Comments on: Bantoro = Henry Ford

Bantoro = Henry Ford

Miko — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:25:07 -0800

Museum archivist, exploring Henry Ford's office records, stumbles into the interesting world of commercial telegraphic code.

By: strixus

strixus — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:31:38 -0800

Seriously. Cool. This is the sort of stuff I love, and one of the reasons I really want to do document work one day down the road.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:41:03 -0800

It does seem odd to me that someone tasked with being a business records archivist would be initially unfamiliar with commercial codes. They were used intensively well into the 1950s at least. (Amusingly, Alfred Bester's 1952 SF novel "The Demolished Man" seems to assume they'd still be around for centuries; a crucial plot point hinges on them.)

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:43:40 -0800

The ABC's: Asimov, Bester, and Clarke What about Bradbury? I'm familiar with his work.

By: steef

steef — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:48:47 -0800

MetaFilter: EWVGL

By: selenized

selenized — Wed, 27 May 2009 11:03:35 -0800

the whole bit (in wikipedia) on using actual words as codewords for other words and phrases -- because some telegraph companies required that messages be real words -- was fascinating and hilarious, esp for this example: annosus - Confined yesterday, Twins, both dead, Mother not expected to live

By: Horace Rumpole

Horace Rumpole — Wed, 27 May 2009 11:12:07 -0800

In terms of ratio of effort required to favorites/comments, this was my least successful post ever. Part of the problem may have been that I posted it on a Saturday night right after hearing a talk on the subject.

By: kaybdc

kaybdc — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:12:19 -0800

It does seem odd to me that someone tasked with being a business records archivist would be initially unfamiliar with commercial codes. They were used intensively well into the 1950s at least. George_Spiggott, actually, as I practicing archivist, I'm not surprised. As the field becomes more and more professionalized, you get less people with subject area expertise fall into becoming archivists and more people educated as archivists (in this country usually through an MLIS program with a specialization in archives and records management, but there is a movement underfoot in the profession to develop separate Masters of Archives programs). I can't speak for the whole profession, but I feel safe in stating that the focus now is on the best ways of describing and arranging the materials to provide access to the materials. The important thing is that like any information professional worth her salt, she figured it out or asked the right question to the right person/people and thus was able to properly identify the materials. /stepping away from my archivists' soap box...

By: dirtdirt

dirtdirt — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:24:54 -0800

Boinged, and they call us smugbastards!

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Wed, 27 May 2009 14:02:36 -0800

Commercial codes play a part in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress but I didn't truly understand what they were talking about until now. Specifically the motivation to save money. I couldn't figure out what the heck the point of a publicly available "code" book would be. After all, the person you are trying to keep your messages secret from could just sally down to the code book shop and pick a copy up. The protagonists did modify their book but still, why would there be a market for commercial books in the first place. Should have been obvious I guess. "In terms of ratio of effort required to favorites/comments, this was my least successful post ever. Part of the problem may have been that I posted it on a Saturday night right after hearing a talk on the subject." The mystery meatness of the front page section is probably more to blame.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Wed, 27 May 2009 15:30:20 -0800

The ABC's: Asimov, Bester, and Clarke What about Bradbury? I'm familiar with his work. You shut your filthy mouth. Also, hang around any software company and you'd think the practice of talking in code never stopped.

By: Twang

Twang — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:06:43 -0800

Old old joke now takes on more meaning (pardons to Scotsmen): A Scotsman had to send a telegram and not wishing to spend more money than necessary, wrote this: 'Bruises hurt erased afford erected analysis hurt too infectious dead'

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:08:30 -0800

That makes sense, kaybcd. Thanks. Another interesting sidebar: the "American Black Chamber", the cryptanalysis division or cipher bureau of the Department of War run by Herbert O. Yardley from 1919 to 1929 operated out of New York City, instead of the D.C. area as you might normally expect. The reason for this is that it was disguised as an ordinary commercial code operation, most of which were based in New York, which enabled them to openly employ large numbers of code clerks and operate telegraphic equipment without tipping anyone off that this was actually the base of all cryptographic SIGINT operations at the time.

By: localroger

localroger — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:24:04 -0800

(I haven't been able to figure out quite how to use the preceding two charts yet.) LOL what? The proper name code is a simple substitution code designed to obfuscate identity while leaving names pronouncable, so the vowels are scattered according to one pattern and consonants according to another. To encode you replace left to right, to decode you replace right to left. There was a code like this in the secret codes for kids book I had when I was ten years old. The number code encodes numbers into seemingly random alphabetic nonsense. Again, a simple substitution cipher, with special codes for units and decimal points / zeroes. Neither of these codes is about saving telegraph charges; they're about secrecy, in the quarter baked through-obscurity sense that was very quaintly obsolete even before WWII began.

By: localroger

localroger — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:25:52 -0800

My childhood code wonk just woke up and hit me over the head with the fact that both of those codes are in fact ciphers.

By: Horace Rumpole

Horace Rumpole — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:12:59 -0800

The mystery meatness of the front page section is probably more to blame. Goddammit, that's the whole point of that post. I am big. It's Metafilter that got small.