WoW Detox
June 19, 2009 7:50 PM Subscribe
WoW Detox -- "WoWdetox is a volunteer-run web site aimed at people with a gaming addiction to World of Warcraft. Here gamers and ex-gamers can share their testimonies freely and anonymously."
I just quit playing WoW after three years. It's a great game, and I really enjoyed playing it. It's definitely a game that can suck up all available time, but I'm not sure the addiction metaphor is the best way to describe it. That being said, I'm glad for the time I have back. Even if it's time I use to be playing other video games.
One thing that bugs me about my 25 hours/wk WoW playing is that despite all the social experiences playing the game with my guild, in the end those friendships seem pretty ephemeral. I doubt I'll keep up with more than one or two of the people I met in the last three years. More thoughts in a blog post I just wrote.
posted by Nelson at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2009
One thing that bugs me about my 25 hours/wk WoW playing is that despite all the social experiences playing the game with my guild, in the end those friendships seem pretty ephemeral. I doubt I'll keep up with more than one or two of the people I met in the last three years. More thoughts in a blog post I just wrote.
posted by Nelson at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2009
This one would probably be even funnier if I knew anything about the specifics of the game:
"I swear if I see someone IRL [in real life] with a blue question mark above their head there will be blood."
posted by Clay201 at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
"I swear if I see someone IRL [in real life] with a blue question mark above their head there will be blood."
posted by Clay201 at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've heard a web forum where some former WoW players hang out described as a retirement community for ex-raiders.
posted by ODiV at 8:10 PM on June 19, 2009
posted by ODiV at 8:10 PM on June 19, 2009
"hi, my name is grishnakh, and i'm a WoW addict!"
posted by pyramid termite at 8:13 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 8:13 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Illustrated World of Warcraft Diary (via mefi's own Rob Cockerham.)
posted by acro at 8:15 PM on June 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by acro at 8:15 PM on June 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
I met my boyfriend playing wow. Two and a half years and still going strong! We've been living together for the past 11 months. I recently lured him back to the game, and our guild has been revived after 9-10 months of people leaving / playing warhammer. There's a lot to love about wow. I've been through periods of playing hardly at all, or playing a different game (pirates of the burning sea, warhammer). But I always come back. I think most people do.
posted by marble at 8:34 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by marble at 8:34 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am so happy I quit WoW.
I started playing a long time ago as a social thing. I played because a friend of mine from college played, so it was sort of fun learning a new game, especially when I knew someone who could help me out from time to time (I remember getting killed in Ragefire Chasm a bunch of times because I was trying to solo it at level 14 - I didn't understand the concept of instanced dungeons).
Eventually, we started to raid. Not long before the 3.1 patch hit, guild drama and personality clashes caused our raiding guild to dissolve. I decided that getting stressed out from playing a game was insane, and therefore I could find much more productive ways to spend my time.
Yet... there is still a part of me that misses my level 80 DK. Seeing this WoW Detox site is making me seriously consider calling Blizzard to have them perma-ban my account.
posted by threetoed at 8:39 PM on June 19, 2009
I started playing a long time ago as a social thing. I played because a friend of mine from college played, so it was sort of fun learning a new game, especially when I knew someone who could help me out from time to time (I remember getting killed in Ragefire Chasm a bunch of times because I was trying to solo it at level 14 - I didn't understand the concept of instanced dungeons).
Eventually, we started to raid. Not long before the 3.1 patch hit, guild drama and personality clashes caused our raiding guild to dissolve. I decided that getting stressed out from playing a game was insane, and therefore I could find much more productive ways to spend my time.
Yet... there is still a part of me that misses my level 80 DK. Seeing this WoW Detox site is making me seriously consider calling Blizzard to have them perma-ban my account.
posted by threetoed at 8:39 PM on June 19, 2009
One of my best friends was pretty heavy into a different WoW-style game a few years back...Lineage 2, I think it was. On the day of my wedding he informed me that he and his girlfriend (who also played) had skipped a siege of an opposing guild's castle to be there, and the rest of their guild was pissed.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:42 PM on June 19, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:42 PM on June 19, 2009 [8 favorites]
It's been a year, maybe closer to two since I quit WoW. I mostly don't miss it, as I find myself having a lot more fun from other hobbies. I derive more satisfaction, and feel like less of my time is spend "preparing to have fun" like grinding in WoW feels. That said, my hobbies now (XBox, Wii, Magic, board games) cost more than $15/month. WoW is insidious in that it can become your only social life, but at least it's really cheap.
posted by explosion at 8:43 PM on June 19, 2009
posted by explosion at 8:43 PM on June 19, 2009
Hmm, this is a pretty interesting subject to me as someone who plays WoW and also has dealt with a substance abuse problem.
After I hadn't had a drink for a while, I became obsessed with quitting these other "things" that were plaguing my life. WoW was one of them. So I put it away. I canceled my accounts, I sold off all my gear, and I just went back to the real world, where I had things to take care of.
The interesting thing was when I started playing the game again: unlike alcohol, WoW didn't continue to escalate. Instead, taking the time off from the game taught me the value of playing casually. It just changed the way I interacted with the game.
I'm never going to have that experience with alcohol where I just go back to it casually and everything is okay and I can just kind of enjoy it in moderation. I have tried to be a casual drinker enough to know that I'm not capable of it. Luckily, I can be a casual gamer.
But I'm glad to see that there are resources out there for people who aren't capable of playing the game casually.
Okay, I'm going to go back to leveling my mage.
posted by greekphilosophy at 9:01 PM on June 19, 2009 [15 favorites]
After I hadn't had a drink for a while, I became obsessed with quitting these other "things" that were plaguing my life. WoW was one of them. So I put it away. I canceled my accounts, I sold off all my gear, and I just went back to the real world, where I had things to take care of.
The interesting thing was when I started playing the game again: unlike alcohol, WoW didn't continue to escalate. Instead, taking the time off from the game taught me the value of playing casually. It just changed the way I interacted with the game.
I'm never going to have that experience with alcohol where I just go back to it casually and everything is okay and I can just kind of enjoy it in moderation. I have tried to be a casual drinker enough to know that I'm not capable of it. Luckily, I can be a casual gamer.
But I'm glad to see that there are resources out there for people who aren't capable of playing the game casually.
Okay, I'm going to go back to leveling my mage.
posted by greekphilosophy at 9:01 PM on June 19, 2009 [15 favorites]
What a boring site design! If they really want to succeed, they should allow you to create an avatar which fully describes your precise weaknesses and triggers when it comes to World of Warcraft.
Then the site should allow you to go on "journeys". By completing these "journeys" you learn more about the world around you and the people in it, thus helping you to recover from your additction to WoW.
At certain milestones, called "steps," you progress further along the "road to recovery" and receive a number of ways to strengthen your "characteristics" which, as time goes on, just strengthens your will to never play WoW again.
You could even join in with other like-minded people in recovery and find strength in numbers for the more difficult "journeys"!!! Charge a nominal monthly membership fee -- or serve free coffee and doughnuts! -- and this thing could truly be a life-saving moneymaker!
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:03 PM on June 19, 2009 [34 favorites]
Then the site should allow you to go on "journeys". By completing these "journeys" you learn more about the world around you and the people in it, thus helping you to recover from your additction to WoW.
At certain milestones, called "steps," you progress further along the "road to recovery" and receive a number of ways to strengthen your "characteristics" which, as time goes on, just strengthens your will to never play WoW again.
You could even join in with other like-minded people in recovery and find strength in numbers for the more difficult "journeys"!!! Charge a nominal monthly membership fee -- or serve free coffee and doughnuts! -- and this thing could truly be a life-saving moneymaker!
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:03 PM on June 19, 2009 [34 favorites]
I played World of Warcraft for about three months. I left just before seeing what was so addicting about it, I think -- like I came up to the abyss but didn't get quite close enough to look down. That's probably for the best.
posted by danb at 9:04 PM on June 19, 2009
posted by danb at 9:04 PM on June 19, 2009
I quit earlier this year after playing since release. I actually only ever played because the people in my guild were unusually cool and funny, and they're really the only thing I miss. I still keep up with a lot of them outside the game, though.
posted by Nattie at 9:05 PM on June 19, 2009
posted by Nattie at 9:05 PM on June 19, 2009
"WoW is special in many ways. But I have finally realized that so am I. "
That is just chilling and brutal; too quintessential for snark.
posted by Benjamin Nushmutt at 9:06 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
That is just chilling and brutal; too quintessential for snark.
posted by Benjamin Nushmutt at 9:06 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've never played WoW (and after seeing this, I will never try it), but this quote struck me as wise:
"Wow is a good game, but it's a bad life."
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:15 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
"Wow is a good game, but it's a bad life."
posted by Salvor Hardin at 9:15 PM on June 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
"They have banner ads for a golf resort. That's textbook ironic."
I can see it now, WOW addict playing on the green. Thinks, "I should work on my swing stat..."
AI desperately need this sort of thing, but for Nethack addicts. (inspired by that recent AJAX Nethack post)
posted by Askiba at 9:16 PM on June 19, 2009
I can see it now, WOW addict playing on the green. Thinks, "I should work on my swing stat..."
AI desperately need this sort of thing, but for Nethack addicts. (inspired by that recent AJAX Nethack post)
posted by Askiba at 9:16 PM on June 19, 2009
I tried it twice and didn't get it. It's cartoony, there is (was?) a low level cap and the majority of people who play it are morons who follow beginner characters around trying to pvp. Never had any interest in playing, despite giving it a second chance to see what all the hype was about.
I think what draws people to the game is that their friends are playing it. Their friends' friends are playing it. So they feel part of some crowd or clique, or feel 'accepted' while also showing off skills that don't actually exist.
Now L4D on the other hand, while it's very beta-like, I got lost for weeks in. Because I just fucking love killing me some zombies.
posted by Malice at 9:19 PM on June 19, 2009
I think what draws people to the game is that their friends are playing it. Their friends' friends are playing it. So they feel part of some crowd or clique, or feel 'accepted' while also showing off skills that don't actually exist.
Now L4D on the other hand, while it's very beta-like, I got lost for weeks in. Because I just fucking love killing me some zombies.
posted by Malice at 9:19 PM on June 19, 2009
"Wow is a good game, but it's a bad life."
and yet how many millions of people would choose to substitute this experience 24/7/365 for the real-world if that were physically and economically possible?
posted by @troy at 9:36 PM on June 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
and yet how many millions of people would choose to substitute this experience 24/7/365 for the real-world if that were physically and economically possible?
posted by @troy at 9:36 PM on June 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
I can see it now, WOW addict playing on the green.
Ridiculous! Golf is too fast-paced for most WoW players.
posted by pokermonk at 9:41 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ridiculous! Golf is too fast-paced for most WoW players.
posted by pokermonk at 9:41 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ridiculous! Golf is too fast-paced for most WoW players.
Ah, yes... but like trying to quit caffeine. You'd start with just less WOW everyday, then maybe a lighter RPG, then perhaps an adventure game. That general idea of small steps. Then eventually, golf!
posted by Askiba at 9:48 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ah, yes... but like trying to quit caffeine. You'd start with just less WOW everyday, then maybe a lighter RPG, then perhaps an adventure game. That general idea of small steps. Then eventually, golf!
posted by Askiba at 9:48 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
WoWdetox is strangely addicting.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:56 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:56 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
For me and for all the people who've never played WoW... can you players, addicts, and recovering addicts describe what it is that makes the game so enjoyable? Malice says it's purely a social thing. Is there more to it than that?
posted by Clay201 at 10:21 PM on June 19, 2009
posted by Clay201 at 10:21 PM on June 19, 2009
Is there more to it than that?
Blizzard is good at giving you tiny little rewards for incremental improvements, interspersed with big rewards.
Plus frankly there's a lot of fun, creative stuff in the game. Like for instance a little train set you can set down. And also a train set smasher you can set down to smash someone else's train set. Those people are geniuses.
posted by marble at 10:32 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Blizzard is good at giving you tiny little rewards for incremental improvements, interspersed with big rewards.
Plus frankly there's a lot of fun, creative stuff in the game. Like for instance a little train set you can set down. And also a train set smasher you can set down to smash someone else's train set. Those people are geniuses.
posted by marble at 10:32 PM on June 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Is there more to it than that?
I played the crap out of Wizardry I back in the 1980s. Levelling up even back then was fun stuff, you get new goodies and powers (TILTOWAIT!) and become an ever Badder Dude in the game. Combining this with 2000-era technology of broadband internet shared worlds, massive online population, realtime 3D graphics, microphone headset live chat, lua-scripted UI customization, social gaming webboards and the guilding organization, I can certainly see the attraction and stickiness!
Funny thing though is that the WoW world design and thematics do absolutely zip for me. Maybe I'm too played out being in my 40s, but the whole thing seems so derivative and luke-warm if not downright lame. Heck, I was first exposed to Uber Liches back in the 1970s with Dungeon Module S1.
posted by @troy at 10:51 PM on June 19, 2009
I played the crap out of Wizardry I back in the 1980s. Levelling up even back then was fun stuff, you get new goodies and powers (TILTOWAIT!) and become an ever Badder Dude in the game. Combining this with 2000-era technology of broadband internet shared worlds, massive online population, realtime 3D graphics, microphone headset live chat, lua-scripted UI customization, social gaming webboards and the guilding organization, I can certainly see the attraction and stickiness!
Funny thing though is that the WoW world design and thematics do absolutely zip for me. Maybe I'm too played out being in my 40s, but the whole thing seems so derivative and luke-warm if not downright lame. Heck, I was first exposed to Uber Liches back in the 1970s with Dungeon Module S1.
posted by @troy at 10:51 PM on June 19, 2009
Exactly what Marble said. If you got B.F. Skinner and a room full of the world's foremost behaviorists, they could not design a more addictive model of rewards.
World of Warcraft has the perfect combination of fixed rate and random rewards. The rewards are scaled precisely so that at each lvl up, the next reward is just a little further way. Couple this with the random chance of finding a super item. Combine this with peer pressure and escapism.
The immediate appeal of World of Warcraft comes from the tangible progress and goals in the system. At first you only have to kill a few rats to level up. You deliver a message and you get a new sword. Slay the right ogre and you get 10 gold. There are very few systems in real life with such direct and immediate reward system.
In real life it works like this: study hard for 12 years and maybe get into a good college, then maybe get a good job, then maybe make enough money to retire. Or maybe work very hard in a boring job for 2 weeks and get a paycheck a few days later. There's no immediate reward for doing a good job, everything is delayed. In WoW every action is rewarded. Why work hard at something in real life that takes years to accomplish when you can feel immediate satisfaction from a few hours of playing a game?
There is no one who has played WoW who doesn't get excited when they here the level up "ding" sound. You could quit for 5 years, then hear it again and know EXACTLY what that sound means. Someone just leveled up. It's like Pavlov's dogs and the salivation.
As mentioned above, WoW also has a random element that makes gambling so addictive. Having that 1% chance of finding a purple (super awesome, rare) item has a huge affect on behavior. Like someone at a roulette or blackjack table, players feel like the next big payoff is just around the corner.
There is a guild system in WoW where players are dependent on each other. As mentioned by other people, there is huge social pressure to be on Wow at specfic times of the day. If you do not participate, then you are shunned out of the guild. This prevents you from getting access to the really good stuff. Like highschool, there are cliques and social cues that let you know who is cool or not. A level 60 walking around with all green (mediocre) gear is not as cool as the the hardcore guy with all rare and legendary items.
Keep in mind how "real" MMOs are for some people. There are countless articles by people like Julian Bell, Ed Castronova, Clive Thompson, and also Cory Doctorow who measure the real wealth generated and traded in these worlds. We're talking economies worth more than many african countries. We're talking about online currency exchange between different games with dynamically changing values. We're talking about people neglecting their children to the point of starvation. People playing for so long they die of exhaustion. People getting so worked up over their imaginary items that they physically attack other players with swords in real life.
When you spend 12+ hours a day playing one of these games, it IS your life. Those guild mates ARE your friends. That glowing sword of fiery death IS your most valued possession.
I think that covers it. Sorry for the hyperbole at the end, but all those examples are true. There's nothing I mentioned that can't be backed up by a newspaper article or an academic paper.
posted by Telf at 10:54 PM on June 19, 2009 [34 favorites]
World of Warcraft has the perfect combination of fixed rate and random rewards. The rewards are scaled precisely so that at each lvl up, the next reward is just a little further way. Couple this with the random chance of finding a super item. Combine this with peer pressure and escapism.
The immediate appeal of World of Warcraft comes from the tangible progress and goals in the system. At first you only have to kill a few rats to level up. You deliver a message and you get a new sword. Slay the right ogre and you get 10 gold. There are very few systems in real life with such direct and immediate reward system.
In real life it works like this: study hard for 12 years and maybe get into a good college, then maybe get a good job, then maybe make enough money to retire. Or maybe work very hard in a boring job for 2 weeks and get a paycheck a few days later. There's no immediate reward for doing a good job, everything is delayed. In WoW every action is rewarded. Why work hard at something in real life that takes years to accomplish when you can feel immediate satisfaction from a few hours of playing a game?
There is no one who has played WoW who doesn't get excited when they here the level up "ding" sound. You could quit for 5 years, then hear it again and know EXACTLY what that sound means. Someone just leveled up. It's like Pavlov's dogs and the salivation.
As mentioned above, WoW also has a random element that makes gambling so addictive. Having that 1% chance of finding a purple (super awesome, rare) item has a huge affect on behavior. Like someone at a roulette or blackjack table, players feel like the next big payoff is just around the corner.
There is a guild system in WoW where players are dependent on each other. As mentioned by other people, there is huge social pressure to be on Wow at specfic times of the day. If you do not participate, then you are shunned out of the guild. This prevents you from getting access to the really good stuff. Like highschool, there are cliques and social cues that let you know who is cool or not. A level 60 walking around with all green (mediocre) gear is not as cool as the the hardcore guy with all rare and legendary items.
Keep in mind how "real" MMOs are for some people. There are countless articles by people like Julian Bell, Ed Castronova, Clive Thompson, and also Cory Doctorow who measure the real wealth generated and traded in these worlds. We're talking economies worth more than many african countries. We're talking about online currency exchange between different games with dynamically changing values. We're talking about people neglecting their children to the point of starvation. People playing for so long they die of exhaustion. People getting so worked up over their imaginary items that they physically attack other players with swords in real life.
When you spend 12+ hours a day playing one of these games, it IS your life. Those guild mates ARE your friends. That glowing sword of fiery death IS your most valued possession.
I think that covers it. Sorry for the hyperbole at the end, but all those examples are true. There's nothing I mentioned that can't be backed up by a newspaper article or an academic paper.
posted by Telf at 10:54 PM on June 19, 2009 [34 favorites]
I can see it now, WOW addict playing on the green.
I only need to farm 10 more balls out of the water hazard and we'll be ready to raid the 12th hole.
posted by ryoshu at 11:21 PM on June 19, 2009 [5 favorites]
I only need to farm 10 more balls out of the water hazard and we'll be ready to raid the 12th hole.
posted by ryoshu at 11:21 PM on June 19, 2009 [5 favorites]
Telf: "There is no one who has played WoW who doesn't get excited when they here the level up "ding" sound. You could quit for 5 years, then hear it again and know EXACTLY what that sound means. Someone just leveled up. It's like Pavlov's dogs and the salivation."
Just imagining this sound makes me want to spend a talent point.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:00 AM on June 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
Just imagining this sound makes me want to spend a talent point.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:00 AM on June 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
There is no one who has played WoW who doesn't get excited when they here the level up "ding" sound.
I played WoW for a couple of hours and I have to say, I just didn't get it. I'm not trying to be one of those "I don't even own a TV"-type people. I played another MMORPG for quite a while that I enjoyed (City of Heroes). But I just could not get into Warcraft at all. I felt the graphics were unimpressive (perhaps that was due to my system), and I was totally daunted and ultimately bored by all the options. Which skills to pick, which career paths to follow, which items to use, to buy, to discard, etc.
Maybe I just like things super-simple... after all, in City of Heroes, there are basically no items, and a fairly limited range of power-ups to choose from at each level. It also got pretty repetitive and bland, which is why I stopped playing. (Not even the strongest "superhero" in the game can pick up a car or smash a wall.) So maybe WoW's complexity is what keeps it so vibrant for so many people for so long. But it was a total barrier to me.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:04 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I played WoW for a couple of hours and I have to say, I just didn't get it. I'm not trying to be one of those "I don't even own a TV"-type people. I played another MMORPG for quite a while that I enjoyed (City of Heroes). But I just could not get into Warcraft at all. I felt the graphics were unimpressive (perhaps that was due to my system), and I was totally daunted and ultimately bored by all the options. Which skills to pick, which career paths to follow, which items to use, to buy, to discard, etc.
Maybe I just like things super-simple... after all, in City of Heroes, there are basically no items, and a fairly limited range of power-ups to choose from at each level. It also got pretty repetitive and bland, which is why I stopped playing. (Not even the strongest "superhero" in the game can pick up a car or smash a wall.) So maybe WoW's complexity is what keeps it so vibrant for so many people for so long. But it was a total barrier to me.
In real life it works like this: study hard for 12 years and maybe get into a good college, then maybe get a good job, then maybe make enough money to retire. Or maybe work very hard in a boring job for 2 weeks and get a paycheck a few days later. There's no immediate reward for doing a good job, everything is delayed.Reminds me of this genius MeFi comment.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 12:04 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm posting this alt-tabbed out of WoW right now. I don't think I'm addicted. I would miss it if it was gone, but I don't feel the all-consuming force that others describe. Sure - it's sometimes difficult to put down, but then so is any other game, or even a good book.
What I love most about it is the massive vast world (it takes *hours* to walk from the end of one continent to the other, and there are four) and the sense of community. There's always something else to do - something else to see or achieve. It's a remarkable piece of creative work from Blizzard.
Although I briefly log in most days (to check auctions, etc), I only indulge in a "session" of play maybe once or twice a week. That doesn't seem to be much compared to other people I know who've quit because they thought they were playing too much.
In reality, I think the "WoW addiction" story has probably scared more people off the game than have ever actually been addicted to it.
posted by radioedit at 1:33 AM on June 20, 2009
What I love most about it is the massive vast world (it takes *hours* to walk from the end of one continent to the other, and there are four) and the sense of community. There's always something else to do - something else to see or achieve. It's a remarkable piece of creative work from Blizzard.
Although I briefly log in most days (to check auctions, etc), I only indulge in a "session" of play maybe once or twice a week. That doesn't seem to be much compared to other people I know who've quit because they thought they were playing too much.
In reality, I think the "WoW addiction" story has probably scared more people off the game than have ever actually been addicted to it.
posted by radioedit at 1:33 AM on June 20, 2009
I played WoW obsessively for three years, pretty much from European launch. I don't think it's an addicted (there's no physical dependency) but it's definitely an obsession.
I was raiding at the highest level (at the time), seven nights a week. I felt unable to miss any raid, not because of the loot I might miss (I was damn well geared) but because it felt like missing that party that all your friends raved about the next day but to which you weren't invited. The sense of exclusion was palpable, and in that respect, the more geeky, socially inept (IRL) of us are perfect putty for the hands of Blizzard and WoW...
One day, I just decided to stop. I realised that if I was going to stop, I just needed to step away and do it, so at the end of a raid I announced over TS I was quitting the game, logged off and that was it...
I returned to the game with the release of WotLK, but I now playing very casually - some weeks I don't log on at all. I don't raid and I rarely instance. In fact, my major connection with the game is that I write a reasonably successful add-on so most of my time is spent testing and tweaking that and using the interface as a rather overblown chat system to keep in touch with friends.
Do I miss raiding? Yes, I do. I miss the cameraderie, the fun, the challenge and the sense of achievement. Are there benefits to WoW? Yes, I think it teaches people how to work in groups, how to organise themselves, how to plan and develop something in order to achieve goals. Is it addictive? No. Can you play too much? Definitely!
posted by benzo8 at 1:54 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was raiding at the highest level (at the time), seven nights a week. I felt unable to miss any raid, not because of the loot I might miss (I was damn well geared) but because it felt like missing that party that all your friends raved about the next day but to which you weren't invited. The sense of exclusion was palpable, and in that respect, the more geeky, socially inept (IRL) of us are perfect putty for the hands of Blizzard and WoW...
One day, I just decided to stop. I realised that if I was going to stop, I just needed to step away and do it, so at the end of a raid I announced over TS I was quitting the game, logged off and that was it...
I returned to the game with the release of WotLK, but I now playing very casually - some weeks I don't log on at all. I don't raid and I rarely instance. In fact, my major connection with the game is that I write a reasonably successful add-on so most of my time is spent testing and tweaking that and using the interface as a rather overblown chat system to keep in touch with friends.
Do I miss raiding? Yes, I do. I miss the cameraderie, the fun, the challenge and the sense of achievement. Are there benefits to WoW? Yes, I think it teaches people how to work in groups, how to organise themselves, how to plan and develop something in order to achieve goals. Is it addictive? No. Can you play too much? Definitely!
posted by benzo8 at 1:54 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I kind of like the ongoing implication that the only reason people play is because it's sinister and addictive; it couldn't possibly be that it's the best-designed MMO on the market, or one of the most polished gaming experiences in the genre, or actually- gasp!- fun. Nah, it must be that WoW players are idiot monkeys hitting the lever for a treat.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:00 AM on June 20, 2009 [16 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:00 AM on June 20, 2009 [16 favorites]
Dude. We're all idiot monkeys hitting the lever for a treat.
posted by Telf at 5:42 AM on June 20, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by Telf at 5:42 AM on June 20, 2009 [9 favorites]
Physical dependence is neither necessary nor sufficient for addiction. Cocaine doesn't cause physical dependence-- but no one today would be insane enough to argue that that means it's not addictive. Nor does methamphetamine. Ditto. [Note: obviously, psychologically being obsessed with something involves physical changes in the brain, no one has solved the mind/body problem and you do get mighty depressed and irritable trying to kick these drugs. But while you might feel awful mentally, you don't puke or shake or get diarrhea].
However, certain blood pressure medications cause physical dependence such that you can die if they aren't tapered. No one robs drugstores to get them though.
posted by Maias at 5:45 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
However, certain blood pressure medications cause physical dependence such that you can die if they aren't tapered. No one robs drugstores to get them though.
posted by Maias at 5:45 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
WoW blew rocks, Asheron's Call, now THAT was what an mmorpg should be.
The theme park atmosphere and instanced dungeons are way tooo restrictive.
The sandbox like nature of AC was so much more liberating.
posted by Max Power at 5:53 AM on June 20, 2009
The theme park atmosphere and instanced dungeons are way tooo restrictive.
The sandbox like nature of AC was so much more liberating.
posted by Max Power at 5:53 AM on June 20, 2009
I met my partner through WoW. I don't play much anymore, but he does, and I keep my account active to log on and catch up with our mutual friends every so often.
WoW isn't an addiction. It can become an obsession, but in my experience that's not likely to last more than a few months, which could be very disruptive, but not life-ruining. If you're still playing a lot after that, it's because of a combination of the following factors: you really enjoy the game, or are attached to the community in the game, or you need a place to hide.
Because WoW is a very safe, friendly, consequence-free place to hide. If you die, you can resurrect. If someone hates you, you can put them on /ignore. No matter how bad you are at the game, you can still make it to max level, complete epic quests and collect a lot of pretty cool stuff, like a super-fast flying dragon to ride. It's like this amazingly rewarding pretend job where all your friends work and from which you can never be fired.
I would warn anyone off WoW who is looking for a job, for example, because if you are unhappy with your situation and your life lacks structure, WoW can step in and become your structure and your illusion of progress.
But if you enjoy your real life, but you like RPGs and you have some friends who play, you're not going to be sucked into a vortex. It's a very good game and a game you can play for a very long time, but it really is just a game. People who become "addicted" to it actually have other problems.
posted by molybdenumblue at 6:15 AM on June 20, 2009 [7 favorites]
WoW isn't an addiction. It can become an obsession, but in my experience that's not likely to last more than a few months, which could be very disruptive, but not life-ruining. If you're still playing a lot after that, it's because of a combination of the following factors: you really enjoy the game, or are attached to the community in the game, or you need a place to hide.
Because WoW is a very safe, friendly, consequence-free place to hide. If you die, you can resurrect. If someone hates you, you can put them on /ignore. No matter how bad you are at the game, you can still make it to max level, complete epic quests and collect a lot of pretty cool stuff, like a super-fast flying dragon to ride. It's like this amazingly rewarding pretend job where all your friends work and from which you can never be fired.
I would warn anyone off WoW who is looking for a job, for example, because if you are unhappy with your situation and your life lacks structure, WoW can step in and become your structure and your illusion of progress.
But if you enjoy your real life, but you like RPGs and you have some friends who play, you're not going to be sucked into a vortex. It's a very good game and a game you can play for a very long time, but it really is just a game. People who become "addicted" to it actually have other problems.
posted by molybdenumblue at 6:15 AM on June 20, 2009 [7 favorites]
So I hate to ask, but, um... which way to Metafilter detox?
posted by LordSludge at 6:47 AM on June 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by LordSludge at 6:47 AM on June 20, 2009 [6 favorites]
I'm at a point where the hate part of my love-hate cycles are lasting longer (months) than the love (hours). Ever since I got my current job that put me completely at odds with my guildies' online time tables, the game's lost a lot of its social appeal. I guess I could go the soloing or PUG route, but then I get caught up in that OCD honey trap called tradeskills...
posted by vaghjar at 7:07 AM on June 20, 2009
posted by vaghjar at 7:07 AM on June 20, 2009
Dude. We're all idiot monkeys hitting the lever for a treat.
Similarly, my Guitar Hero buddies catch hell about how in the time they've spent perfecting Guitar Hero, they could probably already be decent actual guitarists. But it's really not about the guitar at all, it's about the constant gratifying feedback streaming forth from the game.
What we need is an interface for real instruments that hooks up to your brain, and jolts your pleasure centers as you play. Also, it makes you think you're a female night elf and keeps track of experience levels. We'd have trombone players shredding Paganini violin solos in a matter of days.
posted by jake at 7:18 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
Similarly, my Guitar Hero buddies catch hell about how in the time they've spent perfecting Guitar Hero, they could probably already be decent actual guitarists. But it's really not about the guitar at all, it's about the constant gratifying feedback streaming forth from the game.
What we need is an interface for real instruments that hooks up to your brain, and jolts your pleasure centers as you play. Also, it makes you think you're a female night elf and keeps track of experience levels. We'd have trombone players shredding Paganini violin solos in a matter of days.
posted by jake at 7:18 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
What we need is an interface for real instruments that hooks up to your brain, and jolts your pleasure centers as you play.
You mean the learning process?
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2009
You mean the learning process?
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2009
I quit WoW shortly before the newest patch came out. I enjoyed the questing and seeing new stuff, and when the next expansion drops I'll probably go back for a while, but... there comes a point where you've seen everything there is to see already, and what you're doing is running the same damn bosses in the same damn raid, praying that the PUGs don't fuck it up, praying for that small chance that the item you want will drop and the smaller chance that you'll win the roll for it. And because it doesn't, or you don't, or there's something else one of your guildies needs, you're back the next night doing the same damn thing again.
A lot of it is really fun -- the first time. Even the second or third time. But after that, no thanks. I just couldn't stand doing the same goddamn thing night after night any more. It stopped being fun, and turned into a job.
posted by rifflesby at 8:36 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
A lot of it is really fun -- the first time. Even the second or third time. But after that, no thanks. I just couldn't stand doing the same goddamn thing night after night any more. It stopped being fun, and turned into a job.
posted by rifflesby at 8:36 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I started something for former WoW players on a social networking site, and it's been an interesting experience. It started out as kind of a joke among a few of my friends, and soon a few strangers joined up, and then people from around the world, but I didn't pay that much attention to it, but a few months ago, it just exploded, particularly in Australia, and now there are over 10,000 of us. The most interesting part is the different motivations for joining. Mostly, there are those of us who stopped playing and realized how much we liked doing other things and how obsessed we had been with something we didn't really enjoy that much. Then there are the people whose friends or family play. I've had women join and say things like "I lost my fiance to that stupid game." That kind of thing is pretty common. Then there are the people who just like to make fun of WoW players, and of course we get the actual WoW players joining just to defend the game, explain that they're not addicted, etc. My favorite part of the whole thing, though are the kinds of testimonials like you see on WoWdetox.
A guy wroth this yesterday: "I think the most important thing about this group, is that it was created by people who identified that they have a problem. World of Warcraft isn't evil, it isn't a drug, but it can be addictive. The problem is, because it's a 'game', people who end up craving it more than a smoke, or a beer, aren't given the support they need by the general public. Well done Guys for offering a place to come to."
Definitely not what we set out to do, but nice.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 8:38 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
A guy wroth this yesterday: "I think the most important thing about this group, is that it was created by people who identified that they have a problem. World of Warcraft isn't evil, it isn't a drug, but it can be addictive. The problem is, because it's a 'game', people who end up craving it more than a smoke, or a beer, aren't given the support they need by the general public. Well done Guys for offering a place to come to."
Definitely not what we set out to do, but nice.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 8:38 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm delighted to read two people above who have partners they met via WoW. Given how much time people play and how social the game is, it'd be sad if the social relationships were constrained to just being in the game. Good for y'all!
can you players, addicts, and recovering addicts describe what it is that makes the game so enjoyable?
Folks above have hit on the reinforcement aspect of this, the sense of more progress just around the corner. But most MMOs do that. What amazes me about WoW is how it is uniquely big, 62% of the market. 11 million people. A lot of that is that Blizzard has just executed very well, the game plays better than most other MMOs. Also WoW is rewarding to a lot of different playstyles. You can be into fighting other players (PvP), doing hardcore raids, doing simple solo questing, playing around with making items and selling them, or just exploring the pretty world. WoW supports all those play styles and players regularly focus on one or switch between them. That's a pretty broad experience.
One other interesting thing about WoW: a lot of women play. I can't quite put my finger on the data, but I think it's 30-50% of WoW players are women. That's really unusual for a non-casual game, and I'd love to read more about why.
posted by Nelson at 8:43 AM on June 20, 2009
can you players, addicts, and recovering addicts describe what it is that makes the game so enjoyable?
Folks above have hit on the reinforcement aspect of this, the sense of more progress just around the corner. But most MMOs do that. What amazes me about WoW is how it is uniquely big, 62% of the market. 11 million people. A lot of that is that Blizzard has just executed very well, the game plays better than most other MMOs. Also WoW is rewarding to a lot of different playstyles. You can be into fighting other players (PvP), doing hardcore raids, doing simple solo questing, playing around with making items and selling them, or just exploring the pretty world. WoW supports all those play styles and players regularly focus on one or switch between them. That's a pretty broad experience.
One other interesting thing about WoW: a lot of women play. I can't quite put my finger on the data, but I think it's 30-50% of WoW players are women. That's really unusual for a non-casual game, and I'd love to read more about why.
posted by Nelson at 8:43 AM on June 20, 2009
I kind of like the ongoing implication that the only reason people play is because it's sinister and addictive; it couldn't possibly be that it's the best-designed MMO on the market, or one of the most polished gaming experiences in the genre, or actually- gasp!- fun. Nah, it must be that WoW players are idiot monkeys hitting the lever for a treat.
It's entirely possible that it's all of those things and, at the same time, for some people (not most, not all), addictive. Just as any wonderful game, experience, drug, or sensation can be.
posted by blucevalo at 9:05 AM on June 20, 2009
It's entirely possible that it's all of those things and, at the same time, for some people (not most, not all), addictive. Just as any wonderful game, experience, drug, or sensation can be.
posted by blucevalo at 9:05 AM on June 20, 2009
I quit so I could get stuff done before Diablo 3 drops.
posted by now i'm piste at 9:22 AM on June 20, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by now i'm piste at 9:22 AM on June 20, 2009 [5 favorites]
I've never played World of Warcraft but I contemplate starting the game other people with more serious depression than I have probably contemplate suicide. Just giving up caring about my career or relationships or anything else and surrendering myself to the skinner box of virtual rewards and faux achievements. I remember I played wizardry 8 or 9 and I was so into it that I called in sick two to work to consecutive days and that game had an ending. I really can't trust myself with stuff like this.
posted by I Foody at 11:28 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by I Foody at 11:28 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
To add to what Telf so very thoroughly explained above:
The game also inspires reinvention. Tired of being a druid? Become a mage! And the game of growth and reward starts all over anew with different spells and different itemization requirements.
The thing that sucks me back in EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. are the talent points. I would sit on wowhead.com all day just playing around with the talent calculators. It's one part math, one part mad scientist: learning the algorithms that make the spells work and then constructing your frankenstein monster from the component parts.
The peer pressure factor can't be expressed enough either. Aside from having in-game friends to pressure you into rescheduling your life in favor of dungeon raids, you will very frequently meet friend IRL (as they say in the biz) who play also. That spark of recognition when you notice that someone else understands your secret world is a powerful, powerful force. I can't tell you how many times I've had a conversation with someone who plays WoW - and it is always the same. We make casual chit chat for a while - especially if someone else is involved in the conversation - but you know that deep down, you'd really rather be talking about the two piece set bonus on the armor you just got, or the Mountain Dew battle bot pet, or how you totally melted Malygos' face the other day when the death knight finally managed to death grip the power sparks into the right place so you got two at once, bringing your starfire crits to 14k!
Eventually, that's where the conversation goes. Always in conspiratorial tones that say, "if anyone overhears us talking about this, we're doomed." Secrets are powerful.
posted by greekphilosophy at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2009 [2 favorites]
The game also inspires reinvention. Tired of being a druid? Become a mage! And the game of growth and reward starts all over anew with different spells and different itemization requirements.
The thing that sucks me back in EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. are the talent points. I would sit on wowhead.com all day just playing around with the talent calculators. It's one part math, one part mad scientist: learning the algorithms that make the spells work and then constructing your frankenstein monster from the component parts.
The peer pressure factor can't be expressed enough either. Aside from having in-game friends to pressure you into rescheduling your life in favor of dungeon raids, you will very frequently meet friend IRL (as they say in the biz) who play also. That spark of recognition when you notice that someone else understands your secret world is a powerful, powerful force. I can't tell you how many times I've had a conversation with someone who plays WoW - and it is always the same. We make casual chit chat for a while - especially if someone else is involved in the conversation - but you know that deep down, you'd really rather be talking about the two piece set bonus on the armor you just got, or the Mountain Dew battle bot pet, or how you totally melted Malygos' face the other day when the death knight finally managed to death grip the power sparks into the right place so you got two at once, bringing your starfire crits to 14k!
Eventually, that's where the conversation goes. Always in conspiratorial tones that say, "if anyone overhears us talking about this, we're doomed." Secrets are powerful.
posted by greekphilosophy at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2009 [2 favorites]
If this takes off, imagine the WoW interventions that would take place by disgruntled girlfriends and spouses of gamers.
posted by moojoose at 4:30 PM on June 20, 2009
posted by moojoose at 4:30 PM on June 20, 2009
This thread needs a trigger warning. Oh to be back in Zangarmarsh, fishing rod in hand, flying mount between my legs... no. No. I can't. Nay, I WON'T, go back.
*fires up the Sims 3*
*taps that vein*
posted by saturnine at 9:46 PM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
*fires up the Sims 3*
*taps that vein*
posted by saturnine at 9:46 PM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
I suppose I should delve into my WoW experience, as this is as good a time as any.
I used to be pretty hardcore into the game, but now I try to keep it to ~20 hours a week. I rapidly build up characters and then bore of them and then sell them via ebay-like services to desiring individuals. In those heady, early WoW days, I got up to $2000 for an account (honestly), but nowadays $800 is the most one can hope for. A lot go for sub 500, but given that I can achieve that value in a month of play, which costs me $13, and entertains me, I'm not complaining.
I do it because it's fun, but I haven't felt the obsession to login for years. It's nice to have a game that also buys me beer, so I keep playing - it's something I do during downtime. I appreciate that the raid game has been calibrated well enough that I can play one or two days a week, complete everything I need to do, and spend the rest of my time doing better things.
posted by mek at 2:30 AM on June 21, 2009
I used to be pretty hardcore into the game, but now I try to keep it to ~20 hours a week. I rapidly build up characters and then bore of them and then sell them via ebay-like services to desiring individuals. In those heady, early WoW days, I got up to $2000 for an account (honestly), but nowadays $800 is the most one can hope for. A lot go for sub 500, but given that I can achieve that value in a month of play, which costs me $13, and entertains me, I'm not complaining.
I do it because it's fun, but I haven't felt the obsession to login for years. It's nice to have a game that also buys me beer, so I keep playing - it's something I do during downtime. I appreciate that the raid game has been calibrated well enough that I can play one or two days a week, complete everything I need to do, and spend the rest of my time doing better things.
posted by mek at 2:30 AM on June 21, 2009
I was going to reply to this when I first read it yesterday, but instead I went and flew above a swamp filled with massive glowing mushrooms, rescued some kids from some gnarly red bird dudes, and tamed a giant two-headed dog with frog skin and green steam pouring off it's back.
posted by chronkite at 6:32 AM on June 21, 2009
posted by chronkite at 6:32 AM on June 21, 2009
MetaFilter:textbook ironic
posted by aldus_manutius at 9:53 AM on June 21, 2009
posted by aldus_manutius at 9:53 AM on June 21, 2009
Four different people have sent me this video of a kid whose mom canceled his WoW account.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2009
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 1:51 PM on June 21, 2009
*taps that vein*
Interesting you should make that comparison. With apologies to marble:
I met my boyfriend [smoking crack]. Two and a half years and still going strong! We've been living together for the past 11 months. I recently lured him back to the [pipe], and our [need for more crack for a shorter high] has been revived after 9-10 months of people [dying / getting arrested]. There's a lot to love about [getting high]. I've been through periods of [smoking] hardly at all, or [using] a different [high]. But I always come back. I think most people do.
posted by waraw at 7:20 PM on June 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
Interesting you should make that comparison. With apologies to marble:
I met my boyfriend [smoking crack]. Two and a half years and still going strong! We've been living together for the past 11 months. I recently lured him back to the [pipe], and our [need for more crack for a shorter high] has been revived after 9-10 months of people [dying / getting arrested]. There's a lot to love about [getting high]. I've been through periods of [smoking] hardly at all, or [using] a different [high]. But I always come back. I think most people do.
posted by waraw at 7:20 PM on June 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
>video of a kid whose mom canceled his WoW account
That was pretty severely disturbing.
posted by Clay201 at 1:39 AM on June 23, 2009
That was pretty severely disturbing.
posted by Clay201 at 1:39 AM on June 23, 2009
That was pretty severely disturbing.
Some parents are just pure shit at what they do.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:29 AM on June 23, 2009
Some parents are just pure shit at what they do.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:29 AM on June 23, 2009
Or, possibly, the kid's just hoaxing it up for the camera.
My own WoW story: I played for about nine months, got pretty deep into it and even celebrated New Year's Eve at the end of 2007 in the city square of Stormwind (Greymane server) with other revelers. (I was the bear dancing on the tables and casting druid buffs on passersby.) I leveled up my Druid to 60 (which was then the terminal level), and found that really the only thing else to do was to:
1. join a guild so I could
2. grind the hell out of some quests so I could
3. get a special key that would allow me to
4. run certain instances, so I could
5. hopefully get phat lootz and
6. upgrade my char from purples to better purples.
Big freaking deal.
The game has always been, as some have described, a glossy front end for otherwise tedious loot tables. There are aspects of the game that I enjoyed playing a lot and the environment is a work of art to behold, in itself. But after a while, I just got tired of the repetitive grind and my playing died off. Then when WotLK came out and the upgrade was more HD space than I had available, it would have required buying a new HD, etc., so that was that. I'm kicking butt playing GemCraft now. Level 56, w00t!
But yeah, there are times I do miss fishing in the Zangarmarsh or using my flight form to scope out the heights or using my aquatic form to plumb the depths of some cool lake. Just not enough to get back into the whole deal.
posted by darkstar at 8:39 PM on June 23, 2009
My own WoW story: I played for about nine months, got pretty deep into it and even celebrated New Year's Eve at the end of 2007 in the city square of Stormwind (Greymane server) with other revelers. (I was the bear dancing on the tables and casting druid buffs on passersby.) I leveled up my Druid to 60 (which was then the terminal level), and found that really the only thing else to do was to:
1. join a guild so I could
2. grind the hell out of some quests so I could
3. get a special key that would allow me to
4. run certain instances, so I could
5. hopefully get phat lootz and
6. upgrade my char from purples to better purples.
Big freaking deal.
The game has always been, as some have described, a glossy front end for otherwise tedious loot tables. There are aspects of the game that I enjoyed playing a lot and the environment is a work of art to behold, in itself. But after a while, I just got tired of the repetitive grind and my playing died off. Then when WotLK came out and the upgrade was more HD space than I had available, it would have required buying a new HD, etc., so that was that. I'm kicking butt playing GemCraft now. Level 56, w00t!
But yeah, there are times I do miss fishing in the Zangarmarsh or using my flight form to scope out the heights or using my aquatic form to plumb the depths of some cool lake. Just not enough to get back into the whole deal.
posted by darkstar at 8:39 PM on June 23, 2009
If you're leaving, can I have your stuff?
posted by marble at 8:28 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by marble at 8:28 AM on July 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by jbickers at 8:03 PM on June 19, 2009 [6 favorites]