June 15, 2001

10:01 PM

Right Livelihood Resources - "How can you design your work life so it is an expression of your gifts and makes a contribution to the world? How can you make your time at work meaningful?" Does your work reflect your values?
posted by sudama (21 comments total)

This kind of scares me. Not that the compiler of the resources had a hidden agenda in mind. But truth be told, I don't think work can be a zen like experience. One in particular was:

Bring Your Soul To Work: An Everyday Practice
by Cheryl Peppers and Alan Briskin, Berrett-Koehler, 2000
How to link your work life to your spiritual life.

Call me a hopless skeptic, but work is what you do to make the money to spend on things you don't need. Anything of real value is free. I might title the page "How to not feel like the ant you are".
posted by Zebulun at 12:06 AM on June 16, 2001

truthfully, I know a few people who love their jobs. people for whom I can't imagine a better livelihood. people who would rather be doing what they're doing than anything else in the world.

for some people there's a good fit like that; for others, work pays the bills so they have time to do what matters to them.

but work should never suck your soul out of you. if it starts to do that, it's time to find something neutral. - rcb
posted by rebeccablood at 12:43 AM on June 16, 2001

Hmmm...

on the one hand, if you have a full-time job you spend more of your waking hours working than doing anything else. Spending them doing something that sucks your soul out of you (as rcb said) is a monumental waste. I'm probably one of the lucky ones since in my life work has mostly been a good and rewarding experience;

on the other hand, many people don't have that many options. For them the problem is getting work and being able to pay the bills.
posted by rjs at 2:11 AM on June 16, 2001

WHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHH!!

Sorry, I can't hear you very well over the noise of the soul-sucking machine in my office.

All these books do is make you go buy more self-help books. I speak from experience, having spent quite a long time feeling bad about not having a career that I love and having read waaaay too many books about it.

Work can be a zen experience if you can look at it from a real Zen perspective -- stop struggling and seeking for some perfect thing that only exists in your mind, approach what you do in a mindful way, accept the limitations of the job as well as your own limitations, and let that guide you to a better understanding of who you are. Chasing after some mythical Dream Job is about as un-Zen as you can get.
posted by briank at 5:13 AM on June 16, 2001

zen is finding vending machines welded to the roof of the place you work. Zen is when the boys will get a cherry picker so you can re-fill their vending machine. zen is being a part of the whole.(and my nephews name) I think a rational person should be allowed one self-help book a year, anymore and your just plain doomed and virtually clueless.
posted by clavdivs at 7:39 AM on June 16, 2001

Despite what some seem to think, that link wasn't to a list of self-help books. It looks like I'm about to take a contract doing HTML for the government because it's the path of least resistance at the moment, but I like to think about someday getting paid to do community organizing, or starting a non-profit organization or my own consulting business -- the link is to a list of (some books and mostly) organizations useful for those who are not just on a job search but who are integrating their work into their lives so that it's not a burden, not a contradiction of themselves, not a place they hate to go each morning.

I agree it's important to recognize that many, probably the great majority of people don't have the luxury of taking this kind of control of their lives. Those of us who do shouldn't take it lightly or dismiss it as "too hard".
posted by sudama at 8:37 AM on June 16, 2001

Despite what some seem to think, that link wasn't to a list of self-help books

Funny, I've read almost every one of the books listed on that page, and they all sure seemed like self-help books to me (not to mention the bookstores where I bought them).

Sudama, you seem to think you somehow have a monopoly on the notion of trying to make your worklife more meaningful. These books (and a couple of other books I could mention) took me through a long journey of thinking about the meaning of work and the meaning of life, and all of that. In the end, when I stopped gazing into my own navel, I realized that a lot of the self-actualization literature is actually rather self-destructive.

If you want to go work for some socially-beneficial organization, go do it. Remember that people get job burnout doing those jobs too.
posted by briank at 8:54 AM on June 16, 2001

This is a great list--thanks, Adam. I'm not sure why people are complaining about "self-help" books, as if everything that encourages people to exert some control over their lives is some kind of scam. Are the only options really only (a) being a cog, or (b) "Chasing after some mythical Dream Job"? How about exploring ways to improve your inner life on the job? The key word, it seems to me, is "mindfulness."
posted by rodii at 8:56 AM on June 16, 2001

I've read almost every one of the books listed on that page

Fascinating. You've read Carfree Cities and How to Organize a Baby-sitting Cooperative and The Late Bloomers Guide to Success at Any Age and Making a Difference: Scholarships for a Better World? I salute the breadth of your interests. On the other hand, most of the links on that page aren't to books, but to periodicals, websites and organizations, so maybe this isn't as weighty a claim as it seems.

you seem to think you somehow have a monopoly on the notion of trying to make your worklife more meaningful

I'm not sure where you're getting that from. On the other hand, you seem to feel that your personal experience should be a touchstone for everyone else. I'm sure sure why I should buy into that either.
posted by rodii at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2001

briank what I'm trying to say is that there are about six books on that page and several dozen links to websites and organizations.

I don't think I know the first thing about making work life meaningful, but I suspect it involves more than emailing out some resumes and tucking in your shirt which is more than I've been able to muster in my search so far.

I don't want to get in to an argument. I'd like to hear more about your experience.
posted by sudama at 9:07 AM on June 16, 2001

My experience: It took getting fired from a job where I was making a pretty decent amount of money for me to admit that I hated my career -- it wasn't that particular job that was the problem, it was more like a symptom. And I didn't want to lose the income.

So I had a chance to ask myself, "What do I want to do?" rather than continuing to stumble up the ladder of apparent success in a career that I stumbled into (I guess that's the part about mindfulness -- not so much stumbling involved).

The money thing worked out while I started exploring options. I atually read one self-help book about halfway through and went to a career counselor, who helped me clarify my thinking quite a bit.

So now I'm in what amounts to a skilled entry-level job in my new chosen field and I find that at least some of what I hated in my old job has followed me. Those are my own habits of thought and ways of reacting to other people.

We make our own heaven and hell in many ways -- earning a living for myself and the whole constellation of feelings I have about that are part of much bigger patterns in my life. The whole process I've gone through since losing my job a year ago has been quite painful and quite rewarding, often for the same reson -- I've learned again and again that I am not the person I thought I was, neither as good nor as bad.

Is that ObiWannish enough?
posted by elgoose at 10:01 AM on June 16, 2001

I waited tables for years, working short hours so I could paint. But the fact was, the work was mind and soul numbing, and rather than leaving me energy so i could paint, it sucked it. When I got into the web, I was so energized, I 'd go home and study to learn more... a cycle that hasn't stopped in 4 years. I still go home and surf, or read a book on inerface design or psych. Some people say I'm a workaholic, but I'm not driven by fear and guilt like they are-- I'm driven by discovery and excitement.

One thing that I think *should* change is American vacation alotments. I do work hard, and I like to take off completely to rejuvinate. That means a month traveling in Europe, or a couple of weeks in mexico. two weeks vacation a year is a crime. Europeans start up with 5 weeks, which sounds crazy until you think of what you need in your year.. three weeks in late summer, a week at christmas/solstice/etc, and several odd three day-four day weekends as needed, or a week in spring when the cabin-fever sets in.

I mean think about it... if you've got only two weeks, you have to choose to spend it with family, which can make you more tired than before your vacation, or you can skip family and then the guilt machine turns on. more vacation means you could tend to your life.
posted by christina at 10:44 AM on June 16, 2001

I don't want to get in to an argument. I'd like to hear more about your experience.

Neither do I, Adam, so maybe rodii can back the fuck off.
posted by briank at 11:50 AM on June 16, 2001

rodii -- I have read every book in the "Right Livelihood" section of that list. So just back off.
posted by briank at 11:53 AM on June 16, 2001

Flow : The Psychology of Optimal Experience, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. I highly recommend it. here's an excerpt.

you know, I loved waiting tables, until it was time to stop. - rcb
posted by rebeccablood at 1:26 PM on June 16, 2001

Neither do I, Adam, so maybe rodii can back the fuck off.
. . .
rodii -- I have read every book in the "Right Livelihood" section of that list. So just back off.

What I hear you saying is that you want me to back off. :)

I'm not sure what you're flipping out about here. Did you think I was trying to embarrass you somehow? I wasn't.

You mean that first section, "design a livelihood"? Some of those look very interesting to me, particularly Mindfulness and Meaningful Work. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about it.

But why get on Adam's case for offering the list (with the "monopoly" crack)? And why should all of us dislike the whole list based on your experience with some part of it? This thread appears to have pushed one of your buttons, but not all of us have that particular button. Chill.
posted by rodii at 1:36 PM on June 16, 2001

I was going to mention Flow too, Rebecca. A useful way to think about work (and a lot of other things).
posted by rodii at 1:42 PM on June 16, 2001

Nice link. I still think fondly of the time I spent as a construction laborer the Summer after my freshman year at University (10 years ago). We were building a park. There was a positive je ne sais quois about working outside in the Texas heat to build something tangible.

I was lean, muscular, young and tanned. I came home dirty and tired at the end of every workday, but I was satisfied in a way I haven't been in any job since.

Now, I sit in front of a computer all day long. Am so unmotivated by work that I rarely show up on time (rylanddotnet can attest to that from experience).

Last year I was laid off / fired / canned from a little dot com in Austin. 3 days later I was on a plane to Berlin. Right now I am sitting in my office at the Vienna, Austria facility of one of the top 5 international advertising agencies.

Big change, and I can't complain over all. But even though I love Vienna, I still hate work. I really have to find something different to do with my life.
posted by syzygy at 11:55 AM on June 17, 2001

My apologies for being rude yesterday.

New baby = no sleep = short fuse
posted by briank at 2:28 PM on June 17, 2001

No problem--snarkiness inadvertent on my part. New-baby-madness excuses practically anything.
posted by rodii at 2:58 PM on June 17, 2001

A wonderful book on applying Buddhist principles to work is Mastering Successful Work by Tarthang Tulku. The very phrase right livelihood comes from the Buddha Shakyamuni's noble eightfold path. My point being that, of course work can be "zen-like" or enlightened activity, even if you don't like it, apparently.
posted by mblandi at 7:05 AM on June 18, 2001