Machines Eating Machines
December 14, 2008 4:47 PM Subscribe
Iron Sky: In 1945 the Nazis fled to the moon. In 2018 they are coming back. This movie is part of the newest fad, DieselPunk (the next evolution of SteamPunk).
I hate it already. (DieselPunk that is)
posted by Eekacat at 4:50 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Eekacat at 4:50 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I thought the next evolution of steampunk was going to be a Heaven's Gate style mass suicide.
posted by saladin at 4:53 PM on December 14, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by saladin at 4:53 PM on December 14, 2008 [7 favorites]
The next evolution of SteamPunk is SteamWave, after which comes the SteamEmo, or Steam-O.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2008 [11 favorites]
then bio-punk, clock-punk, nano-punk, squid-punk...Squid-punk, eh? Now I understand the goggles.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
So does "[x]punk" just mean "imagine a stylized Hollywood version of the time period in which [x] was in widespread use, except also add mechs to it"? Because if so, horsepunk here I come! Giant walking robots propelled by horses walking on treadmills in the soles of their shoes! I WILL MAKE A TRILLION DOLLARS DO NOT STEAL MY IDEA
posted by penduluum at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2008 [20 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2008 [20 favorites]
Can it really be a fad if BoingBoing hasn't namedropped it yet?
Hold on, they have. Go nuts, haters, I'm staying out of this one.
posted by ardgedee at 5:06 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hold on, they have. Go nuts, haters, I'm staying out of this one.
posted by ardgedee at 5:06 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I thought the next evolution of steampunk was going to be a Heaven's Gate style mass suicide.
You thought or you hoped?
posted by gman at 5:07 PM on December 14, 2008
You thought or you hoped?
posted by gman at 5:07 PM on December 14, 2008
Diesel Punks Fuck Off!
posted by cazoo at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2008 [13 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2008 [13 favorites]
Great, I was in a good mood after seeing shoes get thrown at Bush right up until I found out this shit existed.
posted by dead cousin ted at 5:18 PM on December 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by dead cousin ted at 5:18 PM on December 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
I find it interesting that the Nazis still have those cool sidecars on the moon. No wait, I find it INCREDIBLY STUPID.
posted by stargell at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by stargell at 5:19 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
saladin writes "I thought the next evolution of steampunk was going to be a Heaven's Gate style mass suicide."
You misspelled "hoped".
posted by orthogonality at 5:22 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
You misspelled "hoped".
posted by orthogonality at 5:22 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I thought the next evolution was Rokokopunk?
...
too soon?
posted by The Whelk at 5:26 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
...
too soon?
posted by The Whelk at 5:26 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
If Nixon-era drama becomes popular again, we may be treated to gatepunk. (Or would that be punk-gate?)
posted by SPrintF at 5:34 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by SPrintF at 5:34 PM on December 14, 2008
So is Fallout atompunk?
posted by adamdschneider at 5:38 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by adamdschneider at 5:38 PM on December 14, 2008
It's only going to get worse. The logical [energysource]-punk sequence from here on in would be: unleadedpunk, rocketfuelpunk, nuclearpunk, hybridpunk, and then, what...greenpunk?
If, in three years, I see some kid wearing combat boots, goggles, and a small cache of wind turbines, I swear to god I am going to slap him in the ear.* (I think the goggles are there to keep you from getting at the eyes.)
Kidding! You can hurt people like that.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:43 PM on December 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
If, in three years, I see some kid wearing combat boots, goggles, and a small cache of wind turbines, I swear to god I am going to slap him in the ear.* (I think the goggles are there to keep you from getting at the eyes.)
Kidding! You can hurt people like that.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:43 PM on December 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
Damn. NoMich beat me to it.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:44 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:44 PM on December 14, 2008
Once again, Urban Dictionary sifts through the spin and gives us the facts!
posted by hellojed at 5:51 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by hellojed at 5:51 PM on December 14, 2008
The next evolution of SteamPunk is SteamWave, after which comes the SteamEmo, or Steam-O.
So... eventually we'll reach DieselEmo, which is kind of like Emo kids wearing conformist sheep jeans...
posted by qvantamon at 6:04 PM on December 14, 2008
So... eventually we'll reach DieselEmo, which is kind of like Emo kids wearing conformist sheep jeans...
posted by qvantamon at 6:04 PM on December 14, 2008
Stone-punk checking in here - my goggles are made out of twigs and muscovite. I'm more excited to find out that I never noticed there are more Star Wreck films out there, yay.
posted by thylacine at 6:06 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by thylacine at 6:06 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
Bikepunk... Footpunk... Gyropunk... Crunkpunk... Streetpunk... Netpunk... Flashpunk... Bananapunk... Flowpunk... Cranepunk... Jupiterpunk...
I thought of all of these first and this is proof.
posted by fuq at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2008
I thought of all of these first and this is proof.
posted by fuq at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2008
Punkpunk. Stick that in your dieselpipe and smoke it!
posted by evidenceofabsence at 6:27 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by evidenceofabsence at 6:27 PM on December 14, 2008
Dieselpunk. Wow, Gardner Dozois must be really regretting his use of the c-p word in that review of Neuromancer right about now.
posted by egypturnash at 6:32 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by egypturnash at 6:32 PM on December 14, 2008
Failpunk.
posted by unmake at 6:49 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by unmake at 6:49 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
This thread is funny.
posted by billysumday at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by billysumday at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2008
Punk discussion aside, I think the trailer is intriguing, and I quite like the song playing under it. Looking around online the two minute version under the trailer appears to be all that's available. Pity.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:53 PM on December 14, 2008
I always find the pop-culture appropriation of Nazi symbols, imagery and aesthetics unsettling and unfortunate.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:56 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by KokuRyu at 6:56 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
Personally I'm waiting for Worst Case Scenario - NAZI ZOMBIES! WITH PARACHUTES!
posted by mrbill at 7:09 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by mrbill at 7:09 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
further afield, combine energy source + musical genre =
Nukewave? Greenmo? CoalCabaret? OilOrganum? SolarSpeedcore?
posted by edgeways at 7:09 PM on December 14, 2008
Nukewave? Greenmo? CoalCabaret? OilOrganum? SolarSpeedcore?
posted by edgeways at 7:09 PM on December 14, 2008
I always find the pop-culture appropriation of Nazi symbols, imagery and aesthetics unsettling and unfortunate.
I say this as the furthest thing from a nazi-sympathizer, but there is something alluring about the forbidden. And aesthetic movements based heavily in classicism.
Morally, it may be suspect, but from a purely aesthetic standpoint I understand why people go for it. Same with lot of fascist/dictitorial movements, actually.
posted by piratebowling at 7:12 PM on December 14, 2008
I say this as the furthest thing from a nazi-sympathizer, but there is something alluring about the forbidden. And aesthetic movements based heavily in classicism.
Morally, it may be suspect, but from a purely aesthetic standpoint I understand why people go for it. Same with lot of fascist/dictitorial movements, actually.
posted by piratebowling at 7:12 PM on December 14, 2008
Plus, a lot of the stuff diesel punk is borrowing from is art-deco, which was more of an international movement, not just focusing on the Nazis (look at the Chrystler building!).
posted by piratebowling at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by piratebowling at 7:14 PM on December 14, 2008
None of these extremely stupidly-named genres have anything to do with Punk.
Just boring alternate-history SF.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:20 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just boring alternate-history SF.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:20 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I want to do a Noir-ish film set in a Dr. Seuss inspired universe and call it GeiselPunk.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:21 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:21 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
I propose all versions should replace the word Punk with something better, like Funk. Or Spunk, perhaps.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:42 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:42 PM on December 14, 2008
I don't recall if I found this video linked on DarkRoastedBlend or not, but here's a video of that screw-drive "ZiL" vehicle they showed in their post... it's unstoppable!
posted by Clamwacker at 7:48 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Clamwacker at 7:48 PM on December 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
None of these extremely stupidly-named genres have anything to do with Punk.
Just boring alternate-history SF.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:20 PM on December 14
There's something more to it than that, I think. There's an amazement involved, similar to the amazement directed at fantastic far-future imaginary technologies. And that's the problem - the hypersapce, warp drives of futuristic sci-fi is seen as equivalent to the steam engines, gear trains, and now internal combustion engines. This is equivalences is based in the inability to understand how the realistic techonolsgy of the past was invented and then developed. The inability to make old technology "go" elevates it to a kind of magic, in a perverse corollary of clarke's statement that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Here, and sufficiently functional technology is indistinguishable from magic.
In reality, there was no steam era that gave way to the diesel era. The two co-existed for longer than either existed alone.
I also think that among people who spend their lives immersed in computers, digital technology with no moving parts, the possibilities held by thermodynamics married to a bit of mechanical engineering offer a sense of wonder. In principle, steam engines are easy to understand, but there is a massive distance between the principle and moving a few thousand tons by rail that can only be closed by working out substantial material and engineering problems. I think here is a desire for building a machine with one's hands that isn't satisfied by programming software.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:00 PM on December 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
Just boring alternate-history SF.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:20 PM on December 14
There's something more to it than that, I think. There's an amazement involved, similar to the amazement directed at fantastic far-future imaginary technologies. And that's the problem - the hypersapce, warp drives of futuristic sci-fi is seen as equivalent to the steam engines, gear trains, and now internal combustion engines. This is equivalences is based in the inability to understand how the realistic techonolsgy of the past was invented and then developed. The inability to make old technology "go" elevates it to a kind of magic, in a perverse corollary of clarke's statement that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Here, and sufficiently functional technology is indistinguishable from magic.
In reality, there was no steam era that gave way to the diesel era. The two co-existed for longer than either existed alone.
I also think that among people who spend their lives immersed in computers, digital technology with no moving parts, the possibilities held by thermodynamics married to a bit of mechanical engineering offer a sense of wonder. In principle, steam engines are easy to understand, but there is a massive distance between the principle and moving a few thousand tons by rail that can only be closed by working out substantial material and engineering problems. I think here is a desire for building a machine with one's hands that isn't satisfied by programming software.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:00 PM on December 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
I thought the next evolution of steampunk was dutch oven.
posted by scarello at 8:17 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by scarello at 8:17 PM on December 14, 2008
There better be one or two Vomacts in it, or Mr Linebarger is going to ponderously tsk tsk at them from the great beyond.
posted by Iosephus at 8:21 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by Iosephus at 8:21 PM on December 14, 2008
SteamPunk, and now DieselPunk? As has been pointed out, we're going to see an evolution here... Maybe in a couple of decades, they'll catch up to a couple of decades ago, and discover "punk". At that point, they'll maybe see that their applying this name to their previously (and frankly nonsensical) fads is idiotic.
posted by Dysk at 8:31 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by Dysk at 8:31 PM on December 14, 2008
Whatever label people want to give it, I think this movie looks pretty cool. Saw the preview a while back via Warren Ellis's site. I mean, come on, it's got Nazis coming from space!
It may be the same villains as the original Star Wars, but damnit, Nazis are the best villains and if this movie is well-made it could be a lot of fun.* I really don't see how this is that different in terms of content from, say, Sky Captain and more deserving of derision based on the idea. Call it what you want, I want to see a movie about Space Nazis.
Now, being from Oregon, I just want to put forth hydroelectricpunk. Goggles paired with the power of rivers!
*Is it sad that I noted, aside from having sidecar motorcycles on the moon, the nazi was driving on the wrong side of the road? As far as I recall, Hitler made many European countries change from left to right-side traffic systems. There goes the commitment to accuracy.
posted by Muttoneer at 8:38 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
It may be the same villains as the original Star Wars, but damnit, Nazis are the best villains and if this movie is well-made it could be a lot of fun.* I really don't see how this is that different in terms of content from, say, Sky Captain and more deserving of derision based on the idea. Call it what you want, I want to see a movie about Space Nazis.
Now, being from Oregon, I just want to put forth hydroelectricpunk. Goggles paired with the power of rivers!
*Is it sad that I noted, aside from having sidecar motorcycles on the moon, the nazi was driving on the wrong side of the road? As far as I recall, Hitler made many European countries change from left to right-side traffic systems. There goes the commitment to accuracy.
posted by Muttoneer at 8:38 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't think programmers would make up a large percentage of people who would follow and support [steam|diesel|etc]punk. If you build and work with large, complicated systems, you're less likely to be the type to be mesmerized by systems built on other technologies. The fetishization of futuristic or anachronistic technology is driven by people who understand neither.
posted by tylermoody at 8:41 PM on December 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by tylermoody at 8:41 PM on December 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry, why is it that the haters all come out of the woodwork on threads that mention Steampunk? This thread concerns CGI MOON NAZIS. Period. It'll probably be rad, and at the very least, really fun to watch when with your friends when you're high.
How is no one else thinking that this will be the best extended video game cutscene of all time?
posted by andromache at 9:11 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
How is no one else thinking that this will be the best extended video game cutscene of all time?
posted by andromache at 9:11 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
You want space-Nazis? I got your space-Nazis right here.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2008
Stonepunk did it first with Flintstones technology
posted by jfrancis at 9:33 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jfrancis at 9:33 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
This facile over-analysis seems awfully punk-modern.
For many people, it's an aesthetic which is a reaction to a shiny, over-polished future that looks like an Apple iProduct. This isn't a new observation, by any means; but I think we should celebrate the good that comes out of it, while catcalling the sewing-machine-with-brass-brick-brack-bodge-on crap. (I think cory, make, et. al. punked us there, but no one called them on it.)
I'm waiting for lol-punk myself; "I can haz steam-powred Death-bot?" and all that.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
For many people, it's an aesthetic which is a reaction to a shiny, over-polished future that looks like an Apple iProduct. This isn't a new observation, by any means; but I think we should celebrate the good that comes out of it, while catcalling the sewing-machine-with-brass-brick-brack-bodge-on crap. (I think cory, make, et. al. punked us there, but no one called them on it.)
I'm waiting for lol-punk myself; "I can haz steam-powred Death-bot?" and all that.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:39 PM on December 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
Hehheheheh. LOLpunk. INVISIBLE STEAM-POWERED AIRSHIP WIF BRONZE AND LEATHER AX-CENTS. (i maded u sum goggles but i etsy'd them.)
posted by katillathehun at 11:14 PM on December 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 11:14 PM on December 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
This is all very well, but I read no mention of characters on the website!
posted by niccolo at 11:29 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by niccolo at 11:29 PM on December 14, 2008
Too many beans can result in a steamplunk.
posted by pantsonfire at 11:42 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by pantsonfire at 11:42 PM on December 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
So some guys in Finland are creating a kind of open source CG scifi-comedy feature length film and the trailer looks really good? Sorry haters.
posted by gwint at 11:59 PM on December 14, 2008
posted by gwint at 11:59 PM on December 14, 2008
further afield, combine energy source + musical genre =
Nukewave? Greenmo? CoalCabaret? OilOrganum? SolarSpeedcore?
Electric guitar.
posted by vbfg at 12:07 AM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Nukewave? Greenmo? CoalCabaret? OilOrganum? SolarSpeedcore?
Electric guitar.
posted by vbfg at 12:07 AM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Ok, so I wanted to mock this, but a great number of those images in the second link are pretty. But they already have names. Art Deco. Streamlined Moderne. Raygun Gothic if you go into space with it. But look, it's Diesel Punk because they made it all gritty. No, you just forgot to wash your Art Deco building or your Streamlined Moderne vehicle.
Ok, so I did mock it. There's no reason to invent a new name. Almost all of these concepts already have well defined movements behind them. I think the only thing that is new in that is the oil-powered giant mecha, which honestly, I can do without.
At this rate it will only be a few years until someone invents "Punk-Punk" And then the world will explode.
posted by Hactar at 12:26 AM on December 15, 2008
Ok, so I did mock it. There's no reason to invent a new name. Almost all of these concepts already have well defined movements behind them. I think the only thing that is new in that is the oil-powered giant mecha, which honestly, I can do without.
At this rate it will only be a few years until someone invents "Punk-Punk" And then the world will explode.
posted by Hactar at 12:26 AM on December 15, 2008
What is so punk about steampunk anyway?
Nothing. That's not how the name came about. It's a sort of offshoot of the cyperpunk subgenre of science fiction. Cyberpunk (NEUROMANCER, BURNING CHROME, ISLANDS IN THE NET, etc) does have a punk aesthetic with alienated outsiders in a dystopian setting. Sterling and Gibson, the two biggest names in cyberpunk, wrote THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE which is probably the best known example of a steampunk novel, although it wasn't called that at the time.
The name steampunk itself was coined by K.W. Jeter who was looking for a name for books like THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE and just swapped "steam" for "cyber" even though steampunk doesn't necessarily deal with dystopic societies and alienated outsiders the way cyberpunk did.
So the "punk" thing is just a sort of historical relic in exactly the same way that the -gate suffix gets attached to every political scandal now even though it doesn't make a lick of sense. Troopergate, Monicagate, etc. gate=punk.
posted by Justinian at 1:34 AM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
Nothing. That's not how the name came about. It's a sort of offshoot of the cyperpunk subgenre of science fiction. Cyberpunk (NEUROMANCER, BURNING CHROME, ISLANDS IN THE NET, etc) does have a punk aesthetic with alienated outsiders in a dystopian setting. Sterling and Gibson, the two biggest names in cyberpunk, wrote THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE which is probably the best known example of a steampunk novel, although it wasn't called that at the time.
The name steampunk itself was coined by K.W. Jeter who was looking for a name for books like THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE and just swapped "steam" for "cyber" even though steampunk doesn't necessarily deal with dystopic societies and alienated outsiders the way cyberpunk did.
So the "punk" thing is just a sort of historical relic in exactly the same way that the -gate suffix gets attached to every political scandal now even though it doesn't make a lick of sense. Troopergate, Monicagate, etc. gate=punk.
posted by Justinian at 1:34 AM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
gatepunk = science fiction tales of political scandals
punkgate = scandals in the genre fiction industry
posted by cytherea at 2:02 AM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
punkgate = scandals in the genre fiction industry
posted by cytherea at 2:02 AM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
gatepunk = science fiction tales of political scandals
So we see Bruce Sterling at the forefront of a third -punk genre? His DISTRACTION obviously being the grandfather of gatepunk.
posted by Justinian at 2:05 AM on December 15, 2008
So we see Bruce Sterling at the forefront of a third -punk genre? His DISTRACTION obviously being the grandfather of gatepunk.
posted by Justinian at 2:05 AM on December 15, 2008
Dieselpunk's Not Dead!
(Though 'Nazis on the moon' automatically rocks, see also 'zombie Nazis')
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:32 AM on December 15, 2008
(Though 'Nazis on the moon' automatically rocks, see also 'zombie Nazis')
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:32 AM on December 15, 2008
> I want to do a Noir-ish film set in a Dr. Seuss inspired universe and call it GeiselPunk.
Here at the port now, just look at the sky!
It's a color--the sort that can make a man cry--
Like the awful gray static that muzzles your head
On a TV that's tuned to a channel that's dead.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:37 AM on December 15, 2008 [21 favorites]
Here at the port now, just look at the sky!
It's a color--the sort that can make a man cry--
Like the awful gray static that muzzles your head
On a TV that's tuned to a channel that's dead.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:37 AM on December 15, 2008 [21 favorites]
Cyberpunk was an amalgam of cybernetics and punk, both of which were terribly old hat by the time the term was coined in the early '80s. Cyberpunk was not a positive term for a well loved SF subgenre - it was a slur. The problem was that it sounded =awesome= to adolescents who were buying up Gibson and Stephenson novels, so the name stuck.
The genre we now know as Steampunk gained definition (if not shape) from the work of William Gibson (and Sterling) in the Difference Engine, and since he also gave definition (if not shape) to the Cyberpunk genre, the term Steampunk was coined, mostly by book reviewers trying to sound clever.
What the lesser lights of SF fandom are calling diesel punk has been around since the 80's, popularized here in the US by Antarctic Press' "1946" comic book titles, which mostly centered around the wackiest and visionary airplane and vehicle designs from the Axis, and envisioning them used in battle to alter the course of the war. (In Japan, the genre has always been popular with right-wingers who can't seem to cope with Japan's defeat, and like to imagine WWI re-fought with fantastical planes and super-ships.)
I think it's down to a rediscovery of the "Air Adventure" genre popular back in the 30's - which are usually rollicking good reads. Sky Captain was a weak stab at reviving it, Porco Rosso was a genius masterwork that was too weird to revive it, so here we go again with Iron Sky.
So I, a pseudonymous nobody on an internet chat forum, hereby declare this genre aeropunk. Which is about as much gravitas needed to steal it away from dieselpunk.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:59 AM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
The genre we now know as Steampunk gained definition (if not shape) from the work of William Gibson (and Sterling) in the Difference Engine, and since he also gave definition (if not shape) to the Cyberpunk genre, the term Steampunk was coined, mostly by book reviewers trying to sound clever.
What the lesser lights of SF fandom are calling diesel punk has been around since the 80's, popularized here in the US by Antarctic Press' "1946" comic book titles, which mostly centered around the wackiest and visionary airplane and vehicle designs from the Axis, and envisioning them used in battle to alter the course of the war. (In Japan, the genre has always been popular with right-wingers who can't seem to cope with Japan's defeat, and like to imagine WWI re-fought with fantastical planes and super-ships.)
I think it's down to a rediscovery of the "Air Adventure" genre popular back in the 30's - which are usually rollicking good reads. Sky Captain was a weak stab at reviving it, Porco Rosso was a genius masterwork that was too weird to revive it, so here we go again with Iron Sky.
So I, a pseudonymous nobody on an internet chat forum, hereby declare this genre aeropunk. Which is about as much gravitas needed to steal it away from dieselpunk.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:59 AM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
** polishes his monocle in anticipation of plutocratpunk
posted by electroboy at 6:56 AM on December 15, 2008
posted by electroboy at 6:56 AM on December 15, 2008
iron sky looks like sky captain: beyond the world of tomorrow, and that's alright by me, it is a good age for hokey hocum.
i also look forward to the day that i begin turning in my reanimation capsule because all the cool kids are now creaming their pants to wi-fi-punk
posted by doobiedoo at 7:19 AM on December 15, 2008
i also look forward to the day that i begin turning in my reanimation capsule because all the cool kids are now creaming their pants to wi-fi-punk
posted by doobiedoo at 7:19 AM on December 15, 2008
I'm sure that Cory Doctorow will be excited about this new opportunity to be annoying.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:27 AM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Afroblanco at 7:27 AM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]
Doublepunk! I know it's been on here before, I can't seem to find the post though.
posted by cashman at 7:29 AM on December 15, 2008
posted by cashman at 7:29 AM on December 15, 2008
I always find the pop-culture appropriation of Nazi symbols, imagery and aesthetics unsettling and unfortunate.
I dunno, I think the recycling of Nazis as generic enemies is just testament to the fact that we'd really like to kick the their asses again. They were just such a good enemy. Not morally ambiguous like the current crop of enemies from failed states and petrostates.
NAZIS EVIL, WE KILL THEM, THEY DIE is just so much more attractive than HEY GUYS WE REALLY NEED TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS AND REGIONAL CONFLICTS INVOLVED IN THESE FORMER COLONIAL STATES THAT DON'T HAVE STRONG LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENTS.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:37 AM on December 15, 2008 [9 favorites]
I dunno, I think the recycling of Nazis as generic enemies is just testament to the fact that we'd really like to kick the their asses again. They were just such a good enemy. Not morally ambiguous like the current crop of enemies from failed states and petrostates.
NAZIS EVIL, WE KILL THEM, THEY DIE is just so much more attractive than HEY GUYS WE REALLY NEED TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS AND REGIONAL CONFLICTS INVOLVED IN THESE FORMER COLONIAL STATES THAT DON'T HAVE STRONG LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENTS.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:37 AM on December 15, 2008 [9 favorites]
Well, if things keep going the way they are, maybe we'll be able to hate the Russians again.
posted by electroboy at 7:47 AM on December 15, 2008
posted by electroboy at 7:47 AM on December 15, 2008
I knew this seemed familiar to me. Charlie Stross did Nazis on the moon in The Atrocity Archive.
posted by reptile at 9:10 AM on December 15, 2008
posted by reptile at 9:10 AM on December 15, 2008
Charlie Stross did Nazis on the moon in The Atrocity Archive.
Mostly, if I recall correctly, he did dead and frozen Nazis on the moon, which was kind of disappointing.
posted by erdferkel at 9:23 AM on December 15, 2008
Mostly, if I recall correctly, he did dead and frozen Nazis on the moon, which was kind of disappointing.
posted by erdferkel at 9:23 AM on December 15, 2008
At least with steampunk the name makes a little sense: an offshoot of cyberpunk, or whatever. And it's mostly just recycling the aesthetics of the 1800s when steam power ruled in an interesting way. But these deisepunk designs are recycling designs from the current technological era, at least in terms of big industrial "things". I mean, we still have tons and tons of diesel powered stuff.
It might be a little more respectable if they called it "deco-punk" of "bauhaus-punk" or something. (By the way, is there a good name for the designs of the late 40s/50s?).
By the way, there's a bit of misinformation in this thread about the orgins of the word "Cyberpunk". It was coined by an author, not reviewers. I don't think it was really a slur (although who knows, maybe some people didn't like it)
posted by delmoi at 9:53 AM on December 15, 2008
It might be a little more respectable if they called it "deco-punk" of "bauhaus-punk" or something. (By the way, is there a good name for the designs of the late 40s/50s?).
By the way, there's a bit of misinformation in this thread about the orgins of the word "Cyberpunk". It was coined by an author, not reviewers. I don't think it was really a slur (although who knows, maybe some people didn't like it)
posted by delmoi at 9:53 AM on December 15, 2008
Charlie Stross did Nazis on the moon in The Atrocity Archive.
So did Heinlein.
posted by electroboy at 10:01 AM on December 15, 2008
So did Heinlein.
posted by electroboy at 10:01 AM on December 15, 2008
Weird, that was supposed to be a link, not bold. Here we go... *ahem*
So did Heinlein.
posted by electroboy at 10:07 AM on December 15, 2008
So did Heinlein.
posted by electroboy at 10:07 AM on December 15, 2008
Plus, a lot of the stuff diesel punk is borrowing from is art-deco, which was more of an international movement, not just focusing on the Nazis (look at the Chrystler building!).
I'm speaking specifically about using Nazi imagery such as the reverse swastika in an unreflective non-ironic way, rather than Bauhaus or art deco.
The use of Nazi imagery in pop culture should not be taken lightly. If you think I am overreacting, I would urge you to listen to a radio broadcast of Holocaust Memorial Day, usually in late January or early February. There is a siren of some sort that marks the end of the ceremony. The sound of the siren or klaxon resembles something close to a wail of anguish, close to a scream of terror. That siren is the most terrible thing I have ever heard, and is the reason why Nazi kitsch like this or the "Downfall" remixes really, really disturb me.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:45 AM on December 15, 2008
I'm speaking specifically about using Nazi imagery such as the reverse swastika in an unreflective non-ironic way, rather than Bauhaus or art deco.
The use of Nazi imagery in pop culture should not be taken lightly. If you think I am overreacting, I would urge you to listen to a radio broadcast of Holocaust Memorial Day, usually in late January or early February. There is a siren of some sort that marks the end of the ceremony. The sound of the siren or klaxon resembles something close to a wail of anguish, close to a scream of terror. That siren is the most terrible thing I have ever heard, and is the reason why Nazi kitsch like this or the "Downfall" remixes really, really disturb me.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:45 AM on December 15, 2008
HamsterPunk. Seriously. If I ever get two minutes to myself again, I'm writing a dystopian future techno-punk masterpiece where everything is powered by hamster wheels. It will be very, very dark, gothic, noirish, deco, and punk, and very, very CYOOT!!! SQUEE!!!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:18 AM on December 15, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:18 AM on December 15, 2008
I prefer Dirndlpunk.
Mein Gott, die schönen Damen haben gebunden meine Unterwäsche in einen Knoten!
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:28 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Mein Gott, die schönen Damen haben gebunden meine Unterwäsche in einen Knoten!
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:28 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
At this rate it will only be a few years until someone invents "Punk-Punk" And then the world will explode.
I was just thinking of that - cyborg G.G. Allin, tearassing across the blighted urban landscape in a giant punkmech fueled by bourbon, spraying feces out of hoses at all ends. Really REALLY big safety pin shoved right through the head of the bot. Everyone else pretending it doesn't exist, because they know Punkpunk actually died 12 years earlier, and any evidence to the contrary has already been done better by someone else you haven't heard of.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:09 PM on December 15, 2008
I was just thinking of that - cyborg G.G. Allin, tearassing across the blighted urban landscape in a giant punkmech fueled by bourbon, spraying feces out of hoses at all ends. Really REALLY big safety pin shoved right through the head of the bot. Everyone else pretending it doesn't exist, because they know Punkpunk actually died 12 years earlier, and any evidence to the contrary has already been done better by someone else you haven't heard of.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:09 PM on December 15, 2008
It's Raining Florence Henderson: I fear The Kids Next Door have you beat on that score - their 2x4 technology is largely hamster-powered.
posted by bouvin at 2:13 PM on December 15, 2008
posted by bouvin at 2:13 PM on December 15, 2008
As if 'punk' or 'hippie' have some deeper transcendent significance that can be bastardized anyway. People that were teenagers in the 60s and 70s are so fucking full of themselves.
Teenagers and young adults of today are better than you were, and it's not because of you. They are intellectually, morally, creatively, and politically superior to you as a teenager. You should feel grateful when they borrow, mangle, and otherwise abuse your meaningless sub-cultural flotsam as they mesh it with their own.
posted by dgaicun at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2008
Teenagers and young adults of today are better than you were, and it's not because of you. They are intellectually, morally, creatively, and politically superior to you as a teenager. You should feel grateful when they borrow, mangle, and otherwise abuse your meaningless sub-cultural flotsam as they mesh it with their own.
posted by dgaicun at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2008
There's a lot of crazy in this thread.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:26 PM on December 15, 2008
posted by stinkycheese at 9:26 PM on December 15, 2008
Wait mutoneer! I already had plans for the hydroelectricpunk goggles. Here is prior art: hydroelectricpunkgoogles
posted by dirty lies at 10:57 PM on December 15, 2008
posted by dirty lies at 10:57 PM on December 15, 2008
In college I was in a sketch comedy troupe, in which we wrote a sketch about writing a sketch (very meta!) whose punchline was "Hitler! on the moon! ... It's funny!"
You had to be there.
posted by LilBucner at 7:15 AM on December 16, 2008
You had to be there.
posted by LilBucner at 7:15 AM on December 16, 2008
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