Fake Rapture.
May 5, 2009 11:26 AM Subscribe
Yes, I am totally ready for the Illuminati to stage a fake rapture. It would be so much more entertaining than the swine flu.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:29 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by kuujjuarapik at 11:29 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
LOLXTIANS much? yawn...
posted by prototype_octavius at 11:33 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by prototype_octavius at 11:33 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Some funny stuff.
So the Xtians made you lol, then?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:33 AM on May 5, 2009
So the Xtians made you lol, then?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:33 AM on May 5, 2009
So, this is what happens when people keep predicting the end of the world but the world obstinately refuses to listen to them - they start saying this is the FAKE end of the world, so be prepared for the REAL end which shall be here shortly.
This way, when it doesn't end, they can just blame Global Conspiracy for fooling them. BUT NEXT TIME IT'S FOR REAL WE PROMISE.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:34 AM on May 5, 2009
This way, when it doesn't end, they can just blame Global Conspiracy for fooling them. BUT NEXT TIME IT'S FOR REAL WE PROMISE.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:34 AM on May 5, 2009
I'd like to see them try that Katerina Witt thing with golf coverage--I think it would make for a program so relaxing that it could be used to sedate people for surgery.
posted by box at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
As hosted by the ever popular cuttingedgeministries.net. These folks do an awful lot of typing, considering they don't have any thumbs.
posted by PuppyCat at 11:36 AM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by PuppyCat at 11:36 AM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
I Want To Believe (in something) (in a thing called love)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:36 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by filthy light thief at 11:36 AM on May 5, 2009
TIMECROSS
posted by dersins at 11:38 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by dersins at 11:38 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
How to tell if a rapture was fake:
I'm good(TM). If I wasn't raptured, it was fake.
The end.
posted by qvantamon at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm good(TM). If I wasn't raptured, it was fake.
The end.
posted by qvantamon at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
LOLXTIANS much?
No, and I wouldn't say this interesting subculture is representative of capital-X Xtians.
posted by univac at 11:40 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
No, and I wouldn't say this interesting subculture is representative of capital-X Xtians.
posted by univac at 11:40 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I used to think LOLXTIANS was lame and overplayed, but the LOLLOLXTIANS backlash is rapidly assuming kneejerk proportions 'round here. We get it, you're tolerant. Stop trying to score points with languagehat or whomever already.
Also: this is not funny, it's pretty sad.
CRYXTIANS?
posted by joe lisboa at 11:40 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also: this is not funny, it's pretty sad.
CRYXTIANS?
posted by joe lisboa at 11:40 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow, what an exciting ARG!
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:41 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:41 AM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Or, rather: just as I don't get my knickers in a twist every time some trust fund kid with a Che t-shirt makes my own political preferences seem absurd, I don't cry LOLMARXISTS. I chalk it up to there being a certain percentage of any faith/ideology/perspective that are either in it for the "wrong reasons" (whatever that might mean) or are terminally stupid. Those quick to call LOLXTIANS should reflect a second before assuming the OP intended to whip out that big ol' brush or whether, you know, you're thin-skinned and projecting.
posted by joe lisboa at 11:44 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by joe lisboa at 11:44 AM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Artificial Thought & Communication - Each religion’s “god” will speak as a hologram to its people in their own language. Telepathic and electronically augmented two-way communication, such-as ELF, VLF and LF waves will reach each person from within his or her own mind, convincing each of them that their own god is speaking to them from the very depths of their own soul.
I'm pretty sure if this technology actually existed, rather than my "god" speaking to me as part of a government conspiracy, it would instead be that creepy Burger King guy telling me I can Have It My Way® and to be sure to check out the BK Value Menu.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:45 AM on May 5, 2009 [9 favorites]
I'm pretty sure if this technology actually existed, rather than my "god" speaking to me as part of a government conspiracy, it would instead be that creepy Burger King guy telling me I can Have It My Way® and to be sure to check out the BK Value Menu.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:45 AM on May 5, 2009 [9 favorites]
The things people find time to worry about...
posted by Ogre Lawless at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by Ogre Lawless at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2009
Now I want to join the Illuminati, because, if they are really planning a fake Rapture, that shit's HILARIOUS.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2009 [30 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:46 AM on May 5, 2009 [30 favorites]
Thinking about XIAN versus XTIAN has led me to look up this video on Youtube. Dammit.
posted by box at 11:47 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by box at 11:47 AM on May 5, 2009
I really don't think I was ready for the content in that link when I clicked on it.
... I'm gonna go lie down for awhile.
posted by Lacking Subtlety at 11:49 AM on May 5, 2009
... I'm gonna go lie down for awhile.
posted by Lacking Subtlety at 11:49 AM on May 5, 2009
Jesus is not artificial, or spooky.
I beg to differ.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:51 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I beg to differ.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:51 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Back in college, my friends an I attended the Church of Alientology in Christ an associated Church of the Holy Tabernacle Ministries, aka Nuwaubianism, followers of Malachi Z. "Dr. Love" "Imam Issa" York.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:54 AM on May 5, 2009
posted by Pollomacho at 11:54 AM on May 5, 2009
Now that Geocities is gone, I predict big things for Angelfire.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 11:54 AM on May 5, 2009 [12 favorites]
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 11:54 AM on May 5, 2009 [12 favorites]
If this technology actually existed, there is absolutely no way it would have remained a secret for the whole of its development - can you imagine what incredibly badass games could arise from the ability to fill the sky with holograms? The Illuminati Conspirators (how precious) would need the world's finest 3d modelers, and they're all working for game developers and special-effects outfits. We're to believe that not one programmer from Valve or Industrial Light and Magic would have tried sneaking some of this stuff into one of their projects? If Holodeck-level simulation is available, you can be damn sure it would be applied to Half Life 3 or making a Clone Wars movie that didn't suck ass long before it would be used to fake a rapture.
Also, I always forget that apocalyptiphiles actually think the "New Age" movement is out to get them. I live in Olympia, WA, folks, "New Age" capitol of the Great Northwest. We're planning to inhale huge clouds of marijuana at vegan potlucks, which doesn't leave us a lot of time to come after you with a big old holoChrist.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:58 AM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Also, I always forget that apocalyptiphiles actually think the "New Age" movement is out to get them. I live in Olympia, WA, folks, "New Age" capitol of the Great Northwest. We're planning to inhale huge clouds of marijuana at vegan potlucks, which doesn't leave us a lot of time to come after you with a big old holoChrist.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:58 AM on May 5, 2009 [5 favorites]
Why do people keep putting a T in xians? Do you also mail xtmas cards?
posted by ODiV at 11:58 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ODiV at 11:58 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I sometimes fake rapture, if it's getting late and I've had enough already.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:59 AM on May 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:59 AM on May 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
This would make a good plot for a movie.
posted by Houstonian at 11:59 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Houstonian at 11:59 AM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Why do people keep putting a T in xians? Do you also mail xtmas cards?
Xt, what an asshole.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 12:00 PM on May 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
Xt, what an asshole.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 12:00 PM on May 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
LOLMUNATI
posted by DU at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by DU at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
Sounds like a job for Improv Everywhere...
posted by Rhaomi at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
needs the timecube tag, methinks
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:02 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
You know a site is holy and true if it hasn't succumbed to the satanic plot of style sheets.
Keep the faith brothers!
posted by sarcasman at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Keep the faith brothers!
posted by sarcasman at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
If this technology actually existed, there is absolutely no way it would have remained a secret for the whole of its development - can you imagine what incredibly badass games could arise from the ability to fill the sky with holograms?
But unfortunately, it would only take about, a week before Coca-Cola and Nike bought all the available sky real estate.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2009
But unfortunately, it would only take about, a week before Coca-Cola and Nike bought all the available sky real estate.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:05 PM on May 5, 2009
7. Apple, Inc., priced their first computer at $666 to demonstrate the occult basis of computer technology.
LOL gud thing ur hosted by ANGELfier and not DEVLfier amirite?
posted by uncleozzy at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2009
LOL gud thing ur hosted by ANGELfier and not DEVLfier amirite?
posted by uncleozzy at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2009
Where the hell is the batshitinsane tag!?
posted by orville sash at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by orville sash at 12:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
From Six Feet Under, the dangers of a false Rapture.
posted by Ber at 12:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 12:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Xt, what an asshole.
Wouldn't that be XP?
Not a Windows joke.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:09 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't that be XP?
Not a Windows joke.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:09 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I know this projection technology exists because I saw a picture of the Miguel signal on the internet.
posted by Cranberry at 12:10 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Cranberry at 12:10 PM on May 5, 2009
OK EVERYONE THAT WAS JUST A DRILL. YOU ALL DID VERY WELL
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
KirkJobSluder - Holy crap would that be heinous. If such a thing came to pass, I'd start praying for a Rapture in a hurry. I'd do whatever John Hagee told me I had to in order to trigger it.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:12 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:12 PM on May 5, 2009
X = Chi
Chi != Christ
You need a Chi and a Rho and you're still short an "-ist," dudes.
Love,
X.X. Rodriguez
Chi Rho, Egypt
[NOT CHI RHO-IST]
posted by joe lisboa at 12:19 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Chi != Christ
You need a Chi and a Rho and you're still short an "-ist," dudes.
Love,
X.X. Rodriguez
Chi Rho, Egypt
[NOT CHI RHO-IST]
posted by joe lisboa at 12:19 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Look! It's the Fnord Horseman of the Apocalypse!
posted by sourwookie at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by sourwookie at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [8 favorites]
From Six Feet Under, the dangers of a false Rapture.
True story, my fundamentalist great-great aunt (my great grandfather's sister) lived along a gas pipeline in very rural Indiana. The pipeline ruptured and caught fire one morning after the men folk had left for work but before she awoke. When she woke up the woods surrounding her house were aflame and the fire from the pipeline was shooting up tens of feet into the air. As she could find no one around she naturally assumed it was the end times and that she had been left behind. Firemen later found her in hysterics wandering barefoot in her nightgown down a county road.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
True story, my fundamentalist great-great aunt (my great grandfather's sister) lived along a gas pipeline in very rural Indiana. The pipeline ruptured and caught fire one morning after the men folk had left for work but before she awoke. When she woke up the woods surrounding her house were aflame and the fire from the pipeline was shooting up tens of feet into the air. As she could find no one around she naturally assumed it was the end times and that she had been left behind. Firemen later found her in hysterics wandering barefoot in her nightgown down a county road.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
It's viral advertising for the Angels and Demons movie!
posted by cimbrog at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cimbrog at 12:22 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I may have misunderstood something. I always took LOLXTIANS to be not be LOL'ing @ XTIANS, but instead to be criticizing a poster for LOL'ing @ XTIANS; i.e., basically pointing out that it is shooting fish in a barrel and neither sporting nor amusing. Did I misunderstand? Am I doing a I know that you know that ... where really, it is only one step?
posted by Bovine Love at 12:25 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Bovine Love at 12:25 PM on May 5, 2009
If XTREME XTIANS don't want to be LOLd at they should stop being LOLworthy.
posted by unSane at 12:31 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by unSane at 12:31 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ah, I love people like Sherry Shriner. The front page of her website claims that she is the granddaughter of King David, that she is the mouthpiece of Yahweh. She claims special annointing to proclaim christian ministry throughout the internet, or something.
And then on the SAME page she links to what her name means in numerology, to many many many Bible Code pages, and then starts in with Orgone Warrior stuff about how we are burning out the Reptilians from their underground base...
I mean, choose your battles, lady. Either you're involved with the New Age crowd, or you're not. Either your God is true and everything else is false, or else your God is a liar.
I'm sure these are old statements to make here on the Blue, but how can she be that blind to her own cross-purposes. When I was busy suckling at the teat of Jesus, at least I knew that Numerology was of the Devil and should never be tampered with...
posted by hippybear at 12:34 PM on May 5, 2009
And then on the SAME page she links to what her name means in numerology, to many many many Bible Code pages, and then starts in with Orgone Warrior stuff about how we are burning out the Reptilians from their underground base...
I mean, choose your battles, lady. Either you're involved with the New Age crowd, or you're not. Either your God is true and everything else is false, or else your God is a liar.
I'm sure these are old statements to make here on the Blue, but how can she be that blind to her own cross-purposes. When I was busy suckling at the teat of Jesus, at least I knew that Numerology was of the Devil and should never be tampered with...
posted by hippybear at 12:34 PM on May 5, 2009
Do you also mail xtmas cards?
That's ridiculous. I mail Christtmas cards.
posted by univac at 12:35 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's ridiculous. I mail Christtmas cards.
posted by univac at 12:35 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
at least I knew that Numerology was of the Devil and should never be tampered with...
Unless you're John of Patmos or whatever, but point taken.
posted by joe lisboa at 12:36 PM on May 5, 2009
Unless you're John of Patmos or whatever, but point taken.
posted by joe lisboa at 12:36 PM on May 5, 2009
X = Chi
I always thought the "x" was used because it is cruciform, and stood for "Christ", hence "Xmas".
posted by drinkyclown at 12:38 PM on May 5, 2009
I always thought the "x" was used because it is cruciform, and stood for "Christ", hence "Xmas".
posted by drinkyclown at 12:38 PM on May 5, 2009
The fish-in-a-barrel context was what I was going for, BL. My sense is the term has undergone an evolution on MetaFilter. Originally used literally (Ha! Silly Christians!) it became a shorthand criticism of posts where the mockery of fringe Christians was the intent. I have a vague feeling that Jessamyn in particular started using it that way.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2009
HAARP is catnip for conspiracy theorists and millennarians.
posted by WPW at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by WPW at 12:39 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Drinky, you could well be right, but the Chi-Rho symbol (a combination of the first two Greek letters in "Christ") was one of the first widely used Christian symbols, so far as I'm aware. You've likely seen it: it looks like a P and an X superimposed. I guess it didn't hurt that X also physically resembles the aforementioned torture device, either.
posted by joe lisboa at 12:56 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by joe lisboa at 12:56 PM on May 5, 2009
My mind is blown.
I have long contemplated staging a fake Rapture for the lulz. (Note: I am actually a Christian myself, with the going to church and everything, so don't get all "LOLXTIAN" at me.)
Little did I know I had been beaten to the punch by the Illuminati.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:59 PM on May 5, 2009
I have long contemplated staging a fake Rapture for the lulz. (Note: I am actually a Christian myself, with the going to church and everything, so don't get all "LOLXTIAN" at me.)
Little did I know I had been beaten to the punch by the Illuminati.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:59 PM on May 5, 2009
* First three letters ... exiting thread now, Rapture imminent.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:01 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by joe lisboa at 1:01 PM on May 5, 2009
I have to wonder why such delusional people always go on at such great length, as if a tsunami of blither would convince doubters.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009
I always thought the "x" was used because it is cruciform, and stood for "Christ", hence "Xmas".
No, that is just happenstance. As above: the Greek X is chi, which stands for "Christ." Fun fact: ΙΧΘΥΣ is the common abbreviation for "Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Khristos Theou Huios, Sōtēr) or "Jesus Christ, son of God, Saviour" and ΙΧΘΥΣ (or in the lower case ἰχθύς) is the classical Greek word for fish, which is part of the reason why Christians have historically used the fish as a symbol on the back of their ancient and classical Dodges and Buicks.
I am told the minimalist design (two overlapping sections of arc) dates back to the days when they were still facing lions in the arena and were persecuted. If you wanted to gingerly feel out a stranger for their affiliation, you could idly scratch the toe of your sandal in a quarter-circle through the dust. If the other party wanted to signal he got what you were on about, he could subtly complete the fish icon. This may be legend, though.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009 [11 favorites]
No, that is just happenstance. As above: the Greek X is chi, which stands for "Christ." Fun fact: ΙΧΘΥΣ is the common abbreviation for "Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Khristos Theou Huios, Sōtēr) or "Jesus Christ, son of God, Saviour" and ΙΧΘΥΣ (or in the lower case ἰχθύς) is the classical Greek word for fish, which is part of the reason why Christians have historically used the fish as a symbol on the back of their ancient and classical Dodges and Buicks.
I am told the minimalist design (two overlapping sections of arc) dates back to the days when they were still facing lions in the arena and were persecuted. If you wanted to gingerly feel out a stranger for their affiliation, you could idly scratch the toe of your sandal in a quarter-circle through the dust. If the other party wanted to signal he got what you were on about, he could subtly complete the fish icon. This may be legend, though.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009 [11 favorites]
Metafilter: demonstrate the occult basis of computer technology.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 1:03 PM on May 5, 2009
I have to wonder why such delusional people always go on at such great length
Unfunny answer: Perseveration and delusions are both symptoms of many mental and neurological illnesses.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:05 PM on May 5, 2009
Unfunny answer: Perseveration and delusions are both symptoms of many mental and neurological illnesses.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:05 PM on May 5, 2009
Sidhedevil, thank you for enlaging my vocabulary by a word - Perseveration. Fascinating, and yes, sad -- and I do appreciate that bit of insight. My remark wasn't really meant to be funny, either, as I think you sensed.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:11 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 1:11 PM on May 5, 2009
Some funny stuff.
posted by notreally
Eponysterical.
posted by Bummus at 1:12 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by notreally
Eponysterical.
posted by Bummus at 1:12 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I thought a major defining feature of the rapture would be that it would be immediately obvious and undeniable.
Or do I have it backwards and the rapture would be easily dismissed as something else...
Damn, now I don't remember.
posted by ODiV at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2009
Or do I have it backwards and the rapture would be easily dismissed as something else...
Damn, now I don't remember.
posted by ODiV at 1:13 PM on May 5, 2009
That P and X superimposed is also the Christian Fishie. Supposedly once painted on the chests of Christians are a secret symbol back when the religion was quite literally underground.
posted by adipocere at 1:14 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by adipocere at 1:14 PM on May 5, 2009
Many, if not most, biblical literalists are at heart conspiracy theorists.
For instance, they must believe that the vast majority of the scientific establishment is either a) deliberately deceived or b) deliberately deceptive in its teaching on evolution. They are deceived/motivated either by their hatred of the Bible and God through their own corrupt sin nature/Satan.
This actually applies to almost every belief they hold. Those different from them are either the victims of Satan's conspiracy or a participant in it, otherwise we would all believe the obvious and self-evident truth like they do.
They must believe that Satan is actively working in world events to bring about his ultimate confrontation with God, "The End Times." Political events if not part of the Divine Plan (restoration of Israel) must be Satanically conspired (the EU: The New Rome?) to bring about the End Times.
For the near universal deception of the "damned" to be successful, the conspiracy must indeed be a) Insidious (see the EU) or b) Massive, Secret and Overwhelming just awaiting the moment of its . . . Revelation.
posted by MasonDixon at 1:14 PM on May 5, 2009
For instance, they must believe that the vast majority of the scientific establishment is either a) deliberately deceived or b) deliberately deceptive in its teaching on evolution. They are deceived/motivated either by their hatred of the Bible and God through their own corrupt sin nature/Satan.
This actually applies to almost every belief they hold. Those different from them are either the victims of Satan's conspiracy or a participant in it, otherwise we would all believe the obvious and self-evident truth like they do.
They must believe that Satan is actively working in world events to bring about his ultimate confrontation with God, "The End Times." Political events if not part of the Divine Plan (restoration of Israel) must be Satanically conspired (the EU: The New Rome?) to bring about the End Times.
For the near universal deception of the "damned" to be successful, the conspiracy must indeed be a) Insidious (see the EU) or b) Massive, Secret and Overwhelming just awaiting the moment of its . . . Revelation.
posted by MasonDixon at 1:14 PM on May 5, 2009
I got one page down into the second link when I saw the magic word...
chemtrails
As soon as you see that, you can safely discount about 99% of anything else on the same page.
I don't know why it is, but there is something in the paranoid, conspiracy theorist mindset that latches onto chemtrails like it's the final variable that solves for X in whatever bizarre equation they are proposing.
posted by quin at 1:16 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
chemtrails
As soon as you see that, you can safely discount about 99% of anything else on the same page.
I don't know why it is, but there is something in the paranoid, conspiracy theorist mindset that latches onto chemtrails like it's the final variable that solves for X in whatever bizarre equation they are proposing.
posted by quin at 1:16 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Some of the poorer South American nations aren't getting the full 3D hologram rapture experience - they're getting the inflatable Pink Floyd- style floating crucifixes and Marys. Should still work though considering they flip out over tortillas shaped like the virgin.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:16 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:16 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't get it. During the rapture, you get swept up into the sky or you don't. During a fake rapture, you wouldn't get swept up into the sky. Right? So if you don't get swept up into the sky during the rapture, and then life keeps going on normally afterward, then it's fake, right? What's the big deal about a fake rapture?
posted by Dr. Send at 1:22 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by Dr. Send at 1:22 PM on May 5, 2009
No Xmas for John Quays!
posted by nasreddin at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by nasreddin at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
What's the big deal about a fake rapture?
Heathen! Burn him/her!
posted by joe lisboa at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2009
Heathen! Burn him/her!
posted by joe lisboa at 1:29 PM on May 5, 2009
I used to date a girl who was a serious New Age type. Crystals, reincarnation, past life experiences encoded in our junk DNA, liberating Tibet, free-trade vegan krill for the whales, vague psychic experiences she could only recognize after the fact, the whole nine yards. And, although she did seem to receive regular messages from the beyond, I'm reasonably certain that she did not have several telecommunications satellites at her disposal.
I'm not even sure she believed in telecommunications satellites.
(in answer to your question, because the sex was freaking awesome)
posted by Naberius at 1:34 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm not even sure she believed in telecommunications satellites.
(in answer to your question, because the sex was freaking awesome)
posted by Naberius at 1:34 PM on May 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
What's the big deal about a fake rapture?
Wait, I think I know this. Is it Ghostbusters 2?
You can have this goofball meme when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
My cold. Dead. Hands.
posted by gompa at 1:34 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Wait, I think I know this. Is it Ghostbusters 2?
You can have this goofball meme when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
My cold. Dead. Hands.
posted by gompa at 1:34 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
because the sex was freaking awesome
But she knew that, ah, going into it?
posted by joe lisboa at 1:36 PM on May 5, 2009
But she knew that, ah, going into it?
posted by joe lisboa at 1:36 PM on May 5, 2009
I think the point is that, during a fake Rapture, if you are of the Rapture-believing mindset, until it is over or the illusion is somehow spoiled, you believe that you have been judged unworthy. Other, better people got Raptured. You did not. Tribulations to come. Bad ones. Seven years in which you may be martyred for your faith. You may fail Judgment, and you know what that means.
For those who don't shuffle it off with "You mean the Siouxsie and the Banshees album?" (Nowhere), it's the religious equivalent of a nuclear holocaust. So, yeah, it would be a big deal.
posted by adipocere at 1:36 PM on May 5, 2009
For those who don't shuffle it off with "You mean the Siouxsie and the Banshees album?" (Nowhere), it's the religious equivalent of a nuclear holocaust. So, yeah, it would be a big deal.
posted by adipocere at 1:36 PM on May 5, 2009
Is there really a fake rapture coming or is it just disinformation to get people to think a fake rapture is coming so when the real one does everyone rejects it?
See, what if the actual rapture everyone is praying for is, IN ITSELF, a fakeout? Then a fake man-made rapture would have to be put forth to disenfranchise people from believing in the originally planned fake rapture, just so when the REAL fake rapture comes around, no one is fooled. Crafty trickster god!
posted by FatherDagon at 1:37 PM on May 5, 2009
See, what if the actual rapture everyone is praying for is, IN ITSELF, a fakeout? Then a fake man-made rapture would have to be put forth to disenfranchise people from believing in the originally planned fake rapture, just so when the REAL fake rapture comes around, no one is fooled. Crafty trickster god!
posted by FatherDagon at 1:37 PM on May 5, 2009
I recommend therapy. Or Lithium.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:46 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:46 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Supposedly once painted on the chests of Christians are a secret symbol back when the religion was quite literally underground.
See hippybear, there's no reason battles with the sub-surface Reptilians need to be something for non-Christians. After all, the first followers of Christ were mole people of some sort.
It's viral advertising for the Angels and Demons movie!
Given the web design, I'd say it's more of a viral ad for The Rapture.
And to be a pedant on my joke, I realize that this movie came out in 1991, the same year of the first publicly available description of HTML.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:48 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
See hippybear, there's no reason battles with the sub-surface Reptilians need to be something for non-Christians. After all, the first followers of Christ were mole people of some sort.
It's viral advertising for the Angels and Demons movie!
Given the web design, I'd say it's more of a viral ad for The Rapture.
And to be a pedant on my joke, I realize that this movie came out in 1991, the same year of the first publicly available description of HTML.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:48 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you wanted to gingerly feel out a stranger for their affiliation, you could idly scratch the toe of your sandal in a quarter-circle through the dust. If the other party wanted to signal he got what you were on about, he could subtly complete the fish icon.So that's what Larry Craig was doing.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:50 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I was thinking of telling these guys to set up www.HasTheRaptureOccured.com, but I don't think I'd bother checking the site all that often.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on May 5, 2009
"Hollywood has gained ever increasing capabilities to produce movies that are so very, very realistic."
I can always recognise CGI.
posted by longsleeves at 1:55 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can always recognise CGI.
posted by longsleeves at 1:55 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
It just goes to show, you can’t be too careful!
posted by brundlefly at 2:00 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 2:00 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Well, I guess it's time to come clean. I'm posting this from Heaven. The Rapture already happened, a few weeks ago.
HAHAHA! So long, suckers!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:01 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
HAHAHA! So long, suckers!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:01 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I once faked a rupture to get out of helping a friend move.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:03 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 2:03 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm sure these are old statements to make here on the Blue, but how can she be that blind to her own cross-purposes. When I was busy suckling at the teat of Jesus, at least I knew that Numerology was of the Devil and should never be tampered with...The edges of the Christian theological landscape are fascinating. Talking to individuals who are into the really wacky fringey stuff (rooms full of people barking like dogs, fortune-telling, churches who believe their rafters rain gold dust every morning but still have to hold bake sales, etc.) is even more interesting. There's almost always a continuum that was followed: biblical literalism leading to a strong focus on interpretation, leading to an obsession with prophecy and apocrypha because that's where God announces the REALLY important information... And eventually they start reading weirder and weirder books by people who pay only cursory attention to "scripture," but start with a random vers in the middle of the old Testament and zing their way to Illuminati conspiracies and from there you're sharing real estate with UFOlogists and so on.
It's a very interesting trajectory that some folks follow -- not at all built into the DNA of fundamentalism, but in some ways related. It's the weird subculture of a weird subculture.
posted by verb at 2:11 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm totally planning a double reverse fake rapture. That'll show 'em.
posted by chairface at 2:21 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by chairface at 2:21 PM on May 5, 2009
It's a very interesting trajectory that some folks follow -- not at all built into the DNA of fundamentalism, but in some ways related. It's the weird subculture of a weird subculture.
Seems like it'd be a natural path to take, once you're already body-and-soul committed to a concept that, by it's nature, defies evidence and traditional concepts of logic.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:23 PM on May 5, 2009
Seems like it'd be a natural path to take, once you're already body-and-soul committed to a concept that, by it's nature, defies evidence and traditional concepts of logic.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:23 PM on May 5, 2009
I think the real rapture will most likely happen at night, or during a time (evening?) when it would be obvious if it were a projected image, because of the projected light beam.
It would be fun to rent a plane to circumnavigate the globe so you can watch the Rapture performance as it follows the dark side of the Earth.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:27 PM on May 5, 2009
It would be fun to rent a plane to circumnavigate the globe so you can watch the Rapture performance as it follows the dark side of the Earth.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:27 PM on May 5, 2009
Fake Raptures are okay, but I'd rather just watch a bunch of sunsets.
posted by box at 3:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 3:08 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
verb: Indeed. I think the whole Bible Code thing is a fairly interesting phenomenon. And the whole angel belief thing is pretty fascinating, too. (Never mind that one can weave a narrative of Biblical Prophesy about the End Times which says that, as things draw to a close, more and more believers will find themselves corrupted by false teachings and belief in non-Yahweh beings, etc. Seems like those verses alone should be enough to keep someone like Sherry Shriner cautious about making such leaps.)
But I digress.
Combining all of that with New Age Sedona-ish UFO beliefs (only with the aliens as the bad guys) and then lumping in Orgone energy (ah, Wilhelm, we hardly knew ye), hollow earth theory, Chemtrail paranoia... It never occurred to me. It is as if the idea of Millennialist Eschatology opened up a tiny chink in this poor woman's psyche, and in poured every possible iteration of They Are Against Us, and it all got dipped in the sweet chocolate coating of Jesus. Different fillings, hard to tell apart from the outside, and all served up in the same tinfoil-wrapped box.
posted by hippybear at 3:10 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
But I digress.
Combining all of that with New Age Sedona-ish UFO beliefs (only with the aliens as the bad guys) and then lumping in Orgone energy (ah, Wilhelm, we hardly knew ye), hollow earth theory, Chemtrail paranoia... It never occurred to me. It is as if the idea of Millennialist Eschatology opened up a tiny chink in this poor woman's psyche, and in poured every possible iteration of They Are Against Us, and it all got dipped in the sweet chocolate coating of Jesus. Different fillings, hard to tell apart from the outside, and all served up in the same tinfoil-wrapped box.
posted by hippybear at 3:10 PM on May 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I went to my local 423 illuminati lodge last night and Burt Peladenos told me that this whole coverage was blown out of proportion. That we weren't planning a Fake Rapture, that it was all a big misunderstanding. It's a Bake Nap Chair sale. Baked goodies and naps with comfy chairs. That's all.
posted by alteredcarbon at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by alteredcarbon at 3:26 PM on May 5, 2009
hippybear, if you want to meet lots of people like that hang out around a Unitarian Universalist church. (I am also given to understand by an expert that if you are an older single man it's a great place to meet women in general, although they're apt to resemble Naberius' ex.
posted by localroger at 3:39 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by localroger at 3:39 PM on May 5, 2009
localroger: I really appreciate you trying to hook me up, but being a older single man in WA is my only choice if I choose to continue to live with my partner of many years, as gay marriage is illegal in my state. ;)
What on earth about what I wrote gave you the impression I WANT to meet these people? I lived in Sedona for 20 months. It was enough woo-woo for a lifetime.
posted by hippybear at 3:49 PM on May 5, 2009
What on earth about what I wrote gave you the impression I WANT to meet these people? I lived in Sedona for 20 months. It was enough woo-woo for a lifetime.
posted by hippybear at 3:49 PM on May 5, 2009
They got it wrong.
Fake Raptors. That's the plan. We'll take the same ones that we buried 6000 years ago, and let them loose. But these ones will open doors.
posted by qvantamon at 3:54 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Fake Raptors. That's the plan. We'll take the same ones that we buried 6000 years ago, and let them loose. But these ones will open doors.
posted by qvantamon at 3:54 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sounds infinitely more plausible than an actual Rapture.
posted by evenson at 3:56 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by evenson at 3:56 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The rapture was more or less invented by John Nelson Darby in the 1830s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby
posted by lazydog at 4:44 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by lazydog at 4:44 PM on May 5, 2009
Um, hippybear, that was snark. I hung around those people for about 10 years since I had a sideline selling semiprecious gemstones. My real point was just that there are a lot of those people, because it is quite possible to read the Bible in a way that is entirely consistent with many other loopy seeming works of would-be transcendence. It is a sign of just how much the religious far right has distorted our perception of Christianity that anybody would be surprised by this.
posted by localroger at 4:52 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by localroger at 4:52 PM on May 5, 2009
I have now added "HoloChrist" to my Christmas wishlist.
posted by Avelwood at 5:10 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Avelwood at 5:10 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Per his arrangement with our organization, l33tpolicywonk would like to notify Metafilter that he has been raptured. Have a nice day.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 5:42 PM on May 5, 2009
I think the whole Bible Code thing is a fairly interesting phenomenon. And the whole angel belief thing is pretty fascinating, too.Oh, man, the Bible Codes. All questions of their statistical veracity aside, it's interesting that their first big blip in the Christian mainstream was as a sort of proto-apologetics tool. "Wow! There's this embedded message in Scripture validating its authenticity with predictions about the future, like a checksum that only God could have put in place!"
After its round in the Christian talk-show circuit though, it fell off the radar primarily because people started finding The Moby Dick Codes and The Book Of Mormon Codes and The Source Code For Linux Codes and so on and so forth. In that time, though, it had acquired enough of a sheen of orthodox authenticity that folks who normally stuck to Pat Robertson rants and Max Lucado books 'remembered hearing respectable things about it'. Before you knew it, The Bible Code was a gateway drug to numerology and conspiracy theories and nostradamus and BLACK HELICOPTERS IT SAYS HERE IN THE BOOK OF DANIEL IF YOU READ EVERY FIFTH CONSONANT
posted by verb at 6:36 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
If this technology actually existed, there is absolutely no way it would have remained a secret for the whole of its development - can you imagine what incredibly badass games could arise from the ability to fill the sky with holograms?
You may scoff, I merely say Duke Nukem Forever.
posted by bystander at 6:50 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
You may scoff, I merely say Duke Nukem Forever.
posted by bystander at 6:50 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, for the folks who aren't familiar with the wacky tangles of end-times rapture prophecy and its subcultures, this site is full of some choice sniping. "The 3rd wave Beast Prophets are building an army called Joel's army but what it really is is an army for Lucifer disguised to look as Yahweh's army led by those who have been crowned as Knights of Malta serving Lucifer!"
That's not just crazy-ranting. It's crazy ranting about a different bunch of Dominionist rapture-watchers who believe that something called the 'Latter Rain' of God will lead to the formation of "Joel's Army" to bring about thousand-year kingdom. It makes me want to find out about all the other crazy just so I can make a big diagram of the thinly-vieled snipe-fests that fill all the other screeds.
So, yeah. I guess LOLXIANS is part of it. But having been on the periphery of these groups for a while, there's some fascinating tangly cross-talk going on that puts the Tolkien universe to shame for complexity and multi-layered conflict.
posted by verb at 7:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
That's not just crazy-ranting. It's crazy ranting about a different bunch of Dominionist rapture-watchers who believe that something called the 'Latter Rain' of God will lead to the formation of "Joel's Army" to bring about thousand-year kingdom. It makes me want to find out about all the other crazy just so I can make a big diagram of the thinly-vieled snipe-fests that fill all the other screeds.
So, yeah. I guess LOLXIANS is part of it. But having been on the periphery of these groups for a while, there's some fascinating tangly cross-talk going on that puts the Tolkien universe to shame for complexity and multi-layered conflict.
posted by verb at 7:06 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
cutting edge? this is something i used to hear from neo-pagans in 1981, how the government was going to fake the rapture with holograms etc etc etc*
it's really not anything new, folks**
*yes, we were doing a lot of drugs - how did you guess?
**isn't it interesting that one generation's paranoid left-wing fantasises become the next generation's paranoid right-wing fantasies?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:45 PM on May 5, 2009
it's really not anything new, folks**
*yes, we were doing a lot of drugs - how did you guess?
**isn't it interesting that one generation's paranoid left-wing fantasises become the next generation's paranoid right-wing fantasies?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:45 PM on May 5, 2009
True story, my fundamentalist great-great aunt (my great grandfather's sister) lived along a gas pipeline in very rural Indiana. The pipeline ruptured and caught fire one morning after the men folk had left for work but before she awoke. When she woke up the woods surrounding her house were aflame and the fire from the pipeline was shooting up tens of feet into the air. As she could find no one around she naturally assumed it was the end times and that she had been left behind. Firemen later found her in hysterics wandering barefoot in her nightgown down a county road.
So they had to explain to her that it was the rupture, not the rapture?
posted by longsleeves at 9:11 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
So they had to explain to her that it was the rupture, not the rapture?
posted by longsleeves at 9:11 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
People believe different things than I do and that pisses me the fuck off!
posted by hamida2242 at 11:13 PM on May 5, 2009
posted by hamida2242 at 11:13 PM on May 5, 2009
1. Fake Rapture
2. ???
3. Prophet!
posted by caution live frogs at 5:37 AM on May 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
2. ???
3. Prophet!
posted by caution live frogs at 5:37 AM on May 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
As a non-Christian who endured life-searing discrimination and ridicule throughout my childhood, I always wonder where this American Christian paranoia comes from. I mean, they do know that Christians are something like 80% of the people in this country, don't they?
posted by nax at 6:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by nax at 6:23 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wait. You’re going to devise sky holograms and you’re not going to make a giant squid? Tsk tsk.
*takes name off the Rapture*
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 6:54 AM on May 6, 2009
*takes name off the Rapture*
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 6:54 AM on May 6, 2009
nax: One important thing to keep in mind is that the New Testament was written at a time when Christian beliefs were unpopular -- to the point that you could get yourself thrown in jail and, eventually, killed. All of the advice in Scripture about how to 'be a Christian' is geared towards someone who is a minority in a hostile environment. (Ironic, yes, but...)
There's not really any good advice in the New Testament about how to treat other minorities, or how to govern wisely if you actually happen to be in charge of things. Some Christians tend to flip-flop between looking at the Old Testament (where kings and theocracy were the order of the day) and pretending that they really ARE a minority, and they really AREN'T in charge. In that context, at least, the advice they see in Scripture makes sense and there's no need to do the complicated work of extrapolating principles.
The persecution narrative is strong in the book of Revelation. It was written by a ninety-year old guy who was locked up on a prison island for being a Christian, and it's filled with imagery of a final showdown between a few faithful believers and an evil, supernaturally powerful leader who can bring the power of the world's armies to bear on them. Many Christians maintain that mindset even when they are the ones that make up 80% of the world's most powerful nation, and self-professed Christians have been in control of the world's largest nuclear arsenal for ... well, forever.
Another factor -- and this is key especially in Rapture-obsessed groups -- is a strong belief that most of the 80% who identify as Christians aren't really Christians. They're "pew-warmers" who haven't really committed their lives to God. Fred Clark of Slacktivist fame coined the term 'RTCs' (Real True Christians) for folks that see the world through these lenses, and it tends to dominate end-times eschatology. You can see that in Sherry's web site when she goes off on rants about the true church needing to reach 144,000 members before the rapture occurs, and the false church going along with the Antichrist, etc.
posted by verb at 7:00 AM on May 6, 2009
There's not really any good advice in the New Testament about how to treat other minorities, or how to govern wisely if you actually happen to be in charge of things. Some Christians tend to flip-flop between looking at the Old Testament (where kings and theocracy were the order of the day) and pretending that they really ARE a minority, and they really AREN'T in charge. In that context, at least, the advice they see in Scripture makes sense and there's no need to do the complicated work of extrapolating principles.
The persecution narrative is strong in the book of Revelation. It was written by a ninety-year old guy who was locked up on a prison island for being a Christian, and it's filled with imagery of a final showdown between a few faithful believers and an evil, supernaturally powerful leader who can bring the power of the world's armies to bear on them. Many Christians maintain that mindset even when they are the ones that make up 80% of the world's most powerful nation, and self-professed Christians have been in control of the world's largest nuclear arsenal for ... well, forever.
Another factor -- and this is key especially in Rapture-obsessed groups -- is a strong belief that most of the 80% who identify as Christians aren't really Christians. They're "pew-warmers" who haven't really committed their lives to God. Fred Clark of Slacktivist fame coined the term 'RTCs' (Real True Christians) for folks that see the world through these lenses, and it tends to dominate end-times eschatology. You can see that in Sherry's web site when she goes off on rants about the true church needing to reach 144,000 members before the rapture occurs, and the false church going along with the Antichrist, etc.
posted by verb at 7:00 AM on May 6, 2009
Verb, I think you may be making the common mistake in implying that in Christianity the scripture came first. That may be true for Islam, but in Christianity the Church was in existance before the books were written and long before they were assembled into "the New Testament." The scriptures were tailored to fit the need of the Church not the Church shifting to fit scripture.
In Islam and Judaism you see schism over the minute points of written law and how they should be followed. In Christianity the law mutates to fit the schism. In that way the RTC's will always be able to find an "other" that isn't doing it right even if they use the same book or translation (which they don't, opening a whole other can of worms).
It also means that as a Christian you can always find scriptural justification for whatever you want to justify, be it rampant bigotry or pseudo-Marxist liberationism.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:21 AM on May 6, 2009
In Islam and Judaism you see schism over the minute points of written law and how they should be followed. In Christianity the law mutates to fit the schism. In that way the RTC's will always be able to find an "other" that isn't doing it right even if they use the same book or translation (which they don't, opening a whole other can of worms).
It also means that as a Christian you can always find scriptural justification for whatever you want to justify, be it rampant bigotry or pseudo-Marxist liberationism.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:21 AM on May 6, 2009
Verb, I think you may be making the common mistake in implying that in Christianity the scripture came first.I don't think so -- more accurately, some of Christianity's earliest "formative years" were shaped by Roman persecution. The Scriptures that formed reflect that, and it's been a long time since Christians were willing to add new content wholesale. Even those who twist Scripture into odd shapes to get the message they want have to work with raw material formed in a certain setting.
The scriptures were tailored to fit the need of the Church not the Church shifting to fit scripture.Exactly -- severe persecution under Roman emperors was the order of the day into the 300s or so, and by that time most of the canon had been nailed down. The 'tailoring' effect you refer to took place during the era of minority status and active persecution, and today when literalist-minded Christians look back for guidance, there's a lot of talk about suffering opression under evil rulers and not very much about being in charge without being evil one's self.
Hmmm. I think I've veered into theologyfilter now...
posted by verb at 7:45 AM on May 6, 2009
The persecutions both Roman and pre-Roman may actually have been played up in the scriptures and Church propaganda after the fact when Christianity was the ruling religion, the struggle being equated with that of Jesus to give the Church the same mystical legitimacy (in much the way Joe Biden is "just a poor boy from Scranton") and to justify the abandonment of Jewish law (and thus forming a New Testament), a function of the scripture mutating to fit the needs of the Church. Sure, there were pograms against early Christian groups, but there were similar ones against Jews, Mithraists, and conflicting pagan groups and they certainly weren't any worse than what early Christians were capable of doing to each other or non-Christians, especially after they took power or gained majority status in a community. In other words, Christians held no special monopoly on martyrdom that set them as a distinct minority.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:51 AM on May 6, 2009
posted by Pollomacho at 8:51 AM on May 6, 2009
There's not really any good advice in the New Testament about how to treat other minorities
Really, verb... don't make me get out my (these days) rarely opened Red Letter Edition and make we start quoting the aforementioned Red Letter verses. The man about whom all the furor continues said PLENTY about how to treat those you regard as being "outside" for whatever reason. Just because Saul of Tarsus was a paranoid closet homosexual steeped in misogyny doesn't mean that the entire book is void of words of Love Toward The Other.
And really, while the 27 books we may know as the New Testament were certainly circulating at the time the Emperor converted and demanded that a book be assembled, it is noteworthy that many of the non-Canon tomes were also being included in varying combinations depending on the region, including the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Peter, and the Book Of Enoch, all of which are considered false scripture today, and many of which are still used in certain regions. (The Ethiopian church in particular comes to mind.)
posted by hippybear at 9:14 AM on May 6, 2009
Really, verb... don't make me get out my (these days) rarely opened Red Letter Edition and make we start quoting the aforementioned Red Letter verses. The man about whom all the furor continues said PLENTY about how to treat those you regard as being "outside" for whatever reason. Just because Saul of Tarsus was a paranoid closet homosexual steeped in misogyny doesn't mean that the entire book is void of words of Love Toward The Other.
And really, while the 27 books we may know as the New Testament were certainly circulating at the time the Emperor converted and demanded that a book be assembled, it is noteworthy that many of the non-Canon tomes were also being included in varying combinations depending on the region, including the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Peter, and the Book Of Enoch, all of which are considered false scripture today, and many of which are still used in certain regions. (The Ethiopian church in particular comes to mind.)
posted by hippybear at 9:14 AM on May 6, 2009
There's not really any good advice in the New Testament about how to treat other minorities
The parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't do it for you?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:16 AM on May 6, 2009
The parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't do it for you?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:16 AM on May 6, 2009
some of Christianity's earliest "formative years" were shaped by Roman persecution. The Scriptures that formed reflect that, and it's been a long time since Christians were willing to add new content wholesale
Nietzsche spent a lot of time arguing that this situation shaped modern Western morality into what he called slave morality.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:38 AM on May 6, 2009
Nietzsche spent a lot of time arguing that this situation shaped modern Western morality into what he called slave morality.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:38 AM on May 6, 2009
The parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't do it for you?
Why because it says that even unclean, unholy minority group members, like Samaritans for example, can be nice guys occasionally? The Good Samaritan story is about a lot more than showing compassion for someone when they are down.
I think a better example (also coincidentally involving a Samaritan) is in John 4, when Jesus calls a woman a ho and she is convinced he's the messiah. If we follow the WWJD path, clearly calling minority women sluts is the way to earn eternal salvation.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:40 AM on May 6, 2009
Why because it says that even unclean, unholy minority group members, like Samaritans for example, can be nice guys occasionally? The Good Samaritan story is about a lot more than showing compassion for someone when they are down.
I think a better example (also coincidentally involving a Samaritan) is in John 4, when Jesus calls a woman a ho and she is convinced he's the messiah. If we follow the WWJD path, clearly calling minority women sluts is the way to earn eternal salvation.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:40 AM on May 6, 2009
In other words, Christians held no special monopoly on martyrdom that set them as a distinct minority.Sure. But are you really suggesting that early persecution isn't a huge part of Christianity's narrative? And that persecution is a big part of what shaped the early church's DNA? I'm not defending crazy, just reflecting on the ripple effects of it.
The man about whom all the furor continues said PLENTY about how to treat those you regard as being "outside" for whatever reason.Sure. I'm not saying that Jesus didn't have a lot to say about treating the weak and downtrodden with kindness and compassion. I'm saying that pound for pound, there's a lot more concrete discussion in the New Testament and in Jesus' teachings about how to live as one of the downtrodden (subjugated by the Romans, etc. etc.) than there is about how to behave if you're the ... well, the Downtrodder.
I could be wrong, naturally, but I think that reviewing the perspective of the gospels, the epistles, and other various other collected books really does show a consistency: very early Christians weren't in charge of much other than their own behavior and their own small communities of belief. Much of the teaching revolved around how to manage those things, and then -- bam -- Constantine.
Christ, what an asshole.
Man, I threadjack so bad.
posted by verb at 11:15 AM on May 6, 2009
But are you really suggesting that early persecution isn't a huge part of Christianity's narrative?
No, I'm not saying it isn't part of the narrative, I'm just saying it became central in the narrative when Chrisitans were the Emperors of Rome as opposed to the colosseum fodder.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2009
No, I'm not saying it isn't part of the narrative, I'm just saying it became central in the narrative when Chrisitans were the Emperors of Rome as opposed to the colosseum fodder.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2009
You got schizophrenia in my catholicism!
posted by five fresh fish at 7:26 PM on May 6, 2009
You got catholicism in my schizophrenia![together] Two great delusions that taste great together!
posted by five fresh fish at 7:26 PM on May 6, 2009
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posted by box at 11:28 AM on May 5, 2009 [10 favorites]