in my top 10. For the record, I like the later-day 1995-onward stuff, for the record. Gimmie Jack Frost, Puma Man or Riding with Death any day.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:33:34 -0800

You think the download is a long wait? You should try ordering Torgo Pizza! See this thread? It won't die! ... Mitchell!

By: TheClonusHorror

TheClonusHorror — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:37:32 -0800

If you're looking for a good one, try to get episode 811, "parts: the clonus horror". So good, I named myself after it. Featuring Professor Darren-from-Bewitched and Dr. Super Mario Brother.

By: gurple

gurple — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:40:01 -0800

So long, CHUM!

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:45:57 -0800

Push the button, Frank.

By: Snyder

Snyder — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:54:06 -0800

What was I thinking!?

By: Sweetie Darling

Sweetie Darling — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:02:52 -0800

Oh, Catalina Caper (Season 2) - it's like a dream come true. Little Richard hopped up on goofballs!

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:23:33 -0800

"C'mon! Try and move faster than the plot!" I recommend Pod People. It has nothing to do with pods. It has nothing to do with people. It has everything to do with hurting. I'd have to say that's my personal favorite. McCloud!!!! Other good eps include Robot Monster, Pumaman, Mitchell, Eegah, Gunslinger (with Beverly Garland! She's hot!), Manos The Hands of Fate, Cavedwellers, The Wild Wild World of Batwoman, Diabolik, Angels Revenge, The Creeping Terror, and anything with Gamera in it. I do not recommend Red Zone Cuba, Sidehackers, I Accuse My Parents, Skydivers, Parts the Clonus Horror, or Alien from LA. Those personally didn't do anything for me, but even when MST3K was bad, they were still pretty good. Also as always don't forget to check out the guys over at RiffTrax. Even though I don't anymore, because I'm still supposed to be mad at them over something or other I forget. And remember kids! "Helping Children Through Research And Development" is just the acronym!

By: wittgenstein

wittgenstein — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:36:47 -0800

Two words, Hercules! French Doors!

By: nola

nola — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:17:17 -0800

Trumpy you can do stupid things!

By: drezdn

drezdn — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:38:26 -0800

Metafilter: Watch out for snakes!

By: crapmatic

crapmatic — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:38:43 -0800

With a pickled mind, we kick the nipple beer! Steady as a goat, we're flying over trout. Ghetto down the highway at the speed of light. All I want to feel now is the wind in my eyes. Sack of monkeys in my pocket, my sister's ready to go. Burning rubber tires!

By: seldom seen cid

seldom seen cid — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:47:36 -0800

My personal, all-time fave is a tie between Pumaman and Space Mutiny. If Manos wasn't so damn boring as a movie, it'd be at the top just by virtue of Torgo and his haunting theme song. The b&w movies never really did it for me, though.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:48:36 -0800

(Pressing "play" on my tape recorder....) "First off, let me say HELLO, and welcome to the world of Mystery Science Theater 3000 fandom! "I understand that the first time you see the show it seems so brilliantly original, so weird and whimsical, so different from nearly everything else you've seen, that the temptation is to tell all your friends about it. This is understandable, even if at least half of them will look at you funny afterwards. (MST3K, it is sad to say, is probably not for everyone.) "HOWEVER, the very next temptation after that is usually to distribute whatever episodes of the show one can find, and something must be said about this: please, be careful what you share. The following text attempts to explain why, not in a spirit of haranguing filesharers, but to make the online history of the show known, and to plea that you consider the rights of the show's creators. Nothing more. "You see, Mystery Science Theater is not just different from other shows due to its premise and wit. It's also different because, in a state of affairs that is almost unheard-of in this age of relaxed program ownership regulations, the copyright of the show is owned, not by the broadcaster, but by the guys in Minnesota who created and produced the show: Joel Hodgson and Jim Mallon. "Most fans recognize this and, being the empathetic and intelligent souls that fans of the show somehow tend to be, they tend to look out for the rights of the show's originators. Thus, they refuse to share episodes that are available for sale on DVD, as this leads to a direct loss of income for the chief Brains. "Now as it happens, there are plenty of episodes that will likely never be made available for DVD release. This is because, to legally sell a DVD of an episode of MST3K, two rightsholders must be satisfied: the owners of the show, and the owners of the movie riffed upon. To air the original program only required broadcast rights, and even before the end of the Comedy Central era of the show there were already some shows that could no longer be aired because Comedy Central's broadcast rights had lapsed and it was either too expensive to renew them, or (as in the cast of the Sandy Frank movies) the rightsholder was simply unwilling to let the mockery of their precious property continue. "That is the case with broadcast rights. The situation with DVD rights is worse still. It is within the rights of the copyright owner to request a royalty on sales of the DVD, and it is possible for that royalty to be too much to make the production and sale of an episode disc continue. Because of this, many episodes are in danger of falling into the memory hole. And also because of this, fans of the show tend to consider the trading of these unavailable episodes to be okay, if not legally, then ethically, at least regarding Best Brains. "Now, this being the internet, not every fan of the show cares a whit about the rights of Joel and Jim, either because they're not familiar with the show's quasi-organized fandom, or they just don't care. And some people who share the show do it just because they can; they might not even care about the show, and are just sharing the files to further their own standing in some internet sub-clique or something. "So that is the situation regarding the trading of episode files. If you do trade episodes online, might I suggest that, as a gesture of good will towards the owners, that you both refrain from trading episodes available on DVD, and to purchase some of those DVDs. It is true that this likely will not make further episodes of the show possible; the chances of the show bring revived at this date are extremely low. And it's also true that most of the Brains have moved on to other projects; really, it's just Joel and Jim that profit from any sales. In light of the availability of downloadable episodes of the show, there is no revenue-mechanical justification for giving money to the Brains; the reason I suggest this is out of respect to the creators. "If you continue to trade episodes, you should at least be aware of their source. Most of the episodes available for trade online were originally captured and encoded by the sterling efforts of the MST3K Digital Archive Project (MSTDAP)."

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:51:08 -0800

(And now, removing my Longwinded Nag hat, I feel like I show add that any post that can make the infamously grumpy ZachsMind start spouting quotes like a teenage fanboy has, regardless of its other faults, brought a ray of sunshine to the world.)

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:56:20 -0800

No dancing. Not allowed. No kissing. Not allowed. No spouting quotes like a teenage fanboy. Not allowed.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:59:09 -0800

JHarris: "Thus, they refuse to share episodes that are available for sale on DVD, as this leads to a direct loss of income for the chief Brains. " This is the same argument the RIAA has with regards to music. There is no concrete evidence to confirm that revenue is being lost through filesharing.

By: Venadium

Venadium — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:04:45 -0800

Awesome. I love these posts. If the bandwidth ever recovers I'll probably grab a few episodes. But first, let me just test these batteries...

By: Ghidorah

Ghidorah — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:11:11 -0800

I think I'll relax and enjoy the movies, in the tranquility of postwar Japan!?

By: Venadium

Venadium — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:22:07 -0800

I am building up such a laugh right now.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:23:42 -0800

"Now, this being the internet, not every fan of the show cares a whit about the rights of Joel and Jim, either because they're not familiar with the show's quasi-organized fandom, or they just don't care." Ugh. I can't believe I have to explain this in a MST3K forum of all places but some people STILL don't get it. This has long been a burr in my shoe on the topic of filesharing, especially when it comes to something like MST3K. I don't personally have any stake in the lives of Jim or Joel and shouldn't be expected to care a whit about them as people. However, I personally appreciate the work they put in, and have gotten a lot of entertainment from them as well as education about some aspects of cinema history that otherwise would have been forgotten. I also care in my own way about the many people we have to thank for all these "bad" movies. They too put a lot of work in, and they should not be forgotten. When you share the tapes, or make torrents of stuff like MST3K, you are keeping it alive. You are offering an opportunity for new people to learn about how wonderful this stuff is. Entire new generations will continue to be entertained by this stuff for a long time, regardless of their financial level or geographical location, because we're still sharing the tapes. We're still torrenting the avi's. We're still remembering, and we're still talking about it. Information wants to be free. When it is stifled, be it over governmental censorship or due to economical barricades and legal folderol, the public is denied an avenue of knowledge, and a lot of things just get forgotten that way. Out of sight out of mind. The more recent projects of Hodgson and Nelson would not have any legs whatsoever if by now we had long forgotten about them. They still have audiences today, because we shared the tapes. IF the guy who played Torgo had not committed suicide a couple years after the movie came out, the MSTing of Manos would have given him a second chance at fame, had he wanted to grab for it. Would he have found success? We'll never know, because his untimely death robbed us all of the opportunity to find that out. If you have the money, by all means pay for it. If you don't, don't let the forces of ineptitude make you feel guilty about filesharing, cuz in your own way you are spreading the word and that's how you're paying back, by paying FORWARD to those who don't know yet. If you think 'word of mouth' isn't worth anything, go talk to Joss Whedon. He's making "dozens and dozens" of dollars through Dr. Horrible's Sing Along. Without word of mouth, he woulda made nothing. Without word of mouth, Dollhouse would have already been cancelled. Without word of mouth, there would have been no Firefly movie. When you fileshare, you're paying it forward. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

By: Ritchie

Ritchie — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:34:16 -0800

What ZachsMind said. Also, the MST3K DVDs are not available in Region 4 or multi-region format, and for me to circumvent the region restrictions on a legally-purchased DVD is, according to many, just as illegal as downloading the damn DVD for nothing. So, er, as the saying goes, might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

By: ObscureReferenceMan

ObscureReferenceMan — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:40:30 -0800

DU - Nice addition! I hesitated at posting this, what with it being a little... well, borderline. But first off, I am a huge fan. Second, if all the episodes were available, I'd buy them all. But they're not. And to paraphrase ZachsMind, this is a good thing.

By: cashman

cashman — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:45:19 -0800

Seems to be having issues.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:53:59 -0800

Hey, I was just giving the argument. I said in my (increasingly embarrassingly long and naggy to my eyes) comment that the reasons for supporting Best Brains pretty much fall apart. The only reason to buy a DVD, pretty much, is out of respect. I myself have around seven of the DVD boxed sets and a handful of loose episodes on DVD and VHS as well. But I ALSO have downloaded copies of every other episode of the show. (I also have a good number of RiffTrax, all purchased, and am starting to look into Cinematic Titanic, maybe at Dragon*Con in a couple of weeks, where Joel, Frank and Trace are supposed to be....) Anyway, for what it's worth, I agree that it's more important for the show to be remembered than to be profited from. But remember that for all its greatness, MST3K's is still a fairly low-key kind of popularity. That kind of fame does not necessarily provide enough, in itself, to put food on any but the most rickety of tables. Oh, and about this line: I don't personally have any stake in the lives of Jim or Joel and shouldn't be expected to care a whit about them as people. I suspect that this is a major difference in our outlooks upon the world, for I regularly find myself caring for all kinds of people who I've never met. Isn't that just basic humanity?

By: chrominance

chrominance — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:07:36 -0800

Word of mouth is fine, but I think you've missed the point of JHarris's comment. If everyone had decided they were going to "pay" for Dr. Horrible by passing it on to a bunch of their friends, Joss Whedon would have exactly zero dozens of dollars from that project. There needs to be a balance between supporting creators and allowing the free flow of information. All JHarris said was it would be nice if people didn't trade the episodes you could get on DVD, because those ones actually make money for Joel and Jim. If you don't already know this, the number of MST3K episodes on DVD make up a significant portion of the show's run, but nowhere near all of it. To further confuse things, some of the DVD releases were subsequently pulled by the publisher, Rhino, for various reasons that probably have to do with legal issues. In other words, there are plenty of episodes that could be considered ethically okay to distribute, since there's no other way to get them. So why steal the ones you actually can buy on DVD as well? This does not strike me as a particularly radical stance.

By: KoPi_42

KoPi_42 — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:09:46 -0800

If Rhino actually gave a shit about captioning any of their DVDs, my husband (who is Deaf) would have purchased every single DVD and box set two times over. Hell, I would have purchased copies for all of my friends. But since they don't, I have to resort to captioning them myself so he can watch them again, and that requires me to find .avi files. And spend hours upon hours watching them over and over again to make sure I get the timing right. Someone explain to me why the movie can have two sets of closed-captioning, and why the broadcasts had captions, but the DVDs can't? So yeah. As much as I want to give Joel and company their due, I'm going to have to pirate in order to enjoy them for myself. (I fully retract my statement if someone out there has actually found where they're hiding the damn subtitles. /is bitter)

By: britain

britain — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:23:28 -0800

My local library has a number of MST3k DVDs available for ~~ripping with handbrake~~ borrowing, not to mention three of the Film Crew DVDs. If you live in Michigan and your library is part of TLN, you can place holds and get them shipped to you. If not, then ask your local librarian -- they've got to spend their budget on something, and from my experience they're delighted to get something patrons ask for. "He learned almost too late that man is a feeling creature..."

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:45:37 -0800

IF the guy who played Torgo had not committed suicide a couple years after the movie came out, the MSTing of Manos would have given him a second chance at fame, had he wanted to grab for it. Would he have found success? We'll never know, because his untimely death robbed us all of the opportunity to find that out. I don't mean to be unnecessarily cruel, but arguably that was quite the timely death indeed. Also, it would be a shame if people found out about something like schmalt.schminaries.schmultischmedia.mst3k.

By: Cyrano

Cyrano — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:45:45 -0800

Information wants to be free. "I taught him everything he knows, but I didn't teach him everything I know." Information has always been hoarded. Just not always behind a price tag.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:52:54 -0800

Stealing is cool.

By: Pseudology

Pseudology — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:16:31 -0800

I remember seeing a comic where the MST3K characters reviewed this chick tract about the evils of Dungeons & Dragons. Does anybody know if that's still around on the internet somewhere?

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:57:56 -0800

When does the Joel vs. Mike debate begin?

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:24:40 -0800

Cyrano: "Information has always been hoarded. Just not always behind a price tag." Yes. You are absolutely right. However, information always wants to be free. It can be caged or corralled or even locked in a monastery cellar for a time, but it always seems to have a way of being found eventually. I mean yes, some knowledge is lost, but not for a lack of trying. Knowledge wants to be known, and those who try to control or silence information have to work really hard. It often costs more to hoard it in the long run. It's kinda like money. If you just keep dollar bills in the mattress of your bed and not spend it ever, it's just paper that has no real value beyond what you place upon it. However, if you circulate your money, and spend it wisely, or even put it in a bank so it can collect interest, you will inevitably reap better rewards than if you just hoard it and never let your money see the light of day. Information wants to be out there, and when more people start to realize it, more people will be enriched by the sharing. ROU_Xenophobe: "I don't mean to be unnecessarily cruel, but arguably that was quite the timely death indeed." Oh go ahead and be unnecessarily cruel. The man's dead, and I don't personally have a lot of nice things to say about suicides. No fair that they get to quit. They should have to tough it out with the rest of us. It's fine that you think it's good he killed himself. You wouldn't be one of the ones who woulda gone to see him speak at a college or something. I for one think had he had more encouragement, training, and positive vibes, he could have been a great character actor. I mean okay. The movie sucks. No question about that. However, John Reynolds' performance in Manos was fearless and risky. He gave 110% to the part, and once one realizes the reason he was walking funny was because of prosthetic legs that were painful to wear, because he was literally playing a satyr, what he was trying to do makes a hell of a lot more sense. Reynolds was completely unappreciated in his time, and apparently still today. Given what little he had to work with, he did a bang up job and deserves respect. I respect any actor who doesn't fear silence. When in front of the camera, John Reynolds didn't fear anything. There's a reason why the most memorable character in the show was Torgo, and that's cuz the most memorable performance was John Reynolds.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:26:42 -0800

ShakesPeherian: "When does the Joel vs. Mike debate begin?" It starts eighteen years ago, and ends next Thursday.

By: chuckdarwin

chuckdarwin — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 01:23:40 -0800

Information has always been hoarded. Just not always behind a price tag. Most often some schmuck with a pointy hat who "knows Jeebus intimately" has it locked in a vault somewhere in Italy.

By: Sparx

Sparx — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:51:41 -0800

I remember seeing a comic where the MST3K characters reviewed this chick tract about the evils of Dungeons & Dragons. Does anybody know if that's still around on the internet somewhere? Here you go. I quite like this one too, thought it's no MST3K.

By: LSK

LSK — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:04:15 -0800

I was surprised! I thought the first episode was lost.

By: Deathalicious

Deathalicious — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:29:56 -0800

Information wants to be free. Your salary wants to be zero. Really, okay, I get it. Knowing about something can help the original creators. But sometimes it almost sounds like those ads for work where the pay is "exposure". And there is a lot of information that wants to be free because it was designed that way. But if I wrote a book, say, I would not want it to be free. I might offer a free chapter on my website, but I would not want people sending PDF files of the book to other people. I remember a story about an author pushing a new book who went on a radio show. At the end of the program the host said, "Check the book out from your library." and the author said, "No, go out and buy it!" Now this might have been sort of a dick move, but the point is that when your business is the creation of information it very much matters to you whether or not someone is paying for that information, or getting it for free. I would argue that in the case of music, moving to a new paradigm (release fewer cds for pay and increase your concerts/swag) can keep you profitable even if you allow your music shared for free. But if your medium is something else, where the medium is the source of revenue, then, yeah, people just telling you "Information wants to be free" is, I'm sorry, well it sometimes just pisses me off.

By: Deathalicious

Deathalicious — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:35:11 -0800

BTW this is totally why I agree with what JHarris wrote. If there's information out there that doesn't affect the creator negatively in regards to cash flow, by all means go ahead and make it freely available. And if the person who made it is dead and long gone, for goodness sakes make it free. I also don't agree with the ridiculous extension of copyright...I honestly think most items should fall into public domain after 50 years whether the maker is dead or not.

By: Spatch

Spatch — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:46:37 -0800

And if you're really concerned about the financial well-being of Joel Hodgson, Mike Nelson, Mary Jo Pehl, Kevin Murphy, and your other favorite Brains, go out and purchase copies of their new projects. Cinematic Titanic and Rifftrax both offer MST3K-esque experiences for download or DVD order, so instead of worrying how you're going to get $10.00 to Joel after downloading that copy of Sidehackers (only love pads the film) you can instead give him $14.99 and get a copy of Cinematic Titantic's latest, The Wasp Woman. (on the Rifftrax side, I wholeheartedly recommend their take on the Star Wars Christmas Special along with Mike Nelson and Weird Al Yankovic teaming up for Jurassic Park.)

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:47:30 -0800

> IF the guy who played Torgo had not committed suicide a couple years after the movie came out... "The role of Torgo would be John Reynolds' first and last in a film.... He committed suicide the month before the film's November 1966 release following emotional problems and drug abuse. As Reynolds never saw the finished film, his suicide was not, as has been rumored, in shame over the film's reception." -- Wikipedia

By: Avenger50

Avenger50 — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:30:09 -0800

However, information always wants to be free. It can be caged or corralled or even locked in a monastery cellar for a time, but it always seems to have a way of being found eventually. ZachsMind, your epic speeches in this thread are based on a false premise, namely, your definition of "information." What is it? Anything you want for free? Any work of art? Any written word? Anything digitally created? Anything in the world? Your romanticized version of information, yearning like a corralled horse to run wild and free does not equal unique works created by authors, musicians, and artists. You assume it does and should based on some version of morality or freedom you adhere to. Creators generally don't adhere to this. Even those who appear to be agreeing with you will require payment of some of their creations at some point. For you to paint this as wrong is silly and naive. The "pay it forward" model does not work the way you describe it for the majority of creators. It worked for Radiohead. But would it work for the Fleet Foxes? Who, you ask? Exactly. If they hadn't made their way through traditional business models and sold a debut album, they would not have enjoyed the modest success they are now. Radiohead's In Rainbows was an exception that everyone is trying to make the rule based solely on their success. "Look, it worked for Radiohead!" Yes, one of the biggest bands in the world. It worked. Like Deathalicious began to explain, there are and will be better models. But I doubt they will be your dramatized version of information, always free, all the time. I think you'd be shocked at the role of a creator in such a world. They would hide and lock away their information themselves, refusing to give it away to people who won't value it enough to pay for it, whether monetarily or otherwise.

By: the_bone

the_bone — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:51:51 -0800

Has anyone successfully downloaded an episode from this site? It's slower than Torgo's gait.

By: cashman

cashman — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:20:56 -0800

It's slower than a snoring snail in syrup.

By: Artw

Artw — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:35:04 -0800

So basically behind every Doctrowesque fair-use activist there's a w4reZ d00d who basically wants to be be able to rip off other peoples tuff and feel good about it.

By: Artw

Artw — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:35:20 -0800

stuff

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:24:48 -0800

I love MST3K That is all.

By: SpiffyRob

SpiffyRob — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:27:41 -0800

/me rips out Artw's tuff.

By: grubi

grubi — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:04:14 -0800

well, Joel, of course.

By: porn in the woods

porn in the woods — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:40:05 -0800

I think I'm going to dig out my DVD of Space Mutiny tonight - this was aces all around. "No, the death of Rick Springfield!" "Toro, Toro - these things are made by Toro!" "Not since the Fuzzy Zoeller/Lee Trevino collision of 1974 has there been such a horrible golf cart accident!" "Music rejected by the band Survivor."

By: JHarris

JHarris — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:54:28 -0800

ZachsMind: I mean okay. The movie sucks. No question about that. However, John Reynolds' performance in Manos was fearless and risky. Alas, all the voices for Manos were dubbed. A great portion of an actor's performance is his voice, and we've never gotten the chance to hear that. We'll never really know how good his performance was. (Something in me wants his performance to have been brilliant, though. Can't help feeling sorry for the guy. Harold Warren himself, I read somewhere, died under questionable circumstances involving the financing for a Manos sequel and the mob. This is probably rumor though.)

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:55:43 -0800

Joel vs. Mike, whatever. I'm all about Clayton and Frank.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:56:49 -0800

britain: Yours is the most awesome library in the whole wide world.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:00:41 -0800

JHarris, you can find a ton of MST3K DVDs (and libraries that'll interlibrary loan them) right here.

By: subbes

subbes — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:14:20 -0800

Arguably you're screwing Joel more by buying the Rhino releases because Rhino did some shady dealings and got out of paying Joel anything while profiting off the DVD sales, whereas at least with piracy you're guilty enough to perhaps buy something from Cinematic Titanic.

By: Anguishedcorn

Anguishedcorn — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:58:25 -0800

Sidehackin' it's the thing to do.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:43:31 -0800

Avenger50: "your epic speeches in this thread are based on a false premise, namely, your definition of "information." What is it?" I didn't like Radiohead's In Rainbows. I've listened to it once. Deleted it. I'm thankful I didn't spend a penny on that. Had I actually liked it, I woulda paid them something. I'm happy to hear they did well overall, and that other people who had money who did enjoy it actually put their money where their mouth is. That's what I'm talking about. If that doesn't always work, that means there's not enough people out there who want to support that artist enough to shell out some cash. Tough. I'm sorry... That didn't answer your question? You want me to define the word "information" for you? Try dictionary.com. That might help. Paying it forward has worked for millenia: just not always in a matter that pleases a board of directors in a skyscraper wearing suits and drinking lattes while reviewing charts and graphs. Quite frankly, I prefer it that way.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:46:22 -0800

I'd totally forgotten that I discovered MST3K waaaay back in the KTMA proto-season (the first episode I saw was Superdome), and was utterly bummed when it moved to the Comedy Channel - my Luddite parents didn't believe in cable (still don't! I just realized they are totally the people those PSAs about talking to your senior citizen neighbors about the switch to digital broadcast are talking about... I probably should give them a call about that...). We were still renting the VCR along with the movies at the video store at that point... I even had an original fan club card, I used to carry it around in my wallet, God knows how long gone that thing is. I ended up not seeing the show again until I watched Mitchell at a friend's apartment in '94, must have been a repeat... I wouldn't have cable or indeed a television of my own until late '95. That was probably one of the few times in my life I was onto a cult trend ahead of the crowd. So I'll have to politely dispute the Every. Single... part of this post's title.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:53:37 -0800

Incidentally, you can find horrible multi-part VHS transcripts of many of those first-year episodes in all their reputed $250/show glory floating around on YouTube by googling MST3K and the episode titles. Lest ye think I dreamed it all...

By: telstar

telstar — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:01:19 -0800

Um, copyright martinets? MST3K is about riding on top of other people's work.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:05:21 -0800

Dang (talking to myself in some soon-to-be-forgotten corner of the internet again), I just realized I got a copy of the first fanclub newsletter in the mail, I really was in early. I am awash in nostalgia. And damn do I feel old.

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:14:37 -0800

> Um, copyright martinets? MST3K is about riding on top of other people's work. Best Brains paid the original copyright holders to do so. When they couldn't get (or afford) rights renewals for the movies they used, those episodes were pulled off the air.

By: Avenger50

Avenger50 — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:54:51 -0800

I'm sorry... That didn't answer your question? Nope. But more clever drama from ZachsMind. This episode: skyscrapers, lattes, charts and graphs! Hooray! You and your superfluous repartees will no doubt make information free for everyone, and soon. Perhaps you should employ dictionary.com on "false" and "premise" and return to the subject when you're good and ready and got all your giggles out.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:38:46 -0800

Hey, they added the KTMA episodes, the circle is now complete. Of course, they're all still impossible to download. Apparently they've added some kinds of clever business that organizes and streamlines the process of all episodes being impossible to download.

By: The corpse in the library

The corpse in the library — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:32:39 -0800

Information doesn't want anything. It's not sentient.