Comments on: More fun with Scientology!

More fun with Scientology!

changeling — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:52:13 -0800

Recently, everyone who pre-ordered a certain book on Amazon.co.uk received a letter notifying them "This item has been removed from sale for legal reasons." Amazon.com claims the book is temporarily out of stock. The book? The Complex: An Insider Exposes the Covert World of the Church of Scientology by John Duignan. Interestingly, on November 5th, Tom Cruise attended an "all hands" meeting of Amazon.com bigwigs. Photos. A random coincidence? What about all those one and two-star reviews that kept disappearing from books like Dianetics and Science of Survival?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:57:32 -0800

If Tom Cruise sat down with Amazon executives and told them not to sell a particular book, and they acquiesced to please his whims, then I would be very impressed. Maybe Mr. Cruise really does have mind control abilities!

By: DU

DU — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:58:05 -0800

Can the CoS really pose that big a threat to Amazon? Even an interminable legal battle would cost like 3 days of profits and generate tons of spinably-positive¹ news. ¹"Giant bookseller stood up to censorship today in a story that is reverberating blah blah blah..."

By: Lacking Subtlety

Lacking Subtlety — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:58:44 -0800

Seriously, about 3 minutes ago I learned my co-worker was a scientologist. I was not surprised. We once CLEARLY had a 10 minute conversation about her child... until she revealed it was her cat.

By: mattbucher

mattbucher — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:59:05 -0800

Apparently this also happened back in 1999 with Jon Atack's book.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:59:20 -0800

Also, your Post-Intelligencer link states that the book will be sold again through the US Amazon.com as soon as more books are available.

By: changeling

changeling — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:01:29 -0800

.....so they claim, billysumday.....

By: DU

DU — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:02:13 -0800

...your Post-Intelligencer link ~~states~~quotes an Amazon spokesperson that the book will be sold again through the US Amazon.com as soon as more books are available. What else are they going to say?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:02:25 -0800

You can try, billy.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:02:54 -0800

Playah!

By: Bromius

Bromius — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:06:31 -0800

Couldn't the book have been withdrawn in the UK due to their libel laws? Hasn't that been a tactic the CoS has been pursuing on the other side of the pond?

By: pixlboi

pixlboi — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:10:40 -0800

It is also unavailable at amazon.ca... CRUISE!! Damn you straight to hell!!

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:11:54 -0800

Isn't Obama doing something about this? Why the hell did we elect him?

By: Rinku

Rinku — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:13:46 -0800

CRUISE!! Damn you straight to hell!! I think he's taken care of that himself.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:16:30 -0800

"Xenu" is the sound that is made when an edge of paper slices across a sore of a syphilitic. Just thought I'd toss that into the mix.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:17:47 -0800

You know, this kind of information suppression seems like it could have worked in the 70's and 80's and maybe even up through the 90's. But now with the internet it boggles the mind how Scientology continues to exist. I mean, say I'm sad and lonely and am recruited by some Scientology member, okay, I go to the internet and look them up and HOLY SHIT these people are crazy! Same thing with Mormons - the nice lads show up at my door and give me some pamphlets and I'm intrigued by the LDS, then I hop on teh Google and OH MY LORD golden plates and seer stones, WTF! But then again it's silly to underestimate Americans - they can always be further misunderestimitated.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:18:53 -0800

I don't think this story has any teeth. There's a big, big gap, right up front. I suspect it is based on defective logic.

By: captainsohler

captainsohler — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:19:25 -0800

Scientology related: Why is there a Scientology kiosk, complete with the cans, at my local shopping mall? Normally, the only religion I see there is the one backed up by the all mighty dollar.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:20:59 -0800

I don't think this story has any teeth. There's a big, big gap, right up front. I suspect it is based on defective logic. LOLOLOLOL!!! MUST NOT DISCUSS FORMER CRUISE THREAD! (insert Drudge siren...)

By: granted

granted — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:22:31 -0800

I don't think this story has any teeth. There's a big, big gap, right up front. I suspect it is based on defective logic. That's a libelous accusation, as there's clearly one big tooth right in the middle. How many more do you need?

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:24:20 -0800

Customers who bought this item also bought:

By: changeling

changeling — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:24:50 -0800

granted.... I JUST DIED.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:25:42 -0800

...am recruited by some Scientology member, okay, I go to the internet... If there's one thing cult and religion members are known for, it's intellectual due process.

By: Durn Bronzefist

Durn Bronzefist — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:34:07 -0800

You know of what I speak, Metafilter. A great eye, lidless, wreathed in flame. The eye of Siri. Very soon she will summon an army great enough to launch an assault upon the intarwebs.

By: Ben Light

Ben Light — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:34:30 -0800

Tom Cruise may be a *REDACTED*. But he can't be all that bad when this very thread is proudly brought to you by the Tom Cruise Official Website. (Warning: images may cause distress to some viewers.)

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:34:39 -0800

I think you mean "intellectual due diligence"? Scientology is known for trying to scrub information it doesn't like off the internet, too, billysumday.

By: angry jonny

angry jonny — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:59 -0800

Seems a little hypocritical - Scientology wouldn't exist without the publishing of a crappy book. Hmmmm... I guess every religion has their book, though, don't they? Tom Cruise can't clog the tubes, tho.

By: willmize

willmize — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:03 -0800

It's just a matter of minutes before someone scans it, puts it on a torrent and before you can say "Xenu's a bloody alien!", out there for anyone and everyone to enjoy and marvel over. In other news, I can't wait for "Valkyrie". TC looks spiffy in an eyepatch. Might get him that Oscar he's been coveting for so long.

By: grubi

grubi — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:22 -0800

Now that I put this on my wish list, will the Scientologists begin their unlawful assault on my livelihood?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:35 -0800

Scientology is known for trying to scrub information it doesn't like off the internet, too, billysumday. You think I could get a job with Scientology where I just seek stuff out on the internet and shoot off an attorney form letter asking them to cease and desist? That's gotta be a bummer of a job. Maybe that's what middle-rank Scientologists have to do before they're promoted to Sea Captain or whatever.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:41:04 -0800

guess every religion has their book, though, don't they? Kibology mostly just has the newsfeed, though I guess there are a couple of PDFs floating around.

By: batmonkey

batmonkey — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:44:21 -0800

Hm. I think I'm going to go back to using Powell's for online book shopping.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:46:42 -0800

It's just a matter of minutes before someone scans it, puts it on a torrent and before you can say "Xenu's a bloody alien!", out there for anyone and everyone to enjoy and marvel over. Sure, but who torrents books? That's a significantly smaller demographic than the people who order via Amazon, and it gives the book a veneer of "fringe". Honestly, though, with all the bad press Scientology gets, I'm consistently surprised there are people left who aren't aware it's a pyramid scheme, like Herbalife, only with aliens.

By: paisley henosis

paisley henosis — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:59:44 -0800

And you know what else? I ordered a tea pot on Amazon last week, and not only did they take 4 days to fill the order, they shipped it from Reno, on the slowest truck leaving town! And UPS hasn't updated the tracking information since 16 minutes into Tuesday!

By: Law Talkin' Guy

Law Talkin' Guy — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:01:21 -0800

We once CLEARLY had a 10 minute conversation about her child... until she revealed it was her cat. Next year it'll be her pet clam as part of a Sea Org investigation of Scientology's "theory" of evolution, so be grateful your 10 minutes with her were over because she went completely downhill.

By: filthy light thief

filthy light thief — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:16:09 -0800

But wikipedia says Herbalife is a multi-level marketing product, not a pyramid scheme. Wikipedia is always right! Oh, but lower down there's a section on litigation in 2004. And Herbalife is associated with those shady crazy fox TV promos. Hmm. Well, there aren't any big-name (and middle-name) celebrities associated with Scientology, so it has to be real! Jason Lee is an alright guy by me (mostly), and would Doug E Fresh lie to me? Oh, he would? And Jason Lee doesn't publicly announce his (crazy) beliefs? You got me there, too.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:17:39 -0800

Man, what's happened to Metafilter? Used to be a time a Scientology post would get at least a hundred comments, complete with a vigorous defense of Scientology and vicious condemnation of Catholicism by comment 25 at the latest. Are we really reduced to slyly referencing the post that dare not speak its name, a harkening back to MeFi's glory days? Playing the greatest hits one more time, for old times' sake? Perhaps our little Wild West here has been tamed. And for shame, for shame.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:28:23 -0800

Just checking my copy of the comment that dare not be posted and I see the related metatalk post was deleted. I did not know that.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:29:12 -0800

That's why one dares not speak its name.

By: wendell

wendell — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:31:52 -0800

The MetaFilter Bad Religion Fighters are busy battling the Mormons over Proposition Hate. There are only so many fronts you can commit resources to, and so many Bad Religions out there. Maybe if we find a way to pit the Scientologists against the Mormons so they can beat each other up; it worked for a while with the Fundie Christians and the Fundie Muslims.

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:48:57 -0800

I see the related metatalk post was deleted. Link?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:50:12 -0800

http://metatalk.metafilter.com/13333/

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:53:55 -0800

MetaFilter badly needs a 'glibness' flag.

By: Paid In Full

Paid In Full — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:58:24 -0800

Can I get a summary of "the comment" that uses say, vegetables, instead of identifying details?

By: Salvor Hardin

Salvor Hardin — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:58:59 -0800

Wendell's got a great idea here. We just need a couple of fake CoS blogs and a couple of fake Mormon blogs, fill to the line with vitriol, light fuse, and run. Inspired by a McCain policy advisor.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:00:10 -0800

Maybe if we find a way to pit the Scientologists against the Mormons so they can beat each other up; it worked for a while with the Fundie Christians and the Fundie Muslims. For a while? We'll be paying for that matchup for the rest of our lives.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:01:21 -0800

Just checking my copy of the comment that dare not be posted... Wow now it's SELF-supercensorship. Wooo!

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:01:44 -0800

Can I get a summary of "the comment" that uses say, vegetables, instead of identifying details? Exercising a little Google-fu will get your far enough.

By: jamstigator

jamstigator — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:03:46 -0800

The key is to pit one Bad Religion against another. There's gotta be some way to get the Mormons attacking the Scientologists. 'Hey Mormons, the Scientologists said that your mysterious tablets are what Xemu used for toilet paper!' 'Hey Scientologists, the Mormons say that their American Jesus can eat Xemu for breakfast, with both hands tied to a cross!'

By: Paid In Full

Paid In Full — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:06:45 -0800

Exercising a little Google-fu will get your far enough. Indeed, I see it now. Was it yanked due to legal threats or mod judgement?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:08:42 -0800

I think a little combination of both.

By: Salvor Hardin

Salvor Hardin — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:09:17 -0800

LDS vs CoS

By: krautland

krautland — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:10:03 -0800

I hate FPP's that end with question marks. bezos is pretty much online all the time. heck, he even responded to one my my emails. did nobody ask?

By: rokusan

rokusan — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:12:24 -0800

The very very good Hubbard bio Bare Faced Messiah seems to also be unavailable at Amazon, other than through used resellers. Great book. Very recommended. Made me admire the guy to death. Such chutzpah!

By: fourcheesemac

fourcheesemac — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:16:58 -0800

Question is, what's scientology's connection with Amazon? Surely this wasn't a one time act of applying pressure. Is Amazon a CoS front? Because if they're doing CoS bidding in any way and it comes out, they're losing about $2500 a year in business from me.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:17:43 -0800

Great book. Very recommended. Made me admire the guy to death. Such chutzpah! Agreed. It takes a certain kind of man to state that he's going to start a religion for the purpose of making a shit-ton of money, then do it, then live a life of drugs and women, surrounded by sycophants and indulging himself with ships and whatnot, satisfying his unquenchable thirst for nautical porn. It's like a pedophile telling his friend, "I'm going to rise to the rank of Police Chief, so that when I diddle little boys, I can just cover it up and keep doing it forever," and then ten years later you find out that he's become Police Chief, is single, and is the youth pastor at a local church, and a coach for the 10 and under YMCA basketball team.

By: rodgerd

rodgerd — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:17:45 -0800

I mean, say I'm sad and lonely and am recruited by some Scientology member, okay, I go to the internet and look them up and HOLY SHIT these people are crazy! Same thing with Mormons - the nice lads show up at my door and give me some pamphlets and I'm intrigued by the LDS, then I hop on teh Google and OH MY LORD golden plates and seer stones, WTF! Most religions are, when you get down to it, riddled with really... quaint... claims. Seriously, every week you eat a magic cookie that turns into the flesh of your god? Your holy book says pi is 3? God is all-loving and all-powerful, which is why two year olds get eaten alive by dogs? ...complete with a vigorous defense of Scientology and vicious condemnation of Catholicism by comment 25 at the latest. I'll try to work something up.

By: changeling

changeling — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:23:18 -0800

you mean, riddled with really... quaint... ~~claims~~ clams.

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:27:29 -0800

*sigh* clops.

By: Snowflake

Snowflake — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:33:03 -0800

The very very good Hubbard bio Bare Faced Messiah seems to also be unavailable at Amazon, other than through used resellers. I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that you can read Bare Faced Messiah online for free, courtesy of xenu.net. That's where I found it (and read it). It's an excellent book. Almost makes me want to start my own religion...

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:35:40 -0800

The key is to pit one Bad Religion against another. Round 1: BEGIN

By: Snowflake

Snowflake — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:37:34 -0800

Hmm... I may have been mistaken... This link at nots.org seems to be more familiar, so that's probably where I read Bare Faced Messiah. Either way, read once, read often. It's a great story.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:40:51 -0800

Round 1: BEGIN I think CoS versus LDS would make excellent Mortal Combat characters. CoS would be dressed in a black turtleneck, and have a "thetan ray" that fires from his palms. LDS would, of course, have that white shirt with black pants combo, and would be able to fan out a barrage of pamphlets. Who would win? There can be only one!

By: quin

quin — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:40 -0800

I don't like Scientology. But not for the obvious reasons; my parents were murdered by an evil space lord who chained them and millions of other people to volcanoes, and then set off nuclear weapons to incinerate them. As a result, I had a lonely childhood. Then one day I was reading in a library, and a kid came up behind be and smacked me over the head with a hardcover of Dianetics (or maybe it was Battlefield Earth. Whatever, it was big, heavy, and written by Hubbard.) That book gave me a really bad headache and I've never liked anything associated with that writer since.

By: infobomb

infobomb — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:57:18 -0800

I've briefly met John Duignan but not got the book yet. I hope people read his book in paper form, not some shared-on-the-net version, because he, his co-writer and publisher have clearly taken a risk bringing this to us. In the description in The Register's link, it says he exposes the punishments of cult members including children. What they do to children, including the "Sec Check Children" (google it) is amongst the most distressing aspects of this cult. If I were running Scientology, I know I'd pull out all the stops to prevent discussion of it. Bare-Faced Messiah is a great book, but for a quicker alternative I'd recommend the "Secret Lives: L. Ron Hubbard" TV documentary that is available on YT. The makers of that programme had more than their fair share of harassment from the "Church".

By: DU

DU — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:39:52 -0800

Kibology mostly just has the newsfeed... omg I saw a "KIBO" license plate on the way home.

By: wendell

wendell — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:53:56 -0800

Sure, the Fundie Christians vs. Fundie Muslims match-up is costing us all a few trillion bucks, but imagine how much crappier life would be for the rest of us if the two groups were working together. And the strategy might work even better if that Dawkins dude would just hold it down.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:01:23 -0800

And the strategy might work even better if that Dawkins dude would just hold it down. But Dawkins' sense of self-satisfaction could be harnessed to power the entire eastern seaboard. We need to think of the planet!

By: Durn Bronzefist

Durn Bronzefist — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:13:45 -0800

In September 2002, lawyers for Scientology contacted Internet Archive (archive.org), the administrators of the Wayback Machine and asserted copyright claims on certain materials archived as historical contents of the Operation Clambake site. In response, the Wayback Machine administration removed the archive of the entire Clambake site, initially posting a false claim that the site's author had requested its removal. This claim has been removed but (as of February 2008) the site still returns a "Blocked Site Error" from the Wayback archive.[60] Wow. Didn't know that one.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:50:39 -0800

Am I the only one that sees 'CoS' and thinks of Curse of Shadows first?

By: scalefree

scalefree — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:03:16 -0800

Those who want to order the book online but don't want to wait for Amazon to pull its head out of its ass can order it directly from the publisher here.

By: scalefree

scalefree — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:36:33 -0800

There's another new book by an ex-Scientologist about escaping the cult that seems to be having trouble getting published: Escaping Scientology: An Insider's True Story by Karen Schless Pressley.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:06:51 -0800

"It takes a certain kind of man to state that he's going to start a religion for the purpose of making a shit-ton of money, then do it, then live a life of drugs and women, surrounded by sycophants and indulging himself..." I remember playing video poker obsessively for a stretch on my pda. One day I hit a royal flush. I was like "WOW! Royal Flush. I won hundreds of thousands of ... waitaminute. This is all bullshit!" Yeah L. Ron was nuts. Del Close met him. (Maybe. Either way he wrote about him. Said he was nuts.) L. Ron was like one of those cocaine rats that keeps pressing the switch until they die. I mean, hedonism is ok, but damn, it's not the lifestyle its the endless repetition. L. Ron was pretty much the epitomie of what Blake was talking about in terms of Newton Sleep. This push-pull religion of his. Sheesh. To me, most other religions are tolerable because when it comes right down to it, it's not about the religion really. Oh, there's the guy on the cross, or the ritual in the temple or whatever, but mostly - it's just a pretext for being together. (And, on holidays, eating) Like saying "We should go out for coffee." Well you don't really want the coffee, it's not about the coffee at all. Same deal. Of course, you do have some people who obsess over coffee. They listen to the Coffee Cantata by J.S. Bach while cleaning their espresso machines and gathering their beans from exclusive stores and worrying about the roasting and on and on. I suspect they don't get as much out of the company or the experience. (anyone who reads too closely into that metaphor and starts arguing coffee with me? Yeah, it's you I'm talking about) I mean, life is way too important to take too seriously.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:12:34 -0800

I used to spend a metric shit ton on Kopi Luwak, until I realized that it was just as good if I processed it myself.

By: sondrialiac

sondrialiac — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:33:25 -0800

Oh, there's the guy on the cross, or the ritual in the temple or whatever, but mostly - it's just a pretext for being together. (And, on holidays, eating) Unitarian Universalists perfected this.

By: ShadowCrash

ShadowCrash — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:22:51 -0800

BillySumday wrote

Also, your Post-Intelligencer link states that the book will be sold again through the US Amazon.com as soon as more books are available.

Just to support the author, I tried to order it from Amazon in the US when this post first came out. Today I received the following email from Amazon:

Though we had expected to be able to send this item to you, we've since found that it is not available from any of our sources at this time. We realize this is disappointing news to hear, and we apologize for the inconvenience we have caused you. We have cancelled this item from your order.

Now I'm going to have to order 2 copies. Anyone know of a different source?

By: scalefree

scalefree — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:16:09 -0800

Anyone know of a different source? Try ordering directly from the publisher here (via).