The Hero of Canton, The Man They Call Jayne: the Rock Remix
April 9, 2009 8:20 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
"This must be what going mad feels like."
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:31 PM on April 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:31 PM on April 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
"meh"
A band's video on Youtube, alink to their myspace....weak.
Didn't like the music, the video...and didn't care for firefly.
posted by Catblack at 8:54 PM on April 9, 2009
A band's video on Youtube, alink to their myspace....weak.
Didn't like the music, the video...and didn't care for firefly.
posted by Catblack at 8:54 PM on April 9, 2009
Granted, the YouTube video sucked, but it prodded me to clickety-click to find out more about the guy who performed the Firefly theme song. Turns out that he's an old blues legend, a child of sharecroppers, born in Smithville, Texas, in my own home state. Introducing...Sonny Rhodes.
posted by buzzbash at 9:44 PM on April 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by buzzbash at 9:44 PM on April 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
posted by erniepan at 9:57 PM on April 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by erniepan at 9:57 PM on April 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
"A man walks down the street in that hat; People know he's not afraid of anything"
Damn you Fox!
posted by Mitheral at 10:32 PM on April 9, 2009
Damn you Fox!
posted by Mitheral at 10:32 PM on April 9, 2009
Give it up people. Whedon has moved on, maybe you should to.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:07 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by P.o.B. at 12:07 AM on April 10, 2009
Yes, "moved on". Whedon is on the verge of having another one of his shows canceled by Fox. They just decided to not show the last episode (#13) of Dollhouse.
posted by amuseDetachment at 3:31 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by amuseDetachment at 3:31 AM on April 10, 2009
WHAT?! Effing asshats! Dollhouse was just starting to get good. I was really hoping he was going to develop the show, and main character, as an open question into the makeup of a person.
I kind of figured that would happen though. For some reason that show didn't have the fanboy appeal.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:49 AM on April 10, 2009
I kind of figured that would happen though. For some reason that show didn't have the fanboy appeal.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:49 AM on April 10, 2009
For some reason
The reason is that it sucks. It has none of the humor and heart of it's predecessors. The main character is deliberately not a character at all. Even the obligatory 'Eliza Dushku in skimpy clothing' -scenes fail to titillate. I don't know why. The Dollhouse is a neat concept but in my opinion better suited for a movie. I'd probably like that movie, too. But as a tv-show, it doesn't work.
posted by Authorized User at 5:05 AM on April 10, 2009
The reason is that it sucks. It has none of the humor and heart of it's predecessors. The main character is deliberately not a character at all. Even the obligatory 'Eliza Dushku in skimpy clothing' -scenes fail to titillate. I don't know why. The Dollhouse is a neat concept but in my opinion better suited for a movie. I'd probably like that movie, too. But as a tv-show, it doesn't work.
posted by Authorized User at 5:05 AM on April 10, 2009
Authorized User: Have you been watching the show? Every episode? The last three or so have been freakin' fantastic.
Whedon should have known better to go with Fox again.
posted by King Bee at 5:23 AM on April 10, 2009
Whedon should have known better to go with Fox again.
posted by King Bee at 5:23 AM on April 10, 2009
...*sigh* it's all Felica's fault. :)
But no, the show is not yet canceled.
Everyone: stop panicking.
posted by Asim at 5:30 AM on April 10, 2009
But no, the show is not yet canceled.
Everyone: stop panicking.
posted by Asim at 5:30 AM on April 10, 2009
It's not canceled, yet - but it still sucks.
Whedon should have known better to go with Fox again.
The show wouldn't have existed without Fox. Eliza Dushku had a development deal with them. She brought Joss to the table. He created the series for her and Fox.
He still should have known better, but it's not like he really had much choice. All his TV shows finished, then he made Serenity and that tanked. Then he sold a script called "Goners" which he was attached to direct, but that was put on the backburner. Then he was writing a screenplay for Warner Bros "Wonder Woman" and they decided to go in a different direction - which ended up meaning they aren't making a Wonder Woman film now.
So when Eliza and Fox came along, what else was he going to do?
Problem is, he created a series that doesn't work as a series. And works directly against the kind of thing that Fox likes - young pretty girls wearing nothing much and kick arse action. Which is something Whedon used to excel at, except he's compromised that with a lack of humour and a main cast of characters who have no character. And I'm not just talking about the dolls.
And yet his fans seem to think he's above reproach and are surprised that Dollhouse is tanking even though it's been in trouble ever since he had to shoot a pilot that he says he wasn't happy with but, in truth, was probably too cerebral for Fox. Read: not enough action.
I remember when Joss Whedon was good. This post reminds me of that, but naming your band Browncoats and doing a cover of "The Hero of Canton"? That's just sad.
posted by crossoverman at 5:45 AM on April 10, 2009
Whedon should have known better to go with Fox again.
The show wouldn't have existed without Fox. Eliza Dushku had a development deal with them. She brought Joss to the table. He created the series for her and Fox.
He still should have known better, but it's not like he really had much choice. All his TV shows finished, then he made Serenity and that tanked. Then he sold a script called "Goners" which he was attached to direct, but that was put on the backburner. Then he was writing a screenplay for Warner Bros "Wonder Woman" and they decided to go in a different direction - which ended up meaning they aren't making a Wonder Woman film now.
So when Eliza and Fox came along, what else was he going to do?
Problem is, he created a series that doesn't work as a series. And works directly against the kind of thing that Fox likes - young pretty girls wearing nothing much and kick arse action. Which is something Whedon used to excel at, except he's compromised that with a lack of humour and a main cast of characters who have no character. And I'm not just talking about the dolls.
And yet his fans seem to think he's above reproach and are surprised that Dollhouse is tanking even though it's been in trouble ever since he had to shoot a pilot that he says he wasn't happy with but, in truth, was probably too cerebral for Fox. Read: not enough action.
I remember when Joss Whedon was good. This post reminds me of that, but naming your band Browncoats and doing a cover of "The Hero of Canton"? That's just sad.
posted by crossoverman at 5:45 AM on April 10, 2009
Problem is, he created a series that doesn't work as a series.
I have trouble with people who say this. I feel like they're parroting what they're reading on the net, and they're not watching the show. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you watching the show? Before you can properly critique a television show, I think you should have to watch it.
...he's compromised that with a lack of humour and a main cast of characters who have no character.
The episode where all the handlers are suddenly on some kind of LSD drug had a lot of the Whedon-esque humor. The scene in a previous episode where Topher is having trouble explaining to Dr. Saunders that one of the dolls had an erection is hilarious.
And yet his fans seem to think he's above reproach...
Look, I don't think Whedon is above reproach. Serenity was a letdown, but not a complete failure. Anyway, I think the show is really starting to pick up finally. The first handful of episodes were a little meh, but the last three have been really riveting.
posted by King Bee at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2009
I have trouble with people who say this. I feel like they're parroting what they're reading on the net, and they're not watching the show. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you watching the show? Before you can properly critique a television show, I think you should have to watch it.
...he's compromised that with a lack of humour and a main cast of characters who have no character.
The episode where all the handlers are suddenly on some kind of LSD drug had a lot of the Whedon-esque humor. The scene in a previous episode where Topher is having trouble explaining to Dr. Saunders that one of the dolls had an erection is hilarious.
And yet his fans seem to think he's above reproach...
Look, I don't think Whedon is above reproach. Serenity was a letdown, but not a complete failure. Anyway, I think the show is really starting to pick up finally. The first handful of episodes were a little meh, but the last three have been really riveting.
posted by King Bee at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2009
Authorized User: Have you been watching the show? Every episode? The last three or so have been freakin' fantastic.
I do find it somewhat insulting that you would think I was criticizing something that I've seen, but let's move on from that.
Indeed the last three episodes have been a marked improvement. The funny episode where everyone was acting very much out of character both acknowledged and underlined the lack of humor in the show. The plot-line of an inside mole programming Echo to contact Special Agent Grouchy Ballard gives us an actual, recurring, Echo character in the shape of his undercover persona. It also allows Ballard to have actual contact with the rest of the cast. Hopefully they won't have to introduce anymore glitches and anomalies and such that, as the show acknowledged, would have led to Echo being removed from duty many times now. They even managed to make us care about the prostitution gig of the week by making the john an actual character.
But the main problems still persist. The dollhouse staff characters, the characters with the most mutual screentime, are not compelling. There is not enough and not compelling enough, action for it work as an action show. And most importantly, the dollhouse missions don't provide enough excitement episode-to-episode. Viewers find themselves not caring about whether the nerd managed to program the active well-enough to succeed.
posted by Authorized User at 6:01 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I do find it somewhat insulting that you would think I was criticizing something that I've seen, but let's move on from that.
Indeed the last three episodes have been a marked improvement. The funny episode where everyone was acting very much out of character both acknowledged and underlined the lack of humor in the show. The plot-line of an inside mole programming Echo to contact Special Agent Grouchy Ballard gives us an actual, recurring, Echo character in the shape of his undercover persona. It also allows Ballard to have actual contact with the rest of the cast. Hopefully they won't have to introduce anymore glitches and anomalies and such that, as the show acknowledged, would have led to Echo being removed from duty many times now. They even managed to make us care about the prostitution gig of the week by making the john an actual character.
But the main problems still persist. The dollhouse staff characters, the characters with the most mutual screentime, are not compelling. There is not enough and not compelling enough, action for it work as an action show. And most importantly, the dollhouse missions don't provide enough excitement episode-to-episode. Viewers find themselves not caring about whether the nerd managed to program the active well-enough to succeed.
posted by Authorized User at 6:01 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
FANBOY SLAPFIGHT!!!
posted by backseatpilot at 6:05 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by backseatpilot at 6:05 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Seriously, though, I watched the first few episodes of Dollhouse and was not hugely impressed. The rest are languishing on my DVR, so maybe I'll run through them this weekend.
If Whedon could get a full-length series on the teevee that had similar stylings and comedy value to Doctor Horrible, I would be all over that.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:07 AM on April 10, 2009
If Whedon could get a full-length series on the teevee that had similar stylings and comedy value to Doctor Horrible, I would be all over that.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:07 AM on April 10, 2009
I'm actually not that much of a fan of Whedon at all, and have kind of an aversion to fanboy grovelling mentality that seems to have sprouted around him. Wasn't that big of a fan of his previous shows. So I have reasons why I like the show over Firefly and Buffy, but it's not Dushku.
a main cast of characters who have no character.
That's the point. It's a fantastic idea if you think about, and if you can't think of why then your missing what's staring you in the face.
The only thing I wish he would do is arc the stories over a few episodes.
Another thing, it's only nine episodes in. As I recall Whedon's other shows were a little slow to start also.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:09 AM on April 10, 2009
a main cast of characters who have no character.
That's the point. It's a fantastic idea if you think about, and if you can't think of why then your missing what's staring you in the face.
The only thing I wish he would do is arc the stories over a few episodes.
Another thing, it's only nine episodes in. As I recall Whedon's other shows were a little slow to start also.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:09 AM on April 10, 2009
Authorized User: Didn't mean to offend. In many conversations with others who were raising the same objections as you I've found that they had not been watching the show, only reading about it on the net.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I find Boyd to be a compelling character who I would love to see developed more. The fact that Dr. Saunders is seemingly conflicted about her position (yet she continues to do it) is interesting. The storyline about how Sierra's handler was sexually abusing her and the "trap" that Boyd set for him was cool. The way that the Dollhouse staff punished this handler was innovative and surprising.
posted by King Bee at 6:16 AM on April 10, 2009
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I find Boyd to be a compelling character who I would love to see developed more. The fact that Dr. Saunders is seemingly conflicted about her position (yet she continues to do it) is interesting. The storyline about how Sierra's handler was sexually abusing her and the "trap" that Boyd set for him was cool. The way that the Dollhouse staff punished this handler was innovative and surprising.
posted by King Bee at 6:16 AM on April 10, 2009
Another thing, it's only nine episodes in.
Yeah I'm giving it a chance.
Also one thing I missed out. Eliza Dushku just can't carry the show. She is ok, but not good enough to save the show. Many a borderline show is saved by the strength of the main lead alone. Dushku has been consistently overshadowed by the other doll actors, (Victor as a horny blank slate, as a miffed DEA agent or as russian mob informant and Sierra as abuse victim.)
In fact, if Victor was the main Doll to follow, the show would be so much better. Instead of the prostitution-vibe, the dollhouse missions would have a programmed super agent vibe (escapist fantasies based on magic trick to make yourself superdude and forget all your problems. Talk about your fanboy appeal). In fact, that change could be done with Echo as well. Less serious sex encounter with johns that have issues. More kicking ass in skimpy clothing for clients who are not lame. Even Fox would be happy with that. Victor's empty slate persona is all much more appealing. He is like a puppy. Echo is more like a literal slate.
I find Boyd to be a compelling character who I would love to see developed more.
To me, he is not a compelling character until he is developed more.
The fact that Dr. Saunders is seemingly conflicted about her position (yet she continues to do it) is interesting.
It seems to me most of the dollhouse staff we've seen are conflicted. Boyd is conflicted. Doctor Saunders is conflicted. Whoever it is who is sending Echo out to contact Ballard is conflicted.
posted by Authorized User at 6:24 AM on April 10, 2009
Yeah I'm giving it a chance.
Also one thing I missed out. Eliza Dushku just can't carry the show. She is ok, but not good enough to save the show. Many a borderline show is saved by the strength of the main lead alone. Dushku has been consistently overshadowed by the other doll actors, (Victor as a horny blank slate, as a miffed DEA agent or as russian mob informant and Sierra as abuse victim.)
In fact, if Victor was the main Doll to follow, the show would be so much better. Instead of the prostitution-vibe, the dollhouse missions would have a programmed super agent vibe (escapist fantasies based on magic trick to make yourself superdude and forget all your problems. Talk about your fanboy appeal). In fact, that change could be done with Echo as well. Less serious sex encounter with johns that have issues. More kicking ass in skimpy clothing for clients who are not lame. Even Fox would be happy with that. Victor's empty slate persona is all much more appealing. He is like a puppy. Echo is more like a literal slate.
I find Boyd to be a compelling character who I would love to see developed more.
To me, he is not a compelling character until he is developed more.
The fact that Dr. Saunders is seemingly conflicted about her position (yet she continues to do it) is interesting.
It seems to me most of the dollhouse staff we've seen are conflicted. Boyd is conflicted. Doctor Saunders is conflicted. Whoever it is who is sending Echo out to contact Ballard is conflicted.
posted by Authorized User at 6:24 AM on April 10, 2009
I guess it comes down to: I like the show, you don't. You do make some valid points.
Sorry about the spoilers above. In the age of DVR, television ain't what it used to be.
posted by King Bee at 6:33 AM on April 10, 2009
Sorry about the spoilers above. In the age of DVR, television ain't what it used to be.
posted by King Bee at 6:33 AM on April 10, 2009
The Browncoats (not the band) wiki has a list of other FFFilk. And then, of course, there's The Signal podcast's Songs From the Black.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:42 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:42 AM on April 10, 2009
Another thing, it's only nine episodes in.
I think it's totally fair to give a show one episode to prove itself, but maybe I'm too harsh. If you don't like something, how many episodes do you give it? I quit Dollhouse after two and a half episodes of suckitude. I don't have five hours to wait for something to get good.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2009
I think it's totally fair to give a show one episode to prove itself, but maybe I'm too harsh. If you don't like something, how many episodes do you give it? I quit Dollhouse after two and a half episodes of suckitude. I don't have five hours to wait for something to get good.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:04 AM on April 10, 2009
I don't, unfortunately, know of any Dollhouse filk...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:11 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:11 AM on April 10, 2009
Yes, I loved Firefly. I gave away sets of the episodes. I took people to Serenity. It's over, though. Way over. Which makes me ask, how can anyone possibly "WHAT?" about the probable cancellation of Dollhouse?
1) It's the Fox network. They are notorious for the cancellation of shows in as few episodes as possible. They cancel shows and then do not even show the completed episodes for which they have already paid, that's how hard they cancel a show. That's like lighting half a million one dollar bills on fire as an advertisement to get you to come look at whatever shiny new reality TV with which they are replacing the canceled series.
2) It's Joss Whedon. Cancellation of Firefly, a show which wasn't so much suddenly murdered so much as it was the victim of a slow gaslighting campaign from the get-to. Surprise cancellation of Angel, despite just having a "100 episodes, woot!' party. Wonder Woman? Yoink! Goners? Well, who knows? He's a trifle cursed right now.
3) The fans started a "Don't Cancel Dollhouse" campaign before the first show even aired. What does that tell you?
If Joss' stalwart fans wish to do something constructive, they should campaign for him to do a series on HBO or Showtime.
posted by adipocere at 8:34 AM on April 10, 2009
1) It's the Fox network. They are notorious for the cancellation of shows in as few episodes as possible. They cancel shows and then do not even show the completed episodes for which they have already paid, that's how hard they cancel a show. That's like lighting half a million one dollar bills on fire as an advertisement to get you to come look at whatever shiny new reality TV with which they are replacing the canceled series.
2) It's Joss Whedon. Cancellation of Firefly, a show which wasn't so much suddenly murdered so much as it was the victim of a slow gaslighting campaign from the get-to. Surprise cancellation of Angel, despite just having a "100 episodes, woot!' party. Wonder Woman? Yoink! Goners? Well, who knows? He's a trifle cursed right now.
3) The fans started a "Don't Cancel Dollhouse" campaign before the first show even aired. What does that tell you?
If Joss' stalwart fans wish to do something constructive, they should campaign for him to do a series on HBO or Showtime.
posted by adipocere at 8:34 AM on April 10, 2009
I find Boyd to be a compelling character who I would love to see developed more.
I think this is mostly because Harry Lennix is far and away the best actor on the show. He really invests the character with something real and relatable, while many of the other actors just sort of do that Joss Whedony thing where they let the dialogue do most of the heavy lifting. Enver Gjokaj (Victor) and Dichen Lachman (Sierra) also turn in some pretty good performances, I think because they really manage to make the most of the range the roles give them.
(Unfortunately, as a fellow Mefite pointed out to me in real life, Sierra looks a little too much like this guy.)
My biggest problem with "Echoes" was that, once the drug took effect on the more "serious" characters, it turned into that whole "crazy characters walk around muttering nonsense that makes them sound like River Tam or Tara after Glory put the whammy on her" thing that Joss Whedon is good at writing, but his writers have a harder time with. As a result, it just seemed like an episode played for laughs, instead of what it was, which was a key piece of the series' mythology. If you're gonna do that, at least go the Ron Moore route and involve John Hodgman somehow.
posted by hifiparasol at 9:03 AM on April 10, 2009
I think this is mostly because Harry Lennix is far and away the best actor on the show. He really invests the character with something real and relatable, while many of the other actors just sort of do that Joss Whedony thing where they let the dialogue do most of the heavy lifting. Enver Gjokaj (Victor) and Dichen Lachman (Sierra) also turn in some pretty good performances, I think because they really manage to make the most of the range the roles give them.
(Unfortunately, as a fellow Mefite pointed out to me in real life, Sierra looks a little too much like this guy.)
My biggest problem with "Echoes" was that, once the drug took effect on the more "serious" characters, it turned into that whole "crazy characters walk around muttering nonsense that makes them sound like River Tam or Tara after Glory put the whammy on her" thing that Joss Whedon is good at writing, but his writers have a harder time with. As a result, it just seemed like an episode played for laughs, instead of what it was, which was a key piece of the series' mythology. If you're gonna do that, at least go the Ron Moore route and involve John Hodgman somehow.
posted by hifiparasol at 9:03 AM on April 10, 2009
If Joss' stalwart fans wish to do something constructive, they should campaign for him to do a series on HBO or Showtime.
THIS.
posted by cereselle at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
THIS.
posted by cereselle at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think it's totally fair to give a show one episode to prove itself
As an example, pretty much every person I've talked to said the first episode of Firefly sucked including people who loved that show. Now my personal opinion(so no need for a nerd spazz here) is that a good two-thirds of Firefly sucked, but YMMV and all that. I stuck it out and watched it through and thought Whedon had pushed it in a good direction later in the season.
Unless you totally hate the concept, yeah, you have to give a tv show at least half of the first season. Hell, I was surprised people are still really into Lost. I watched the whole first season, and really liked it but thought it was ridiculous that it just kept raising more and more questions without answers. Did I have to wait years for a payoff?
I know people who don't like sweets, so I'm sure you have your own tastes. But I'd rather hear a reason why something sucks instead of the same reasoning every mag lists. Like there is no characters, like I said your missing the point if you think that's all there is to that idea (beside the fact the show was developed around that idea anyway).
Without hopefully spoiling anything, the show has developed past the blank slate stuff at this point.
One last thing, I thought the first show was pretty damn solid.
Mitheral: Different scenario here. I don't think anybody is against common courtesy in that department, especially since we are talking about a show that is kind of but not related to to the main post.
posted by P.o.B. at 9:09 AM on April 10, 2009
As an example, pretty much every person I've talked to said the first episode of Firefly sucked including people who loved that show. Now my personal opinion(so no need for a nerd spazz here) is that a good two-thirds of Firefly sucked, but YMMV and all that. I stuck it out and watched it through and thought Whedon had pushed it in a good direction later in the season.
Unless you totally hate the concept, yeah, you have to give a tv show at least half of the first season. Hell, I was surprised people are still really into Lost. I watched the whole first season, and really liked it but thought it was ridiculous that it just kept raising more and more questions without answers. Did I have to wait years for a payoff?
I know people who don't like sweets, so I'm sure you have your own tastes. But I'd rather hear a reason why something sucks instead of the same reasoning every mag lists. Like there is no characters, like I said your missing the point if you think that's all there is to that idea (beside the fact the show was developed around that idea anyway).
Without hopefully spoiling anything, the show has developed past the blank slate stuff at this point.
One last thing, I thought the first show was pretty damn solid.
Mitheral: Different scenario here. I don't think anybody is against common courtesy in that department, especially since we are talking about a show that is kind of but not related to to the main post.
posted by P.o.B. at 9:09 AM on April 10, 2009
I meant the first show of Dollhouse was solid. I think there has been a few meh episodes though.
posted by P.o.B. at 9:18 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by P.o.B. at 9:18 AM on April 10, 2009
I've refused to watch Dollhouse based on the fact that Fox consistently cancels the shows that I like, and I won't give anything they air a chance until it's got a full season under its belt and has been picked up for another.
I'm not going to get burned by them any more.
Eliza Dushku... skimpy clothing
*ahem*
I'll be in my bunk.
posted by quin at 9:45 AM on April 10, 2009
I'm not going to get burned by them any more.
Eliza Dushku... skimpy clothing
*ahem*
I'll be in my bunk.
posted by quin at 9:45 AM on April 10, 2009
I'm a Whedon fangirl/apologist, and I loved everything about "Firefly." I'll just get that out of the way.
I don't think either Eliza Dushku or Tahmoh Penikett are strong actors. They are very, very pretty, but they seem to rely on three emotions - angry, confused, or angrily confused - and I don't really give a shit about what happens to their characters. I've enjoyed how past few episodes have dropped the "Hostage Negotiator Spice" or "Safecracker Spice" storylines - and with them, the Echo-centric plots - in favor of stories about the Dollhouse itself. If I view the show as less about Echo and Ballard as protagonists fighting a shadowy organization and more about the exploits of a bunch of morally ambiguous characters repeatedly fucking with these idiots, it's a lot more fun to watch. Go Team Adelle!
Lord, that episode with the singer sunk to community-theater levels of horrible.
Ultimately, I don't care if Dollhouse goes away. Shows I enjoy usually don't last more than one season ("Firefly," "Freaks and Geeks," "Pushing Daisies"), but maybe that's a good thing. Those show that do survive tend to lose their narrative coherence (They had no fucking plan!) or quality of writing after a few seasons. My favorite Whedon project was probably "Dr Horrible's Sing-a-Long Blog," in part because of the actors and the humor, but mostly because its short format and definite end date gave it a complete, focused narrative. I wouldn't mind if more shows began to follow the model of a 5-10 episode progression instead of an extended series that wouldn't have its story truncated or diffused over time.
posted by bibliowench at 10:18 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think either Eliza Dushku or Tahmoh Penikett are strong actors. They are very, very pretty, but they seem to rely on three emotions - angry, confused, or angrily confused - and I don't really give a shit about what happens to their characters. I've enjoyed how past few episodes have dropped the "Hostage Negotiator Spice" or "Safecracker Spice" storylines - and with them, the Echo-centric plots - in favor of stories about the Dollhouse itself. If I view the show as less about Echo and Ballard as protagonists fighting a shadowy organization and more about the exploits of a bunch of morally ambiguous characters repeatedly fucking with these idiots, it's a lot more fun to watch. Go Team Adelle!
Lord, that episode with the singer sunk to community-theater levels of horrible.
Ultimately, I don't care if Dollhouse goes away. Shows I enjoy usually don't last more than one season ("Firefly," "Freaks and Geeks," "Pushing Daisies"), but maybe that's a good thing. Those show that do survive tend to lose their narrative coherence (They had no fucking plan!) or quality of writing after a few seasons. My favorite Whedon project was probably "Dr Horrible's Sing-a-Long Blog," in part because of the actors and the humor, but mostly because its short format and definite end date gave it a complete, focused narrative. I wouldn't mind if more shows began to follow the model of a 5-10 episode progression instead of an extended series that wouldn't have its story truncated or diffused over time.
posted by bibliowench at 10:18 AM on April 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah I have to agree with bibliowench about the us network tv format needing to be truncated. A lot of good talent is wasted trying to fill 22 45 minute episodes. British television and US cable shows have 6-10 episode seasons of 60 minute episodes. This lessens the need for filler.
posted by Authorized User at 11:14 AM on April 10, 2009
posted by Authorized User at 11:14 AM on April 10, 2009
Unless you totally hate the concept, yeah, you have to give a tv show at least half of the first season.
I don't think I have the patience for that anymore. Watched at broadcast that's 5-11 hours for a drama show. Even tivo'd or torrented with the ads pulled out it's still a hell of a time commitment. I generally don't give a bad book more than about 70 pages to get good either.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:22 AM on April 10, 2009
I don't think I have the patience for that anymore. Watched at broadcast that's 5-11 hours for a drama show. Even tivo'd or torrented with the ads pulled out it's still a hell of a time commitment. I generally don't give a bad book more than about 70 pages to get good either.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:22 AM on April 10, 2009
My wife is a big Firefly fan. She's a knitter and created a pattern for a Jayne hat. Maybe if I watched this video a second time I'd inderstand it (stimulus?). I'll show it to my wife and have her tell me if it makes sense.
posted by CCBC at 1:16 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by CCBC at 1:16 PM on April 10, 2009
Dollhouse just confuses me, because I love its cast (yes, Faith and Helo, but Harry Lennix? really??? Jesus Christ, that guy is awesome...if you haven't ever, pass up three hours of bad television and watch this), love its writing staff, and can't even sit through it. It is true that Buffy and Angel both start out pretty damn awkward, but not that awkward. I only lasted an episode and a half, I'm sad to say. I wish only that Whedon would do a completely different show with all the same people.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:25 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:25 PM on April 10, 2009
"As an example, pretty much every person I've talked to said the first episode of Firefly sucked including people who loved that show."
Of course it sucked; Fox aired the episodes out of order including showing the second episode first. They had to hack a bunch of character introduction into the Train Job that didn't fit and was done better in Serenity. The whole episode your asking who the smeg are these people.
posted by Mitheral at 8:19 PM on April 10, 2009
Of course it sucked; Fox aired the episodes out of order including showing the second episode first. They had to hack a bunch of character introduction into the Train Job that didn't fit and was done better in Serenity. The whole episode your asking who the smeg are these people.
posted by Mitheral at 8:19 PM on April 10, 2009
Have you watched the first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer recently? So terrible. Today, most people just remember the later (better) seasons (that and Once More With Feeling).
Whedon shows works best by having an ensemble cast with a clear history and motivations. He tells stories, not plots. It's about the character, not what's going to happen next. That kind of storytelling doesn't work if you don't know the characters. Sierra and Victor weren't even really characters in the beginning, now they're fleshed out and you really root for what they do and understand them. That kind of storytelling doesn't work well in the beginning. You can also see how Dollhouse is building that ensemble "Scooby Gang" like they did in Buffy (especially last week's episode and the episode "Man on the Street").
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:49 PM on April 10, 2009
Whedon shows works best by having an ensemble cast with a clear history and motivations. He tells stories, not plots. It's about the character, not what's going to happen next. That kind of storytelling doesn't work if you don't know the characters. Sierra and Victor weren't even really characters in the beginning, now they're fleshed out and you really root for what they do and understand them. That kind of storytelling doesn't work well in the beginning. You can also see how Dollhouse is building that ensemble "Scooby Gang" like they did in Buffy (especially last week's episode and the episode "Man on the Street").
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:49 PM on April 10, 2009
Of course it sucked; Fox aired the episodes out of order including showing the second episode first.
No, they showed the second first episode first. The only thing that screwed everyone up was the River-in-a-box bit in the opening.
There were a lot of bad decisions on Fox's part, but airing the Train Job first was way, waaaaaaaaaaay down the list.
Also, there was music.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:06 PM on April 10, 2009
No, they showed the second first episode first. The only thing that screwed everyone up was the River-in-a-box bit in the opening.
There were a lot of bad decisions on Fox's part, but airing the Train Job first was way, waaaaaaaaaaay down the list.
Also, there was music.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:06 PM on April 10, 2009
I figured someone would call me on that, but my point should be even more obvious. Yeah, sometimes first episodes suck or don't make sense. So no, I don't think it's to much to ask for that people give it a more than one episode (and yes I did say give it a half a season, but I also understand a lot of people don't have that much patience).
posted by P.o.B. at 10:19 PM on April 10, 2009
posted by P.o.B. at 10:19 PM on April 10, 2009
Well, shit. After last night episodes, I'm liking "Dollhouse" a lot more. Hopefully, the last three episodes will suck again, so I can resume my ambivalence about the show's fate.
posted by bibliowench at 10:51 AM on April 11, 2009
posted by bibliowench at 10:51 AM on April 11, 2009
I spent Easter weekend at a Sci-Fi convention and this was probably my favorite costume.
posted by Tenuki at 12:10 AM on April 15, 2009
posted by Tenuki at 12:10 AM on April 15, 2009
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