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	<title>Comments on: The Art of Onfim: Medieval Novgorod Through the Eyes of a Child</title>
	<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child/</link>
	<description>Comments on MetaFilter post The Art of Onfim: Medieval Novgorod Through the Eyes of a Child</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:50:09 -0800</pubDate>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:50:09 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>The Art of Onfim: Medieval Novgorod Through the Eyes of a Child</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child</link>	
		<description>Amazing &lt;a href=&quot;http://slavic.freeservers.com/onfim.html&quot;&gt;collection&lt;/a&gt; of sketches and doodles, drawn on &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_bark_document&quot;&gt;birch bark&lt;/a&gt;, created by a  child in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novgorod_Republic&quot;&gt;Medieval Novgorod&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">post:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:37:42 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>sidartha</dc:creator>		<category>art</category>		<category>russia</category>		<category>Medieval</category>
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		<title>By: davemee</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337171</link>	
		<description>Anyone can edit wikipedia, did you say?</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337171</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:50:09 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>davemee</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: nasreddin</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337176</link>	
		<description>Awesome, thanks! I was at a dig near Old Ryazan a few summers, but all the birchbark stuff we ever found were boring merchants&apos; letters and the like. This is really cool. (I can&apos;t read the writing, though. Languagehat probably knows more about this, but these letters don&apos;t resemble either contemporary Russian or Old Church Slavonic.)</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337176</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:53:01 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nasreddin</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: DU</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337179</link>	
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By the estimate of the archaeologists who unearthed his works, he was around seven years old at the time that he made these drawings. &lt;/i&gt;

I would estimate the same, but not from archaeological methods.  Child development has &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.education.com/magazine/article/Ed_Art_Milestones_Whats/&quot;&gt;specific art milestones&lt;/a&gt;.  Onfim draws pretty primitive humans, but they are mostly complete.  That would seem to be put him at the low end of the 7-9 stage by this link.

Also: Awesome.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337179</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:54:22 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>DU</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: nasreddin</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337181</link>	
		<description>Oh, I see it&apos;s Old Novgorodese. No wonder.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337181</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:54:53 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nasreddin</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: digaman</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337182</link>	
		<description>Very cool.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337182</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:54:55 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>digaman</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Abiezer</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337187</link>	
		<description>Fantastic! Apparently medieval Novgorod was &lt;a href=&quot;http://slavic.freeservers.com/cgi-bin/i/onfim8.jpg&quot;&gt;sorted for Es and whizz&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337187</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:58:36 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Abiezer</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: lostburner</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337188</link>	
		<description>Fascinating.  Fantastic!  Thanks!</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337188</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:58:55 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>lostburner</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion &apos;94</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337194</link>	
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://flickr.com/photos/quinnanya/133241129/in/set-72057594114359895/&quot;&gt;more on flickr&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337194</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:03:29 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion &apos;94</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: DU</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337197</link>	
		<description>Actually, looking closer and comparing to my own 7 year old, I&apos;d say Onfim is probably 5 or 6.  A real seven year old is less likely to draw 15 fingers in a broom-like arrangement.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337197</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:07:30 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>DU</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: sidartha</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337202</link>	
		<description>@East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion &apos;94
&lt;em&gt;more on flickr&lt;/em&gt;

Thanks! I didn&apos;t even think to look there.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337202</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:09:35 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>sidartha</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: barnacles</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337232</link>	
		<description>DU: I imagine it&apos;s up for some debate to what extent the art milestones are culturally specific.  Those might be the milestones for American children, sure (or even contemporary first world children), but I wouldn&apos;t use them 100% to analyze old drawings.

That said: These are great.  This is the sort of awesome stuff that makes archaeology cool.  Big sites and monuments are nice, but these things are awesome.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337232</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:34:46 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>barnacles</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: From Bklyn</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337237</link>	
		<description>In my youth, that&apos;s where I&apos;m a Viking!</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337237</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:37:46 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>From Bklyn</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: LarryC</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337241</link>	
		<description>Wonderful! Thank you for posting this.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337241</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:40:37 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>LarryC</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: The Light Fantastic</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337255</link>	
		<description>I remember all the little boys in my elementary school classes endlessly drawing tanks and planes shooting bullets (imagined as a dotted line from the gun to the enemy).  It&apos;s interesting to see that little boys never change.

Awesome and charming - thanks!</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337255</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:50:10 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>The Light Fantastic</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: 1f2frfbf</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337264</link>	
		<description>I just spent fifteen minutes I should have been working in Photoshop reading up on these and looking at all the Flickr pics. Now I&apos;m looking askance at my Wacom tablet and wondering if there&apos;s any loose bark on the sycamore trees I can see out my window...

Excellent post.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337264</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:55:28 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>1f2frfbf</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: batmonkey</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337290</link>	
		<description>I love how he does eyebrows. Very expressive. The one with the person in the background and the wide-eyed person more forward gave me a giggle, for some reason.

Really nifty stuff. Archaeology rocks.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337290</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:11:42 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>batmonkey</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion &apos;94</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337295</link>	
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://flickr.com/photos/quinnanya/133943732/in/set-72057594114359895/&quot;&gt;novgorod clown will eat you&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337295</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:13:19 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion &apos;94</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: languagehat</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337377</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Oh, I see it&apos;s Old Novgorodese.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, not so much specifically that as Old Russian.  There&apos;s a nice closeup of his alphabet chart &lt;a href=&quot;http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:Bb199.gif&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;; it&apos;s basically a form of the standard &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ocslavonic.htm&quot;&gt;Old Slavic alphabet&lt;/a&gt;.  For anyone who reads Russian, there&apos;s a nice &lt;a href=&quot;http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BC&quot;&gt;Wikipedia page&lt;/a&gt; on Onfim.  The main researcher on the language of the birch-bark documents has been historical linguist &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Zaliznyak&quot;&gt;Andrey Zaliznyak&lt;/a&gt;.

One interesting thing is that Onfim practices reading &quot;by syllables,&quot; an ancient tradition I wrote about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.languagehat.com/archives/003175.php&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;The practice was to &apos;spell&apos; a word by breaking it up into syllables and reading each with the old names of the Cyrillic letters, so that, e.g., &#1074;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;&#1082;&#1098; [velik&#1098;] would be read &apos;&#1074;&#1077;&#1076;&#1080; &#1077;&#1079;&#1100;, &#1074;&#1077;; &#1083;&#1102;&#1076;&#1080; &#1080;&#1078;&#1077;, &#1083;&#1080;, &#1074;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082;&#1086; &#1077;&#1088;&#1082;&#1098;, &#1074;&#1077;&#1083;&#1080;&#1082;&#1098;&apos; [vedi + ez&apos; = ve; lyudi + izhe = li &amp;gt; veli; kako + yerk&#1098; &amp;gt; velik&#1098;], where &lt;em&gt;vedi, ez&apos;, lyudi, izhe, kako&lt;/em&gt; are the names of the Cyrillic letters v, e, l, i, and k, but the hard sign, called yer, is read with the preceding consonant following it: yerk&#1098;, pronounced &apos;yerk.&apos;&quot; 

Nice post!</description>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:01:42 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>languagehat</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: blue_beetle</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337431</link>	
		<description>This sounds like an Onion headline: &lt;em&gt;&quot;Man becomes despondent when his artwork described as &apos;wonderful, for a 7 year old medival peasant with no education or skill&apos;.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337431</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:31:54 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>blue_beetle</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: jimmythefish</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337449</link>	
		<description>...and they say hands haven&apos;t evolved much.

&lt;small&gt;this is awesome. thanks.&lt;/small&gt;</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337449</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:39:54 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jimmythefish</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: iSimone</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337644</link>	
		<description>Beauty. I love medieval landscapes (pictures of Novgorod in Wikipedia).</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337644</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:48:43 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>iSimone</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Michael Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337777</link>	
		<description>His horses!  They have rune heads!  These are so awesome!</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337777</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:47:54 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Michael Roberts</dc:creator>
	</item>	<item>
		<title>By: JHarris</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337879</link>	
		<description>So, does these documents predate Beowulf, and if so, could we please start studying them in class instead?</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337879</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:59:32 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>JHarris</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Countess Elena</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2337908</link>	
		<description>This is one of the few archaeological discoveries that has actually made me choke up.  The very first picture did it.  

I wonder whatever became of Onfim?</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2337908</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:16:46 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Countess Elena</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Megami</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2338146</link>	
		<description>This is fantastic, thanks. 
His artwork is very reminiscent of the stuff my son is currently drawing (he is aged 4). And my son is into beasts, knights (warriors) and monsters. Funny how things are so similar across the ages.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2338146</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:57:17 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Megami</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: serazin</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/76470/The-Art-of-Onfim-Medieval-Novgorod-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Child#2338162</link>	
		<description>So cool! This is the metafilter I love!</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.76470-2338162</guid>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:08:08 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>serazin</dc:creator>
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