Bush Administration: McCain Not Tortured
August 20, 2008 1:24 PM   Subscribe

Bush Administration: John McCain was not tortured.
posted by WCityMike (47 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: SLBOE - this would be good over at politicalfilter.com -- jessamyn



 
Well, I guess that settles it then.
posted by Floydd at 1:27 PM on August 20, 2008


Look, it worked for Vietnam, perhaps it will work for the US.
posted by Mister_A at 1:28 PM on August 20, 2008


A short walk off a short pier.
posted by y2karl at 1:29 PM on August 20, 2008


McCain swiftboated himself?
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:30 PM on August 20, 2008 [4 favorites]


Oh, this is good news. Where's wendell?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:32 PM on August 20, 2008


Very weak SLOE post with a misleading intro.
posted by desjardins at 1:33 PM on August 20, 2008 [1 favorite]




Fellow Vietnam POW: Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain.
posted by ericb at 1:35 PM on August 20, 2008


Uh, you guys didn't get the memo. McCain was a POW, he loves his country, he's not arrogant, he's a maverick, he's an honorable man who does not enjoy running a negative campaign, he was a POW, he loves Jesus, hates abortions, puts country first, and was a POW.
posted by billysumday at 1:36 PM on August 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


Andrew Sullivan: McCain's "Cross In The Dirt" Story Questioned.
posted by ericb at 1:36 PM on August 20, 2008


Is there a single shred of anything in that SLOE that's less than, let's say, three years old?
posted by Plutor at 1:37 PM on August 20, 2008


An interesting take on the topic.

what does SLOE stand for? Single Link ...?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:41 PM on August 20, 2008


SLOE
posted by everichon at 1:43 PM on August 20, 2008


Damn, I was really hoping that it wasn't just a "Oh, hey, under the definitions we are using now, you were never really tortured, you just underwent an 'enhanced interrogation'" and someone had actually accused him of outright lying or something.

Because I was, just for a moment, loving the idea of watching McCain snap and start beating the shit out of Cheney and Bush.
posted by quin at 1:44 PM on August 20, 2008 [3 favorites]


Legend of John McCainTM.
posted by ericb at 1:44 PM on August 20, 2008


Wasn't he beaten? I don't think beating was included in any of the lists administration-approved "enhanced interrogation techniques". Sleep deprivation and stress positions, yes, but not beating.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:45 PM on August 20, 2008


This is an argument that, while sound, will at best be lost on the general public and at worst erroneously perceived as an attack on McCain.
posted by brain_drain at 1:45 PM on August 20, 2008


Well, this will probably be the last post in this thread, but FWIW I think Sullivan's got a hell of an interesting point.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:46 PM on August 20, 2008


I think it's less an indictment of McCain than of Bush-era newspeak.
posted by everichon at 1:49 PM on August 20, 2008 [3 favorites]


Looking for logical flaws in the actions and words of these people is like shooting fish in a barrel; aren't we way past the point now where anybody expects any kind of rational behaviour?
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 1:49 PM on August 20, 2008


Cynthia McKinney is logically consistent.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:56 PM on August 20, 2008


Who is the grey-haired stranger there?
Maverick is the name.
Straight Talk Express to who knows where,
Luck is his companion,
Politics is his game.
Smooth as a lobbiest on the make.
Maverick is the name.
Wild as a senator on the take,
Damming up a canyon,
He won't take the blame.

Coral reefs go to hell,
Let's drill an offshore well.
Greed is the lady that he loves the best.
Gitmo to Washington
Let's torture just for fun
Maverick is a legend of the west.
posted by Floydd at 1:59 PM on August 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


I doubt he was tortured as much as the logic of the current administration.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:00 PM on August 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


Cynthia McKinney is logically consistent.

And if you say otherwise, she'll slap you.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:01 PM on August 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


Isn't Toby Keith that country singer that has a song about lynching people?

So it's "lynch only the poor black people. Obama is okay with me"?
posted by giraffe at 2:04 PM on August 20, 2008


And if you say otherwise, she'll slap you.

That's because she's strong on defense.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:08 PM on August 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


Ya' gotta love how McCain and his staff throw around his POW status.
"McCain’s staff bristled at suggestions that McCain listened to the broadcast [of Obama's Q&A with Rev. Rick Warren] while en route to the church.

'The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,' said McCain spokeswoman Nicolle Wallace. [NYT, Aug. 18, 2008]

What McCain’s Vietnam War-era POW status had to do with this wasn’t clear. But it was clear that Warren’s assurance that 'we have safely placed Senator McCain in a cone of silence' wasn’t true, nor was McCain’s light-hearted remark about trying to hear through the wall."*
posted by ericb at 2:08 PM on August 20, 2008


SLOW
posted by Debaser626 at 2:09 PM on August 20, 2008


This argument will only work with rational people. brain_drain pretty much nailed it. :
"This is an argument that, while sound, will at best be lost on the general public and at worst erroneously perceived as an attack on McCain."

I grew up in West Texas, and the folks there are good folks, but their penchant for pithy witticisms eclipses their ability to entertain rational debate and implement critical thought. Metaphors are mental shortcuts. This is the case with a lot of Americans.

The one thing the Democrats really, really, need to do to win, is to go straight to ground. Like some martial arts styles, it's not about winning fairly or with honor, it's about winning with certainty and immediacy. Politics is debate on the level of third graders - whoever does the best name-calling wins.

Besides, invoking Bush is a poor gambit. Play the doddering old boozing adulterous fool card until everyone wants to scream. Don't even think about discussing policies, or you lose all the people who despise effete hand-wringing intellectualism and confuse it with rationalism.
posted by Xoebe at 2:10 PM on August 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


George Bush has been very clear that "we do not torture," because "any activity we conduct is within the law." As Dick Cheney's lawyer clarified, laws against torture are "inapplicable to interrogations undertaken pursuant to his commander-in-chief authority." As another constitutional scholar once put it, "when the president does it that means that it is not illegal."

The enhanced interrogation techniques used by the North Vietnamese prison guards at the Hanoi Hilton in 1967 may be identical to techniques used today, but they were not authorized by the president of the United States. Therefore, John McCain was tortured, and his captors are guilty of war crimes. Q.E.D.
posted by designbot at 2:14 PM on August 20, 2008 [4 favorites]


"Do as I say, not as I do" has been the conservative mantra of the powerful forever and ever. It works (unless you're going for respect).

Two-faced people suck.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:18 PM on August 20, 2008


Wasn't he beaten? I don't think beating was included in any of the lists administration-approved "enhanced interrogation techniques". Sleep deprivation and stress positions, yes, but not beating.

Interestingly, the Gestapo originally banned waterboarding as too extreme, but allowed prisoners to be beaten with a stick as part of their sharpened interrogation techniques. The word translated here as "sharpened," "Verschärfte," can also be translated "enhanced." Sound familiar?
posted by EarBucket at 2:23 PM on August 20, 2008


Sorry, meant to link to this document.
posted by EarBucket at 2:23 PM on August 20, 2008


This is great. The mainstream media now has been given permission -- no, the obligation -- by the Bush administration to finally hold McCain accountable for calling Vietnamese "gooks".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:36 PM on August 20, 2008


Aw. That's just mean.
posted by ColdChef at 2:39 PM on August 20, 2008


Let's play some Dungeons and Dragons.
posted by Artw at 2:40 PM on August 20, 2008


OK, then, I hereby give you permission--no, the obligation--to discuss Mickey Rooney's acting in Breakfast at Tiffanys.
posted by y2karl at 2:44 PM on August 20, 2008


Interestingly, the Gestapo originally banned waterboarding as too extreme

*blink*

How's that democracy working out for ya, America?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:48 PM on August 20, 2008


Let's play some Dungeons and Dragons.

John McCain Campaign Takes a +3 Vorpal Blade to Dungeons & Dragons Players
"Confronting questions about whether John McCain stole an inspiring POW story from the autobiography of a former Soviet prisoner, a campaign spokesman threw out this melee attack against a much-maligned geek pastime:

'It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement,' said McCain aide Michael Goldfarb, in a posting to the campaign website. 'But most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others.'"
posted by ericb at 2:52 PM on August 20, 2008




Hey, wasn't this news about the time that those torture memos came out? I dunno, wasn't that like three years ago at least?
posted by klangklangston at 2:55 PM on August 20, 2008


This post is still here? Aww...I miss the <img> tag.
posted by Brak at 2:57 PM on August 20, 2008


Not McCain's day

Would that were true, most unfortunately, he has been gaining on Obama's lead.
posted by madamjujujive at 2:57 PM on August 20, 2008


Blathering about getting the US into a war with Russia from the safe position of not being able to do it has apparently been to his advantage, as it shows he's "strong on foreign policy".
posted by Artw at 3:00 PM on August 20, 2008


Not McCain's day

Would that were true, most unfortunately, he has been gaining on Obama's lead.

If by "gaining" you mean that Zogby has him ahead by five points nationally, then that's right Madam. Have I mentioned recently that there's no way we win this thing, but we have to keep supporting Obama anyway for reasons I sometimes don't quite understand?
posted by The Bellman at 3:03 PM on August 20, 2008


I can't believe this thread hasn't been deleted yet.
posted by Class Goat at 3:04 PM on August 20, 2008


This is pretty weak tea.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:13 PM on August 20, 2008


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