Comments on: "Hey. Whatever you just said was really stupid."

"Hey. Whatever you just said was really stupid."

The Whelk — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:15:14 -0800

Following in the fine tradition of The Nietzsche Family Circus (previously), Pearls Before Swine, And the Dysfunctional Family Circus, comes Scott Meets Family Circus ( via and self-salvaged from metachat)

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:22:39 -0800

I don't understand why this is even remotely funny

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:25:37 -0800

Scott's bio says "Scott Gairdner is a Los Angeles-based sketch comedy group comprised of Scott Gairdner and Scott Gairdner. Haha! As that example demonstrates, Scott is hilarious! " so...nasreddin... that may clear that up for you.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:28:28 -0800

Some of them kinda are funny, although one gets the feeling that he started this just to draw himself making out with Mrs Keane.

By: robocop is bleeding

robocop is bleeding — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:01 -0800

Wouldn't you?

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:35 -0800

I don't understand why this is even remotely funny No, I am sorry, you are wrong. These are very funny.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:33:39 -0800

As that example demonstrates, Scott is ~~hilarious~~ not really very funny, just full of semi-trendoid snark! FTFY.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:38:01 -0800

For example, this is really funny.

By: orme

orme — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:39:24 -0800

this is not a funny guy. http://www.thedailytube.com/video/8232/scott-gairdner-does-a-million-impressions

By: consummate dilettante

consummate dilettante — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:39:30 -0800

+1 for the funny. Especially this one.

By: SpiffyRob

SpiffyRob — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:42:23 -0800

It helps if you already have it out for Family Circus. I think they're chuckle-worthy. Kind of like a slightly more reeled in Marmaduke Explained.

By: joe lisboa

joe lisboa — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:45:11 -0800

I, for one, laughed. Thanks for the link.

By: PugAchev

PugAchev — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:46:42 -0800

wow, so not funny.

By: echo target

echo target — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:47:16 -0800

Not funny. And neither is Achewood, for that matter. Perhaps there's some kind of subculture I don't understand. Marmaduke Explained is pretty good, though.

By: not_on_display

not_on_display — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:51:11 -0800

/me drives by slowly, rolls the window down a crack, stares icily at The Whelk for a few seconds, and drives off quickly. ^{^}nasreddin: "I don't understand why this is even remotely funny" You're next.

By: dersins

dersins — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:54:18 -0800

Not funny. And neither is Achewood, your doin it wrong

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:55:34 -0800

I lol'd, especially at the live action one.

By: echo target

echo target — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:55:52 -0800

They always say you're doin' it rong, but they never tell you how to do it rite!

By: DU

DU — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:56:41 -0800

Achewood is hilarious, but only readable if you don't mind dogs in speedos. Which I do.

By: mkb

mkb — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:57:59 -0800

Ray Smuckles is a cat. You may return to your Achewood reading.

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:58:17 -0800

Optimus Chyme: "I don't understand why this is even remotely funny No, I am sorry, you are wrong. These are very funny." No, I am sorry, YOU are wrong, This is comedy cancer. This is fun!

By: metagnathous

metagnathous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:04:07 -0800

I think it's time for Alien vs. Family Circus. Think about it.

By: echo target

echo target — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:04:53 -0800

I think it's more like comedy's vestigial tail. It's not killing the host, but it sure is annoying it, and it's kind of embarrassing.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:06:41 -0800

Achewood is hilarious, but only readable if you don't mind dogs in speedos. Which I do. Ray Smuckles is a cat. You may return to your Achewood reading. I will amend my statement: Achewood is hilarious, but only readable if you don't mind cats that look like dogs. Which I do.

By: The White Hat

The White Hat — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:12:17 -0800

Say what you will about Scott Gairdner, but I will NOT have you bad-mouthing Achewood on the internet.

By: rkent

rkent — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:12:55 -0800

This Nietzsche one is a great pairing.

By: 7segment

7segment — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:14:57 -0800

This is funny on about the same level as that pooping is funny. Achewood is funny on about that level, if afterwards you take the poop, affix googly-eyes and faerie-wings to it, suspend it from the ceiling with nylon monofilament line, build an elaborate diorama around it with supporting characters, and caption it with an obscure yet subtly insightful witticism which only makes sense to the 5% of your audience who have been faithfully reading turd-butterfly comics every single fucking day for the last four years. Which is to say that Achewood tries too hard and is not funny.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:15:19 -0800

This makes me indescribably happy. Between this and the mind-melting demo post, I felt like today was the day when Metafilter finally reached it's true potential. Would favorite again. And then of course I came into the thread to find the usual collection of people who feel compelled to comment in every single damn thread and as such came in here with the sole express purpose of shitting in here, not realizing that they, themselves, are the assholes in that situation, and not the person who made the FPP, and everything went back to normal. THis is hilarious. Achewood is wesome but not to everyone's tastes. Fucking FIAMO if something needs to be flagged, and just move on if something ain't your cup of tea. God-dammit!

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:20:09 -0800

I vote funny with a dash of creepy as fuck.

By: echo target

echo target — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:21:19 -0800

Calm down, Navelgazer, we're just weighing in here. If you like it, great! More power to ya.

By: threetoed

threetoed — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:36:18 -0800

These seemed really lame at first, but they've started to grow on me. I laughed pretty hard at this one.

By: infinitewindow

infinitewindow — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:36:45 -0800

After reading this thread, one wonders if Mr. Gairdner would do this with Achewood. The "One key is fine, thanks" was fantastic. Everything else was kind of meh.

By: metagnathous

metagnathous — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:42:21 -0800

Look at this with the Residents playing in the background. Makes more sense that way.

By: hifiparasol

hifiparasol — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:42:42 -0800

I like this. But someone needs to explain to me why Achewood is funny.

By: WinnipegDragon

WinnipegDragon — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:49:08 -0800

Not funny. And neither is Achewood, for that matter. The FUCK?!

By: joelhunt

joelhunt — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:56:40 -0800

Man, if you don't think this is funny.... then you and I have at least slightly differing senses of humor. Jerk.

By: barrett caulk

barrett caulk — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:58:29 -0800

Enh. The problem I gots with this is that Family Circus is too easy a target. It doesn't really take that much imagination or talent to subvert an popular icon of saccharine goodle days innocence. Good catch, DU: this guy gets off on the fantasy of fucking Thel. More power to him, I suppose. If you waterboarded me, I would confess to having crushes on a few cartoon ladies.

By: threetoed

threetoed — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:02:47 -0800

But someone needs to explain to me why Achewood is funny. I don't think it can be explained. Achewood is either one of the funniest things you have ever seen, or completely unfunny. There is no middle ground.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:05:31 -0800

"Fucking FIAMO if something needs to be flagged, and just move on if something ain't your cup of tea. God-dammit!" see.... now THAT's funny.... except I don't know how to pronounce "FIAMO", is that "FEE-A-MO" or "FI-A-MO"?...

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:10:21 -0800

What the crap is Scott, why does this make sense, and what's supposed to be funny about it?

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:14:13 -0800

Calm down, Navelgazer, we're just weighing in here. If you like it, great! More power to ya. Navelgazer takes his likes and dislikes very seriously. It makes a lot more sense if you know him.

By: Skot

Skot — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:15:40 -0800

I don't think it can be explained. Achewood is either one of the funniest things you have ever seen, or completely unfunny. There is no middle ground. I actually take the middle ground. I laughed at times during the famous Giant-Ass Fight or whatever it was; but those times were matched by the times I stared silently. except I don't know how to pronounce "FIAMO", is that "FEE-A-MO" or "FI-A-MO"?... *Sigh* Every time I see it, I get stuck with a fucking Lara Branigan "Ti Amo" earworm.

By: redsparkler

redsparkler — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:16:32 -0800

It's kind of like Marmaduke Explained, but the commenter was so irritated that he underwent a highly experimental procedure to actually became a comic himself, so that he might better explain the character's deficiencies to their very face.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:19:07 -0800

I like it. The next time I masochistically read Family Circus, rather than seething in something-less-than-rage I can simply imangine this guy telling those potato-headed kids off.

By: Xoebe

Xoebe — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:21:33 -0800

I tried really hard to like Achewood, really I did. These are pretty funny, but funny in the ironic sense, which is sort of a tautological funny. Satire that ultimately becomes a parody of self - the artist is subtly pointing out that his comments actually aren't funny, either. And that is kind of funny. Sort of a comedic square of negative one. So, I chuckled a little, at some of them. [alternate response: "They funny because they're true!!!!]

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:22:21 -0800

"Ti Amo" I don't know how to pronounce that either. In fact, I have problems with "either" as well... is it "I-ther" or "E-ther"

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:26:26 -0800

I lol'd, especially at the live action one. So...he's chloroforming Billy?

By: graventy

graventy — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:32:49 -0800

What the crap is Scott, why does this make sense, and what's supposed to be funny about it? Your first question was already answered. It makes sense because he's extending the traditional one-panel layout into multiple panels, which we can follow logically. I recommend Understanding Comics. It supposed to be funny because it subverts the 'gentle humor' of the Family Circus. I liked it, thanks!

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:34:11 -0800

Fee-Ahh-Moe. And I'm not crazy about this but I still think The Whelk es muy excelente.

By: geos

geos — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:42:27 -0800

I'm partial to this Nietzsche Family one...

By: ijoshua

ijoshua — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:43:40 -0800

There doesn't seem to be a option to flag as "I don't get it."

By: wendell

wendell — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:48:33 -0800

This did not make me laugh. It made me sad. I'll remember the name Scott Gairdner as someone whose work should be avoided if you want to be entertained. But more likely the next time we hear about him will be when he shoots a guard at the Museum of Comic Art. You know, because he thinks it's funny.

By: dersins

dersins — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:50:38 -0800

But more likely the next time we hear about him will be when he shoots a guard at the Museum of Comic Art. Speaking of not funny.

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:52:00 -0800

I like this. But someone needs to explain to me why Achewood is funny. Okay. Here's the deal. Achewood isn't funny. The whole "Achewood is funny meme" is a running MeFi joke. Kind of like how Pitchfork.com tries to make it look like they take Xiu Xiu seriously when, c'mon, you know they're totally bullshitting you. I mean have you listened to Xiu Xiu? They sound like someone shitting out a litter of kittens while being hit in the head repeatedly with a shovel. I hate to come out and just say it like this. Someone should probably just put it in the wiki already. The cabal newsletter already comes with a handy index of links to comments where people fall for the "Achewood is teh funniest shit on the intertubes" thing so you can point and laugh at the collective stupidity. So, yeah. That's pretty much it. You're in on the joke now.

By: Lentrohamsanin

Lentrohamsanin — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:58:22 -0800

Holy fuck, Wendell.

By: minifigs

minifigs — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:59:42 -0800

I laughed out loud at these and I have impeccable taste so there.

By: ook

ook — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:16:28 -0800

I laughed out loud at these but then discovered I was actually looking at a completely different and much funnier thing by mistake.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:17:36 -0800

I don't know how to pronounce "FIAMO", is that "FEE-A-MO" or "FI-A-MO"?

Two syllables: "fyeah-moh"

By: ijoshua

ijoshua — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:20:13 -0800

I thought wendell's comment was funnier than the FPP, but I'm a bad person.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:24:33 -0800

barret caulk has it. Let's see Laffmeister Scott try this shit with Bloom County or Calvin and Hobbes.

By: barrett caulk

barrett caulk — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:26:24 -0800

And while I don't think this work is funny, it does remind me of the time I challenged Lynn Johnston to a high-stakes footrace. On the line? If I won, I got to write a year's worth of For Better or For Worse story lines. She agreed! (I might have told her it was for charity, I don't remember.) Well, I don't know if she was just exhausted from trying to make deadlines or what (though she did smell faintly of liquor), but I trounced her. So I sent her an outline of my ideas: At the tender age of sixteen, April ends up pregnant. The father is never revealed, though the reader does learn that she loves him desperately despite the fact that he works on an off-shore oil rig eight months of the year. Michael's second book is savaged by the press, with even Alice Munro declaring publicly that "it made me vomit in my mouth a little." Devastated and on an epic bender, he is coaxed by Weed into an oxycontin binge that proves nearly fatal. Deanna, fed up with his self-destructive narcissism, moves in temporarily with Lawrence and his hubby. But a lingering homophobia leaves her with a nagging fear for the mental well-being of Meredith and Robin (who are having pronounced 'behavioral issues' at school since the split). Elizabeth's nude web-cam site, started to supplement her meager teaching salary, garners huge traffic leading to an empire of porno-cam sites. She is wealthy, though she is being sued by a number "employees" alleging coercion among other unsavory business practices. Iris, employing the tried and true pillow method, plays "angel of mercy" for the long-suffering Grandpa Jim, resulting in a prison stretch wherein she teaches inmates to read . . . from self-composed texts that reveal a pathological obsession with End Times theology. Tidying John's model train workshop one day, Elly finds a butt-plug that he is at a loss to explain away. A nasty divorce follows, during which the readers learn of a history of serial infidelity on the part of both. The marriage, with all its smiles and tears and moral aphorisms, was a lie the whole time. Anyway, she completely refused to honor her end of the deal. She kept saying, "I've never shook on it! I never shook on it!" Though I'm telling you: the bitch shook on it. So before you go drop your hard earned cash on the latest FBOFW collection, think about the lack of integrity and ethical poverty of its creator.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:31:56 -0800

okay, I'll admit it. I like the FPP, but barrett caulk's comment was better.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:37:14 -0800

More to the point, maybe, is that Scott is trying to do what MAD did better sixty years ago. Remember what Elder and Kurtzman did to Gasoline Alley? This passage is wrong in so many ways!

By: Lipstick Thespian

Lipstick Thespian — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:54:16 -0800

The thing I don't like about this Scott meets Family Circus is primarily how self-congratulatory AND how creepy it is. It's like listening to the most sarcastic friend you have make a sick joke about leaving his girlfriend in a trunk somewhere, and then realizing you haven't seen her in awhile. Oh, and it's not funny. I kept going "oh I see what you did there," with it, but it didn't make it funnier.

By: Lipstick Thespian

Lipstick Thespian — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:57:13 -0800

Oh, and the Perry Bible Fellowship still remains hands-down the funniest thing I've ever seen online for comics. I double-dutch-dog dare any Metafilterite to find a comic online that's funnier than this.

By: mrnutty

mrnutty — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:59:22 -0800

It's funny because he's too cool to be funny. He will not stoop so low as to make these "jokes" you seem to want! It's metahumor!

By: dersins

dersins — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:59:45 -0800

I double-dutch-dog dare any Metafilterite to find a comic online that's funnier than this. In your face, LT. [mainpage]

By: !Jim

!Jim — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:12:54 -0800

Who is Scott? I feel like the people in here saying this is funny somehow know or know of this Scott character, and that is what makes it funny.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:16:55 -0800

I don't know Scott. I thought it was funny because when I started reading it I just thought it was a random skeevy character added in to make the Family Circus universe a little seedier, which is A-OK with me. The later (actually earlier) stuff of him doing the Marmaduke Explained thing isn't as funny.

By: palliser

palliser — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:32:24 -0800

I thought we weren't going to say "this sux" anymore, especially as one of the first comments in the thread. I thought we agreed to either come up with a fleshed-out critique, or ignore it. Thanks, Whelk! What I thought was good about it was that it made you just wait a beat, in spots, and think about the ridiculous content of the comic. It was basically rearranging the timing of the joke, in graphic form. Yes, you can do this on your own with Family Circus, but sometimes you're alone when you read Family Circus. This was like back home, your brother sitting next to you at the kitchen table in the mornings, saying "WTF Billy? what does that even mean?" with you. It's more fun that way.

By: Lipstick Thespian

Lipstick Thespian — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:41:09 -0800

Okay, Dersins - sure Calvin and Hobbes is always good. Now point me to a new, indie comic that's online-only (i.e. not previously serialized in a newspaper or in huge omnibus editions) that is funnier than Perry Bible Fellowship. Also, bonus discussion question: I firmly believe that Little Nemo in Slumberland is the finest comic ever made. Prove me wrong. Show me a comic from any age that is more gorgeously-drawn, more whimsically-told, or has more world-building detail contained within. seriously - Little Nemo in Slumberland is the absolute height of comics. I will fight you!

By: dersins

dersins — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:48:58 -0800

STOP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS DAMMIT!

By: Lipstick Thespian

Lipstick Thespian — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:11:52 -0800

there, there Dersins. Cookie?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:18:25 -0800

There really is no way to tell how many comments any particular post is going to get, is there?

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:20:52 -0800

I love me Little Nemo, but, well -- Krazy Kat.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:22:35 -0800

LT, I'd say that - accepting your Little-Nemo-centric criteria - Pogo and Calvin & Hobbes both reach about the same level of greatness, and of those three C&H is going to be more my thing, though Pogo and Little Nemo are amazing in their own rights. Also, while not as visually inventive or beautiful as Perry Bible Fellowship, smbc is consistently funny, and in a similarly dark vein (and it posts every day!)

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:35:38 -0800

The thing about Little Nemo is that it was not, after all, very funny. No one has more respect for McKay than I do, but let's face it -- Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend was generally funnier. McKay wasn't the best-ever comics writer, though the medium arguably never had a better draftsman. I would certainly put forth George Herriman as being a more intelligent and witty writer than Winsor McKay.

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:15:03 -0800

I love PBF but Dirtfarm makes me laugh every single time.

By: lekvar

lekvar — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:23:06 -0800

The difficulty with deadpan humor is that, well, there has to actually be humor involved. Show me a comic from any age that is more gorgeously-drawn, more whimsically-told, or has more world-building detail contained within. Little Nemo is good and all, but Pogo beats it hands down. Also, as previously mentioned, Krazy Kat.

By: wendell

wendell — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:24:14 -0800

not previously serialized in a newspaper or in huge omnibus editions Damn, that disqualifies Diesel Sweeties, where the witty wordplay blows me away almost every day (it crossed over into the newspapers for a year then r. stevens wisely backed away). I also am very consistently entertained by the newly ongoing comic omnibusery of Lore Sjöberg (but I've been a fanboy of his for years and his current attempt at a story arc does have some rough edges) and by Adam Koford's Laugh-Out-Loud Cats (bonus points for homage to classic comics mashed up with modern references so damn well - he's gone so far beyond its original 'one-joke' premise). And for skill in handling an ongoing complex storyline and sci-fi worldbuilding with a punchline-a-day, I'd declare a dead heat between Goats and Schlock Mercenary for best execution not just today but EVER. And Sinfest is the very definition of Irreverent Humor (while currently tiptoeing into relationship issues among the archetype characters for an extra dimension). Aaron "Dresden Codak" Diaz is also an incredible builder of worlds and explorer of concepts, if frustratingly non-prolific. There are dozens of "good" webcomics in my bookmarks, but those are my best of the best (I don't think smbc is as consistently funny as Navelgazer does, but it's still fairly high on my list, as are the inevitably-mentioned xkcd and Achewood). To claim that the Golden Age of Webcomics ended when Perry Bible Fellowship was retired is pure "things were better back in the day" closedmindedness. Nobody has matched PBF's style and tone and most that try are pale copies... except the sadly semi-retired Truck Bearing Kibble. In my opinion, there's enough extremely excellent webcomicking of varying styles and sensitivities going on today to fill a newspaper page with close-to-Pogo-quality content. Of course, there's also enough dreck to fill all the pages of an '80s era Sunday Times.

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:38:09 -0800

Wendell gets flagged and favorited in the same thread. A man of many contrasts.

By: Ian A.T.

Ian A.T. — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:54:59 -0800

By special request: Alien Vs Family Circus

By: decagon

decagon — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:23:29 -0800

I can't figure out how Achewood relates to this. The two strips bear no similarities apart from—I don't know, both are kind of raunchy, I guess? But the overlap ends there. If Achewood is Gustav Klimt, Scott is Art Frahm.

By: crataegus

crataegus — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:38:40 -0800

Decagon, Achewood is related because everything I don't like is unfunny, pretentious crap, and no one else has any taste. Everyone else is an uncultured lout, and everything they like is all the same.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:41:27 -0800

comics.

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:08:48 -0800

I double-dutch-dog dare any Metafilterite to find a comic online that's funnier than this. Oh, you've not met Emily Flake's genius?

By: Lipstick Thespian

Lipstick Thespian — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:29:22 -0800

Omigod - Kittyprecious - YOU WIN. Emily Flake is the BOMB. Pure evil genius.

By: crataegus

crataegus — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:44:16 -0800

I like Emily Flake, but I feel guilty reading something from a Kreider free City Paper.