Comments on: Ricin scare in Seattle

Ricin scare in Seattle

josher71 — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:07:46 -0800

Seattle area gay bars received a very strange and threatening letter yesterday. Dan Savage believes it might have been sent by a gay person. Here is Savage's first post about the letter.

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:20:04 -0800

And a British gay man, no less.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:22:11 -0800

Apparently a fat British gay man, according to Savage's commenters. Lord knows they can't be happy.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:24:00 -0800

Andrew Sullivan?

By: stet

stet — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:26:12 -0800

My money's on Orson Scott Card.

By: DU

DU — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:27:10 -0800

I see a lot of hat being hung on not much hook. I like the zoomy letter interface, though.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:27:20 -0800

stet writes "My money's on Orson Scott Card." No, no, it's a fat British gay man. Card's not British.

By: aliceinreality

aliceinreality — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:27:55 -0800

Wow, this is the weird threat. Savage is right about it being strangely lacking in reasons for the attack. The range suggests homophobia more than "disillusionment with the gay bar scene" to me, though. Then again, I am not a gay man (IANAGM?), so YMMV.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:35:36 -0800

I have always had time on my side. Mick?

By: eriko

eriko — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:37:08 -0800

"approximately 67 grams?" That's odd phrasing for someone who didn't have any scientific training. You'd expect ounces, and if it was approximate, why not 70 grams, rather than 67? That's also a fairly scary amount. A quick search shows that LD50 Inhaled is 3-5mg/kg, so that's roughly 200 fatal doses, assuming 65kg a person and the high end of that range, but that's perfect distribution. I've seen documents purporting LD50 doses in the microgram range, but they also claim that it's one of the most lethal substances out there, along with plutonium, which is just wrong, so I'm discounting that data as "utterly bogus." So, yeah, if the writer in fact had that much ricin, he could make life less than fun.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:37:22 -0800

Irma.

By: Asparagirl

Asparagirl — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:39:55 -0800

Not only is the writer probably British, but he's probably old-school educated, too: he correctly writes "11" as a numeral and "five" as a word, which basically only copywriters do these days.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:41:21 -0800

Have there been any cases where a person or organization has warned about a specific attack like this, without any demands, and actually attempted to go through with it? I have heard that terrorist groups have announced that they were going to kill a specific person on a specific day if demands were not met, and that serial killers sometimes send the police or media clues, but I can't think of anyone announcing and then doing something like this.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:41:47 -0800

So, it's true about British boarding schools, then?

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:43:00 -0800

Is "clients" for "patrons" or "customers" also a Britishism? It seemed like a very odd reference to me, especially in lieu of derogatory terms for the intended victims.

By: mudpuppie

mudpuppie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:44:06 -0800

I'm glad we gay people have Dan Savage. Not only can he speak for us all and teach us what's right and wrong in the bedroom, but he can also solve all the Big Gay Mysteries from his editorial desk! Where would we be without you, Dan Savage??? Is there *anything* you don't know about the homo world? *swoon* **puke**

By: proj

proj — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:45:07 -0800

Good old Dan Savage. Sex columnist, political commentator, psychological profiler! CSI: Capitol Hill can't be far behind.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:46:35 -0800

First comment out of the gate on Savage's post ... "Closeted, fat male." and "perhaps a fat gay male." And I just got told last night, from a photographer I'm working with apropos of nothing, "You know, you could be really cute with bigger arms." And now I don't think I'm going to go outside today. Or ever again. Thank you.

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:52:39 -0800

I don't know about ricin, but the spelling and grammatical errors on this sign are awesome.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:52:51 -0800

Don't feel bad, whelk, one night in a bar that apparently was once owned by Al Qaeda, I was told by a very drunk woman that I needed to have my eyebrows waxed. Of course later that evening she also danced on the bar and then offered to trade me her dress for the Partridge Family t-shirt I was wearing, so she may not have been the best judge of anything.

By: dios

dios — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:57:20 -0800

This could have been a round-up post. You know who else got a threat earlier this week? Pendleton High on Lockdown After Bomb Threat And it didn't stop there! False bomb threat at the Duarte Wal-Mart. Things are getting cooky, I tell ya. Even Katie Holmes is getting death threats!

By: applemeat

applemeat — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:05:33 -0800

I'm with you, Mudpuppy. Dan Savage has become a tedious, unfunny know-it-all. The Dave Barry of buttseks. ...Plus, my 65 year old mom now knows what teabagging is. And wants to bring it up with me in conversation. THANKS DAN!

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:05:58 -0800

Man. How bored would you have to be to bother killing Katie Holmes?

By: Damn That Television

Damn That Television — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:06:09 -0800

Ah, gay people blaming fat people.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:06:11 -0800

I think he's just sick of the music they play at gay clubs. Honestly, whatever it's faults, the music in the leather bars in Cruising was awesome. Gay bars nowadays? Just the endless drone of wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN occasionally punctuated by some abomination from some mediocre celebrity that the gay community has embraced.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:07:28 -0800

This is why I, as a straight man, have stopped going to gay bars, even though they offer me a brief and much needed respite from the endless and unwanted advances of heterosexual women on the prowl.

By: Avenger

Avenger — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:10:29 -0800

Dan Savage is a one-man gay crime-fighting duo.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:11:14 -0800

"The police have already come and gone," said Roland, the manager at Madison Pub. "They collected the letter and that's about it."

There's your British guy, I betcha.

By: COBRA!

COBRA! — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:11:48 -0800

A few years ago, some scary dudes from Detroit were threatening nuclear war against gay bars. At least against their dance floors.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:12:35 -0800

They want to put WHAT in me?

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:14:14 -0800

Ric

By: Avenger

Avenger — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:15:35 -0800

I think he's just sick of the music they play at gay clubs. Well, to be fair, I was at the Bonham Exchange (pronounced "Bottom Exchange") for New Years Eve and they have a whole Hip/Hop floor, so instead of the WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP Madonna remix you can listen to some of the BHOOMP BHOOMP BHOOMP Shake Dat Azz remix. And music in straight bars isn't that much better anyway.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:16:30 -0800

I once put Black Sabbath on the jukebox in a gay bar. The patrons seemed to enjoy it.

By: dersins

dersins — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:18:19 -0800

So, is there a gay bar in that area that DIDN'T get threatened with random customer deaths? One that happens to be owned or managed by a Brit? One whose ownership might be concerned about declining revenues in a declining economy? Just curious, really.

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:19:00 -0800

I once put Black Sabbath on the jukebox in a gay bar. The patrons seemed to enjoy it. Was it "Fairies Wear Boots"?

By: binturong

binturong — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:22:50 -0800

Not only is the writer probably British, but he's probably old-school educated, too He even uses a semicolon! "I have always had time on my side." Dr. Who?

By: applemeat

applemeat — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:25:33 -0800

I once put Black Sabbath on the jukebox in a gay bar. The patrons seemed to enjoy it. Well it was on the bar's jukebox.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:26:03 -0800

He's left-handed, one-legged, and keeps an albino armadillo named Kevin in his pantry. But the best laid plans of ricin men gang aft teh ghey.

By: filthy light thief

filthy light thief — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:29:15 -0800

If he really didn't like the music, wouldn't he just hang the dj? And I'm not suggesting Morrissey is involved. He's forgiven Jesus, so everything's groovy with that Brit.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:30:24 -0800

I think he's just sick of the music they play at gay clubs. Honestly, whatever it's faults, the music in the leather bars in Cruising was awesome. Gay bars nowadays? Just the endless drone of wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN wuhhn wuhhn wuhhn WUHHN WUUHN WUHHN occasionally punctuated by some abomination from some mediocre celebrity that the gay community has embraced. Does the bar have a jukebox? One of the fancy new internet enabled ones? Then you do this. You order a drink, you go to the jukebox and you proceed to put in at least 10 dollars. American. Yes I know it's more than you'll pay for your round, but atmosphere is important. Learn how to use the abuse the search functions and go. nuts. Let the Drifters and the Dresden Dolls lie down with the Ultra Lounge Collection. Rufus Wainright goes down well with Cole Porter, Nancy Sinatra and Mic Jagger can be friends! Johnny Cash and Wanda Jackson are good leads into the Ventures who are good leads to They Might Be Giants. Your audience will be greatful. and maybe actually playing decent music will keep the bloody things in business. In my neighborhood, 4 of my favorite bars, not just gay bars, have vanished in the last year, 2 in the last month. The crowd at my local is a mostly older (sometimes much older) sort of man and I think (hope) they enjoy my All-Italian-American Crooner nights since the new bartender seems to think that blasting techno is just what the retirement crowd wants. /pettyrant

By: filthy light thief

filthy light thief — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:31:56 -0800

The local Irish pub has a jukebox full of weird stuff, but the bartenders have the ability to switch songs whenever they like, and often do. Sometimes jukeboxes have music that no one really likes.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:32:05 -0800

I once put Black Sabbath on the jukebox in a gay bar. The patrons seemed to enjoy it. Everyone under 58 loves Black Sabbath. It is a law.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:32:33 -0800

Well it was on the bar's jukebox. It was one of those online jukeboxes where you can play just about anything.

By: joecacti

joecacti — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:34:11 -0800

The writer quotes from this poem...

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:39:47 -0800

You order a drink, you go to the jukebox and you proceed to put in at least 10 dollars. American. Wait, I have a story about that. It doesn't end well. Well, I mean, it does, in that we all got to hear some Dio. But still. (Was I drunk at noon when I typed that comment, though? Wow.)

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:43:32 -0800

It is important to be a Benevolent Dictator of rock, something for everyone. If someone is determined to usurp, you must allow allow them, to do otherwise would not be noble.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:44:39 -0800

From the stranger article: One of the bar owners notes, "But after the initial 'what?', it's like whatever." This is a baffling attitude.

By: topynate

topynate — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:46:27 -0800

He even uses a semicolon! Incorrectly; though.

By: troubles

troubles — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:47:29 -0800

Wow, good call on the Mark Doty poem, joecati. I don't know if it means anything to quote from a gay poet...but, well, it adds another layer for sure.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:50:27 -0800

that and the poem is fucking creepy in this new light: forward, heedless of stasis. They don’t care they’re dead and nearly frozen, just as, presumably, they didn’t care that they were living: all, all for all, the rainbowed school and its acres of brilliant classrooms, in which no verb is singular, or every one is. How happy they seem, even on ice, to be together, selfless, which is the price of gleaming. It's like a Dennis Cooper novel all of a sudden.

By: kryptondog

kryptondog — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:59:51 -0800

As a fat embittered gay anglophile, I'd just like to say... it was me. kidding. about the letter.

By: terranova

terranova — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:05:12 -0800

Older ("I have always had time on my side"), male (men's gay bars), gay (Mark Doty poem), educated (punctuation, spelling, sentence structure) attention whore. Unlike psychopaths who write after crimes to boast, prove their involvement, and attempt to elicit awe and respect, RicinMan is announcing where, when, and how (55 victims on a Saturday in January, by ricin). Surely, he realizes this will markedly decrease his ability to execute his crimes -- if he intended to commit them at all. What might his goals be? Harming the bars' business, terrifying patrons, feeling momentarily all-powerful, receiving massive attention, avenging rejection, and being heard. Savage might be spot-on.

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:12:41 -0800

I like how we automatically rule out religious crazies based on erudition. Also, apparently well-written heterosexual atheists.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:15:03 -0800

I'm finding this story a little hard to believe. Those gay bar names are not very good (or bad) innuendos. Come on gays of Seattle! No Rawhide? No Good Friends? No Phase Two? No Jaded? The best you can do is Re-bar and The Cuff? At least Purr and Neighbors have some hope.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:15:16 -0800

"Time Is on My Side" was used as a leitmotiv in the 1998 thriller Fallen.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:17:25 -0800

I get the British(/Canadian?), I sort of get the white, but what leads people to believe he is fat?

By: vsync

vsync — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:20:21 -0800

boo_radley:

One of the bar owners notes, "But after the initial 'what?', it's like whatever." This is a baffling attitude.

"...just as, presumably, they didn't care that they were living..."

By: rusty

rusty — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:20:57 -0800

I don't know if it means anything to quote from a gay poet I'm gonna shinny way out on a limb here and say yes, it does mean something.

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:33:14 -0800

Hopefully not the last usage of the ricin' tag.

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:35:21 -0800

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:36:44 -0800

You don't have to be edumacated to hate ending a sentance with a perposition!

By: Craig

Craig — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:40:23 -0800

These letters are ridiculous but the potential to damage gay businesses is not. I will personally do my part to drink as many long islands and suck as many cocks as it takes to make sure this weekend goes smoothly!

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:41:34 -0800

jonp72 writes "The use of 'with which' also suggests somebody bending over backwards" Homophobe!

By: Nelson

Nelson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:46:42 -0800

"approximately 67 grams?" That's odd phrasing for someone who didn't have any scientific training. You'd expect ounces, and if it was approximate Oh but Tina loves metric. People into crystal meth are quite comfortable working with precise quantities of grams.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:47:03 -0800

The you's of 'with witch' also suggests sum buddy bending over back words Homophonophobe!

By: kryptondog

kryptondog — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:53:28 -0800

I like how we automatically rule out religious crazies based on erudition. Also, apparently well-written heterosexual atheists. This struck me as well reading the news article and Savage's posts. The religious wackos get all the press but surely there's plenty of secular homophobes out there; to presume that the author might be gay strictly because he doesn't invoke god or use slurs seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:55:24 -0800

[Savage] said that if the threat were designed to ruin business for gay bars, it may backfire. Staffers from The Stranger made a point of visiting gay bars Tuesday night to show their support, he said, and others may be inspired to do the same. Can you imagine how different our foreign and domestic policy would be if our legislation responded similarly to other terrorist threats or attacks?

By: inigo2

inigo2 — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:58:52 -0800

You don't have to be edumacated to hate ending a sentance with a perposition! This man knows what he speaks of.

By: maxwelton

maxwelton — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:59:50 -0800

Is meth a huge problem in the world of gay men, as opposed to another drug?

By: mudpuppie

mudpuppie — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:02:22 -0800

You know, it just occurred to me.... DAN SAVAGE DID IT. No, seriously, it's perfect. He gets PR, homophobia gets PR, and in the end, he's going to teach us a lesson about something. Plus, you know, 'five' and '11' prove it, since he's a writer and all. The fat thing is just a red herring. He's a sneaky one. Mark my words.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:05:00 -0800

*puts out APB for a fat red herring. with sour cream*

By: roll truck roll

roll truck roll — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:10:22 -0800

Yeah, reading the Doty poem... Clearly the guy is just very sad and jealous of all the happy little gay boys. I can see how he could simultaneously get that poem and get it all wrong.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:13:02 -0800

You know, it just occurred to me.... DAN SAVAGE DID IT. No, seriously, it's perfect. He gets PR, homophobia gets PR, and in the end, he's going to teach us a lesson about something. Plus, you know, 'five' and '11' prove it, since he's a writer and all. Somewhere, Chuck Palahniuk is powering up his Macbook.

By: threeturtles

threeturtles — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:13:04 -0800

I don't know why people are saying the person is obviously educated. "This is your warning for which nothing can prevent me" is not exactly stellar English. I think the letter reads like someone trying too hard to use correct spelling and grammar and falling just short. Same with the semicolon.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:15:52 -0800

Somewhere, Chuck Palahniuk is powering up his Macbook. At the Famous Indie Bookstore where I work, Palahniuk did a signing up in the rare book room for paying guests for charity. His handlers left us employees a schwag pile which included about 3 dozen cardboard bookmarks tasseled with....anal beads.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:16:26 -0800

*puts out APB for a fat red herring. with sour cream* Lutefisk? Try Ballard.

By: penduluum

penduluum — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:19:23 -0800

Very good find on the poem. The writer is educated but not as smart as he thinks he is: the semicolon misused, the comma after "No doubt", "amount of exposure", "warning for which". That en dash should be an em dash. All the diction seems a little overwrought. Like somebody obsessed with his own idea of himself as a genius villain. I hope it all turns out okay, and nobody gets hurt.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:24:46 -0800

I like how we automatically rule out religious crazies based on erudition. I think most of us are buying into what Savage points out - that the writer never says thing one about God or religion. I'm not saying it's a given or anything, but the religious crazies I've had to deal with over the years have pretty much always brought God into play early and often. I don't imagine the "God hates fags" crowd is that much different from the "God hates whatever it is you're doing over here because it looks like you might be enjoying yourself" crowd, but as has been said before, I'm not gay so YMMV.

By: nomisxid

nomisxid — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:26:59 -0800

Is meth a huge problem in the world of gay men, as opposed to another drug? yes, it is.

By: Ian A.T.

Ian A.T. — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:32:22 -0800

he correctly writes "11" as a numeral and "five" as a word, which basically only copywriters do these days And we can narrow it down even further, and rule out any writer who follows the Chicago Manual of Style, as they would have actually written both as words. (See 8.3: "Whole numbers one through ninety-nine [are spelled out in ordinary text.]")

By: yazi

yazi — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:37:45 -0800

I'm glad the posters are showing an appropriate disdain for things Seattlesque. It is a big yawn, the nite club scenes are a big yawn, Savage and the vulgar "Seattle Weekly" are a big yawn. I'm getting sleepy, but may not be able to fall asleep... the whimpering and mooing is so loud.

By: Sova

Sova — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:48:35 -0800

On the British thing: they tend to spell it gramme. So no luck there. Also, his letter layout isn't at all like British standards. Schoolchildren are taught to include the sender's address in the top right corner, and sign their name at the bottom. Also, the use of 'Attn:' and the general tone of the letter is rather rude and abrupt. Here's a rewrite, with a politeness to be expected of a gentleman: To Whom It May Concern, Re: Homophobic killing spree, scheduled for late January. I am sorry to inform you that your drinking establishment has come into my purview for a planned reduction in clientele. I am in possession of approximately 67 grammes of ricin with which I intend to put a surcease to the lives of at least five of your customers. They shall be chosen, shall we say, au hasard? I'm awfully sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you, either now or in the future. I also would like to apologise for any loss of revenue above and beyond that of the five people who will unfortunately no longer be able to imbibe alcohol at your public house. I dare say that you may consider my intentions awfully unreasonable, but I found the abandon with which the oeuvre of Black Sabbath was removed from the jukebox exasperating. How difficult can it be to provide an acceptable ambience for all of your clients, no matter what their taste in music? I hope my actions will in no way prejudice my patronage of your establishment in the future. Yours sincerely, S- F- Esq.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:50:39 -0800

I also would like to apologise for any loss of revenue above and beyond that of the five people who will unfortunately no longer be able to imbibe alcohol at your public house. It's Canadians that apologise for everything, not the British.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:53:54 -0800

I like how Savage and his readers think it's someone British, fat and gay. Is the letter stained with pork pie drippings and KY, or are Seattle's queens all this ridiculous? Anyway, if walking the streets of this city is any indication, there are a lot of overeducated, former mental patients out there who could have easily penned this.

By: msalt

msalt — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:54:08 -0800

Those gay bar names are not very good (or bad) innuendos. Come on gays of Seattle! No Rawhide? No Good Friends? No Phase Two? No Jaded? Hard to top: "The White Swallow" on Polk Street in San Francisco. Actually, "Hard to Top" isn't bad, either.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:58:21 -0800

Anyway, if walking the streets of this city is any indication, there are a lot of overeducated, former mental patients out there who could have easily penned this. I did not!

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:00:27 -0800

This is what I miss out on by not having special bars.

By: Nelson

Nelson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:00:38 -0800

That would be the late, lamented "White Swallow". We've still got "Endup", "Moby Dick" and "The Men's Room" though.

By: Nelson

Nelson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:02:47 -0800

And yes, there's a lot of crystal meth use in the gay party scene. For instance, see Craigslist for PnP ads.

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:11:30 -0800

Actually, "Hard to Top" isn't bad, either. Except no one would go to that bar.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:28:48 -0800

Actually, "Hard to Top" isn't bad, either Bottoms Up would be better.

By: tristeza

tristeza — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:34:07 -0800

I absolutely love that I am within a 10 minute walk 10 of the 11 bars listed. Yay, gays! This is scary, but some of those idiots commenting on The Slog are just as bad, jesus.

By: Neofelis

Neofelis — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:36:54 -0800

I really really hope they catch whoever sent the letter if only because all the crazypants super-specific speculation about his (OR HER?!!!) identity is kind of fascinating.

By: proj

proj — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:58:13 -0800

Slog commenters are often some of the vilest and most prejudiced commenters, just not in the usual direction.

By: stet

stet — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:23:28 -0800

Firefox needs and extension that eliminates all traces of comments from local news outlets. Think of the aggravation that would save! Maybe they could start with that stupidfilter thing that was in the news a while back?

By: Joe Beese

Joe Beese — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:40:19 -0800

How bored would you have to be to bother killing Katie Holmes? Given what her life is like now, you might consider it euthanasia.

By: Quietgal

Quietgal — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:13:54 -0800

As a biochemist, I boggled at the claim of 67 g of ricin, thinking he meant the purified protein (hey, I'm a lab dork). 67 g of pure ricin toxin would be an astonishing amount to have lying around. If the guy isn't completely bluffing, he must have a very impure form. So I googled around and found an interesting article on ricin from a law enforcement perspective. It doesn't have to be very pure, or formulated in a high-tech way, to be a fairly effective bioweapon for small-scale operations. (The big boys prefer anthrax or botulinum toxin, apparently.)

By: Tube

Tube — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:16:39 -0800

My favorite gay bar name has always been Numbers, located in Vancouver, BC, which I assume to be an allusion to the title of one of John Rechy's novels.

By: dawson

dawson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:16:46 -0800

Savage said the letters didn't contain any religious references, making him wonder whether the author was an embittered gay person. So as I read it he's not saying the person isn't religious because of erudition, but because the person is a 'gay man'. Since when have gay men been stereotyped as not being religious? Most in my circle are pretty devout. Not holy rollers, but guys with a pretty active belief system. Which is of course an anecdotal sampling, but still... Obviously I'm missing something? I usually am.

By: roll truck roll

roll truck roll — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:33:33 -0800

I think you might be missing part of it, dawson. He's not saying that gay and religion are mutually exclusive. He's saying that the brand of anti-gay that involves actual threats of violence is nearly always closely tied to religious zealotry. I don't know if I entirely buy that assumption, but in this particular case, his reading of the letter makes more sense to me than anything else I can think of.

By: spaceman_spiff

spaceman_spiff — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:33:37 -0800

Dawson: yes. It's not "he's gay, therefore not religious"; it's "he's not religious; what other demographic might write such a letter?"

By: wastelands

wastelands — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:00:48 -0800

"while in hospital". How much you want to bet this person is British? Isn't that where all of those are from? "I went to university" instead of "I went to the university", etc.

By: wastelands

wastelands — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:01:53 -0800

Oops. Scratch that. I failed to read the comments first. Forgive me, I'm coming back to MeFi after a months of frequenting other sites.

By: crossoverman

crossoverman — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:03:26 -0800

Hard to Top. Except no one would go to that bar. On first read, I would agree. On second read, with the emphasis on HARD maybe it'd be okay. Needs a semi-colon?

By: dawson

dawson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:16:18 -0800

roll truck roll/spaceman_spiff Ahh, thanks. I guess I sorta see that now.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:16:21 -0800

I think he's just sick of the music they play at gay clubs. I think these are bars, not clubs. Also, the Phoenix Bar on 13th and A (still there?) in Manhattan has the best indie rock jukebox I have ever had the pleasure of dropping money into. Speculation-wise, I'd put my money on an HIV-infected woman. Or scorned drug dealer? How else could he/she poison people? You send a letter out like that, and people will be on the watch for some dude/woman creeping around and dropping powder into drinks ... I don't think that would work. One good reason why you never piss off your drug dealer. Or do white-powder drugs.

By: dawson

dawson — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:23:58 -0800

Oops. Scratch that. I failed to read the comments first. Forgive me, I'm coming back to MeFi after a months of frequenting other sites. What, you've been in the wastelands or something?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:25:25 -0800

I think these are bars, not clubs. Also, the Phoenix Bar on 13th and A (still there?) in Manhattan has the best indie rock jukebox I have ever had the pleasure of dropping money into. Not to start a Manhattan gay bar war but (makes jerking motions). They do have a ton of Dusty Springfield, so kudos for that

By: terranova

terranova — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:27:13 -0800

If this were a CSI episode, the letter-writer would turn out to be a rival bar owner whose club is saved from bankruptcy after the poison-pen campaign.

By: msalt

msalt — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:30:07 -0800

"Hard to Top" Needs a semi-colon? Hard, to Top. Show Hard to Top? The bar's sign would be Hard 2 Top in any case.

By: redsparkler

redsparkler — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:49:59 -0800

The other thought I have, on reading a couple of the related articles, is that if the letter writer ISN'T gay, and is in fact very homophobic, being so actively identified as gay by Mr.Savage could lead the writer to a rebuttal letter, which could lead to more clues.

By: Jilder

Jilder — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:57:16 -0800

What's the best way to piss a homophobe off enough to make them lose their composure and start revealing incriminating information? Accuse them of being gay. Nice work, Dan.

By: eritain

eritain — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:25:00 -0800

"I have in my possession approximately 67 grams of ricin with which I will indiscriminately target at least five of your clients. ... I expect them to die painfully while in hospital." Given that Georgi Markov was killed by a pinhead-sized pellet, of whose volume a small fraction (less than half) was filled with ricin, this is rather akin to saying "I have in my possession approximately 67 thermonuclear bombs with which I will indiscriminately target at least five of your streets. ... I expect their economies to gradually falter despite efforts to carry on as normal."

By: eritain

eritain — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:29:48 -0800

On reflection, author does intend to spread that out over 55 victims. Even so. Well over a gram per person is like sandblasting a soda cracker.

By: binturong

binturong — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:55:47 -0800

if the letter writer ISN'T gay, and is in fact very homophobic Some of the worst homophobes are closeted gays. e.g. Roy Cohn.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:06:25 -0800

'm finding this story a little hard to believe. Those gay bar names are not very good (or bad) innuendos. Come on gays of Seattle! No Rawhide? No Good Friends? No Phase Two? No Jaded? The best you can do is Re-bar and The Cuff? At least they have an Eagle, as per the The Handbook of Required Gay Bars and Establishments. Though, if it's not a leather bar, they're guilty of false advertising.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:09:32 -0800

It all adds up - The traditional method of delivering lethal ricin pellets is a jab from a sharpened umbrella. I suspect... THE PENGUIN.

By: Alvy Ampersand

Alvy Ampersand — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:20:33 -0800

I think the letter reads like someone trying too hard to use correct spelling and grammar and falling just short. Same with the semicolon. Yeah, it reminded me of my MeFi comments. And I'm not suggesting Morrissey is involved. That would be a stretch. Why bother going through the hassle of ricin when he could just show up at the bar and bore them all to death?

By: davejay

davejay — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:34:47 -0800

By: desuetude

desuetude — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:48:52 -0800

Not only is the writer probably British, but he's probably old-school educated, too: he correctly writes "11" as a numeral and "five" as a word, which basically only copywriters do these days. Agree. English majors of a certain dorkitude and our allies (which I mean as a self-description and, of course, with a certain pride) follow this sort of convention. My armchair-detective take on the chiefly British "while in hospital" is this: POSEUR.

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:55:52 -0800

Copy of letter sent to The Stranger. Poet Mark Doty wrote to Slog:

"This is just repellent. On the literal level, my poem ["A Display of Mackerel"] is about looking at fish on ice in the grocery store, and wondering if they could be called individuals. But I wrote in '94, in the crisis years of the epidemic, and so I was really thinking about mortality. I was trying to imagine some way to make the loss of those we love seem even temporarily bearable. So I was thinking about what it means to 'have' a self, to be a self, when selfhood is something we lose. I was trying to console myself and others, at least a little, for all we'd endured. So, it's especially ugly for these words to be used against gay men. Writers have no control over what people do with their words, but this is as far from my intention as you could get."

By: Craig

Craig — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:00:00 -0800

At least they have an Eagle, as per the The Handbook of Required Gay Bars and Establishments. Though, if it's not a leather bar, they're guilty of false advertising. Rest assured, the Eagle is everything you'd want it to be.

By: arcticwoman

arcticwoman — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:37:08 -0800

Canadians say "in hospital" too, and spell grams without the additional "me." We also use semicolons wrong; and hate Americans. Just saying.

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:03:33 -0800

I'm disappointed in Dan for offering this totally ungrounded speculation, it says a lot more about him than about the person who wrote the letter. Though to be fair, his column is that way all the time.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:14:55 -0800

Not only is the writer probably British, but he's probably old-school educated, too: he correctly writes "11" as a numeral and "five" as a word, which basically only copywriters do ... Agree. English majors of a certain dorkitude and our allies (which I mean as a self-description and, of course, with a certain pride) follow this sort of convention. I think plenty of people do this just with short-lettered words, not following a "rule" - for one, two, four, five, six and ten, but not for 3, 7, 8 and 11 +. Just laziness, not copywriteritude... Mark Doty's response is very touching, and the poem is quite beautiful, but I guess I'm surprised he's surprised that the poem could be read the way the letter-writer apparently did, that living and dying without a care could be "the price of gleaming"... And it does go with the suggestion that the writer is a bitter member of the community rather than a real outsider to make a reference like that. If I were part of that scene I'd be watching the drug supply more than anything - scare them with a letter to the bars, and then tamper with the white powder through a dealer (or maybe he is a dealer)... not that there is necessarily anyone who will actually do anything, but if there were, i'd bet it'd come thru a drug supply rather than drink by drink.