Bleedin' 'Ell!
June 1, 2009 9:07 AM Subscribe
Bleeding Cool, the new comics journalism site of Rich Johnston, formerly of CBR's rumor column Lying in the Gutters.
It's been up for all of one day, keep your damn top on.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:42 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:42 AM on June 1, 2009
This is kind of interesting and fairly significant if you've been following the whole Marvel pricing thing.
posted by Artw at 9:46 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by Artw at 9:46 AM on June 1, 2009
Here is that blog summed up for you: Comics fucking cost too much and aren't worth it.
posted by GavinR at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by GavinR at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2009
I always thought that, for regular monthly comics, the profit came more from advertising than from the cover price. Anybody know anything about the profit split at Marvel and DC between revenue from issue sales, and revenue from ad placement in those books?
posted by autodidact at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by autodidact at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2009
Well, it's more comics fucking cost too much and aren't worth it, but Marvel are counting on people being too dumb to stop buying them.
Which everyone kind of knew and expected, but it's kind of different when they're telling your readers that to their faces.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Which everyone kind of knew and expected, but it's kind of different when they're telling your readers that to their faces.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
.. I only buy trade paperbacks anyway. Except for the rare occcasion where I'll pick up an issue that has a self-contained story in it. Trades are superior in almost every way, the biggest improvement from my POV being the absence of advertising.
posted by autodidact at 10:26 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by autodidact at 10:26 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
More on that from Robot 6.
autodidact - yes, but (excluding some OGN type things) trades have got to come from somewhere.
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on June 1, 2009
autodidact - yes, but (excluding some OGN type things) trades have got to come from somewhere.
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on June 1, 2009
I only buy TPB at this point, and pretty much stick to silver and bronze age stuff. The new books are NOT worth the price of admission. I can recall when the price point passed the one dollar mark and everyone cried havok, now it is just another day in the price inflation era. Fuck monthly book prices. I'm not paying that much.
posted by GavinR at 10:44 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by GavinR at 10:44 AM on June 1, 2009
It may work for them for now, since they are basically right: the remaining audience for overpriced monthlies are the hardcore remainder who will stick with it no matter what horrible thing Marvel does to them. The only problem is that it's not an audience that will grow, and with zero replacement it's not going to be around forever.
The black and white phonebook sized volumes seem to be doing alright, by virtue of giving you a decent amount of entertainment for a reasonable amount of money. I'd kind of like to see that model take off more.
posted by Artw at 10:52 AM on June 1, 2009
The black and white phonebook sized volumes seem to be doing alright, by virtue of giving you a decent amount of entertainment for a reasonable amount of money. I'd kind of like to see that model take off more.
posted by Artw at 10:52 AM on June 1, 2009
I can actually see the only 'comic' comic I buy this year being the new LEOG and that's just about a GN
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:55 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:55 AM on June 1, 2009
I really liked the LOEG format - nice and chunky. pity we won't see another one for ages.
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on June 1, 2009
Last week I bought two single issues that came to grand total of £5.20, something like $8.50 at the current rate. They were indies, but still, what the fuck? Comics are supposed to be something you can buy for pennies. You're not meant to have to give them their own column in Excel when you do the monthly budget. This - coupled with Dwayne McDuffie's explanation of just why JLA is so pisspoor in an earlier one of Johnston's posts - is why I'm basically giving up the comics habit. Except for League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. And Phonogram. Fuck it, maybe Thor as well.
(Also: I'm glad Rich is still around. He lost his dayjob a while back and I was a bit worried when he announced Lying in the Gutters was ending.)
posted by permafrost at 11:09 AM on June 1, 2009
(Also: I'm glad Rich is still around. He lost his dayjob a while back and I was a bit worried when he announced Lying in the Gutters was ending.)
posted by permafrost at 11:09 AM on June 1, 2009
There's a new LOEG out right now. I think it's another four-part prestige format mini.
posted by autodidact at 11:10 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by autodidact at 11:10 AM on June 1, 2009
Last week I bought two single issues that came to grand total of £5.20, something like $8.50 at the current rate. They were indies, but still, what the fuck?
I'll take this "what the fuck," actually. Without knowing what you bought, an "indie" that costs you four bucks is probably making its publisher next to nothing, because a comic with a low print run costs a fortune to print. You walked away with a steal, sorry to tell you.
Conversely, Marvel is getting a sizeable break on its print costs -- certainly a bigger break than any independent -- and they're simply charging you four bucks an issue because you (well, not you, apparently, but some "you") are sucker enough to pay it. I mean, they as much as just said so.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:18 AM on June 1, 2009
I'll take this "what the fuck," actually. Without knowing what you bought, an "indie" that costs you four bucks is probably making its publisher next to nothing, because a comic with a low print run costs a fortune to print. You walked away with a steal, sorry to tell you.
Conversely, Marvel is getting a sizeable break on its print costs -- certainly a bigger break than any independent -- and they're simply charging you four bucks an issue because you (well, not you, apparently, but some "you") are sucker enough to pay it. I mean, they as much as just said so.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:18 AM on June 1, 2009
This - coupled with Dwayne McDuffie's explanation of just why JLA is so pisspoor in an earlier one of Johnston's posts - is why I'm basically giving up the comics habit.
Well, like the guy says: DC is giving the fans what they want, and that's big event books that have affect the entire line, and promotable events in the main solo titles. When that stuff stops selling better than regular comics, DC will stop doing them.
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on June 1, 2009
Well, like the guy says: DC is giving the fans what they want, and that's big event books that have affect the entire line, and promotable events in the main solo titles. When that stuff stops selling better than regular comics, DC will stop doing them.
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on June 1, 2009
Right on. Rich has had some pretty bad luck personally over the last few years, and this is exactly the right move for him.
When he first started doing this kind of thing, wayback on Usenet, he was roundly lambasted (by me and others) for being a muckraker. Now he's an honest-to-god journalist, and perhaps the most incisive and insightful one in the business.
On a tangent, Rich was one of the first industry journalists to cover the filesharing of comics. He didn't get it quite right and he talked with so-called experts who didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, but he was at least on the bleeding edge.
Me, I haven't paid for a 'pamphlet' comic in five years. Got a 1.5T hard drive with nothing but comics on it, and it gets fuller every week. $3.99 for an issue of Thor? Phht. But I'll still drop $100 for Absolute Sandman Volume 4.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 11:25 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
When he first started doing this kind of thing, wayback on Usenet, he was roundly lambasted (by me and others) for being a muckraker. Now he's an honest-to-god journalist, and perhaps the most incisive and insightful one in the business.
On a tangent, Rich was one of the first industry journalists to cover the filesharing of comics. He didn't get it quite right and he talked with so-called experts who didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, but he was at least on the bleeding edge.
Me, I haven't paid for a 'pamphlet' comic in five years. Got a 1.5T hard drive with nothing but comics on it, and it gets fuller every week. $3.99 for an issue of Thor? Phht. But I'll still drop $100 for Absolute Sandman Volume 4.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 11:25 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
He did kill X-STATIX by leaking that Lady Di thing to the Daily Mail, though.
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on June 1, 2009
Jeez, Marvel books are 4 bucks now? I like comics, but that's ridiculous.
posted by graventy at 11:54 AM on June 1, 2009
posted by graventy at 11:54 AM on June 1, 2009
You walked away with a steal, sorry to tell you.
Ah, I feel a little better now. To be honest, I'm pretty much happy to support the indies. It just happened that I didn't buy any big two books last week.
DC is giving the fans what they want
And that's kind of the problem as well - it's all about artificially growing the amount of books they can sell to The Fans, rather than going out and growing their market for reals.
I'd offer the new Dr Who as a case in point - instead of taking the Marvel/DC route of solidly aiming the show at the old school Who fans, they chose to make a family show first and foremost, and basically turned Who into a commercial juggernaut (while still managing to knock out some really good stories whenever Stephen Moffat's at the helm).
posted by permafrost at 12:02 PM on June 1, 2009
Ah, I feel a little better now. To be honest, I'm pretty much happy to support the indies. It just happened that I didn't buy any big two books last week.
DC is giving the fans what they want
And that's kind of the problem as well - it's all about artificially growing the amount of books they can sell to The Fans, rather than going out and growing their market for reals.
I'd offer the new Dr Who as a case in point - instead of taking the Marvel/DC route of solidly aiming the show at the old school Who fans, they chose to make a family show first and foremost, and basically turned Who into a commercial juggernaut (while still managing to knock out some really good stories whenever Stephen Moffat's at the helm).
posted by permafrost at 12:02 PM on June 1, 2009
$3.99 for an issue of Thor?
Well, Stracynski's schedule is currently something like 4 issues a year, if we're lucky, so this one kind of evens out.
posted by permafrost at 12:04 PM on June 1, 2009
Well, Stracynski's schedule is currently something like 4 issues a year, if we're lucky, so this one kind of evens out.
posted by permafrost at 12:04 PM on June 1, 2009
This might be a good time to mention that you can always choose to support the indie comics market instead, with self-contained stories, no money-grubbing mega-crossovers, and a commitment to good old-fashioned storytelling rather than corporate profit.
Why, some random MetaFilter member might have the first of five issues adapting a fantastic classic novel coming out this Wednesday. Eight preview pages might be available for your perusal, along with some rather nice reviews.
Seriously, the indie publishers -- and I'm talking anyone but Marvel, DC, Dark Horse and Image -- have been rocked by Diamond de-listings lately, and the response from comics readers seems to have been to shrug and buy more copies of Final Reign of the Dark Crisis: Tie-In Seventeen. Ape Entertainment, SLG, Oni, Top Shelf, Boom! and loads of other publishers are putting out fantastic, self-contained, solid stories that don't rely on '80s nostalgia licenses, boobs, or slavering fanboys to get by.
Dropping a major publisher has never been a more viable option than it is today.
posted by Shepherd at 12:12 PM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Why, some random MetaFilter member might have the first of five issues adapting a fantastic classic novel coming out this Wednesday. Eight preview pages might be available for your perusal, along with some rather nice reviews.
Seriously, the indie publishers -- and I'm talking anyone but Marvel, DC, Dark Horse and Image -- have been rocked by Diamond de-listings lately, and the response from comics readers seems to have been to shrug and buy more copies of Final Reign of the Dark Crisis: Tie-In Seventeen. Ape Entertainment, SLG, Oni, Top Shelf, Boom! and loads of other publishers are putting out fantastic, self-contained, solid stories that don't rely on '80s nostalgia licenses, boobs, or slavering fanboys to get by.
Dropping a major publisher has never been a more viable option than it is today.
posted by Shepherd at 12:12 PM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
The black and white phonebook sized volumes seem to be doing alright, by virtue of giving you a decent amount of entertainment for a reasonable amount of money. I'd kind of like to see that model take off more.
I.e. "manga".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:50 PM on June 1, 2009
I.e. "manga".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:50 PM on June 1, 2009
Well, yes. People keep talking about big eyes or cross-gender appeal or whatever, but I really do think the biggets difference is that American comics are utterly shit value for money.
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on June 1, 2009
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on June 1, 2009
Little Lulu Becomes Brazilian Manga Teen Lulu
Bleeding Cool deserves to live purely for posting that story. My mind is blown.
posted by ardgedee at 4:29 PM on June 1, 2009
Bleeding Cool deserves to live purely for posting that story. My mind is blown.
posted by ardgedee at 4:29 PM on June 1, 2009
Bah. I was hoping the Ellis column would be something like the Come In Alone columns he did back in the day, not his now-regular blowhard schtick. Pity.
posted by Artw at 7:52 AM on June 2, 2009
posted by Artw at 7:52 AM on June 2, 2009
He did kill X-STATIX by leaking that Lady Di thing to the Daily Mail, though.
Ha. No, sorry, but I think that when you're graverobbing the royals for grist for your little funnybook, you're running on fumes.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:24 AM on June 2, 2009
Ha. No, sorry, but I think that when you're graverobbing the royals for grist for your little funnybook, you're running on fumes.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:24 AM on June 2, 2009
I guess we'll never know, since Johnston fucked it all up by leaking it, Marvel got cold feet and made a bunch of last minute changes that resulted in them printing a bunch of nonsense, and one of the best comics running at the time (and one of the best things Peter Milligan had done for years) ended up getting canceled shortly afterwards.
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on June 2, 2009
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on June 2, 2009
That redone-at-the-last-minute issue of X-Statix is one hell of a weird artifact. I kind of enjoy it because I know the real-world backstory and enjoy trying to work out the original Diana script; but when I was proselytizing a friend about X-Force/Statix, I just acted like the series ended the issue before that. Just to keep it easier.
posted by COBRA! at 9:56 AM on June 2, 2009
posted by COBRA! at 9:56 AM on June 2, 2009
Artw: Well, like the guy says: DC is giving the fans what they want, and that's big event books that have affect the entire line, and promotable events in the main solo titles. When that stuff stops selling better than regular comics, DC will stop doing them.
Another writer I like wrote, regarding a cancellation that annoys me: "Wow. It's almost as if basing your entire business model around a series of must-buy big event crossovers in a market with limited purchasing resources hurts your midlist."
My problem with that focus is the lack of new characters, & also the annoyance of seeing the big crossover interrupt stories.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:22 PM on June 2, 2009
Another writer I like wrote, regarding a cancellation that annoys me: "Wow. It's almost as if basing your entire business model around a series of must-buy big event crossovers in a market with limited purchasing resources hurts your midlist."
My problem with that focus is the lack of new characters, & also the annoyance of seeing the big crossover interrupt stories.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:22 PM on June 2, 2009
...though that may in fact be one big fat pile of troll, as one of the commentors points out, with the text being cut and pasted from here.
posted by Artw at 3:49 PM on June 6, 2009
posted by Artw at 3:49 PM on June 6, 2009
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posted by autodidact at 9:10 AM on June 1, 2009 [1 favorite]