Comments on: Gas Free

Gas Free

mygothlaundry — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:52:55 -0800

Gas Shortages Throughout the Southeast More than a week after Hurricane Ike, there's little or no gas around much of the American Southeast.

Here in Asheville, you can check online to see if there's gas at any given station. But then when you get there, you'll wait for an hour or more, often only to find that they've just run out. Which leads to fights. Programs are being canceled, traffic is light and we hear that Atlanta and Nashville are just as bad.

By: mannequito

mannequito — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:57:34 -0800

Is it too early to start planning parties for 2012?

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:04:01 -0800

Pretty much like this deleted post, though at least this one spares us the Hitler.

By: sigma7

sigma7 — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:05:13 -0800

It's pretty bad here in Charlotte. Most of the stations I drive by have regular (if they have anything at all).

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:06:10 -0800

Damn, I missed a chance to pull in a Hitler reference? I've been living this for a week now and Adolf had not even come to mind. Drat.

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:07:55 -0800

How are we going to drive down the ruins of Wall Street with no fuckin' gas? I ask you.

By: aburd

aburd — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:14:30 -0800

It was great to see that CNN declared this the result of a rumor and a panic. Last Wednesday I went to multiple stations here in Nashville that were out of gas. On Friday, there were two stations I saw that had gas. And yesterday there was literally one gas station that I could find selling gas and it only had regular. Sure there was a panic, it was because we ran out of gas.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:16:05 -0800

Sorry mgl, that came out more negative than I intended. Mostly I was just mentioning that an earlier post on this subject got whacked, and while the reason isn't all that clear it's probably for a defect your post doesn't have.

By: wundermint

wundermint — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:18:27 -0800

Thanks for posting this, mygothlaundry. The past couple days have been kind of bizarre in the Aville. I was beginning to think I was living in some twilight zone episode where our city becomes increasing isolated, its residents trapped forever... *cue creepy music*

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:20:30 -0800

I was beginning to think I was living in some twilight zone episode where our city becomes increasing isolated, its residents trapped forever... No, that'd be here in Birmingham. And gas has nothing to do with it.

By: frobozz

frobozz — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:22:52 -0800

Gas in Knoxville has gone down to a normal price from being over 5 dollars a gallon for a little while, although many stations are out of premium grade. The strange thing now is the distribution of prices within a small area - in general, two gas stations across the street from each other won't vary their prices by more than a cent, but now I'm sometimes seeing them with something like a fifteen cent difference in price, I can't figure out why. Of course I haven't investigated very closely, I probably could just ask a gas station attendant.

By: vorfeed

vorfeed — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:24:40 -0800

I hope things get better soon. A friend of mine is still without power in Baytown! This goes to show that it's good sense to be able to care of yourself and your family without resupply for at least a week, and preferably more like a month or even longer. If you live in a high-risk area, you should consider putting together a 72-hour evacuation kit as well. Small things like this can make the difference between comfort and panic in an emergency... and it's nice not to have to run to the store for dinner now and again, too.

By: wendell

wendell — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:25:13 -0800

I am amazed how unaffected my part of the West Coast is. Not that there is any logical reason (which there isn't - our supply chain is totally separate partly because of California Low-Emission Formulations), but any time in the semi-recent past that there has been a crisis or pseudo-crisis anywhere in the country, the prices went up around here, just to make sure I'm paying Among the Highest Gasoline Prices in the U.S.ofA. If anything, the prices have crept down here since Ike hit Texas. Right now ranging from a lowest regular price around $3.70/gal. to a highest premium price just over $4.00/gal. Which is also the lowest spread between the bargain gas the locals use and the high-priced tourist stations on Highway 101. (My tip: never buy Shell gas in Shell Beach) I feel like they're setting us up, which would be considered paranoid except for how the Oil Industry has always treated California (mostly in response to California Low-Emmission Formulations - a mix of legitimate additional costs and their desire to say "F.U.CA"). Anyway, I'd be happy to give youze guyz a ride to the ruins of Wall Street, but the WendellWagon will be loaded up with extra cans of gas just to complete the trip - no room for passenging.

By: GavinR

GavinR — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:26:16 -0800

I live in the Baton Rouge area...we were directly affected by Gustav and are one of the largest refinery locations in the United States. Gas distribution is coming back online but was delayed because of the storm in this area. It is a ripple effect and won't last long. We felt the brunt of it when it first occurred and it was a nightmare but things have quickly gotten a lot better.

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:27:38 -0800

The weirdest thing was today when I turned on the noon news and all they had to say about the fact that half the people I know are stranded around the city (me included; my extended family now has one car with 1/2 a tank of gas in it and I'm the official chauffeur for us all) was that parents at one elementary school are considering car pools. Whoa! Considering! Meanwhile, my daughter, who works for the Autism Society, is reporting that nobody can make it to work; my job is on the brink of closing down; everyone I know is looking for gas and the lines at the very few stations that are even open are stretching for two miles or more, with police escorts. It's not the prices: there's no gas to be had. Yet there's no media coverage, local or otherwise. wundermint has it - it's just getting stranger and stranger.

By: HappyHippo

HappyHippo — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:28:58 -0800

While in Tampa FL today I had to cruise three stations before finding fuel, they had the baggies over the nozzles....I thought it just a weird coincidence but now in hindsight, perhaps a shortage.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:34:52 -0800

See, they tell you to buy local, and this is what happens...

By: Alexandra Kitty

Alexandra Kitty — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:35:45 -0800

The South are going to be introduced to an old Canadian concept -- the Bennett Buggy.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:37:10 -0800

This is very strange. There seems to be no shortage in Brunswick, GA, at least that I can see living about a mile from a line of truckstops. Prices are actually down a bit here. Maybe I should fill up my tank before tomorrow morning, hmm.

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:37:19 -0800

Get used to it!

By: mannequito

mannequito — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:39:03 -0800

Definitely get used to it. Also, buy a bicycle. Also, why'd that other post get deleted?

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:40:36 -0800

In St. Louis (we're southeast of Idaho) there were a number of stations that were out of gas withing 24 hours of Ike making landfall. Haven't these people heard of plausible deniability?

By: nickyskye

nickyskye — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:44:05 -0800

huh. This is strange. What's happening? Anybody got an idea? A week ago I called Conroe, a town north of Houston. They'd just gotten their electricity after 5 days and this went all the way up to Ohio. Nashville continues to see the worst gasoline shortage in the Southeast, the region hardest hit by supply problems after Hurricane Ike. Problems are also reported in metro Atlanta and Tallahassee, Fla., said AAA spokesman Nine major refineries were still off-line Monday in the Texas Gulf Coast. Maybe this will help? Car Pool World. com Share the Ride NC

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:44:12 -0800

It's strange because I've been driving back and forth between NC and the DC area, and suddenly gas -- which is normally far cheaper in NC -- jumped up to be much more pricey than DC's. The only thing I can figure is that it's a difference in supply. My understanding is that most gasoline moves from refineries to local terminals via pipelines. It's not hauled by truck for any great distance; it's too expensive. (Those trucks that you see driving around are only the very last step, taking the gas from the pipeline terminals to the gas stations.) Somewhere between northern VA and NC apparently lies the "continental divide" for refined petroleum, north of which you're getting product coming from refineries in Jersey or Delaware, and south of which you're getting stuff from the Gulf Coast. However, a look at some pipeline maps doesn't really support this; the pipelines look like they run straight through, making it up at least to DC if not all the way up to NJ. Unless there's something that I'm not seeing, it's not apparent to me why DC would have gas while places further south -- that supposedly are on the same refined-products pipelines -- wouldn't.

By: liet

liet — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:44:14 -0800

Here in Austin, there are signs on the freeway warning drivers to "AVOID TRAVELING TO HOUSTON, FUEL SHORTAGES EN ROUTE" (or something along those lines). Kind of post-apocalyptic.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:49:04 -0800

I ride a bike everywhere but had to fill up the work van one day last week. I was stunned to find that the first two stations I went to in central Raleigh were both out of gas. When I heard about the Asheville situation today, I just shook my head and thought, they're all going to push for offshore drilling now. Then I hopped on my bike and rode home.

By: wundermint

wundermint — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:53:21 -0800

Yet there's no media coverage, local or otherwise. True! At my house we don't have TV so I've been on Citizen Times, and the only article I was seeing earlier in the day seemed really fuzzy - where is an official statement from the mayor...or someone? anyone? anyone? ...bueller? And side note: I agree with biking 100% - but some people may not have experienced our narrow, hilly non-bike laned roads. They can be pretty scary and dangerous. Didn't have a car for awhile and there was only a couple roads I felt remotely safe on.

By: louche mustachio

louche mustachio — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:54:45 -0800

Drivers from Austin, thinking to themselves ""AVOID TRAVELING TO HOUSTON, ~~FUEL SHORTAGES EN ROUTE~~ WHAT THE HELL YOU GOTTA GO TO HOUSTON FOR?"

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:58:11 -0800

And in the supermarket people are trading stories like, hey, you can go to South Carolina and get gas! Which is very helpful when you're on empty. Then the people who are still in the Florida Fog (Floridians who moved here because they got a spiritual message from under their table at the vegetarian restaurant telling them that life was better in Asheville and are still determined that everything is Perfect here) say, well, it's because of the mountains. I mean, yes, of course, it is really hard for the mule teams pulling the tankers to get up the hill. We should all think of that.

By: vorfeed

vorfeed — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:58:53 -0800

Unless there's something that I'm not seeing, it's not apparent to me why DC would have gas while places further south -- that supposedly are on the same refined-products pipelines -- wouldn't. Don't forget that supply is only one part of the equation -- demand is the other. JHarris upthread said, "There seems to be no shortage in Brunswick, GA [...] Maybe I should fill up my tank before tomorrow morning, hmm." I don't mean to pick on him, because that's a perfectly reasonable reaction, but multiply him by 1000, and there's your mystery shortage. It could be that people in the towns south of DC heard about shortages nearby, and their reactions caused the shortages to spread.

By: infinitewindow

infinitewindow — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:00:39 -0800

GASLESS CARS KEEP GOING WE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

By: loquacious

loquacious — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:01:17 -0800

Has anyone seen my peak oil? I'm pretty sure I left it around here somewhere.

By: odinsdream

odinsdream — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:04:18 -0800

The only thing I can figure is that it's a difference in supply. My understanding is that most gasoline moves from refineries to local terminals via pipelines. It's not hauled by truck for any great distance; it's too expensive. (Those trucks that you see driving around are only the very last step, taking the gas from the pipeline terminals to the gas stations.) This is correct. One of these is run by Colonial Pipeline (the other one is Marathon), which has a fairly large distribution point right here in Greensboro, NC. Yet for some inexplicable reason, the Sheets gas station literally within sight of this distribution point is out of Premium and Mid-Grade.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:06:42 -0800

CNN's coverage has been perverse. Basically, I think I'm supposed to believe I'm imagining this. I keep waiting for them to sign the hypnotoad as the new evening anchor. I also preferred the first post. This one doesn't have nearly enough Hitler.

By: Haruspex

Haruspex — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:12:32 -0800

Lots of dry pumps around downtown Atlanta last Sunday, when I'd just gotten back from the airport. Fortunately my little beater of a pickup runs on pretty much nothing, but I had to drive fairly far — and rather nervously — in order to find a gas nozzle without a baggy prophylactic.

By: marxchivist

marxchivist — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:13:35 -0800

It's been kind of weird. Friday before last (9/12) we drove to Greensboro in the morning and gas was around $3.60 something. We did our business, then on the way back that afternoon it was $4.00 and up. We were wondering if we had bombed Iran or something. Ike was on the way. Here in Raleigh some places are out, but it's not as hard to find as it was the Saturday before Ike hit Texas, it was exactly like Mad Max on that day. The state attorney general has issued some subpoenas for price-gouging and he's not even running for anything.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:14:31 -0800

While in Tampa FL today I had to cruise three stations before finding fuel Huh. I haven't noticed any shortages in Gainesville (not that I've looked hard), but now I'm glad I didn't go to the Rays game last weekend. well, that, and they lost

By: wundermint

wundermint — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:15:49 -0800

Let's have a we-don't-got-no-gas party. We'll sip cocktails through our siphons.

By: nola

nola — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:19:27 -0800

I keep hearing about the little town I live in running out, but so far I've not seen any closed pumps. Nashville which is an hour away however, is having problems.

By: mullingitover

mullingitover — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:21:07 -0800

I can't wait until all the gas runs out. Girls who ride bicycles are hawt.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:28:11 -0800

How are we going to drive down the ruins of Wall Street with no fuckin' gas? I ask you. It's a short street. Very walkable!

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:03:26 -0800

TOO FAR TO DRIVE SHORTAGES EVERYWHERE OUT OF GAS BURMA SHAVE

By: netbros

netbros — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:19:09 -0800

From the Asheville Citizen-Times The shortages have spread across much of the Southeast as most the 15 Gulf Coast refineries shut down by Hurricanes Gustav and Ike have yet to come back on line, cutting the nation's petroleum supply by 22 percent. Some experts said Asheville's relative remoteness from the Colonial Pipeline, the main artery for East Coast gasoline supplies, and sparse population compared with major metropolitan areas could be adding to the problem. The pipeline reopened 9 days ago, albeit at a greatly reduced carrying rate, and some supplies are reaching the gasoline terminals in Spartanburg and Belton, S.C., that supply the mountains. But some industry officials had as many questions as answers in trying to explain the problems Monday. "I've been communicating with some of the local distributors, and they're having trouble figuring out why gas isn't coming to Spartanburg," said Mack Salley, deputy fire marshal for Buncombe County. "All they know is they're sending trucks to Spartanburg to get gas and they're coming back empty." Karl Koon, vice president of Asheville Oil Co., said this afternoon that his company is looking for product anywhere it may be available. His company, which supplies five local BP stations as well as private companies, has two fuel tanker trucks, but they've been sitting idle for the past two days. "We've actually made trips to Spartanburg and come back empty-handed," Koon said, adding that they are considering sending a truck as far as North Charleston, S.C., where the terminals have more product. "I can tell you we're trying to get product anywhere and everywhere, and price is a secondary consideration to actually being able to get product." He said the terminals in upstate South Carolina are smaller than the big terminals in Charlotte and Greensboro, and that may be contributing to the shortage here in the mountains. Also, before the storms hit, the refineries were switching from a summer blend of fuel to the winter formula, so supplies were already tight. From the Hendersonville Times-News North Carolina AAA has seen a 12 to 15 percent increase in calls from members who ran out of gas since the shortage began last weekend, according to AAA officials. The motor club delivers emergency fuel to its members who run out of gas on the road, said Susan Ledford, Western North regional manager. She attributes the localized gas shortage to a few factors. Those who filled up last Friday or Saturday, both heavy days for fueling, now need a refill. It is also still tourism season as fall arrives and the visitors come to Western North Carolina to see the leaves change. Ledford also said many people are still topping off their tanks when it's not necessary. This caused long lines at the few service stations in Hendersonville that carried gas. Meanwhile, in Hygiene, Colorado Residents of a rural Colorado town say a cow named Apple chased off a bear that had climbed into her favorite apple tree. Jack McDonald of Hygiene, about 30 miles northwest of Denver, said the bear had climbed out of the tree when the cow approached it Sunday afternoon. McDonald says the animals touched noses and hung out together for a bit before Apple chased the bear off. "It was hilarious," McDonald says.

By: porpoise

porpoise — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:20:58 -0800

Definitely not seeing it on the West Coast. Gas is 129.9/L (which comes to $4.71 USD/gallon atm - would feel a but "cheaper" but the CAD has been gaining on the USD lately. hmm, wonder why?), down from a long period of 140-something (there was a 1.52 peak for a little bit). It had been that way since before the summer, maybe this is just a post-summer effect. Then again, I don't own a car and take the bus or just walk.

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:30:48 -0800

Oh hey, I just found something useful: Canadian Dollars per liter in USD per gallon I knew Google did unit conversions, but I didn't realize it did compound unit conversions. Awesome!

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:41:04 -0800

Huh. So far we here in Fayetteville are okay...but I just told my husband to make sure to fill up in the morning-he's at a quarter of a tank.

By: IvoShandor

IvoShandor — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:47:28 -0800

Where's all that Iraqi oil when you need it? No matter, the ban on offshore drilling is to be lifted. That oughta do it. No worries now. Straight from the ocean into your gas tank, I guess. Get ready for never-ending energy independence.

By: thivaia

thivaia — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:55:38 -0800

The past couple days have been kind of bizarre in the Aville. I was beginning to think I was living in some twilight zone episode where our city becomes increasing isolated, its residents trapped forever... *cue creepy music* You have precisely summed up my experience of growing up in Asheville and clearly articulated my best argument against ever moving back . Good luck to you. Last time I checked in, my mother said the Hess Station on Hendersonville Road had gas.

By: well_balanced

well_balanced — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:56:08 -0800

Even before Ike hit, quite a few areas of the US were starting to see gasoline shortages. If you are interested in this kind of stuff I recommend that you take a look at The Oil Drum now and then. Like any public board the comments contain both extremes but I have found it very interesting over the past few months to read articles that attempt to make accessible EIA data, industry reports, etc. on fossil fuel supply, availability, discovery, pricing etc. The Gasbuddy temperature map is always interesting.

By: cillit bang

cillit bang — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:29:27 -0800

Oh hey, I just found something useful: Canadian Dollars per liter in USD per gallon You want to put "US Gallon" in there and save yourself a buck.

By: chuckdarwin

chuckdarwin — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:23:56 -0800

I believe it was Andre 3000 who said 'nothing lasts forever'. The saddest thing is that Americans became complacent enough to allow this situation to occur in the first place.

By: knapah

knapah — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:41:51 -0800

A refinery worker strike caused a similar shortage in Scotland in April. The effects were amplified by people panic buying. If the refineries are down at the minute then it's not much of a surprise that gas supplies are low, once they're back up and running - and people stop panic-buying/stockpiling - there shouldn't be much of a problem. It might also provide a welcome kick in the arse to invest in alternative energy sources. (I didn't know google could do that either **1.12 (British pounds per litre) = 7.84422115 U.S. dollars per US gallon**)

By: bystander

bystander — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:13:24 -0800

There is an article on the Oil Drum site well_balanced linked to that addresses this issue explicitly. Quote: "...because Texas refineries have been fairly slow to get back online, and because of the built-in lag due to the slow travel of refined products through pipelines, the present gasoline shortages are likely to get worse in the next two to three weeks."

By: wundermint

wundermint — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:06:03 -0800

Thanks for the tip, thivaia. Hope your mother doesn't have to wait for hours on end. I grew up in Carrboro/Chapel Hill so I understand perfectly why you'd like it there! :)

By: Slap*Happy

Slap*Happy — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:25:59 -0800

If you think this is fun, wait until OPEC slashes production, trying to prop up the collapsing bubble. Prices will be very slow to recover, so the result will be widespread shortages. Eventually OPEC will go back to a reasonable production level, because while selling a lot of oil for cheap hurts, selling very little oil for cheap topples regimes, and the commodities pricing will have started to return to normal. In the meantime, figure on five, six months worth of gas lines and five-bucks-a-gallon gas if you can find some.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:31:26 -0800

Peapod Grocery Delivery

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:40:59 -0800

The idea that the shortages are the result of rumors is pretty ridiculous, seeing as how cars can only put a little gas in their tanks at a time. People can't really hoard the stuff. The problem, in my view is price controls. Rather then charging the real value of the gas, which would be painful, price controls are put in place, and shortages result. If gas stations could charge the true market value for the gas, then people would buy less and conserve until the shortage went away. Instead, we get shortages.

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:54:42 -0800

It figures that this would happen the first time I drive a car in over six months.

By: misha

misha — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:11:57 -0800

This is strange to me, because I'm down as far Southeast as you can go, and we have no problem getting gas. You would think that, merely from a transportation standpoint, we would be the most expensive as well as have the hardest time getting gas to us.

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:22:13 -0800

"Southeast" as far as the MSM is concerned appears to be just about everything South of the Ohio and east of the Mississippi flood plain. It seems to be centered on Asheville, Nashville, and Atlanta.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:30:04 -0800

Lets see .. Move to NYC a day before Sept. 11? Check. Plan a vacation to New Orleans right before it gets hit by a devastating hurricane? Check. Visit Berlin right before a freak, crippling ice storm? Check. Start to talk about a drive to Asheville and Savannah and then read of gas shortages? Check. I am a danger to myself and others.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:32:20 -0800

The idea that the shortages are the result of rumors is pretty ridiculous, seeing as how cars can only put a little gas in their tanks at a time. People can't really hoard the stuff. You think so? I'd say the average gas tank is half full. If suddenly that jumps to an average of 3/4 full, because people are worried when they fall below half-full, that's a significant increase in demand.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:55:09 -0800

You think so? I'd say the average gas tank is half full. If suddenly that jumps to an average of 3/4 full, because people are worried when they fall below half-full, that's a significant increase in demand. It could create a short spike in demand, but that would taper off once everyone's tank was full.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:08:38 -0800

True, but that's assuming that the system could handle the initial spike. Plus the length of the spike is determined by human factors, since everyone doesn't decide to fill up at once. It would be interesting to model.

By: djeo

djeo — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:15:16 -0800

The Whelk: I am a danger to myself and others. Please consider providing a public service and post a blog entry or at least a twitter whenever you get a hankering to move or travel. Also, let us know what Powerball numbers to avoid.

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:32:12 -0800

delmoi: It could create a short spike in demand, but that would taper off once everyone's tank was full. As with most businesses, gas stations don't keep enough stock to fill up everyone's tank in one day. Most businesses operate on the assumption that demand will be spread out over the course of a normal week. So for example 9/11 caused gas shortages because people who would normally wait a few more days to buy $20 of fuel panicked and bought full tanks and canisters as soon as possible. (And because people are irrational agents, I don't think that simply raising the price will solve the problem.) Now granted, there are supply problems this week. But panic behavior by consumers certainly is making the problem a bit worse than it needs to be.

By: you just lost the game

you just lost the game — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:32:37 -0800

> Here in Austin, there are signs on the freeway warning drivers to "AVOID TRAVELING TO HOUSTON" That's good advice no matter how you slice it.

By: wierdo

wierdo — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:42:08 -0800

Heh. I hate to rub it in, but I gotta quit reading MeFi and go fill up an SUV and drive a couple hundred miles now for no real purpose. Oh well, at least gas has been relatively cheap here for the last couple of days.

By: matty

matty — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:35:43 -0800

Spoke to my sister in Atlanta today... she said, "Oh no, we're not out. You have to drive around some but we've been ok so far. We've made sure not to let our tanks get below 1/2." Gee sis, I wonder why all those stations are out of gas?

By: John Smallberries

John Smallberries — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:06:54 -0800

How odd this seems. I'm in Houston and most of the stations in my neighborhood have gas. I am on the west side of town, which got a lot less nastiness than the eastern parts, but still it seems strange that WE have gas when there are still trees and fences down and traffic lights missing.

By: John Smallberries

John Smallberries — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:09:19 -0800

err.... ...that WE have gas when there are still trees and fences down and traffic lights missing, when other unhit parts of the country do not. I guess it's because we live in the oilpatch?

By: Robert Angelo

Robert Angelo — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:17:43 -0800

We in the Houston area have gas because 1/4 of us still have no power and need the gas to run generators.

By: sfenders

sfenders — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:39:00 -0800

Gee sis, I wonder why all those stations are out of gas? Because some people are foolish enough to habitually run on a mostly-empty gas tank, until there's a shortage? I keep mine mostly full all the time, probably because once upon a time I spent lots of time driving on roads where there aren't many places to fill up, but now when I feel the irrational exuberance that leads to such half-bullshit, I call it doing my patriotic duty, keeping full my little part of the rolling strategic reserve of gasoline. Once shortages get common enough that everyone does it, no more problems from that kind of panic buying.

By: subbes

subbes — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:17:19 -0800

Tallahassee went through its gas shortage two weeks ago. It lasted about a week. The first Friday of the shortage (also State workers paydays) was terrible -- Floridians bought, apparently, 100 million gallons of gas (the normal number is 26 million gallons). Now it's back to 'normal.' Highlights: "The supply of gasoline to Tallahassee is getting back to normal, said Jim Smith, president of the Florida Petroleum Marketers & Convenience Store Association. But customers are buying three or four times more than normal, sucking stations dry faster than they're resupplied. "This is the worst retail marketplace in the entire state right now," he said. "Residents should pat themselves on the back for out-panicking everybody else."" WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! Blame got laid on the shoulders of a State of Florida (Dept of Management Services) employee who sent out an e-mail from her work account to her friends warning everyone that gasoline could rise in price by over a dollar during the day. Predictably, the e-mail was forwarded on to everyone and rumor became fact as lines at gas pumps prompted more people to panic and wait in line which made more people panic and wait in line and then buy gas cans to hoard some "just in case" ad nauseum. Just like the Carson-created toilet roll shortage, but without the golf swing.

By: 100watts

100watts — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:19:34 -0800

In Athens,Georgia, we're seeing a lot of stations out of one grade or another. What I'm nervous about is that this weekend is a home football game. Meaning a lot of folks travelling in from Atlanta for the game, and if they're driving less-than-efficient vehicles (read: SUVs, minivans and Big Ass Trucks) they'll need to refill while they're here. And don't forget the fans coming from Alabama. And really pay attention to the ones with giant motor homes. And don't forget all the generators that get brought to tailgating activities. The "population" of Athens roughly doubles on a game day and we're seeing mild shortage as is. This could be bad. I'd like to just get the hell out of town, but that would mean, wait for it, filling up my tank in order to drive somewhere.

By: knapah

knapah — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:40:45 -0800

Does Athens have a railway station? If so, why not take a train somewhere? (This may be a non-starter, but it's what I would do if I couldn't use my car and needed to get somewhere - or take a bus)

By: smackfu

smackfu — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:06:40 -0800

Because some people are foolish enough to habitually run on a mostly-empty gas tank, until there's a shortage? I keep mine mostly full all the time, Heh. I think most people just fill up when the light goes on. It's pretty weird to keep it mostly full all the time.

By: oaf

oaf — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:22:38 -0800

The nearest Amtrak station to Athens is in Gainesville, 34 miles away.

By: vorfeed

vorfeed — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:40:16 -0800

The idea that the shortages are the result of rumors is pretty ridiculous, seeing as how cars can only put a little gas in their tanks at a time. People can't really hoard the stuff. Um, no, that's "pretty ridiculous". It's not about individual hoarding, it's about a sudden increase in collective demand. Like any business, gas stations only have enough room for a certain amount of gas, and they know how long it takes to sell it, so they order exactly that much gas during that period. Yes, cars can "only put a little gas in their tanks at a time", but if everyone fills up at once, especially for days on end, the stations will run out, and they'll do it surprisingly quickly, because that's simply not the demand pattern they're built to support. If the same thing is going on all over the region, then the regional distributor will also run out, because he isn't in the business of buying and storing tons more gas than he's likely to sell, either. As for the whole "it could create a short spike in demand, but that would taper off once everyone's tank was full" thing, keep in mind that people still have to get to work. If the shortage lasts a week, guess what: many of those people will need to buy gas again. And perceived shortages tend to cause people to buy before they need to, "just in case", which prolongs the period of high demand.

By: sara is disenchanted

sara is disenchanted — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:41:47 -0800

We're fine down here in Wilmington, around 3.70-3.90, with a spike to right over 4.00 during Ike. But friends back home in the Triad have reported much higher gas prices-some in Lexington were brushing up against that 5.00 mark at one time. Didn't believe it until I heard about Charlotte's prices and all that. We've got the port here, though, and that may be why we wouldn't notice a shortage or panic as easily as other folks in the state. Also, people here are lazy; myself included, so there's this "eh, we can do it tomorrow" vibe emanating from us beach bums.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:19:48 -0800

mygothlaundry writes "The weirdest thing was today when I turned on the noon news and all they had to say about the fact that half the people I know are stranded around the city (me included; my extended family now has one car with 1/2 a tank of gas in it and I'm the official chauffeur for us all) was that parents at one elementary school are considering car pools." Aren't elementary schools generally constructed within walking distance of the families they service?

By: Western Infidels

Western Infidels — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:00:16 -0800

Would it make me a terrible free-market Scrooge-curmudgeon to point out that if fuel merchants are running out of fuel at $5/gallon that $5/gallon is clearly far too low a price? I wonder how much panic/hoarding behavior you'd see at $10/gallon.

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:49:25 -0800

Aren't elementary schools generally constructed within walking distance of the families they service? You're joking, right? I wish this was the case, but many elementary schools are huge, and draw students from a wide area. The reasons for doing this are usually economies of scale; several towns or school districts put their money together and build one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school, rather than each town trying to build one of each, and they hopefully have better quality as a result. (I'm unconvinced this actually works all that well, but it's the theory anyway.) I'm not sure why parents are driving their kids to school versus having them take a school bus, though -- unless the school buses are out of diesel too? That would indicate a true problem.

By: subbes

subbes — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:09:38 -0800

Western Infidels: "if fuel merchants are running out of fuel at $5/gallon that $5/gallon is clearly far too low a price? I wonder how much panic/hoarding behavior you'd see at $10/gallon." Based on this town? Just as much, but while they're filling their cars and 5 gallon "emergency" gas cans with $5.49/gallon regular, they use their mobile phone to call the "Price Gouging Report Line."

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:39:26 -0800

Kadin2048 writes "The reasons for doing this are usually economies of scale; several towns or school districts put their money together and build one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school, rather than each town trying to build one of each, and they hopefully have better quality as a result" Interesting. Places I'm familiar with in Canada, IE: BC and Calgary, rarely have elementary schools with more than a 10-12 classes. So one for each grade plus some splits to handle excesses. And that's only 30 odd kids per class. High schools are much larger however highschool kids are expected to be able to walk farther too. It's only rural neighbourhoods where busing is the norm.