Comments on: Say Cheese!

Say Cheese!

blue_beetle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:18:52 -0800

Photos that Changed the World (more #1, more #2)

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:25:01 -0800

I've seen a lot of them, but some were new to me. Amazing, and in many cases, quite heartbreaking.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:27:30 -0800

wonderful but in what sense, what way have they changed the world?

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:29:22 -0800

This is why atrocities are history.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:38:44 -0800

As quoted in the Dead on the Beach photo, "words are never enough . . . words do not exist to make us see, or know, or feel what it is like, what actually happens."

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:44:00 -0800

I love how "Buchenwald camp" has Google Adwords for "Scottish Family Ancestry". Blech. Monetizing the images on the site linked to in this FPP is the nadir of banality and of bad taste.

By: yhbc

yhbc — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:46:04 -0800

Agreeing with the squick factor. This is a bunch of iconic photographs deliberately assembled, not for their intrinsic value, but to fetch eyeballs and sell adwords.

By: SeizeTheDay

SeizeTheDay — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:47:32 -0800

How depressing is our state of affairs that most of the memorable photos are also the most horrific. I can't tell if I should be awed by the power of the photo, or just saddened by their context.

By: Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese

Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:50:41 -0800

This is a bunch of iconic photographs deliberately assembled, not for their intrinsic value, but to fetch eyeballs and sell adwords. Of course many of these photos were originally taken for magazines and newspapers, which exist primarily to sell ads.

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:51:40 -0800

Where were you when a photo of a bullet going through an apple was taken? I was at the dry cleaners.

By: empath

empath — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:53:02 -0800

The story of the child with vulture.

By: kisch mokusch

kisch mokusch — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:53:29 -0800

No time to look at them properly, will have to come back to them. But thank you for posting, they look interesting, and I have only seen about a quarter of them before (the 5 year old mother is picture unbelievable*). Some of the comments on the site are pretty juvenile, though. *well, almost unbelievable.

By: acro

acro — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:55:51 -0800

Conrad Schumann -Wow. That's a real leap of faith.

By: These Premises Are Alarmed

These Premises Are Alarmed — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:56:55 -0800

Those 9/11 photographs still make my stomach turn. (So did taking a friend from out of town down to 'ground zero' a couple months ago.)

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:57:51 -0800

How depressing is our state of affairs that most of the memorable photos are also the most horrific. I can't tell if I should be awed by the power of the photo, or just saddened by their context. Well, it's only one person's selection. If you ever have a chance to see the annual World Press Photo finalists, there's an equal mixture of horror & uplifting photos.

By: marxchivist

marxchivist — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:58:01 -0800

Some of those comments make youtube comments look like....I don't know what.

By: photomusic86

photomusic86 — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:59:07 -0800

Geez. Just take the photos for what they are. Look at them, not whatever is surrounding them You have to filter how you look at any website these days. Big deal. These are just amazing photographs, ads or no ads. Besides, how else would you see them if not in magazines and newspapers? Or online forums with pop ups and banners? These photos affected the people who saw them; they cause an emotional response. Several of them changed or encouraged public opinion on different events (The shooting of the viet kong helped turn public opinion against the Vietnam War). That's what makes them important.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:03:37 -0800

This is one of the very rare times that a website is better served with a 1-photo-per-page list layout. This is all too much to take on at once.

By: nola

nola — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:05:36 -0800

Yeah marxchivist between the images and the comments, I've lost all faith in this existance . . . all over again.

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:16:48 -0800

Does anyone have a link to the picture of a man laying in a hospital bed dying (or dead) of AIDS and his family is around him comforting him? The man had a beard and looks haggard. That photo moved me greatly and I see it periodically, but I can never find it and I don't know the photographer or much else about the context.

By: BrnP84

BrnP84 — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:18:25 -0800

Looking at some of those photos makes me ashamed to be a human, I wish I was a butterfly.

By: EndsOfInvention

EndsOfInvention — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:23:16 -0800

I'm not sure how exactly some of these photos "changed the world". I mean, did 9/11 change the world? Sure. Did a photo of 9/11 change the world? Not really.

By: lemuria

lemuria — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:27:29 -0800

Falconetti, do you mean this photo of David Kirby by Therese Frare?

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:27:42 -0800

And man, I'm sorry, but your post title is just terrible.

By: jouke

jouke — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:30:43 -0800

Pictures of people dying.

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:31:43 -0800

Thanks lemuria, that is indeed the photo I was thinking of.

By: tehloki

tehloki — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:33:05 -0800

The comments on that 5-year-old mother photo look like they came straight from 4chan. Congrats, internet, you made tehloki feel bad.

By: matty

matty — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:49:55 -0800

Great Post. Very simple, and to me 'Best of the Web'. These are some very moving images, some familiar, many not, that I wouldn't have come across otherwise. Thank you.

By: Ms. Saint

Ms. Saint — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:57:11 -0800

On the first link, there is a photo described as Iranian men dressed as women and firing guns. On the third link, the same photo is described as representing Iranian women learning how to fire guns. Which is right?

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:02:54 -0800

God, the guy's commentary in the "more #2" link is so utterly inane it almost takes away from the awesomeness of the pictures. "Her eyes are incredible." Really, dumbass?

By: livingdots

livingdots — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:04:09 -0800

Shemales. They're Iranian shemales.

By: modernnomad

modernnomad — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:05:04 -0800

Some good, some great photos, but very few of them 'changed the world'. I agree with the above -- without context, presented in this manner, this is just a ploy to gain ad revenue. Not best of the web.

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:06:08 -0800

They're women.

By: turgid dahlia

turgid dahlia — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:52:30 -0800

Photos That Changed ~~The World~~ America ftfy

By: turgid dahlia

turgid dahlia — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:53:04 -0800

Photos That ~~Changed~~ Affected America ftfm

By: klanawa

klanawa — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:05:45 -0800

how about, "photos of america changing."

By: klanawa

klanawa — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:12:45 -0800

does anyone know the truth about this one? it seems to be a fraud but my natural distrust of both sides of that particular conflict makes me suspicious of any claims as to its veracity or lack thereof.

By: mazola

mazola — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:13:19 -0800

Photos that changed the world .

By: geekyguy

geekyguy — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:21:58 -0800

So are all of these photos really in the public domain?

By: Slarty Bartfast

Slarty Bartfast — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:22:12 -0800

empath's link is worthy of an FPP all by itself.

By: Student of Man

Student of Man — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:48:47 -0800

If they are women, that says alot about how the newspeople shape our point of view. "..the steps Iranian fighters would take to mingle in with innocent people. " Secondly, most of the literature about the dying sudanese child Highlights the death of the photograher and colleague. The same disposition that led to the child's death in the first place. If she died. The very fact that no one bothered to find out what happened to her and that the photographer became a rockstar spells it. Pat yourselves on the back...you deserve it.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:54:53 -0800

does anyone know the truth about this one? Those who were there that day. And maybe not even all of them. empath's link is worthy of an FPP all by itself. Or two. See also: the 52 most influential photographs. acro: Schumann's leap came before that of Peter Fechter. Maybe he didn't believe his fellow guards would shoot.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:06:45 -0800

Geez. Just take the photos for what they are. Look at them, not whatever is surrounding them You have to filter how you look at any website these days. Big deal. I have a specific problem of using pictures taken from the Holocaust to sell online advertising.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:47:30 -0800

So it is all a Jewish plot?

By: Lemurrhea

Lemurrhea — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:04:19 -0800

I take it you were morally offended by, let's say, Schindler's List as well? Appropriating images & stories from the Holocaust to make money, pretty much the same thing?

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:39:31 -0800

Huh?

By: dabitch

dabitch — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:40:52 -0800

This bit from empath's link made me cry: Immediately after their plane touched down in the village of Ayod, Carter began snapping photos of famine victims. Seeking relief from the sight of masses of people starving to death, he wandered into the open bush. He heard a soft, high-pitched whimpering and saw a tiny girl trying to make her way to the feeding center. As he crouched to photograph her, a vulture landed in view. Careful not to disturb the bird, he positioned himself for the best possible image. He would later say he waited about 20 minutes, hoping the vulture would spread its wings. It did not, and after he took his photographs, he chased the bird away and watched as the little girl resumed her struggle. Afterward he sat under a tree, lit a cigarette, talked to God and cried. "He was depressed afterward," Silva recalls. "He kept saying he wanted to hug his daughter." Did carrying the whimpering girl to the feeding center not strike him as a good idea™?

By: dabitch

dabitch — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:45:35 -0800

*tries to favorite geekyguy's question multiple times* Because I find the google-ads on this as distasteful as many others, and you can bet none of the photographers are seeing a dime of it either.

By: TedW

TedW — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:01:17 -0800

An earlier post on this theme for those who are interested.

By: Pendragon

Pendragon — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:53:50 -0800

Peter Fechter was not a border guard, but a bricklayer.

By: Pendragon

Pendragon — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:56:34 -0800

dhartung: I now see you meant Schumann was a border guard, sorry.

By: athenian

athenian — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:43:31 -0800

"Did carrying the whimpering girl to the feeding center not strike him as a good idea?" Completely agree. I loathe the way in which journalists and photojournalists put up a big front about not interfering with individuals, only reporting, while back at HQ their papers bang away at the political paranoia of the day. Thus 5 year olds are left to die of starvation while newspapers endlessly bang the drum about evil immigrants or invading Iran.

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:50:01 -0800

Agreed, dabitch. But it also seems a bit difficult to accuse Kevin Carter of insensitivity: "Two months after receiving his Pulitzer, Carter would be dead of carbon-monoxide poisoning in Johannesburg, a suicide at 33. His red pickup truck was parked near a small river where he used to play as a child; a green garden hose attached to the vehicle's exhaust funneled the fumes inside. "I'm really, really sorry," he explained in a note left on the passenger seat beneath a knapsack. "The pain of life overrides the joy to the point that joy does not exist."

By: cavalier

cavalier — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:53:02 -0800

I'm going to soil my hands to say this, but if you are true to the role of being only a documenter of an event, then you cannot participate in the event. If he had saved the girl, then he saved the next, then he saved the next, he would become part of the struggle, and his photographic vision risks becoming biased by becoming part of that struggle. I'm throwing up a little in my mouth as I type this, for I could not be that dedicated, but I can understand the line and why some videographers / filmmakers / photographers try to observe it.

By: cavalier

cavalier — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:54:27 -0800

Or, as vacapinta pointed out, you could try to observe the line and then kill yourself for being consumed with the guilt and pain of not becoming part of the struggle. Um, zing.

By: tommasz

tommasz — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:29:23 -0800

More evidence of lessons not learned.

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:01:21 -0800

As I get older, I am increasingly jaded. It's not very often that I get a real body blow of shock, disbelief and nausea anymore. So thanks for that picture of Medina.

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:09:02 -0800

Holy cow! Niagara Falls frozen too. I just visited the falls a week or so ago, and looked at a lot of pictures of it while I was there (which is kind of strange in a way I guess), but I've never seen this picture before.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:15:18 -0800

I take it you were morally offended by, let's say, Schindler's List as well? Appropriating images & stories from the Holocaust to make money, pretty much the same thing? Yes. Shoah is really the only appropriate way to portray the Holocaust in film. Look, I don't want to derail this thread, so please MeMail me if you would like to discuss. But at the very least, the link is not "best of the web", and is merely someone appropriating content in order to make some money via Adwords.

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:28:11 -0800

The Biafra picture in the first link is actually taken from the second link (Life photos site), it would appear.

By: LordSludge

LordSludge — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:23:25 -0800

Wow, those were depressing. Kittens and puppies to the rescue!

By: Alexandra Kitty

Alexandra Kitty — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:36:24 -0800

Excellent link, but I have to disagree with those who dismiss the notion that none of these photos changed the world. Of course they did. Some of these photos exposed lies that everything was alright with the world and there was no problem. Many snapped enough people out of their slumber and made them demand changes. Powerful people were made to be held accountable for their actions. Wars were triggered or stopped. The idea that we were living in a just world was proven to be false. An ugly side was revealed and people pretending to be white knights were proven to be anything but. The Kennedy Assassination shook the American people -- the feeling invulnerability wasn't shattered, but it was shaken. What if his assassination wasn't on tape -- would it have been seen the same? Absolutely not -- it's the difference between hearing that someone died, seeing their body after the fact, and actually witnessing their brutal death -- each has a different effect on us as individuals -- but take a collective and you have altered the course of events -- directly and indirectly. But some of those changes were subtle, but no less potent. They changed certain people whose life course went in a completely different direction -- and it may have taken decades, but there were changes that altered things in a different way. We can be numb to the changes going around us, but just because you don't see it, does't mean the changes aren't there.

By: emjaybee

emjaybee — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:25:21 -0800

I'm going to soil my hands to say this, but if you are true to the role of being only a documenter of an event, then you cannot participate in the event. I'm thinking that girl needed to be fed more than we needed a documentary about her suffering. And that this is a false dichotomy. In such extreme circumstances, you should not just walk away from your own humanity if there is something (such a small something) you can do. Art is worth nothing next to the life of that one little girl.

By: katillathehun

katillathehun — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:33:04 -0800

What, no Challenger explosion?

By: Pantengliopoli

Pantengliopoli — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:39:03 -0800

Thanks for the post. The owner of that site would be well-served by disabling comments... stupidity galore.

By: googly

googly — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:24:02 -0800

This isn't technically a double, but it is quite familiar, because we have already seen a metafilter post that links to an eerily similar site. This is a transparent attempt to drive up ad revenue by displaying famous pictures, lifting content from other sites, and sloppily pasting them together with a bunch of ads. Hell, look at the very first one ("Afghan Girl") - they didn't even bother to change the font when they lifted content description from another site. The fact that the pictures and accompanying stories are powerful does not negate the fact that this site is a lazy, sloppy, shameless ad farm.

By: Durn Bronzefist

Durn Bronzefist — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:08:29 -0800

Just want to pop in to say how happy I am that there are captions to go along with these, unlike the Olympic photo post the other day, which still has me scratching my head at some of the pics. The comments, though -- why why why would you even attempt to read them? Has Youtube not taught us all the lesson by now?

By: googly

googly — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:54:49 -0800

OK, I'm going to amend my opinion. This is a complete piece of shit website. Its poorly written and designed, and is so obviously an ad-generating piece of crap that I can't believe anybody here takes it at face value. I decided to go back and actually research it a bit, and here's what I found. I picked a few photos at random and followed up a bit. The Boston Fire. Text is lifted, uncited, completely from here. Afghan Girl. Lifts one paragraph of text, uncited, from here. Lunchtime atop a Skyscraper. Text lifted, uncited, from wikipedia. Starving Child Stalked by Vulture. Photo credited to "Kevin Carte" not Kevin Carter. Text is poorly written and incorrectly states that he committed suicide 3 months after taking the shot; he actually committed suicide more than a year after, as could be verified by even a cursory look at the wikipedia entry that the site links to. (Actually, it doesn't link to wikipedia - it links right back to itself). I could go on, but I needn't. Its a crap site.

By: Durn Bronzefist

Durn Bronzefist — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:14:30 -0800

I can't believe anybody here takes it at face value. I like the pictures and was grateful for the captions. I didn't notice any advertising, but I basically see through that stuff. What's not to take "at face value"? I get the complaints but I don't understand your particular comment at all.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:15:36 -0800

I think I recall the Kevin Carter thing already being hashed out here before. He couldn't do anything, there simply was no food. Even at the relief stations they were over capacity and the people were starving there instead of the middle of nowhere. This all from memory of what someone else posted. So what I'm getting at is if you're going to make such assertions of superiority maybe you should get the full back story first? Here's what i found: Yep. If I remember correctly, at the nearbye famine relief section there were dozens of people dying every hour. Had he brought the girl to the center, it would probably not have helped her. Nonetheless, it's impossible not to want that little girl's last moments on earth to have been an experience of compassion, rather than bewilderment and abandonment. posted by Astro Zombie at 4:28 PM on March 5, 2006 [+] [!]

By: googly

googly — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:10:00 -0800

I like the pictures and was grateful for the captions. I didn't notice any advertising, but I basically see through that stuff. What's not to take "at face value"? I get the complaints but I don't understand your particular comment at all. Well, let me see if I can be a bit clearer: This site takes images, some of which are in the public domain and some of which aren't, and aggregates them. This, in itself, is not a bad thing, provided that the site adds value in one of several ways: (1) It aggregates them in a unique, original, thoughtful, or useful way. (2) It adds some kind of original content, such as novel or informative captions, commentary, or helpful interface. (3) It brings the content to people who otherwise might not have seen it. But the site doesn't do any of these things. Specifically: (1) It is just a list of famous pictures, and its single apparent filter - that they "changed the world" - is laughable at best. A number of these aren't even "pictures at all - e.g., the 911 attacks and JFK assassination. Famous events? Yes. History-making pictures? No. And how did the frozen Niagara Falls picture change the world? (2) It adds almost nothing original. The captions are stolen from other sites, and the ones that aren't obviously stolen are factually incorrect and extraordinarily poorly written. The interface is nothing special, and is designed to maximize ad revenue. The pictures themselves are seldom of particularly good quality. (3) It brings absolutely no new content to anyone, merely replicating a number of other sites in form and content. The site presents itself as an original, novel aggregation of "photos that changed the world." If you believe that - if you take it at face value - you will overlook the fact that it is not novel, it is not original, it blatantly steals content, and it isn't even a collection of photos.

By: CharlotteSarah

CharlotteSarah — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:31:47 -0800

Heartbreaking. Very real and honest photos.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:59:09 -0800

Your Grandmom Banged Two Of Those Construction Workers Who Ate Lunch On That Skyscraper