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	<title>Comments on: The Lackawanna Cut-Off</title>
	<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff/</link>
	<description>Comments on MetaFilter post The Lackawanna Cut-Off</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:59:20 -0800</pubDate>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:59:20 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>The Lackawanna Cut-Off</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;A glance will show / Why Phoebe Snow / Prefers this route / To Buffalo.&lt;br&gt;
And Phoebe&apos;s right / No route is quite / As short as Road / of Anthracite.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;

In 1908 the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad began work on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://history.gsmrrclub.org/history5.html&quot;&gt;New Jersey Cut-Off&lt;/a&gt; to make its New York to Buffalo mainline (the Road of Anthracite &lt;a href=&quot;http://small-leavedshamrock.blogspot.com/2008/07/hard-black-coal-and-lady-in-white.html&quot;&gt;so liked&lt;/a&gt; by &lt;a href=&quot;http://tourmarm.blogspot.com/2007/02/wordless-wednesday-answer-4-phoebe-snow.html&quot;&gt;Phoebe&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/200602/msg00370.html&quot;&gt;Snow&lt;/a&gt;) even shorter and faster. It was to have no grade crossings, and was to be as straight and level as possible &#8212; through hilly terrain. The 28-mile &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lackawanna_Cut-Off&quot;&gt;Lackawanna Cut-Off&lt;/a&gt;, as it is now known, was built over three years, cost $11 million, and was an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/bldg/dlw-cutoff.html&quot;&gt;engineering marvel&lt;/a&gt; of massive reinforced concrete bridges, enormous cuts, and the largest railroad embankment in the world. All of this has been &lt;a href=&quot;http://modelengineers.org/cutoff.htm&quot;&gt;abandoned&lt;/a&gt; for years, though there are plans afoot to restore the Cut-Off for &lt;a href=&quot;http://ridingmytrain.blogspot.com/2008/12/fast-track-lackawanna-cutoff.html&quot;&gt;commuter rail&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All 73 bridges and culverts on the Lackawanna Cut-Off were made entirely of concrete. The route shaved 11 miles off the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoboken_Terminal&quot;&gt;New York City&lt;/a&gt; to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/forgottenbuffalolost/thedlwterminal.html&quot;&gt;Buffalo&lt;/a&gt; trip, with a maximum grade of 0.6% and total height fluctuation of only 11 feet.

The two big bridges: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bridgemeister.com/pic.php?pid=1873&quot;&gt;Delaware&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/hhh.pa3751&quot;&gt;Viaduct&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://history.gsmrrclub.org/history5i.html&quot;&gt;Paulin&apos;s Kill Viaduct&lt;/a&gt;. Can you spot the Cut-Off on a &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&amp;ll=40.979056,-74.755526&amp;spn=0.046201,0.077248&amp;t=p&amp;z=14&quot;&gt;terrain map&lt;/a&gt;? (That&apos;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://history.gsmrrclub.org/history5e.html&quot;&gt;Pequest Fill&lt;/a&gt;.)

The &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware,_Lackawanna_and_Western_Railroad&quot;&gt;DL&amp;amp;W&lt;/a&gt; followed up with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thesummit-tearoom.com/History.html&quot;&gt;Summit&lt;/a&gt; Cut-Off in Pennsylvania, building two more huge concrete bridges &#8212; the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.historicbridges.org/pennsylvania/martinscreek/index.htm&quot;&gt;Martin&apos;s Creek Viaduct&lt;/a&gt; and the rather more impressive &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.historicbridges.org/pennsylvania/tunkhannock/index.htm&quot;&gt;Tunkhannock&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/hhh.pa1629&quot;&gt;Viaduct&lt;/a&gt;, which is possibly the largest one to date.

The New York Times ran &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B00E4D91E31E233A25755C1A9649D946096D6CF&quot;&gt;stories&lt;/a&gt; on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A0DE0DF113CE733A25754C0A9679D946496D6CF&quot;&gt;completions&lt;/a&gt; of the two cut-offs. There is some more information about the construction &lt;a href=&quot;http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r112.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. You can also read a bit about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.landingnewjersey.com/portmorris2.htm&quot;&gt;working on the Lackawanna&lt;/a&gt; Railroad.

The beginning of the end for the DL&amp;amp;W was the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/199807/msg00127.html&quot;&gt;destruction&lt;/a&gt; unleashed by Hurricane Diane in 1955. The rails on the Lackawanna Cut-Off were removed in the 1980s; the Summit Cut-Off still survives with one track in service. Naturally people explore the abandoned &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lostdestinations.com/paulin.htm&quot;&gt;Paulin&apos;s Kill Viaduct&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mountainsanatorium.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=newjersey;action=display;num=1155847323&quot;&gt;other portions&lt;/a&gt;. If you&apos;re ever in northwest New Jersey, you can &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.njskylands.com/hscutoff.htm&quot;&gt;tour the Lackawanna Cut-Off&lt;/a&gt;. As for the Summit Cut-Off, you can see much of it from U.S. 11 north of Scranton, which follows the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.undergroundminers.com/factoryvilletunnel.html&quot;&gt;old alignment&lt;/a&gt;. See also &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamtown_National_Historic_Site&quot;&gt;Steamtown&lt;/a&gt; in Scranton.</description>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:35:36 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>parudox</dc:creator>		<category>history</category>		<category>railroad</category>		<category>railway</category>		<category>trains</category>		<category>dlw</category>		<category>lackawanna</category>		<category>cutoff</category>		<category>concrete</category>		<category>abandoned</category>		<category>engineering</category>		<category>bridges</category>		<category>massive</category>		<category>construction</category>		<category>phoebesnow</category>		<category>advertising</category>		<category>postcards</category>		<category>anthracite</category>		<category>newjersey</category>		<category>pennsylvania</category>		<category>buffalo</category>
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		<title>By: Rafaelloello</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388850</link>	
		<description>Great Post.   I&apos;ve spent a lot of time researching the NJ cutoff, it runs right through Blairstown where my in-laws live.  Coincidentally, I&apos;m planning on hiking the cutoff from Blairstown  to the Paulin&apos;s Kill Viaduct this weekend.  I&apos;m particularly interested in seeing the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lostinjersey.com/tunnels/icetunnel.html&quot;&gt;Roseville Tunnel&lt;/a&gt; some day.

A lot more good NJ cut-off stuff at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mountainsanatorium.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=newjersey;action=display;num=1155847323&quot;&gt;MountainSanitorium.net&lt;/a&gt;

For those who know the appreciable mountains of NW NJ, It&apos;s absolutely amazing that they could build a zero grade RR bed through this area at the time they did it and so quickly.  The Roseville Tunnel was originally supposed to be a cut instead of a tunnel(they didn&apos;t want any tunnels on the cutoff), but the engineers and geologists determined that the cut would be so deep and the rock was so brittle that the walls of the cut might collapse onto the tracks, so they opted for a tunnel instead.  There is truly a ton of rich history here, and not just for RR buffs (which I definitely am not).</description>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:59:20 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rafaelloello</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: cashman</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388853</link>	
		<description>Awww man.  Excellent post, but I thought it was a different Phoebe Snow.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-SFzCzohrA&quot;&gt;Don&apos;t let me down&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:06:09 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>cashman</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Kadin2048</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388865</link>	
		<description>Awesome post.

There were lots of these &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Line_Railroad&quot;&gt;direct-route or &quot;air line&quot; railroads &lt;/a&gt;built around the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, representing sort of the last great railroad build-out, which unfortunately have not been well maintained &#8212; despite the fact that they&apos;re much more desirable today than many less-direct &quot;milk run&quot; routes used for freight and local passenger service.

Up in CT, there was formerly a route called the &quot;New York and Boston Air Line&quot; running across the state from southwest to northeast, built at great cost and expense to minimize crossings, turns, and grades.  Although not quite on the same scale as the Lackawanna Cutoff, it&apos;s still pretty amazing: a ruler-straight line running over, under, or through whatever happened to be in its way.

Some parts of it are still around as rail trails, but I suspect development would make it difficult to reopen.  Which is too bad, because it would dramatically shorten a NY/Boston trip by rail.  (Today if you take Amtrak north out of NYC, with the exception of an old freight line up the West Side that still carries occasional service to Albany, your only option is to go up through New Haven and then follow the shore, then go up through Rhode Island in order to get to Boston.  I suspect the Air Line route would probably cut an hour off the trip, beating every other mode of transportation save perhaps private helicopter.)

The kind of rail system we desperately need now &#8212; high speed inter-city trains that can provide an alternative to the fragile air-travel network and complement regional commuter service &#8212; &lt;i&gt;almost&lt;/i&gt; existed nearly a century ago.  It was the Depression, in my view, that really put a halt to it, leaving many ambitious lines unfinished and some finished ones bankrupt or unable to turn a profit.</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.77716-2388865</guid>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:46:26 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kadin2048</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: PeterMcDermott</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388876</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It was the Depression, in my view, that really put a halt to it.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, presumably the lack of a national transport policy that emphasizes getting people out of their cars and into public transport has something to do with it as well.

It&apos;s not that hard to make public transport work, and work well. But someone&apos;s really got to want to do it. America has too many people making too much money keeping people *off* public transport and stuck in private cars go give much of a shit about that kind of change.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:28:39 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PeterMcDermott</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: zippy</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388880</link>	
		<description>Interesting writeup of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.cthome.net/mbartel/ARRhistory.htm&quot;&gt;New York to Boston Air Line&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 03:01:51 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>zippy</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388890</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Well, presumably the lack of a national transport policy that emphasizes getting people out of their cars and into public transport has something to do with it as well.&lt;/em&gt;

That lack was answered by a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy&quot;&gt;corporate national  transport policy &lt;/a&gt;that emphasized the exact opposite.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 03:32:53 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Malor</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388901</link>	
		<description>cashman: interestingly, that Phoebe Snow took her name from the locomotive -- which took its name from the advertising icon.  So, indirectly, it IS about Phoebe Snow, the singer. :)</description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">comment:www.metafilter.com,2008:site.77716-2388901</guid>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 04:44:55 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Malor</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: johnjreiser</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388906</link>	
		<description>New Jersey Transit&apos;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=Project019To&quot;&gt;project page&lt;/a&gt;.

The State of NJ, in its wisdom, neglected to purchase the alignment from Conrail. Jerry Turco (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/200503/msg00137.html&quot;&gt;who passed away in 2003&lt;/a&gt;) purchase part of the alignment and planned to cart away some of the fill and fill in cuts with industrial waste. Only after that plan was unveiled did the State move to purchase parts of the corridor.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 05:17:15 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>johnjreiser</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: stbalbach</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388930</link>	
		<description>It would make an astounding Rales-to-Trails.

I&apos;m not sure I buy Wikipedia&apos;s claim that is it comparable to the building of the Panama Canal. Perhaps on some mathematical metric of sqft earth moved or something but the conditions were very different. It is curious though how between the canals of the 19th century, the rail embankment &quot;fills&quot; of the early 20th, and all the coal mining, there has been a lot of digging in the region.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:21:46 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>stbalbach</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: dunkadunc</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388948</link>	
		<description>Man, screw Rails-to-Trails.
I grew up in rural Maine, in the Ellsworth area. Back in the day, they used to have passenger rail service from Ellsworth up to Bangor, and then on to points north and south from there, not to mention the Ellsworth-Machias line.
They stopped all that in the mid-sixties, and cut off freight service maybe twenty years later.

Now, Ellsworth is at the traffic-laden chokepoint for Acadia National Park, and it&apos;s the typical exurban wasteland, with strip malls, a Super Wal-Mart, and not much else. Town planning has laid car traffic ahead of everything else, even as it&apos;s becoming pretty clear that things won&apos;t always work like that in the future.

Now back to the railroad. A private company will be fixing up some of the line between Ellsworth and Dedham, halfway to Bangor, and will be offering &quot;train tours&quot; in the summertime. It&apos;s still not public transportation, but at least they&apos;re using the rails for something and maybe we could get a year-round Ellsworth-Bangor line in the future.
But the Machias line? Currently, Machias is a college town up the coast, and if you want to do anything, you have to have a car, and drive it 70 miles down to Ellsworth- and even then you&apos;ll probably have to drive up to Bangor from there. And what are they doing with the Machias line?

They&apos;re doing a Rails-to-Trails, tearing up the tracks and putting the roadbed in perpetual trust as a bike trail. They&apos;re shooting themselves in the foot and passing up on the opportunity to run a train to Machias- ever. All that infrastructure, that could be used in the future when it just gets too expensive to drive the massive distances in Maine, is being thrown away.

Screw Rails-to-Trails.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:48:22 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>dunkadunc</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: octothorpe</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388985</link>	
		<description>Cool post.  My Grandfather worked as a conductor on the D.L.&amp;amp;W. (Delay, Linger and Wait) for thirty years as a conductor.   I&apos;m sure that he&apos;d be horrified to see the state of rail in this country today.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:53:07 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>octothorpe</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Kirth Gerson</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388987</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Screw Rails-to-Trails.&lt;/em&gt;

Seconded. The same thing happened where I grew up. There&apos;s still public transit, but it&apos;s buses - worse environmentally, more subject to weather, completely at the mercy of the same traffic that makes driving a pain, and it goes to fewer places than the rail system did. On the other hand, during the warm months, people get to ride their bikes without worrying about cars. For me, that&apos;s not a win-win.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:55:15 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kirth Gerson</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: dunkadunc</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2388996</link>	
		<description>&lt;em&gt;On the other hand, during the warm months, people get to ride their bikes without worrying about cars. &lt;/em&gt;

And furthermore, most of the people riding their bikes on the old Machias line are going to be tourists, while people who actually need to go to work or the store are stuck driving their cars. There&apos;s a bus system but it&apos;s only in the summertime and the routes are completely designed around the needs of tourists.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 08:23:06 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>dunkadunc</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: jokeefe</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2389044</link>	
		<description>Fantastic. Does anyone else hear Emily Dickinson in the Phoebe Snow verse? Like this:

And Phoebe&apos;s right---No route is quite--
As short as Road--
of Anthracite--

I&apos;m looking forward to exploring this post, thank you.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:12:27 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jokeefe</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: featherboa</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2389210</link>	
		<description>This is fascinating - I grew up with a Phoebe Snow tin enamel advertisement on my bedroom wall (my dad being both an advertising man and a railway enthusiast).  Living in the UK it was pretty baffling, but I can still quote the rhyme from my ad: &quot;Phoebe Snow, Dressed in White, Rides the Road of Anthracite&quot;.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:06:54 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>featherboa</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: wierdo</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2389410</link>	
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Man, screw Rails-to-Trails.&lt;/i&gt;

I guess if you didn&apos;t want the ability to reclaim railbeds for later reuse for railroading it might be nice to screw rails-to-trails.

It isn&apos;t RTT that makes a rail line go away, it&apos;s the lack of business for the private owner.</description>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:01:10 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>wierdo</dc:creator>
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		<title>By: Spatch</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77716/The-Lackawanna-CutOff#2389478</link>	
		<description>As far as railroad 
Mascots go
I do adore
Miss Phoebe Snow

But my heart goes to
One not so dressy:
America&apos;s Sleepheart,
The kitten &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chessie_(railroad_mascot)&quot;&gt;Chessie&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:36:18 -0800</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Spatch</dc:creator>
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