Resistance in Tibet?
November 30, 2008 5:21 AM Subscribe
The Tibetan Youth Congress has been described as an organization bent on terror wherein Young Tibetans ‘will resist China with blood’.
Well, everything they've done so far has failed.
And this is total hyperbole.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:18 AM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
And this is total hyperbole.
Yet China calls the Tibetan Youth Congress "a terror group worse than (Osama) bin Laden's" and accuses it of stockpiling guns, bombs and grenades in Tibet for use by separatist fighters.It's a bit difficult for me to feel bad for people that could just stay out. China is deliberately encouraging immigration into Tibet, will the war with population. My guess is that once you have the stabilizing influence of the Dalai Lama go away (on his death or before) you will see Asymmetric warfare like never before.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:18 AM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've always found it incredibly hypocritical to see the 'Boycott Chinese goods' signs all over Northern India and then walk into any Tibetan market and all they sell is Chinese junk.
posted by gman at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by gman at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2008
The Dalai Lama has spoken against a boycott of Chinese made goods. In his statement on this matter, we are reminded of the meaning of the term "for all", as in, "compassion for all". His Holiness includes his enemies. I do not understand how this can be transposed into productive statecraft, when applied as the only strategy.
posted by Goofyy at 8:04 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by Goofyy at 8:04 AM on November 30, 2008
Everybody knows the Tibetan Youth Congress is... wait a minute. I have no idea what this FPP is talking about. A little context, please?
posted by KokuRyu at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by KokuRyu at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2008
This seems like a cynical attempt by China to exploit the current terrorism jitters of the Indian people. I'm not really sure what that's supposed to accomplish, since AFAIK India wouldn't be the intended target of any Tibetan "terrorism." Perhaps China is planning to use "OMG India harbors ter'rists" as justification for actions against India?
That would not be good.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:38 AM on November 30, 2008
That would not be good.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:38 AM on November 30, 2008
India is a nuclear power. China won't mess with them in any serious way.
posted by Malor at 9:47 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by Malor at 9:47 AM on November 30, 2008
Angry China flexing muscle with Europe over Tibet
posted by homunculus at 10:01 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by homunculus at 10:01 AM on November 30, 2008
It's hard to have compassion for all sentient beings and fight for your homeland at the same time, but they seem ready to try. They already compassionately beat up a bunch ethnic Han in riots earlier this year.
posted by RussHy at 10:32 AM on November 30, 2008
posted by RussHy at 10:32 AM on November 30, 2008
They already compassionately beat up a bunch of ethnic Han Chinese in riots earlier this year in Chinese-occupied Tibet.
The "ethnic Han" aren't exactly victims of genocide. Indeed, it's quite the opposite.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:13 AM on November 30, 2008
The "ethnic Han" aren't exactly victims of genocide. Indeed, it's quite the opposite.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:13 AM on November 30, 2008
The "ethnic Han" aren't exactly victims of genocide. Indeed, it's quite the opposite.
...and beating anyone up is quite the opposite of compassion or the middle path.
posted by gman at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2008
...and beating anyone up is quite the opposite of compassion or the middle path.
posted by gman at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2008
They already compassionately beat up a bunch ethnic Han in riots earlier this year.
Contrary to simplistic Western attempts to stereotype those Tibetans as all alike and all expected to be perfectly holy and transcendent, they are not, of course, in their patience, committment to the rarified ideals of Buddhism, or political stridency.
Also, even at the time of the unrest there was some suspicion voiced in both Tibetan and Western press that those conveniently filmed beatings may have been staged, particularly the ones that featured Tibetan monks in robes seemingly attacking innocent Chinese storekeepers.
posted by aught at 11:35 AM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Contrary to simplistic Western attempts to stereotype those Tibetans as all alike and all expected to be perfectly holy and transcendent, they are not, of course, in their patience, committment to the rarified ideals of Buddhism, or political stridency.
Also, even at the time of the unrest there was some suspicion voiced in both Tibetan and Western press that those conveniently filmed beatings may have been staged, particularly the ones that featured Tibetan monks in robes seemingly attacking innocent Chinese storekeepers.
posted by aught at 11:35 AM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Did Britain just sell Tibet? (since the start of the financial crisis).
Has anyone else noticed a shift in the way Tibetan issues are covered since the start of the financial crisis/ the Beijing games? It seems to me that the media has been a lot less sympathetic to the Tibetans in recent months.
(Also, incidents such as this and received a lot of coverage in China, by Chinese netizens, so there may be greater sensitivity to accusations of bias on the part of the Western media).
On another point, re: 'It's a bit difficult for me to feel bad for people who could just stay out'. Well, part of the issue is that there's wide disagreement over where the border of Tibet actually are - just look at this map to see the greatly different claims by different groups. In particular, the areas which Tibetan exile groups claim are part of Tibet but which are not part of the Tibetan Autonomous Region include significant and long-standing Han populations who have been there for generations. If you try and partition that, it looks to me like another Yugoslavia or Indian partition in the making. The Dalai Lama's position of arguing for autonomy rather than full independence seems much wiser.
posted by plep at 11:59 AM on November 30, 2008
Has anyone else noticed a shift in the way Tibetan issues are covered since the start of the financial crisis/ the Beijing games? It seems to me that the media has been a lot less sympathetic to the Tibetans in recent months.
(Also, incidents such as this and received a lot of coverage in China, by Chinese netizens, so there may be greater sensitivity to accusations of bias on the part of the Western media).
On another point, re: 'It's a bit difficult for me to feel bad for people who could just stay out'. Well, part of the issue is that there's wide disagreement over where the border of Tibet actually are - just look at this map to see the greatly different claims by different groups. In particular, the areas which Tibetan exile groups claim are part of Tibet but which are not part of the Tibetan Autonomous Region include significant and long-standing Han populations who have been there for generations. If you try and partition that, it looks to me like another Yugoslavia or Indian partition in the making. The Dalai Lama's position of arguing for autonomy rather than full independence seems much wiser.
posted by plep at 11:59 AM on November 30, 2008
Chinese bloggers declare war on Western media's Tibet coverage.
If anything, I got the impression the Chinese government may have tried to calm things down for fear that things were getting out of control.
posted by plep at 12:02 PM on November 30, 2008
If anything, I got the impression the Chinese government may have tried to calm things down for fear that things were getting out of control.
posted by plep at 12:02 PM on November 30, 2008
I find the sarcastic claims of hypocrisy and the dismissive comments like "well, there goes the middle path" to be pretty rich. For those of us sitting here in the United States, did we gain liberty by feeling compassion for the British? The path of compassion was chosen as a strategy by Tibet's leaders, but that doesn't mean all Tibetans necessarily agree with it.
I'm not saying the actions of this group are necessarily right or strategically sound. But don't assume they're being hypocritical.
posted by lunasol at 12:41 PM on November 30, 2008
I'm not saying the actions of this group are necessarily right or strategically sound. But don't assume they're being hypocritical.
posted by lunasol at 12:41 PM on November 30, 2008
It seems to me that the media has been a lot less sympathetic to the Tibetans in recent months.
I've had that impression too. I think it's partly from fear of angering China, but also I think a lot of people are just bored with the issue and wish it would go away. More and more people seem to think the Tibetans should just shut up and accept that they've been conquered.
posted by homunculus at 1:16 PM on November 30, 2008
I've had that impression too. I think it's partly from fear of angering China, but also I think a lot of people are just bored with the issue and wish it would go away. More and more people seem to think the Tibetans should just shut up and accept that they've been conquered.
posted by homunculus at 1:16 PM on November 30, 2008
Chinese government commit genocide against Tibetan people and then Chinese citizens get angry at anyone who dares feel bad for the Tibetans. "They deserved it, the bastards," say Chinese bloggers.
Sidenote: I met a LOT of people in China who thought Hitler was a great man. I'm not kidding.
posted by 1adam12 at 2:08 PM on November 30, 2008
Sidenote: I met a LOT of people in China who thought Hitler was a great man. I'm not kidding.
posted by 1adam12 at 2:08 PM on November 30, 2008
Great or misunderstood?
Hitler: No, you fools! Juice! Wipe the juice off the face of Janet!
posted by Sys Rq at 2:45 PM on November 30, 2008 [3 favorites]
Hitler: No, you fools! Juice! Wipe the juice off the face of Janet!
posted by Sys Rq at 2:45 PM on November 30, 2008 [3 favorites]
gman - great. My roommate was REALLY angry at the Japanese over WWII, but didn't quite understand what the big deal about Hitler was. This is part of a pattern: everything is an outrage if it happens to Chinese people, but nothing can be that bad if Chinese people do it to other people. Hence, Nanjing Massacre: outrage. Murdering 1/3 of the Tibetan people: strictly no big deal. Sort of the same nonchalance that Americans feel over the Indian wars, except Tibet is still happening.
A lot of the problem here is a flat denial of basic historical facts. That's why we keep hearing bullshit like "Tibet has always been a part of China," when you have to do about 10 minutes' worth of research to discover that Tibet nearly conquered China during the Tang Dynasty. That's also why it's so easy to uncover crap like this.
I also heard a lot of gross racial stereotypes while I was there. Tibetans were ignorant and dirty, Uighers were dangerous lying thieves, and we Jews are apparently smart and rich. The funny thing (if you want to call it that) was that the Tibetans and Uighers I met living in Beijing were just about the nicest people living in the entire city, as far as I could tell.
posted by 1adam12 at 3:02 PM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
A lot of the problem here is a flat denial of basic historical facts. That's why we keep hearing bullshit like "Tibet has always been a part of China," when you have to do about 10 minutes' worth of research to discover that Tibet nearly conquered China during the Tang Dynasty. That's also why it's so easy to uncover crap like this.
I also heard a lot of gross racial stereotypes while I was there. Tibetans were ignorant and dirty, Uighers were dangerous lying thieves, and we Jews are apparently smart and rich. The funny thing (if you want to call it that) was that the Tibetans and Uighers I met living in Beijing were just about the nicest people living in the entire city, as far as I could tell.
posted by 1adam12 at 3:02 PM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was joking. I've had lots of Chinese tell me they love Hitler. I've also run into incredible racism all across Asia. The Koreans, the Chinese, The Japanese. It don't matter. Each one is superior to the other.
posted by gman at 3:54 PM on November 30, 2008
posted by gman at 3:54 PM on November 30, 2008
Didn't stop the Mongols from conquering most of 'em, did it?
posted by 1adam12 at 4:30 PM on November 30, 2008
posted by 1adam12 at 4:30 PM on November 30, 2008
East Asian politics often reminds me of the situation in Eastern Europe as performed by people who really ought to know better. You have South Koreans killing pheasants, chopping off their fingers and stomping on Japanese flags, Chinese who stalk and threaten insufficiently patriotic students and hack insufficiently patriotic celebrities, and so forth. In such a political situation it is a testament to the unifying power of the Dalai Lama that Tibet has been as quiet as it is. After his death, of course, the situation may become quite dangerous.
posted by shii at 5:27 PM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by shii at 5:27 PM on November 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sort of the same nonchalance that Americans feel over the Indian wars, except Tibet is still happening.
We're nonchalant about that? Maybe I was just raised in a more left-leaning area, but I kind of though the extermination of the Indians was seen, alongside slavery, as one of our nation's worst crimes.
posted by Xezlec at 7:12 PM on November 30, 2008
We're nonchalant about that? Maybe I was just raised in a more left-leaning area, but I kind of though the extermination of the Indians was seen, alongside slavery, as one of our nation's worst crimes.
posted by Xezlec at 7:12 PM on November 30, 2008
Sort of the same nonchalance that Americans feel over the Indian wars, except Tibet is still happening.
We're nonchalant about that? Maybe I was just raised in a more left-leaning area, but I kind of though the extermination of the Indians was seen, alongside slavery, as one of our nation's worst crimes.
Exactly, but Chinese people I know use what the U.S. did to the Native Americans as an justification for what they are doing in Tibet
posted by afu at 12:29 AM on December 1, 2008
We're nonchalant about that? Maybe I was just raised in a more left-leaning area, but I kind of though the extermination of the Indians was seen, alongside slavery, as one of our nation's worst crimes.
Exactly, but Chinese people I know use what the U.S. did to the Native Americans as an justification for what they are doing in Tibet
posted by afu at 12:29 AM on December 1, 2008
At the time it was happening, evidently a lot of people did not object to the extermination of Indians, much less think it a horrible crime, because it was Manifest Destiny blah blah blah... so it's not unreasonable to think that Chinese feel the same way now towards Tibet.
posted by desjardins at 10:08 AM on December 1, 2008
posted by desjardins at 10:08 AM on December 1, 2008
Exactly, but Chinese people I know use what the U.S. did to the Native Americans as an justification for what they are doing in Tibet
While small children are routinely chastized with the adage "two wrongs don't make a right," two wrongs making a right has pretty much always been considered sound government policy.
posted by aught at 1:24 PM on December 1, 2008
While small children are routinely chastized with the adage "two wrongs don't make a right," two wrongs making a right has pretty much always been considered sound government policy.
posted by aught at 1:24 PM on December 1, 2008
China says Sarkozy will pay for meeting Dalai Lama
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on December 8, 2008
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posted by DenOfSizer at 5:31 AM on November 30, 2008