Comments on: Delicate Things

Delicate Things

beelzbubba — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:05:19 -0800

Who you are is what you listen to: Prof. Adrian North of Edinburgh's Heriot-Watt University recently published results of what the Beeb calls "the largest study of its kind" linking music listening habits to personality characteristics. His breakthrough conclusions? Heavy metal listeners, contrary to public perception, are not a "suicidally depressed" or a "danger to themselves and society in general. But they are quite delicate things."

Ok, the personality descriptions read like a newspaper daily horoscope personality profile, but while I'm a jazz fan (outgoing, creative, high self-esteem), you Indie fans are "Low self-esteem, creative, not hard working, not gentle" and in other news, "drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are the most likely to be caught speeding." And from the MeFi archives, Wanna come up to my place & see my record collection? Apparently, Professor North thinks this will help the Music Industry figure out how to market to us based on our personalities to stem declining CD sales. Good luck with that.

By: Hildegarde

Hildegarde — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:11:01 -0800

I keep getting a 404.

By: cimbrog

cimbrog — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:17:55 -0800

I keep getting a 404. That's because you listen to John Cage.

By: Hildegarde

Hildegarde — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:18:14 -0800

*gasp* HOW DID YOU KNOW

By: DU

DU — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:23:25 -0800

"drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are the most likely to be caught speeding." Completely unrelated to racial profiling, I'm sure.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:24:39 -0800

I suspect drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are 90% white.

By: marginaliana

marginaliana — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:25:04 -0800

Here's the press release which contains some of the conclusions in chart form. I'd like to see hard data, though - this seems awfully nebulous (I suppose my longstanding haaaaaate and distrust for personality tests is a factor). Some of the researcher's other work also looks interesting, though. "...liking for 'problem' music was not associated with a greater tendency for participants to identify closely with licentious behaviours carried out by pop musicians."

By: cowbellemoo

cowbellemoo — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:27:17 -0800

I'm outraged and offended that my glorious niche musical subgenres weren't included in their list. This probably means that I'm a snob but crave the attention and acceptance of the cool kids. I hate your music but for pete's sake hold me close!

By: sour cream

sour cream — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:27:37 -0800

So what did Hitler listen to?

By: Inspector.Gadget

Inspector.Gadget — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:29:50 -0800

Drivers who listen to smooth jazz in their cars are the most likely to be caught being douchebags.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:30:07 -0800

What am I if I listen to pretty much anything that isn't crap? I'm currently looking at the following album covers (the past week's listening pile): Them, Zappa and the Mothers, African Head Charge, Neutral Milk Hotel, Temptations, T-Rex, Dionne Warwick, Primal Scream, Devo, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Einsturzende Neubauten, Electric Light Orchestra, Black Sabbath, Flying Saucer Attack, Tones On Tail, Beastie Boys ...

By: Hildegarde

Hildegarde — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:30:11 -0800

I'm seeing it now! Sorry, must have been the tubes around my house.

By: beelzbubba

beelzbubba — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:31:33 -0800

So what did Hitler listen to? Well, if we reverse engineer it, obviously he was an Indie kid.

By: clockworkjoe

clockworkjoe — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:33:15 -0800

Well it seems everyone but country music, rap and pop music fans is creative.

By: ZaneJ.

ZaneJ. — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:33:43 -0800

Well thank god that list at the end wasn't totally Euro-centric and included indigenous music styles from all over the world from a myriad of cultures. Wait...

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:36:32 -0800

> What am I if I listen to pretty much anything that isn't crap? Then all of MetaFilter will bow at your feet in tribute to your iconoclastic cool.

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:43:39 -0800

My preferences, let me show you them.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:46:52 -0800

Music 'can enhance wine taste' - same researcher, same news site, May 2008 In fact, he's quite busy in this area.

By: bolda

bolda — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:48:05 -0800

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:48:06 -0800

> Music 'can enhance wine taste' Interesting. It works the other way around, too.

By: beelzbubba

beelzbubba — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:49:31 -0800

All I know is that Rob Halford concurs with the findings.

By: atrazine

atrazine — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:52:13 -0800

What am I if I listen to pretty much anything that isn't crap? I'm currently looking at the following album covers (the past week's listening pile): A tedious knob who'll take any opportunity to showcase his oh-so-sophisticated tastes?

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:52:16 -0800

What am I if I listen to pretty much anything that isn't crap? I'm currently looking at the following album covers (the past week's listening pile): The magic 8 ball has analysed the records that you list, and predicts that you should be almost ready to draw your old age pension.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:00:39 -0800

Indie listeners "not gentle"? What. So much of the genre now seems based around an effort to translate soft woolly blankets into sound format. Sufjan? Belle and Sebastian? Iron and Wine? Does that make this The Boy Least Likely To song a plead for mercy?

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:09:27 -0800

not gentle I had members of the Ys Street Band stomp me and take my wallet once. Admittedly, my guard was down. Never again.

By: louche mustachio

louche mustachio — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:23:24 -0800

and in other news, "drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are the most likely to be caught speeding." What percentage of drivers listening to hip hop were caught ridin' dirty?

By: Dr-Baa

Dr-Baa — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:23:27 -0800

Joanna Newsom will fuck your shit up, to be sure.

By: DiscourseMarker

DiscourseMarker — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:34:51 -0800

Sorry, but I call no way. I took the survey to see if there was more detail (there's a link in the press release). Nope. How are these variables operationalized? The survey asks you to rank genres, but with absolutely no guidelines as to what they mean by these labels. What the hell is chart pop anyway? What's on the charts now? Or 10, 15, 20 years ago? Or what about pop that never made it on the charts? What is the difference between hard rock and classic rock? And what the hell is gothic metal (as opposed to heavy metal)? Plus, the scale used goes from 0 (strongly dislike) to 7 (strongly like). What if I have no opinions about a style? I don't dislike reggae, but I don't like it, I have no feelings at all about reggae. Do I select 0, or 5 (as neutral ), or does 5 indicate that I like it somewhat? I don't see how these data can possibly be valid given the lack of definitions for the categories they're asking people to rank.

By: DiscourseMarker

DiscourseMarker — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:35:39 -0800

(Sorry, that should be scale of 1-10 for rankings. Need to preview more).

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:41:07 -0800

Based on my own music habits, I apparently manage to be simultaneously at ease and not, to be simultaneously outgoing and reclusive, and manage to have both high and low self esteem. Where's the music preference if you're feeling hungry? Or subtly pensive? Or obsequious, purple and clairvoyant?

By: aftermarketradio

aftermarketradio — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:42:27 -0800

Rap: High self-esteem, outgoing Heavy Metal: Low self-esteem, not outgoing So, I have average self esteem, and I like to get stuck in doorways.

By: Bromius

Bromius — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:51:24 -0800

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously while listening to country.

By: FatherDagon

FatherDagon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:54:35 -0800

And what the hell is gothic metal (as opposed to heavy metal)? Gothic Metal generally takes many of the tones of the 70's - 90's Heavy Metal and Hard Rock scene, but with a downturned tempo and tonal structure. Tiamat, Paradise Lost and Type O Neg are some more well-known examples of such, altho some may argue that they fall more towards the Doom Metal side of things. Heavy Metal as a genre developed earlier in the 70's from things such as Black Sabbath, Led Zep and the like, became more of a standoff from regular rock with Judas Priest, Iron Maiden etc, and then started to splinter into the many many subgenres we saw throughout the 80's (Hair Metal and then Glam Metal, Speed Metal to Grind and Death Metal, etc). Mostly a historical term at this point, except for some revivalist bands who are hearkening back to a specific 80's sound - 3 Inches of Blood, Dragonforce, and the like - altho those could be said to be more specific than just Heavy Metal (Speed Metal and Power Metal, altho both bands are Fantasy Metal to some extent). I mean, since you asked.

By: rusty

rusty — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:56:05 -0800

"Gentle?" Like "Nice to children and puppies," or "doesn't accidentally break fancy wine glasses," or "can steer through a corner at 140mph slicker than goose shit" or wtf is that even supposed to mean?

By: Seekerofsplendor

Seekerofsplendor — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:03:52 -0800

I don't see how these data can possibly be valid given the lack of definitions for the categories they're asking people to rank. I totally agree with DiscourseMarker and find this study dubious. "High self-esteem" and "outgoing" --or their opposites -- seem to be common to too many music styles, and even those are too ill-defined to make such sloppy conclusions as these. There must be, and are, better criteria than this bubble-gum pyschology. As well as being a musician, I've dealt with hundreds of them (us?) professionally over a few decades, and I find the elements here very generalized and often untrue. It's crap.

By: nicolas léonard sadi carnot

nicolas léonard sadi carnot — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:12:55 -0800

3 Inches of Blood are more like thrash than speed metal. I also think that metal microgenre typing should refer to the type of music played, rather than the band's chosen subject matter - although that's obviously important. Amon Amarth are death metal rather than viking metal, for instance.

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:25:32 -0800

By: DiscourseMarker

DiscourseMarker — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:26:44 -0800

Ooh, ooh, also, I couldn't see how they were coming up with qualities like outgoing, or gentle. There were a series of questions that were so obviously about self esteem (obvious to anyone whose taken a Psyc 101 course or seen an after-school special) that I wonder if people might be tempted to game them, and then a bunch of questions asking about how much I trusted, confided, etc. in my mother, father, romantic partner, and my best friend. If I hardly ever talk to my parents, does that make me "not gentle?" If I talk to my husband a lot, am I shy? Or outgoing? Feh.

By: jrishel

jrishel — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:37:18 -0800

what if you mainly listen to podcasts without music?

By: FatherDagon

FatherDagon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:39:30 -0800

Thrash, I can see, also I always thought they were a bit more tightly structured than Thrash allowed for. As for subject matter not being part of the genre-system, I'd have to disagree there - the entire "Christian [genre]" structure is based on not just the composition, but the content. Where would Earth Crisis be if their political lyric content wasn't part of their descriptor (aside from completely forgotten)?

By: micayetoca

micayetoca — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:46:30 -0800

I suspect drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are 90% white. posted by languagehat "Just so you know, officer...I'm 10% black..." *loud Blues comes in*

By: metricfan

metricfan — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:48:14 -0800

I'm taking social research methods right now... joy. But I would question the quality of these results because of the method. They're asking how the music listener thinks of their personality, from what I can tell. You can't divorce a music genre from your culture, and your culture can dictate/influence your ideas of yourself and what are good personality traits you would be willing to report. I think it says more about the culture of each genre rather than the listeners' personality.

By: DiscourseMarker

DiscourseMarker — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:01:08 -0800

Purtle, I think this study would be a great example to dissect in your methods class. There are so many problems... So I just went back the main survey page (http://www.peopleintomusic.com/)--there are actually two surveys, one for people ages 16-23, the other if you're over 24. The one I took originally was for the ahem, old people. Turns out they're asking a bunch of different questions of younger people--even some of the music categories people are asked to rate are different. But I didn't see anything in the press release or other article about age-related variables. They're asking 16-23 year-olds to rate how much they like grunge, for example, but they didn't ask me that (*sniffs*). I'm not sure a 16 year-old even knows what grunge is (was?).

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:57:23 -0800

So what did Hitler listen to? Wagner.

By: divabat

divabat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:15:23 -0800

How can I be creative and not creative at the same time?

By: Minus215Cee

Minus215Cee — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:16:31 -0800

[/derail by someone who has been pulled over for driving while 'Black'] I suspect drivers who listen to blues music in their cars are 90% white. posted by languagehat "Just so you know, officer...I'm 10% black..." *loud Blues comes in* posted by micayetoca Please, stop that. It's annoying. [/derail ends]

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:26:31 -0800

What am I if I listen to pretty much anything that isn't crap? I'm currently looking at the following album covers (the past week's listening pile): 98 Degrees, Color Me Badd, Slipknot, Céline Dion, Creed, Amy Grant, Kenny G, Yanni, ICP, Hannah Montana, Kenny Chesney, J-Lo, Michael Bolton, 2 Live Crew, Vanilla Ice....

By: Christ, what an asshole

Christ, what an asshole — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:27:13 -0800

How this study got published and how the BBC picked it up depresses me.

By: everichon

everichon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:38:27 -0800

Equally compelling.

By: davejay

davejay — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:45:43 -0800

Um, I listen to all these kinds of music. I must be Superman.

By: Countess Elena

Countess Elena — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:57:40 -0800

I can't tell what I, as a person who listens to They Might Be Giants, Oingo Boingo and chiptunes, am supposed to be in marketing-speak. They had categories for "gentle," "creative", "outgoing", and "high self-esteem," but none for "fedora." Also, Hitler liked Disney movie soundtracks. I mean I'm just saying.

By: synaesthetichaze

synaesthetichaze — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:16:57 -0800

I only listen to the sound of raw meat slapping oil drums, and the wailing of widows.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:21:20 -0800

I can't tell what I, as a person who listens to They Might Be Giants, Oingo Boingo and chiptunes, am supposed to be in marketing-speak. Somebody who wears glasses.

By: spirit72

spirit72 — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:21:51 -0800

Ehhhh. Yeah, what the other guy said about it reading like a horoscope. I dunno. For me at least, the music I listen to has little to do with 'who I am', and a lot to do with 'what's my mood/where am I at mentally today'? Yesterday it was Mozart and Vivaldi, but today it's Slayer and Iron Maiden. Tomorrow it might be Sinatra. I've always liked Metal, but I have never suffered from low self-esteem and have always been hard-working. So yeah, I think they're being awfully simplistic about it.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:28:55 -0800

(I was right, wasn't I, Countess?) I like TMBG, too, but I went to see them a few years ago with two buddies (both of whom are four-eyes). I had a great time, but I'd never seen so many pairs of black-rimmed specs in my life. Of course, I'm sure they have an equally glib characterization of somebody who listens to the Dictators, the Ramones and stuff from Nuggets and Back From The grave cooked up.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:33:55 -0800

Please, stop that. It's annoying. Since you quote my remark as if it came out of nowhere, I feel obliged to point out that it was in response to this, which seems to imply that anyone listening to the blues in a car must be black: Completely unrelated to racial profiling, I'm sure. posted by DU at 3:23 PM on September 5 [1 favorite +] [!] Sorry if it offended you.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:49:34 -0800

Affluent White Man Enjoys, Causes The Blues

By: micayetoca

micayetoca — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:10:24 -0800

Please, stop that. It's annoying. As the other person quoted, I just want to say sorry, didn't mean to offend, it's just that in languagehat's sentence it sounded as if the person was 90% black, not 90% of the universe of drivers. It was a silly joke with no bad intentions, sorry if it came across as something else.

By: Ber

Ber — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:10:37 -0800

I am with Spirit72. My taste can run from Coltrane to Zep to Van der Graaf Generator to Fleet Foxes to Dvorak. I am always looking for something new, something stimulating. A test like this is just simplistic bullshit.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:13:27 -0800

As I read this thread, I'm listening to the Black Keys. Last FM tags them with indie, blues and rock. So that would make me, according to this list:

High self-esteem, creative, outgoing, gentle and at ease; Low self-esteem, creative, not hard working, not gentle; Low self-esteem, creative, not hard-working, not outgoing, gentle, at ease.

Ok, so I'm creative. That's simple. I'm two thirds lazy bum and two thirds at ease, which seems accurate. I have a 2:1 gentleness ratio. I am equal parts intovert/extrovert, which fits every Myers-Briggs test my high school gifted program made me take, and my self-esteem has a 2:1 gear ratio, which roughly corresponds to a torquey 2nd gear. Sounds about right. Chalk up one anecdote in favor of bubblegum voodoo science! I'm listening to Chulahoma, the best damn LP ever as far as I'm concerned.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:40:13 -0800

Apparently heavy metal has as many genres as "electronic" music.

By: cj_

cj_ — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:39:06 -0800

Apparently heavy metal has as many genres as "electronic" music. But less acronyms.

By: decagon

decagon — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:16:24 -0800

Okay guys so lately I've been mostly listening to this one band, The Miskatonic Folk Standards Club and Gentlemen's Octet, that makes songs like this: they take some totally authentic roots folk melody, it doesn't matter what kind of folk music as long as it's got the authenticity thing going, so it could be like an Irish reel or a Yoruba chant or a Tuvan throat-singing thing or what the fuck have you. Then they recenter it into Locrian mode, and then they hit the studio and record it at usually about 1.75 times the original tempo, with the basic guitars-bass-drums combo, except the bass is an upright bass with a pickup attached to it, which gives it a completely different sound and makes you consider the bassline in more of a contrapuntal context. And then usually they bring in a classically-trained string quartet to provide some backing tracks, which they run through a thick-ass flanger. Seriously, they flange the fuck out of it. At least a couple songs per album are flanged so hard that they binaurally beat you into a Komando stupor. Then they press a few thousand copies, just enough to ship a small supply out to every decent record store in the lower 48, and I go out and buy one and listen to it and use it as a hook to tell people on the Internet about how eclectic my musical taste is, because even though the thread in question is a day old one can derive incredible pleasure just by dwelling on one's own enlightened aestheticism. But don't look them up, you'd never understand them. Am I gentle?

By: ersatz

ersatz — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:12:44 -0800

Apparently heavy metal has as many genres as "electronic" music. It's just that three people may have four names for the same genre.

By: tehloki

tehloki — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:32:14 -0800

Hmm. *puts on some soul music, hopes to achieve inner peace like everyone else*

By: Minus215Cee

Minus215Cee — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:32:59 -0800

[languagehat, micayetoca, I wasn't offended. Just a little saddened. If I'd been offended, I would have flagged and moved on. I decided to post in-thread merely to....ah, dammit, this is one of those subjects that I'd need to GMOFB in order to explain, at length, why the Inappropriate Hammer of Funny hit me in the knee instead of the funny bone. Thanks for your apologies.] Okay. Carry on.