Comments on: And then there were ten

And then there were ten

raider — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:06:10 -0800

Planning and working toward ultimate goals that appear unattainable or even unrealistic does not militate against a finding that this was a terrorist group

The Toronto 18 , long since reduced to 11, is now 10 despite the government's well-compensated mole's protestations. And Stephen Harper's head remains intact.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:10:33 -0800

"I also reject the argument that [the alleged ringleader] was a hapless fanatic who posed no risk." Look no further than the past 8 years in America if you want to see the kind of havoc that hapless fanatics can wreak.

By: Dasein

Dasein — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:11:01 -0800

Canada manages to successfully prosecute a terrorist. This actually is news. Also: Mubin Shaikh. Weirdest. InformantInACandianMuslimTerrorCell. Ever.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:12:13 -0800

And regarding removing the Prime Minister's head. That part always endeared me to these guys.

By: raider

raider — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:34:22 -0800

P-R, you seem to be missing the point a little bit.

By: mandal

mandal — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:39:25 -0800

Planning and working toward ultimate goals that appear unattainable or even unrealistic does not militate against a finding that this was a terrorist group See: any Bond villain, ever, for rough working proof.

By: longsleeves

longsleeves — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:49:21 -0800

Note to self - for trip to Niagara Falls, shave beard and do not pack schematics for sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads

By: delmoi

delmoi — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:00:42 -0800

This would never happen in America. You can't get convicted with a trial. (and I'm sure they'd just send him to G'itmo and torture him until he coughed up something realistic, and then hold him indefinitely, since they wouldn't be able to even organize a military commission kangaroo court)

By: spish

spish — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:05:25 -0800

"faces a 10 year sentence". the cynic in me really wants to say "so he'll carry out the attack in 2018?".

By: raider

raider — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:23:49 -0800

Spish, obviously you're not Canadian. 2011

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:36:40 -0800

Check out the original MeFi thread when they were first arrested. Especially eriko's brilliant work discovering the beginer electronics kit they were using as a cell phone trigger (with a tiny little bit of proding by your's truly :P). 'Goals appearing to be unatainable' is a massive understatement! That doesn't mean I question the conviction, I haven't been following the details since the first few days.. In fact, a catch up session is long over due, I think.

By: Sargas

Sargas — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:37:40 -0800

Raider : Probably 2014-2015 but who knows I'm glad we canadians decided to investigate our terror suspects instead of just toturing them.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:42:27 -0800

By: rokusan

rokusan — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:56:18 -0800

I'd like to thank this article for forcing me to learn the term "militate against", which I was sure was some kind of typo.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:56:33 -0800

Also seconding Balisong's "Holy Crap". Wow.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:14:26 -0800

"In terms of the actual terrorism offence, the judge says that the young man did not actually have to be involved in a specific plan ... but that he just had to know that this was their intention generally," Holy Crap. I'm curious at the shock here. Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is?

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:17:28 -0800

Because I hear lots of crazy crap spewing out of my friends mouths, but don't turn them in to the police for it, like a good citizen.

By: phyrewerx

phyrewerx — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:17:29 -0800

I don't know the full details of the law that led to this man's guilty finding, but I seriously question how long this law will stay on the books without some legislative revision (the election is a good thing!) or constitution challenge. Oh, if you yanks need to whine about your country, do it elsewhere, there's plenty of threads here for that. Polluting this thread does no good and it just shows how annoying you folks can be.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:18:29 -0800

I might even say something myself. But, like John Ashcroft said, everyone will have their day in court.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:20:21 -0800

takes Yankee whning mouth elsewhere.

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:27:43 -0800

I'm curious at the shock here. Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is? I know just about dick of canadian law but in the US failure to act to prevent a crime isn't prosecutable unless you have a duty to prevent it. Or it used to be, I'm sure now you'll be swept away to a foreign prison and tortured if you knew about something like this.

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:29:03 -0800

That first part should be italicized, sorry.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:50:38 -0800

At least one member of a group of terror suspects plotted to storm Canada's parliament and behead officials, including the prime minister Still dealing with blowback from the hockey strike, eh?

By: justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow

justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:47:10 -0800

I think the reason some of us are a bit shocked is that this person has been convicted (under modified rules of evidence) for having a (vague?) idea that some of his friends were planning (however speculatively/unrealistically) a terrorist act (although in fact the planning may have been done by a government mole). I used to be pleased that our government had built a solid case against these guys using normal police procedures and tried them in a civilian court -- justice, even for terrorists. Now I'm wondering if I was too credulous. This item below, from the Wikipedia, article on the Toronto 18, made me feel quite a bit better about my country. All charges against 2 more youth were stayed on 31 July 2007 with the conditions imposed under a Peace Bond, the first to be implemented under a terrorism related peace bond, which states that they must not have any communication with their co-accused, they must report to police twice a month, and must seek counseling from their respective Imams. They're treating them like a couple of high school kids, teenagers who started hanging out with gang members and who needed to be scared straight. In the opinion of the judge that's all they are, and I'm glad to see that the judge is making decisions based on the facts rather than in an unthinking frenzy. Yes, let's see more of that please.

By: rocket88

rocket88 — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:47:51 -0800

As for the "Holy Crap" reactions: The judge was referring to the defence's argument that the accused wasn't directly involved by reminding them that, under the law, he wouldn't have to be directly involved to be found guilty. Being peripherally involved with knowledge of the planned crime is enough to convict. This isn't the same as overhearing your neighbours and not ratting them out.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:56:39 -0800

"Mubin Shaikh"? As in "Move and Shake"? And he's an underground informant? Good grief! I didn't sign up to be in this Mike Myers movie.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:33:23 -0800

"Why should it be a shock that a relatively civil society would want to punish someone who was aware of a terror attack, and yet did nothing to alert his neighbors? If this isn't criminal, what is?" I am going to blow up the moon. To this end I will go camping wearing astronaut clothing and a small caliber sidearm and I will order an Atlas V rocket from NASA and 40 tons of red flagged precursor agents (they'll never investigate, trust me). Also, praise Allah. If you do not alert the authorities of this malicious terrorist intent of mine, you are a criminal. This reminds me of the idiots, back in June of 06, in Florida who planned to 'blow up the Sears Tower' with residue from their tennis shoes or onions and potato peels or something. I have to go with justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow - this conviction seems like the same kind of thought crime. The "scared straight" treatment is far more logical. Bunch of kids trying to be hardcases.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:12:34 -0800

and must seek counseling from their respective Imams That is the most Canadian element of all, I think. It's lovely.