Comments on: Sarah Palin as McCain's running-mate

Sarah Palin as McCain's running-mate

HaloMan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:52:01 -0800

Fox, the BBC and CNN have all revealed that Republican US presidential candidate John McCain has picked Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate on his 72nd birthday on the eve of the start of Republican National Convention. Despite being wildly popular in Alaska, Palin has recently been involved in an investigation over whether she dismissed a public safety commissioner because he refused to dismiss her former brother-in-law.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:57:33 -0800

Palin comparison. Too easy.

By: b1tr0t

b1tr0t — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:57:37 -0800

Could she be a political bridge builder?

By: yonation

yonation — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:58:15 -0800

a bitty?

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:58:17 -0800

That CNN link is strong.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:59:28 -0800

In 2005, before Palin ran for office, the Palin family accused [ex-brother-in-law]Wooten of drinking a beer while in his patrol car, illegal hunting and firing a Taser at his 11-year-old stepson. The Palins also claimed Wooten threatened to kill Sarah Palin's father. Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

By: Happy Dave

Happy Dave — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:59:47 -0800

Wait, wait, one of the Pythons has been....? Oh, sorry. I'll get me coat.

By: zardoz

zardoz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:59:59 -0800

You beat me to the punch, though this FPP is better than mine would've been! Never heard of this woman, but it's a smart strategy if only to attract those couple-of-million or so PUMAs, the Clintonites who won't vote for Obama. (Not to be confused with cougars, btw).

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:12 -0800

Oooww, this is gonna be fun to watch at Alegre's Corner. (Alegre being a Hillary dead-ender whose fervent support of Hillary has been eclipsed by her hate for Obama, ostensibly out of love for Hillary.)

By: DU

DU — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:41 -0800

All snark aside: History is now guaranteed to be made in November. (Perhaps a silver lining in one case, though.)

By: plexi

plexi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:01:48 -0800

McCain wants to siphon the disgruntled/woman scorned Hillary vote, I guess. Obama's speech last night was incredibly moving. America, such an amazing, wonderful place, would do well to elect Obama. He is the dream realized.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:02:54 -0800

It'll be interesting to see how successful the strategy of trying to siphon off -- or at least create some cognitive dissonance in -- disappointed Hillary supporters will be. My guess is that even the most bitter Hillary supporters won't pull the lever for someone as pro-life as Palin apparently is.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:05 -0800

who?

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:20 -0800

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:03:25 -0800

She admits that she used marijuana when it was legal in Alaska, but says that she did not like it.

By: the jam

the jam — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:04:11 -0800

By: Poolio

Poolio — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:06:02 -0800

She was a heartbeat away from being Miss Alaska.

By: Muffpub

Muffpub — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:06:35 -0800

First black president or first female vice president? That's awesome. My two cents, since that's what this thread is I guess: in comparison to Biden, who seems to have been picked for his expertise and experience, Palin seems like the ultimate ploy to hack the vote demographically - women, younger voters, the base - that seems really off to me. Shouldn't we be thinking now more than ever about who is ready to lead this country on day one, not who can get elected? It all just looks like such a nakedly political move to me in a way that Biden's selection really didn't come off as. Then again, I'm just another rabid Obama fan in our little echo chamber here, so I don't think the campaign cares what I think

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:06:41 -0800

Movin' water wiv a bukkit? That's Palin.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:06:57 -0800

She admits that she used marijuana when it was legal in Alaska, but says that she did not like it. At least she inhaled.

By: Jeanne

Jeanne — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:07:01 -0800

All the presidents and VPs in US history have been white and male. That is guaranteed to change this January, barring some freak occurrence, and I think that's awesome. But is the Christian right really going to accept a mother with a 5-month-old infant going on the campaign trail? I've known too many who think that mothers shouldn't be working at all, or at least not till the kids are in school. And there's no way she's prepard to take over if McCain dies.

By: plexi

plexi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:07:06 -0800

McCain/Palin: Do it for your ovaries.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:07:21 -0800

She was crowned Miss Wasilla in 1984 and was a runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant.

By: The Bellman

The Bellman — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:07:21 -0800

What's the over/under on how long it takes McCain to flip-flop on his position on drilling in ANWAR? He currently claims to be opposed. She is for. Hmmm... who do you think will win? Not the oil companies, surely?

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:09:27 -0800

Sarah and Todd Palin have five children: boys Track, 19, and Trig, 4 months, and daughters Bristol, 17, Willow, 13, and Piper, 7. Dear GOD! Vice Presidents don't get to NAME anything, do they?!

By: mjthomas

mjthomas — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:10:10 -0800

Her?

By: loquax

loquax — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:10:25 -0800

So Hillary was cheering for Obama to lose so she can have her run in 2012. Now what? If Obama loses, You have McCain for 4-8 years, then you have to run against Palin, another woman and the sitting Vice President. Not only does this cinch the election for McCain, it completely screws over and buries Clinton. Her dream of being the first female President just got a lot harder.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:10:35 -0800

Oh my god, really? Really? Look, to be fair, I was halfway through a post last night on my own site about how ridiculous I though all the hard-right Freepers/Cornerites/etc. were harping about Palin. She was basically their new Fred Thompson. But I am seriously dumbfounded that they would have been this stupid. Don’t get me wrong, on a PR level this is masterful for McCain. He’s killed all the momentum and press coverage about Obama’s amazing speech last night. So I really am amazed they think that one shot at gaining the press advantage was worth the most unbelievably inept VP pick I could have possibly imagined. Forget even among fields of conservatives in general: is anyone from the McCain camp going to make a convincing case that Palin is remotely close to the most qualified woman in the GOP to be a heartbeat away from taking over a guy who turns 72 today and has a history of cancer? She has been governor- for 18 months- of a state with a population smaller than Obama’s state senate district in Illinois. Her previous office was the mayor of an Alaskan town with a population smaller than 3,000 people. At the very minimum, Obama has sat in on foreign policy sessions and dealt with national and international issues on the floor of the U.S. Senate. Palin has no foreign policy experience. This is literally one step above giving the slot to the winner of a game show. So in what I can only perceive as a complete fit of insanity, McCain has decided to destroy with one pick the three talking points he had as an advantage over Obama: Experience: She has none. Palin is utterly unqualified to be president of the U.S. Senate, let alone the country should anything befall McCain. Celebrity: She’s a former beauty pageant winner who’s done multiple cover shoots for fashion and culture magazines and her claim to fame is being the subject of an article titled “America’s Hottest Governor.” There will be more talk about how she’s attractive than her actual policy credentials. Her gender, in light of her utter political weakness, will be seen blatantly- and rightly- as the novelty McCain picked it for. There is no clearer a celebrity pick for McCain than this one. Moderate Female Voters: Putting aside for a moment that she's outrageously anti-choice, if McCain truly believes that what really appeals to middle-age working-class white women is a younger, prettier, but amazingly less-qualified woman getting the promotion that Hillary Clinton didn’t, then I can’t really reflect any greater how utterly deaf to the interests of women the Republican Party is. Jesus tap-dancing Christ. If McCain wanted a former beauty queen with no experience and a criminal investigation on her record I don’t know why he didn’t just pick his own wife.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:10:41 -0800

Very smart choice by McCain. I mean, sure, nobody knows anything about her, but she covers his biggest flaws: too old, and more of the same. Honestly, is there anyone else he could have picked that anyone would be excited about at all? (Although, the talking heads are going to have a field day with the beauty queen angle.)

By: Harry

Harry — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:10:55 -0800

I have this dreadful feeling that America *will* vote for ~~four~~ eight years more of McBush. Obama seems a bit too good to be true, and a adding a somewhat 'progressive' (if an anti-abortion, life-time member of NRA can be called that) swing to his campaign... my somewhat bitter money is on McCain winning this thing. Also, she (hopefully unfairly) reminds me of Mrs. Kitty Farmer from Donnie Darko.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:11:49 -0800

Twenty bucks says Lorne Michaels gets Tina Fey to play her on SNL. It's uncanny!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:12:28 -0800

Hah! I can't wait until the former Hillary supporters decide that having two X chromosomes is more important than any conceivable position on the issues. Four more years! 100 more years of war! Woohoo! What's Bizzare is that some of the really hard-core Hillary types have been demanding that Obama not pick any other woman. Sarah Palin is totally out of left Feild, some people were expecting McCain to pick Kay Bailey Hutchison or even Meg Whitman, along with the usual suspects of Pawlenty or Lieberman or Tom Ridge. I don't know that much about Palin, I do know she got into office after defeating seriously corrupt incumbent (Lisa Merkowski's father, IIRC) in the republican primary.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:12:40 -0800

Shouldn't we be thinking now more than ever about who is ready to lead this country on day one, not who can get elected? Don't be silly. I'd take a milf over smarmy Joe Biden any day.

By: zardoz

zardoz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:14:32 -0800

Might as well start: ...and this spring she gave birth to her fifth child, who was found to have Down syndrome. Uh-huh. 44 years old and four kids aren't enough? Did she not get the memo about the high chance of Down's Syndrome for babies born by older (over 35 I believe) women? I imagine wanting to have as many kids as possible has something to do with her religious beliefs. Probably everything to do with her religious beliefs. The investigation outlined in that last link sounds like an episode of COPS. Real class act we got here. She is easy on the eyes, though, which can only help her TV presence. And yes, she really was Miss Congeniality. No, really.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:14:33 -0800

And there's no way she's prepard to take over if McCain dies. I've heard this from a number of times already, and I don't think the Obama supporters making this claim realize how ridiculous it sounds coming from them. Four years as a Senator is plenty of experience, but two years of governorship? No way she's prepared.

By: djgh

djgh — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:14:43 -0800

MCCAIN CHOOSES YOUNGER WOMAN. Cindy said to be worried.

By: sy

sy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:15:14 -0800

I question the wisdom of this choice from a McCain perspective. You'll get some PUMAs, sure, but it severely undercuts the Republicans' main line of attack against Obama: that he's not experienced enough. Has Palin ever been outside of the country? Met a foreign leader? Also: how long before we see footage of the Miss Alaska pageant juxtaposed with a scary attack-ad narrator reminding Americans that the presidency is "not a beauty pageant"?

By: DU

DU — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:15:37 -0800

Not only does this cinch the election for McCain... What. she ~~covers~~accentuates his biggest flaws: too old, FTFY

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:16:10 -0800

In a near 50/50 split, all the Republicans would need is a bunch of crooked voting machines.

By: Harry

Harry — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:16:18 -0800

I heard they are sending Palin to Russia to sort out this war! That would be a weird scoop

By: flashboy

flashboy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:16:31 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator."

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:16:40 -0800

In a near 50/50 split, all the Republicans would need is a small number of Hillary supporters who cared more about what Hillary represented than her policies to switch over. The man is crazy like a fox. That's what Im thinking. A lot of women who may reluctantly vote Democrat or who dont usually vote will come out in droves to vote for another women, solely on gender. If that gets McCain an extra half percent in 2 or 3 strategic states then he just won. I think this is a genius move. I feel that Obama just lost or that this race will be decided on a razor thin margin.

By: hydrophonic

hydrophonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:17:32 -0800

Clearly McCain's got a thing for beauty queens.

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:17:52 -0800

Wait, what... McCain selected Harriet Myers as his VP?

By: Harry

Harry — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:11 -0800

I have that same dread. But maybe (just maybe) Obama can actually get the younger demographic to come out and !(@!& vote on what is probably the most important elected position on this planet.

By: randomination

randomination — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:15 -0800

According to Wikipedia she eats moose burgers. Recipe here

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:17 -0800

Two years ago she was the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (named after a pagan god), pop. 8,471.

By: plexi

plexi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:21 -0800

experience: She has none. Palin is utterly unqualified to be president of the U.S. Senate, let alone the country should anything befall McCain. She’s a former beauty pageant winner who’s done multiple cover shoots for fashion and culture magazines Take a gander at Fox News sometime. Do you think any of those peroxide blondes have ever taken a journalism course? Joe Republican wants gays to stay in San Francisco, a closet full of guns, and a TV full of war and pretty women. If "experience" or "qualifications' were any sort of requirement Republicans would never win.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:22 -0800

Four years as a Senator is plenty of experience, but two years of governorship? No way she's prepared. No, four years as a U.S. Senator plus eight years as a State Senator is more prepared than 18 months of governorship and six years as the mayor of a town smaller than your average community college. Can we be done with this one now?

By: psmealey

psmealey — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:18:31 -0800

Looks like a pretty naked attempt to go after the Ellen Jamesian Society vote -- voters so blinded with anger and bitterness about the primary loss to Obama, that they'll vote for McCain just out of spite, even against the exhortations of their own messiah -- on McCain's part. I do not think that this cohort is statistically significant in anyway, so it won't work. It's a blown opportunity for McCain. I was really hoping for Lieberman, if for no other reason than for an opportunity to see both of these demagogic jackasses run out of the country on a rail come November.

By: twsf

twsf — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:19:44 -0800

I gather she hates bears.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:20:23 -0800

Uh-huh. 44 years old and four kids aren't enough? Did she not get the memo about the high chance of Down's Syndrome for babies born by older (over 35 I believe) women? I imagine wanting to have as many kids as possible has something to do with her religious beliefs. Probably everything to do with her religious beliefs. Sarah Palin appears to be an inexperienced politician chosen primarily for short-sighted demographic appeal. But (imho, of course) it's completely distasteful to criticize her for wanting to have children, or for having the misfortunate to have a disabled child. Quite frankly, I found her quoted response about her child in the Wikipedia article:

"I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection," Palin said. "Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?"

To be quite inspiring.

By: lunit

lunit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:20:37 -0800

Wow. If there was any doubt that this whole election is about identity politics, that's pretty much gone now. Problem is - McCain is old. Are Republicans really going to be okay with this woman as President? He's playing to the undecideds, here, but he risks losing his Republican base. I heard that he might pick her on NPR this morning. The only clue? Someone had updated the wikipedia article about her and then quickly changed it back....

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:21:07 -0800

Thank you.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:22:06 -0800

It's gonna take a lot of popcorn and beer and a real comfortable chair to sit and watch the next few months.....

By: notmydesk

notmydesk — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:22:06 -0800

"I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection," Palin said. "Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?" "Thank God he's not gay, amirite?" she added.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:23:07 -0800

Celebrity: She’s a former beauty pageant winner who’s done multiple cover shoots for fashion and culture magazines and her claim to fame is being the subject of an article titled “America’s Hottest Governor.” There will be more talk about how she’s attractive than her actual policy credentials. Her gender, in light of her utter political weakness, will be seen blatantly- and rightly- as the novelty McCain picked it for. There is no clearer a celebrity pick for McCain than this one. I also wonder if that's going to seriously backfire with the PUMA types as well, I mean if these older women are upset about all the men that they feel have gotten an easier time in life because of their gender, how are they going to feel about a beautiful woman getting ahead based on her looks, rather then her "hard work". Hillary was never about good looks and glamor. I mean I don't know at all, but I imagine that some of those women are going to feel that she was picked for her looks, since she really doesn't have much experience. Certainly doesn't compare to Biden or even Obama himself.

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:24:40 -0800

I've heard this from a number of times already, and I don't think the Obama supporters making this claim realize how ridiculous it sounds coming from them. Four years as a Senator is plenty of experience, but two years of governorship? No way she's prepared. From wikipedia: Palin's experience: After being selected as the runner up in the 1984 Miss Alaska contest, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska City Council from 1992 to 1996, was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996, and ran unsuccessfully for Lieutenant Governor in 2002. After charging ethical violations by state Republican Party leaders,[2] she won election in 2006 by first defeating the incumbent governor in the Republican primary, then a former Democratic Alaskan governor in the general election. Obama's experience: A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review, Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. Following an unsuccessful bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2000, he announced his campaign for the U.S. Senate in January 2003. After a primary victory in March 2004, Obama delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004. He was elected to the Senate in November 2004 with 70% of the vote. As a member of the Democratic minority in the 109th Congress, he helped create legislation to control conventional weapons and to promote greater public accountability in the use of federal funds. He also made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. During the 110th Congress, he helped create legislation regarding lobbying and electoral fraud, climate change, nuclear terrorism, and care for returned U.S. military personnel. After announcing his presidential campaign in February 2007, Obama emphasized withdrawing American troops from Iraq, energy independence, decreasing the influence of lobbyists, and promoting universal health care as top national priorities. Who sounds more qualified to be President?

By: argybarg

argybarg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:25:28 -0800

She's a spokesmodel for the conservative right. It's a smart, if revolting, pick.

By: infinitywaltz

infinitywaltz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:25:30 -0800

I don't like Sarah Palin. I admit it's something of a pet issue of mine, but her wildlife management practices in Alaska are horrible. After Alaskan voters voted against aerial hunting of wolves, she went against the will of the people by adding a bounty for wolf kills. I'm sick to death of this entire "presidential race" and I wish they could just get things over with and let the Republicans steal the election now so we can all go back to our lives already.

By: wabbittwax

wabbittwax — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:25:57 -0800

How tough will Joe Biden be able to get on her in the debate without people calling him a sexist pig? (Notwithstanding his voting record and the whole violence against women legislation thing or anything that actually makes sense)

By: Fuzzy Skinner

Fuzzy Skinner — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:26:09 -0800

Who sounds more qualified to be President? posted by Fuzzy Monster Hyuk. Garsh. The purdy one!!!

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:26:38 -0800

I also wonder if that's going to seriously backfire with the PUMA types as well, I mean if these older women are upset about all the men that they feel have gotten an easier time in life because of their gender, how are they going to feel about a beautiful woman getting ahead based on her looks, rather then her "hard work". Hey, in John McCain's time, this was social progress.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:27:26 -0800

> In a near 50/50 split, all the Republicans would need is a bunch of crooked voting machines. You're living in the past, Fuzzy Monster. It's just like that rainforest scare a few years back. Our officials saw there was a problem and they fixed it, didn't they?

By: Rhaomi

Rhaomi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:28:15 -0800

"I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" -- Sarah Palin, on being the possible vice presidential nominee

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:28:37 -0800

Bumbling, old senator as President, and the hot, young moose-burger-eating Governor from Alaska as VP? I've got a great idea for a sitcom.

By: hydrophonic

hydrophonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:28:48 -0800

I can't wait for the VP debates. "Governor Palin, Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U.S. on a world map. Why do you think this is?"

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:29:02 -0800

Remember when GHWB picked Dan Quale as his Vice Presidential running mate? People have been saying ever since that it was a misstep. This is an even bigger misstep and John McCain doesn't have the horsepower and momentum to overcome such an obviously poor choice. Experience and judgement indeed.

By: geekyguy

geekyguy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:29:06 -0800

Rhaomi: ""I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" -- Sarah Palin, on being the possible vice presidential nominee" Source please.

By: grapefruitmoon

grapefruitmoon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:29:46 -0800

I've had this nagging fear all along that McCain was going to win no matter what Obama did. Now I know he is. This is indeed a brilliant PR move and yes, this election is historic no matter what. *sigh* The first woman VP is pretty awesome. I just wish it could be from a campaign that wasn't going to flush America further down the toilet.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:29:52 -0800

LONGBOAT VEEP

By: photoslob

photoslob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:30:40 -0800

come again?

By: zardoz

zardoz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:31:18 -0800

But (imho, of course) it's completely distasteful to criticize her for wanting to have children, or for having the misfortunate to have a disabled child. I am criticizing her for wanting to have children, but what does that have to do with having a disabled child? Please don't conflate these two things. I think it is a fair criticism to question a woman who is 44 years of age, and therefore more likely to have a disabled child. Her decision to have a child in the first place put the child at risk before he/she was even born. I dunno, maybe I'm cranky at the motives of religious types these days, but just because someone wants to be a mother doesn't automatically make it a good idea.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:31:49 -0800

Shouldn't we be thinking now more than ever about who is ready to lead this country on day one, not who can get elected? It all just looks like such a nakedly political move to me in a way that Biden's selection really didn't come off as. What are you talking about? The McCain camp has critized Obama as being too young and inexperienced in foreign policy, and not ready to lead, so Obama chose someone who can offset those charges -- someone who is old and experienced and has lots of foreign policy experience. Of course it was a political move to pick him. Pick the person who can most help you win the election. I mean, duh. Obama's camp has critized McCain for being old and stuffy and too much like George Bush, and one of McCain's biggest weaknesses is in not being seen as someone who will bring about change, someone who cares about little people, someone who will bring in the breath of fresh air that Obama is seen as. Palin could not be further from George Bush and Washington. She has the same youth that Obama has and McCain lacks. She is a big reformer in Alaska, and is supposedly the most popular Governor in the US. The fact that she may appeal to the ex-Hillary voters is frankly a brilliantly political move. And it reinforces his reputation as a maverick, something the Democrats have been trying to erase during the convention. I don't usually mind it, and I guess I don't mind it so much in this thread, either, but it is clear to me that Metafilter is so partisan that it can't really view election issues clearly or with any distance. This was a really smart move for McCain, as long as she doesn't have something in her past that will come back to bite him. This next week and the Republican convention might be tough for Democrats.

By: gerryblog

gerryblog — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:11 -0800

I've gathered some immediate reactions from around the liberal blogosphere, illustrated by pictures of faceless, featureless DC Comics superheroine The Question.

By: argybarg

argybarg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:15 -0800

I'll work my fingers to the bone for Obama, but this is depressing. Palin is good shtick -- imagine the convention address, the mooseburger recipes, etc. She'll be a horrible VP, but she's politically good pick.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:25 -0800

pardonyou? writes "'I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection,' Palin said. 'Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?'" Lots of Rupublican compassion for an extra chromosome, not so much for men born liking show-tunes and cock.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:27 -0800

Well, they won with Quayle.

By: jleisek

jleisek — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:33 -0800

My $1.99 opinion: It's a desperation move. Someone who can make the ticket look younger and whom they hope will pull just enough PUMA votes away from the Obama-Biden ticket. I also think they are hoping her looks and personality will take some of the attention off McCain. Clearly, they are tightly managing his interviews and appearances...and for good reason!

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:32:51 -0800

Her previous office was the mayor of an Alaskan town with a population smaller than 3,000 people. The GOP is sick of your lies. The town has 8,000 people now!

By: Rhaomi

Rhaomi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:33:51 -0800

geekyguy: "Source please." Here you go. (@2:50)

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:33:53 -0800

"Thank God he's not gay, amirite?" she added. Joke acknowledged, but she's not as conservative on that issue as you might think (which may actually end up causing a problem with ultra-conservatives): She opposes same-sex marriage, but she has stated that she has gay friends and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination. While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with a state Supreme Court order and signed them into law...Palin's first veto was used to block legislation that would have barred the state from granting benefits to gay state employees and their partners. In effect, her veto granted State of Alaska benefits to same-sex couples. The veto occurred after Palin consulted with Alaska's attorney general on the constitutionality of the legislation on preview: same point to orthogonality

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:34:55 -0800

This was a really smart move for McCain, as long as she doesn't have something in her past that will come back to bite him. oops!. This is a desperation pick folks.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:36:03 -0800

P-A-N-D-E-R-I-N-G.

By: SeizeTheDay

SeizeTheDay — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:36:55 -0800

brilliant pick; even more brilliant given the fact that many, many Hillary voters saw Hillary as a step in the direction of women's rights. These voters aren't policy voters; they're visceral voters. That's why people still don't understand why Kerry lost in 2004. Voters are more visceral than most think; instead of fighting that ( like dems do), repulicans embrace it, and win. Our voting populace may be stupid, and we may elect corrupt bastards, but Dems have been so inept at understanding voter thinking that they think they'll win on the issues. McCain has such a great shot now.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:38:02 -0800

The smartest thing that McCain has done so far. Kudos to him for not selecting the "obvious" choices (Pawlenty, Ridge, etc). Palin brings energy, "youth," interesting background, and personality to the campaign.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:38:05 -0800

Palin faces probe. That just sounds naisty!

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:38:23 -0800

>Lots of Rupublican compassion for an extra chromosome, not so much for men born liking show-tunes and cock. What? Where is this gay gene? Science explains homosexuality as being sourced for a slew of issues and we have seen that twins with identical DNA do not fall into the same sex preference. Its highly highly disingenuous to compare down's syndrome to homosexuality. That doesnt make homosexuality a choice, but we cant keep spreading the convenient lie that its no different than downs or hemophilia for bullshit political points. It makes your side look bad. Real bad.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:38:27 -0800

This is a desperation pick folks. Well, to be fair, Palin is former a former member of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. So I guess her energy platform will be using flop sweat as a renewable resource. Good god I am peeing myself waiting for the debate with Biden now.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:39:35 -0800

This is a new era in American history. No matter who wins, a long-standing barrier will be broken. At long last, a non-contiguous state will be represented in the White House! If only Eisenhower was still here to see the realization of his beautiful dream. *sniff*

By: mjthomas

mjthomas — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:40:03 -0800

Source please. Via Politico: Larry Kudlow of CNBC’s “Kudlow & Co.” asked her about the possibility of becoming McCain's ticket mate. Palin replied: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.” On preview: Rhaomi found the vid.

By: Mcable

Mcable — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:40:53 -0800

I've been carrying on a conversation with my sister all morning about who we wanter to see as McCain's VP. (we're both liberal Democrats.) My best-case scenario for Dems was Palin: 1. The Repubs just lost the "Obama hasn't got the experience" issue, 2. I can't wait to see her head to head against Biden in the debates. 3. I've always thought the PUMA issue was BS. Now McCain looks like he's pandering.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:41:18 -0800

I guess McCain gets to put his "Maverick" hat back on.

By: lunit

lunit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:43:20 -0800

Hey! Here's a female politician it's okay to hate! And she's pretty! Let's break out the sexism!

By: sour cream

sour cream — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:43:57 -0800

It really doesn't matter who John McCain picks. John McCain could choose a former beauty queen from Alaska as a running mate and he'd still win this election. Wait...

By: C.Batt

C.Batt — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:44:11 -0800

Weird, just weird. So far, this is the most confusing moment in this election cycle. The effects of this are unpredictable. It's like Obama upped the ante on the turn last night, forcing McCain, down on chips and with a mediocre hand, to decide whether to give up a substantial pot or gamble and go all in. This is McCain going all in.

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:44:24 -0800

This was a really smart move for McCain I can't disagree with this more. She is a political lightweight, is in no way qualified to be president, and this decision will completely torpedo John McCain's claim to good judgement and the value of experience. If she makes the mistake of attempting to take Biden on in a debate, she will be utterly humiliated. Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? Just you wait.

By: Mcable

Mcable — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:44:30 -0800

On preview: XQUZYPHYR nailed it.

By: Mcable

Mcable — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:46:22 -0800

Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? Just you wait. I'd love to hear Biden say this: "I knew Dan Quayle. I served in the senate with Dan Quayle. You are no Dan Quayle."

By: gerryblog

gerryblog — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:46:24 -0800

On preview: XQUZYPHYR nailed it. Seriously.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:30 -0800

when did Alaska become a state? I thought it was still a territory.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:40 -0800

No, this is not good for Biden in the debates. Mitt Romney or Tim Pawlenty, Biden could have wiped the floor with, no holds barred. But where are people's sympathies going to lie when they see an angry old man yelling at the nice, pretty hockey mom who only had a few weeks to get ready before being thrust into the national spotlight?

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:48:14 -0800

I guess Susan Collins, Christie Todd Whitman, Oympia Snowe, and Elizabeth Dole were busy.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:48:23 -0800

"I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" Well, to be fair no one really knows what the V.P does every day, it's kind of a job you get to define in your own terms with the President. On the one hand you have Cheney, on the other you have Quayle. Some are powerful, some are not.

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0800

Or... "I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine...."

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:48:47 -0800

Hillary voters saw Hillary as a step in the direction of women's rights. These voters aren't policy voters; they're visceral voters. That's why people still don't understand why Kerry lost in 2004. Voters are more visceral than most think; instead of fighting that ( like dems do), repulicans embrace it, and win. Hillary voters didn't just vote for a woman, they voted for Hillary Clinton. There's a big difference. Many of them have been following her political career for over a decade, and won't be likely to jump ship to some other woman in politics. If she campaigns strongly against Palin, she has a very good chance of defusing this momentum. And as far as visceral, GWB won in 2004 off of the Evangelical vote. Many of those same people voted for Huckabee in the primaries this year rather than McCain. And many of those same people probably don't like the idea of having a woman president. I think this pick will lose more voters for McCain than it gains.

By: a3matrix

a3matrix — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:49:08 -0800

It's gonna take a lot of popcorn and beer and a real comfortable chair to sit and watch the next few months..... indeed! LOL

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:49:40 -0800

pardonyou? writes "on preview: same point to orthogonality" Point taken, thanks for the correction. But note I said "Republican compassion", not "Palin's compassion". Now, since she's pro-life but doesn't hate the gays, so it'll be interesting to see how the Fundies (who don't much like McCain) react to his choice. If he's gained Hillary dead-endrs with Palin but further eroded th Republican base's support, is this a net gain? I mean, the Fundie base will man your phonebanks and vote. I can't see most of the Hillary dead-enders (other than the public faces of PUMA, who are probably mainly Republican operatives anyway) manning, er, womanning the phone banks. They might vote McCain to spite Obama, but they aren't going to make phone calls for an anti-choice candidate.

By: fusinski

fusinski — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:50:14 -0800

I can't fathom anyone actually buying into this crap. What a joke.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:52:28 -0800

What a weird choice. An unknown, inexperienced woman from the back of beyond, tainted with the whiff of scandal. The Republicans either don't want to be elected (can't blame them; the mess that needs to be cleaned up is horrifying) or are so cock-sure about cheating themselves into rule that they can mock the electorate.

By: DU

DU — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:52:34 -0800

She is a political lightweight... One wonders how fast she'll be on her feet in front of the national press. Can she take a curveball with both feet out of her mouth?

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:52:47 -0800

But, can she spell 'potato?'

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:53:55 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator." "Juneau." "No, I DON'T know—that's why I'm asking!"

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:54:05 -0800

Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina, and Condoleeza Rice were busy, too.

By: quin

quin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:54:09 -0800

Good god I am peeing myself waiting for the debate with Biden now. I was thinking the exact same thing. His experience and ability to quickly cut deep with his words? It's going to be like watching a fight between an attack dog and a balloon.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:56:01 -0800

If Hilary campaigns against Palin, going on record as to why Palin is no substitute for herself and that one is better to vote Obama, I doubt there's going to be much crossover voting.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:58:09 -0800

But where are people's sympathies going to lie when they see an angry old man yelling at the nice, pretty hockey mom who only had a few weeks to get ready before being thrust into the national spotlight? There is no way he'll yell. He won't intimidate and he won't push hard. Quiet gravitas and appeals to experience, the very themes McCain has been hammering home as essential to this election, will be enough to wilt this pick. Seriously, you have to wonder what these people are thinking. They push the celebrity line and then McCain undercuts it with his seven homes stumble. They push the experience line and McCain undercuts it by picking a running mate with next to no experience. The underlying anxiety about his candidacy is his age and his fading faculties, a concern which is only exacerbated by this choice. Obama is making decisive moves. He's building an organization and addressing his weaknesses on the national stage. Against that, McCain's campaign begins to look very small. Also, how can Palin ever hope to fill this suit?

By: Perplexity

Perplexity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:58:56 -0800

Why is everyone assuming she'll do so poorly in the debates? Because she's a pretty woman?

By: kid ichorous

kid ichorous — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:59:51 -0800

lunit: Wow. If there was any doubt that this whole election is about identity politics, that's pretty much gone now. In spite of the disagreeable fractiousness of identity politics, which feels like the play-at-home version of corporate special interests, I sense something else in picks like this - a refined political theater that decouples the identity from the politics. That they can win public approval by fulfilling the pattern of "first woman X" without substantively bending to any associated policy is now obvious to them - I submit the Bush administration's very own Black female Secretary of State. Others have already pointed out Palin's stance on abortion. It's worse than voting for someone who looks like me because I expect preferential representation. It's voting for someone who looks like me for the sympathetic magic, for the drama, for the vicarious hell of it.

By: merelyglib

merelyglib — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:59:57 -0800

"All the presidents and VPs in US history have been white and male." Yes, and if I'm remembering right, so have all the first ladies. Palin's husband is Yupik.

By: feloniousmonk

feloniousmonk — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:00:00 -0800

As long as Biden can maintain the "hate the sin, not the sinner" approach that was (imho) well established during the convention, he ought to be able to attack her as firmly on the issues as he would've Romney or Pawlenty.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:00:20 -0800

Why is everyone assuming she'll do so poorly in the debates? Because she's a pretty woman? Why do you assume that's the only basis on which to doubt her performance in the debates?

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:00:35 -0800

Here's a female politician it's okay to hate! And she's pretty! Let's break out the sexism! Suggesting that someone is sexist because they don't like the Anti-Choice, creationist person who counts a beauty contest as election experience is like saying that because you don't care for Obama's healthcare plan, you are a racist.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:01:05 -0800

I just took two minutes out of my day to read up on her bio: this person has never had a job. Either this is a joke, or the GOP brass are the only ones in the know that the occupants of the White House are merely trade representatives of USA, Inc., and when it comes to peddling crap, it's better to offer something better to look at than your competition.

By: ericbop

ericbop — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:01:10 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator." "Juneau." "No, I DON'T know—that's why I'm asking!" "Anchorage." "Do you really need encouragement just to answer the question?"

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:02:14 -0800

All the first ladies have been white males?! Well, that explains Eleanor Roosevelt.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:02:18 -0800

Quite frankly, I found her quoted response about her child in the Wikipedia article: "I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection," Palin said. "Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?" To be quite inspiring. Apart from the amazing and apparently unself-conscious irony of this statement in the mouth of a beauty pageant contestant, I'd be more inclined to agree if it weren't for the fact that all people with Down syndrome develop Alzheimer disease in ther forties or early fifties.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:02:39 -0800

I gather she hates bears. She's 100% on the side of oil drillers with keeping polar bears off the endangered species list. Sufficed to say, Palin will not be getting The Sierra Club's endorsement.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:02:48 -0800

This is a really poor choice, IMO. Disgruntled PUMA's were going to vote for McCain anyway, and voters who wanted Clinton because of her history of "being a fighter" and a champion of women's rights are not going to be pleased with obvious pandering. Anyone who has the least concern about electing a 72 year old President is not going to be comforted by the thought of a former Alaskan governor with hardly any experience running the country. I think the campaign shot itself in the foot.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:03:22 -0800

By: enn

enn — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:03:23 -0800

oops!. Are you kidding me? The possible "scandal" is that she might — might — have abused her authority to try to get a cop who drove drunk on the job and tasered his 11-year-old kid fired. I'm sure people are going to be really fucking up in arms over that one. Come the fuck on. If it comes out during the campaign that she did do it, watch her positives jump as the campaign frames her as being hounded by meddling Democratic investigators for taking a bad cop off the street and if she had to bend a few rules to do it, well, that's just how effing mavericky she is ain't it? Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? Just you wait. You mean former vice president Dan Quayle? The guy who won? Or, what onlyconnect said.

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:03:51 -0800

I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the Obama campaign suggested preparing an ad with the video of Palin saying she needs someone to tell her what the VP does and the suggestion was shot down because no way would McCain make such a poor choice. The Hillary supporters are going to be insulted that McCain made such a bad choice just to pander to women. I'm glad that Obama didn't pick Hillary as his VP, but it would have been killer diller to watch Hillary smash Palin in such a one sided debate.

By: Remy

Remy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:03:54 -0800

Why is everyone assuming she'll do so poorly in the debates? Because she's a pretty woman? Yes, it's entirely a sexist thing, and has nothing to do with her lack of experience. Now quick, use the widest brush you have to tar "the left" for being sexist. Is it December yet?

By: Bitter soylent

Bitter soylent — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:04:19 -0800

I heard that there are so few women in Alaska that a "ten" is a four that brings a six-pack.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:05:46 -0800

Trophy running mate? To go with the trophy wife, no?

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:06:05 -0800

I can't believe how many apparent Lefties on this site are so eager to trip over themselves in anguish over this "brilliant" move, like McCain has somehow locked up the election or something with this move. As XQUZYPHYR said, "Really?" Looks like a desperation move to me. What's she bringing to the table other than "woman"? And how is this pick going to bring the Evangelical Right, who already dislike McCain, back into the fold? Folks, this election is not even going to be close. Mark my words.

By: Perplexity

Perplexity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:06:31 -0800

What are the other reasons? Why would lack of experience correlate with being bad at debating?

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:06:58 -0800

[I]t is clear to me that Metafilter is so partisan that it can't really view election issues clearly or with any distance. This was a really smart move for McCain, as long as she doesn't have something in her past that will come back to bite him. This next week and the Republican convention might be tough for Democrats. Palin was named on Veep lists (and future Pres. lists) a year or two ago, but not recently at all. From a purely pragmatic and political standpoint, the female Veep possibilities were "supposed" to be either Meg Whitman or Kay Bailey Hutchinson. The conventional wisdom has been that Palin was off the table because of her ongoing ethics scandal, it would grossly highlight's McCain's age, fallout from McCain's own hammering Obama on the experience/"ready to lead" issue would land on her as well, she adds little following, name-recognition, or clout to the ticket other than being fairly unobjectionable to the Republican base, and Palin herself has not made any deliberate play for or even demonstrated any interest in the position given that she's been busy taking care of her newborn. In short, she was eliminated from virtually all political insiders' first-tier picks for many, many reasons when she was looked at under cold, objective light a number of months ago. "Smart" is definitely overstating the case for choosing Palin, but "desperate" is being too uncharitable. Let's call a spade a spade: Palin as the VP pick would be extremely risky. I think a pick like this would say more about the McCain camp's own view of their current position, the other VP possibilities, and the expected trajectory of the rest of the campaign than anything else. It's not the team sitting on a safe lead that calls for a Hail Mary -- but then again, the play's been known to win many a game. It's not exactly a smart play, but not quite as desperate as an onside kick or faked punt, either. It's a risky, usually unsuccessful maneuver that occasionally reaps massive dividends. Palin means McCain is a gambling man.

By: QIbHom

QIbHom — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:07:05 -0800

An awful lot of you seem to be assuming that women voters are shallow idiots, and that PUMAs are more than an invention of Fox News.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:07:11 -0800

But (imho, of course) it's completely distasteful to criticize her for wanting to have children, or for having the misfortunate to have a disabled child. I think the really pertinent thing here is that her fifth child was born in April 2008, and she returned to work just three days after giving birth. Obama has been a strong critic of the fact that the US is basically the only "first world" nation that fails to provide paid leave for new mothers. I have to wonder what Palin's view on parental leave is, given the example she's set that basically says to mothers "hey, its not that hard. Just go back to work. You can do it if you try hard enough."

By: interrobang

interrobang — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:07:30 -0800

A seemingly brilliant move, but in reality, a 100% cynical choice.

By: gompa

gompa — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:07:42 -0800

Well, if nothing else this clarifies the contours of the crossroads America's arrived at. So which path will it be, America? Which version of yourself will you embrace in this dark hour? Are you the keepers of the bright and perpetual flame of enlightenment values and constitutional democracy, or are you a reality TV show cast handing out free junk food?

By: davar

davar — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:07:55 -0800

zardoz: Her decision to have a child in the first place It is quite likely that she did not decide to have a child, but that she became pregnant. It happens. Whatever the case, it is non of our business. Did you remark on the number of McCains children, and the fact that it is risky to have a child at a later age as a father (he was 55) in the threads about his nomination? I found your Did she not get the memo about the high chance of Down's Syndrome for babies born by older (over 35 I believe) women? incredibly offensive. What exactly do you mean? Women who are older than 35 should not have children? Children with Down's syndrome should not exist? Women who get a child with Down syndrome are somehow stupid?

By: sour cream

sour cream — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:08:18 -0800

It's like Obama upped the ante on the turn last night, forcing McCain, down on chips and with a mediocre hand ... What on earth are you talking about, "down on chips"? For all I know, the media are yapping about how McCain closed the gap in the polls despite the Democratic convention and might be even leading now (although personally, I don't trust the polls and think they are one half skewed and the other half made up on the fly). He's poised to win. quin on Biden: His experience and ability to quickly cut deep with his words? It's going to be like watching a fight between an attack dog and a balloon. And this is why Biden will lose the debates. Nobody likes the attack dog who picked on the pretty girl. It's a situation where Biden cannot possibly score any points. Not that it matters much, since noone would choose Obama just because his VP candidate did good on the debates anyway. The situation is different for McCain, though, since there are enough idiots in the US that will make their choice solely based on gender, race or sexual history of the candidate, completely irregardless of their policy. The Republicans have figured this out better than the Dems.

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:09:10 -0800

Why is everyone assuming she'll do so poorly in the debates? Because she's a pretty woman? No, it's because she doesn't have much experience and doesn't seem to know what the VP even does. That's 10th grade Government class basics, and she wants to BE the VP? Holy cow, McCain is DONE.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:09:28 -0800

I also think the pick reflects McCain's intense displeasure at being upstaged by anyone, particularly his VP choice. And how is this pick going to bring the Evangelical Right, who already dislike McCain, back into the fold? Sarah Palin thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools. She's anti-choice. This is definitely a fundie pander as well.

By: rmmcclay

rmmcclay — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:09:43 -0800

I was going to write something, but XQUZYPHYR, wrote it for me.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:10:31 -0800

More and more, I think the Republican party is deliberately throwing this election. They don't want to do the dirty work of cleaning up after Bush. It's going to be a difficult, costly, unpopular job, and I bet they're counting on the pain it causes to be such that it destroys the Democrats chances for re-election. They're giving up four years in return for twenty. The same seems to be happening in Canada. The Reeeeeform party is out for blood, the intention being to wholly destroy our centrist Liberal party, turning this into a two-party state of extreme right and extreme left views.

By: quin

quin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:13:06 -0800

Why is everyone assuming she'll do so poorly in the debates? Because she's a pretty woman? Remy beat me to it, but it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman and everything to do with Biden having 35 years of experience as an elected official versus her eighteen or so months. Also, Biden has proven repeatedly that he can verbally eviscerate his opposition even when they have years of practice, so unless she has some kind of hidden debate-jujitsu, I'm betting she doesn't fare well against him.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:13:28 -0800

Sour cream: "..completely irregardless of their policy." Fail.

By: krautland

krautland — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:13:51 -0800

this feels a little bit like george mc govern's search for a vice presidential candidate in 1968: ted kennedy declined, sargent shriver was out of reach, walter mondale also said no, abe ribicoff had better things to do, kevin white was vetoed, walter cronkite wasn't asked until it was too late, gaylord nelson refused and by this time around it was down to the guy running the ice cream truck down the street and some obscure senater named tom eagleton nobody seemed to know all that well. we all know how that story turned out: words like landslide and electro-shock-therapy have been used more often than I care to recount. so, dearest barack: you may have a funny name, you may be black, you may be against abortion, you may have a real problem with the hillary crowd but the republicans seem to have acquired a taste for that old dance the democrats have very nearly perfected since the days of good old hapless george mc govern. you may be hopeful. and so am I.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:14:36 -0800

Is the Clinton thing all he's got?

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:14:58 -0800

An awful lot of you seem to be assuming that ~~women~~ voters are shallow idiots If the shoe fits…

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:15:20 -0800

Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? Just you wait. You mean former vice president Dan Quayle? The guy who won? George H W Bush won in spite of picking Quayle as VP. Remember?

By: resurrexit

resurrexit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:16:00 -0800

"brilliant pick; even more brilliant given the fact that many, many Hillary voters saw Hillary as a step in the direction of women's rights. These voters aren't policy voters; they're visceral voters." SeizeTheDay Agreed. But I don't know why everyone's so quick to hate on or even be surprised by the "visceral" women; look at Obama's 90+ to 1 margin among black voters. Is the tribal nature of our politics so surprising to us that we can't move past it?

By: krautland

krautland — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:16:19 -0800

damn... for abortion. I don't even get their pseudo-arguments listed right. I need more sleep.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:17:11 -0800

For all I know, the media are yapping about how McCain closed the gap in the polls despite the Democratic convention and might be even leading now (although personally, I don't trust the polls and think they are one half skewed and the other half made up on the fly). He's poised to win. I don't understand this- McCain's not leading the polls at the moment; convention bounce (if any) won't really be seen until Monday. 78% of women don't know who the heck Sarah Palin is. There hasn't been a single debate, and yet you can confidently state three months before the election that McCain is poised to win?

By: lunit

lunit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:17:45 -0800

Suggesting that someone is sexist because they don't like the Anti-Choice, creationist person who counts a beauty contest as election experience... Ah, but that's not what I suggested. I was referring to how quickly the thread filled with sex jokes. This knee-jerk defensiveness thing is old.

By: krautland

krautland — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:17:49 -0800

George H W Bush won in spite of picking Quayle as VP. Remember? YES. YESYESYES. Oh my god yes.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:19:01 -0800

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:19:36 -0800

Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? No, I think Lloyd Bentsen did it. And still lost by 7 million votes and an 80/20 split of the electoral college. She's a lightweight, yes, but bad VP choices don't lose you an election. Perot grabbed nearly 20 million votes in spite of Stockdale's embarrassing performance. Her abysmal qualifications only means the bar will be set so incredibly low that not killing herself tripping over it will be seen as a monumental achievement. OK, so McCain has put Eddie Gaedel up to bat for him. The Dems can't strike her out. And if she does happen to even touch the ball, it's a veritable home run.

By: well_balanced

well_balanced — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:19:49 -0800

Am I the only one thinking he is going for Laura Roslin and the BSG vote?

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:19:57 -0800

No, it's because she doesn't have much experience and doesn't seem to know what the VP even does. That's not what she said. She said she doesn't know what a VP does from day to day. That's very different from not knowing what a VP's constitutional functions are, and is really not all that ignorant of a question--given the complete lack of powers given to the Vice President by the Constitution, the issue of spending your time usefully is certainly real.

By: loquax

loquax — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:20:01 -0800

George H W Bush won in spite of picking Quayle as VP. Remember? Food for thought. If it hadn't been for H. Ross Perot, Dan Quayle may well have been just settling into his 2nd term as President on 9/11/01.

By: quin

quin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:20:11 -0800

And this is why Biden will lose the debates. Nobody likes the attack dog who picked on the pretty girl. I hadn't considered this angle, but I don't think I completely agree. People have argued for so long that Democrats are soft and ineffectual, it would be a huge tonal shift for them to suddenly argue that the Dems are playing too rough. Not saying they won't try it, though.

By: bobo123

bobo123 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:20:32 -0800

I'm surprised there are no baby boomers in this election. All the candidates were either born before 1945 or after 1960 (Obama is "technically" a baby boomer but he gives the impression of someone younger than 47). You would think this election would have baby boomers represented as they approach 60 and should be at the height of experience without being too old. I wonder if those middle-aged Hillary supporters will like Palin or will they see someone who is closer in age to Lewinsky than them.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:20:43 -0800

>Is the tribal nature of our politics so surprising to us that we can't move past it? Absolutely. Humans will never move past it. its our nature. Never underestime a swing or sometimes voter with something in common with a candidate.

By: Eekacat

Eekacat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:21:20 -0800

For those of you not old enough to have been there, the prevailing thought on the Quayle selection was that he was assassination insurance. People would think twice about killing the President when they saw who was next in line. There were no age or disease issues with George Bush, so the fact that Quayle was inexperienced and generally seen as a silver spooned buffoon wasn't really an issue. He did provide a young face to the ticket, and that was an advantage to counter Bush's experience.

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:22:28 -0800

Think John Connally eviscerated Dan Quayle? No, I think Lloyd Bentsen did it. Duh.

By: Deep Dish

Deep Dish — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:22:39 -0800

So I will give the Canadian guy view - I am only and observer, but I am damn sure not neutral. For people talking about debates, I think Joe Biden is in tough because its going to be a lot harder for him to go on the attack without looking like a jerk. That said, I am not sure the VP debate matters - hard core Republicans who have stuck with them through these last few years are clearly not people who think deep; nothing Biden/Palin could say would change their minds. If Biden plays it safe, and doesn't do anything to alienate his base he can't lose. Biden just has to play defence, and Palin would need a knockout to gain anything. Last night also showed that when Barack Obama decides to go on offence he can do it with an impressive level of precision and authority, his acceptance speech was notable for a number of reason - he is perhaps the best speaker of his generation. Barack can clearly be his own attack dog, if he needs to be and Biden really only needs to face off agains Palin once, so its not that hard to dodge. I don't see this Palin move as a factor. First, Palin's home base is geographically isolated. While Palin may pick off a few Hilary supporters, but I suspect the number of truly disaffected Hilary supporters has been overcounted and magnified by media coverage. Otherwise the Palin selection is a move to appeal to Republican supports, who want to cling to the idea that the Repubs can be fresh-looking, younger, and interesting too but have sufficient powers of denial to ignore the other advantages of the democratic ticket. Palin only becomes a true mainstream political asset on the vote-getting front if she publically declares herself to be anti-war, and talks about being a dove to balance McCain's hawk; I don't see that happening. My prediction today is the same as it was last week. Obama takes the presidential election, by something like 52%-48%. I somehow think a lot of people who normally vote Republican will stay home on election day.

By: IndigoJones

IndigoJones — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:24:01 -0800

More and more, I think the Republican party is deliberately throwing this election. Could well be. On the other hand, hype aside, you could almost think the same of the democrats. I mean to say, it should be shoo in for them, and yet the polls do not show a trouncing. Then again, such a strategy might really be beyond the Men In The Smoke Filled Room. It's not like the old days. Too many ambitious people who really do want to be president. the prevailing thought on the Quayle selection was that he was assassination insurance. Could be true, but for such an outrageous statement, we really do want a citation. "Prevailing thought" too vague.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:24:37 -0800

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:25:57 -0800

Does the VP do something from day to day?

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:27:17 -0800

FFF...I've been saying the same thing for a long time now. Yeah, it's beyond cynical, but it really does fall in-line with the sort of calculations I've come to expect from the Rove-era GOP.

By: athenian

athenian — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:27:35 -0800

I think she's a poor choice and torpedoes McCain's attack line on experience (particularly given his own age and dodgy health) but I don't think the VP line is particularly bad. VPs have in the past taken on different roles, and in context she was trying to do the politician thing of disclaiming a suggested job without implying she didn't want it.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:28:25 -0800

Not according to Sarah Palin: In an interview just a month ago, she dissed the job, saying it didn’t seem “productive.” In fact, she said she doesn’t know what the vice president does. Larry Kudlow of CNBC’s “Kudlow & Co.” asked her about the possibility of becoming McCain's ticket mate. Palin replied: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.”

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:30:09 -0800

"especially for Alaskans"? So what's the general feel for Alaska, are they seen as crazy right-wing pork addicts?

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:30:50 -0800

Am I the only one thinking he is going for Laura Roslin and the BSG vote? No, Margaret Spellings will be president when the robot revolution comes.

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:31:19 -0800

By: batou_

batou_ — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:31:35 -0800

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:33:01 -0800

* munches popcorn * Goddamn, I do love being an American. But sometimes I am not sure why.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:34:37 -0800

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. If McCain wanted a former beauty queen with no experience and a criminal investigation on her record I don’t know why he didn’t just pick his own wife. Like many other goods lines I pick up here, that one is so good I will shamelessly steal it and re-use it elsewhere. ;-)

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:35:03 -0800

You know, I think there's also a very good case to be made that this may motivate Hillary Clinton to work even harder to elect Barack Obama. There's absolutely no way that she would find the idea of a republican female president heartwarming. I think the Obama campaign is pretty pleased with this choice. If that makes you feel good, ok. I don't see it though. So, you think Clinton will be pleased about the thought of Sarah Palin being closer in line to the presidency than she was, just by default of being chosen as the anti-Obama news item?

By: matteo

matteo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:35:14 -0800

I liked Bailey Hutchinson, maybe she had some skeletons that made her a bad choice, I don't know. Palin's a gamble because, obviously, it's silly to select her for a ticket that has made the other side's "inexperience" a huge issue, but if you seriously think that the media will call bullshit on the next thre months of McCain hammering Obama for being inexperienced, you're either too naive or blinded by wishful thinking. George ""I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun" Bush and Dick "other priorities" Cheney, two proven draft dodgers (Cheney even bragged about it), were allowed by the media to slam with impunity people like Kerry, Murtha, and poor Max Cleland who had actually gone to war (and in Clelend's case, left a few limbs there). the media, that in a functioning democracy is supposed to be the ref, thought it O.K. and allowed the draft dodgers to cover the veterans in lies (Swift Boat and otherwise). If you think the media will point out the bad faith in McCain's slamming Obama's inexperience these next three months, think again. unless there's a provable scandal that can damage her, Palin's home free. she has a Down syndrome baby, if you attack her you not only are a baby-killer but you also hate babies with Down syndrome. and those of you who hope she's clueless, she can't be more clueless than Dan Quayle. and Bush I / Quayle won in '88.

By: starzero

starzero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:36:11 -0800

Does the VP do something from day to day? Well, I read she is in the NRA and likes hunting so she can keep up the tradition of the VP shooting people in the face every now and then.

By: matty

matty — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:36:12 -0800

OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD. Her voice isn't that far off from "Will & Grace's" Karen Walker!!!! Anastasia Beaverhausen for VP!!!! (.wav file)

By: DU

DU — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:37:35 -0800

I think a pick like this would say more about the McCain camp's own view of their current position, the other VP possibilities, and the expected trajectory of the rest of the campaign than anything else. And possibly what the other VP possibilites' view of the expected trajectory. I wonder if even Romney, let alone Pawlenty, want the WH badly enough to get McCain/Bush all over their clean names.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:38:20 -0800

She has a 5 month old baby. I don't think most women relate to having a 5 month old, returning to work 3 days later, and then running for VP.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:38:34 -0800

Um, and it's not about me "feeling good". If you've got a good argument for why Clinton won't campaign harder, say so. I'm not making stuff up to post here in order to "feel good".

By: cell divide

cell divide — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:38:55 -0800

heh, I meant to say, "having a child, returning to work 3 days later, and 5 months later running for VP".

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:39:00 -0800

She's on CNN now (and here; she's got a really weird speaking voice. I guess that's what an Alaskan accent sounds like.

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:39:18 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator." "Juneau." "No, I DON'T know—that's why I'm asking!" "Anchorage." "Do you really need encouragement just to answer the question?" Nome? No sir, we do not. That's why we're asking you. "Fairbanks." "Senator McCain, there will be time to discuss your financial policies later. I'm asking about your VP selection." "What was the question again?" [fuming] "Listen. Let me put it to you this way: the people who come from this place—they must call themselves something. What's the word they use to refer to themselves?" "Inuit." "Good. I suppose you wouldn't mind sharing it with me, then?" "Eskimo." "I'm not interviewing Moe—I'm asking you!"

By: orange swan

orange swan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:40:04 -0800

Ah, this must be why people are winding up at my blog's review of Sarah Plain and Tall by searching for "Sarah Plain". Palin, people, Palin.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:40:56 -0800

Metafilter: post made up stuff here to "feel good"

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:41:28 -0800

STOP CLAPPING INTO THE MIKE

By: nitsuj

nitsuj — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:42:27 -0800

http://www.vpilf.com/

By: wfrgms

wfrgms — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:42:43 -0800

IT'S A TRAP! If the left thinks they can attack her on the fact that she's some backwoods breeder they are going to step in it with "middle America." How dare the left attack this woman for choosing to bring a new (if retarded) life into this world! How dare the left attack her small town values! The left is out of touch, elitist, effete, and beholden to ivory towers socialists and inner city welfare leeches and their attacks on Palin just confirm this! Who will keep us safe? The party of the welfare queens, the queers, and the baby killers? Or the party of the vets, the frontiersmen (and women) and those who recognize that family is the foundation of our society! Not a genius move, but theirs is a party that neither desires nor respects genius...

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:42:48 -0800

How tough will Joe Biden be able to get on her in the debate without people calling him a sexist pig? As a feminist and supporter of full equal rights for pretty much everyone, I say, "eviscerate the shit out of her". Also, McCain is a known skirt chaser who left his former-beauty-queen wife for a younger, might-as-well-be-former-beauty-queen heiress, and now wants to make a younger former beauty queen his #2. You want to talk about fucked up sexual dynamics? It's not Biden anyone has to worry about.

By: yhbc

yhbc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:44:00 -0800

I can't help but think this is part of some bigger GOP plan. Have the dems focus on her inexperience and then after a few weeks she decides she cannot be the VP candidate because family comes first or something else. Then they go after Obama's inexperience again using quotes from dems about her inexperience. Or something like that. It just seems like such a desperate move. My paranoid thought is she could be another Harriet Miers - an inappropriate candidate tossed out as a possibility (and a distraction), then later pulled back in favor of the person who was the "real" candidate all along.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:44:32 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator." "Juneau." "No, I DON'T know—that's why I'm asking!" "Anchorage." "Do you really need encouragement just to answer the question?" Nome? No sir, we do not. That's why we're asking you. "Fairbanks." "Senator McCain, there will be time to discuss your financial policies later. I'm asking about your VP selection." "What was the question again?" [fuming] "Listen. Let me put it to you this way: the people who come from this place—they must call themselves something. What's the word they use to refer to themselves?" "Inuit." "Good. I suppose you wouldn't mind sharing it with me, then?" "Eskimo." "I'm not interviewing Moe—I'm asking you!" "So, Senator, is it true you picked Gov. Palin as a pandering move to women voters?" "Denali."

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:44:40 -0800

mkultra - Ugh. Creepy. And it's about that time in his breeding cycle, things could go very wrong.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:45:14 -0800

Ouch:

I don't know Dan Quayle. But I hope that whatever golf course he's on, he's duly offended by the day's frequent comparisons between John McCain's frantic selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate and his own selection in 1988. Let's look at the record: * Quayle: Two terms in the U.S. House, eight years in the U.S. Senate, representing a state of 6.5 million people. * Palin: City council member and mayor of a town of 8,500 people, 20 months as governor of a state of 650,000 people. No, Governor Palin, you're no Dan Quayle. Maybe in a few years.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:45:24 -0800

Wait - the Harriet Miers thing was deliberate? What did it gain them?

By: i_am_a_Jedi

i_am_a_Jedi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:46:02 -0800

Holy Christ McCain is going to get fucking stomped

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:46:55 -0800

Let the VPILF jokes begin. Meh. Give me Jennifer Granholm or Stephanie Herseth any day. Or Margaret Thatcher. What, you don't think power is sexy? Tell me you don't think power is sexy.

By: Fuzzy Skinner

Fuzzy Skinner — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:47:23 -0800

she's got a really weird speaking voice Really??? Sounds pretty normal to me. Certainly not the flat tv-announcer voice, but just sounds like most other regular folks. Of course, I am from Michigan, which is famous for its distinctive high-throated/nasal accent. And I now live in Montana, which is not as distinctive, and which I have probably acclimated to. In any case, I wouldn't have the immediate reaction that she has a "weird" speaking voice. It's certainly less grating than some others.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:47:35 -0800

McCain picks a pro-life, pro-second amendment, fiscal conservative, and current governor for VP. Sounds pretty normal. Oh, and she's an attractive woman. OMG METAFILTER RAAAAAAAAAGE!!! I thought the Republicans were supposed to be the male chauvinists.

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:49:12 -0800

Or Margaret Thatcher. What, you don't think power is sexy? Tell me you don't think power is sexy. If you're, you know, into that whole dominatrix/GMILF thing. you know who you are

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:49:53 -0800

You know, male democrats who don't get the whole Hillary Clinton thing have been pissing off female democrats who do during the entire primary season. Lead Hillary off with all the tough debate questions and send a few easy ones to Obama, and then if the Hillary camp complains call them whining complainers. Market a bunch of sexist products that make fun of Hillary (where no one would dare do the same thing to Obama), and have a bunch of media talking heads say awful sexist things to her, and then say her camp is a bunch of whiners and complainers when they speak up about it. Once Obama has effectively won the primary, make it clear that he is not going to seriously consider her for VP, and don't let us know why, and pick some stuffy old white guy instead. Okay, fine. Then, at the convention, when she more than any other losing candidate in history comes out and supports Obama and tells her voters to get out there and support Obama through a really moving speech, pick it apart and say that she didn't do enough, she wasn't really sincere, she should have talked more about why he is qualified to be president. And now, when McCain surprises a large portion of americans who thought he was going to pick some old rich white dude as his VP but instead picks a "youngish" (mid-forties) woman (again, supposedly the most popular governor in America and known as a serious reformer), bust out jokes about how she was a beauty queen and how dumb she must be and how ridiculously political this move is. And how dumb it is to pick your VP just to go after the female vote. It seems to me like a bunch of male democrats have been underestimating the importance of the female vote for a pretty serious stretch of time here. Maybe this will work out for McCain and maybe it won't. But you might do better with a little less derision and a little more understanding for what these women are on about. You think she got elected Governor of Alaska -- a state full of men -- because she is pretty? Whatever. This is really disappointing.

By: Rhaomi

Rhaomi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:50:16 -0800

By: dosterm

dosterm — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:53:01 -0800

I get the experience meme now. That insight is like a kick in the gut. I know Obama's record, so I always just wrote off the problem of experience. But now, the problem of experience actually applies, and it's terrifying. I'm going to have an honest question for my Republican friends that I know love this country: what if McCain dies? I do not think this is terrifying because Palin is a woman, or a beauty queen, or a mother. None of those are close to reasons to think she cannot do the job. It's going to be sickening once those attacks start, from the right or from the left. (Republicans don't have the monopoly on sexism, and I'm afraid of the attacks that are going to come from Democrats.) I believe the time is way overdue for a woman to get into office. But the sad fact of our past and current sexism does nothing to change the fact that she is not presidential material. The very worst part of this is that so many women are presidential material and they got passed over because she's an easy choice. She tows the party line, betraying her fellow women on the issues that count. The problem with picking a woman for purely political purposes is a deep one. It confirms that the movers and shakers in the Republican political machine have nothing but contempt for women. "Yes, we were mean to you, but look, we got you this shiny handbag, just for you..." This terrifies me because so much is riding on this election. Only a historic choice will do. I want a woman in office, but please, not one that doesn't even know what the job entails. Not one chosen in the cynical and desperate spirit of demographic politics.

By: falameufilho

falameufilho — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:53:51 -0800

I have to wonder what Palin's view on parental leave is, given the example she's set that basically says to mothers "hey, its not that hard. Just go back to work. You can do it if you try hard enough." @anastasiav would you prefer if she were against paid leave and took a 90 day break herself? Be a sport and at least praise her for walking the talk - that is, if she IS against paid leaves, which I believe you're just speculating and it's all bullshit. Just another opportunity to put Obama in a good light by comparison.

By: Kwine

Kwine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:53:58 -0800

I'm really looking forward to the VP debates. Biden won't attack Palin, he'll attack John McCain, and she'll look helpless trying to respond. Biden doesn't have to say anything about her at all, and he can attack McCain with a smile on his face. It's a demographic ploy to shore up the evangelical base and try to lure Clinton voters, pure and simple. All Hillary has to do is come out strongly against Palin; she will. I think this choice is a big win for the Obama campaign; it's the sort of move that would have worked against Kerry and his Ineffectual Hamster Wheel Campaign of No Hope, but Obama and his people play in the big leagues.

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:54:47 -0800

Palin's husband is Yupik. Yupik? No, you pick!

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:55:14 -0800

onlyconnect: "supposedly the most popular governor in America and known as a serious reformer), bust out jokes about how she was a beauty queen and how dumb she must be and how ridiculously political this move is. And how dumb it is to pick your VP just to go after the female vote. Honestly, I could give a flying shit about her being a beauty queen or having done a lot of cover shoots. As long as she governs well, who cares? What I could care about is why the hell McCain picked someone who's had no foreign policy experience, no national domestic experience, and 18 months of statewide domestic (gubernatorial) experience to serve as backup for a 72-year-old cancer survivor's Presidency. I'd feel similarly if we were talking about Gov. Samuel Palin, if he had these credentials.

By: bukharin

bukharin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:55:59 -0800

Not sure if this has been said yet, but it strikes me that it this is to throw a wrench in the works of Biden's debate performance. He's going to have to pull his punches with a woman, believe it or not. This strikes me as a pretty crass and cynical pick for VP. Of course the GOP would pick a woman VP without any substance whatsoever, a dolled up pretty-faced hack. They'd have done better with one of those blond women on CNBC.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:57:48 -0800

just heard her speech: She sounds like one of the ladies from Prairie Home Companion. Genius, pure genius.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:58:42 -0800

Man, I just want to hear the dialogue between Fleischman and O'Connell about this. He'd say something about how she's not competent to be president, and she'd take it as sexist, and then he'd have to dig himself out of a hole. Then, a couple of seasons later, they'd fuck. Off-camera, of course. Ah, man *wipes away a tear* good times, good times. Too bad Ruth-Anne never ran for governor.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:59:09 -0800

George H W Bush won in spite of picking Quayle as VP. Remember? Bush won 40 states and 400+ electoral votes. I don't think it was quite possible for him to win even more had he picked anyone else.

By: ijoshua

ijoshua — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:00:33 -0800

Funny that Mickey C picked a running-mate with a name no one can pronounce. Pah-lin? Pay-lin?

By: Fuzzy Skinner

Fuzzy Skinner — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:01:50 -0800

betraying her fellow women on the issues that count. Which issues? Which women? Not all women believe the same thing. No political party or ideaology has a lock on "women's issues."

By: the_bone

the_bone — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:02:46 -0800

Then, at the convention, when she more than any other losing candidate in history comes out and supports Obama and tells her voters to get out there and support Obama through a really moving speech, pick it apart and say that she didn't do enough, she wasn't really sincere, she should have talked more about why he is qualified to be president. To be fair, I don't think it was Obama's supporters doing that so much as the media. Which is not the same thing. It's a manufactured controversy; every Obama supporter I know (i.e., just about everyone in my life who isn't an AARP member) would agree that Clinton's speech and endorsement was gracious and effective.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:06:23 -0800

You know what's really pissing me off about this pick? The sentiment among the smug conservative pundits that McCain "broke the glass ceiling" with this selection. Bull. Shit. The fact that they cannot see the enormous logical fallacy of that statement is just staggering. The proverbial glass ceiling will be broken by a strong woman who does so of her own merit, not because the condescending establishment saw fit to cut a hole in it big enough only for her -- and did so only because it served their own cynical, fuck-the-95%-of-you agenda.

By: mandymanwasregistered

mandymanwasregistered — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:06:43 -0800

I knew the GOP was the party of evil geniuses, but damn, bravo, they just hoisted the DNC on its own petard by choosing a rabidly pro-life (keep the party faithful happy) woman (oh hai center-right voters HRC was attracting) who started her political career around the same time as Obama (experience!). If they call out the sexist attacks on her that will certainly be made by the same fauxgressives who attacked Clinton while Obama, Dean etc said nothing, omfg, supermega evil genius.

By: Uppity Pigeon #2

Uppity Pigeon #2 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:06:51 -0800

Picking Biden let the democrats counter the GOP's claims that Obama lacked experience and foreign policy chops. Clearly the GOP wanted to do something similar with their VP pick, getting someone who could similarly dull an enemy attack and shore up weaknesses. Problem is, even if the age thing has always been on the table, the Obama campaign has steered clear of it. As far as I know, there aren't Obama ads saying "McCain would be a great president... if he was younger." Even if it is implicit, it was never stated openly. All this really does is to make McCain look desperate and pandering, and has the added effect of robbing McCain of his second big attack against Obama's lack of experience and his youth.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:07:22 -0800

Just after Palin's speech a Fox News commentator read the Democratic response, which was basically that it was unseemly to have a person who has only been governor for two years and the mayor of a town of 8,000 a "heartbeat away from the presidency". Immediately followed by: ALERT: OBAMA CAMPAIGN DISSES PALIN FOR SMALL-TOWN ORIGINS Seriously. The release I saw from Bill Burton only mentions that she was a former small town mayor and doesn't mention the fact that she's Governor. To me, that was very insulting and definitely a try at playing the LOL she's hot so she must be stupid card.

By: vorpal bunny

vorpal bunny — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:09:21 -0800

I feel that Palin's total lack of experience does not take the experience debate off the table. I think it puts Obama in an awkward position. If he attacks Palin for being inexperienced, he validates the Republican claim that experience is important. The natural Republican response would be that if experience is that important, then surely it is more important that the person who will actually be President is the experienced one.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:10:04 -0800

I heard they are sending Palin to Russia to sort out this war! Fox News TV Host: Palin knows about foreign policy because Alaska is ‘right next door to Russia’

By: zippy

zippy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:10:11 -0800

Several have said this removes McCain's 'experience' talking point. I don't see it. McCain's already got experience. n + 0 is still n. Regarding the 'doesn't know what a VP does' meme, I think that may be a misreading of her statement from a few weeks ago: ....I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.” It sounds like she's saying to McCain and the Republican Party,"if you want me, you better give me a real job (oh, and there better be something in it for Alaska too)." She only wants to run if she's going to do more than attend the funerals of lesser heads of state.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:10:19 -0800

anastasiav would you prefer if she were against paid leave and took a 90 day break herself? Be a sport and at least praise her for walking the talk - that is, if she IS against paid leaves, which I believe you're just speculating and it's all bullshit. Just another opportunity to put Obama in a good light by comparison. So, now we have to praise politicians for actually doing what they expect their constituents to do? I do think it's weird to extrapolate from a female politician's behavior what she represents, because no woman governor in her right mind is going to take three months off, no matter what her position is. But acting all surprised that people would wonder about it is silly. Until we learn more about Palin, everyone is going to be speculating. That's a large part of why this announcement was made today: to take attention away from Obama. Politics is all about framing your opponents' in such a way that it puts you in a good light by comparison.

By: PlusDistance

PlusDistance — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:10:42 -0800

The beauty queen jokes would be sexist, if it were just a way for people to make fun of her looks. But she actually was a beauty queen. Maybe it's not the most incisive critique of her qualifications, but the fact that she competed to be "Miss Congeniality" tells you something about her. As I recall, lots of women have issues with beauty contests and the contestants who tape and vaseline themselves to win them.

By: Metroid Baby

Metroid Baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:10:58 -0800

The choice strikes me as a tad "Can Hamsters Fly Planes?"-esque.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:11:46 -0800

When John McCain is ailin' He brings in Sarah Palin. When the polls are trailin' He puts his hopes in Palin. When the rhetoric's failin' There's always Sarah Palin. If liberalism's prevailin' Then trust in Sarah Palin! When the election was over, McCain was asked why And he sheepishly grinned and said with a sigh: "There once thing I wanted from Sarah Palin: I needed someone who could explain emailin'."

By: middleclasstool

middleclasstool — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:11:57 -0800

An awful lot of you seem to be assuming that women voters are shallow idiots, and that PUMAs are more than an invention of Fox News. Jesus Christ, yes, for the thousandth time: PUMA is a Republican operation. Its chairman voted for McCain in 2000 and contributed $500 bucks out of her own pocket to his campaign. STOP TALKING ABOUT PUMA, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:12:47 -0800

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:39 -0800

But is the Christian right really going to accept a mother with a 5-month-old infant going on the campaign trail? If the guy from the Christian right who has an office across from mine is any indication, the answer is yes. Before the Palin pick he was ready to sit out this election. What's important here is her pro-life, creationist position. As much as I hate to generalize, this is the one overriding factor for most folks I know who have this political bent. The Hillary supporters are going to be insulted that McCain made such a bad choice just to pander to women. I'm glad that Obama didn't pick Hillary as his VP, but it would have been killer diller to watch Hillary smash Palin in such a one sided debate. I can almost guarantee that if the Democratic ticket was Obama/Hillary, Palin would not have been McCain's veep choice, exactly for the reason you cite. As it stands, the VP debates will be interesting to watch. Though Biden's a seasoned politician, when he strays from prepared speech, he can really stick his foot in his mouth. It appears to me that Obama's choice of Biden is based on the assumption that Biden would actually make a good vice president. The cynic in me sees McCain's pick not as somebody who will help him govern, rather the opportunity to pick up a few votes.

By: ericbop

ericbop — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:15:34 -0800

Barack: "Wait, McCain's VP pick is married to an Eskimo, champion snowmobile racer??" *divorces Michelle, marries native-Hawaiian surfing champion.* "Take *that,* Johnny!"

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:16:06 -0800

The questions about the VP debate will be interesting. The previous thinking was that you let Biden be Biden. Unleash the hounds, so to speak. Now, not so much. Biden is going to have to play it straight, or else he looks like an asshole. I think he can do it, and do it well, but it certainly changes the equation.

By: fluffycreature

fluffycreature — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:16:32 -0800

She graduated with a degree in journalism. *blink* I am entirely confused as to how this is the best of the best to be the first person in the presidential line of succession. I don't care what her beliefs are, this is astounding. It's the only thing XQUZYPHYR didn't mention, otherwise I am in agreement with that post.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:17:06 -0800

Obama's speech last night was incredibly moving. America, such an amazing, wonderful place, would do well to elect Obama. He is the dream realized. I just hope he doesn't suffer too much from stigmata or halo-chafing.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:20:01 -0800

Has Geraldine Ferraro spoken up about this? If there's anyone to compare Palin to, it would be her. Ferraro had a law degree and three terms in the House when she was on the ticket, and was perceived to be inexperienced. ^{But that was way back before the Culture War}

By: enn

enn — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:20:37 -0800

She might be inexperienced in absolute terms, but look at the bigger picture, people. Obama is claiming 12 years of experience out of 4.5 billion years of Earth, but Palin's got two years out of a mere 6,000 — she totally wins on the percentages.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:24:19 -0800

So the woman VP is bad due to her lack of experience. Let's not forget that Obama's 'experience' led him to vote FOR retroactive immunity for the telecoms that helped Bush illegally spy on us all. But I guess we're all supposed to agree that one's quantity of experience is more important than its quality.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:25:22 -0800

Oh, and she's an attractive woman. OMG METAFILTER RAAAAAAAAAGE!!! I thought the Republicans were supposed to be the male chauvinists. You know, I'm really naive in thinking that at some point in my life people will actually get it through their heads that feminism is as much about equally judging women's faults as it is about judging their attributes. Whining that everyone here is ragging on Palin for her looks means you deliberately haven't read this thread, are pretending to be stupid, or merely think everyone else on this thread is stupid enough to believe what you said. None of those three options are highly appealing. Palin's unfit to be vice-president. Biden is a better politician, a smarter person, and a more qualified candidate than her by an exponential factor. And if you think any of that is "chauvinist," then I really just give up on you.

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:25:26 -0800

Despite the risks, one major McCain reason for picking Palin is becoming increasingly obvious: highest probability of self-inflicted Democratic wounds through various overenthusiastic and overreaching attacks. She's a ready-made target for the loose cannons. Hey there Democrats: a Palin pick is supposed designed purely to help McCain, and it's almost impossible for it to hurt Obama. In other words, it shores up his base but has virtually no effect on Obama's base -- PUMAs are minuscule in number, have never intended to vote to Obama under any circumstances to begin with, and they're not concentrated in any particular battleground state. Democratic women are strongly and overwhelmingly pro-choice, and for the most part independent women are as well. In short, Palin is supposed to generate more enthusiasm/turnout among Republicans (by addressing certain McCain weaknesses among his base -- for instance, her stanch creationist stance comes into play here), and Palin will not win crossover votes from Obama/Biden unless you people give voters a reason to. Don't screw it up with ill-conceived rhetoric like some are doing in this thread and elsewhere on various blogs, because that's exactly what McCain is hoping for, too. Especially from Biden in the VP debates, where I expect the McCain campaign to have a few particularly goading lines prepared for him. (HAI BIDEN, 4 PWNAGE STAY ON POLICY PLZ, KTHXBYE.) As long as Democrats stay tactful, disciplined, and on-message, all the reasons why Palin was discounted as a serious veep possibility not so long ago will manifest themselves clearly during the course of the campaign. Very few people seriously expected McCain to pick Palin for many reasons, and those reasons will be played out in due time as long as Democrats don't trip over themselves trying too hard to push things along. Of course, asking Democrats not to screw up a campaign is like asking a bear not to shit in the woods. It might be even asking too much of the fabled Obama team to keep their party on-message.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:25:36 -0800

Uh-oh! McCain's pick of Palin is backfiring with the Hillary dead-enders!

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:27:03 -0800

McCain's pick shows all the judgment and wisdom of George W. Bush picking Harriet Myers as the best possible candidate for the Supreme Court.

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:28:40 -0800

I guess Susan Collins, Christie Todd Whitman, Oympia Snowe, and Elizabeth Dole were busy. Or not batshit anti-abortion enough.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:29:40 -0800

Who cares if she's a woman? She's anti-choice, corrupt and in Big Oil's pocket. Picking her doesn't make John McCain a maverick. It makes him a Republican.

By: Cranberry

Cranberry — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:29:44 -0800

I hope Palin campaigns wearing a sash that says "For disgruntled Hillary fans".

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:31:25 -0800

Americans were giddy with scorn when the media exposed Chinese Olympic officials had substituted a "pretty child" for the "ugly one" in the opening ceremonies ... McCain has copied the strategy. He has chosen an unqualified beauty queen over a long list of much more qualified and respected Republican women - i.e., Kathleen Sibelius Janet Napolitano Elizabeth Dole ... I am not a Republican, and so should probably be happy about this horrific decision. However, I am a feminist. I find this act emblematic of people who view women as no more than decorative objects. This kind of diminuation of women is such an insult. Don't EVEN compare this woman to Hillary!

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:32:05 -0800

The couple-of-million or so PUMAs, the Clintonites who won't vote for Obama. (Not to be confused with cougars, btw). There's a high degree of intersection.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:15 -0800

My first reaction was "cynical", followed immediately by "coldly calculating" which looped back to "cynical" again. I do think it'll gain more votes than it loses, unless she falls very flat on her face in the next couple of months.

By: Uppity Pigeon #2

Uppity Pigeon #2 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:25 -0800

Uh-oh! McCain's pick of Palin is backfiring with the Hillary dead-enders! Ha! Serves them right. There are a lot of unsavory adjectives you could apply to the Hillary dead-enders, but "Easily placated" sure is not one of them.

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:29 -0800

Gonna second Kwine's comment above, because it's the best attack line for the Democrats, and so far the Obama camp has been pretty damned good about following the right attack line. Palin's a non-entity. Biden is the anti-McCain attack dog, and as long as he stays on that scent he'll do fine. He doesn't have to attack Palin because there's just nothing there. Have Biden hammer against McCain in the debates, and he wins.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:37 -0800

Biden is a better politician, a smarter person, and a more qualified candidate than her by an exponential factor. Um, what? "Better Politician"?? What does that even mean? And how do you know if he's smarter or not?

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:41 -0800

This certainly puts the abortion issue back in play, which should boil away the mushy middle and leave us the starkly split electorate we've had in recent past. onlyconnect: You know, male democrats who don't get the whole Hillary Clinton thing have been pissing off female democrats who do during the entire primary season. Lead Hillary off with all the tough debate questions and send a few easy ones to Obama, and then if the Hillary camp complains call them whining complainers. The debates were moderated by male Democrats? Market a bunch of sexist products that make fun of Hillary (where no one would dare do the same thing to Obama), and have a bunch of media talking heads say awful sexist things to her, and then say her camp is a bunch of whiners and complainers when they speak up about it. Which male democrats marketed these products? Which media talking heads were male Democrats? Once Obama has effectively won the primary, make it clear that he is not going to seriously consider her for VP, and don't let us know why, and pick some stuffy old white guy instead. Okay, fine. Which male Democrats said this? And let me just say, as Hillary fan (but Obama voter), I would much, MUCH rather have her kicking ass in the Senate than withering away as VP. If you wanted Hillary as VP for either the historical hit points or because you felt she deserved it, I think you should re-evaluate your political priorities. VP is for losers. Then, at the convention, when she more than any other losing candidate in history comes out and supports Obama and tells her voters to get out there and support Obama through a really moving speech, pick it apart and say that she didn't do enough, she wasn't really sincere, she should have talked more about why he is qualified to be president. Who the frak are you talking about? Male Democrats or the media? And now, when McCain surprises a large portion of americans who thought he was going to pick some old rich white dude as his VP but instead picks a "youngish" (mid-forties) woman (again, supposedly the most popular governor in America and known as a serious reformer), bust out jokes about how she was a beauty queen and how dumb she must be and how ridiculously political this move is. And how dumb it is to pick your VP just to go after the female vote. It's not "dumb", in fact it's politically expedient. But I for one am sick of political expediency. Nor is she dumb, and I don't know that anyone is claiming she is. But governor --> VP in two years does not inspire confidence that the pick was made for her political savvy. It seems to me like a bunch of male democrats have been underestimating the importance of the female vote for a pretty serious stretch of time here. You appear to claiming that the only way male Democrats could properly estimate the importance of the female vote would be to give them a female to vote for. Seems to me you're underestimating the intelligence of the average female voter.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:42 -0800

He has chosen an unqualified beauty queen over a long list of much more qualified and respected Republican women - i.e., Kathleen Sibelius Janet Napolitano Elizabeth Dole ... Well, one out of three ain't bad.

By: plexi

plexi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:33:44 -0800

She's a creationist. "In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms: "I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum." She added that, if elected, she would push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum." So, she believes (and wishes to enforce teaching) that the Earth was "created" 1000 years after the Sumerians invented glue.

By: malaprohibita

malaprohibita — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:34:11 -0800

I had to look up PUMA. Thank you for the education.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:34:47 -0800

First black president or first female ~~vice~~ president? That's awesome. Fixed that for you. McCain is eleventy-six years old, so whoever his VP is is very very likely to become President, too. And pretty or not, that sort of scares me, though I do like that we'll get one or the other, assuming she isn't impeached or resigns first.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:34:53 -0800

When I opened my browser this morning and went to Yahoo to check my e-mail, this was the lead story. And I know people kid about this, and jokingly make this claim, but in this instance I literally did do a spit take with my Nescafé. This so blatantly reaks of desperation as to be humorous. Also, what XQUZYPHYR said.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:35:16 -0800

SteveInMaine: As it stands, the VP debates will be interesting to watch. Though Biden's a seasoned politician, when he strays from prepared speech, he can really stick his foot in his mouth. As it stands, the Presidential debates will be interesting to watch. Though McCain's a seasoned politician, when he strays from prepared speech, he can really stick his foot in his mouth.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:35:43 -0800

Palin's unfit to be vice-president. HAHA. You just found out about this lady this morning. Yet you're already absolutely sure she can't be VP just because she has slightly less experience than Obama. Talk about jumping to conclusions, and then trying to rationalize them afterwards.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:36:55 -0800

Surfurrus writes "He has chosen an unqualified beauty queen over a long list of much more qualified and respected Republican women - i.e., Kathleen Sibelius Janet Napolitano Elizabeth Dole ..." Are you trying to be funny here? Sibelius and Napolitano are both Democrats. (And Liddy Dole started out working for Kennedy-Johnson '60, and then worked in LBJ's Whitehouse.)

By: ericbop

ericbop — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:37:56 -0800

Has Geraldine Ferraro spoken up about this? Kind of.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:38:22 -0800

HAHA. You just found out about this lady this morning. Umm... no, no I didn't. Some of us are actually interested in politics here.

By: Jahaza

Jahaza — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:39:02 -0800

Jeanne: And there's no way she's prepard to take over if McCain dies. Palin has more executive governmental experience than Obama and Biden combined.

By: arianell

arianell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:39:06 -0800

He has chosen an unqualified beauty queen over a long list of much more qualified and respected Republican women - i.e., Kathleen Sibelius Janet Napolitano Elizabeth Dole ... Sebelius and Napolitano are Democrats.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:39:20 -0800

Though McCain's a seasoned politician, when he strays from prepared speech, he can really stick his foot in his mouth. Yeah, at least Biden doesn't do that.

By: grapefruitmoon

grapefruitmoon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:40:12 -0800

You know, I'm really naive in thinking that at some point in my life people will actually get it through their heads that feminism is as much about equally judging women's faults as it is about judging their attributes. I felt the same way when I had to defend my choice of voting for Obama over Clinton. Because I am a woman and a feminist, I was "supposed" to vote for Clinton. It took a lot to explain that being a feminist meant placing women on equal footing with men and not just voting for a woman just because she's a woman.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:40:44 -0800

And if you think any of that is "chauvinist," then I really just give up on you. Yeah, lets just ignore all the 'beauty queen' comments that are being attached quite liberally to most criticisms of this lady. I'm sure that has nothing to do with dismissing her based on her gender.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:41:18 -0800

(My third reaction was: That old horndog McCain must have misunderstood the term "running mate".)

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:41:29 -0800

Has Geraldine Ferraro spoken up about this? Geraldine will love Palin. 'Cause she's white.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:41:33 -0800

She graduated with a degree in journalism. Holy shit. I'M GONNA BE PRESIDENT! This is gonna fucking rock!

By: dawson

dawson — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:41:49 -0800

Biden is in a catch-22, he will be eviscerated in the debate. I won't argue my opinion, but I'll be happy to go down in mefi history as the guy who thought Joe would lose the debate...badly. I'm pissed that Obama chose an old white beltway failed hothead as veep. Poor decision making. Play it safe move by team Obama. Methinks Palin intimidates some people here already. NOT a McCain man at all.

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:42:15 -0800

ColdChef: "Sarah and Todd Palin have five children: boys Track, 19, and Trig, 4 months, and daughters Bristol, 17, Willow, 13, and Piper, 7. Dear GOD! Vice Presidents don't get to NAME anything, do they?!" Operation Ashley Operation Britney Operation Madison etc..... Leno just creamed his slacks.

By: Slothrup

Slothrup — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:42:37 -0800

Palin has more executive governmental experience than Obama and Biden combined. By that measure, she has more than McCain as well.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:01 -0800

jsonic, the beauty queen comments are coming from the fact that we're talking about a woman who was, literally, a beauty queen. Why is this an issue for you?

By: you just lost the game

you just lost the game — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:46 -0800

I wish McCain had chosen Hillary. Now that would have made for an interesting election.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:45:15 -0800

Yeah, lets just ignore all the 'beauty queen' comments that are being attached quite liberally to most criticisms of this lady. I'm sure that has nothing to do with dismissing her based on her gender. I think the non-sexist point there, whether on the mark or not, is that that's the BEST thing one can find to say about her. It's no more sexist than calling GWB a college cheerleader.

By: DU

DU — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:45:22 -0800

Whatever may be her faults, McCain certainly succeeded in pushing last night's historic performance off the front page.

By: Jahaza

Jahaza — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:45:59 -0800

Though McCain's a seasoned politician, when he strays from prepared speech, he can really stick his foot in his mouth. Yeah, at least Biden doesn't do that.

Heck, Biden can't give a prepared speech.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:23 -0800

So, she believes (and wishes to enforce teaching) that the Earth was "created" 1000 years after the Sumerians invented glue. that's because the sumerians got sick of sticking to each other in space - god had to do something ...

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:34 -0800

I wish McCain had chosen Hillary. Now that would have made for an interesting election.

By: spudsilo

spudsilo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:50 -0800

McCain's biggest problem was that social conservatives don't like him and were contemplating staying home on election day. Social conservatives are euphoric over this pick and will now turn out in droves.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:47:13 -0800

I wish McCain had chosen Hillary. Now that would have made for an interesting election. Yikes, sorry about the double post - but I thought the same thing, that would be world-class entertainment.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:47:48 -0800

I'm going to have an honest question for my Republican friends that I know love this country: what if McCain dies? I'd much rather have Palin as my President than Obama. jsonic, the beauty queen comments are coming from the fact that we're talking about a woman who was, literally, a beauty queen. Why is this an issue for you? Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep.

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:47:59 -0800

mattholomew: "Biden is a better politician, a smarter person, and a more qualified candidate than her by an exponential factor. Um, what? "Better Politician"?? What does that even mean? And how do you know if he's smarter or not?" Jesus, don't make us do all your work, eh?

By: snofoam

snofoam — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:48:06 -0800

everyone's saying sarah palin is a conservative, but really, she's a feminist....for life.

By: Gungho

Gungho — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:48:40 -0800

My .02 is she is in for a fall, being set up as it were, and Lieberman is chosen (or Romney). That way McCain can say he tried, offered a woman for VP, but when she couldn't pass muster he went with the more expeirenced and proven (Fill in the blank).

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:49:35 -0800

She seems like more of a Mussolini than a Thatcher to me.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:49:46 -0800

Of course she is! Because denying women control over their own bodies is oh so feminist.

By: Daddy-O

Daddy-O — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:49:52 -0800

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that her opponents two years ago were saying Palin didn't have the experience to be governor.

By: roombythelake

roombythelake — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:50:20 -0800

The announcement was made when McCain and another masked figure rode up to the assembled press on motorcycles. McCain, wearing his visor up, got off his bike and walked forward; the other figure, clothed all in black leather, with a black visor, stayed still. After some preamble, McCain said: "and now, the next Vice President of the United States!" All eyes turned to the masked rider, who then removed the helmet and *gasp* revealed herself to be a woman, with long hair spilling down about her shoulders. Or at least, that's how it should have been.

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:50:45 -0800

Are you trying to be funny here? Nope, just didn't know any Republican women candidates offhand ... used a blog's list (http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2008/02/john_mccains_top_22_potential.php). Perhaps I should have left the list blank? Actually, maybe I should have put the question out: -- DOES the Republican party have any 'respected, qualified' candidates who DON'T look like beauty contestants??? I still feel this is the case of a "pretty girl" substituted for an "ugly" one. This Palin choice is no "advancement for women". It is just one more insult.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:00 -0800

First sighting of 'I know Hillary Clinton, and...' meme... More to come.

By: goethean

goethean — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:08 -0800

"Senator McCain, where is your VP candidate from?" "Alaska" "No, I'm asking YOU the question, Senator." "Juneau." "No, I DON'T know—that's why I'm asking!" "Anchorage." "Do you really need encouragement just to answer the question?" Nome? No sir, we do not. That's why we're asking you. "Fairbanks." "Senator McCain, there will be time to discuss your financial policies later. I'm asking about your VP selection." "What was the question again?" [fuming] "Listen. Let me put it to you this way: the people who come from this place—they must call themselves something. What's the word they use to refer to themselves?" "Inuit." "Good. I suppose you wouldn't mind sharing it with me, then?" "Eskimo." "I'm not interviewing Moe—I'm asking you!" "So, Senator, is it true you picked Gov. Palin as a pandering move to women voters?" "Denali." "You can't deny that she's your running mate." "Wasilla"

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:44 -0800

But governor --> VP in two years does not inspire confidence that the pick was made for her political savvy. Call me cynical but in my book "political savvy" = retread D.C. hack (Joe Biden anyone?). Do we really need yet another high elected official with decades of experience kowtowing to their corporate paymasters?

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:53 -0800

Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep. No, the deal is that we have a woman who's been governor of of a state (population of which is smaller than Obama's congressional district) for a mere 18 months, and before that was a mayor of a town smaller than the one where Elvis was born. We've got that and the beauty queen thing to go on. And not a whole hell of a lot else. Fair game.

By: dawson

dawson — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:53:00 -0800

wow. when did fark get this nice blue background?

By: goethean

goethean — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:53:55 -0800

This pick makes fools and hypocrites of all the Republicans who have been saying that Obama doesn't have enough experience and that that's why they won't vote for him.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:54:00 -0800

Don't make us do all your work, eh? Sorry, you might have to do a bit more -- you've shown that Biden is mostly a democrat and Palin is mostly a Republican although I haven't seen anything that indicates that one is a 'better politician' or 'smarter' than the other. Biden's collossal verbal gaffe against Obama certainly doesn't help either case.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:54:04 -0800

the beauty queen comments are coming from the fact that we're talking about a woman who was, literally, a beauty queen. Why is this an issue for you? It's always brought up derisively. It's the equivalent of saying she's an airhead because she's pretty. Otherwise why even bring it up? The entire relevance is the idea that "we all know" beauty queens shouldn't be taken seriously. And admit it: If it were the republicans doing this, all of you would be raging hard.

By: RakDaddy

RakDaddy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:54:06 -0800

The Daily Show is going to use "Hot for Teacher" for any segments on her. They must.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:56:06 -0800

I'd much rather have Palin as my President than Obama. Okay, gyc, I'll bite -- why?

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:56:50 -0800

jsonic, so you consider beauty pageants worthy of some kind of respect? I don't see anything of substance or honorable about being in one.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:58:35 -0800

wow. when did fark get this nice blue background? It's part of the transition to full on /b/. You'll get over it.

By: butterstick

butterstick — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:00:31 -0800

Yeah, lets just ignore all the 'beauty queen' comments that are being attached quite liberally to most criticisms of this lady. I'm sure that has nothing to do with dismissing her based on her gender. Does everything need a disclaimer around here? At some point, this woman decided to compete in a beauty contest. She seems to be proud of her performance in it. Therefore, this decision is fair game for criticism, especially with regard to what this could mean for jilted Hillary voters. Lots of feminists consider beauty contests A Bad Thing™. I personally question someone's judgment who participates in one. This is clearly a red flag if we're operating under the hypothesis that this VP pick is pandering to Hillary supporters.

By: fingers_of_fire

fingers_of_fire — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:01:58 -0800

bukharin, I have the same concern. I think the point Biden has to drive home is that Ahmedinajad/Medvedev/Putin/etc. are not going to pull punches when seated across the nuclear non-proliferation negotiating table from a possible President Palin (*shudder*), so she had better be able to conduct herself in a lousy VP debate.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:04 -0800

so you consider beauty pageants worthy of some kind of respect? I don't see anything of substance or honorable about being in one. Nobody is making that argument. The beauty pageant comments are an attempt to discredit her as an airheaded woman. The fact that left-leaning commentors feel justified in doing this just adds to the hypocrisy.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:24 -0800

I haven't seen anything that indicates that one is a 'better politician' or 'smarter' than the other. Palin believes the Earth is 4,000 years old. What the hell more do you need?

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:24 -0800

Why is this an issue for you? It is an issue for jsonic because jsonic likes to find things to chide metafilter for. If it hadn't been that, he'd have been offended by something else, possibly something only he could see. It's the equivalent of saying she's an airhead because she's pretty. For whatever it's worth to others who are actually interested in a conversation instead of the automatic gainsay of whatever "lefty" posture jsonic projects onto metafilter, it's not. It's the equivalent of saying that she's an airhead because she participates in vapid, airheaded activities. Having voluntarily competed in beauty pageants should be as embarrassing as appearing on the Gong Show to any adult who wants to be taken seriously.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:42 -0800

mattholomew: Biden's collossal verbal gaffe You've got an interesting interpretation of "collossal". "Makaka" was a collossal gaffe. All those folks saying gross and insulting things when they (incorrectly) think the mic is off are collossal gaffes. Biden could have chosen his words better, but that was largely MSM manufactured outrage.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:46 -0800

rokusan writes "First sighting of 'I know Hillary Clinton, and...' meme..." You know, it's funny. Here is where I first saw the Plin news,and it didn't even occur to me to check the mainstream media's reaction. I looked here, and on reddit and fark and dailykos, and on a few other blogs. In fact, I never read the Washington Post's site anymore, because it requires a log-in. I don't read CNN or Reuters or the AP much, because they require javascript to work correctly. And really, I'm more interested in blog or aggregator sites, because they give an idea of how Americans are reacting to the news. Weird, but except as sources for aggregators too link to, I don't have a use for the MSM; instead on rely on bloggers to filter my news.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:03:30 -0800

I think there have been some sexist comments in this thread, but I don't think bringing up the nominee for Vice President's days in a beauty pageant is sexist. Unless we want to assume that something like that is intrinsic to being a woman, which is more insulting that any mention of the contest - I'm a woman, I think beauty pageants are stupid and demeaning and I think poorly of women who participate in them. I don't want women involved in them as my political leaders and I don't want them representing me unless they have a cornucopia of experience that overrides that one negative one. Which Palin really doesn't.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:04:28 -0800

It's the equivalent of saying she's an airhead because she's pretty. No. It's a sad, funny, pathetic accomplishment on her resume, akin to "Sang and Danced in Local Theatre Production of Miss Saigon." It would be so whether she was pretty or not.

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:04:37 -0800

Call me cynical but in my book "political savvy" = retread D.C. hack (Joe Biden anyone?). Do we really need yet another high elected official with decades of experience kowtowing to their corporate paymasters? Well shoot, high government experience has to count for something, doesn't it? Otherwise we might as well elect as President any old smartypants who made a meteoric rise from county clerk to head of the city council in two years. We want our politicians to get things done, yes? For better or for worse, getting things done doesn't mean just wanting to get them done, it means knowing how to get them done.

By: Perplexity

Perplexity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:04:48 -0800

Video of her speech today

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:05:32 -0800

You know, it's funny. Here is where I first saw the Plin news,and it didn't even occur to me to check the mainstream media's reaction. I just Googled "Hillary +Palin" to find reactions. I'm now reading all the right wing sites in my bookmarks. It's... mixed.

By: miss tea

miss tea — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:05:38 -0800

Something I can't figure out from her bio: has she ever had a job aside from sports reporter and commercial fisherman? (And yes, I mean job outside of the home.)

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:01 -0800

Beauty pageants are all about judging a woman on how she looks. Period. You can burnish it all you like by calling it a "scholarship competition," have the participants sing opera and twirl batons and proclaim their desire for world peace, but there's no getting around that winners are selected using the most shallow and inconsequential of standards -- ones that completely undercut every effort for equality that women have tried to make. In other words, it's the ultimate endorsement of the belief that women are pretty objects that are placed on god's green earth for the oggling. Beauty pageant participants are not automatically stupid, and no one here is saying that. But someone who values them enough to be a competitor indicates an obsession and an elevation of principles that I really wouldn't want in a politician, much less someone who has the very real potential to be president.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:17 -0800

Biden could have chosen his words better, but that was largely MSM manufactured outrage. Right. Well, as long as it's convenient to think so, good luck with that.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:24 -0800

It's the equivalent of saying that she's an airhead because she participates in vapid, airheaded activities. It's still an ad hominem attack for the most part, though. Dick Cheney is a bad vice president because he supports bad policies, not because he has stupid hobbies.

By: wfrgms

wfrgms — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:45 -0800

In thinking more about the bizarreness of this pick and it's shades of Bush's Harriet Miers moment... I really wonder how the Republican establishment feels about it. Certainly the Wall St. Republicans who have always wanted a Romney-esq pick are probably a little unsettled. I don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't be greatly surprised if, in a few news cycles, Palin declines or changes her mind in the same manner that Miers was quietly swept under the rug. Stranger things have happened...

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:55 -0800

Okay, gyc, I'll bite -- why? Because I oppose Obama's policies and, from my research of her political views, support hers. I think working with McCain, who has a wealth of experience to share, she will be ready to lead. She's also shown that she's willing to call out corruption in her own political party, while I haven't seen anything like that from Obama, even though he comes from one of the most corrupt political environment in the country. It's nothing personal against Obama, I just don't agree with much of his policies and he hasn't shown much tendency to call out his own party when necessary, as opposed to McCain and now Palin.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:06:56 -0800

The beauty pageant comments are an attempt to discredit her as an airheaded woman. It's not that beauty queens are stupid. I think it has more like, beauty queens are to feminism what Stepin Feticht is to civil rights. They place a woman's looks above every other aspect of her, demeaning and objectifying women everywhere.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:07:31 -0800

Oh please, jsonic. If you're not arguing that it's worthy of respect, than it's somehow off-limits to criticize a possible VP picks choices? *I* don't respect beauty pageants, and added to her record and positions, it's only one more thing that proves she's as non-feminist as they come. I find it absolutely fair game to criticize someone's non-feminism, as that's important to me. It has nothing to do with calling her an airhead - it's questioning her beliefs about women.

By: jeffburdges

jeffburdges — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:07:47 -0800

McCain couldn't chose Hillary for the same reason Obama couldn't : they want to stay alive.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:07:55 -0800

Obama doesn't kiss Biden on the cheek like that.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:08:19 -0800

Palin believes the Earth is 4,000 years old. What the hell more do you need? If I'm not mistaken McCain, Obama and Biden all profess to believe in the Zombie Carpenter From Galilee so what does that say about them?

By: billyfleetwood

billyfleetwood — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:08:30 -0800

Agreed. But I don't know why everyone's so quick to hate on or even be surprised by the "visceral" women; look at Obama's 90+ to 1 margin among black voters. Is the tribal nature of our politics so surprising to us that we can't move past it? The idea that women were for Hillary just because she's a woman, or Blacks are for Obama just because he's black misses the point by a wide margin. Blacks are so overwhelmingly for Obama because on a visceral level, his Blackness isn't the first thing they see, it's his obvious gifts. They well up with pride and emotion for Obama not because he's "one of us" because he's so damn good. Women are so overwhelmingly for Clinton because on a visceral level, Her gender isn't the first thing they see, it's her obvious gifts. They well up with pride and emotion for Clinton not because she's "one of us", but because she's so damn good. A lot of Black folks and Women have been seeing for the past 18 months what a lot of people just saw this week. If McCain picked a Woman as a political ploy, then he truly doesn't get it. I mean, there's not a lot of women OR Black people exactly welling up with pride about Condoleeza Rice. I think this might have been the best thing McCain could hae done, even if he did it for cynical, wrong headed reasons. If her being an Less experienced woman levels the playing field for him, then it levels the playing field for the Dems as well. If "experience", and "history" are off the table, that's just more room to talk about the bigger issues. If McCain made this choice for cynical reasons, or because he really, really deep down in his heart believes Obama is an empty suit coasting in on a cult of personality, then he's in big trouble. Because from the looks of the past week, he has a bigger fight on his hands than he realizes.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:09:33 -0800

In thinking more about the bizarreness of this pick and it's shades of Bush's Harriet Miers moment... I disagree. Social conservatives hated Miers because they didn't trust her to be a reliably conservative Justice. Meanwhile, most social conservatives so far seem to love Palin.

By: VicNebulous

VicNebulous — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:09:34 -0800

Everyone cites a lack of experience, but that hasn't stopped Obama or Hillary.

By: kyleg

kyleg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:10:54 -0800

I want to know why the hell McCain was fiddling with his wedding ring during her speech.

By: olinerd

olinerd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:11:43 -0800

Is there a source that shows Palin is a young-Earth creationist (Earth is only 6000 years old), or is she just a creationist (God got things going 4.5B years ago)? The two are pretty different.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:11:45 -0800

Her voice isn't that far off from "Will & Grace's" Karen Walker! Karen Walker for VP?

By: tommasz

tommasz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:14 -0800

Although some folks are calling this a move out of desperation, I don't think that's the case at all. McCain is pretty much running even with Obama, there's no desperation involved here. Hell, even his timing is spot on. You'll have to look deep to find any mention of Obama's speech, every news outlet is so busy reporting on Palin. McCain's handlers are clearly on top of their game right now.

By: mattholomew

mattholomew — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:42 -0800

MikeMc: Thank you sir or madam, check's in the mail.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:45 -0800

DOES the Republican party have any 'respected, qualified' candidates who DON'T look like beauty contestants??? Sure. Maine's excellent Senator Olympia Snowe. FYI: I'm a hardcore Dem and Obama supporter. I wish McCain had picked Olympia. She rocks.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:52 -0800

"She's also shown that she's willing to call out corruption in her own political party, while I haven't seen anything like that from Obama, even though he comes from one of the most corrupt political environment in the country." And so the Coburn–Obama Transparency Act was... what exactly?

By: sour cream

sour cream — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:13:27 -0800

I'm going to have an honest question for my Republican friends that I know love this country: what if McCain dies? "What do you mean? Bill Clinton was 47 and governor of Arkansas when he became President. Sarah Palin is 44 and governor of Alaska and running for VP, not president. I can't understand why you call her "inexperienced". Besides, she has given birth to five children. Even though she knew that the last one was going to be disabled. This alone proves that she can make the right choices and I trust that she would also be making the right choices as POTUS. She is strong and principled and she would also have the strength to make the right decisions as president. How dare you criticize her just because she is from a small town?" And how dare you diss John McCain, a former POW who lived in a box for five years and had to subsist on a thin stew of vegetables, beans, fish, potatoes, chicken, prawns and four kinds of rice.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:13:44 -0800

Well shoot, high government experience has to count for something, doesn't it? To be honest with you I'd rather see more candidates drawn from the civil service ranks that elected officials. Doesn't experience gained without begging lobbyists for money count for anything?

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:15:09 -0800

McCain’s VP Choice Is Under Ethics Investigation For Abuse Of Power In Alaska

By: jamstigator

jamstigator — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:15:11 -0800

Well, I don't really know exactly what McCain was thinking with this choice. Get some disaffected Hillaryites I guess? But this totally shoots down his "experience" message, because he has picked someone with less experience by far than anyone else on either ticket, and this would be someone one step from being leader of the free world if McCain were elected. She does not inspire confidence in me, at all, from a leadership perspective. Oh, there's one other benefit for McCain: there's nothing in the media records showing her attacking McCain for anything. For anyone better-known, like his primary opponents, there probably is. As a Democrat, I'm not displeased at all by his choice. I don't think this selection particularly shores up any McCain weaknesses, but it does detract from the efficacy of his "experience" message. And without that...what else does he have? Not much!

By: garlic

garlic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:15:26 -0800

It's not a contest, it's a scholarship program!

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:15:48 -0800

gyc: I think working with McCain, who has a wealth of experience to share, she will be ready to lead. Where does the "ready to lead" part come from? You share her position on policies, so would you be ready to lead if you were working with McCain? Does Palin's 1.5 years as governor tip the scales in her favor over you? Ultimately, this "ready to lead" issue is crap. You think she's ready to lead because you want her to be. I think Obama is ready to lead because I want him to be. Neither of us has a clue how ready either of them are, because it is not a measurable quality. This is why we should vote on the issues. And it's also why we don't. Because voting based on what you want is easy, while voting based on what is likely is hard.

By: Forktine

Forktine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:16:05 -0800

This is exactly the sort of VP candidate that I had been hoping Obama would pick — a governor from a Western or Southern state, youngish, a sort of rising star but who had carved out some idiosyncratic approaches rather than a party hack. Instead, Obama chose an older white guy, a senator no less, from a small northeastern state. If that were a recipe for success, we'd be talking about whether or not VP Lieberman was considering a White House run about now. Biden is a nice guy, experienced, and really smart, but he doesn't exactly add a lot of zing to the ticket. I think that this is a really smart move by McCain. She comes out of some pretty rough-and-tumble state politics (where the senior people are starting to have some real problems running into corruption charges), and is smart and fast on her feet. She's as tied to the energy business as anyone the GOP is likely to pick, but with a blend of western conservationism that permeates both parties out here. She's attractive and lively in a way that plays well against McCain, and he knows it. So good for him, bad for my hopes of an end to republican presidents for the next four years.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:16:57 -0800

sour cream, again, has it.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:18:42 -0800

Schoolgirl report: The debates were moderated by male Democrats? . . . Which male democrats marketed these products? Which media talking heads were male Democrats? You're correct that it was not necessarily male democrats committing the original acts (though many journalists are both male and democrat), but look back at any of the Metafilter threads on the primaries for tons and tons of male democrats calling Hillary's camp whining whiners for calling out the weird debate dynamics and the sexist behavior and full of praise for Obama for downplaying the race card. Which male Democrats said this? I never heard Obama say he was considering Clinton for vice president, and from the short list that was talked about in the media -- which most often is leaked by the candidate's staff to get opinions about it before the decision was made -- it was clear she wasn't on it. Who the frak are you talking about? Male Democrats or the media? Male democrats I talked to at work the day after Clinton's speech, and male liberals commenting in "The Fray" at Slate.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:18:52 -0800

And so the Coburn–Obama Transparency Act was... what exactly? A bill that passed by unanimous conseent in the Senate?

By: plexi

plexi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:19:26 -0800

Is there a source that shows Palin is a young-Earth creationist (Earth is only 6000 years old), or is she just a creationist (God got things going 4.5B years ago)? The two are pretty different. posted by olinerd at 7:11 PM on August 29 They are both predicated on magic, and neither is science.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:20:18 -0800

Beauty pageant participants are not automatically stupid, and no one here is saying that. Yeah, and I'm sure that's why people keep bringing it up in order to dismiss her. Stay classy, guys.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:20:52 -0800

'sup /b/? I don't think think that there's anything sexist or chauvinistic about deriding any part of Palin questionable qualifications to be VP. In case anyone has been in a coma for the past seven years, let me remind them that the stakes are FAR TOO IMPORTANT to even allow such a person to even compete for the position. A governor, you say? Yes, she is. Of a corrupt, former territory backwater which she took with 114,000 votes. People, it's time we returned to 48 states.

By: lunit

lunit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:20:59 -0800

Conservatives react to Palin.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:21:07 -0800

Because I oppose Obama's policies and, from my research of her political views, support hers. Which means you oppose abortion rights and gay rights, while supporting capital punishment and the teaching of creationism in schools. She's a whistle-blower, I grant you that, but according to the Wikipedia, "Governor Palin is currently under investigation by an independent investigator hired by a legislative panel to determine if she abused her power when firing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan." Well, we'll see.

By: Nattie

Nattie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:21:30 -0800

jsonic, the beauty queen comments are coming from the fact that we're talking about a woman who was, literally, a beauty queen. Why is this an issue for you? Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep. Yeah, because when men who are former wrestlers, body builders, and actors campaign for office, no one ever makes comments about the lack of intelligence required in those lines of work. Get off it already.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:22:09 -0800

Where does the "ready to lead" part come from? You share her position on policies, so would you be ready to lead if you were working with McCain? Does Palin's 1.5 years as governor tip the scales in her favor over you? Sure, I would probably be just as ready to lead as Obama. He's been a Senator for 3.5 years, and has pretty much been spending most of that time campaigning to be President. Meanwhile, she's actually been spending her time as Governor actually governing and not running for another office.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:23:29 -0800

Besides, she has given birth to five children. Even though she knew that the last one was going to be disabled. This alone proves that she can make the right choices and I trust that she would also be making the right choices as POTUS. So...every woman who has given birth is qualified to be POTUS? I don't understand the logic here.

By: butterstick

butterstick — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:24:26 -0800

I seriously think McCain's VP selection was probably the most important part of his campaign. McCain's choice is much more important than Obama's due to his very real health issues. Thinking that people don't consider the VP of a 72 year old cancer survivor is amazingly naive, so to see so little thought put into this choice is quite remarkable. How did he expect the electorate to imagine her in the White House if something were to happen? I've been watching his campaign make some pretty stellar blunders lately, but this is astounding. And it was CRUCIAL to get it right the first time.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:24:33 -0800

If I'm not mistaken McCain, Obama and Biden all profess to believe in the Zombie Carpenter From Galilee so what does that say about them? Point.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:26:16 -0800

I'd much rather have Palin as my President than Obama. Wow, you must really hate America, huh.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:26:20 -0800

I've read fifty-seven different people pointing out how this choice torpedoes McCain's previous attack on Obama's inexperience, but it seems everyone is missing the OTHER attack on Obama that this mitigates. Palin named two of her children after TV witches. Witches. You read it here first: I don't trust her. She's a secret pagan.

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:27:14 -0800

lunit, thanks for the link. Tokenism. Can anyone say with a straight face that Palin would have gotten picked if she were a man?

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:27:35 -0800

anastasiav: I'm a hardcore Dem and Obama supporter. I wish McCain had picked Olympia. She rocks. I agree, but a lot of republicans consider Olympia a liberal, which means she was never in the running.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:27:59 -0800

A bill that passed by unanimous conseent in the Senate? Well, exactly. So I'm still trying to figure out how you can tout Palin's work against government corruption and yet say that you "haven't seen anything like that" from Obama, when he was one of the Senators who introduced the act. I mean, I have no illusions about persuading you to vote for the man, but if you're going to not vote for him, at least try to be accurate in your reasons why.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:28:40 -0800

Also, heh heh headline: McCain taps Alaska Gov. Palin Oh, to be a Daily Show writer today.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:29:04 -0800

Even though she knew that the last one was going to be disabled. This alone proves that she can make the right choices and I trust that she would also be making the right choices as POTUS. CrassFilter: I'd honestly have t say that she lacks the killer instinct that I'd like to see in my [potential] Commander in Chief.

By: gyc

gyc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:29:48 -0800

Which means you oppose abortion rights and gay rights, while supporting capital punishment and the teaching of creationism in schools. She's a whistle-blower, I grant you that, but according to the Wikipedia, "Governor Palin is currently under investigation by an independent investigator hired by a legislative panel to determine if she abused her power when firing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan." I'm sure you agree 100% on every issue with your chosen candidate, right? Such as subsidies for corn ethanol and high tariffs for imported cellulosic ethanol, telecom immunity, being for the Bush-Cheney energy bill, being against gay marriage, and picking a corporate shill as Veep, right?

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:31:34 -0800

Wikipedia better get rid of this pic of Palin giving a speech.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:31:47 -0800

If I'm not mistaken McCain, Obama and Biden all profess to believe in the Zombie Carpenter From Galilee so what does that say about them? So? There's a real different between being religious and being an extremist (what do you think a creationist is?) who wants to force schools to teach only their brand of craziness? Or are all non-atheists 100% alike?

By: olinerd

olinerd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:31:55 -0800

plexi: agreed (I'm as atheist as they come), but to me, it's the difference between real fundamentalism and more mainstream Christianity. One scares the hell out of me, the other makes me a little nervous. (Voting Obama in any case; just want to know what to argue about with the Republican parents)

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:32:31 -0800

Well, gvc, you're the one that made the original statement, not me.

By: Kwine

Kwine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:32:35 -0800

agregoli, sour cream was making fun of how a McCain voter might defend the Palin choice, I think. Read his/her comment again.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:32:37 -0800

She hunts wookies! And wears their pelts!

By: olinerd

olinerd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:32:48 -0800

Plus, all the posts in here about how she only thinks the world is 4000 or 6000 years old are rather misguided, and it does her a lot of disrespect to paint her as a fundamentalist if she's not. If she is, though, all's fair.

By: dollyknot

dollyknot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:33:21 -0800

“She’s not from these parts, and she’s not from Washington, but when you get to know her, you’re going to be as impressed as I am,” Mr. McCain said as he introduced Ms. Palin to a crowd estimated by his campaign to be 15,000 at the Ervin J. Nutter Center here. I am a Brit and this is far better than any soap opera, well did McCain deliberately chose the Nutter center to make this announcement from, Micheal Palin is this your doing?

By: dirtdirt

dirtdirt — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:33:28 -0800

so what does that say about them? That they are all willing to tell a few unverifiable lies to pander to people who are demonstrably gullible, and to whom that fairy tale is extremely important?

By: arcticwoman

arcticwoman — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:34:02 -0800

Republican McCain picks woman as running mate Keep it classy CNN. Really though, what? Did they say "Obama picks man as running mate?" Obama picks caucasian as running mate?" Of course not, they would have just used Biden's name. Argh. This shit makes me mad. I guess they're just being honest though, I mean the reason she was chosen is that she's a woman.

By: Slap Factory

Slap Factory — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:35:11 -0800

It seems like most of the Obama supporters on Mefi (which is sort of redundant) think that this choice was a really bad idea for McCain. I'm not sure they are the most reliable judges on this issue.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:35:21 -0800

Ah yes, Kwine. Sorry, sour cream. Reads too closely to actual rhetoric these days.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:35:23 -0800

She hunts wookies! And wears their pelts! artw, more likely to be a wampa. Cold weather, don'tcha know.

By: Avenger

Avenger — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:35:52 -0800

Is there a source that shows Palin is a young-Earth creationist (Earth is only 6000 years old), or is she just a creationist (God got things going 4.5B years ago)? The two are pretty different. I'm going to guess that she'll probably "believe" both depending on the audience. "Teach the controversy about Evolution!" is a dog-whistle that means different things in different settings. If Palin said something like that in a Baptist church, most listeners would *think* that she means a 6000 year old Earth. If she said something like that in, say, a Rotary Club meeting, most people would *think* she's just saying "Yeah, the Earth is real old but God created it!" Creationism isn't about details anyway. Creationism has no details. Modern American Creationism is just a backdoor way to get God and Jesus back into classrooms, so the actual mechanics of little things like the age of the Earth are unimportant to creationist politicians. The most important thing, to them, is putting little stickers in science books that say "JESUS PROBABLY DID THIS!!!" so that kids will see that and stop doing drugs and being gay, or something.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:36:54 -0800

Republican McCain picks woman as running mate Well, it's not like anyone knows anything else about her without googling it.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:37:05 -0800

It's still an ad hominem attack for the most part, though. So? It's an attack that's ad the hominem that's running for election. This isn't a debate, where "You are a terrible person, therefore your position is invalid" is treyf. This is an election, where "You are a terrible person, so people should not vote for you" is entirely kosher.

By: bink

bink — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:37:37 -0800

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:37:38 -0800

Palin has more executive governmental experience than Obama and Biden combined. Population of Alaska: 683,478 Population of Fort Worth, TX: 681,818 If I'm not mistaken McCain, Obama and Biden all profess to believe in the Zombie Carpenter From Galilee so what does that say about them? They live in a country where you have to profess that to get elected.

By: Frank Grimes

Frank Grimes — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:37:42 -0800

A choice so crazy that it's political genius. A choice so far from anyone's expectations and so middle America that everybody forgot about that guy who gave a speech in Denver last night and they're talking about Sarah Palin. I can imagine a GOP strategist saying (a la "Wag the Dog,") "Suppose instead of a VP, we're casting a reality show. Who can we find that is so Middle America that she wouldn't miss the lane if she bowled, could slug back a couple of boilermakers without wincing, clings to guns and religion hard enough to make Obama stop looking off into the distance and gaze at her and has some experience in elected office." I think a lot of Americans will see themselves in her.

By: [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST]

[NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:40:36 -0800

She just said "nuke-ular."

By: Critical_Beatdown

Critical_Beatdown — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:40:59 -0800

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. If McCain wanted a former beauty queen with no experience and a criminal investigation on her record I don’t know why he didn’t just pick his own wife.

Tell us how you really feel . . . I'm amazed he picked her with that investigation still outstanding. It's a huge distraction. Did he even really vet her?

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:41:10 -0800

I think a lot of Americans will see themselves in her. Too bad the likelihood is that those those same Americans won't follow that thought to its logical conclusion, namely, most of us aren't anywhere nearly qualified enough to be Vice President of the United States. Me, I'd be pissing myself in abject terror.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:41:14 -0800

Oh good Christ...

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:42:55 -0800

olinerd: Is there a source that shows Palin is a young-Earth creationist (Earth is only 6000 years old), or is she just a creationist (God got things going 4.5B years ago)? The two are pretty different. rokusan's comment made me go looking to confirm that and I couldn't. All I'm finding is that she said creationism should be discussed in school (backing off from a previous statement where she appeared to say it should be part of Alaska public school curriculum) and that she believes there is a creator. So this may be an equivalent of the "Obama is a Muslim" FUD.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:17 -0800

A choice so far from anyone's expectations and so middle America that everybody forgot about that guy who gave a speech in Denver last night and they're talking about Sarah Palin. Which is all well and good, but you need to have more bullets in the gun to satisfy the media machine, or else they will bury you. In other words, you can steal thunder now (and everyone knew you could, simply because of the timing of the conventions), but what will you talk about on the Monday morning after the Republican convention? McCain will talk about patriotism. Obama will talk about hope. Biden will talk about that time he knocked back beers with world leaders and all his time in the Senate. Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? It's not a good long-term move, IMO.

By: Class Goat

Class Goat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:35 -0800

Little known facts about Sarah Palin Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin keeps her hair in a beehive to hide her ninja weaponry. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin will send Biden a pre-debate cheat sheet. The sheet will have tips on defending against Kung Fu Death Grip. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin became governor because five children left her with too much spare energy. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin's hotness is the largest single contributor to melting polar ice caps. ...and so on

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:47 -0800

So? There's a real different between being religious and being an extremist The difference is one epiphany. One "I saw the light" moment is all that separates the casually religious from the "True Believers". And if, as some have mentioned, they don't really believe but need to say they do, well, I guess it's ok to take advantage of people's personal beliefs for your own political gain. All's fair in love and war after all.

By: Class Goat

Class Goat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:45:37 -0800

Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? Palin will talk about getting rid of corruption.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:46:18 -0800

Now you'll have another target for misogynist vitriol besides Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin. As opposed to Islamophobic bigotry for someone who isn't even Muslim, of course. Interesting tactic, for Republican thugs to call anyone who questions Palin's choice a misogynist, when Palin was picked by a man, McCain, for the cynical reason that she is a woman. How you guys get away with this, I'll never figure out. But it's fascinating to see you get away with this tactic time and time again. It never gets old.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:47:28 -0800

A governor, you say? Yes, she is. Of a corrupt, former territory backwater which she took with 114,000 votes. You make her sound almost..."Clintonesque".

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:48:20 -0800

Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? She will talk about defending unborn life and other conservative social issues. McCain isn't supported enthusiastically by social conservatives, and Palin fits the bill perfectly.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:49:52 -0800

If I'm not mistaken McCain, Obama and Biden all profess to believe in the Zombie Carpenter From Galilee so what does that say about them? Not sure what it says about them, but casting sweeping generalizations across millions of people in this country who call themselves "Christian" says a lot about you. They all think, feel and believe the same things, right? Way to rise above the intolerance you supposedly rail against.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:50:35 -0800

Palin will talk about getting rid of corruption. McCain’s VP Choice Is Under Ethics Investigation For Abuse Of Power In Alaska

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:50:47 -0800

kyleg: I want to know why the hell McCain was fiddling with his wedding ring during her speech. I thought this was a joke, but I watched the video- you're totally right, and it's totally creepy.

By: squalor

squalor — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:52:07 -0800

Reminds me of the chutzpah & cynicism involved when GHW Bush appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court to replace Thurgood Marshall. Hey- Palin's a woman, Hillary's a woman, and all women are just alike. Right? Clarence Thomas is to Thurgood Marshall as Sarah Palin is to Hillary Clinton. Chalk & cheese.

By: matteo

matteo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:52:44 -0800

Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? about her husband hit by shrapnel in Iraq about her son who'll be deployed in Iraq on 9/11 about the time when the doctor told her she was carrying a Down's syndrome baby and she decided to keep it about hockey, PTAs, hockey moms, etc. all while looking so very white, so very American, smalltown American, so very non threatening. So non-Muslim.

By: Uppity Pigeon #2

Uppity Pigeon #2 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:53:05 -0800

Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin keeps her hair in a beehive to hide her ninja weaponry. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin will send Biden a pre-debate cheat sheet. The sheet will have tips on defending against Kung Fu Death Grip. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin became governor because five children left her with too much spare energy. Little Known Fact: Sarah Palin's hotness is the largest single contributor to melting polar ice caps. I will vote for whichever presidential campaign promises to have Chuck-Norrisian yucksters dragged out to the old granite quarry and shot in the head.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:54:02 -0800

Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? Palin will talk about getting rid of corruption. She's decided to withdraw already?

By: Bromius

Bromius — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:54:09 -0800

Palin will talk about getting rid of corruption. "Only Nixon can go to China." - Old Vulcan proverb

By: psmealey

psmealey — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:55:08 -0800

I think a lot of Americans will see themselves in her. Is that sexual innuendo based on her physical attractiveness? If so, I laughed. I can't keep up. Honestly, isn't 8 years of this dipshit President (and his even dumber heir apparent in McCain) enough of an argument to kill this "I vote for the candidate I most want to have a beer with" nonsense that idiots like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough harp on so endlessly?

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:56:28 -0800

Sorry, I learned about her creationism right here in this thread... which I will henceforth stop trusting before factchecking. :)

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:56:29 -0800

They all think, feel and believe the same things, right? Isn't God creating the Earth one of the bedrock tenets of Christianity (and the other Abrahamic religions) ? If Palin is a "Young Earth" Creationist is she really that far from other Christians many, if not most, of whom believe the Bible is the Divine Word of God?

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:58:51 -0800

Can we please retire "[keep it | stay] classy"?

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:00:12 -0800

all while looking so very white, so very American, smalltown American, so very non threatening. ... and with five kids I guess we know she could be awakened easily by a three am phone call ... [ oops, she probably has five (undocumented?) nannies! ]

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:01:29 -0800

Can we please retire "[keep it | stay] classy"? Classy retired years ago and is fishing up in Lake Obichokee, fifty miles up Rt. 9.

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:01:50 -0800

If Palin is a "Young Earth" Creationist is she really that far from other Christians many, if not most, of whom believe the Bible is the Divine Word of God? There is actually a large continuum of belief on this matter. Very few of the Catholics I grew up with, and likely none of the Jesuits I knew, regarded the Bible as something to be taken as literal truth. I am pretty sure this is also true for certain Protestant denominations as well. /not a believer in anything except Bacchus

By: butterstick

butterstick — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:01:59 -0800

Wait, so as far as her creationism goes, wanting it to be part of the state educational curriculum isn't damning enough? I'm sure the red-meat evangelicals will love her for it, but I think that's pretty wrongheaded.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:02:30 -0800

MikeMc: If Palin is a "Young Earth" Creationist is she really that far from other Christians many, if not most, of whom believe the Bible is the Divine Word of God? In a thread full of allegations of sexism, this has to be the most culturally ignorant thing said here so far.

By: Frank Grimes

Frank Grimes — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:03:01 -0800

She is like "Ice Road Truckers," "Deadliest Catch," "Dirty Jobs," "Survivorman" and "Next Top Model" all rolled into one with a dash of "Orange County Choppers" meets "Wife Swap" (her husband is a snow mobile racer). The GOP saw that TV viewers wanted this and they delivered. Reagan came from Hollywood and now that scripted shows are fading into history it's time for a reality show candidate.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:03:08 -0800

The difference is one epiphany. So? What isnt that true of? Non-religious people convert all the time to being religious and religious people convert to being non-religious. There's no guarantees in life, especially in politics.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:03:11 -0800

If Palin is a "Young Earth" Creationist is she really that far from other Christians many, if not most, of whom believe the Bible is the Divine Word of God? Yes. Most modern, "enlightened" Christians believe that the Old Testament was crafted in a pre-literate time when such stories had to be told using vivid imagery on their audiences, and that while they agree with the prevailing messages, dismiss the literal "truth" of it. Not sure where the numbers break down among Christians as a group, but anecdotally most mainline Protestants and Catholics think that "Young Earth" Creationists are morons.

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:04:40 -0800

> FYI: I'm a hardcore Dem and Obama supporter. I wish McCain had picked Olympia. She rocks. Agreed. Sadly, Snowe's brand of Republicanism no longer flies outside of New England and maybe a few other quasi-blue areas. She'd be a no-go in much of the country for exactly the same reasons why I (and probably many other MeFites) find her so attractive as a candidate: she's a secularist, pro-choice, pro-environment, if-not-pro-than-at-least-not-anti-gay Republican. The pro-choice part alone would scuttle her in large parts of the country. I think at least at one point I remember her being listed as a member/supporter of the Republican Majority for Choice, but they seem to no longer list affiliated members of Congress.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:05:36 -0800

Wait, so as far as her creationism goes, wanting it to be part of the state educational curriculum isn't damning enough? Oh yeah, that's damning, it's just in no way an excuse to make shit up about here religious beliefs.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:05:39 -0800

If anything non-religious people are MORE likely to spontaniously convert to the batshitinane branches of religion.

By: kosem

kosem — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:05:55 -0800

Here's the thing: it's not the inexperience--experience as such is not necessarily dispositive--she's not accomplished. She's not a policy wonk; she does not have academic credentials; she has virtually no legislative experience of any kind; nothing in her resume even remotely suggests that she has a clue about matters of national security or foreign policy. I am not impressed. I want to be impressed. I want somebody smart and accomplished in the White House. You say the same thing about Obama? I say bullshit. Give them both a fucking quiz. In fact, give all four candidates a quiz. Any issue, any policy, the Bible, the history of the Republican party. Whatever. How we got to calling a law professor, policy expert with a steel trap memory and a powerful, nuanced intellect a naive, inexperienced and unprepared candidate will never cease to amaze me. How we got to calling yet another son of privilege of below average intelligence "ready to lead" and "strong" on foreign policy amazes me even more. Palin is not impressive. She just isn't. There are impressive conservatives out there--many of them are women. This particular woman is weak sauce, and while clearly a talented politician and not totally frivolous, not the sort of accomplished person, thinker, or intellect--left or right, that can competently occupy the second seat, and, lest we forget, preside over the fucking Senate.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:07:36 -0800

Also, for whatever it’s worth, I’m totally okay with the fact that Obama is far more of a Christian than McCain.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:08:52 -0800

What if she gets pregnant with #6 while in office? What is that supposed to mean?

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:08:54 -0800

Did he even really vet her? Not he, per se, but they did and their pick is great. They're surrendering the election before their own convention and they're getting their ducks lined up for 2012. All the while showing that McCain received what he was promised and they build some capital with the nut wing and women voters by throwing Palin up there. The outcome is great for them, even though they lose this one. If she does well, they'll be able to use her to help build up the candidates in the next election, generating goodwill and plenty of TV coverage because SHE'S A GOOD LOOKING WOMAN. Maybe she'll even take over for Stevens. If she does poorly, come next election when women republicans demand another candidate (I'm being silly here), the good ol' boys can come back and say "Look, we gave it a shot, but women just aren't electable" and the issue won't rear its head for another fifty years. And they can say the same thing to "values voters". All this paves the way for Michael Bloomberg, a serious candidate with experience, in 2012. You read it here first.

By: sour cream

sour cream — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:09:27 -0800

Cool Papa Bell: McCain will talk about patriotism. Obama will talk about hope. Biden will talk about that time he knocked back beers with world leaders and all his time in the Senate. Palin will talk about ... talk about ... umm ... ? Palin will talk about how the doctor told her that her child will have Down syndrome. How she discussed the issue with her family. How she made a decision. How she held the little baby in her arms and it was sooo sweet and she realized it was the right decision (which she knew all along). And the whole country will go: Awwwwww... How she can't understand that anyone can even consider murdering such a sweet little baby. How hundred thousands are killed every year. Not in Iraq, but in our hospitals. How it is now your turn to make the right decision on election day. Thereby giving you the choice to vote for her ticket or for the baby killers.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:10:18 -0800

Isn't God creating the Earth one of the bedrock tenets of Christianity (and the other Abrahamic religions) ? Sure, but there's the notion that God created the Big Bang, God created the universe but not 6,000 years ago, and so on. Not everyone believes the Bible is a science textbook. I guess what really irks me about this is I have to not only watch the Talibaptists strangle this country just like everyone else, but I watch them strangle my faith as well. Where's the tolerance and forgiveness among these people? If the topic of religion comes up in mixed company - and it's a topic I avoid like the plague - I'll hear otherwise tolerant and intelligent people describe Christians as clinic-bombing, snake-handling, tongue-speaking, neo-fascist pricks. And the sad part is, I can't really blame them. It's the evangelicals who've muscled their way into the spotlight for the past 25 years or so. It doesn't matter how many other political leaders in history, in this country, and in the world in general have been both professed Christians and perfectly reasonable and tolerant people - it's the Pentacostalist voodoo men who get the air time. And my same multi-cultural, feminist, anti-war friends will use the word "Christian" as pretty much synonyous with these insane bigots. It just sicks and saddens me.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:10:58 -0800

The Dinosaur and the Ditz. One can't remember anything after he was released from his POW camp, the other is campaigning for a job without knowing what it is. "Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep." She believes in Creationism. She's not smart enough for school board.

By: Class Goat

Class Goat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:11:05 -0800

Ta-daaa! VPILF.COM

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:11:12 -0800

You're scaring me with how good at this you are.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:12:05 -0800

(That would be sour cream, not Mr. Goat)

By: Seymour Zamboni

Seymour Zamboni — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:12:10 -0800

I think a lot of Americans will see themselves in her. That is just super. The last time we voted for a president because he seemed "just like us" we got.....well, you all know what we got......we got a simpleton shoved up our collective backsides. I am really glad that federal employees like McCain have really great health care plans.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:12:52 -0800

Metafilter: batshitinane.

By: butterstick

butterstick — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:14:01 -0800

"Wait, so as far as her creationism goes, wanting it to be part of the state educational curriculum isn't damning enough?" Oh yeah, that's damning, it's just in no way an excuse to make shit up about here religious beliefs. Fair enough, and noted. I see that some do, but I take no issue with her beliefs (cloudy as they are as of yet). I take issue with an attempt to foist them on schoolchildren, so as far as I'm concerned she's still got shitty judgment.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:15:06 -0800

In a thread full of allegations of sexism, this has to be the most culturally ignorant thing said here so far. This is America, there is no culture here. and that while they agree with the prevailing messages, dismiss the literal "truth" of it. Not sure where the numbers break down among Christians as a group, but anecdotally most mainline Protestants and Catholics think that "Young Earth" Creationists are morons. I agree that most mainline Christians don't take the Bible literally, but if you don't why bother calling yourself a Christian? I would think Unitarian might be a better choice. Is it just me?.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:15:41 -0800

Maybe she'll even take over for Stevens. BWAAHAAHAHAHAHA! Please tell me you're kidding. Because you are, after all, talking about someone WHO DOES NOT HAVE A LEGAL DEGREE. I am seriously having a Mugatu-esqe "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" moment about that prediction.

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:17:00 -0800

Voters can be willfully smart or stubbornly stupid, so it's hard to see how this will go over. Either way, the past two elections and their practical results have taught me that whatever the outcome, as a whole we pretty much get the president we earn and deserve.

By: small_ruminant

small_ruminant — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:17:45 -0800

Todd Palin

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:19:57 -0800

Ta-daaa! VPILF.COM Vice Presidents I'd Like to Fuck? Is this what Republicans meant by picking her based on her merits? It's nice to see your party show such respect for your own candidate.

By: shiu mai baby

shiu mai baby — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:20:52 -0800

Oh wait -- I just realized you were probably referring to Series of Tubes Ted, and not the most senior member of the Supreme Court. Sorry about that. You were talking about Ted, right?

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:22:55 -0800

It's the evangelicals who've muscled their way into the spotlight for the past 25 years or so. It's the non-evangelicals who have remained conveniently silent about them when it happens to suit their moralizing or political needs.

By: furtive

furtive — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:23:09 -0800

Sarah Palin opposes listing polar bears as a threatened species. Why? Because it could restrict the oil industry that fills her pockets. I can't help but wonder if the republican VP position is now a defacto big-oil position.

By: hydrophonic

hydrophonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:24:51 -0800

Reminds me of the chutzpah & cynicism involved when GHW Bush appointed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court to replace Thurgood Marshall. Or like when Jack Ryan dropped out of the 2004 Senate race against Obama and the GOP replaced him with Alan Keyes. You're going to hear a lot about Palin's toughness, demonstrated by her delivering a speech after her water broke when she was carrying her fifth child. Here's a reply to a Nat Hentoff column (scroll down to the last comment by JakeW) that takes a different view of her actions and contrasts it against her pro-life positions:

Palin made the decision to travel to Texas to a Governor's conference while 36 weeks pregnant, a time during which obstetricians would tell you it’s foolish to travel via plane. Air travel is a known risk for pregnancy complications, which is indeed what happened. The governor, while on a self-promoting trip to deliver a speech, had premature rupture of fetal membranes: her water broke. Call your local OB department and ask what to do if you think that your water has broken. You’ll be advised to seek an immediate hands-on examination by an obstetrician. The baby will be placed on a monitor to make sure it’s OK. Premature rupture of membranes can lead to life-threatening infection and premature delivery. What did Sarah Palin do? She did NOT go to a local hospital and did NOT have her baby checked on a fetal monitor to make sure it was OK. She called her family practice doctor in Alaska for advice. What advice was given isn’t clear, but it’s clearly quoted that she "did not ask for a medical OK to fly". Whether it was OK to fly should be the FIRST question anyone considering traveling by air should have, if they were at all interested in protecting the life of the unborn. Regardless, she decided to give her speech at the conference without having any evaluation other than the long-distance advice of a family practitioner. Her speech was more important to her than making any effort to make sure her unborn child was OK. Then, she decided to fly back to Alaska, an 11-hour trip. In addition, she failed to inform flight personnel that her water had broken.

I don't know much about obstetrics, so I can't really judge whether JakeW's accusations have any merit. But it's an interesting take on a story that's going to be coming up a lot.

By: konolia

konolia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:25:46 -0800

When I casually mentioned this lady as McCain's choice today (while at the gym) three out of three times I was told by each person I was speaking to that they were voting for McCain. No, the deal is that we have a woman who's been governor of of a state (population of which is smaller than Obama's congressional district) for a mere 18 months, and before that was a mayor of a town smaller than the one where Elvis was born. We've got that and the beauty queen thing to go on We have someone who is just about as far away from the Washington beltway as it is possible to get. Someone who has already been known to fight against corruption. Someone who has proved she is a very strong campaigner, even when her own party was not a fan of hers. Joe Sixpack is gonna be thrilled. Guys, I hear you re the experience thing, but I think you'd better not underestimate this woman. It takes a really strong, really forceful person to do what she has done and not only that, at the same time be a parent to five children. She is not only prolife but has a down's syndrome child in a time where many of these children are indeed aborted. People like my son, who up until now was planning to write in a candidate rather than vote for either, are going to at the very least sit up and take notice. I had never even heard of her before today, but I think we'd all better fasten our seatbelts. We ain't seen nuttin' yet. This is gonna be quite a ride.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:26:13 -0800

Palin will talk about getting rid of corruption. Republican corruption? That should be fun to watch.

By: furtive

furtive — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:27:04 -0800

[Todd] Palin's advocacy dovetails neatly with his wife's No. 1 priority: forging a construction contract with private companies to transport natural gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48. The export of natural gas would presumably replace revenue from the state's dwindling oil reserves, which funded 80 percent of the state budget last year.

The oil connections get thicker.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:28:54 -0800

Harriet Miers Jr.

By: bink

bink — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:30:19 -0800

What if she gets pregnant with #6 while in office? What is that supposed to mean? Just that: what if? She is still of childbearing age, had the last one just a few months ago, and hasn't gone four years without being pregnant in a while; I think it's relevant. How would the stresses of such a job combine with a pregnancy? She's had babies while in office in Alaska, but how does that translate to the far bigger job of VP or POTUS?

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:30:21 -0800

MikeMc : I agree that most mainline Christians don't take the Bible literally, but if you don't why bother calling yourself a Christian? I would think Unitarian might be a better choice. Is it just me? Yeah, that would be just you. Christians generally call themselves Christians because they believe that Christ was a divine being. (And I've even run into some who don't believe that and still call themselves Christians.) </atheist>

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:31:22 -0800

Oops, that should be ...is a divine being.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:32:32 -0800

Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep. LOL. The repub defenders are revealing their hidden prejudices, methinks.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:32:54 -0800

It's the non-evangelicals who have remained conveniently silent about them when it happens to suit their moralizing or political needs. Some have remained silent, but I think it's erroneous to claim that you know why. Maybe some people believe they can be worked with, and toned down. Others, like Richard Cizik, have tried changing the structure from within. Others still see idiots like Robertson and Haggard call themselves Christian, then hear their own friends talk about Christians in general as being crazy fascists, and think, "Well, fuck this." Sure, it avoids a moral obligation to right a wrong, but I think it's perfectly natural that some people just don't get involved in the entire discussion - not right, just understandable. I think there's also some complicity in believe that Christians are more easily represented by people like Swaggart than people like Tutu - that it's the hypocritical grandstander, and not the civil activist, who best represents what being Christian means.

By: gerryblog

gerryblog — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:33:16 -0800

Pat Buchanan said that the Palin pick was the "biggest political gamble I believe just about in American political history." Interesting thing to say about a candidate like McCain with a known weakness for craps.

Only recently have McCain's aides urged him to pull back from the pastime. In the heat of the G.O.P. primary fight last spring, he announced on a visit to the Vegas Strip that he was going to the casino floor. When his aides stopped him, fearing a public relations disaster, McCain suggested that they ask the casino to take a craps table to a private room, a high-roller privilege McCain had indulged in before. His aides, with alarm bells ringing, refused again, according to two accounts of the discussion. "He clearly knows that this is on the borderline of what is acceptable for him to be doing," says a Republican who has watched McCain play. "And he just sort of revels in it."

Did McCain roll the dice with the vice presidency?

By: cortex

cortex — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:33:33 -0800

VPILF.COM Oy god.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:33:56 -0800

Just that: what if? She is still of childbearing age You realize you are essentially questioning if a woman can be president or VP because she might get preggers, right?

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:34:21 -0800

MikeMc, you don't know much about Xtianity in the United States, do you?

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:35:19 -0800

We have someone who is just about as far away from the Washington beltway as it is possible to get. This, IMHO, is her strongest selling point and appeals to people, like myself, who are tired of the same tired faces and the same "business as usual" candidates. If only Obama and McCain would swap running mates. Two entrenched Beltway hands vs. a couple of fresh young faces, that would be a race for the ages.

By: Camofrog

Camofrog — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:35:23 -0800

How would the stresses of such a job combine with a pregnancy? Not super well, but I know lots of women who have had babies while holding down a stressful job. Everybody involved is fine. Also, I hope she loses.

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:36:58 -0800

It's the non-evangelicals who have remained conveniently silent about them when it happens to suit their moralizing or political needs. Some have remained silent, but I think it's erroneous to claim that you know why. I didn't claim to know why. Just when.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:37:38 -0800

You realize you are essentially questioning if a woman can be president or VP because she might get preggers, right? No kidding. Yes, being Vice President or President is stressful. I don't know of any job that isn't stressful (and if there is a stress-free job out there, could someone please tell me where it is, because I'm about to snap necks over here, and I am not anywhere near Vice President of the US). Women have been getting pregnant since the beginning of history, and the working world hasn't come to end, so should Palin chose to add to her familiy while holding the office of Vice President, I'm sure everyone will be just fine.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:38:21 -0800

You realize you are essentially questioning if a woman can be president or VP because she might get preggers, right? You realize your party regularly questions if Obama can be president because he is black and has a Muslim-sounding name, right?

By: dollyknot

dollyknot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:40:39 -0800

I think the saddest thing about all of this is, it shows what a crap system democracy is. Well it might be as Churchill stated "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" The problem is, all the followers of Goebbels out there, think language should not be used for communication, the only purpose of language is to manipulate, but wait the Neocons did not use language, they used semiotics, they said go for the Billary vote by waving a beauty queen at us. The low opinion most advertisers and spammers, have for the rest of humanity is indicative of the problem. I vote Chinese.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:40:58 -0800

When I casually mentioned this lady as McCain's choice today (while at the gym) three out of three times I was told by each person I was speaking to that they were voting for McCain. When I casually mentioned this woman as McCain's choice today (while at the gym) three out of three times I was told by each person I was speaking to that they were voting for Obama.

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:41:59 -0800

I agree with DaShiv that this is a risky move with potential huge payoffs for McCain. I think the elections of 2000 and 2004 showed very clearly that winning elections when the electorate is divided so closely between conservatives and progressives isn't about appealing to the mythical "independent voter." It's about mobilizing your base, so more of your people than those of your opponent are fired up to go to the polls. The reason this could pay off so hugely: 1. McCain recognized that social conservatives who were kind of meh about him could be a huge problem. By nominating a social conservative who is on the right side of all those issues, he fires up the base and makes it more likely they'll come out to vote rather than stay home. Her strong anti-choice positions are probably somewhat softened for a lot of moderate Republican women because she supports things like Feminists for Life--a group that pays at least lip service to expanding the resources that unexpectedly pregnant women have so they aren't forced to abort. And true pro-choicers and progressives aren't ever going to vote for McCain anyway, so there's no loss there. 2. McCain has obviously already recognized that not only does he need to get his base to the polls, but he needs to neutralize the enormous groundswell of support that Obama has from the left. I'd argue that his ads talking about how Hillary was passed over aren't really about convincing her disillusioned supporters to vote for him--that'd be a tough sell--but rather to keep them angry and disillusioned enough that they just don't show up at all. His choice of Palin is probably going to be really effective on this score as well. What do you want to bet we're going to see a bunch of the petty, sexist crap** flung at her that was flung at Hillary? Seeing that shit for 2 months won't make a lot of women want to vote for McCain, but it very well may make a lot of them stay home, reasoning that they can't in good conscience vote for either candidate because they're too disgusted with the whole thing. **To all those who say "talking about her derisively for being in a beauty pagent isn't sexist!!", I'd urge you to read onlyconnect's comment, which hits the nail on the head. You don't have to agree with her analysis, but if you weren't someone who thought that Hillary faced a lot of sexist bullshit in the primaries, you're not really the target of this anyway. I was someone who was pissed off at her treatment, and I absolutely see how 2 months of crap from Democrats along those lines would make it hard for me to want to show up and vote, no matter how much I hate McCain. Which is probably exactly what McCain is going for.

By: zarah

zarah — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:42:50 -0800

I watched her speech on CNN this morning and felt like I was being given a cheery yet unpleasant talking to by the church lady. That voice! Poor McCain looks all that much more on death's door standing next to her, even though she'd incredibly prim and oldish for her age. She looks more like my grandmother than my mother, by a long shot. Uhm, wtf is a PUMA, please? I am hoping for the best for you long suffering Americans, I don't know how you can stand the cynical moves, the lies, the smears, and the hypocrisy for such a protracted length of time and all done with so much gusto! The republicans really seem to revel in it, it's gross. You really need to have shortened campaign time frame, written in law (not to mention pencil & paper ballots right across the country). I can only watch a few minutes of this stuff on your news and I start to feeling incredibly anxious, it takes my breath away. I'm gonna have to avoid it altogether now, since poor old Canada is about to be thrust into a federal election and I'll need all my nerve for that particular crock of shit, lol. Best of luck Democrats, you have the best candidate, may he win.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:44:14 -0800

MikeMc, you don't know much about Xtianity in the United States, do you? I try no to. Between Catholics, evangelicals, mainline Protestants, Mormons, Greek Orthodox, Coptics, Amish, Mennonites, Chaldeans etc... it's all too much for me to keep track of.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:44:16 -0800

>It's the non-evangelicals who have remained conveniently silent about them when it happens to suit their moralizing or political needs. >Some have remained silent, but I think it's erroneous to claim that you know why. >I didn't claim to know why. Just when. Huh. Still sounds like you're claiming you know the reasons behind the silence of some, but alright.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:44:36 -0800

You realize you are essentially questioning if a woman can be president or VP because she might get preggers, right? You realize what a misguided question this is, right? Aside from Palin hypothetically bearing a child, you realize the Republican party also does anything it can to make life miserable for almost all working pregnant women and low-income families trying to raise children in the United States, right?

By: matteo

matteo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:45:11 -0800

She believes in Creationism. She's not smart enough for school board. Reagan, Creatonist: 8 years in office. Bush II, Creatonist: 8 years in office Bush I, unclear, but his VP was indeed a proud creationist: 4 years in office. Mondale, Kerry, Edwards, Gore -- all non-Creatonists. see, this is why Republicans get such a kick out of beating you guys, because you always, always get it wrong about this stuff. People like my son, who up until now was planning to write in a candidate rather than vote for either, are going to at the very least sit up and take notice oh, Palin will energize the fetus/Jesus base, nobody here is denying that. McCain, for all his talk about bogus stories of "gooks" (his word, not mine) drawing crosses in the dirt, is indeed secular and has little love for the fundies (who hate him back, despite his solid anti-Roe record). what's your point? everybody knows she's good to energize the fundies (except those who have a problem with her Catholicism, there must still be some anti-Papists out there). (while at the gym) this would not be one of those gyms right next -- or inside -- evangelical church compounds, right? just to have a better idea about where your sample is coming from.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:46:23 -0800

Blaze and TPS, I'm starting to really like you guys. I may have to go lie down somewhere with a cool towel on my forehead.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:47:05 -0800

Is there a source that shows Palin is a young-Earth creationist (Earth is only 6000 years old), or is she just a creationist (God got things going 4.5B years ago)? The two are pretty different. The latter isn't even a scientific question, it's theological. If she wants creationism taught in the classroom (and she does), she is arguing against accepted science and believes in the former. The attempt to conflate the two is a political strategy for some.

By: Floydd

Floydd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:47:17 -0800

The oil connections get thicker. That's a particularly viscous attack.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:48:24 -0800

I don't see a conflict between her claims of feminism and her participation in beauty pageants or pro-life behavior. There's nothing in feminism that directly forbids opportunism, to my knowledge.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:48:44 -0800

Uhm, wtf is a PUMA, please? ENOUGH

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:48:47 -0800

What if she gets pregnant with #6 while in office? This being a prime example of #2 above. If Biden--putting his foot in his mouth as he seems somewhat wont to do when speaking off-the-cuff (remember when he called Obama "articulate"?)--ever said something like this, I think it'd kill my vote. I hate to say that, because I hate McCain with heat of a thousand suns, but I absolutely, positively couldn't vote for a candidate who even suggested something like this. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that I'm not the only female Democrat who feels this way. It'd only take one or two sexist gaffes to keep enough potential voters home to deliver toss-up states like Virginia.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:49:39 -0800

How would the stresses of such a job combine with a pregnancy? She's had babies while in office in Alaska, but how does that translate to the far bigger job of VP or POTUS? Yeah! Or what if she got PMS? She could get hysterical! But seriously, it doesn't seem like any more of an issue than Cheney's bum ticker or McCain's melanoma. This is what we have the 25th Amendment for.

By: bink

bink — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:50:28 -0800

Women have been getting pregnant since the beginning of history, and the working world hasn't come to end Yes, but they tend to take maternity leaves to do it. Does the office have a provision for that? What if there's a war on at the time?

By: Class Goat

Class Goat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:51:24 -0800

Uhm, wtf is a PUMA, please? "Party Unity, My Ass!" It refers to Hillary supporters who don't want to support Obama because they hold a grudge about how Hillary was treated.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:51:41 -0800

bink, did you miss that she didn't take maternity leave for the last one?

By: zarah

zarah — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:52:15 -0800

Uhm, wtf is a PUMA, please? ENOUGH Is that an actual answer (some other acronym I'm ignorant of) or are you yelling at me for some reason? I briefly googled and came up with a sneaker and a wild cat.

By: Critical_Beatdown

Critical_Beatdown — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:52:57 -0800

Either way, the past two elections and their practical results have taught me that whatever the outcome, as a whole we pretty much get the president we earn and deserve.

If the vote hadn't been oursourced to private, for profit, Republican organizations, who view tallying MY VOTE as a "trade secret", I'd agree with you. As it is, I think Gore won. And Kerry did too. (The putzes.)

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:53:06 -0800

If Biden--putting his foot in his mouth as he seems somewhat wont to do when speaking off-the-cuff (remember when he called Obama "articulate"?)--ever said something like this, I think it'd kill my vote. So never mind the billions of dollars Biden set aside for the Violence Against Women Act. He says something stupid off the cuff, that trumps his voting record, which is one of the most pro-women in the Congress? Forgive me if that strikes me as a little short-sighted.

By: zarah

zarah — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:53:45 -0800

"Party Unity, My Ass!" It refers to Hillary supporters who don't want to support Obama because they hold a grudge about how Hillary was treated. Oh, I see! Thank you Class Goat!

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:53:51 -0800

Yes, but they tend to take maternity leaves to do it. Does the office have a provision for that? What if there's a war on at the time? I wonder if elected officials are covered by the Familiy and Medical Leave Act? Anyone know? Beyond that question, I find it funny that the same people who would yell themself blue about hating this woman would also yell at her for taking any leave. We think you're lousy at your job, and you better not take one day off, either!!!

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:54:10 -0800

All this "what if she gets preggers?" talk sounds like some serious false flag bullshit to me.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:54:27 -0800

It takes a really strong, really forceful person to do what she has done and not only that, at the same time be a parent to five children. She is not only prolife but has a down's syndrome child in a time where many of these children are indeed aborted. I think Konolia makes a good point here. Unless she has been extremely wealthy her whole life, this does denote a strong and strong-willed woman who may present a formidable opponent in the race. We would be unwise to underestimate her, in spite of her misguided beauty pageant forays.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:55:52 -0800

If she & McCain promise to campaign in pelts for the rest of the election season, they will have my attention. Not my vote, just my attention.

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:55:53 -0800

Ta-daaa! VPILF.COM Well, that was...fast...

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:57:05 -0800

Is that an actual answer (some other acronym I'm ignorant of) or are you yelling at me for some reason? Sorry about that, didn't mean to yell. There's been a lot of talk about these people here lately, and I'm all Swift Boated out.

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:57:50 -0800

Palin says she felt safe flying to Alaska to have baby

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:00:36 -0800

You realize your party regularly questions if Obama can be president because he is black and has a Muslim-sounding name, right? Really? The Republican Party has said Obama can't be president because he's black? I'm well aware that some voters think that. Then again, some lefty voters believe some dumb things too. You realize what a misguided question this is, right? Someone implies that a women can't be president due to preggers. I point this out, and you say I'm the one who's misguided? Is that really a position you want to take?

By: bink

bink — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:01:52 -0800

For the record, I am in possession of a set of ovaries myself, and wouldn't vote for her in a million years. I'm just asking questions about something that could potentially take someone off a pretty significant job for a few months. There's no woman-hating motive here, I'm just curious about what would happen. What's wrong with wondering about these eventualities?

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:04:14 -0800

How is babby flown?

By: bink

bink — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:04:39 -0800

bink, did you miss that she didn't take maternity leave for the last one? I did miss that. That's exactly the kind of information I was wondering about. Thanks.

By: konolia

konolia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:04:45 -0800

this would not be one of those gyms right next -- or inside -- evangelical church compounds, right? No, it's owned by our local hospital. The three I spoke with were my male spin instructor (who went to a Benedictine college and originally told me he liked Hillary a few months ago), another instructor (married to a military guy) and a friend of mine, also an instructor, who is a casual mostly nonpracticing Catholic and fairly liberal type. That latter person liked Obama originally but was turned off by the brouhaha re his former pastor.

By: wendell

wendell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:05:33 -0800

Would you call this comment about how she played fast and loose with the safety of her unborn child, which unless I am TOTALLY mistaken was the one who we now know has Downs Syndrome, "misogynistic"? I call it one of the scariest things I have ever heard about a politician of either party. (cross posted with in the MeTa callout thread)

By: empath

empath — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:44 -0800

I'm probably late to posting this campaign portrait.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:45 -0800

You realize you are essentially questioning if a woman can be president or VP because she might get preggers, right? You realize McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act of 1994, right?

By: wendell

wendell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:07:30 -0800

I wonder if this was the ONLY incident of her risking the life of an unborn child with Downs. Sounds like a Republican Abortion attempt to me.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:08:32 -0800

Nah, if pro-lifers want abortions they just go ahead and have them.

By: Shepherd

Shepherd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:09:54 -0800

Watching her speech, it's interesting to see how they're trying to snag the "Change" meme by going on about how she and McCain are "the best choice for change in Washington." Also that she spends about 45 seconds talking very vaguely about how she fought some corruption once and then plays the McCain was a POW card.

By: felix betachat

felix betachat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:11:20 -0800

What did Sarah Palin do? She did NOT go to a local hospital and did NOT have her baby checked on a fetal monitor to make sure it was OK. What a maverick.

By: Perplexity

Perplexity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:12:13 -0800

You realize McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act of 1994, right? Is that the one that the Supreme Court found unconstitutional in United States v. Morrison?

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:12:40 -0800

It refers to an astroturf group purporting to be Hillary supporters who don't want to support Obama because they hold a grudge about how Hillary was treated. FTFY

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:13:45 -0800

What if she gets pregnant with #6 while in office? Bink raises a crucial issue. WHO WOULD PRESIDE OVER PROCEDURAL MATTERS IN THE SENATE DURING HER BRIEF MATERNITY LEAVE???? (Assuming that the President pro tempore was also pregnant at the time.) (And also all the junior senators who usually fill in for the President pro tempore to help them learn parliamentary procedure.) (Also, every other senator.) WHAT THEN, AMERICA?!?!? Won't someone think of the procedural matters?

By: From Bklyn

From Bklyn — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:13:47 -0800

Wow I just stepped out for a minute there and, uh, so what did I miss?

By: konolia

konolia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:13:49 -0800

One thing a lot of staunch Democrats and staunch Republicans might be forgetting is that there are an awful lot of people out there who while they might be registered for a party are not necessarily folks interested in the party line. They vote for who they like, not necessarily to forward an agenda (anathema, I know, to any true Party partisan.) So, what I want to know is, how do Joe and Sally Sixpack see a woman like her? THAT will tell you what you need to know re the coming election. Go sit in the Waffle House this weekend, order a cup of coffee, and just listen. Because those are the people who will give us our next administration.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:14:08 -0800

Paul Begala: "When you're 72 and you have had four bouts with cancer, you ought to choose a qualified VP."

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:14:20 -0800

Palin Pleased with Obama's Energy Plan ("This is Google's cache of http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=1384. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Aug 28, 2008 01:01:30 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime." Whaddaya know, it doesn't seem to be on her site any more.)

By: bshort

bshort — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:17:01 -0800

This was a stupid stupid move by McCain. He's just laid waste to the only line of criticism against Obama that had any momentum. Also, it reminds everyone that he's old. And not in a good way.

By: essexjan

essexjan — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:17:02 -0800

I want to know why the hell McCain was fiddling with his wedding ring during her speech. "His eyes hold Edith, his left hand holds his right. What does that hand desire, that he grips it so tight ...?" Joni Mitchell : "Edith and the Kingpin"

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:19:07 -0800

Is that the one that the Supreme Court found unconstitutional in United States v. Morrison? Nope. The VAWA is still United States Law. Only the civil rights remedy of VAWA was struck down. Which you could have learned if you just clicked the link to the VAWA in the Wikipedia article you linked to, unless you were deliberately misrepresenting it.

By: crickets

crickets — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:20:16 -0800

Palin is quite obviously a wacky choice. But the qualities she does have as a pro-life, pro-oil, creationist female are pretty attractive to the Republican base right now, who still aren't convinced McCain is the man for the job. Sure she's under a cloud of scandal, but what Republican isn't, amirite? Here is my theory: Rumor has it that McCain wanted to pick Lieberman. This might have won him some "change" voters, but would have done very little to appease the Republican base. I think that the heads of the Republican party forced Palin on McCain not because she was the best candidate to run against the Democrats, but because she's attractive to the right. I think they're punting on this election altogether and guaranteeing that whatever happens, the Republican right won't be so pissed off at being marginalized in 2008 that they won't be there in 2012.

By: jim in austin

jim in austin — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:20:43 -0800

Bring out your disenfranchised Clinton supporters! [CLANG] Bring out your disenfranchised Clinton supporters! [CLANG] Bring out your disenfranchised Clinton supporters! [CLANG] ...

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:21:22 -0800

Woah, talk about some heat in here today. All I know is that I think she should give Kim Campbell a call and maybe back out before it's too late.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:22:00 -0800

Someone implies that a women can't be president due to preggers. I point this out, and you say I'm the one who's misguided? I also point out that the Republican Party has a long history of being against career-track mommies in general, at all levels of the workforce. Aside from it being misguided for you to suggest that it is wrong to ask reasonable questions how Palin would handle her putative and significant vice-presidential responsibilities while bringing a child to term, it is also misguided, because the question sidesteps the long, misogynistic history of the party she is affiliated with. At the very least, we should examine the misogynistic record of her presidential running mate, John McCain, who voted against the Violence Against Women Act, skipped on voting to provide equal pay to women (and is on record for stating he would have otherwise voted against providing equal pay to women, had he showed up), voted to gut the Family and Medical Leave Act, and has voted against providing reproductive healthcare and education to young American women. This is in addition to promising to do what he can to overturn reproduction choice laws. You are misguided.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:23:14 -0800

I'd just like to point out the Palin is not the governor of just any state, she is governor of Alaska. Why does is this important? Well, Alaska is bought and paid for by the oil companies. Oil money, subsidized with federal money, is what runs the state government - not income tax. A governor of Alaska doesn't have to worry about tax rates, balancing budgets or social spending - it's already dialed in. Alaska, per capita, is one of the wealthiest states in the union. Now compare this to other states, like, say, Ohio. Ohio is dealing with rampant unemployment, a mortgage crisis and yearly budget shortfalls funded by a declining tax-base. In Ohio, as in other states, the governor's office faces some real issues and has to show some real leadership. Yes, she's a governor, but no, that doesn't amount to much "executive experience." If anything the Mayor of Dayton, Ohio has more executive experience - and if not, the Mayors of Chicago, New York, hell, even Cleveland do. It's easy to dismiss criticisms of her lack of experience by claiming she's more experience than "Obama and Biden combined," but ultimately this is just empty rhetoric to back up a empty point.

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:23:51 -0800

Astro Zombie, I really hate it when people do the "if X wins the primary, then I'm gonna vote for X's opponent, so THERE!" thing, so I recognize the frustration in your question, but... yeah. I don't particularly like to admit it, I don't think it's necessarily right (in the sense of optimizing my life), but I'm being honest because I think this is an essential component of the strategy that McCain is trying to use. Casual, off-the-cuff sexism bothers me a lot, and I would have a really hard time overcoming my gut dislike of someone who said something like that. Combine it with the general PITA it is to vote--you know, waking up early, standing in line for an hour or two, having to work late because you got in late--and I think it's possible that my personal disappointment and dislike of a particular candidate on a ticket would lead me to not vote. I guess I'm not saying it to point out "la la la I'm a special snowflake, PANDER TO ME"--let's be honest, one vote has a vanishingly small probability of actually deciding the election, Florida in 2000 aside--but rather to explain why I think the choice of Palin was probably a really canny one on McCain's part. A lot of people on metafilter didn't really seem to grok why so many women were angry about Hillary's treatment during the primaries, and while respecting that people can have different views on whether a specific incident or phrase is sexist or not, I think it's counterproductive to pretend that the issue doesn't exist. I really, really hope that the Democratic party doesn't fall into the trap that I think McCain has set for them by having a sexist foot-in-mouth moment every couple of days between now and November. I am not, however, particularly hopeful on that point.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:24:27 -0800

Is that the one that the Supreme Court found unconstitutional in United States v. Morrison? You mean that one that was reauthorized in 2000 and again in 2005? Signed into law by Bush? Yeah, it was that one. The Supreme Court ruling only ruled out the civil rights remedy, not the funding. You know, you could, like, read the Wikipedia article.

By: wendell

wendell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:24:49 -0800

So, what I want to know is, how do Joe and Sally Sixpack see a woman like her? ... Because those are the people who will give us our next administration. And if the election were held the same day McCain made the announcement, it might just turn the election. But if the Sixpacks bother to learn anything about Sarah beyond "Woman Governor with Maverick Image!" in the next two months, not so much.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:28:00 -0800

Am I the only one thinking he is going for Laura Roslin and the BSG vote? I have never been more proud of Metafilter than I was when I read this comment. Word up, well_balanced. I came here to post the same thing. *Waves BSG Flag*

By: wendell

wendell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:28:05 -0800

George W. Bush had a lot more "executive experience" than Sarah Palin in a much bigger (in every way but land mass) and complex state. What does that prove?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:29:16 -0800

So, what I want to know is, how do Joe and Sally Sixpack see a woman like her? THAT will tell you what you need to know re the coming election. Go sit in the Waffle House this weekend, order a cup of coffee, and just listen. Because those are the people who will give us our next administration. My guess is that they will be laughing and shaking their heads. And voting for either Obama or Barr.

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:29:48 -0800

A lot of people on metafilter didn't really seem to grok why so many women were angry about Hillary's treatment during the primaries, and while respecting that people can have different views on whether a specific incident or phrase is sexist or not, I think it's counterproductive to pretend that the issue doesn't exist. Any woman who was pro-Clinton and then decides to switch to McCain over this has pretty much earned her second-class citizenship.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:33:42 -0800

When I casually mentioned this lady as McCain's choice today (while at the gym) three out of three times I was told by each person I was speaking to that they were voting for McCain. HOLY SHIT! You found McCain voters in FAYETTEVILLE? Alert the news! At 11: Rumors of Obama supporter in San Francisco.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:34:35 -0800

Any woman who was pro-Clinton and then decides to switch to McCain over this has pretty much earned her second-class citizenship. Classy. In terms of people switching over to McCain after Hilary lost the primary, I say let them go. They aren't voting on any real issues, they aren't really involved in any process but their own, and more importantly, there aren't really that many of them.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:35:03 -0800

You are misguided. LOL. I think women deserve to be considered for president and VP, regardless of their potential for getting pregnant. How terribly misguided of me.

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:35:52 -0800

troybob, as I pointed out in my original comment, I think it's too simplistic to assume McCain is trying to win over pro-Clinton voters. I think he's trying to get Obama's people (or hell, maybe just the media) to play the same game as in the primaries, which may have the effect of making pro-Clinton voters decide to just stay home. (Also, that comment you made? About a woman who votes in a way you disagree with having "pretty much earned her second-class citizenship"? That's exactly the sort of shit that will create said backlash.)

By: winna

winna — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:37:18 -0800

You know, I think there's also a very good case to be made that this may motivate Hillary Clinton to work even harder to elect Barack Obama. What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. Is she supposed to immolate herself on a giant damn float that says I LOVE SENATOR OBAMA while singing the Star Spangled Banner? Will that do it? Or will people carp that she should have written PRESIDENT Obama so that we all know she's rlly, rlly serious this time?

By: sloe

sloe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:37:44 -0800

"George W. Bush had a lot more "executive experience" than Sarah Palin in a much bigger (in every way but land mass) and complex state. What does that prove?" nothing a necessary criteria does not mean it is a sufficient criteria you can argue experience is not a necessary factor for competency, but I don't think anyone is arguing it is the only factor and thus guarantees success

By: infinitywaltz

infinitywaltz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:38:42 -0800

I agree that most mainline Christians don't take the Bible literally, but if you don't why bother calling yourself a Christian? The Christians that don't take the the Bible as a literal record of fact are the same Christians who believe that God must be smart enough to use metaphors.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:40:26 -0800

What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm pretty well convinced that no matter what she does or how hard she works, plenty of people will be ready to blame her first if Obama loses November. And that will be really annoying. It's Obama's campaign now.

By: cellphone

cellphone — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:40:51 -0800

What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. Is she supposed to immolate herself on a giant damn float that says I LOVE SENATOR OBAMA while singing the Star Spangled Banner? Will that do it? Or will people carp that she should have written PRESIDENT Obama so that we all know she's rlly, rlly serious this time? Well, it would certainly be better than standing in front of the classroom, shuffling her feet and stammering "I um support Barack Obama for president ok I'm going to go home now" like she basically did this week. I think the idea is that she cares more about her own ascension to presidency than her party or purported ideals winning.

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:41:38 -0800

I think it's too simplistic to assume McCain is trying to win over pro-Clinton voters. I didn't speak to McCain's motives at all. About a woman who votes in a way you disagree with... I didn't apply this to any woman who votes in a way I disagree with. Just those who would shift their vote to McCain 'over this' (e.g., for this reason).

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:42:20 -0800

i.e., not e.g. ugh

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:42:32 -0800

"(Also, that comment you made? About a woman who votes in a way you disagree with having "pretty much earned her second-class citizenship"? That's exactly the sort of shit that will create said backlash.)" A woman who votes for a candidate who wants to make her a second-class citizen because of some perceived imperfection in the character of the candidates who are working to make her a fully-equal citizen pretty fucking much deserves to get what she voted for.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:45:56 -0800

Any woman who was pro-Clinton and then decides to switch to McCain over this has pretty much earned her second-class citizenship. Youch! I'm suddenly feeling better about my comments in this thread.

By: 235w103

235w103 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:46:29 -0800

Um, one thing that has sort of struck me- apparently it's a big thing that she didn't terminate her last pregnancy after learning that the child would have Downs syndrome? Like, Republicans think this is a huge deal? I know at least two people who have done the same thing, people who were actually okay with abortion in general. I don't know ANYONE who, after planning to carry a pregnancy to term, changed their mind because of something like that; I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I've just never met anyone who has done that. I just think it's really bizarre that people think it's a crazy big deal that a person who doesn't believe in getting an abortion didn't get an abortion. Of course she didn't get an abortion, she was NEVER going to get an abortion, and the idea that people think it would be rare for this to happen generally makes me feel depressed about how people feel about people with learning disabilities in general.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:47:06 -0800

"I'm pretty well convinced that no matter what she does or how hard she works, plenty of people will be ready to blame her first if Obama loses November." Which is a shame, because her speech (and her husband's speech, since he's often also labeled as a submariner) was pretty fantastic and hit exactly the right notes regarding appeals to HER base, which is more important than the broader coterie of folks who already support Obama. "Well, it would certainly be better than standing in front of the classroom, shuffling her feet and stammering "I um support Barack Obama for president ok I'm going to go home now" like she basically did this week. I think the idea is that she cares more about her own ascension to presidency than her party or purported ideals winning." Dude, that's totally bullshit given the speeches that she's made. She was enthusiastic, she was blunt, she was pretty damn brilliant in reaching HER audience, which is a significant subset of likely-Democratic voters. She did exactly what she was supposed to and exactly what she needed to do. I was about to complain to TPS that I thought the idea of her being less-than-gracious was something that was only being kept alive by idiots on CNN, who clearly came to her speech with their frames already hung, but c'mon.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:48:01 -0800

A woman who votes for a candidate who wants to make her a second-class citizen because of some perceived imperfection in the character of the candidates who are working to make her a fully-equal citizen pretty fucking much deserves to get what she voted for. Either that OR your claim that the Republicans and McCain want to make women second-class citizens is just blowhard partisan rhetoric.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:48:57 -0800

Well, it would certainly be better than standing in front of the classroom, shuffling her feet and stammering "I um support Barack Obama for president ok I'm going to go home now" like she basically did this week. Oh, come on. Her speech was great. But I do agree with the pink superhero: this is Obama's campaign now - if he loses it isn't Hilary's fault, but his own.

By: Dipsomaniac

Dipsomaniac — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:49:34 -0800

It's nice that she didn't abort her pregnancy even after finding out the fetus had Down's Syndrome. Good for her, happy happy. You know what's even nicer? That she CHOSE not to abort. That not aborting wasn't simply mandated. Anyone who thinks that anti-abortion leanings give you the right to get all up in others' vaginas needs an attitude adjustment.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:49:34 -0800

Newsweek writes that Palin “felt kind of bad she couldn’t support a woman, but she didn’t like Clinton’s ‘whining.’”^*

By: Daily Alice

Daily Alice — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:49:57 -0800

So, what I want to know is, how do Joe and Sally Sixpack see a woman like her? I participate in an online group which is pretty much the polar opposite of this one politically - it's a group for mothers in Charlotte, NC. There are a few of us token lib'ruls, but most of the membership is cheerily conservative, with Bible verses or quotes like "Only two forces ever agreed to die for you: Jesus Christ and the American Soldier" in their signature lines. They're already saying that Palin is "more experienced" than Obama, because it's executive experience, or something. They like her because she's pro-life, and a mother, and didn't abort her Down Syndrome baby, and that's enough to make them ignore any possible questions about her qualifications. I'm not feeling very optimistic about North Carolina turning blue this year.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:50:17 -0800

"Either that OR your claim that the Republicans and McCain want to make women second-class citizens is just blowhard partisan rhetoric." Well, since it's not (based on the legislative, judicial and executive priorities and actions of the party), I'll take it that you agree with me.

By: Dipsomaniac

Dipsomaniac — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:50:41 -0800

jsonic: "Either that OR your claim that the Republicans and McCain want to make women second-class citizens is just blowhard partisan rhetoric." McCain wants to remove from women a right that nobody would ever propose taking from men. Sounds like a second-class strategy to me.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:50:54 -0800

Scandal-Plagued Ted Stevens Endorses Palin For VP, Says He’s ‘Known And Worked’ With Her ‘For Over A Decade’

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:52:11 -0800

Palin denies global warming is man-made and is a "champion for Big Oil."

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:55:16 -0800

I was curious who's behind VPILF. I guess I was hoping it wouldn't be an Obama supporter. Alas, no such luck. Two clues from the top of the page: 1) masthead URL: http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/[...] 2) "Brought to you by the same people who gave you: TheMovieSpoiler.com" Alexa info for TheMovieSpoiler.com:

Kaiser, Dan 6111 97th Ave Ct W Tacoma, WA 98467 US Phone: +1 253 565 XXXX dnksr [at] mac.com

note: web.me.com and mac.com are apple services that host user content. So dnksr@mac.com and web.me.com/dnksr/ are likely the same person. ...and a cached news article from the Tacoma News Tribune hints at Mr. Kaiser's political affiliation:

The stories behind the customized vanity license plates IAN DEMSKY; ian.demsky@thenewstribune.com; 235-597-8872 Published: February 27th, 2008 01:00 AM [...] Dan Kaiser of University Place didn’t fare as well. State officials revoked his plate joking about President Bush. It read “F DUBYA.”

Congrats, Dan Kaiser, you're a dick.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:55:19 -0800

Well, since it's not (based on the legislative, judicial and executive priorities and actions of the party) Based on your interpretation of their positions. Many people of both sexes don't agree with your framing.

By: AngerBoy

AngerBoy — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:56:29 -0800

@ijoshua: It's pronounced "pale-in". As in "McCain's VP choice will pale in comparison with Obama's."

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:57:08 -0800

It seems to me that the pick is at least partly based on two misconceptions: 1. I've seen some Republicans attribute their losses in the 2006 midterms to voters being fed up with corruption, so Palin's whistleblowing was probably a plus for her. I'm not convinced that corruption was all that important an issue in 2006, and it's not a major issue this year. 2. It drastically overestimates the number of "Hillary voters." If there's really this block of 18 million pissed-off Hillary supporters, why haven't they each chipped in $2 and retired her campaign debt? This was a smart pick today because it took attention off Obama's great speech last night, but picking an underqualified unknown (even to McCain: Palin Recently Said She Had Met McCain Only a Few Times) demonstrates poor judgment. If he wanted to pick someone else and was pressured into picking her, that demonstrates an inability to command. The vice president should be qualified to step in as president from Day One. Biden is, Palin isn't. Picking Palin will only affect McCain's chances of winning the election; there's no indication she'll be able to help run the country. Obama's pick of Biden shows better judgement: Biden would be an asset in governing the country, and could help Obama's chances in the election.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:58:57 -0800

"Based on your interpretation of their positions. Many people of both sexes don't agree with your framing." Many people of both sexes believe that the earth wasn't formed roughly 4.5 billion years ago. As with your example, those people are wrong. Show me someone who believes that GOP policies are better for women and I'll show you a fool or a liar.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:59:09 -0800

McCain wants to remove from women a right that nobody would ever propose taking from men. Sounds like a second-class strategy to me. Oh, so being against the killing of unborn life means McCain is anti-women. I guess that makes those who support the killing of unborn life anti-everybody.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:59:32 -0800

Based on your interpretation of their positions Based more on roll calls for Senate legislation, and actual policy, you mean.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:59:53 -0800

Scandal-Plagued Ted Stevens Endorses Palin For VP Oooohhhh, that's gotta hurt. Stevens probably hates her and is trying to take her down with him.

By: jamstigator

jamstigator — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:01:24 -0800

Her primary four qualities, from McCain's perspective: 1) she's anti-choice/pro-life; 2) she's a she; 3) there isn't any video footage of her dissing McCain, as there is for just about every other person in this country that anyone's ever heard of; and 4) she's kinda hawt (although he won't admit this one, of course). The big downside is that she completely eviscerates McCain's "experience is important" message, which is really the only message he had that was working at all among voters who aren't already pinned to the Republican Party because of social issues like keeping gays from getting married and keeping women from access to safe abortions. I'm not objective here, but that one big downside seems to me to outweigh all the positives combined, because that leaves McCain with a whole lotta nothing to work with.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:02:15 -0800

Based on your interpretation of their positions. Many people of both sexes don't agree with your framing Voted against a law protecting women from violence. Voted against making certain women got equal pay. Has consistently voted antichoice. I'm sorry, this is not merely an issue of framing. This sort of voting really does relegate someone to a second-class status. Not everything is just a matter of opinion.

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:02:42 -0800

Maria Bartiromo Talks With Sarah Palin

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:03:27 -0800

Oh, so being against the killing of unborn life means McCain is anti-women. McCain voting against the Violence Against Women Act is anti-women. McCain voting against equal pay for women is anti-women. McCain voting against family leave is anti-women. McCain voting against reproductive healthcare and education is anti-women. McCain being against reproductive choice is just the nail in the coffin. Your continued, conscious decision to ignore McCain's voting record on all of these issues as they concern women is also anti-women.

By: konolia

konolia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:03:32 -0800

For the record, Fayetteville is filled with Democrats.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:04:00 -0800

Who cares if she's a woman, who cares if she's experienced. That's not what the election is about. If the Dems spend all their time trying to show why she's not a good VP pick, they're focusing on the wrong things. Obama's speech last night was about moving forward, and not letting these little things distract us. There are much bigger issues then anything represented in the Palin pick.

By: Shepherd

Shepherd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:04:10 -0800

jsonic, you move those goalposts just 10% faster and I'm pretty sure you'll start travelling in time.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:04:19 -0800

"I'm sorry, this is not merely an issue of framing. This sort of voting really does relegate someone to a second-class status. Not everything is just a matter of opinion." If I recall correctly, jsonic's also the guy who freaked out and got all belligerent because some woman said that she'd kick a guy in the balls if he asked to grope her breasts, so jsonic might not have the best grasp of gender equality.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:04:50 -0800

Oh, so being against the killing of unborn life means McCain is anti-women. Yes.

By: Perplexity

Perplexity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:06:31 -0800

From this, just posted: Maria Bartiromo Talks With Sarah Palin: "Q: How important is drilling in Alaska to ease the burden of high oil prices on Americans? A: Not only to ease the high prices of energy in America but also for national security reasons. Drilling in Alaska is going to be a matter of life and death. Up here in Alaska, we're bursting with billions of barrels of oil that are warehoused underground. We have to pump [this oil] and feed our hungry markets instead of relying on the foreign sources of energy. " LOL.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:10:18 -0800

cell divide for the win. I'm outta here.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:13 -0800

jamstigator: The big downside is that she completely eviscerates McCain's 'experience is important' message, Totally. One of McCain's assertions was that someone who hasn't been to Iraq, and been there recently, can have no grasp of the proper way to handle the situation there. Well looky who that's applying to now. I'm not objective here, but that one big downside seems to me to outweigh all the positives combined, Exact-a-mundo, I agree with you 100%. As an Obama supporter I am very pleased with McCain's choice.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:16 -0800

Oooohhhh, that's gotta hurt. Stevens probably hates her and is trying to take her down with him. "In 2006, Sen. Ted Stevens endorsed Palin. Last month, after Stevens was indicted, Palin refused to call for his resignation, saying that he had 'dedicated his life to the betterment of the state.' She had previously called for another indicted lawmaker to resign."^* And she touts herself as a reformer and corruption fighter.

By: jamstigator

jamstigator — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:12:22 -0800

Incidentally, I'd love to see a woman elected to either the prez or VP office. (I'm a white male.) When I was in the Army and overseas, I'd get my local ballots. This was before the internet though, so I knew none of the people on the ballots or what they stood for, nothing. Yet I did not want my vote to not count for *anything*, so I looked for all the Democrat females and voted for all of them, wherever there was one. Where there was no woman running, I picked the Democrat. So I blindly voted Democrat-but-weighted-toward-women, so that at least my vote would have some purpose behind it, addressing the one inequality in our society that I could identify solely based on the names of the candidates. Since that young age, I've always wanted to see a woman elected to our highest offices. But it has to be the right woman, at least for me. Just any woman won't do, because it'll be a historic precedent when it happens, and you don't want the first woman to accomplish the feat to make it harder for the women of the future by being anything less than competent. This particular woman isn't the one. I was fine with Hillary, would in fact have preferred her to Obama, but life goes on, she was the loser, and I'm still a Democrat, so Obama it is. Maybe this is McCain's way of saying, 'If you vote for two *dudes* then you're a fag, so vote for me and the hot chick and no one will think that." Sadly, that might even work in some parts of rural Bubbaville.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:14:09 -0800

Voted against a law protecting women from violence. Did he possibly think there are already laws against abusing people? Remember, just because a bill has a positive sounding name, like the "Patriot Act", does not make voting against it wrong. McCain voting against equal pay for women is anti-women Or maybe he thinks it's not a politician's job to determine wages through law. McCain voting against family leave is anti-women Or maybe he thinks it's not a politican's job to specify employment contracts between an individual and a company. McCain being against reproductive choice is just the nail in the coffin Or maybe he wants to stop people from killing unborn life.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:15:09 -0800

What is McCain Thinking? One Alaskan’s Perspective. (Includes a panoramic photo of downtown Wasilla, Alaska.)

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:15:18 -0800

I think sour cream is clairivoyant. What will your role be at the upcoming convention? I'm doing a pro-life speech. Four months ago, my fifth child was born with Down syndrome…so I value innocent life. It took many months for me to get my arms around the idea of, first, having a fifth child at my age, but also knowing that my child would have an extra chromosome. But I prayed the whole time, "God, just prepare me, prepare my heart and prepare my family." And talk about confirmation of that prayer, I mean, Trig is just—he is to me—absolutely perfect. And everybody's in love with him, and he's the sweetest little baby in the world.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:15:41 -0800

"Maybe this is McCain's way of saying, 'If you vote for two *dudes* then you're a fag, so vote for me and the hot chick and no one will think that."" If I hadn't blown my irony vote in 2000, I would vote for McCain with that slogan. Even better if he phrased it "Vote 4 2 dudez=UR fag." I can just see Wolf Blitzer seriously contemplating whether that would win him the 4chan vote.

By: Dipsomaniac

Dipsomaniac — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:15:44 -0800

jsonic: "Oh, so being against the killing of unborn life means McCain is anti-women. I guess that makes those who support the killing of unborn life anti-everybody." I guess you're just being a dick, right? Because that's not what I wrote. What I said was that if anyone proposed a law that forced men to be a life-support system against their will, they'd be laughed at. But, yes. Wanting the US Constitution to be amended to specifically take away women's rights based on the condition of their uterus IS anti-woman, REGARDLESS of the 'flaw' that you think needs correcting.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:16:24 -0800

This could all be very horrible.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:17:57 -0800

Interpret them as you will, jsonic; nonetheless, those votes had a cumulative effect of rekegating women to a second-class position in society. I don't care what logic goes into making decisions that are bad for people. They're still decisions that are bad for people.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:18:06 -0800

Jsonic: Lot of maybes there, and the problem is that all of those things could be true and it would still add up to a net effect of making women second-class citizens. Frankly, I don't care if he votes against those bills because his pagan idol Yojo tells him to—it still adds up to being against the interests of women.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:18:16 -0800

relegating

By: Rumple

Rumple — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:19:23 -0800

This choice makes me think a couple of things: -- McCain has given up on the "experience" attacks - probably his polling shows it was getting traction, probably also he waited to see Bill Clinton's strong support of Obama and also was influenced by the choice of Biden. In this sense, the choice is a huge win for Obama because it means they forced a sub-optimal choice onto McCain, a choice that seems entirely about "solidifying the base", almost none of whom would vote meaning I think McCain will now try to move to the centre which will expose him mightily form both sides - he loses points for judgment from some, will lose policy support from others, and may only make marginal gains in the centre. -- The Republicans fear Obama's rhetorical skills such that they needed a nuclear bomb of publicity to try to nullify his acceptance speech which even had hard core Republican commentators wetting their pants, and quite likely would have been the most attention many voters & the media would have paid to Obama until the debates. So -- a short term choice designed for short term tactica reasons, not strategic ones within the context of the election as a whole, and one that reveals a deep, abiding Republican fear of Obama's ability to inspire.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:19:37 -0800

What is McCain Thinking? One Alaskan’s Perspective. And prominent in that photo of downtown Wasilla is the 'Mugshot Saloon.' How very appropriate.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:20:19 -0800

If I recall correctly, jsonic's also the guy who freaked out and got all belligerent because some woman said that she'd kick a guy in the balls if he asked to grope her breasts, so jsonic might not have the best grasp of gender equality. LOL. You think violence is ok if someone offends you. But only if you're a girl. Wonderful 'gender equality' you support there.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:20:47 -0800

Arguably, the greatest tragedy of Palin's fifth child is that name she saddled the poor guy with. Like, he's already got enough to deal with—he doesn't need people assuming that his parents are yuppie assholes too.

By: lampoil

lampoil — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:23:20 -0800

I can't believe it took hundreds of comments for someone (235w103 and Dipsomaniac) to question the idea of Palin's choice to have her youngest son as some sort of paragon of her militant anti-choice ideals. It's completely irrelevant to questions of reproductive rights. She's one person, whose right it was to choose, and she made her choice, and anything beyond that is none of our business. And that's how choice works. I mean, I see how it would matter to pro-life voters who get wrapped up in the issue emotionally and it warms their little hearts. But it doesn't really mean anything, legally. Like I've said here before, pro-life women have babies sometimes and also abortions sometimes. So do pro-choice women. It's got nothing to do with other women's pregnancies. I've been perplexed about this all day, and I've been trying to find something on the internet that answers my totally honest question: Has Sarah Palin ever done anything pro-life/anti-choice? Everywhere I've looked has shown concrete examples of her position on gay rights, energy, the environment, etc.--you know, things like signing and vetoing laws, rescinding appointments, selling jets, and so on. On abortion, it's "she is pro-life" and nothing more. So far, it looks like her pro-life creds are: 1. Saying she's pro-life; other people saying she's pro-life. 2. Being a member of FFL. 3. Bearing children. Those aren't really executive actions. It's not that I doubt that she's anti-choice. I'm sure she is; it's not like I've seen evidence to the contrary. But I can't help feel like I'm missing something. Am I? Seriously, I want to know.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:23:32 -0800

I'm thinking they going to make the race ENTIRELY about abortion. They have nothing else, bar experience (busted) and Obama being a sekret muslim (never overtly stated, getting a bit tired). And if they win they will be in a position to do something about it. I think they have a pretty good shot.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:25:32 -0800

I guess that makes those who support the killing of unborn life anti-everybody. Also, who supports the "killing" of "unborn life"? Removing your scientifically unsound terms here, people who are pro-choice aren't marching around crowing about how friggin' awesome abortions are. I'd suggest reading up on what pro-choice means before digging an even deeper hole.

By: showbiz_liz

showbiz_liz — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:25:59 -0800

What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. Is she supposed to immolate herself on a giant damn float that says I LOVE SENATOR OBAMA while singing the Star Spangled Banner? Will that do it? Or will people carp that she should have written PRESIDENT Obama so that we all know she's rlly, rlly serious this time? This is not an issue of "Clinton should be sucking up to her new lord and master Obama." If she cares about her party at all, it makes sense for her to address her voters who might now abandon her party and her ideals.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:26:03 -0800

**To all those who say "talking about her derisively for being in a beauty pagent isn't sexist!!", I'd urge you to read onlyconnect's comment, which hits the nail on the head. You don't have to agree with her analysis, but if you weren't someone who thought that Hillary faced a lot of sexist bullshit in the primaries, you're not really the target of this anyway. I did read it, I do think Hillary faced a lot of sexist bullshit in the primaries, and I still disprove strongly of her for being in a beauty pageant. Beauty pageants are the antithesis of everything I stand for as a feminist, and I do. not. want. people who participate in their bullshit to represent me as a woman, and as a human being.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:26:12 -0800

From the Mudflats ("Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics") blog (to which kirkaracha links):

“Before her meteoric rise to political success as governor, just two short years ago Sarah Palin was the mayor of Wasilla. I had a good chuckle at MSN.com’s claim that she had been the mayor of ‘Wasilla City’. It is not a city. Just Wasilla. Wasilla is the heart of the Alaska ‘Bible belt’ and Sarah was raised amongst the tribe that believes creationism should be taught in our public schools, homosexuality is a sin, and life begins at conception. She’s a gun-toting, hang ‘em high conservative. Remember…this is where her approval ratings come from. There is no doubt that McCain again is making a strategic choice to appeal to a particular demographic - fundamentalist right-wing gun-owning Christians. And Republican bloggers are already gushing about how she has ‘more executive experience’ than Obama does! Above is a picture of lovely downtown Wasilla, for those of you unfamiliar with the area. Behind the Mug-Shot Saloon (the first bar I visited when I moved to Alaska long ago) is a little strip mall. There are street signs in Wasilla with bullet holes in them. Wasilla has a population of about 5500 people, and 1979 occupied housing units. This is where your potential Vice President was two short years ago. Can you imagine her negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Discussing foreign policy? Understanding non-Alaskan issues? Frankly, I don’t even know if she’s ever been out of the country. She may ‘get’ Alaska, but there are only a half a million people here. Don’t get me wrong….I love Alaska with all my heart. I’m just saying.”

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:29:48 -0800

"relegating" You were first because you misspelled! "LOL. You think violence is ok if someone offends you. But only if you're a girl. Wonderful 'gender equality' you support there." Yeah, y'know how your first comment in that thread was so out-of-line that it got deleted, and how you spent, like, 30 more comments getting all apoplectic without understanding anything of the underlying issue? It makes your defender-of-women act here seem pretty hollow.

By: matteo

matteo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:31:05 -0800

plenty of people will be ready to blame her first if Obama loses November. And that will be really annoying. It's Obama's campaign now. why, of course. Hillary only wrote the script for the GOP's strategy against Obama, covered him in racist filth ("hardworking Americans, white Americans") allowing the McCain camp to step back and simply watch, letting her test the limits of you can and can not say against a black candidate (see Ferraro's statement, Bill's outburst) and take the heat for it. she wrote the plan, she's a star in the GOP's ads, she got herself an ovation earlier today during Palin's speech, but you're right, you're not running. there will be time to figure out who lost this thing that was almost impossible to lose given Bush's numbers and Congressional races polls and McCain's own long list of problems. there will be time, about three years exactly. then, Sen. Clinton will be more than welcome to run again in the Democratic primaries in 2012 and try to unseat McCain/Palin. she's not exactly a shoo-in for the 2012 nomination either, because some of the bad mojo from 2008 may indeed get stuck on her, too, but we'll see. me, I'd advise the Democrats to run a non-liberal guy from the South next time, though. "Either that OR your claim that the Republicans and McCain want to make women second-class citizens is just blowhard partisan rhetoric." no, that's the gays -- they're the ones who thanks to the GOP can't marry like straight people can, because their love is filthy and immoral and abnormal and can not be sanctioned by the government. women, in the GOP's own platform, are the ones who can't decide what happens once they get pregnant -- Antonin Scalia decides for them.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:34:56 -0800

And matteo nails it.

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:35:40 -0800

A woman who votes for a candidate who wants to make her a second-class citizen because of some perceived imperfection in the character of the candidates who are working to make her a fully-equal citizen pretty fucking much deserves to get what she voted for. Well, I guess by your reasoning, women are pretty much just fucked either way, then, since my original hypothetical was about not voting for someone who made a comment implying that women weren't suitable for holding the office of the Presidency solely by virtue of the fact that they have functioning reproductive organs--which, hello, I'd call a pretty strong statement about women being second-class citizens. I'm not talking about some random, unimportant "inperfection" in the character of the candidates like being a furry; I'm speaking specifically about what might happen if one of them starts spewing out sexist crap as talking points against Palin. (I guess you could believe that one's policies and one's beliefs are totally separate, but I have a hard time buying that.) If you're making the argument that women deserve to be second-class citizens because they fail to vote for the candidate who is less bad on the issue (and honestly, anyone who thinks that Biden is some sort of paragon of pro-choice pro-woman policies has not investigated his record closely enough--he's worlds better than McCain, but certainly has some bad positions on reproductive rights, and VAWA doesn't just erase that), that's a different argument. I tend to believe that no woman "deserves" to be a second-class citizen, but I'm also one of the killjoys who hates rape jokes about Ann Coulter, so what the hell do I know.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:37:22 -0800

Y'know, I realize it's silly, but by now I just want the Dems to win so that matteo will shut up for ten minutes (before attacking Obama for not being socialist enough). How's Berlusconi treatin' you?

By: Zambrano

Zambrano — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:37:50 -0800

600th.

By: nicwolff

nicwolff — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:39:13 -0800

Remember, Obama is a poker player - and I think he just put McCain all-in on a weak flop. Could pay, but it's a bad bet.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:42:54 -0800

If someone actively sells out not only their rights, but the rights of others, they don't necessarily deserve the bad things that will happen. But they shouldn't expect the rest of us to be throwing them a freaking pity party anytime soon, either.

By: i_am_joe's_spleen

i_am_joe's_spleen — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:43:57 -0800

"All eyes turned to the masked rider, who then removed the helmet and *gasp* revealed herself to be a woman, with long hair spilling down about her shoulders." Just shows your political naivety. You've never heard of "helmet head", have you.

By: Rumple

Rumple — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:44:42 -0800

The repugnant VPILF site has posts dating back to last week, which is interesting (is it a new domain with back dated posts?). I think this selection is also de facto acknowledgment that the PUMAs are a republican trojan horse with Palin meant to hoover up their support.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:44:48 -0800

"(I guess you could believe that one's policies and one's beliefs are totally separate, but I have a hard time buying that.)" In some sense, yes. Like I said upthread, it doesn't matter why McCain votes against the interests of women, just that he does. They're not totally separate, but I care much more about the policies than the beliefs that inform them. Given the choice between "says sexist crap+votes for women's rights" and "says sexist crap+votes against women's rights," I'd think the choice would still be clear, that the interest of a woman would be best served by someone who says sexist crap but votes in their interest. The ideal would be someone who doesn't say sexist crap and also votes in women's interests, but given the choice between two less-than-ideal candidates, an adult that votes against her interests does deserve to have a government that works against her interests.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:46:14 -0800

You can see an inversion of that when you think about the rural poor—Republicans claim to work in their interest and say the right things, but vote against programs that would help them. Rural poor who vote for Republicans get what they deserve, broadly stated. The folks that get screwed are the ones who voted against those folks and lost.

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:46:51 -0800

Go sit in the Waffle House this weekend, order a cup of coffee, and just listen. Because those are the people who will give us our next administration. You heard it here first, folks. The programmers at Premier(Diebold) love Waffle House.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:47:52 -0800

But I also have very little but contempt for undecided voters, so I recognize that Dean won't be putting me on the phone banks anytime soon.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:49:37 -0800

Republican bloggers are already gushing about how she has ‘more executive experience’ than Obama does! Wouldn't that mean she has more "executive experience" than McCain as well? Seems like a bad point to focus on.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:49:55 -0800

Artw nailed it. This announcement is, above all, a signal that McCain's campaign is going to make abortion the signature wedge issue from here on out. Sarah Palin's speech at the convention is going to have the pro-life church-going moms in tears. "Sarah Palin thinks that babies are a precious gift from God, while Barack Obama wants to abort them alive and toss them in soiled utility baskets." I guarantee the e-mails are being frantically forwarded as we speak.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:52:26 -0800

For the record, Fayetteville is filled with Democrats. I don't doubt it. Democrats that keep voting for Republicans for President, like you find all over the south. I mean, look. Cumberland County went just slightly for Bush in 04... but Cumberland County is also about 40% black. If you really want I can try to dig up GIS data for election precincts in Cumberland County and cross-reference them with Census demographics and then with votes by precinct, but come on. White people in Cumberland County were almost certainly voting for Bush by three to one or more.

By: Muddler

Muddler — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:53:50 -0800

FIRST! oh, wait...damn.

By: DaShiv

DaShiv — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:54:47 -0800

>> You know, I think there's also a very good case to be made that this may motivate Hillary Clinton to work even harder to elect Barack Obama. > What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. I think you're looking at it bass ackwards: suddenly, the ante's been raised for Sen. Clinton. It's an opportunity, rather than an onerous burden -- especially if she still has her sights set on 2012/2016, governorship, whatever. The media, freshly consumed with the "what will Hillary's supporters do?" hype all over again, will be hanging on Sen. Clinton's every word on the stump now with Palin on the scene. Sen. Clinton is now, in every way, the Anti-Palin:

fought a long, bruising campaign whereas Palin was a last-minute secret pick;
earned every vote of her support from the primaries, whereas Palin was handed her spot on the ticket;
is the older, experienced politician who ran on her merits working her way up from lawyer, decades as a political wife, a U.S. state emissary as First Lady, two terms as U.S. Senator of a huge and enormously important state, and now has undisputed clout within her party, unmatched name recognition across the entire voting public, and significant independent appeal, whereas Palin's career is one of beauty pageant contestant, fisherman, sports reporter, four years on small-town city council, four years as small-town mayor, then less than two years apiece on the state Oil commission and Governor's office in a state with less population than most major U.S. cities;
well-known for her commanding grasp of policy and delivered a major human rights speech in China whereas Palin has neither national nor international exposure;
and ultimately, as someone who few would question in a national executive role at this point whereas few in either party have anywhere near the same confidence in a potential President Palin;

and so on. Even without getting into the sexist notion of the younger woman being handed her position due to her attractiveness (and I scoff at any commentator who suggests with a straight face that Palin's resume and qualifications were more instrumental to her selection than the demographic appeal stemming largely from her age, gender, and photogenic appearance): Palin provides an absolute gold mine of contrasts for Clinton and her supporters, the proverbial silver lining in this whole campaign season. Regardless of which future position Sen. Clinton is angling for at this point (even if she hasn't decided), her speeches and attacks against the McCain/Palin ticket will suddenly matter in a whole new way, she can make those hits nobody else can without being labeled a bully or a sexist, and best of all she no longer has to play defense at all (which has always been the worst Clinton liability) -- it's all freebie opportunities to grow her political stature and increase her exposure in the media spotlight without any of the fratricidal concerns that she kept bumping into during the primaries. I can't imagine a better opportunity for her at this point to really flex her political muscles. Just like that, the Obama/Biden campaign has suddenly become relevant again for Sen. Clinton. The press is going to be waiting to hear everything she has to say, and she's savvy enough to know it. I fully expect her to be working extra hard to elect Obama now -- because win or lose, she's going to reap those rewards. Other than Obama and Biden themselves, at this point no other Democrat stands to gain so much from this election. Palin recycled Sen. Clinton's "18 million cracks" phrase in her speech today -- there's no way Sen. Clinton's going to let Palin try to co-opt her legacy from the primaries so easily like that. No way, no how, and Sen. Clinton's supporters know how this saying ends.

By: wendell

wendell — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:54:50 -0800

I for one fully support the killing of unborn life. For the same reason I support the killing of undead zombies and vampires. Because the whole concept is an oxymoron based on fantasy and I am generally Reality-Based.

By: fleetmouse

fleetmouse — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:56:49 -0800

Soiled utility baskets. The very worst kind.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:59:23 -0800

God, I hope that Clinton comes out swinging like that. I think, freed of some of the dumber elements from her campaign staff and the necessities of infrastructure, she could be an awesome hammer of rhetorical justice.

By: konolia

konolia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:02:37 -0800

ROU_Xenophobe, don't bother. My husband probably knows the stats by heart. But also remember these folks here vote for the person, not the party, and I also know Obama had a big turnout when he was here. Also remember that McCain is considered as fairly liberal by folks here, and that Obama is, well, Obama. The guy is incredibly charismatic. If it weren't for the topic of abortion I'd be tempted to drink the kool-aid.

By: iminurmefi

iminurmefi — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:03:45 -0800

The ideal would be someone who doesn't say sexist crap and also votes in women's interests, but given the choice between two less-than-ideal candidates, an adult that votes against her interests does deserve to have a government that works against her interests. There's a part of me that just really chokes on the "deserving it" rhetoric, but that's probably a holdover from my hate of how it's used against women in other situations. Setting aside my knee-jerk reaction to that particular phrasing, I don't disagree with you at all that it's in women's best interest to vote Obama/Biden. I don't think anyone who really calls themselves pro-womens-rights would disagree with that point. (Although I have to point out that I think in some ways it's easier to be a guy--no offense klang--and say, "Well of course you should vote Dem, no matter what offensive thing they say," because I don't think it really hits you in the gut the same way it does for some women. It's not the same sort of personal insult.) I'm trying to draw a distinction, I guess, between what is rationally in people's best interest and how they are likely to act in that situation, and how the Democratic ticket should take that into account when deciding on their strategy for attacking McCain/Palin. I think a lot of Obama supporters are really misguided with the belief that because McCain is worse than Obama on women's rights, Palin doesn't represent some threat electorally. He doesn't have to convince women to vote for him, just to stay home--it's like the Nader argument of, well, both parties are so bad it's pointless to vote for either. In a close state, low turnout among women, who are much more likely to support Democrats, could be a deciding factor in tipping the state red. There are things that Obama and Biden can do to counteract this--number 1 being aware of it and not falling into the trap of (inadvertently) insulting women while trying to tear down Palin, and number 2 speaking out against anything like that when it comes up in the media or through their surrogates/supporters.

By: MikeMc

MikeMc — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:03:58 -0800

I can just see Wolf Blitzer seriously contemplating whether that would win him the 4chan vote Needs more Desu.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:04:42 -0800

they will have a vote, someone will win, yet again i will realise that mefites are all rabid democrats and not a representative cross setion of us society - so i wont get my hopes up.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:04:53 -0800

I just think it's really bizarre that people think it's a crazy big deal that a person who doesn't believe in getting an abortion didn't get an abortion. Of course she didn't get an abortion, she was NEVER going to get an abortion Depends on how she found out. I've known women who would tell you that there's no reason to get specifically screened for Downs unless you're at least thinking of abortion.

By: QIbHom

QIbHom — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:05:40 -0800

GuyZero, Kim Campbell had 15 kinds of class and way more relevant experience than this Palin person. Man, US politics has gotten so skewed to the right that I'm wistfully looking at failed Conservative Canadian pols....

By: Neiltupper

Neiltupper — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:08:19 -0800

What a monumentally disastrous mistake by McCain. All of his gaffes over the past few months suggest to me a deteriorating mental acuity on his part. This choice is more evidence of impaired judgement. I'm really looking forward to the debates where networks such as CBS will not be able to excise his errors, or to hide Palin's painful inexperience.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:10:28 -0800

You missed the news, or didn't pay attention. "Experience" just became utterly irrelevant, and a mcCain victory just became the most likely outcome.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:10:39 -0800

Soiled utility baskets. The very worst kind. I wish I was exaggerating. (To be perfectly clear, the source of these claims is a whack job, and the state's investigation turned up no evidence that what she alleges actually happened, and even if it did, it would have already been illegal under state law, making the bill Obama voted against completely irrelevant.)

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:14:37 -0800

Oh, I know, konolia. But... it's not like running into conservative people, who would hold their nose and vote for McCain or just not vote, is hard to do in the rural south wedged between Pope and Bragg. That's all. I'm sure that Palin will get some conservative evangelicals to the polls who weren't going to show up otherwise. OTOH, I can't help but wonder what her being Catholic, and especially obviously Catholic with her parade of children, will have on the more fundamentalist voters. A papist a heartbeat away? When she wants prayer in school... is it to Christ or to Mary? Though by this point I'd bet the fraction who thinks Catholics aren't really Christian is pretty small.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:15:33 -0800

and I scoff at any commentator who suggests with a straight face that Palin's resume and qualifications were more instrumental to her selection than the demographic appeal stemming largely from her age, gender, and photogenic appearance She's pro-life, which fills in a big hole for McCain supporters. She is not a Washington insider. She's the most popular governor in the United States, with an approval rating in the 90 percent range. She has a reputation as a reformer -- she vetoed 13% of the state's proposed budget for capital projects and showed herself as someone capable of making tough decisions. She resigned from the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission after complaining about ethical violations from another commissioner, and was villified for a while and then became a hero for it. (Again, another tough decision.) Not a single one of these qualities or accomplishments are dependant on her age, gender, or photogenic appearance, but perhaps they are all things that you think it is appropriate to scoff at. But go ahead and continue to believe that McCain picked her because she is a pretty, pretty princess. Because Democrats have never underestimated Republicans before -- or the willingness of middle america to elect the folks who are not necessarily the smartest or went to the best schools, but seem to them like the most decent people. Scoff away. You're still not getting it.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:17:09 -0800

>> You know, I think there's also a very good case to be made that this may motivate Hillary Clinton to work even harder to elect Barack Obama. > What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. And what the fuck makes you think that saying someone "may (be) motivate(d)" is the same as saying that she "MUST WORK HARDER"? Hillary can choose to do whatever she wants. However, I very much doubt she'll choose to sit this one out, for all the reasons DaShiv pointed out above.

By: small_ruminant

small_ruminant — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:21:13 -0800

All of his gaffes over the past few months suggest to me a deteriorating mental acuity on his part. Do the candidates get to dictate these things? I assumed the party basically told them what to do, (but that the candidate probably got veto power if it was something they couldn't tolerate).

By: Slothrup

Slothrup — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:22:09 -0800

BEST THREAD EVAH!

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:22:57 -0800

Kim Campbell had 15 kinds of class and way more relevant experience than this Palin person. Sure. Absolutely. But her career was destroyed by crashing onto the rocks during the backlash from Mulroney. He's the worst case for Palin: McCain wins. McCain does a bunch of stuff all goes sour (like Mulroney at the end). Then he has a heart attack or something (election time finally came around for the Conservatives, now Campbell is at the helm). And who pays the price for the public's dislike of McCain (Mulroney)? That's right: the woman. Seriously, for a (relatively) young politician, getting elected as VP could be the best, last move of Palin's political career. Campbell won the battle (becoming the first woman PM) but lost the war (was she the shortest-serving PM ever?). Palin could en up the exact same way. if I were her I would have stayed in Alaska and looked forward to a long series of oil company "loans" and "gifts" like ol' Ted.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:27:06 -0800

"I'm trying to draw a distinction, I guess, between what is rationally in people's best interest and how they are likely to act in that situation, and how the Democratic ticket should take that into account when deciding on their strategy for attacking McCain/Palin. " I think that's a fair distinction, and I will agree that it's necessary to win irrational voters in order to win the presidency. I might even go so far as to say that morons are the biggest single demographic in America, and that the moron vote is often what decides the outcome of the presidential race.

By: Rumple

Rumple — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:32:18 -0800

Huh. Wikipedia says she cancelled the "bridge to nowhere" after the federal funds were withdrawn and she declined to cough up the several hundred million dollar difference out of state funds. I keep hearing how she cancelled it, but that titbit sure casts it in a different light.

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:33 -0800

The repugnant VPILF site has posts dating back to last week, which is interesting (is it a new domain with back dated posts?). It looks like Dan Kaiser registered the domain on August 4 2008. Back in 1992 he ran as a Dem in the Washington state senate primary, district 28. So he's probably not a Republican insider. All the HTML and photos from the earlier posts have a modification date of August 29 2008, as do the reader comments. I think the dates on the posts are the publication dates of the linked news articles. The Aug 4 domain registration date is pretty curious though.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:35:52 -0800

Because Democrats have never underestimated Republicans before -- or the willingness of middle america to elect the folks who are not necessarily the smartest or went to the best schools, but seem to them like the most decent people. Scoff away. You're still not getting it. McCain is the son and grandson of two four-star admirals. Obama was abandoned by his father and raised by a mother who had to use food stamps to get by. Bush was the son of a President of the United States and the grandson of a U.S. Senator and went to Yale and Harvard Business School. Bill Clinton was similarly abandoned by his father. It really is time to drop the whole 'Democrats are elitists' trope and acknowledge that the facts show otherwise. This isn't 1988 or even 2004. This is 2008 and so much has changed and the GOP brand is so discredited that it is highly unlikely that "middle America" will save McCain from his rightful fate as a losing presidential candidate.

By: Zed_Lopez

Zed_Lopez — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:36:18 -0800

I never heard Obama say he was considering Clinton for vice president Well, in May, Obama said she would be on anyone's short list of vice presidential candidates. But, indeed, that seems likely to have been more about flouting his lead than about his short list, given her absence when names were actually floated. For what it's worth, I'm a male Democrat, and think Clinton faced a lot of disgusting sexism (and wish, particularly, that Chris Matthews were out of a job.)

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:37:58 -0800

Because the whole concept is an oxymoron based on fantasy and I am generally Reality-Based. Oh, so now abortion doesn't kill a life? I wonder why people have abortions in the first place then? Oh, that's right, it's because if they didn't have the abortion, a human life would pop-out of them a few months later. A woman's right to her own body is a very compelling argument in the abortion debate. And using that argument, I understand why people have a different position on this issue than me. But to try and claim that abortion doesn't end a developing baby's life runs counter to the ENTIRE reason people have abortions in the first place.

By: QIbHom

QIbHom — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:39:37 -0800

Campbell has that cushy think tank job in Spain still, right? I take your point, but she didn't exactly land hard. While I'm fantasizing about Canadian female pols in US politics, maybe we could take Carolyn Parrish off your hands?

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:42:22 -0800

Oh, so now abortion doesn't kill a life? I wonder why people have abortions in the first place then? Oh, that's right, it's because if they didn't have the abortion, a human life would pop-out of them a few months later. And if they had a miscarriage, it wouldn't. Don't try to reduce the complexity of human reproduction down to a simmple binary of "is it life/isn't it?" It's awesomely complex and nobody knows for certain the moment when a mass of cells becomes something other than a mass of cells, which is why, when it comes time to make that decision, we leave it in the hands of the person we know to be affected by it, the women who has the mass of cells growing inside her.

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:44:57 -0800

Women have abortions when they have 'stupid sex' with men who won't use condoms.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:46:35 -0800

Okay, it's just turned into crazy talk down here.

By: dawson

dawson — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:48:10 -0800

OTOH, I can't help but wonder what her being Catholic My understanding, for what it's worth, is that she is of the Pentecostal Assemblies of God persuasion.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:48:31 -0800

McCain is the son and grandson of two four-star admirals. Obama was abandoned by his father and raised by a mother who had to use food stamps to get by. Bush was the son of a President of the United States and the grandson of a U.S. Senator and went to Yale and Harvard Business School. Bill Clinton was similarly abandoned by his father. It really is time to drop the whole 'Democrats are elitists' trope and acknowledge that the facts show otherwise. Were we watching the same campaign between Bush and Gore? Bush the Younger was the guy that everybody wanted to have a beer with, whereas Gore was the guy that talked like a robot in his speeches and folks thought was too much of a policy wonk, and not relatable to the average Joe. Likewise, Clinton was the guy who could talk to anybody, who had a way of making you feel like you were the only person in the room when he talked to you, whereas Bush the Elder was the guy who was so out of touch with middle america that he didn't know what a scanner in a grocery store was. Obama's mom may have used food stamps, but as Obama himself said last night, he was able to go to the finest schools in the nation despite that. Surely you have heard the talk from naysayers that he has a messiah complex and is an elitist and is a "celebrity" candidate. McCain went to a military school (where he did badly) and went to war and spent half a decade in a prison camp and gets angry at people when he thinks they are rude to him. So, in short, no, I don't think it's time to drop the trope that some people pick their presidential choice on the basis of who'd they'd rather have a beer with.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:50:18 -0800

I'd rather have a beer with Obama.

By: a robot made out of meat

a robot made out of meat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:50:28 -0800

What the fuck is Hillary Clinton supposed to do at this point, exactly? I'm tired of the HILLARY MUST WORK HARDER TO ELECT OBAMA idiocy, online and off. Stump continuously in Ohio. Really, she has everything to gain by going around just like she was on the ticket about how important Pres. Obama will be to accomplishing her goals for America. She and Obama will vote together 90% of the time. If she delivers from the Senate a healthcare bill with mandates, Obama will probably have to sign it. If she delivers that same bill to McCain he will laugh and laugh and veto. Maybe mention how she doesn't really want VP, but a cabinet position might be nice.

By: mazola

mazola — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:51:06 -0800

While I'm fantasizing about Canadian female pols in US politics, maybe we could take Carolyn Parrish off your hands? Please.

By: troybob

troybob — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:51:23 -0800

I'm curious as to where on the list Palin appeared as a potential presidential candidate. If she wasn't worth mention before, why would she be so now? And I'm hoping someone will put the question to McCain about who his VP candidate would be if Obama were not black. The charge of cynical tokenism applies here as much as it did back when Rice's name was being thrown about as a possibility, back when Clinton had a chance.

By: iamabot

iamabot — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:53:19 -0800

Women have abortions when they have 'stupid sex' with men who won't use condoms. With so much trolling potential in a thread like this, that's the best you could do? Amateur.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:55:56 -0800

If it weren't for the topic of abortion I'd be tempted to drink the kool-aid. So, knowing that the country could not possibly go back to outlawing abortion, you still choose to go with the less qualified and attractive candidate, because they mouth the right words on abortion? Let me know how that foot feels after the bullet passes through it.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:56:03 -0800

It's awesomely complex and nobody knows for certain the moment when a mass of cells becomes something other than a mass of cells We do know for certain, however, that baring a natural miscarriage, if you don't kill those living cells, a living human baby will be born. So any type of argument that claims a human life is not ended by abortion flies in the face of the very reason people have them in the first place.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:58:27 -0800

Please... don't bare a natural miscarriage. And this is hardly fertile ground for the same old abortion debate everyone has had a thousand times.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:58:36 -0800

Clinton's statement on Palin:

"We should all be proud of Governor Sarah Palin’s historic nomination, and I congratulate her and Senator McCain. While their policies would take America in the wrong direction, Governor Palin will add an important new voice to the debate."

Not exactly what DaShiv was predicting, I think.

By: glycolized

glycolized — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:59:02 -0800

re: beauty queen Because it's very clearly that it's being used in this thread, if not outright, but as a subtext, to insinuate that somehow she's not smart enough to be Veep. I am halfway through 400+ posts, and I want to say I'm not getting that impression at all. Some people just want to see that subtext.

By: Surfurrus

Surfurrus — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:00:41 -0800

With so much trolling potential in a thread like this, that's the best you could do? Amateur. Yes, sad. That comment (the condom one) was for jsonic. MEN who rage on about abortion piss me off. I got carried away ... I will go now ... ... lighting candles for shriveling penises.