Comments on: Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere!

Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere!

shoesfullofdust — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:27:54 -0800

How Science Fiction Found Religion

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:30:37 -0800

"Bryan Singer's underrated Superman Returns" This is where I stopped reading. I'm sorry.

By: interrobang

interrobang — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:33:55 -0800

Looks like toward the end, he finally stops talking about fantasy and mentions some actual science fiction.

By: infinitewindow

infinitewindow — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:38:09 -0800

Apparently science fiction only exists in movie form, and religion only exists in Judeo-Christian form. No Dune, no "And Seven Times Never Kill Man," not even the crappy Memory of Earth.

By: JaredSeth

JaredSeth — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:39:03 -0800

Tell it to a science-fiction and fantasy fan, and he'll ask why you're making minor alterations to the plot of The Matrix or Superman Returns. That's funny, Optimus...I didn't even make it past the first mention.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:50:56 -0800

This is pretty old news, and not really that in-depth to make a decent article.

By: es_de_bah

es_de_bah — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:51:04 -0800

How Science Fiction Found Religion, as illustrated by three promising franchises blemished by shitty sequels.

By: flarbuse

flarbuse — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:51:53 -0800

And now onto the lightning round of tonight's Science Fiction or Religion! You have thirty seconds to decide which of these are science fiction, which are religion, and which are both! Start the timer! Walking On Water Dinosaurs Alive Today Dinosaurs and Man Living at the Same Time Time Travel Putting Two of Millions of Species onto a Boat Talking Snakes Talking Apes Talking Bushes Talking Vegetables Magic Fruit That Makes People Sin Magic Beans That Grow Giant Stalks Rising from the Dead Something Powerful Enough to Destroy a Planet in a Second Something Powerful Enough to Create a Planet in a Second People Living to be 800 Years Old Living Inside of a Whale Parting a Sea Sinking Part of a Continent into the Ocean Sticks That Can Turn Into Snakes People That Can Turn Into Werewolves People Flying Up Into the Sky Raining Frogs Virgins Giving Birth Men Giving Birth

By: es_de_bah

es_de_bah — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:52:52 -0800

ps, didn't Douglas Adams take the piss out of this sort of thing way back with Deep Thought, et al. I believe the exact line was, "This is all becoming needlessly messianic."

By: shoesfullofdust

shoesfullofdust — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:15:55 -0800

Let your favorite hero take the Lord Raglan Challenge!

By: Pope Guilty

Pope Guilty — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:16:36 -0800

This is where I stopped reading. I'm sorry. Hey, I only got as far as "Once overtly political, the genre increasingly employs Christian allegory." before I died laughing.

By: Mblue

Mblue — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:17:21 -0800

Once a rotten burger lived. ... Or the satisfied crow spoke the hung tongue.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:17:32 -0800

Did he mention Logan's Run? That was all about religion. And hot '70s chicks in stretchy costumes. And that "Box" robot. Oh, and domes. And wheels. And Michael whatsisname. Mostly religion though. Did he mention Logan's Run?

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:18:24 -0800

Isn't Optimus Prime a Jesus-like figure?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:20:26 -0800

Yep, ass-kicking heavily-armed Republican Jesus though. No foot-washing pussy of a Jesus, he.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:20:58 -0800

I mean, He. Sorry Jesus! Don't with the smiting!

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:24:29 -0800

Nah, you're thinking of The Island.

By: Mblue

Mblue — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:28:26 -0800

An interesting Thing with no name once appeared, then left.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:28:30 -0800

If this article -- which sounds like the ripest sort of stenching bullshit -- does not mention A Case of Conscience, it will be like tits on a bull. Someone, please let me know so that I don't have to slog through it.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:29:08 -0800

Or Behold the Man. I mean, please.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:34:06 -0800

This is pop culture for dummies, no? I mean, all pop culture is for dummies, but this is for the really dumb dummies that need it explained. So, for you dummies, let me state the central thesis of the article for you: Pervasive cultural themes are reflected in cultural objects. There! Now you don't have to read the article. If you're a dummy, you really shouldn't read the article, because it will make you substantially dumber. My IQ dropped to 163 just from skimming the damn thing. Approach with caution.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:40:40 -0800

I watched the Sci Fi channel's "Monster Ark" yesterday and am still recovering. My favourite part was where the atheist scientist turned into God's Anointed Weapon in less than 24 hours. Quite possibly the worst film I have seen in at least a decade. I had to close my eyes at certain points to stop from melting like a wax figure (which incidentally is one of the few Raiders of the Lost Ark moments not shamelessly stolen during the film). I heartily recommend it to all people who are fans of big grey shale pits masquerading as Iraq and a realistic depiction of current US Army disposition out in the sandbox. Particularly the Russian APC they drive around in and the shouty E-9 Sergeant Major erroneously referred to as "Major" for the entire film. The only way I can ensure that this film doesn't drive me insane is to share it with you. It's. Just. So. Fucking. Bad. "Git that sucker!" as the black Shouty (Sergeant) Major says. ***SPOILER WARNING*** And don't forget - when attacked by the stone beast that EVEN GOD COULD NOT KILL/CONTAIN - a man of faith must poke it with an golden acorn on a stick that conducts green electricity until it gets back inside it's wooden cage. Which is apparently more powerful than God since it can at least contain the beast. I will now begin my new religion of Wooden Cageism and have written to Nicholas Cage as I figure he has much experience in that area. ***SPOILERS OVER***

By: sourwookie

sourwookie — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:42:33 -0800

Fuck that sucked. Next week's column: We Are All Carpenters: How a trip to Lowe's puts us all in His shoes.

By: JohnR

JohnR — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:44:03 -0800

The christian narrative is a subset of the Monomyth described by Joseph Campbell. Here is a video showing how the movie The Matrix follows the pattern of the Monomyth. This is why this article is trivial.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:47:35 -0800

"Bryan Singer's underrated Superman Returns" From that you don't come back. But he does call Enterprise "the best Trek since the original" a little later on, just to hammer things home. After that I scanned through to see if anything was mentioned that was earlier than Star Wars, or maybe a book or something. Right at the bottom The Day The Earth Stood Still gets a brief mention, taking up all of a sentence. So basically as a history of religous, or even Christian, themes in science fiction it's utterly useless.

By: khaibit

khaibit — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:48:34 -0800

Dune and Stranger in a Strange Land are both mentioned as being "overtly messianic." You don't say. But talking about the new Battlestar as being politics and not religion? It's like he got all of his research from talking to his friends and not even watching the shows (much less reading a book).

By: ook

ook — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:49:43 -0800

I blame Quantum Leap. Or Highway to Heaven. Same show, really.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:54:04 -0800

To be fair, the pretty-good BSG seems to delve into politics in the same way it uses religion: as a throwaway idea one week to be forgotten or ignored by next week's New Big Idea. Conveniently, nobody remembers last week anyway. Good show, some great acting, but would a little continuity kill them?

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:55:11 -0800

"Bryan Singer's underrated Superman Returns" Yeah, that. My summary opinion of Superman Returns is the same as my experience.... I honestly cannot remember whether I saw the movie or not. I think I did.

By: Justinian

Justinian — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:57:46 -0800

That article is stupid. Really, really stupid. Any article that purports to be about religion and science fiction and then spends virtually the whole time discussing various movies isn't worth the paper it was printed on. Which, given this article wasn't actually printed on paper, makes it worth very little indeed. It's still far better than David Itzkoff's loathsome column in the New York Times.

By: Mblue

Mblue — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:00:47 -0800

Paint pealing door, Jekyll finds Hyde agree. Amen is voice.

By: quin

quin — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:06:57 -0800

Neo's very name isn't just an anagram of "One" but also a prefix meaning "new," Oh. My. God. I just realized that when rearranged, it also can spell "Eon" which the dictionary defines as "an indefinitely long period of time" and that is exactly how long the sequels seemed to last. That is some prophetic shit right there!

By: ford and the prefects

ford and the prefects — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:08:45 -0800

Hallelujah!" cries a minor character early in The Matrix, the 1999 cyberpunk flick, directed by Larry and Andy Wachowski, that took the nation by storm and, together with its two sequels, raked in about $600 million domestically. Benny Plotinsky's syntaxhas made me an atheist.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:09:08 -0800

quin - It's Gnostic and shit!

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:09:24 -0800

Like the Invisibles

By: ford and the prefects

ford and the prefects — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:13:55 -0800

OK, I'm sorry -- just finished the article -- and this Plotinsky character is a managing fucking editor?? REALLY? "Mebbe now sci-fi gots politics we wonthabbareligionnomore..." Good Lord. Asinine.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:16:17 -0800

Conveniently, nobody remembers last week anyway. Good show, some great acting, but would a little continuity kill them? BSG is done in continuing series of arcs as opposed to a straight episode to episode manner. Sometimes it works better than others.

By: khaibit

khaibit — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:16:47 -0800

The article reads like an undergrad humanities paper. He desperatly wants to prove a point, but he hasn't done the readings, hasn't paid attention in class and scrambled at the end for things that he knew about.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:19:46 -0800

He also has the Terminator franchise producing three fine films.

By: darksasami

darksasami — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:23:59 -0800

How Science Fiction Found Religion, as illustrated by three promising franchises blemished by shitty sequels. ...which thus become brilliant allegories for Judaism.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:49:18 -0800

When someone invents a premise and then goes looking for evidence to support it, I like them to look a little bit harder than that.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:07:13 -0800

Not to mention that Superman, when he's not busy being a messiah figure, spends his time representing the Jewish immigrant experience.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:07:25 -0800

O no you d'i'ihn.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:17:28 -0800

The stupid, it burns!

By: edgeways

edgeways — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:36:16 -0800

Sophomore college essay, to which all should say, why should we give a fuck about a narrow interpretation, based primarily on recent movies and comic books and Christianity? At minimum the fellow could have acknowledged the pre-Christian origins of things like re-birth, messianic entities, etc... Some of the best Sci Fi/religion books I've ever read where George Alec Effinger's (how I miss him) Marîd Audran series, the interplay of Islam and cyberpunk.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:43:25 -0800

hell there have been very overt Christian Sci-Fi, Lewis' Ransom Trilogy started in 1938, for example.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:56:14 -0800

...must put that George Alec Effinger FPP together...

By: edgeways

edgeways — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:01:09 -0800

Do so Artw and I'll favor it as many times as it is legal to do so in the state of Minnesota.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:31:52 -0800

It's odd that he would fail to even mention ACanticle for Leibowitz, which, while more of a takedown of religion than a paean to it, is steeped in religious tradition.

By: thivaia

thivaia — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:51:56 -0800

No mention of the temptation/guilt/atonemment/redemption cycles that also have played in in heroic literature for centuries and more recently in superhero storylines. I've always found that old trope more interesting than the chosen from birth idea, perhaps because predestination sort of squicks me out.

By: Amanojaku

Amanojaku — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:02:58 -0800

...must put that George Alec Effinger FPP together... Do it. *poke* Doo eet. *poke*

By: tkchrist

tkchrist — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:40:22 -0800

Does Science Fiction have it's roots in Religion? Or does Religion have it's roots in Science Fiction?

By: rokusan

rokusan — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:41:46 -0800

BSG is done in continuing series of arcs as opposed to a straight episode to episode manner. Yeah, sure... that and the fact that Moore and the writers happily admit they have no real plan and just make shit up as they go along, then try to "fit it in creatively." Actually, mostly the latter.

By: If only I had a penguin...

If only I had a penguin... — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:43:06 -0800

"There is a young man, different from other young men. Ancient prophecies foretell his coming, and he performs miraculous feats. Eventually, confronted by his enemies, he must sacrifice his own life—an act that saves mankind from calamity—but in a mystery as great as that of his origin, he is reborn, to preside in glory over a world redeemed." Is this science-fiction following religion or religion and science fiction both picking up the story? Cause I was taught (in Catholic school, no less) that it's Christianity's story that follows the hero archetype (also followed in any number of other genres). The Christian story is no less derivative than any other stories that follow this trope. For our grade 10 English class, every person in the class had to find and present on a story (book, movie, tv show, whatever) that followed this storyline and we had no trouble at each finding our own version. While some works may be drawing on religion (e.g. Narnia), I think often these just look like (one) religion because they're pulling from the same collective unconscious not because science fiction discovered religion.

By: Halloween Jack

Halloween Jack — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:45:54 -0800

He fails badly at not recognizing the countless religious allegories in Star Trek. Harlan Ellison once said that Gene Roddenberry had one story that he repeated numerous times: the Enterprise goes out into space and finds God, and God is either insane, a child, or both. And, of course, Deep Space Nine's lead protagonist, Benjamin Sisko, is the (very reluctant) Emissary of the Prophets, something that figures hugely in the series from the very first episode to the very last.

By: ook

ook — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:51:17 -0800

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:41:18 -0800

It was under the couch the whole time!

By: ikalliom

ikalliom — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:55:13 -0800

I thought Philip K. Dick had something to do with it.

By: thivaia

thivaia — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0800

Hell, how about Buffy the Goddamn Vampire Slayer, Angel, Supernatural, or BSG (which this guy apparently stopped watching after season one) if you want to talk about recent mainstream examples for people who don't know who Blish or Effinger or Miller (or Lessing or Sagan or le Guin or Farmer or CS Lewis or etc or etc or etc) are. Seems to me author of the article is only interested in highlighting the most obvious, boilerplate Messiah storylines. As I lamented above, this essay leaves discussing the some of the more interesting tropes, archetypes or philosophical questions raised by heroic literature vis-a-vis Sci-Fi/Fantasy. Not that it would have much of a stretch--the redemption cycle is pretty obvious (see, as a Whedonverse example, all five seasons of "Angel")--and almost anytime you start dealing with artificial/non-human life, the question of the soul is going to emerge (and whether said soul can be created or destroyed), likewise the question of free will, and of, ultimately, the nature of of good and evil. Is it a moral universe? And if not, whose (if anyone's) responsibility is it to institute morality--by rote example or by supernatural powers? Of course, most of these are not explicitly Christian issues. Pandora didn't open her box at the behest of a talking snake. Oedipus Rex was not a chapter in the Old Testament. And it certainly wasn't Jesus Christ that gave Arjuna his battlefield mojo back. I mean, the even chosen hero predates the New Testament by quite a bit. It'd be easy enough to argue that even his sorry excuse for a central premise is flawed. All of this is my long--winded attempt to agree with you that yes, there is certainly a readable essay to be written about this and no, you are right, this is not it.

By: brundlefly

brundlefly — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:09:55 -0800

That was all about religion. And hot '70s chicks in stretchy costumes. What if hot '70s chicks in stretchy costumes IS your religion? ...must put that George Alec Effinger FPP together... HOLY SHIT! Just the other day I was thinking I'd like to do exactly that! But I'm a lazy bastard, and I'd much prefer to see what someone else can do with it. If you do it be sure and give me a heads up, Artw!

By: Bernt Pancreas

Bernt Pancreas — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:12:28 -0800

Take, eat; IT'S MADE OF PEOPLE!

By: pts

pts — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:27:06 -0800

Man, somebody needs to introduce this guy to Joseph Campbell and blow his fucking mind.

By: brundlefly

brundlefly — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:38:29 -0800

pts, the writer mentions him.

By: Phanx

Phanx — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:41:59 -0800

How Science Fiction Found Religion They switched on Multivac and asked whether there was a God, and Multivac said: "There is now."

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:43:10 -0800

Multivac had to think about it for a bit.

By: naju

naju — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:52:09 -0800

ZARDOZ IS DISPLEASED

By: pts

pts — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:27:18 -0800

Whoops, joke's on me for not finishing the article. Still, he doesn't seem to have a very thorough grasp of science fiction beyond the blockbuster film level.

By: parmanparman

parmanparman — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:51:47 -0800

This is a very populist-driven article and adds little, if any, reasoning to the debate over the merits of countercultural transformation through religious means.

By: brundlefly

brundlefly — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:00:57 -0800

Whoops, joke's on me for not finishing the article. No, the joke's on me for reading as far as I did.

By: the bricabrac man

the bricabrac man — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:47:43 -0800

Did someone get paid for writing this? Because in a just world, someone would get fired for writing this.

By: egypturnash

egypturnash — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:28:08 -0800

Just for laughs, here's all the titles he mentions in this article, every time he mentions them. The Matrix Superman Returns The Matrix Superman Returns Superman Superman Spider-Man The Dark Knight Heroes The Gospel According to Science Fiction The Matrix Superman Returns Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone [the book] [Harry Potter and] the Sorcerer's Stone ~~Harry Potter and the Interminable Sequels~~ Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows [the book] The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe [the book, in the context of the film existing] Lord of the Rings ["Peter Jackson's brilliant film adaptations of..."] Star Wars Star Wars The Hero with a Thousand Faces Star Wars Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back The Return of the Jedi The Phantom Menace Star Wars The Phantom Menace Star Wars The Phantom Menace The Phantom Menace The Phantom Menace The Phantom Menace Star Wars Star Wars Star Trek Star Trek Star Wars Star Trek Star Trek Star Trek: The Next Generation Deep Space Nine Voyager Star Trek Star Trek Dune [The book!] Stranger in a Strange Land Terminator I Am Legend [A book! Which inspired three movies, namely...] The Omega Man The Last Man on Earth I Am Legend [the movie] The Day the Earth Stood Still E.T. Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek Enterprise Enterprise Battlestar Galactica "Benjamin A. Plotinsky is the managing editor of City Journal." says the author slug. And evidently thinks that actually reading science fiction is beneath him, as books pretty much only get mentioned in the context of having inspired movies. Me, I think there's another reason for the patterns he finds: lazy storytelling. When the main reason for your story's existence is all the awesome effects work you want to hang on it, you reach for the simplest, bluntest narrative tools at your disposal. Also I found the Matrix to be more Gnostic than Christian, but then again I never saw the third one because I found the second one to be utterly empty. I think I'm gonna go re-read Use of Weapons for a good solid dose of anti-Messiahness now.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:40:45 -0800

If there was never another SF film or show which had characters with special, secret magical destinies I would not be particularly upset.

By: justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow

justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:15:59 -0800

"I've had it up to here with destiny, prophecy, with God or the Gods. Look where it's left us. The ass end of nowhere." Admiral William Adama, Battlestar Galactica