You know who else got shot down at the bakery?
December 15, 2008 12:41 PM   Subscribe

"We believe the request ... to inscribe a birthday wish to Adolf Hitler is inappropriate," said Karen Meleta, a ShopRite bakery spokeswoman. Bottom line: Adolf Hitler Campbell, who turns 3 today, is not going to get the cake of his (and my) dreams.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders (271 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite

 
"ShopRite can't even make a cake for a 3-year-old," said Deborah Campbell, 25, who is Heath's wife of three years and the mother of the children. "That's sad."

Yeah, ShopRite must really hate children. That's it.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2008 [18 favorites]


Those poor, poor kids. My God.
posted by ORthey at 12:45 PM on December 15, 2008


My heart goes out to those poor kids.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:45 PM on December 15, 2008


If they think this is rough, wait until he gets to public school.
posted by hermitosis at 12:46 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Don't miss the comments:

I am on shop Rite side!!!!! This poor angel has to carry a horrible name of a man that was so "EVIL"!!

posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:46 PM on December 15, 2008


Let them eat KKK.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:46 PM on December 15, 2008 [123 favorites]


You know who else didn't get a birthday cake?

Oh, wait.
posted by An Infinity Of Monkeys at 12:46 PM on December 15, 2008 [25 favorites]


Yes, Lehigh Valley, of course.
posted by The Straightener at 12:47 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Occasionally, we are presented with truly outstanding examples of the kind of people who damn near everyone thinks should never be parenting children of any age.
posted by scrump at 12:47 PM on December 15, 2008 [13 favorites]


Once again the best part of the story is the comments. Also: It goes Philadelphia, Pennsyltucky, Pittsburgh.
posted by fixedgear at 12:47 PM on December 15, 2008


For fucks sake make the damn cake. The three year old has no part in this.
posted by Sailormom at 12:48 PM on December 15, 2008


If they're pissed about the cake, wait until they go to pick up the birthday piñata!
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 12:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


MEIN FUHRER! I CAN TODDLE!
posted by Ron Thanagar at 12:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [25 favorites]


Dear Mr and Ms Cambell,

You are fuckwits. We suggest you get used to the idea that the clever "prank name" for your children will make you a laughing stock everywhere you go, not just ShopRite. So don't bother pretending to be all surprised over it. You wanted to give your kids a name that would ensure they get beat up through out childhood, so we think being upset over a cake is silly.

Not getting a cake is the least of their worries.

Yours,
Everyone
posted by aapep at 12:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [9 favorites]


Poor kids? April 20th, the ultimate dope smoker's day, is overshadowed every year by Hitler's birthday.
posted by gman at 12:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Somewhat debatable, I think, whether getting a ShopRite cake for your birthday not be worse than being named Adolf Hitler Campbell in the first place.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


People like this give Nazis a bad name.
posted by Floydd at 12:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


It goes Philadelphia, Pennsyltucky, Pittsburgh

if you look at the photo gallery of the nazi's home (the photo gallery!) it's pretty clear these babies were born and named in Jersey. Ignorance respects no political borders.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:50 PM on December 15, 2008


Shame on you all. "REAL" issues maybe garner 1-6 responses tops before the article vanishes to obscurity. You cry about them milking the system? You at the trash floating round Easton and Allentown....they can work too....oh yeah....they're oppressed and discriminated against.....funny how the the libs switch sides when a White person is on the dole.

Apparently there's now a liberal/conservative divide over naming your kid Hitler or not. Who knew?
posted by TungstenChef at 12:51 PM on December 15, 2008


I noticed the kid is wearing a Spiderman shirt. Would that be the same Spiderman that was created by Stan Lee? Stan Lee, of Jewish descent? Stan Lee, who was quoted as saying the following:

In an interview, Spider-Man creator Stan Lee (Lieber) commented on the role of Jewish values in his work: "To me you can wrap all of Judaism up in one sentence, and that is, 'Do not do unto others...' All I tried to do in my stories was show that there's some innate goodness in the human condition. And there's always going to be evil. We should always be fighting evil."

Okay, just checking.
posted by brandman at 12:51 PM on December 15, 2008 [17 favorites]


Not all child abuse leave bruises.
posted by oddman at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2008 [15 favorites]


Historical names aside, the other two are named JoyceLynn and Honszlynn. That's probably a league worse than being named "Adolf Hitler."
posted by Electrius at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


Is Prussian Blue doing birthday parties?
posted by The Straightener at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2008 [7 favorites]


I want to see the party invitations.
posted by Keith Talent at 12:56 PM on December 15, 2008


I wonder if a tranquilizer dart gun can be retrofitted to dispense chemical sterilization.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:56 PM on December 15, 2008


People like this give Nazis a bad name bad Nazi names.
posted by Riki tiki at 12:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [30 favorites]


Not mine, dammit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:58 PM on December 15, 2008


Abusive parenting aside, Shoprite should have just made the damn cake. It's for a three year old with an unfortunate name, not a mass-murdering fascist.
posted by arcticwoman at 12:58 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Equally stupid? the comment that proclaims that free speech means the store (a private company) is obliged to print whatever they are handed...
posted by Postroad at 1:00 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


This is why we call it Pennsyltucky 'round these parts

Hey fuck you guys!
posted by Roman Graves at 1:01 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


On Hitler's birth certificate, the father is listed as Isadore. Hitler's dad killed comedy.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:01 PM on December 15, 2008


Some of my relatives would also have a problem with the kids' last name.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:01 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


I was all ready to say the store should go ahead and make the cake (after all it's not the kid's fault) and then I ran across this in the comments:

"This cake was ordered for the child's first birthday, not his recent 3rd, (2) they wanted SWASTIKAS on the cake, not something you put on a first year's birthday cake. (3) they wanted it FREE and (4) when offered a compromise, they refused.

Still, you have to feel bad for the kids.
posted by DaddyNewt at 1:01 PM on December 15, 2008


I never thought I'd get to recycle this comment, but that's humanity for ya.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:02 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


/:-=(
posted by fleetmouse at 1:02 PM on December 15, 2008 [29 favorites]


I noticed the kid is wearing a Spiderman shirt. Would that be the same Spiderman that was created by Stan Lee? Stan Lee, of Jewish descent?

Yes, and also the same Stan Lee who insisted that the character's name was properly punctuated as "Spider-Man," because he wasn't an accountant named Irving Spiderman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on December 15, 2008 [9 favorites]


I wonder if a tranquilizer dart gun can be retrofitted to dispense chemical sterilization.

Um. In a thread about Nazis, to boot. Um.
posted by The World Famous at 1:04 PM on December 15, 2008


Um. In a thread about Nazis, to boot. Um.

In National Socialist Lehigh Valley, joke misses you.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 1:07 PM on December 15, 2008 [8 favorites]


It's sad to see a little kid punished for his parents' hobby.

Their hobby of race-hatred and glorifying genocide.

Of course, I blame the Joos.
posted by orthogonality at 1:09 PM on December 15, 2008


In a thread about Nazis, to boot.

In a thread about Nazis: Das Boot.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:09 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


I thought the kicker was the caption beneath the Omen-like photo of the kid: "Young Adolf Hitler Campbell will be getting a cake from Wal-Mart this year."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:09 PM on December 15, 2008 [13 favorites]


In the words of James Carville: "Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between."
posted by horsemuth at 1:11 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


Q: Can YOU spot the pewter figurine in this story?

˙sɐǝpı pɐq sɐɥ oɥʍ uɐɯ ǝɥʇ puıɥǝq ʇsnɾ 'ɥdɐɹƃoʇoɥd ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝpıs puɐɥ-ʇɥƃıɹ ǝɥʇ uo ɟןǝɥs ǝɥʇ uo :ɐ
posted by Greg Nog at 1:12 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


Giving kids names like that. What the fuck is wrong with people? Might as well name them "White Trash For Life" and "Repeat Felon."

Fuckers. Why did I have to read this? Now I'm pissed off and it's only midafternoon.
posted by Afroblanco at 1:12 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Giving kids names like that. What the fuck is wrong with people? Might as well name them "White Trash For Life" and "Repeat Felon."

I think "K-Fed" has a nice ring to it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


I'm trying to imagine a future for a kid named Adolf Hitler that doesn't involve at least one of (a) running away from home to sleep under a bridge in the early teens and (b) killing one or both parents. Unfortunately the only (c) I can come up with is growing up to be just like them.

The snarky Internet kid in me is rooting for (b), of course. And maybe a side order of (d), nonfatally assaulting (but scaring the living crap out of) the nitwits in the comments who think that birthday cakes have as strong an argument for being a human right as health care does. But none of the possibilities is really anything like good.

Derail: Does anyone here even remember their cake from when they were three? I recall the one from when I turned four, but only with photographic assistance.
posted by eritain at 1:13 PM on December 15, 2008


I wonder what would happen if little Adolph grew up to be gay, intelligent, sensitive, and really interested in, say, 18th century Portuguese literature - so much so that he desired a teaching position at a reputable academic institution. Would Adolph hide his heritage, like the protagonist of "The Human Stain," passing as a respectable young man from a non-existent family, or would he turn his peculiar upbringing into an asset, a curiosity? The learned man who escaped from the clutches of hate, a refugee from the Aryan Nation?

Actually, letting this little thought experiment unravel further, I'm pretty sure that if little Adolph grew up to be intelligent, gay, and sensitive, he's much more likely to shotgun Heath and Deborah back to Berlin in a fit of adolescent rage.
posted by billysumday at 1:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


There's high irony in the fact that most modern-day self-proclaimed Nazis are such losers, they'd probably be judged unfit to reproduce and sterilized by actual Nazis, should they get their way and bring back the Third Reich.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


Yes, and also the same Stan Lee who insisted that the character's name was properly punctuated as "Spider-Man," because he wasn't an accountant named Irving Spiderman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on December 15


I made this joke once only to be told that the joke had already been popularized on the sitcom "Friends." Now we are shame-brothers.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:14 PM on December 15, 2008 [11 favorites]


Something about being born in the ghetto but not having the ghetto born in you comes to mind. What kind of parent saddles their child with that name? Poor kid.
posted by Rashomon at 1:18 PM on December 15, 2008


ALternatively they could just put "Adolf Campbell" on the cake, or would that miss the point of being collosal showoff racist weirdos?
posted by Artw at 1:19 PM on December 15, 2008 [16 favorites]


Yes, Lehigh Valley, of course.

The only people I knew from there were collegekid potheads who were way more occupied with changing signs to say "Behigh" than pumping out kids and naming them after fascists.
posted by piratebowling at 1:20 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


White Trite Pride
posted by porn in the woods at 1:20 PM on December 15, 2008


That doesn't look like Spider-Man to me.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:20 PM on December 15, 2008


duuude my last comment was at 4:20!
posted by piratebowling at 1:20 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


I know a guy whose wife's one kid is named Aryan. The wife is nuts. Kid's a little dickhead, too.
posted by notsnot at 1:23 PM on December 15, 2008


Still, you have to feel bad for the kids.

Yeah. Some people should be sterilised.

There's high irony in the fact that most modern-day self-proclaimed Nazis are such losers, they'd probably be judged unfit to reproduce and sterilized by actual Nazis, should they get their way and bring back the Third Reich.


Most of the original Nazis weren't exactly models for the ubermensch, you know.
posted by rodgerd at 1:25 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


They must have a really hard time finding keychains with these kids' names on them at Six Flags.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:25 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


I know a guy whose wife's one kid is named Aryan. The wife is nuts. Kid's a little dickhead, too.

Wow, what better way to say "No thanks, don't want any friends!" than to name your kid Aryan.
posted by billysumday at 1:25 PM on December 15, 2008


I couldn't tell what the pewter was, but I like the sad puppy-dog statuette and Snoopy amidst their other keepsakes, and the fact that they keep their Nazi skull next to their soup.

If Spiderman is a threat to their nordic son, what of the Japanese-made robot he's sporting in the other picture? I'm pretty sure that's the peace-nik Optimus Prime, not the one-time foe of Spider-Man.

And I can't help but wonder what job you can get with a swastika on your hand. Does he wear gloves at work?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:26 PM on December 15, 2008


Well, to be kinda fair, the kid was named by the wife's ex-husband, who I'm pretty sure is in jail. Not real sure why they don't change his name now, though.
posted by notsnot at 1:28 PM on December 15, 2008


No, it looks like they live in Hunterdon County, NJ. My mistake. The kids were born there, and Holland Twp is in Hunterdon County. The supermarket is in Warren County which borders Hunterdon County. I always thought of it as sort of bucolic and country-ish.
posted by fixedgear at 1:29 PM on December 15, 2008


What is the world coming to when a kid named Adolph Hitler can't have cake?

Seriously. Every part of that sentence has something really, really wrong with it. What the fuck, world?
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:29 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


I can't help but wonder what job you can get with a swastika on your hand.

I'm going to have to go with HVAC technician.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:29 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


And I can't help but wonder what job you can get with a swastika on your hand. Does he wear gloves at work?

According to this article, both of these members of the master race are on disability.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:32 PM on December 15, 2008 [27 favorites]


What's funny on his hand-swastika is that it's backwards from the usual Nazi form. What a dickweed.
posted by notsnot at 1:32 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Stunning. Those poor kids. If their names are changed, they'll be targets of taunting and ridicule for years. Great parenting!
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on December 15, 2008


*aren't changed*
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on December 15, 2008


What's really going on here, is that these parents wear their hatred and racism as way to accomplish 2 very opposite things: it intimidates others, while still allowing them to claim victim status. It is their oppressive nature that is being oppressed.

And that is such a shitball of irony and cognitive dissonance that I've got grey matter dripping out of my ear onto my keyboard.
posted by butterstick at 1:34 PM on December 15, 2008 [13 favorites]


What's funny on his hand-swastika is that it's backwards from the usual Nazi form.
"Huh. Looks O.K. in the mirror...."
posted by Floydd at 1:35 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


For all of you knocking Pennsylvania: Holland Township is very much a part of New Jersey. I spent my gradeschool and highschool years there, and you'll be happy to know that these wannabe Nazis stand out there just as much as they would in your little hometown.
posted by tylermoody at 1:35 PM on December 15, 2008


I can't wait to see those kids rebel against their parents.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:38 PM on December 15, 2008


Heath Campbell said some people like the names but others are shocked to hear them. "They say, 'He (Hitler) killed all those people.' I say, 'You're living in the wrong decade. That Hitler's gone,'" he said.

Oh, I'm sorry I failed to realize your son was named for ANOTHER Adolf Hitler.
posted by piratebowling at 1:39 PM on December 15, 2008 [12 favorites]


I know a guy whose wife's one kid is named Aryan.

I went to high school with a guy named Erian (pronounced Aryan). He was half-black and half-white, and recognizably so, so there was no racist intent. I'm sure he had to correct other people's spelling of his name every. single. time.
posted by desjardins at 1:40 PM on December 15, 2008


April 20th, the ultimate dope smoker's day, is overshadowed every year by Hitler's birthday.

Yin and yang, dude.
posted by rokusan at 1:41 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


What's funny on his hand-swastika is that it's backwards from the usual Nazi form.

Maybe he's Hindu?
posted by desjardins at 1:42 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


"By the time they get to school, they will already have been damaged," Gordon [clinical psychologist] said. "Any parent that would impose such horrific names on their children is mentally ill, and they would be affecting their children from the day they were born. Only a crazy person would do that."

The problems the children might encounter in school, he said, "would be icing on the cake."


Oh, I see what you did there.

Done, I swear
posted by piratebowling at 1:42 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


We've got an old saying around here, get used to it, Hitler.
posted by yellowbinder at 1:42 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


Whew! For a second I thought this was another of those wacky "only in Michigan" stories! You go, PA!
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:45 PM on December 15, 2008


I believe the naming of these children was a thread back on MeFi when they were born.
posted by Manhasset at 1:46 PM on December 15, 2008


According to this article, both of these members of the master race are on disability.

From that article:
“The Campbells said they wanted their children to have unique names and didn't expect the names to cause problems. Despite the cake refusal, the Campbells said they don't expect the names to cause problems later, such as when the children start school.

‘I just figured that they're just names,’ Deborah Campbell said. ‘They're just kids. They're not going to hurt anybody.’

Heath Campbell said some people like the names but others are shocked to hear them. ‘They say, 'He (Hitler) killed all those people.' I say, 'You're living in the wrong decade. That Hitler's gone,’ he said.

‘They're just names, you know,’ he said. ‘Yeah, they (Nazis) were bad people back then. But my kids are little. They're not going to grow up like that.’

‘Other kids get their cake. I get a hard time,’ he said. ‘It's not fair to my children.

‘How can a name be offensive?’ he asked.

'Why not call the kid Peace?'

Robert M. Gordon, a clinical psychologist in Allentown, said the names would hurt the children.

‘Certainly society is going to be hostile towards those kids, especially when they go to school,’ Gordon said.

More than that, he said, the children would be harmed by their parents' views.

‘By the time they get to school, they will already have been damaged,’ Gordon said. ‘Any parent that would impose such horrific names on their children is mentally ill, and they would be affecting their children from the day they were born. Only a crazy person would do that.’

The problems the children might encounter in school, he said, ‘would be icing on the cake.’” [emphasis mine]
Idiot parents!
posted by ericb at 1:47 PM on December 15, 2008


Awesome tags!
posted by Manhasset at 1:48 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Thank God that these children aren't raised by a homosexual couple. Clearly, the sanctity of heterosexual marriage will keep these children from being royally screwed up.
posted by JimmyJames at 1:48 PM on December 15, 2008 [34 favorites]


What's funny on his hand-swastika is that it's backwards from the usual Nazi form.

True, but when he does his little Señor Wences-style white-power puppet shows in the mirror, it faces the right way.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


I love how everyone is investing this name with magical powers. The kid will get beat up over his name? Kids get beat up because of their names no matter what their names are. How many people are named Dick?

What if it played out that the kid himself turned into a bully? Then we'd hear stories about a kid named Adolf Hitler terrorizing his school. Then everyone would wring their hands over this kid, as if his name elevates his pedestrian schoolyard shenanigans to the level of some greater threat. So really, the name focuses the attention on this kid as if he is something special.

someone asked upthread what if he grows up to be gay, then will you all talk about how this guy rehabilitated the name through personal courage, etc.? What if he cures cancer? Then the story will be "Adolf Hilter Cures Cancer." "Adolf Hilter Scores Winning Touchdown," "Adolf Hitler Voted Best Sump Pump Repairman Three Years Running." It's a name, grow the hell up.

Because everyone is so focused on the name, the kid himself is treated as special, regardless of whether he's good or bad. You are investing the name with power, and as a result you invest the kid with power.

In reality, it's just a name. Are his parents idiots? Yes. But your parents are idiots too--I read AskMe.

So to Shop-Rite, let the family have their stupid birthday cake and mind your fucking business. Let's just see if you can spell the name correctly.

And to the rest of us, let's stop worrying about whether the dark power of Hitler will vest in some white trash child. Yes, people in this world probably hate you for dumb reasons. And you hate them for dumb reasons. And I hate everyone.

Lawn. You. Exeunt.
posted by Pastabagel at 1:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [10 favorites]


Folks: Not in PA, really, and yes, icing on the cake. Can you fix a broken HVAC system? Didn't think so, let's leave the blue-collar bashing out of it.
posted by fixedgear at 1:51 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


"Huh. Looks O.K. in the mirror...."

Just like scratching a backward "B" on your cheek.
posted by ericb at 1:52 PM on December 15, 2008


Stolen from reddit's "neuromonkey " for the lulz:
"...and could you cook the cake in a Jew-filled oven? Yeah. Jew-filled. Filled with Jews. In the oven, yes."

<click>

"Hello? Hello? What? What did I say? I cannot believe they would deny such a reasonable request."
posted by orthogonality at 1:55 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


Back in my leftist phase, I heard of a father who named his sons Lenin and Stalin.
posted by jason's_planet at 1:55 PM on December 15, 2008


Pastabagel, it's one thing to be understanding about the name but when a parent requests swastikas on the cake for their little 3 year old Hitler, I have no problem with Shop-Rite telling him Fick dich!
posted by JaredSeth at 1:56 PM on December 15, 2008


The swastikas, Heath Campbell said, are symbols of peace and balance. He considers them art.

"It doesn't mean hatred to me," he said. Deborah Campbell said a swastika "doesn't really have a meaning. It's just a symbol."

Heath Campbell said he doesn't want to force his views on his children, in part because he had views forced on him. He said he also teaches them nonviolence.


Anyone else reminded of that KKK character on Reno 911 that claims he's all about peace and brotherhood?
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:59 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


Sadly, this kid will never be able to post on the internet under his real name without the thread shutting down.
posted by drezdn at 2:04 PM on December 15, 2008 [16 favorites]


The odd thing that article mr_roboto linked to is that the parents do seem somewhat post-racist in a really weird and messed up way. They seem to have disconnected the overtly racist and violent ideological aspects of neo-nazism from the superficial iconographical and historical aspects.

It strikes me as similar to people who wave the US flag without buying into the ideals that formed the basis of the country, or evangelicals who are loud advocates of Christianity without actually following any of teachings of their religion. I would have to agree with the guy in the article regardless though, if these people are so disconnected from reality that they can't understand why anyone would have a problem with a kid named Adolf Hitler, they have some sort of mental illness.
posted by burnmp3s at 2:05 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


What kind of parent saddles their child with that name?
Well, there's the kind who are customs agents that marry their first cousins. How come nobody's pissed at that guy?
posted by joaquim at 2:05 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


And I can't help but wonder what job you can get with a swastika on your hand. Does he wear gloves at work?

Judging by the poor kid I used to work with scrubbing public toilets in Walla Walla with "nazi skin" tattooed on his knuckles, it's less limiting than you might think. Of course, he did have to put up with his co-workers constantly muttering "I hate Walla Walla nazis". Other than the tattoos, he seemed a nice enough kid, even to the non-white members of the crew. He was more an object of pity than anything else.
posted by stet at 2:06 PM on December 15, 2008


Because everyone is so focused on the name, the kid himself is treated as special, regardless of whether he's good or bad.

One survey found that a majority of parents believe that a child's name influences their future success or failure. Whether or not such actually occurs it seems that most people are concerned about it.

Have there been any studies to prove/disprove that a person's name has impact on one's personality, development, socialization, etc.?
posted by ericb at 2:06 PM on December 15, 2008


Total aside -- Thank God that these children aren't raised by a homosexual couple. -- JimmyJames.

Eponysterical.
posted by ericb at 2:09 PM on December 15, 2008


What's up with the sister being named "Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell"?

Couldn't they whip up the courage the first time around?

Was it merely a typo? (seems to be corroborated by 'Honszlynn'. What on earth is that?)

Was it stupidity? ("Whaddaya mean, 'Hitler' not 'Hinler' "?)

Or did they mean "Himmler"?

Oh, the mystery...
posted by sour cream at 2:10 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


From one of the articles: "Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell, a girl named for Schutzstaffel head Heinrich Himmler, turns 1 in April. "

Is Hinler some kind of code for Himmler? Was Honzlynn his nick name?

When the kid grows up he should change his name to " MY parents are morons so just call me Bill."
posted by Max Power at 2:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Why is it that the self-proclaimed neonazis usually look like this guy? Not the prison guys...those neonazis are pretty spooky.

But your garden variety, self-tattooing, mullet wearing, neo-nazis...those folks are sort of universally pasty, pinch-faced, malnourished and look like they were skimmed out of the bug trap of the genetic pool.
posted by dejah420 at 2:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


‘They're just names, you know,’ he said. ‘Yeah, they (Nazis) were bad people back then. But my kids are little. They're not going to grow up like that.’

What a load of horse shit. Who names their kids after people they think were bad? Who names their kids the OPPOSITE of what they want them to be?

These people suck, and I'm sad that douchedongles like them still exist. Neo-Nazism is so early 90s anyway.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:14 PM on December 15, 2008


Can you fix a broken HVAC system? Didn't think so, let's leave the blue-collar bashing out of it.
posted by fixedgear


*sigh* I knew somebody would make me explain that joke. It wasn't a blue collar joke at all, fixedgear. I have a blue collar background, myself. It was dark, dark, dark gallows humor. The complete punchline is as follows:

I'm going to have to go with HVAC technician. Hate on the Nazis if you must, but if you have to keep the furnaces running, you'd be a fool not to hire one.

Sorry to anyone offended by my twisted mind. I only laugh because crying doesn't help and they still won't issue me the nuclear codes.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:14 PM on December 15, 2008 [11 favorites]


Kids get beat up because of their names no matter what their names are.

You clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about, Steve or Dave or Mark or whatever the fuck your name is.
posted by Manhasset at 2:15 PM on December 15, 2008


> Have there been any studies to prove/disprove that a person's name has impact on one's personality, development, socialization, etc.?

There was a blog post I read about that a while back. I can't really remember who wrote it (and I'm too lazy to go searching), but I'm pretty sure it would have been Malcolm Gladwell, the Freakonomics or the Dilbert blog. Basically the premise was that the first letter of a person's name could sometimes/often be connected to some major part of their lives. I'm afraid that's really all I remember. I'm pretty sure there wasn't anything hard and solid like "name dictates future", but still. Oh, and I think there's a story (again, either in one of Gladwell's books or Freakonomics (the book this time)) about a man who named one son Winner and the other Loser, the former becoming somewhat of a career criminal going in and out of jail, the latter becoming either a firefighter or a policeman.

Anyway, I'm sure you'd have a hard time finding anyone who doesn't think a name like Adolf Hitler would influence someone's life. I can't imagine it not becoming a lightning rod of ill will.
posted by bjrn at 2:17 PM on December 15, 2008


The real crime here is having the last name Campbell and not naming their son Bruce.
posted by qvantamon at 2:18 PM on December 15, 2008 [7 favorites]


stet writes "Judging by the poor kid I used to work with scrubbing public toilets in Walla Walla with 'nazi skin' tattooed on his knuckles,"

Ironically, that kid was a Jewish victim of his love for water-sports and an inept tattoo artist. When he rolled up his sleeves, you could see the full tattoo: "Ashkenazi skin-diver".
posted by orthogonality at 2:18 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


Does anyone find it ironic they are getting the cake from Lower Nazareth Township?
posted by Samizdata at 2:20 PM on December 15, 2008


Wow, I'm surprised they haven't tattooed the kids yet.
posted by R. Mutt at 2:21 PM on December 15, 2008


Sorry, IRFH, I took it a little too literally.
posted by fixedgear at 2:21 PM on December 15, 2008


Boy, those comments at the bottom of the article get better and better. Try this for example:

why is the kid named after him to begin with are they racist biggots or is there some family heritage. I tend to believe they are white supremacists

D'ya think?

The poster's confusion is probably best explained by their moniker: Krackerman
posted by ob at 2:21 PM on December 15, 2008


AstroZombie What is the world coming to when a kid named Adolph Hitler can't have cake?

I dunno, a world where people can't spell Adolf?
posted by Dysk at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


So he is trying to reclaim both the Swastika and the name Adolph Hitler from the Nazis?

Way to pick your battles, crazy guy.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:24 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


Stupid fascist woman can make her own fucking cake.
posted by pompomtom at 2:25 PM on December 15, 2008


I use the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade spelling.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:26 PM on December 15, 2008


"It doesn't mean hatred to me," he said. Deborah Campbell said a swastika "doesn't really have a meaning. It's just a symbol."

I know this is all just pissing into the wind, but...do they not even know what "symbol" means?
posted by kittyprecious at 2:30 PM on December 15, 2008 [13 favorites]


I read the Gladwell thing too-- and it's not just first letters. People with names that match their careers (what New Scientist calls "nominative determinism,") seem to be more likely than chance. There are lots of things that unconsciously influence decisions, so I wouldn't be surprised that names would be one of them.

My favorite name/career mismatch however is a guy who worked in private prisons whose first name is Doctor. I always wondered if Mom gave him that name hoping he'd grow up to be a doctor-- or just so that he could get the privileges when people mistook that name for him actually being a physician, like getting out of some speeding tickets etc.

I know that some Scandinavian country bans "fake" or objectionable names by making them illegal, which I tend to think is going overboard, but would have spared these poor kids.
posted by Maias at 2:31 PM on December 15, 2008


Can't you see? Adolph Hitler Campbell is a perfectly fitting name for a soup nazi. His parents obviously had his future career in mind when they named him.

*ducks*
posted by Fruny at 2:34 PM on December 15, 2008 [39 favorites]


You are investing the name with power, and as a result you invest the kid with power.

I hear this exact same argument used about the N word, and it rings just as false to me. The kid is named Adolf Hitler Campbell. There is no ignoring the impact that's going to have on his life, which I'm guessing is going to be a lot greater than if his name was Dick or Rod. My father worked with a man named Dick Hugg. I'm sure his childhood was no walk in the park. But I'm also sure young Dick Hugg's life was like being Willy Wonka's roommate compared to what's in store for Adolf Hitler Campbell. And all we have to do is just stop giving the name Adolf Hitler "power"? Yeah, not holding my breath for that one.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:42 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


I wonder where I got the first letter thing from. Perhaps some comment saying something about Adam's getting more As in school or something.

I have to say that I quite like what for instance Sweden has. It's not really about making objectionable names forbidden, the idea is that if it can be reasonably expected that a child will face difficulties based on a name, you can't give it that name. If you name your child Idiot, that won't be good for your child, so you can't name it that.
posted by bjrn at 2:45 PM on December 15, 2008


Willy Wonka's roommate, Tootsie Pop, didn't have it so easy either, actually. But I guess you'd have a stick up your ass, too, if all you ever got was three licks and a bite.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:46 PM on December 15, 2008 [8 favorites]


Adolph Hitler Campbell is a perfectly fitting name for a soup nazi.

Okay, that's hilarious.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:46 PM on December 15, 2008


Adolph Hitler Campbell is a perfectly fitting name for a soup nazi.

His alphabet soup is all Ks, though.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


Adolph Hitler Campbell is a perfectly fitting name for a soup nazi.

No cake for you!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:51 PM on December 15, 2008 [8 favorites]


It's been a while since I've payed $50 for a game, seeing as if you wait a few months month the price always halves anyway.
posted by Artw at 2:52 PM on December 15, 2008


Ol' Heath there thinks he's outsmarted the world. He's got the double disability checks coming in, he doesn't have to do anything but sit home among the knickknacks and nappies and tat, and now he wants sympathy (and a settlement, no doubt) over a supermarket birthday cake. Sad little family. I hope it's illegal to tattoo your kids.
posted by pracowity at 2:56 PM on December 15, 2008


1. Forget Sue. This is the true way of _ensuring_ badassery through poor naming. (metageezer: I am a 51 yo. man, some of you may have no idea of what I'm referencing.)

2. Does Adolph like his Wii?? That first pic is Nintendo's nightmare.

3. Cakes are dead easy to bake, ever watch that race-mixing nightmare Ace of Cakes.

4 Swastika skull and Cambells soup can. My guess at flavor : "Cream of Fail"
posted by djrock3k at 3:04 PM on December 15, 2008


They should have made the cake, and just spelled it "Adolf Hilter." Done and done.
posted by Chuffy at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2008


"It doesn't mean hatred to me," he said. Deborah Campbell said a swastika "doesn't really have a meaning. It's just a symbol."

When Joseph Goebbels Campbell would visit, the family would always get in fights with Uncle Joe over mythology and symbology. Not a pretty sight. PBS has documentary footage but they refuse to air it, and have it locked in a vault along with the Gene Simmons NPR interview.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:05 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


Tangential: I have a friend who shares a surname with Augusto Pinochet (just the surname). He's had his share of problems with it, like being the only one not invited to anybody's house when his high school class went on an exchange trip to Argentina.
posted by signal at 3:07 PM on December 15, 2008


Philip Roth once said-- I'm paraphrasing here because it's been a while -- that World War Two will finally be over when it becomes possible to name a child "Adolf" without any controversy or repercussions.

I don't think we've reached that point yet.
posted by jason's_planet at 3:08 PM on December 15, 2008


When my wife turned 30, I tried to get WalMart to write "Fuck Thirty" on the cake but they refused.
posted by ColdChef at 3:11 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


So you couldn't fuck her cake and eat it, too?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:13 PM on December 15, 2008


I'd go ahead and make the cake for them, but I don't think they'd enjoy eating it. I'm just sayin'.
posted by ColdChef at 3:16 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


Has anyone posted a link to Cake Wrecks yet? Because that's where I go to get all my cake-decorating schadenfreude on. Damn, now I'm hungry.
posted by jessamyn at 3:22 PM on December 15, 2008


I wonder if they'd make a cake for Joseph Stalin MacDonald
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:23 PM on December 15, 2008


Joseph Stalin MacDonald's cake makes you.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:25 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


CaKKKe.
posted by ColdChef at 3:25 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


Stolen from reddit's "neuromonkey " for the lulz:
"...and could you cook the cake in a Jew-filled oven?


Your definition of "lulz" would appear to differ somewhat from mine.
posted by dersins at 3:27 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'd go ahead and make the cake for them, but I don't think they'd enjoy eating it. I'm just sayin'.

They wouldn't even know.
posted by gman at 3:27 PM on December 15, 2008


Freakonomics has had plenty on the whole normative determinism issue (their claim, it should be noted, is that a child's first name doesn't matter), including a chapter in their book and several blog posts: Name Your Kid Fido If You Want and If I Name My Daughter CEO, Will She Become One, and plenty more on baby names and aptonyms.

There was also the Boy Named Sue article in the NYTimes earlier this year.
posted by youarenothere at 3:33 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


I hear this exact same argument used about the N word, and it rings just as false to me. The kid is named Adolf Hitler Campbell. There is no ignoring the impact that's going to have on his life, which I'm guessing is going to be a lot greater than if his name was Dick or Rod. My father worked with a man named Dick Hugg. I'm sure his childhood was no walk in the park. But I'm also sure young Dick Hugg's life was like being Willy Wonka's roommate compared to what's in store for Adolf Hitler Campbell. And all we have to do is just stop giving the name Adolf Hitler "power"? Yeah, not holding my breath for that one.

You're missing the greater point. In this context, yes, it was stupid for the parents to force their ideological battles onto their child through his first and middle names. The kid wasn't given a choice in whether or not he wanted to take part in this skirmish in the culture wars, and you're right that he'll almost certainly suffer for it later in life beyond a birthday cake.

But in the greater scheme of things, why in the hell do we need to treat certain words like saying Voldemort in a Harry Potter novel? Are we going to have another holocaust because some kid in a trailer park is named Adolf H. Campbell? Is non-insulting use of the dreaded "N-word" by a white person (like typing it out in the context of this sentence on MF) going to lead to the repeal of the Civil Rights Act or the 13th Amendment? No. The only possible consequence either of those things could create is a reaction of outrage and offense in some people who I would describe as hypersensitive.

If we would stop recoiling with horror at political incorrectness, it would lose its meaning. There would be no point in using it as a tool to shock and troll people, like the suggestion of illegitimacy was used in centuries past. When people stopped caring, it stopped being significant. So while little Adolf's mom and dad are bad parents for trying to conscript their kid into their ideological battles, it's not fair to blame them or the kid for other people's unjustified reactions to two words.
posted by Law Talkin' Guy at 3:34 PM on December 15, 2008


Although, unlike Obama, prosody in is young Hilter's favor.
posted by youarenothere at 3:41 PM on December 15, 2008


What, does this guy think there isn’t enough crap in the world he’s got to start this kind of bullshit with people?

I wish, and I strongly suspect a lot of other people do as well, that the major fucking problem in my life was I couldn’t get a birthday cake made for my kids because I am such a jagoff that I named them after Nazis because I just have so little fucking stress in my life that I’ve got to be the Aryan Woody Woodpecker and start kicking over people’s tea wagon with this focacta birthday cake crap.

I’m just - seriously, why the hell can’t you just shoot people? I’m really at a loss here. For a while there I knew why not, and I was really on board with that, but stuff like this just spins me out - there’s people starving everywhere, the economy is going into the toilet, we’ve got ongoing wars, you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting 12 kinds of trouble you can read about in the papers in your own backyard, I’ve got my own personal problems like everyone else does without going off and agitating more bullshit like this guy. What, he just didn’t have enough stress in his life he’s got to lay it on other folks?

I’m just picturing someone’s mom or something working at the bakery, maybe a part time gig, or someone who really needs the job, and this asshole wants to make trouble because he named his kid “adolph hitler” and that should get printed on a cake like anyone else blah de blah blah.

This is nothing. And yet, it’s just not enough that he occludes his kid’s identity with his own ego bullshit and this stupid, failed ethos predicated on outmoded pseudo-science from 70 years ago, he’s got to push it into people’s faces too.
It’s just a birthday cake. You sing the song. You put candles on it, blow them out and eat the fucking thing.
If it’s nothing to put the name on it, it’s nothing to NOT put the name on it.
They’re three years old. They won’t remember what color the damned thing was in a week.
It’s not a goddamned political statement you have to get into the paper and screw with someone who’s just looking to maybe make some cookies and bake some stuff for kids.
What, you name your kid ‘Hitler’ you don’t see that coming?
Why should Shop-Rite or anyone else have to make way for this asshole? Sure, he can name his kids whatever he wants, I don’t have to like it. I don’t have to let them into my home. I don’t have to associate with them. And if it’s my business, I don’t have to serve them. Hell, I can even throw someone off my property if I want.
And no, I don’t have to page Dick Hertz.

And those photos - gosh, we’re all real scared of your hard-ass skull there, uh where the hell is DCFS on this?
I mean, the (nazi) subject matter aside, this kind of fetishization of your kid is not healthy at all.
...well, ok, lotta kids named ‘Jesus’ yeah.
Still, always hated to see someone start shit with people over nothing.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:44 PM on December 15, 2008 [8 favorites]


Never fear, the story has a happy ending:

The grocer offered to make a cake with enough room for the Campbells to write their own inscription. But the Campbells refused, saying they would have a cake made at the Wal-Mart in Lower Nazareth Township. The Campbells say Wal-Mart made cakes for Adolf's first two birthdays.

A spokeswoman for Wal-Mart said the store won't put anything illegal or profane on a cake but thinks it's important to respect the views of customers and employees.

"Our No. 1 priority in decorating cakes is to serve the customer to the best of our ability," Anna Taylor, the spokeswoman, said from Bentonville, Ark.


Wal-Mart saves the day!
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:51 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


If it’s nothing to put the name on it, it’s nothing to NOT put the name on it.

That's some bullshit logic right there. These parents are assholes, but frankly, I don't care if some middle-aged fascist and his/her buddies want to get together and celebrate ole A.H.'s birthday. You're a cake decorator -- do your job or give it to someone else. I want your values dictating what kind of cake I can have like I want my pharmacist's religion dictating what kind of birth control I can have. Maybe I can get it elsewhere (in which case it's "nothing" to refuse) but that's not the frickin' point.

Next we'll have some Buddhists told they can't have a "swastika" on their cake. Oh but that's not the same thing. No, but should we have to explain to our baker a story so they'll agree to do their job?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:54 PM on December 15, 2008


I can't believe that article didn't mention the youngest child, little Godwin Campbell.
posted by Killick at 3:55 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


If we would stop recoiling with horror at political incorrectness, it would lose its meaning. There would be no point in using it as a tool to shock and troll people, like the suggestion of illegitimacy was used in centuries past. When people stopped caring, it stopped being significant.

Some niggers, kikes, and fags might disagree with you, cracker. Words can be used as tools of oppression and let's not pretend that they don't come with an emotional reaction. It is not because certain folks (shhhh, you mean non-whites (or people who are gay) when you speak of people who are angered over this) are hypersensitive about word use, it is because white people used those words to depict minorities as less than human. Why would you want these words to stop being taboo?
posted by fuq at 3:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


Dear Metafilter: Freedom includes the possibility that other people will make choices you find objectionable.
posted by oncogenesis at 3:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Next we'll have some Buddhists told they can't have a "swastika" on their cake.

Goddamn buddhists, always startin' shit.
posted by desjardins at 3:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Dear Metafilter: Freedom includes the possibility that other people will make choices you find objectionable.

Was there some broad consensus to curtail anyone's freedoms that I somehow missed?
posted by TungstenChef at 4:07 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


> You're a cake decorator -- do your job or give it to someone else.

Yeah, so make my cake with Hitler raping Anne Frank, and make it snappy. I can see how having your employees decorating a cake saying "Happy Birtday Adolf Hitler" might be an issue, and why you'd want to turn down a job like that. I can also see that the family might have troubles getting "We love you Adolf Hitler" and "We're proud of what you've done, Adolf Hitler" printed on stuff for the kid's graduation.
posted by bjrn at 4:07 PM on December 15, 2008


I want your values dictating what kind of cake I can have like I want my pharmacist's religion dictating what kind of birth control I can have.

You're seriously equating refusing to put a particular pattern of frosting on a cake with refusing healthcare?
posted by TungstenChef at 4:09 PM on December 15, 2008 [10 favorites]


I have low blood sugar, and Hitler birthday cakes is the only thing that seems to help.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:12 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


I can see how having your employees decorating a cake saying "Happy Birtday Adolf Hitler" might be an issue

Just so we all understand that we're picking on the worst/easiest case scenario. What other messages are suitable for rejection? Or hey, what if you just don't like the look/race/religion of your customer?

You're seriously equating refusing to put a particular pattern of frosting on a cake with refusing healthcare?

You're seriously cherry-picking a piece of my post without considering the rest? Why of course you are.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:13 PM on December 15, 2008


Something tells me that this kid has no future in Hollywood.
posted by clearly at 4:14 PM on December 15, 2008


Actually, I'm forgetting the largely American MeFi base. You can refuse to serve a customer you don't like on any basis, aren't you?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:15 PM on December 15, 2008


Dear Metafilter: Freedom includes the possibility that other people will make choices you find objectionable.

Translation:

Dear Metafilter: In America, in God's Country, you should be free to abuse your children mentally and physically, in person and by proxy, by naming your children after mass murderers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:15 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


aren't can't
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:15 PM on December 15, 2008


The dude has a Nintendo Wii. For some reason the idea of neo-nazi's playing Wii Sports makes me laugh.
posted by cazoo at 4:17 PM on December 15, 2008


In America, in God's Country, you should be free to abuse your children mentally and physically, in person and by proxy, by naming your children after mass murderers dictate cake-decorating patterns in the name of decency.
AMERICA... THE BEAU-TIFUL.

Next stop: Footloose.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:17 PM on December 15, 2008


Man, this woman at the bakery is like some sort of cake Nazi!

NO CAKE FOR YOU!

...oh wait, scratch that.
posted by clearly at 4:18 PM on December 15, 2008


> Just so we all understand that we're picking on the worst/easiest case scenario. What other messages are suitable for rejection? Or hey, what if you just don't like the look/race/religion of your customer?

I was more thinking along the lines that having to put "Happy birthday Adolf Hitler" on a cake might be something you can reasonably expect to be a distressing thing for any employee. I see it as a different issue than "I don't like your look/race/religion so I won't serve you".
posted by bjrn at 4:18 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure that is that different, bjrn. Croat bakery won't bake a cake for the Serb national holiday or v.v.? I'm not sure how that's much different than just refusing the Serb/Croat customer regardless of message, if offending/distressing the staff is the litmus test. Likewise, better arguments than "distress" are made in service of not serving certain minorities (loss of business). In Canada, those don't fly. I don't know about the U.S.. "Distress" just doesn't cut it. Of course, Canada has a rather "advanced" (ahem) notion of hate speech so this cake business probably wouldn't fly here, either, but it's always instructive to see what people think we can justifiably do (or explain away as "nothing") to those we can all agree we don't like.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:25 PM on December 15, 2008


Something tells me that this kid has no future in Hollywood.

Don't count him out.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:26 PM on December 15, 2008


If you think putting a mass murderer's name on a cake is bad, just think of all the high fructose corn syrup.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:29 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


Metafilter, where you can find someone to defend *anything* on the principle that someone might be being oppresed.
posted by Artw at 4:29 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


I can't help but think this whole "the mean people won't make my cake" experience will kickstart the kid's lifelong "oppressed white minority" complex.

(It would be fun to see the parents' heads a-splode when someone finally breaks it to them that "Aryan Nation" = Iran.)
posted by Sys Rq at 4:29 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Well, I think it is. To go back to the easy extremes, a picture of Hitler raping Anne Frank (or whatever else horribly offensive you can think of) on my cake, is that something you would find problematic if it was refused?
posted by bjrn at 4:30 PM on December 15, 2008


Metafilter, where you can find someone to defend *anything* on the principle that someone might be being oppresed.

Or hey, Metafilter: A society can be judged by how it treats its least desirable members Shut up you fucking Nazis.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:34 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


bjrn -- well, the situation that comes to mind here is Canada's experience with Zundel. Hateful guy, no question. Runs a website with all kinds of nasty white supremacist nonsense. So we deport him... on a national security certificate. Which to me is a clear abuse of power. The guy was no national security threat. This was taking power vested in the government by a public trusting that it would be used appropriately, and using it for something else. Basically, we didn't like the guy, so who cares? Of course that's a huge consequence; the question is where do you draw the line.

I'm struggling to identify a past job where I would get to make the kind of call you're suggesting. As a clerk in a bookstore, if the customer came up to the counter with something that I found personally objectionable? I've cooked in a few kitchens. What if someone wanted veal? I just don't get the sense of entitlement that says "I am free in my job to refuse to do whatever makes me uncomfortable". Imagining your scenario, I figure I'd either be free to do the work or, if I felt that strongly about it, quit. I wouldn't think I could pick and choose what customers and what messages I like.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:42 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


it's always instructive to see what people think we can justifiably do (or explain away as "nothing") to those we can all agree we don't like.

They didn't "do" anything to him. They refused to put a message on a cake. They offered to sell him a blank cake and frosting so he could write his own message. This is hardly a federal case of discrimination. He has no civil right to a decorated cake.
posted by desjardins at 4:43 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


A society can be judged by how it treats its least desirable members

That would be cake-makers, who should all just shut up and further peoples insane child-harming race hate schemes, the shifty sugar-fingered swine.
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


The reason the Campbells refused the "blank" cake is that upon closer inspection the cake was discovered to depict the invisible ghost of Anne Frank invisibly ghost-raping the invisible ghost of Hitler.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:46 PM on December 15, 2008


I'm curious how you viewed the whole cartoon Muhammed publishing issue, bjrn. Because that seemed to be a situation where a lot of people went: "I cannot personally understand the nature of the offence so it is silly and not to be taken seriously." (to be fair there were also more thoughtful approaches on both sides, and I personally side with the publisher) Is that something you found problematic to be published?

He has no civil right to a decorated cake.

As I said, I can't say how this would play out in Canada with our hate speech laws, but were it any other message that the decorator felt was objectionable, it would almost certainly be caught by our Canadian Human Rights Act (not the Charter). The "here, take a blank cake" probably wouldn't do. So that's interesting.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:46 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


It's a slippery slope. If I can't go to your house and spray-paint kiddy porn snuff film propaganda on your front door, then we are all fascists.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [9 favorites]


There's really no comparing a shop not wanting to put certain words on a cake and deporting someone. And you're struggling to see where you'd make such a call? I thought we were going for the quick and easy extremes to illustrate our points?

I think there are things you can consider to be something most people would find offensive or distressing, and I think there's no issue refusing those jobs. I think that's a fair point to draw the line.
posted by bjrn at 4:49 PM on December 15, 2008


Anyway, that's something that I've run into a few times on MeFi and always forget about: your ability to refuse service based on... well, anything. For better or worse, it ain't the way it is in Upper Canadia. I leave you to the finer points of Nazi bashing. (seriously though, aren't child naming laws nearly ubiquitous now? I don't think they're confined to "that Scandinavian country". I'm certain I've seen it in regard to Australia, for example.)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:50 PM on December 15, 2008


I want to point out that Aryan is also an old (and non-racist) Iranian name. Just so that you won't have an awkward moment if you ever meet a brown dude named Aryan.
posted by lenny70 at 4:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


If we would stop recoiling with horror at political incorrectness, it would lose its meaning.

Being anti-PC is the new PC. And there's a huuuuge difference between spelling the word "wymyn", for example, and just, you know, not naming your child Adolf Hitler.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:50 PM on December 15, 2008 [17 favorites]


There's really no comparing a shop not wanting to put certain words on a cake and deporting someone.

Sure there is. Cake decorating is not nearly as serious, I mean not even in the same league, as deportation. See, I just compared them. However, I think I said that already.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:51 PM on December 15, 2008


Yeah, the naming thing is altogether different I think, Marisa. I have no objection to the child naming laws given that they prevent real, that is, not-vanilla-icing-based harm.

Anyway, peace out.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:52 PM on December 15, 2008


> Is that something you found problematic to be published?

No. No one was forced to publish the comics, and no one was forced to read those comics.
posted by bjrn at 4:54 PM on December 15, 2008


When the Nazis came for the cake,
I remained silent;
I was eating an appetizer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:54 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


And such small portions!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Robert M. Gordon, a clinical psychologist in Allentown, said.... 'Only a crazy person would do that.'

Really? He said "a crazy person?"

Do psychologists in Allentown get some different level of training than I expect?
posted by rokusan at 4:57 PM on December 15, 2008 [7 favorites]


The dude has a Nintendo Wii. For some reason the idea of neo-nazi's playing Wii Sports makes me laugh.

We've already established that his parents can't spell, so let's assume they miscounted the W's.
posted by rokusan at 4:58 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


Imagining your scenario, I figure I'd either be free to do the work or, if I felt that strongly about it, quit. I wouldn't think I could pick and choose what customers and what messages I like.

It depends on the workplace and what rights are being infringed. If someone makes a comment here on MetaFilter, for example (my workplace) that me and/or me and the community and/or me and the other mods deem over-the-top offensive or just plain wrong and out of place, we can delete it and/or we can ban you. I'm not expected to put up with creepy hate speech here in my workplace. mathowie is fine with that and as the top-level boss what he says is pretty much all there is. I'm sure there are many smaller workplaces that have similar buck-stops-here policies.

I guess I'm not sure what position you're arguing from. Basically at a workpace in the US you can, to a certain extent, refuse to give people goods and services, you just can't be refusing that on the basis of certain characteristsics like their race as an obvious example.

The assumption is that people can go elsewhere to get their goods and services and if they don't like that you won't let them make their Hitlercake there, they can go to Wal-Mart. The issue comes when there's something people need [say a driver's license, or an apartment] and they can't go ANYWHERE to get that because everyone is saying no because of of their beliefs or status (we see this sometimes with sex offender laws and where they can live when they're released), then you have to deal with the fact that there's discrimination in a situation where the biases that some people have are getting in the way of people's life, liberty pursuit of happiness, bla bla.

The reason rights are so important is because they really are rights, that you are given by the government and protected. There are lots and lots of things you generally GET but are not guaranteed to you. These people with their cake are seemingly confused about that. Yes, you can name your child whatever you want to make some bizarro point, but that's going to have some repercussions and no one's going to be really sad for you that you can't get your cake (that you insist must have his FULL name) decorated at the place of your choosing.
posted by jessamyn at 4:59 PM on December 15, 2008 [6 favorites]


> > There's really no comparing a shop not wanting to put certain words on a cake and deporting someone.

> Sure there is. Cake decorating is not nearly as serious, I mean not even in the same league, as deportation. See, I just compared them.


Seriously? Do I really need to clarify that bit? Okay: Yes, you can compare them, just as you can compare anything to anything else. However the way you compared them didn't (in my opinion) add to the discussion in that they have vastly different people involved (customers and a company vs an individual and a state agency) and vastly different issues involved. I shouldn't have said "you can't compare", I should have said "you shouldn't compare" and detailed how I think the differences in the situations are so great that a comparison adds as much as comparing the icing of the cake to the latest world championships in air guitar playing. I'm sorry this was so unclear in my comment.
posted by bjrn at 5:00 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Can you equate them?
posted by Artw at 5:03 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Hitlercake.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:03 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


...and "We're proud of what you've done, Adolf Hitler" printed on stuff for the kid's graduation.

Eh, I'm not so sure they'll have to worry about that particular cake.
posted by tristeza at 5:07 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


To be fair, if they named the kid POL POT in celebration of the famed mass murderer, and so that by extension of that everything the kids name appeared upon became a celebration of Pol Pot, then I doubt anyone in Shoprite would really have cared. It seems that Hitler is being discriminated against here.

Also I can’t help thinking that liberals should retaliate against Wal*Marts shameful making of the cake by naming a child ADAM AND STEVE WEDDED BLISS and demanding a birthday cake, possibly with two Thomas The Tank Engines kissing.
posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


Eh, I'm not so sure they'll have to worry about that particular cake.

ADOLF HITLER WINS NOBEL PEACE PRIZE
posted by Artw at 5:09 PM on December 15, 2008


If only she had been named Jefferson Davis Campbell and her parents merely kept Confederate flags lying around the house. Then it wouldn't have been offensive at all.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 5:10 PM on December 15, 2008


They could get a Dukes of Hazard cake and just cut the ends off the car.
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


To be fair, if they named the kid POL POT in celebration of the famed mass murderer, and so that by extension of that everything the kids name appeared upon became a celebration of Pol Pot, then I doubt anyone in Shoprite would really have cared.

Really? The last time I tried to make a cake saying "Everybody loves POT", they wouldn't make it either.

I had to go for brownies instead.
posted by qvantamon at 5:13 PM on December 15, 2008


Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee that other people have to say it, too. A private business is under no obligation to engage in speech they find offensive. (Wal-Mart, for instance, won't put anything "profane" on their cakes. No cuss words, but Adolf Hitler is okay; is that a violation of someone's rights?)

I mean, yes, you can be unhappy that a company won't provide you with a service. That means you get someone else to make your cake with "Fuck Hitler" written on it. That doesn't mean anyone else has to be upset for you. And it sure as heck isn't the same as the pharmacist and his/her birth control issue.

Medical care > cakes.
posted by Scattercat at 5:16 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


There are lots and lots of things you generally GET but are not guaranteed to you.

That's a major difference here under the CHRA. No consideration would be given to the ability to get baked goods elsewhere, due to a rather stringent concept of "participation in society". Don't ask me. I didn't make it up.

Thanks for the informative answer. I was thinking more along the lines of what Artw is suggesting -- there are lots of messages, short of hate speech, which particular bakers might find "distressful". I'd rather they not get to pick and choose.

Mostly what I'm going to take away from this thread is the concept of Hitlercake, which I picture as similar, but not exactly like, Tim Tams.

On preview: Medical care > cakes. Shocking. Thanks for clearing that up, Scattercat. Really.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:18 PM on December 15, 2008


I was thinking more along the lines of what Artw is suggesting -- there are lots of messages, short of hate speech, which particular bakers might find "distressful". I'd rather they not get to pick and choose.

Yeah! Make my "the guy who piped this frosting told me he's going to kill you" cake, goddamn it!
posted by Sys Rq at 5:24 PM on December 15, 2008


The last time I tried to make a cake saying "Everybody loves POT", they wouldn't make it either

Medical marijuana?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:26 PM on December 15, 2008


It's like this weird capitalism thing here. Basically if you're a baker and some lady named Marsha once broke your heart, you can refuse to write the name Marsha on a cake, legally. The assumption is people "vote with their dollars" and go elsewhere and the heartbroken baker with the frosting issues will lose business if he's too restrictive about what he will or won't do. Because you have no right to have the name Marsha written on a cake. And I think we can agree that it's a weird irrational thing and not a smart business decision in this age of Yelp and whatnot, but it's LEGAL. This gets pesky when people's preferences seem to closely align with things that, say, you can't discriminate against. So you could make the argument that you just won't frost Long Duk Dong's birthday cake because it makes you feel weird, but if people decide that you have a thing against Asian birthday boys, they may decide to sue you. In fact the Hitlercake peopel can TRY to sue, but they likely won't get very far.

In reality the voting with dollars thing sometimes works and sometimes -- like at the lunch counters in Alabama in the sixties -- sometimes doesn't which is why we have things like the Civil Rights Act which says, among other things, that you can't refuse to serve black people just because they're black.

I work in public libraries and we're public places which means we have a lot of guidelines and rules about who we serve and under what circumstances we can refuse service so this is a topic sort of near and dear to me.
posted by jessamyn at 5:26 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the informative answer. I was thinking more along the lines of what Artw is suggesting -- there are lots of messages, short of hate speech, which particular bakers might find "distressful". I'd rather they not get to pick and choose.

Are you suggesting that little Adam And Steve Wedded Bliss Wyatt doesn't have a real name? Yeah, you may or may not objetc to Adam and Steve having wedded bliss, but my child is only little! Why are you oppressing her?
posted by Artw at 5:26 PM on December 15, 2008


Actually, I'm forgetting the largely American MeFi base. You can refuse to serve a customer you don't like on any basis, aren't you?

Actually no, you can't.

In the States you can not unequivocally deny products or services to anyone you choose. If it can be shown that you refused a "public accommodation" to a "protected class," then you can be found liable for discrimination, as per the Civil Rights Act 1964 (to which jessamyn refers/links). Check out this recent previous thread regarding a wedding photographer's refusal to photograph a "same-sex" wedding in New Mexico in which the proprietor was found to have improperly refused service based on that state's anti-discrimination provisions.

Regarding this case:
"If the Campbells have a legal case over the refusal, it would be that the family was denied service because of race, ethnicity or religion, said Shannon Powers, of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission, a state agency that enforces anti-discrimination laws.

The Campbells, she said, would have to prove ShopRite didn't make a reasonable attempt to provide service it provides others. She said the offer to make a cake with room for an inscription would probably count as a reasonable attempt.

'It sounds like they (the supermarket) don't want to offend other patrons or do something offensive to their own sensibilities. If that's the motivation, that's totally different from discrimination,' Powers said."
Nonetheless, I am personally on the fence regarding this situation. Part of me ("most?") supports the family's first-amendment rights and a potential claim of refusal of "public accomodation;" the other part finds the entire incident abhorrent. It's in keeping with my stance that as much as I (a gay man) find the hate speech spewed by folks like Fred Phelps (who was in Boston this weekend picketing a production of The Laramie Project) disgusting, I do support his right to speak such vile words.
posted by ericb at 5:33 PM on December 15, 2008


Any retailer has the right of refusal. Refuse to serve you, for instance, for any reason, because it's their place and as a business, they set the rules, period. I don't think they even really have to give a reason.

You know, shit head is just a name too.

"They say they aren't racists but believe races shouldn't mix."
Huh? No elaboration, I see. 'Unique' names are one thing, like an online nick, but in real life in the real world, your name definitely could be a career ender. You want to limit your kids' ability to make their own way in life, don't name them after 3rd Reich criminals.

"I just figured that they're just names," Deborah Campbell said. "
Just names huh. I call bullshit on that. The dumbass parents know a tad bit of history and their kids' names connotation. Even adults make fun of peoples' names. That Sarah Palin made a big issue regarding Obama's middle name, insinuating that someone with a name like that was unfit to get elected. Hmmmmm¿

When heath campbell mentioned his German ancestry and a relative who was in the SS... you're going to tell me in your next breath that swastikas are symbols of peace and balance. Forgot about the ideology huh?

He's got more wrong with his health than just emphysema and the mom has more wrong with her than just a bad back, conditions that leave them both on disability. Nice. What's preventing them from getting some edycayshun if they can't work physically any more¿

Freedom to be poor, taught to kids, lovely. Some history lesson, sure won't forget it.
posted by alicesshoe at 5:38 PM on December 15, 2008


Part of me ("most?") supports the family's first-amendment rights and a potential claim of refusal of "public accomodation

On reflection, I (IANAL) do not see how the Campbells could claim status as a "protected class" and having been refused "public accomodation," as defined by state or federal law.
posted by ericb at 5:42 PM on December 15, 2008


Any retailer has the right of refusal. Refuse to serve you, for instance, for any reason, because it's their place and as a business, they set the rules, period. I don't think they even really have to give a reason.

Uhhh, no ... see above.
posted by ericb at 5:43 PM on December 15, 2008


Late to the game on this one, but: "It doesn't mean hatred to me," he said. Deborah Campbell said a swastika "doesn't really have a meaning. It's just a symbol."?

SCENE: LIVING ROOM. Exit to KITCHEN is upstage, right, and exit to FOYER is upstage, left. Shelving covered in Nazi and porcelain tchotchkes is between the two. Stage left, center, is an open window covered by curtains. MAN with blonde mullet stands in front of shelving, arms crossed, being interviewed.

V.O.: Do you really mean to say that the name "Adolph Hitler" is completely irrelevant?

MAN: Sure. I mean, that Adolph Hitler died a long time ago. Who's really worried about him? I mean, who even thinks of that guy? [MAN uncrosses arms, revealing swastika tattoo on hand as he gesticulates]

V.O.: [Beat.] So you don't think that Nazi symbolism—and its reference to a history of hate, oppression, and murder—really means anything, to anyone?

MAN: No, no. Take the swastika. It's just a thing. I don't know what people get so upset about. [The window curtains flutter inward, revealing an SS-bolt pattern.] I think swastikas are peaceful, for instance. They mean that to some people.

[In background, CHILD runs from KITCHEN to FOYER, holding a spinning swastika pinwheel.]

V.O.: So Nazi symbolism is totally irrelevant, and nobody cares about it at all?

MAN: Yeah. I guess that's what I'm saying. Is that so hard to believe?

[In background, CHILD runs from foyer into LIVING ROOM, still with pinwheel, and accidentally bangs into the shelving unit, toppling pewter eagle statues, plastic panzers, swastika patches, et al.]

MAN: [Spins around, screams.] GOD DAMMIT, HITLER!

[END SCENE.]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:44 PM on December 15, 2008 [4 favorites]


In reality the voting with dollars thing sometimes works and sometimes -- like at the lunch counters in Alabama in the sixties -- sometimes doesn't which is why we have things like the Civil Rights Act which says, among other things, that you can't refuse to serve black people just because they're black.

For sure, and it wouldn't matter that it was "just lunch", as opposed to, say, health care. I'm not surprised that it was on MeFi that I heard that a private business can refuse service for any reason, though, as I see it again in this thread, repeatedly.

Ah, thanks for filling in a few more details, ericb. Interesting.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:45 PM on December 15, 2008


djrock3k writes "Forget Sue. This is the true way of _ensuring_ badassery through poor naming. (metageezer: I am a 51 yo. man, some of you may have no idea of what I'm referencing.)"

Actually Mr. Cash is pretty popular with generations across the board. I've never heard so much Cash as I have lately in kitchens.
posted by Mitheral at 5:48 PM on December 15, 2008


The Campbells turned down the market's offer to make a cake with enough room for them to write their own inscription and can't understand what all of the fuss is about.
Sure they can't.
posted by Flunkie at 5:48 PM on December 15, 2008


ericb: Part of me ("most?") supports the family's first-amendment rights and a potential claim of refusal of "public accomodation;" the other part finds the entire incident abhorrent. It's in keeping with my stance that as much as I (a gay man) find the hate speech spewed by folks like Fred Phelps [...] disgusting, I do support his right to speak such vile words.

Fred Phelps has the freedom to say whatever he wants, but if you were a signmaker, would you paint his signs for him?
posted by desjardins at 5:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


and just, you know, not naming your child Adolf Hitler.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:50 PM on December 15



You say it like it's so easy!
posted by ob at 5:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [3 favorites]


Some niggers, kikes, and fags might disagree with you, cracker. Words can be used as tools of oppression and let's not pretend that they don't come with an emotional reaction. It is not because certain folks (shhhh, you mean non-whites (or people who are gay) when you speak of people who are angered over this) are hypersensitive about word use, it is because white people used those words to depict minorities as less than human. Why would you want these words to stop being taboo?

First, actually no, I don't mean non-whites. I know plenty of members of the Black Lawyers' Association and various LGBT parties who feel the same way as I do. In fact, performing a quick mental head count of the people I know who share your righteous indignity over the use of certain "taboo" words, the overwhelming majority are white. There are of course some minorities as well, but my counterpoint still stands.

Second, you're distorting historical context if you're saying that those terms have the same meaning today as they did before the civil rights era. Today, when a white person calls a black person a nigger in public, whose image suffers? Who is seen as "less than human," to use your words? To pretend that these slurs and epithets have the same meaning today notwithstanding any social reforms since the 1950's, is the only thing that preserves their significance.

For example, and expounding on my earlier post, the word "bastard" was once used as a tool of "oppression" against the children of unmarried parents in Western society, and not all that long ago, to boot. Calling someone a bastard was at one time a supreme insult, much like a white person using the word "nigger" today. Social reforms followed which made illegitimacy (I think you'd insist I use the term "nonmarital status") less significant, and so the insult "bastard" lost significance at the same time. I'm sure I don't need to belabor the analogy to civil rights reforms.

If we let these artifacts of an earlier intolerant culture die off in the face of our own social reforms, we wouldn't have to worry about their usage. They don't carry the same force today as they did when being a minority actually meant official status as a second-class citizen. We all know not to feed the trolls-- I don't really see much difference between that and the wisdom of putting our overreaction to political incorrectness to bed.
posted by Law Talkin' Guy at 5:54 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Oh God, I knew this was Pennsylvania. :( We have the largest percentage of skinhead/Neo-Nazi groups in the country. Just awful.
posted by chihiro at 5:55 PM on December 15, 2008


I agree with the baker's decision. They just didn't want to end up on cakewrecks.
posted by whatjusthappened at 6:01 PM on December 15, 2008


I guess I'm not sure what position you're arguing from. Basically at a workpace in the US you can, to a certain extent, refuse to give people goods and services, you just can't be refusing that on the basis of certain characteristsics like their race as an obvious example.

I think that's the case in Canada, too.

As to the stupid parents, I hope their children turn out much better than I expect they will.

It is reasonable to believe that the strong negative connotations associated with these names will result in the children questioned, criticised, and hurt. Giving the children these names is tantamount to treating them with emotional and physical abuse. Abuse by proxy.

I recognize the potential for a slippery slope, but I am not convinced that taking one reasonable step is the beginning of a slide into facism... I wouldn't like the State stepping in, but I also don't think I'd grouse about it too much. To take the children away would be over the line; to make it a legal requirement that they change their names, not so much.

I dream of their being some sort of Life test.
[game show format]
Heath, do you think it's a good idea to name your child after Hitler?
You do? Bzzzzt! Sorry, Jim, you just failed Life! You'll have to leave the stage now, yes, over this way, through the Door to Eternity, thanks for playing. Bye now.
Now for our next contestant, Jane. Jane, your question is do you play in traffic?
No? Ah, you're still in the round, then. We'll get back to you in a moment.
Now, Deborah, the question you're being asked is would you name your child “Aryan Nation”? Think carefully before you decide…

posted by five fresh fish at 6:06 PM on December 15, 2008


I think that's the case in Canada, too.

It would be under the Charter, fff, but not under the CHRA. (and the Charter wouldn't apply to a private business anyway) Actually, this would be a minefield here, given the inevitable political speech vs. hate speech arguments (both false, I think, under these circumstances) and where the "best interests of the child" would lie here... I have no idea.

Anyway, thanks for the informative thread. Glad I stuck around.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 6:11 PM on December 15, 2008


In reality the voting with dollars thing sometimes works and sometimes -- like at the lunch counters in Alabama in the sixties -- sometimes doesn't which is why we have things like the Civil Rights Act which says, among other things, that you can't refuse to serve black people just because they're black.

Which is why we have things like smoking bylaws in BC. Pubs were forced to go smoke-free. There was a lot of noise about it, but in the end the law stood long enough that most pubs didn't go back to smoking: the benefits of being smoke-free turned out to be way more than the costs. Gained customers, lowered costs, increased employee happiness.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:12 PM on December 15, 2008


One survey found that a majority of parents believe that a child's name influences their future success or failure. Whether or not such actually occurs it seems that most people are concerned about it.

Have there been any studies to prove/disprove that a person's name has impact on one's personality, development, socialization, etc.?
Anecdotally, Wonderful Terrific Monds, Jr. made it to the NFL.

On the other hand, his baseball-playing son Wonderful Terrific Monds III only made it as far as Double A.
posted by Flunkie at 6:13 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


So much for that whole Florida or Germany thing, I guess.
posted by dead cousin ted at 6:24 PM on December 15, 2008


I also recoiled in terror at seeing Holland. Then again, Holland, Michigan isn't exactly the most hate-group-free of places (Southwest Michigan wasn't the most Jew-friendly of places to grow up in). What a relief, I guess, to realize it's just a different backwards part of the country.

Just to throw some gasoline on the fire: In Japan, you have to use characters from the recognized list of Kanji to make names. It's against the law to give your child, for example, the name Dogshit Suzuki. If you want to name your child something else, you must use katakana, which is only for foreign loan words, and having a katakana name is bad enough, let alone being named dogshit (difficulties with loan applications, bank accounts, etc...). I used to think this was an oppresive and ridiculous rule. Then I saw this post.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:27 PM on December 15, 2008


Today, when a white person calls a black person a nigger in public, whose image suffers? Who is seen as "less than human," to use your words? ... If we let these artifacts of an earlier intolerant culture die off in the face of our own social reforms, we wouldn't have to worry about their usage.

The important thing as I see it here is in it's the offended party that gets to decide when this word has ceased to be powerful, or is becoming less powerful. The people who use hateful speech with impunity have already decided the use of such language is fine. And seeing as how Adolf Hitler is still a pretty vivid and horrifying memory in the minds of many, many people, maybe it's a little too early to say we ought to just chill out when it comes to naming your child after one of the most hated human beings in world history, who's only been dead for some sixty-odd years.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:32 PM on December 15, 2008


Yep, I note that both Australia and New Zealand have such laws, and the UK Deed Poll office can refuse any name it finds "vulgar, offensive, blasphemous or unsuitable". Looks like Germany goes so far as to match suitability of name to gender for approval. Sweden also looks to take a hands-on approach.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 6:38 PM on December 15, 2008


from the comments ...
... Naming your children Nazi-related names is wrong in every sense, and trying to defend it just because children are innnocent isn't working. ...

Posted by Zyklon on 12/14/08 at 10:39AM

posted by swell at 6:49 PM on December 15, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'd never seen the Godwin law broken on the first line of a post.
posted by OrangeDrink at 7:33 PM on December 15, 2008


Ron Vibbentrop never had this problem.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:56 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Well, not too sure about the names of the first three kids, but I have always thought MyDadisapindickretard would be a nice name for the fourth one.
posted by jcworth at 7:59 PM on December 15, 2008


Today, when a white person calls a black person a nigger in public, whose image suffers? Who is seen as "less than human," to use your words? ... If we let these artifacts of an earlier intolerant culture die off in the face of our own social reforms, we wouldn't have to worry about their usage.

So ... ehm, the fact that a white person calling a black person a racial slur in public causes the white person to be seen as 'less than human' and that is ... good? But disapproving of the white person calling a black person a racial slur is ... bad? Because presumably the problem is that the black person doesn't like being called a racial slur, and the best solution is not to disapprove of white people calling black people nasty names.

This is kind of confusing.

Look, a lot of times not very clever undergraduates writing for a school newspaper will decide to be 'daring' and write a 'satirical' newspaper article chock full of racial stereotypes. Generally, people will become upset, and the authors will write back "We are hilarious, quit being so PC, you people need to get a sense of humor."

And this is missing the point. The reason people are upset is not because they have dedicated their lives to political correctness and that nothing brings forth greater joy then waging some sort of silly war against totally hilarious young journalists. The reason people are upset is because the author is being a dick, and it is quite a natural response to be upset when someone is being a dick at you. A lot of the time these 'journalists' will say "I ran it by my (ethnic) friend" and they thought it was hilarious! Well, generally your friends know you and believe you have good intentions (or they wouldn't be your friend). Generally your friends will not think you are being a dick.

However, if you are writing a newspaper article with a general audience, you should be aware that if you are not very good at the whole 'funny' thing, you may come off as a giant dick, and people will be upset. This is not their problem. This is yours, because you don't get to dictate how people react to what you write.

I'm a minority, but I'm not a black person. I would not presume to tell a black person how they should react if someone calls them a racial slur, just because if someone called me that racial slur, I would not be all that affected. I sincerely doubt that it is a conscious choice to be sensitive to a certain word, and that any reaction can be just turned off at will.
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:09 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


If they'd been smart and named him Christian Identity Campbell, no one would have batted an eyelash.
posted by lukemeister at 9:36 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


It's still less obnoxious than naming a kid Braeden or Dakotah.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:25 PM on December 15, 2008 [5 favorites]


Who knew that my middle school plan of naming my first son Samwise was not that unreasonable.
posted by Lokisbane at 10:47 PM on December 15, 2008 [1 favorite]


Well, to be fair, it's a much better name than Adolf Schicklgruber Campbell.
posted by Nahum Tate at 10:49 PM on December 15, 2008


And people thought I was an idiot for naming my boys Joseph Stalin Mc and Pol Pot Mc. Who's laughing now huh? What a couple of fucktards these parents are, they could have at least been a little more subtle and named the kids Eighty Eight, Fourteen Words and Prussian Blue Campbell.
posted by MikeMc at 11:10 PM on December 15, 2008


"Dumb folks do something dumb, others outraged! Story at eleven."
posted by From Bklyn at 1:14 AM on December 16, 2008


uncleozzy: "They must have a really hard time finding keychains with these kids' names on them at Six Flags."

Don't be ridiculous. Anyone anywhere near the Lehigh Valley knows Dorney Park is superior in every way.
posted by potch at 1:36 AM on December 16, 2008


Well at least they can still put the candles on...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:25 AM on December 16, 2008


Well at least they can still put the candles on...

You'll probably want a NSFW next to that link, unless you work for IG Farben or something.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:59 AM on December 16, 2008


Well at least they can still put the candles on...

How is it that racists always manage to edge out crazy people in the field of Bad Web Design? That German shepherd .gif, running back and forth across the screen - wow.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:04 AM on December 16, 2008


One can only hope that the little kids grow up compassionate & tolerant, change their names as early as they can, and one day pay a little visit to dear old Mom & Pop with their Jewish or Muslim significant-other-of-color, and hopefully some kids of their own. Watch the P's spontaneously combust!
posted by VicNebulous at 6:13 AM on December 16, 2008


visit to dear old Mom & Pop with their Jewish or Muslim significant-other-of-color

I'm hoping in due course Adolf Hitler Cambell changes his name to Martin Luther King Jr Campbell.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:53 AM on December 16, 2008


“You're a cake decorator -- do your job or give it to someone else.”

Uh, no. It’s my business. If I don’t want to put “fuck you” on there, I don’t have to put it on there.
But no one’s putting a gun to their head saying they have to buy a cake there. Wal-Mart will do it? Swell. They get the money for it.
No one’s discriminating against a broad class of people or using their own platform to make a counter statement, they’re merely refusing a specific instance.

Or what, some black guy gets too raucous in my bar and I throw him out I’m a racist?
Or am I oppressing people who like to get in other people’s faces when they’re drunk?

No, I’m refusing one customer based on something specific to that person and the disruption or potential disruption.

I put “hitler” on a cake and maybe I lose other customers. Same as if I don’t throw out the guy screaming in the middle of the bar. What, he’s just exercising his first amendment rights?
No, his behavior is infringing on the rights of my staff and my other customers. They don’t get paid to take shit from people.
Same deal with smoking in the bar. Your right to ingest smoke ends where my right to not be forced to ingest it begins.

That’s why I’m saying - it’s nothing. It’s a cake. And it’s this jagoff pushing his thing on someone else. No one at the store said he can’t name his kid Hitler. He’s free to speak wherever and however he likes. He is free to celebrate Hitler’s birthday.

Doesn’t mean I or anyone else have to kiss his ass because he’s trying to hand us money or do business with him or give him a platform from which to speak. It’s not like he can’t make his own cake and use that as a platform.

For me it’s a speech - platform issue. I don’t have to like you saying “Nazis are pretty great” but then, I don’t have to help you broadcast your message.

As it so happens this particular item is a luxury. It’s not even real food. It’s a custom item. Well, my house, my fucking rules.
Want to parade your home made Hitler cake all around your property, I can’t (and shouldn’t) stop you.
Want to force me into writing your message? Yeah, that’s where the line is drawn.

Any other applications I cede to free speech. No one should be deported for their speech. You own a newspaper and you want to publish a Mohammad cartoon? Have at it.

But someone comes in and wants you to run a Happy Birthday Hitler cartoon - you don’t have to publish it. It’s your newspaper.Let him get his own damned publishing company. And if he does, he can mass publish it, on cakes even, and I would have nothing to say.

Bakers can pick and choose their participation in any speech just as publishers can. It’s not the speech, it’s the platform.

But again, the cake doesn’t really bother me one way or the other (again, it’s nothing). What bothers me is that he took it to, and got, press coverage. Cause all this trouble over what anyone with common sense would see is starting shit with people in the first place.

Like the Phelps thing. Ok, I do support his right to speak. On the other hand - he’s starting up with people who are in a very serious emotional state and in some cases are fairly handy with firearms.

That there is close enough to shouting “fire” in a crowded theater for me to be ok with a law that pushes him back a few extra hundred feet from a funeral.

Now, were it my funeral, I suspect he’d end up in a woodchipper either way (feet first) because a lot of my friends have a lower tolerance for bullshit than I even though they respect free speech about as much as I do.
But one has to recognize and accomodate the reality while respecting the ideal.

In this case, what, you’re going to go in there with cops and force some baker to write “happy birthday hitler” on a cake? Make the store fire the baker? Put them out of business? Get real. They can just change the policy and not put anything on cakes and moot the whole situation.
Any asshole can be right about something, he’s still an asshole.

As it so happens this particular guy is wrong.

But I’m thinking of, say, the Nazis wanting to march in Skokie. Sure, they do (and should) have the right. But they’re still pricks looking to start trouble. And one can’t ignore that even though one wishes to protect an ideal.

I mean, 99 times out of 100 they’re not focused on the actual issue, they’re looking to test resolve (and this is obvious from the words of the people here, they’re not fooling anyone with this “just a symbol” bullshit. Hell, I don’t care, but it obviously means something to them).

Which is why, while I disagree with the philosophy, I can’t fault the Israeli ‘crazification escalation’ policy. E.g. you shoot one of ours, we rocket attack a whole neighborhood.
Oh, it’s not right, it’s immoral, but it does send the intended message on resolve (not, IMHO, this is the best message to send or by any means the best for the political situation now, but they are still there).

Which most pricks like this don’t get. They tend to equate largesse, tolerance and mercy with weakness and measure their own strength by the amount of trouble they can stir up or bullshit they can talk about violence.

Got the skulls and nazi regalia with birds of prey and swords? They’re Captain Hard-Ass.
(Even though - yeah, it’s just decoration, sure)

But refuse to so much as write their kid’s name on a birthday cake much less throw them a real beating for provoking you and suddenly they’re the oppressed victim and go running to the press.
Boo the fuck Hoo.

Yeah, words empower, oppress, whatever.
You know what’s more powerful than that?
Lack of attention. The one thing these dolts can’t stand is to be ignored as the irrelevant cranks they are.
S’probably why they try to screw with people who have, y’know, jobs or an actual conception of reality.
Otherwise he’d gang up with his Nazi friends and boycott the business that doesn’t want to serve him.

Ironic that these folks always seem to embrace Nazism rather than some other extreme ethos. I mean, really ironic. The Nazis I read about and heard about from people who fought them would have called these people ‘useless eaters.’
Or, y’know, useless cake eaters.

Our society is different. We tolerate and accomodate them. Except where their beliefs intrude on someone else’s right to refuse to participate in them.

That, in their estimation, makes us weak or stupid (is there any question about the level of contempt they have for us given they make such a facile argument with this wink-and-nod ‘it’s just a symbol’ bullshit?).
While I strongly resist suppressing any speech, I also believe the law must reflect the practical realities of human interaction and must limit friction by not compelling anyone to participate in specifically incendiary speech.
(I do think some public service speech - more objective news and such - should be aired, and cameras should be in congress - cspan and so forth - but I think it would be an infringement to force the t.v. on or force people to watch it)
Want to say “I like having sex with children” great. I don’t have to write it for you.
I mean, I think the child pornography laws on cartoons are stupid.
Doesn’t mean that a customer should be able to compel an artist to draw some for him if the artist doesn’t want to.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:21 AM on December 16, 2008 [3 favorites]


A customer walks into his local bakery, and approaches the cake decorator, Durn Bronzefist.

Durn: How can I help you today?
Customer: Yes, I need a cake. A big cake. What's the largest you can make?
Durn: Oh, we do specialty cakes for store openings and the like that can be several feet long. Is that what you're looking for?
Customer: Yes, exactly. Price is no object here. Just plain vanilla cake and white icing.
Durn: Yes, sir. And what would you like on the cake?
Customer: I need it to say "Durn Bronzefist is a child molester".
Durn: Ah... sorry?
Customer: "D-u-r-n..."
Durn: I don't think... um... this is for a birthday?
Customer: Big letters, too. At least a foot tall each. Man, you wouldn't believe the problems I've had finding someone to just make a damned cake...
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:48 AM on December 16, 2008 [2 favorites]


If only they could have predicated there would be a downside to naming their child Adolf Hitler...
posted by mazola at 9:19 AM on December 16, 2008


Is there no Downfall version of this... or is too meta/meme finally dead?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2008


Christ, just make the cake out to A.C. Campbell. Shoprite has the right, as a business, to refuse any cake, regardless of the name on the birth certificate.
posted by Eideteker at 10:05 AM on December 16, 2008


err, A.H. Campbell.
posted by Eideteker at 10:05 AM on December 16, 2008


"A.H. Campbell" would make the kid sound about 90.
posted by Artw at 10:40 AM on December 16, 2008


Let them eat strudel.
posted by thinkpiece at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2008


ShopRite to Campbell: I'm sorry, we won't fulfill your order for an Adolph Hitler swastika cake, you'll have to go to Wal Mart for that.

Wal Mart to Campbell: I'm sorry, we won't fulfill your order for the morning after pill, you'll have to go to ShopRite for that.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:09 AM on December 16, 2008 [7 favorites]


Milton, don't be greedy. Let's pass the Hitlercake along and make sure everyone gets a piece.
posted by porn in the woods at 1:20 PM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]


The ratio of Hitler to cake is too big.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:26 PM on December 16, 2008


I'm against naming children after Adolf Hitler, for all the sensible reasons stated above.

Mainly, though, I want cake now.
posted by everichon at 1:34 PM on December 16, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think Durn Bronzefist makes some good points.
But I think the difference - beyond the core of my own argument on not having to provide the platform for speech - between not giving someone the morning after pill and not writing ‘Hitler’ on the cake is not just the level of necessity on the respective items, but to what degree we can impose on each other or to what degree someone can be practically compelled to act.
On the one hand - I can just say, screw it, no more writing on cakes. On the other, you can’t unmake the morning after pill. Perhaps you can refuse to carry it (perhaps - but either way ‘drug stores’ in the U.S. are a morass of laws) but the seller is under no obligation to facilitate anything beyond just selling it, if they carry them.

Now, if they had pre-made Hitlercakes and refused to sell this guy one of them that’d be out of line, not to mention a huge coincidence and massive escalation into a dimension of weirdness I can’t even begin to think about...

...y’know, I’m going to open a cake store and put out Hitlercakes and when someone asks if they can buy one I’m going to yell “No way you fascist.”
Y’know, for the lulz.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:20 PM on December 16, 2008


Well, my workplace filter was not letting me into this thread today and that was probably a good thing. I don't have much to say at this point but I would re-state that I'm working from a familiarity with laws that are similar but not identical to most of you; I tend to try to couch my statements in those terms and would think kindly if you did the same, but I don't hold any particular grudge against those who don't.

Some of the particular statements past Jessamyn and ericb's informative input, however, lead me to believe that some of you are misconstruing your own laws. The "it's just cake", "you can get it elsewhere", "it's a private business so you can do what you want" and "it's just a specific instance so it's not discrimination against a class" all more or less misconstrue what I take to be good information about the system you have going.

To be clear, and I was ready for a knowledgable fellow Canadian to take me to task on my imprecision here -- but I don't want to be inaccurate just because that didn't happen (and if you don't care, you can snooze for a bit here) -- the CHRA also protects certain identifiable vulnerable groups. It does a poor job against the "Marsha" style case, if I can name that after Jessamyn's excellent example. But that's ok, because obviously a policy decision was made that the CHRA is not about protecting people against all forms of discrimination, but only the most systemic. That being said, the CHRA have run a bit wild with it in a way that the courts have decidedly not done with the Charter. As it stand, the courts have identified a few grounds "analogous" to the enumerated grounds in the Charter (eg: sexual orientation) but they are extremely scrupulous about this. (they are somewhat less scrupulous about making reference to "Charter values" but let's not go there) This means that you as the administrator of some service connected to the government (the only time the Charter applies) cannot refuse service to someone, say, on the basis of their sexual orientation. It doesn't have to be life or death, health care or deportation. It can be lunch. It can be a haircut. It doesn't matter that they can get it down the street. It doesn't matter if they personally have or have not suffered as a member of that enumerated group.

The CHRA takes that concept and applies it to private businesses everywhere. They're the ones who decide whether or not your small business can afford to put in that new entrance with the wheelchair ramp (the test there, incidentally, is if doing so would put you out of business -- if it wouldn't, you're doing it). It doesn't matter that the bakery down the street has a wheelchair ramp. It doesn't matter that it's only a loaf of bread, or that you can get home delivery. This is the aforementioned strict interpretation of "participation in society". However, the CHRA is also a bit freer with shoehorning in anyone they want to find in favour of into one of the existing grounds, so some of the semi-random stuff starts to fall in. Don't like brown haired people? That's really racial discrimination! They don't speak the language you prefer? That's discrimination on the basis of ethnicity! (these can both be true, but aren't necessarily) They are also in a state of perpetual reform, and may eventually work themselves around to the true Marshas, but in the meantime, they do just fine applying the enumerated grounds wherever and to whomever they wish.

Just FYI, in case you wanted to know. I'm not saying I agree with our system, or that I agree or disagree with yours. I do think some of you don't have a clear idea what your system actually prohibits, however. I would include your "compulsion to act" in that list, Smedleyman, as Jessamyn's lunch counter example (via the Civil Rights Act) makes clear. Yes, yes, this is not the same thing, but if we're going to pick particular acts and say "you can't make me" well, we should be clear that, yes, sometimes you can.

Sorry for the huge block of text. (and enjoy your cakes, however they be decorated)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:12 PM on December 16, 2008


Hmm, yeah, maybe scratch the "don't have much to say" part. I decided after I started that I'd best clarify the Canadian position for those who are still scratching their heads over the difference or didn't realize there was one.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:13 PM on December 16, 2008


So in Canadas I can or can't demand Hitlercake?
posted by Artw at 3:16 PM on December 16, 2008


I seriously think the Hitlercake people would scream "political opinion" while the cake people would scream "hate speech" and in true Canadian court fashion, it would be decided on something nobody even addressed, like the misspelling of "Heil" or something.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:19 PM on December 16, 2008


Oh and finally, GhostintheMachine, you must know I thought you were going for a giant vanilla-icing-coated penis cake there.

Why must you so disappoint me?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:21 PM on December 16, 2008


Durn: Thanks for the reminder. I really should get around to installing that ramp in front of my trampoline store.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:43 PM on December 16, 2008


Happy Birthday, Adolf
A Short Play

Lights Up
TEACHER: All right, class, today we learn about World War II.
CHILDREN: Ohhhhh.
ANNE: But Mrs. Lumberger, today is Adolf's birthday. Can't we have a party instead?
TEACHER: Now, we haven't had a birthday party for any other student, so why should we have one for Adolf.
ADOLF: That's ok, everyone! I'm happy to do whatever Mrs. Lumberger wants.
ANNE: Mrs. Lumberger, I need to talk to you. Its urgent.
TEACHER: My goodness, Ms. Frank, you certainly are the pip today. Fine, what?
ANNE: In private.
TEACHER: Fine. In to my office.

They go to her office

TEACHER: Now, what is so important that you had to interrupt class?
ANNE: Its about Adolf.
TEACHER: What about Adolf?
ANNE: He doesn't know.
TEACHER: Doesn't know what?
ANNE: Doesn't know about Adolf Hitler. The famous one.
TEACHER: What? How?
ANNE: Well, his parents never told him and he's such a nice kid none of us ever had the heart to tell him.
TEACHER: None of you ever made fun of him?
ANNE: Well, Benny tried to a few years back, but some of the older kids made him shut up. We all like Addy, so we try to look out for him.
TEACHER: He can't go his whole life without knowing about the real Adolf Hitler.
ANNE: Yeah, but does he have to find out on his birthday? His birthday, Mrs. Lumberger.
TEACHER: ...

Anne's lower lip quivers with emotion

TEACHER: Fine.
ANNE: You're the best, Mrs. Lumberger.

Anne and Teacher return to the class

TEACHER: Uh... we won't be discussing World War II today because... uh...
ANNE: We wanted to surprise Addy!

She pulls a birthday cake out of a paper bag beneath her seat.

ANNE: Happy Birthday, Adolf!

The children sing

TEACHER: Where did you find a bakery that was willing to write "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler" on a cake?
ANNE: It wasn't easy, I'll tell you that.
ADOLF: Yay! The cake of my dreams!

THE END

posted by Joey Michaels at 3:45 PM on December 16, 2008 [4 favorites]


I really should get around to installing that ramp...
posted by evidenceofabsence

*CHRT muses* "hmmmm..."
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:46 PM on December 16, 2008


It occurs to me that the parents should change their own names, rather than give their children bad names, if it's so damn important for them to make a statement of their beliefs.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:25 PM on December 16, 2008


You know, my daughter has had eight birthdays now and we have never put her full name on a cake.
posted by Sailormom at 6:25 PM on December 16, 2008


So in Canadas I can or can't demand Hitlercake?

Yes, but in Quebec it would have to read:

Bonne Fete, Hitler!
Happy Birthday, Hitler!
Speaking as a former Canadian pie decorator who plays by his own rules*, I would refuse to do it.

*They made me turn in my piping bag and name tag because I was too much of a lose cannon.

Also I was stealing steaks from the freezer.

posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:22 PM on December 16, 2008 [5 favorites]


Why don't they just buy a plain cake and some Supercook writing icing? It comes in Nazi Red, Yellow Star or Flesh Pink.
posted by mippy at 5:30 AM on December 17, 2008


When I was in high school, the music program gave an award to the senior who was most active in all three subsets: band, choir, and orchestra. I thought it was really cool that they singled me out for recognition, but I never mentioned the Arion Award in any college interviews.

"No, no, with an "I"! You know, the one from Lesbos? Played with the dolphins?... No?"
posted by lauranesson at 7:47 AM on December 17, 2008 [1 favorite]


Somewhere in Argentina, Adolf is shedding a single tear.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:15 AM on December 17, 2008


"No, no, with an "I"! You know, the one from Lesbos? Played with the dolphins?... No?"

Man, my high school just wasn't progressive enough to give out lesbian awards I guess.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:19 AM on December 17, 2008


This thread made me realize that I need to use the word "Hitlercakes" more often.
posted by fermezporte at 6:33 PM on December 17, 2008


Family Services repossess the children.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:36 PM on January 13, 2009


The followup MetaTalk continues the story.
posted by Pronoiac at 9:52 AM on January 14, 2009


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