Should we care about Carl Lundström's xenophobia?
March 2, 2009 12:50 AM Subscribe
The notorious torrent tracker The Pirate Bay was originally established with the support of Carl Lundström, who continues to hold a significant stake in the enterprise and support it financially. Carl Lundström is also a supporter of far-right anti-immigrant parties and was allegedly involved in an violent attack against three Latin Americans. Now a well known online computer magazine suggests that geek sympathies for The Pirate Bay have kept reporters from covering this issue. Wired's coverage only says that Lundström's detractors point to a past in nationalist politics. The Pirate Bay's defenders dismiss the questions as being nothing more than a slur, but the attacks and defense beg a fundamental question: can the views of a financial supporter taint an otherwise neutral organisation?
And next you're going to tell me that wikipedia was started by, uh, forget it.
posted by allen.spaulding at 1:03 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by allen.spaulding at 1:03 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
And next you're going to tell me that wikipedia was started by, uh, forget it.
A douchebag?
Anyway, if you know of any other useful trackers let us know.
posted by delmoi at 1:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
A douchebag?
Anyway, if you know of any other useful trackers let us know.
posted by delmoi at 1:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Should we care about Carl Lundström's xenophobia?"
Yes, absolutely. The real question here is how much of The Pirate Bay's profits go towards such activities, if TPB makes any money at all.
So if it's true that Lundström is what it's alleged he is, and if TPB makes a lot of money which Lundström then goes on to give to right wing Nazi groups, then in my opinion it's enough of a reason to boycott the site. But as jurors in TPB's trial have no doubt been told many times, Lundström (and TPB by association) is innocent until proven guilty.
That said, if one needs to boycot TPB, it's not as if other BitTorrent sites like Mininova, Bitsoup, Demonoid, Bitesoup, Torrentportal, Youtorrent, Isohunt, Torrentz, Torrentscan, Torrentsmatrix, Torents.to, FileMP3, TorrentBox, TorrentSpy, BTJunkie, Torrentreactor, Torrenttyphoon, Yotoshi, Snarfit, Torrentbytes, Meganova, ByTorrents Meta Search, Thinktorrent, Torrentdamage, FullDLS, Torrentlocomotive, Scrapetorrent, Filelist.org, Fenopy, BTbot, Lokitorrent and the ubiquitous Bittorrent.com don't exist for you to get stuff* from.
*Legal data you created yourself, of course.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:17 AM on March 2, 2009 [54 favorites]
Yes, absolutely. The real question here is how much of The Pirate Bay's profits go towards such activities, if TPB makes any money at all.
So if it's true that Lundström is what it's alleged he is, and if TPB makes a lot of money which Lundström then goes on to give to right wing Nazi groups, then in my opinion it's enough of a reason to boycott the site. But as jurors in TPB's trial have no doubt been told many times, Lundström (and TPB by association) is innocent until proven guilty.
That said, if one needs to boycot TPB, it's not as if other BitTorrent sites like Mininova, Bitsoup, Demonoid, Bitesoup, Torrentportal, Youtorrent, Isohunt, Torrentz, Torrentscan, Torrentsmatrix, Torents.to, FileMP3, TorrentBox, TorrentSpy, BTJunkie, Torrentreactor, Torrenttyphoon, Yotoshi, Snarfit, Torrentbytes, Meganova, ByTorrents Meta Search, Thinktorrent, Torrentdamage, FullDLS, Torrentlocomotive, Scrapetorrent, Filelist.org, Fenopy, BTbot, Lokitorrent and the ubiquitous Bittorrent.com don't exist for you to get stuff* from.
*Legal data you created yourself, of course.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:17 AM on March 2, 2009 [54 favorites]
One could argue that political beliefs are irrelevant to the legality of TPB, but there's one thing that sounds fishy: TPB's responce (the dismiss link) doesn't even mention Lundstrom by name, and claims it's just an ISP that gave them cheap rates to help them start up, yet Lundstrom is one of the four defendants in the trial. Trying to push him under the carpet only reinforces the guilt by association attack in my view.
posted by ghost of a past number at 1:35 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ghost of a past number at 1:35 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I heard that the pro-Palestinian Jew Daniel Barenboim conducted music from the opera "Tristan und Isolde", which is about English oppression of the Irish and oath-breaking, and which was written by Adolf Hitler's favorite composer, the anti-Semite German Richard Wagner!
posted by orthogonality at 1:53 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by orthogonality at 1:53 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, let me get this straight: A guy who supports an ethically questionable web site is involved in ethically questionable politics?
posted by SteveTheRed at 1:56 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by SteveTheRed at 1:56 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
So, let me get this straight: A guy who supports an ethically questionable web site is involved in ethically questionable politics?
posted by SteveTheRed at 9:56 AM on March 2
You really nailed it there, didn't you? Ethically questionable = ethically questionable, so filesharing = neonazism. Where have I heard such an argument before?
posted by kolophon at 2:14 AM on March 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by SteveTheRed at 9:56 AM on March 2
You really nailed it there, didn't you? Ethically questionable = ethically questionable, so filesharing = neonazism. Where have I heard such an argument before?
posted by kolophon at 2:14 AM on March 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
I'm not saying that filesharing = neonazism. I'm just not surprised that someone who supports a site that engages in ethically questionable practices (and is half covered in porn ads) is a scumbag.
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy. By ethically questionable, I simply mean that there are valid arguments for and against piracy. By scumbag, I mean a horrible neonazi jerk.
posted by SteveTheRed at 2:25 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy. By ethically questionable, I simply mean that there are valid arguments for and against piracy. By scumbag, I mean a horrible neonazi jerk.
posted by SteveTheRed at 2:25 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
The big question in the trial is whether the Pirate Bay is doing something that is illegal by itself, specifically related to intellectual property.
The question if said activity is sponsored by a nazi scumbag should have no influence over whether it is illegal or not.
One outcome of this trial could be that, yes, what the bay does is legal, and yes, everybody will henceforth boycott it because of Lundström, and the site disappears eventually.
What should not be the outcome of the trial is that the site is declared illegal because of its link to Lundström. Or at least, not in this particular trial, because the charges have nothing to do with nazi ideology.
posted by DreamerFi at 2:34 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
The question if said activity is sponsored by a nazi scumbag should have no influence over whether it is illegal or not.
One outcome of this trial could be that, yes, what the bay does is legal, and yes, everybody will henceforth boycott it because of Lundström, and the site disappears eventually.
What should not be the outcome of the trial is that the site is declared illegal because of its link to Lundström. Or at least, not in this particular trial, because the charges have nothing to do with nazi ideology.
posted by DreamerFi at 2:34 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy. By ethically questionable, I simply mean that there are valid arguments for and against piracy.
So "ethically questionable" just means that there are valid arguments against it? In other words an act is ethically questionable if anyone out there might find cause to question the ethics of that act?
In other words people who do one thing that other people might question the ethics of, are likely to do other things that people might question the ethics of. For example, a woman who votes for pro-choice candidates might also be a lesbian.
If that's the case, I think this would apply to almost every person on earth, there must be something that they do that at least one or two other people don't like.
But what you really mean is that what you find unethical is what matters. Which isn't really interesting to anyone but yourself.
posted by delmoi at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
So "ethically questionable" just means that there are valid arguments against it? In other words an act is ethically questionable if anyone out there might find cause to question the ethics of that act?
In other words people who do one thing that other people might question the ethics of, are likely to do other things that people might question the ethics of. For example, a woman who votes for pro-choice candidates might also be a lesbian.
If that's the case, I think this would apply to almost every person on earth, there must be something that they do that at least one or two other people don't like.
But what you really mean is that what you find unethical is what matters. Which isn't really interesting to anyone but yourself.
posted by delmoi at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [8 favorites]
Joe in Australia, I like you but i'm a terrible person. Do you feel tainted?
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I wasn't aware ad hominem attacks were better in the real world. Your unrelated activity is good or bad based on political beliefs? That seems like an awfully bad road to go down.
posted by jaduncan at 3:31 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 3:31 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
It doesn't matter if the organisation is neutral. What matters is if the organisation has meaningful opposition. If it does, game on. Any vulnerability - in this case the financial backer - is there to be exploited.
It might be unfair, but when money, or prestige or anything else people care about is at risk then it would be naive to expect them to allow a free pass. There is no fundamental question to be begged: business is just politics played for cash, rather than power. From student councils and the guy selling hotdogs on the street corner upwards, dirty tricks or salacious revelations have always been used somewhere against someone.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:46 AM on March 2, 2009
It might be unfair, but when money, or prestige or anything else people care about is at risk then it would be naive to expect them to allow a free pass. There is no fundamental question to be begged: business is just politics played for cash, rather than power. From student councils and the guy selling hotdogs on the street corner upwards, dirty tricks or salacious revelations have always been used somewhere against someone.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:46 AM on March 2, 2009
Delmoi that's stretching Steve's comment pretty far. I get what he's saying, he made a funny about how this guy supports an ethically questionable website (completely fair assumption) and he's not surprised he's also involved in ethically questionable politics. That's it, no more over analyzing.
posted by BrnP84 at 3:55 AM on March 2, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by BrnP84 at 3:55 AM on March 2, 2009 [4 favorites]
An Violent Attack would be an awesome band name.
posted by Eideteker at 4:12 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Eideteker at 4:12 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Beans anyone? They're pro-Nazi, but FREE!!!!*
*Plate not included
posted by Muddler at 4:15 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
*Plate not included
posted by Muddler at 4:15 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Begging the question" does not mean what you think it means.
posted by oddman at 5:02 AM on March 2, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by oddman at 5:02 AM on March 2, 2009 [4 favorites]
You know who else
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:56 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:56 AM on March 2, 2009
Well, that explains why the new U2 album sounds an awful lot like Skrewdriver.
posted by Ufez Jones at 6:04 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by Ufez Jones at 6:04 AM on March 2, 2009
TPB is covered in porn ads? Or ads at all? I've seriously never seen that. In fact, I think of TPB as being one of the "safe" tracker to visit when my family is in the room. (The other safe one is Mininova, but it doesn't seem to be quite as comprehensive.)
posted by DU at 6:09 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by DU at 6:09 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
can the views of a financial supporter taint an otherwise neutral organisation?
neutral? The site is not neutral. They encouraged and supported the formation of a political party in sweden. They openly mock the take-down notices sent to them by property owners. They openly embrace and exploit the image of a pirate/bootlegger who cavalierly breaks the law, while arguing in court the technicality that they don't actually store any copyrighted material on their site and therefore aren't really a pirate.
They aren't in any way neutral. They have a view of intellectual property rights that is as radical in that sphere as Lundstrom's racial views are in the political sphere. This is simply a case of people picking and choosing the radical viewpoints they will support or denounce.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:14 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
neutral? The site is not neutral. They encouraged and supported the formation of a political party in sweden. They openly mock the take-down notices sent to them by property owners. They openly embrace and exploit the image of a pirate/bootlegger who cavalierly breaks the law, while arguing in court the technicality that they don't actually store any copyrighted material on their site and therefore aren't really a pirate.
They aren't in any way neutral. They have a view of intellectual property rights that is as radical in that sphere as Lundstrom's racial views are in the political sphere. This is simply a case of people picking and choosing the radical viewpoints they will support or denounce.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:14 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But if you pay federal income tax to the United States government, you're providing direct financial support to an organization that has murdered 90,000 civilians and counting - at the very minimum.
Lundström seems like small husmanskost by comparison.
posted by Joe Beese at 6:41 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
Lundström seems like small husmanskost by comparison.
posted by Joe Beese at 6:41 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
"Begging the question" does not mean what you think it means.
Sigh. Yes it does, unless you're a prescriptivist.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:44 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sigh. Yes it does, unless you're a prescriptivist.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:44 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
There is some serious conflation of ideas and issues going on in this thread.
For one thing, obviously there is no such thing as a neutral organization. That said, a given organization can be neutral wrt to a given issue. Does TPB have any official or even de facto stance on immigration?
For another, there's a lot of confusion going on about who the "we" of "should we care" is. I don't think a single backer's questionable politics taints the legal standing of TPB. However, it may well taint the social standing.
MetaFilter: try to think a little more critically
posted by DU at 6:47 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
For one thing, obviously there is no such thing as a neutral organization. That said, a given organization can be neutral wrt to a given issue. Does TPB have any official or even de facto stance on immigration?
For another, there's a lot of confusion going on about who the "we" of "should we care" is. I don't think a single backer's questionable politics taints the legal standing of TPB. However, it may well taint the social standing.
MetaFilter: try to think a little more critically
posted by DU at 6:47 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Thanks for posting this, Joe in Australia. If I was using Pirate Bay, even the limited evidence in your links would be enough to get me to find another source. That's just me, though.
posted by mediareport at 6:51 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by mediareport at 6:51 AM on March 2, 2009
Even more extravagant and disdainful sigh.
I know the difference between prescriptivism and descriptivism, thanks. I'm not a prescriptivist. I don't think that the platonic form of the English language is floating somewhere in an abstract heaven. As member of the English speaking world I have a say on the meaning of any phrase that I use. If I get enough people to agree with me, then the meaning of the word changes to suit my preference. I choose to argue and advocate for a particular, narrow meaning for that phrase.
posted by oddman at 6:54 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
I know the difference between prescriptivism and descriptivism, thanks. I'm not a prescriptivist. I don't think that the platonic form of the English language is floating somewhere in an abstract heaven. As member of the English speaking world I have a say on the meaning of any phrase that I use. If I get enough people to agree with me, then the meaning of the word changes to suit my preference. I choose to argue and advocate for a particular, narrow meaning for that phrase.
posted by oddman at 6:54 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
On February 18, 2009 the Norwegian socialist party Red began a global campaign in support of The Pirate Bay and filesharers worldwide that will last until May 1.
If it's good enough for the Norwegian socialist party, it's good enough for me!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:05 AM on March 2, 2009
If it's good enough for the Norwegian socialist party, it's good enough for me!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:05 AM on March 2, 2009
Lundström might be a Pirate Neo-Nazi, but at least he's not a Prescriptivist Grammar Nazi.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:09 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by burnmp3s at 7:09 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah, an ultra right wing crazy whacko nut IN NORWAY is probably what we in the USA would call a Democrat.
posted by DU at 7:10 AM on March 2, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by DU at 7:10 AM on March 2, 2009 [6 favorites]
while arguing in court the technicality that they don't actually store any copyrighted material on their site and therefore aren't really a pirate.
It is not a technicality, they don't host or store any copyrighted material. There was a good article today in Reason about how Carter revolutionized the beer industry by making home brewing legal:
And boycott TBP? Really? Why aren't we boycotting Sandoz who made this guy rich in the first place? I think the reason that this hasn't been made an issue in the media is that he doesn't appear to be using Wikileaks/TPB and other sites to further his agenda. I mean it is good to know, and it is definitely on the list of places I won't give money too, but I really don't think it is that big of a deal. I mean does anyone even use TPB as their first resource? I thought nowadays you get a nastygram for having your IP in the cloud?
PS I'm pretty sure I got this great hard to find film about the rise of the New Left off of Pirate Bay, so if it does have an agenda of this aristocratic nazi, it is doing a bad job of promoting it. I can't remember the name of the film, it was some French idiom that translated to "The Grinning Cat is Upside Down" or "The Orange Cat Grins" or something, and now it is driving me nuts to find it.
posted by geoff. at 7:26 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
It is not a technicality, they don't host or store any copyrighted material. There was a good article today in Reason about how Carter revolutionized the beer industry by making home brewing legal:
If you’re looking for a textbook example of how government can stifle innovation and discourage productive activity, even when operating in Regulatory Lite mode, the story of home brewing in America should hit the spot.Do you think we'd have Hulu and iTunes if people weren't visiting sites like The Pirate Bay? I really don't think so. I think we'd be paying $60 a Blu-Ray and stuck in some sort of pre-TiVo wasteland.
And boycott TBP? Really? Why aren't we boycotting Sandoz who made this guy rich in the first place? I think the reason that this hasn't been made an issue in the media is that he doesn't appear to be using Wikileaks/TPB and other sites to further his agenda. I mean it is good to know, and it is definitely on the list of places I won't give money too, but I really don't think it is that big of a deal. I mean does anyone even use TPB as their first resource? I thought nowadays you get a nastygram for having your IP in the cloud?
PS I'm pretty sure I got this great hard to find film about the rise of the New Left off of Pirate Bay, so if it does have an agenda of this aristocratic nazi, it is doing a bad job of promoting it. I can't remember the name of the film, it was some French idiom that translated to "The Grinning Cat is Upside Down" or "The Orange Cat Grins" or something, and now it is driving me nuts to find it.
posted by geoff. at 7:26 AM on March 2, 2009 [3 favorites]
Uh, Norway is the country that produced this guy and his pals. I think that they're holding their own in the wingnut production department.
posted by jonmc at 7:27 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 7:27 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I mean does anyone even use TPB as their first resource?
Yes.
I thought nowadays you get a nastygram for having your IP in the cloud?
Maybe I don't understand this because I have my feet on the ground.
posted by DU at 7:29 AM on March 2, 2009
Yes.
I thought nowadays you get a nastygram for having your IP in the cloud?
Maybe I don't understand this because I have my feet on the ground.
posted by DU at 7:29 AM on March 2, 2009
I used to care about stuff. I don't anymore. I am exploiting them, and they don't even know it. Pfft. Fuck Nazis though.
posted by IvoShandor at 7:39 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by IvoShandor at 7:39 AM on March 2, 2009
Lundström might be a Pirate Neo-Nazi, but at least he's not a Prescriptivist Grammar Nazi.
So I double comment. That's the extent of my exploitation.
In response to the above, at least, at the very least, he isn't an objectivist, he doesn't worship Ayn Rand. So he's got that goin' for himself. That, and The Pirate Bay.
posted by IvoShandor at 7:42 AM on March 2, 2009
So I double comment. That's the extent of my exploitation.
In response to the above, at least, at the very least, he isn't an objectivist, he doesn't worship Ayn Rand. So he's got that goin' for himself. That, and The Pirate Bay.
posted by IvoShandor at 7:42 AM on March 2, 2009
If I get enough people to agree with me, then the meaning of the word changes to suit my preference.
Is this a hobby or more of a vocation?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:44 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
Is this a hobby or more of a vocation?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:44 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
But like the Futurists a hundred years ago - the original Freetards - [anti-copyright activists] don't mind jumping into bed with neo-Nazis when it suits them. (from the "suggests" link)
Yeah, that's some ace reporting there.
First they tried to shame people out of file sharing by saying "What of the poor starving musician?" Now they're trying to shame people out of file sharing by saying "ZOMG Nazis!"
When that fails, I suppose Plan C will be trying to shame people out of file sharing by saying that it makes the baby Jesus cry.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:51 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that's some ace reporting there.
First they tried to shame people out of file sharing by saying "What of the poor starving musician?" Now they're trying to shame people out of file sharing by saying "ZOMG Nazis!"
When that fails, I suppose Plan C will be trying to shame people out of file sharing by saying that it makes the baby Jesus cry.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:51 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
burnmp3s, I know! I can't stand them either.
octobersurprise, it's more of a conceit.
posted by oddman at 7:52 AM on March 2, 2009
octobersurprise, it's more of a conceit.
posted by oddman at 7:52 AM on March 2, 2009
Why aren't we boycotting Sandoz who made this guy rich in the first place?
This guy made his money from Sandoz? That's IT, dude. I'll never take another hit of nazi-laced acid as long as I live...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:54 AM on March 2, 2009
This guy made his money from Sandoz? That's IT, dude. I'll never take another hit of nazi-laced acid as long as I live...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:54 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:34 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:34 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
Not pejorative enough for you?
posted by Joe Beese at 8:41 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Not pejorative enough for you?
posted by Joe Beese at 8:41 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
Why? That's a quite literal description of what it is.
posted by MikeMc at 8:42 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Why? That's a quite literal description of what it is.
posted by MikeMc at 8:42 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
I guess "file sharing" doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "intellectual theft that literally snatches the bread from the mouth of the artist," but it's a pretty accurate (though I guess overly neutral for your taste) way of putting it.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:46 AM on March 2, 2009
I guess "file sharing" doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "intellectual theft that literally snatches the bread from the mouth of the artist," but it's a pretty accurate (though I guess overly neutral for your taste) way of putting it.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:46 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
Why? That's a quite literal description of what it is.
Right. Just keep telling yourself that. Eventually you may even believe it.
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2009
Why? That's a quite literal description of what it is.
Right. Just keep telling yourself that. Eventually you may even believe it.
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:47 AM on March 2, 2009
I guess "file sharing" doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "intellectual theft that literally snatches the bread from the mouth of the artist"...
Heh heh... Axl Rose was just about to bite down on that sourdough baguette and then... Yoink!
Thanks, neo-Nazi intellectual theft abetter!
posted by Joe Beese at 8:50 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
Heh heh... Axl Rose was just about to bite down on that sourdough baguette and then... Yoink!
Thanks, neo-Nazi intellectual theft abetter!
posted by Joe Beese at 8:50 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
Yeah, an ultra right wing crazy whacko nut IN NORWAY is probably what we in the USA would call a Democrat.
posted by DU at 3:10 PM on March 2
A nazi in Norway is a nazi in the US is a nazi IN SWEDEN, where this guy (and TPB) is actually from. Unless beating up latin-american immigrants would be called democrat in the US?
Anyway, I think this quote from TPB is quite helpful:
"“It’s called guilt by association - one of our previous ISPs (with clients like The Red Cross, Save the Children foundation etc) gave us cheap bandwidth since one of the guys in TPB worked there"So, let's make a thread about the Red Cross next. I would throw in a link about ther unwillingnes to allow gay men to donate blood, and thus could make an equally good case to boycott them.
posted by kolophon at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
posted by dayvin at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by dayvin at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2009
so....nazis are using file sharing?
posted by clavdivs at 8:57 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 8:57 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
oddman: I'm not a prescriptivist... If I get enough people to agree with me, then the meaning of the word changes to suit my preference. I choose to argue and advocate for a particular, narrow meaning for that phrase.
So, you're not a prescriptivist, but you are prescribing a particular, narrow definition to suit your own preferences, and working actively towards the goal of convincing others to adopt your prescribed definition.
Does not compute.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:57 AM on March 2, 2009
So, you're not a prescriptivist, but you are prescribing a particular, narrow definition to suit your own preferences, and working actively towards the goal of convincing others to adopt your prescribed definition.
Does not compute.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:57 AM on March 2, 2009
There's a difference?
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:58 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by MarshallPoe at 8:58 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
I love the fact that people keep trying to impose incorrect demonyms on Americans.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:58 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love the fact that people keep trying to impose incorrect demonyms on Americans.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 8:58 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
A nazi in Norway is a nazi in the US is a nazi IN SWEDEN, where this guy (and TPB) is actually from.
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
I was actually responding to this comment: On February 18, 2009 the Norwegian socialist party Red began a global campaign in support of The Pirate Bay and filesharers worldwide that will last until May 1.
However, as a typically ignorant (not to mention obese and ill-mannered) "USian" I may be incorrect in assuming that the "Norwegian socialist party Red" is based in Norway.
posted by DU at 9:03 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
I was actually responding to this comment: On February 18, 2009 the Norwegian socialist party Red began a global campaign in support of The Pirate Bay and filesharers worldwide that will last until May 1.
However, as a typically ignorant (not to mention obese and ill-mannered) "USian" I may be incorrect in assuming that the "Norwegian socialist party Red" is based in Norway.
posted by DU at 9:03 AM on March 2, 2009
Axl Rose was just about to bite down on that sourdough baguette and then... Yoink!
Well, if he didn't take 15 years to eat his bread, I wouldn't have had to take it.
[Sorry please insert your own less lame Chinese Democracy joke here. I just couldn't let the opportunity slip by, especially since stupid Axl has been dogging on Slash which is not cool. I mean, it's not as bad as being a Nazi or a grammar prescriptivist, but it's still not cool.]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well, if he didn't take 15 years to eat his bread, I wouldn't have had to take it.
[Sorry please insert your own less lame Chinese Democracy joke here. I just couldn't let the opportunity slip by, especially since stupid Axl has been dogging on Slash which is not cool. I mean, it's not as bad as being a Nazi or a grammar prescriptivist, but it's still not cool.]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Begging the question" does not mean what you think it means.
It means whatever the other people in the room think it means.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
It means whatever the other people in the room think it means.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:11 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
can the views of a financial supporter taint an otherwise neutral organisation?
Can a Rhodes Scholar accept Cecil Rhodes' money without accepting the man's beliefs?
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 9:19 AM on March 2, 2009
Can a Rhodes Scholar accept Cecil Rhodes' money without accepting the man's beliefs?
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 9:19 AM on March 2, 2009
Fuck TPB anyway, Downfall never has any seeds.
posted by Hitler at 9:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Hitler at 9:22 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.
I vastly prefer the phrase "murderous, pillaging, looting and razing of the homes of innocent baby bunnies through peer to peer connectivity" when I file share.
Occasionally, I like to stand on the roof cackling with demonic laughter when I do it. I'd prefer to say that lightning often enhances this visual for my neighbors, but the truth is, in a big enough storm, I'll probably put my sword away and get down from a high, wet place, and go and unplug my gear, you know, just to be safe.
posted by quin at 9:25 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
I vastly prefer the phrase "murderous, pillaging, looting and razing of the homes of innocent baby bunnies through peer to peer connectivity" when I file share.
Occasionally, I like to stand on the roof cackling with demonic laughter when I do it. I'd prefer to say that lightning often enhances this visual for my neighbors, but the truth is, in a big enough storm, I'll probably put my sword away and get down from a high, wet place, and go and unplug my gear, you know, just to be safe.
posted by quin at 9:25 AM on March 2, 2009 [5 favorites]
Around the same time you realize you're not actually psychic, and can't read people's minds I guess.Right. Just keep telling yourself that [sharing files is ‘file sharing’]. Eventually you may even believe it.I love the fact that people still call it "file sharing" without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up.Why? That's a quite literal description of what it is.
A nazi in Norway is a nazi in the US is a nazi IN SWEDEN, where this guy (and TPB) is actually from. Unless beating up latin-american immigrants would be called democrat in the US?
"Bubba doesn’t call them illegal immigrants. He calls them illegal aliens. If the Democrats put illegal aliens in their bait can, we’re going to come home with a bunch of white males in the boat." – Mudcat Saunders, democratic strategistThere were democrats out there who decided to hop on the Mexican-bashing bandwagon back when that was trendy for god knows what reason. Not that that's equivalent to actually beating anyone up.
posted by delmoi at 9:26 AM on March 2, 2009
I'm not saying that filesharing = neonazism. I'm just not surprised that someone who supports a site that engages in ethically questionable practices (and is half covered in porn ads) is a scumbag.
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy.
No, you're just going to drop a comparison between file sharers and neo-Nazis. Not trying to start any flamewars there, no sir.
Also, yes, there are loads other trackers out there. Your torrent client should allow you to decide from which tracker you share your data. TPB isn't the only game in town.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:48 AM on March 2, 2009
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy.
No, you're just going to drop a comparison between file sharers and neo-Nazis. Not trying to start any flamewars there, no sir.
Also, yes, there are loads other trackers out there. Your torrent client should allow you to decide from which tracker you share your data. TPB isn't the only game in town.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:48 AM on March 2, 2009
geoff., the film you're thinking of is almost certainly A Grin Without a Cat by the great Chris Marker. (La Jetée, Sans Soleil.) I'm pretty sure I read recently that it's (finally) coming out on DVD soon. (Here's hoping it's significantly more affordable than the current VHS edition from Icarus Films, which sells for $400.)
posted by Joey Bagels at 10:24 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Bagels at 10:24 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
Ad hominem fallacy, geniuses.
I like Volkswagens.
posted by klangklangston at 10:50 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I like Volkswagens.
posted by klangklangston at 10:50 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
A fjord is a fjord is a fjord.
posted by rokusan at 11:03 AM on March 2, 2009
A fjord is a fjord is a fjord.
posted by rokusan at 11:03 AM on March 2, 2009
I love the fact that USians still don't know the difference between Norway and Sweden.
Aren't they both part of Denmark anyway?
posted by MikeMc at 11:39 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Aren't they both part of Denmark anyway?
posted by MikeMc at 11:39 AM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Remember... when you pirate an album, you break the musician's heart.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2009
posted by Joe Beese at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2009
A fjord is a fjord is a fjord.
And you can have any color you want, as long as it's blue.
Hey! Didn't Henry Fjord have Nazi sympathies?
posted by mwhybark at 11:57 AM on March 2, 2009
And you can have any color you want, as long as it's blue.
Hey! Didn't Henry Fjord have Nazi sympathies?
posted by mwhybark at 11:57 AM on March 2, 2009
This post is using 'begs the question' wrong.
posted by mullingitover at 12:01 PM on March 2, 2009
posted by mullingitover at 12:01 PM on March 2, 2009
This post is using 'begs the question' wrong.
I doubt that this guy would agree with you.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:10 PM on March 2, 2009
I doubt that this guy would agree with you.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:10 PM on March 2, 2009
Gee, a successful businessman is a right-wing asshole?
How exactly is this newsworthy? Is it worthy of a FPP because it involves an Internet figure?
posted by jason's_planet at 12:16 PM on March 2, 2009
How exactly is this newsworthy? Is it worthy of a FPP because it involves an Internet figure?
posted by jason's_planet at 12:16 PM on March 2, 2009
How exactly is this newsworthy? Is it worthy of a FPP because it involves an Internet figure?
Um, yes?
posted by delmoi at 12:47 PM on March 2, 2009
Um, yes?
posted by delmoi at 12:47 PM on March 2, 2009
This post is using 'begs the question' wrong.
Given the subject matter, it's more like "stealing the question", than begging.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:07 PM on March 2, 2009
Given the subject matter, it's more like "stealing the question", than begging.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:07 PM on March 2, 2009
"So, you're not a prescriptivist, but you are prescribing a particular, narrow definition to suit your own preferences, and working actively towards the goal of convincing others to adopt your prescribed definition.
Does not compute."
It's not a prescription; it's the citing of an error akin to pointing out a comma splice.
Culture jamming.
Culture War?
Meh? Shrugging.
Are you suggesting that "prescriptivist" does not mean what I think it means?
posted by oddman at 1:08 PM on March 2, 2009
Does not compute."
It's not a prescription; it's the citing of an error akin to pointing out a comma splice.
Culture jamming.
Culture War?
Meh? Shrugging.
Are you suggesting that "prescriptivist" does not mean what I think it means?
posted by oddman at 1:08 PM on March 2, 2009
MarshallPoe: "I love the fact that people still call it 'file sharing' without a hint of irony. Just cracks me up."
Me too, man, I lol so hard.
posted by mullingitover at 1:49 PM on March 2, 2009
Me too, man, I lol so hard.
posted by mullingitover at 1:49 PM on March 2, 2009
I'm not prepared to rehash the endless flamewar about piracy
Man, you thought that out well.
posted by lumpenprole at 2:45 PM on March 2, 2009
Man, you thought that out well.
posted by lumpenprole at 2:45 PM on March 2, 2009
Interesting questions you never thought would be answered, episode one: what would it take to get Mefites to laughingly minimize the severity of neo-nazi assaults on immigrants?
posted by yoink at 3:05 PM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by yoink at 3:05 PM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
With all due respect, torrent files aren't the industy's IP (unless they were the ones to upload it in the first place). Even if they were under US law the party lodging any takedown would be committing perjury by doing so.
I'm a general copyright abiding guy. My library these days are iTunes bought tracks. I buy my TV shows on DVD. But.
I pirate everything new release from the states. Yep. I'm on of the hundreds of thousands of Australians that uses Channel BT for TV. Am I proud of it? Not really. I'd rather buy it. Am I defacto forced into this situation? Kind of. TV stations over here intersperse new episodes with repeats to pad out seasons, chop and change times (I'm looking at you 7) and if they don't miraculously turn a station from shit to profitable it gets cancelled within a few weeks (i.e. The Office. Yes. You heard me right. The Office of all things was cancelled over here in 2 weeks).
They can complain all they want but while they arbitrarily segment markets for Internet based full length episodes, while they pad out the time it takes for TV to get here I'll be pulling down copyrighted material and buying it later when they do get their act together. I don't want anyone to suffer. I just want it in the first place without some cockhead from one of our networks screwing things up by putting 30 Rock on at 11:30 and then cancelling it due to poor ratings. More Emmys than any other show in a single year and they treat it like garbage.
And the networks over here have the audacity to get pissy because we all pirate this shit from the states. Hell, Heroes would have been consigned to the great Australian TV footnote if we didn't pirate it en masse and generate a huge buzz for it.
posted by Talez at 3:09 PM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm a general copyright abiding guy. My library these days are iTunes bought tracks. I buy my TV shows on DVD. But.
I pirate everything new release from the states. Yep. I'm on of the hundreds of thousands of Australians that uses Channel BT for TV. Am I proud of it? Not really. I'd rather buy it. Am I defacto forced into this situation? Kind of. TV stations over here intersperse new episodes with repeats to pad out seasons, chop and change times (I'm looking at you 7) and if they don't miraculously turn a station from shit to profitable it gets cancelled within a few weeks (i.e. The Office. Yes. You heard me right. The Office of all things was cancelled over here in 2 weeks).
They can complain all they want but while they arbitrarily segment markets for Internet based full length episodes, while they pad out the time it takes for TV to get here I'll be pulling down copyrighted material and buying it later when they do get their act together. I don't want anyone to suffer. I just want it in the first place without some cockhead from one of our networks screwing things up by putting 30 Rock on at 11:30 and then cancelling it due to poor ratings. More Emmys than any other show in a single year and they treat it like garbage.
And the networks over here have the audacity to get pissy because we all pirate this shit from the states. Hell, Heroes would have been consigned to the great Australian TV footnote if we didn't pirate it en masse and generate a huge buzz for it.
posted by Talez at 3:09 PM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
what would it take to get Mefites to laughingly minimize the severity of neo-nazi assaults on immigrants?
You seem to be getting a whole lot more out of that poorly translated article than I did. As best I can tell from the article in 1985 some gentlemen from Latin America accused some Swede skinheads of attacking them. Apparently Carl Lundström was one of the people picked up and questioned by the police about the alleged attack. That's it. No conviction, no further action by the authorities. Did I miss something?
posted by MikeMc at 4:35 PM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
You seem to be getting a whole lot more out of that poorly translated article than I did. As best I can tell from the article in 1985 some gentlemen from Latin America accused some Swede skinheads of attacking them. Apparently Carl Lundström was one of the people picked up and questioned by the police about the alleged attack. That's it. No conviction, no further action by the authorities. Did I miss something?
posted by MikeMc at 4:35 PM on March 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Did I miss something?
Indignant outrage and a large leap to conclusions!
I keed, I keed!
posted by Talez at 4:57 PM on March 2, 2009
Indignant outrage and a large leap to conclusions!
I keed, I keed!
posted by Talez at 4:57 PM on March 2, 2009
>>Should we care about Carl Lundström's xenophobia?
Hates torrent sites, hates 'em... but the Nazi in the background is pretty much irrelevant.
posted by darth_tedious at 5:30 PM on March 2, 2009
Hates torrent sites, hates 'em... but the Nazi in the background is pretty much irrelevant.
posted by darth_tedious at 5:30 PM on March 2, 2009
Mein Führer, I can seed!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:05 AM on March 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:05 AM on March 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
"I was actually responding to this comment: On February 18, 2009 the Norwegian socialist party Red began a global campaign in support of The Pirate Bay and filesharers worldwide that will last until May 1.
However, as a typically ignorant (not to mention obese and ill-mannered) "USian" I may be incorrect in assuming that the "Norwegian socialist party Red" is based in Norway."
So the "ultra right wing crazy wacko nuts" you referred to is the Norwegian socialist party Red?
posted by kolophon at 5:14 AM on March 3, 2009
Joey Bagels -- Grin Without a Cat streets May 5th, on DVD from Icarus films.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:40 PM on March 6, 2009
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:40 PM on March 6, 2009
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posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:59 AM on March 2, 2009 [2 favorites]