New World Order
August 16, 2009 1:10 AM Subscribe
Um. Very appropriate use of the Batshit Insane tag. Because I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck that was.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 1:23 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by SkylitDrawl at 1:23 AM on August 16, 2009
Just dance?
posted by clearly at 1:24 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by clearly at 1:24 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
...I mean, a site with Transformers 2: NWO Agenda and Occult Symbols has got to be parody, right? Except it doesn't seem to be.
I think the thing that's freaking me out is seeing this stuff expressed in relatively tidy, well styled HTML. That's just not right!
posted by Artw at 1:30 AM on August 16, 2009 [12 favorites]
I think the thing that's freaking me out is seeing this stuff expressed in relatively tidy, well styled HTML. That's just not right!
posted by Artw at 1:30 AM on August 16, 2009 [12 favorites]
I can't believe I'm linking this on Metafilter, but.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 1:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by SkylitDrawl at 1:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
Some earlier crazy: Beyonce to Sasha Fierce: Symolic Occult Rebirth
posted by PenDevil at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by PenDevil at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2009
Um. Very appropriate use of the Batshit Insane tag.
Yes, good work. It makes things so much easier to look up when I get into that inevitable, "But did you see this?" conversation. Lady Gaga has been popping up on the web a lot lately. Oddly, the article doesn't make as much as I thought it would of this apparent controversy.
posted by Avelwood at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2009
Yes, good work. It makes things so much easier to look up when I get into that inevitable, "But did you see this?" conversation. Lady Gaga has been popping up on the web a lot lately. Oddly, the article doesn't make as much as I thought it would of this apparent controversy.
posted by Avelwood at 1:40 AM on August 16, 2009
This is awesome.
As a dabbler in occultism, this is actually a fairly compelling case. The image he compares to Baphomet immediately struck a very deep chord with me. The symbolism there is jump-out-the-page obvious to any student of occultism.
I don't really think she's an Illuminati puppet since I don't have a strong belief that the Illuminati, as an actual organized group, exist. I'm more likely to believe that she's ∴ ∴ or Golden Dawn or something.
And besides, it's fun to find these symbols in pop culture. Yes, yes, you have to go looking. But that's the fun of it. It's all very post-modern.
posted by Netzapper at 1:44 AM on August 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
As a dabbler in occultism, this is actually a fairly compelling case. The image he compares to Baphomet immediately struck a very deep chord with me. The symbolism there is jump-out-the-page obvious to any student of occultism.
I don't really think she's an Illuminati puppet since I don't have a strong belief that the Illuminati, as an actual organized group, exist. I'm more likely to believe that she's ∴ ∴ or Golden Dawn or something.
And besides, it's fun to find these symbols in pop culture. Yes, yes, you have to go looking. But that's the fun of it. It's all very post-modern.
posted by Netzapper at 1:44 AM on August 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
Vigilant Citizen spent more time on this crazy theory than Lady Gaga spent on her entire oeuvre.
posted by Spacelegoman at 1:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Spacelegoman at 1:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
Also, I totally thought Lady Gaga was a tranny. From the moment I first saw her, until my sister told me that she wasn't (months later), I just assumed she was a male-to-female transsexual. Whole time, I was like, "Well that's cool. Means people will finally take a notice of transgender folks." I totally hope she has a penis. And if it turns out she has a vagina too, she's getting promoted to my number one fantasy fuck. As a bi dude, having both my favorite toys in one package is the holy grail.
posted by Netzapper at 1:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
posted by Netzapper at 1:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
What do you mean by Illuminati? The term “Illuminati” refers to the small group of elite people who meet through instances such as the Bilderberg group, the CFR and the United Nations to create international policies which shape the economic, political and religious landscape of the world.
Ha,
My grandfather was involved in organizing a number of Bilderberg conferences, and I never had any idea how hugely Bilderberg featured in the minds of conspiracy nuts. Growing up, it was just one group of slightly policy wonky old white guys that grandad knew (one among many).
When I was an undergraduate a guy in the student union bar starts talking about that year's Bilderberg conference. Imagine my surprise! So I said "wow, what are the odds. My grandfather and his friends do that." This guy's eyes just about pop out of his skull and he goes off on some demented rant.
I was very confused until I got home and Googled to find that this kind of stuff is part of a whole ecosystem of Illuminatus conspiracies.
posted by atrazine at 1:58 AM on August 16, 2009 [34 favorites]
Ha,
My grandfather was involved in organizing a number of Bilderberg conferences, and I never had any idea how hugely Bilderberg featured in the minds of conspiracy nuts. Growing up, it was just one group of slightly policy wonky old white guys that grandad knew (one among many).
When I was an undergraduate a guy in the student union bar starts talking about that year's Bilderberg conference. Imagine my surprise! So I said "wow, what are the odds. My grandfather and his friends do that." This guy's eyes just about pop out of his skull and he goes off on some demented rant.
I was very confused until I got home and Googled to find that this kind of stuff is part of a whole ecosystem of Illuminatus conspiracies.
posted by atrazine at 1:58 AM on August 16, 2009 [34 favorites]
Well, duh.
posted by bardic at 2:17 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by bardic at 2:17 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is truly amazing im shocked. I believe god told me to check this site. I feel like a total fool I wad becoming a fan of hers. Im totally conviced that this is what she’s trying to convey. I think that her total image isn’t her fault though. We as people have to keep in mind that these stars are handled and most of them are somewhat stupid. Im not surprised though because her cd is tittled the FAME!! I cannot look at her in the same way. Im finished with her and her music.
HANG ON A MINUTE!
Just checked out the lyrics to Poker Face, the pre-chorus goes:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh,
I'll get him hot, show him what I got,
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh,
I'll get him hot, show him what I got
NOW - as I was reading these lyrics (obviously some illuminati/satanic symbolism - the "hot" bit obviously - you'll have to bare with me here I am new at this symbolism thing), I could literally feel the reptiles caliing to me:
"caterpillar, caterpillar come to us, Davis Icke's' here and he wants a chat. p.s. so's big L Ron, and he also wants a chat." I almost shat myself.
Never listening to her stuff again!!!!!1!!!1!!
posted by the_very_hungry_caterpillar at 2:18 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
HANG ON A MINUTE!
Just checked out the lyrics to Poker Face, the pre-chorus goes:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh,
I'll get him hot, show him what I got,
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh,
I'll get him hot, show him what I got
NOW - as I was reading these lyrics (obviously some illuminati/satanic symbolism - the "hot" bit obviously - you'll have to bare with me here I am new at this symbolism thing), I could literally feel the reptiles caliing to me:
"caterpillar, caterpillar come to us, Davis Icke's' here and he wants a chat. p.s. so's big L Ron, and he also wants a chat." I almost shat myself.
Never listening to her stuff again!!!!!1!!!1!!
posted by the_very_hungry_caterpillar at 2:18 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
I see no indication that Lady Gaga is particularly gay herself, but she credits her success to her gay fans, and the gay marketing company FlyLife. I'm sure this deeply irks all the nut job Christians who imagine some gay & Jewish "New World Order", which is exactly the genesis for this article. You'll notice vigilantcitizen.com is a thinly veiled right wing Christian, which even describes the Georgia guide stones as sinister.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:19 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 2:19 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Rosicrucian, for shizz. I also suspect she's a hyper-intelligent lizard, but then, these days, who in the top 40 isn't?
posted by smoke at 2:26 AM on August 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by smoke at 2:26 AM on August 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
FWIW, my friend michael made the crutches in the 'papparazzi' video (as well as the outfit on the cover of 'rolling stone')...its hard to tell from the youtube video, but they're completely covered in rhinestones. Also, he made them while sitting naked in a pentagram, and the glue he used was made from the blood of christian babies.
posted by sexyrobot at 2:32 AM on August 16, 2009 [11 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 2:32 AM on August 16, 2009 [11 favorites]
Then the Illuminati-controlled Mind Puppet masquerading as an transvestite alien lizard-being turns to the bartender and says "And at these prices, you probably won't be getting many more."
posted by zaelic at 2:32 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by zaelic at 2:32 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, I totally thought Lady Gaga was a tranny. From the moment I first saw her, until my sister told me that she wasn't (months later), I just assumed she was a male-to-female transsexual. Whole time, I was like, "Well that's cool. Means people will finally take a notice of transgender folks." I totally hope she has a penis. And if it turns out she has a vagina too, she's getting promoted to my number one fantasy fuck. As a bi dude, having both my favorite toys in one package is the holy grail.
Yeh, that's all I had ever heard about her too, though I've been told it's totally not true. I've never heard any of her songs, or even seen many pictures of her, so that rumor is the only thing which comes into my head when I hear her name. I hope she is actually intersex or something, cause then she would be such an icon. The way she presents herself is amazing, really interesting even if it's just a ploy to get attention.
posted by Sova at 2:39 AM on August 16, 2009
Yeh, that's all I had ever heard about her too, though I've been told it's totally not true. I've never heard any of her songs, or even seen many pictures of her, so that rumor is the only thing which comes into my head when I hear her name. I hope she is actually intersex or something, cause then she would be such an icon. The way she presents herself is amazing, really interesting even if it's just a ploy to get attention.
posted by Sova at 2:39 AM on August 16, 2009
Hang on, I didn't know there are crazy people on the Internet? When on earth did this happen?
posted by chorltonmeateater at 2:53 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by chorltonmeateater at 2:53 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
I've never heard any of her songs, or even seen many pictures of her
If I remember correctly, this one is the recommended "if you're only going to listen to one thing she's done" video. At least it indicates that there might be a bit more than just swedish song-writers/video directors, clever producers, and autotune behind her success.
posted by effbot at 2:57 AM on August 16, 2009 [12 favorites]
If I remember correctly, this one is the recommended "if you're only going to listen to one thing she's done" video. At least it indicates that there might be a bit more than just swedish song-writers/video directors, clever producers, and autotune behind her success.
posted by effbot at 2:57 AM on August 16, 2009 [12 favorites]
No, no, caterpillar, you've clearly misinterpreted that chorus. And L Ron? He's not Illuminati. He's just some fucknut.
Here's my analysis of the chorus:
First, you'll notice that the nonsensical portions, which consist purely of syllables follow strict occult numbers. There are two groups of 5 oh's per nonsense line. Furthermore, the groups "oh-oh-e-oh-oh" are important: that's 00e00, or, if we replace e with the 5 (it's the fifth letter), we get 00500. There's that five again... and in the middle of five glyphs.
Also, if we interpret the Oh's as o instead of zero, we get (15 + 15 + 5 + 15 + 15). This adds up to the value 65. Which is the value of אדני, ("Adonai", or what is usually translated as "My Lord" or "Lord" in English biblical translations). So, the "him" she's getting hot is God.
Sexual congress with God or the lord of creation is a consistent theme in occult texts. Indeed, it could even be as simple as a reference to the magician. What we're probably looking at here is sex magick.
On the other hand, if we admit the h's, our new value is 97. This has a couple of interesting values: אמונ ("builder"), which is clearly a reference to both Hiram Abif and to the Magician; it also has the value טפח, meaning "to stretch" or "to spread", which is certainly what she'll be doing later; there's also the meaning יפוא, which is apparently the proper noun for "Beauty", which is her apparent goal.
There's really no doubt that the chorus is pretty deep into sex magic and hermetic ritual. And you're bringing up that dullard Hubbard?
You'll notice vigilantcitizen.com is a thinly veiled right wing Christian, which even describes the Georgia guide stones as sinister.
Wait, so, you don't think something requesting the extinction of, at the time, 3/4 of the world's population is a bit sinister?
And he does have a point about R.C. Christian being a clear Rosicrucian reference.
posted by Netzapper at 2:58 AM on August 16, 2009 [18 favorites]
Here's my analysis of the chorus:
First, you'll notice that the nonsensical portions, which consist purely of syllables follow strict occult numbers. There are two groups of 5 oh's per nonsense line. Furthermore, the groups "oh-oh-e-oh-oh" are important: that's 00e00, or, if we replace e with the 5 (it's the fifth letter), we get 00500. There's that five again... and in the middle of five glyphs.
Also, if we interpret the Oh's as o instead of zero, we get (15 + 15 + 5 + 15 + 15). This adds up to the value 65. Which is the value of אדני, ("Adonai", or what is usually translated as "My Lord" or "Lord" in English biblical translations). So, the "him" she's getting hot is God.
Sexual congress with God or the lord of creation is a consistent theme in occult texts. Indeed, it could even be as simple as a reference to the magician. What we're probably looking at here is sex magick.
On the other hand, if we admit the h's, our new value is 97. This has a couple of interesting values: אמונ ("builder"), which is clearly a reference to both Hiram Abif and to the Magician; it also has the value טפח, meaning "to stretch" or "to spread", which is certainly what she'll be doing later; there's also the meaning יפוא, which is apparently the proper noun for "Beauty", which is her apparent goal.
There's really no doubt that the chorus is pretty deep into sex magic and hermetic ritual. And you're bringing up that dullard Hubbard?
You'll notice vigilantcitizen.com is a thinly veiled right wing Christian, which even describes the Georgia guide stones as sinister.
Wait, so, you don't think something requesting the extinction of, at the time, 3/4 of the world's population is a bit sinister?
And he does have a point about R.C. Christian being a clear Rosicrucian reference.
posted by Netzapper at 2:58 AM on August 16, 2009 [18 favorites]
And he does have a point about R.C. Christian being a clear Rosicrucian reference.
That's not exactly his point, though - that's standard OMG NWO stuff, just like the "it's about exterminating people!!1!11I!" instead of "well-meaning instructions for the survivors" angle. Sourced from the Alex Jones universe, most likely.
posted by effbot at 3:31 AM on August 16, 2009
That's not exactly his point, though - that's standard OMG NWO stuff, just like the "it's about exterminating people!!1!11I!" instead of "well-meaning instructions for the survivors" angle. Sourced from the Alex Jones universe, most likely.
posted by effbot at 3:31 AM on August 16, 2009
I can't believe nobody has mentioned the hermetic symbolism of the hermaphrodite, the goal of the medieval alchemists to combine the male and the female in one body. Of course a true toy of the Illuminati would have both a cock and a cunt.
posted by idiopath at 3:40 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 3:40 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
you know who said it...
posted by krautland at 3:57 AM on August 16, 2009
you know who said it...
posted by krautland at 3:57 AM on August 16, 2009
Wow, when I start my "Which nutjob conspiracy theory am I dealing with here?" SMS service where people send in text messages about their daily lives and get elaborate answers about how their boss/cat/electric wok/whatever is a tool of the Illuminati, all of you here will be instantly hired.
It'll be sort of like "Will it blend?" meets KGB or ChaCha, but geared for the Art Bell crowd.
posted by Avelwood at 4:04 AM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
It'll be sort of like "Will it blend?" meets KGB or ChaCha, but geared for the Art Bell crowd.
posted by Avelwood at 4:04 AM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
At least it indicates that there might be a bit more than just swedish song-writers/video directors, clever producers, and autotune behind her success.
Yeah... a secret penis.
here's another live acoustic version of that song. She actually got into the music industry as a songwriter.
This video as even more piano virtuoso stuff. She's really good.
posted by delmoi at 4:11 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
Yeah... a secret penis.
here's another live acoustic version of that song. She actually got into the music industry as a songwriter.
This video as even more piano virtuoso stuff. She's really good.
posted by delmoi at 4:11 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
Wow, when I start my "Which nutjob conspiracy theory am I dealing with here?" SMS service where people send in text messages about their daily lives and get elaborate answers about how their boss/cat/electric wok/whatever is a tool of the Illuminati, all of you here will be instantly hired.
It'll be sort of like "Will it blend?" meets KGB or ChaCha, but geared for the Art Bell crowd.
Funny you should mention that. I'm in the process of building an automated gemetria engine (the thing I was doing with the Hebrew above). And, since it's a project to learn Django, it might wind up on the web. Maybe I'll do an SMS module.
posted by Netzapper at 4:21 AM on August 16, 2009
It'll be sort of like "Will it blend?" meets KGB or ChaCha, but geared for the Art Bell crowd.
Funny you should mention that. I'm in the process of building an automated gemetria engine (the thing I was doing with the Hebrew above). And, since it's a project to learn Django, it might wind up on the web. Maybe I'll do an SMS module.
posted by Netzapper at 4:21 AM on August 16, 2009
And to think that I thought she was just another Catholic school refugee gone bad. . . .
posted by rdone at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by rdone at 4:39 AM on August 16, 2009
Sorry everyone, she's not gay, not a hermaphrodite, no penis there. I'm tight with her ex (they were together for about 3 years, just parting company a couple of months ago), and she's all woman according to him. So unless she had one added on in the past few months...
She's also not stupid, she's young, and has been handed a whole lot of excess everything and yes men and permission to do anything she wants, with everyone around her telling her how great it is.
She is just a normal young chick who was hanging out in the bars on the LES when she met the right people (jay-z or some other R&B mega guy, I don't listen to that type of music so can't remember who's who) to catapult her into the brain fuck existence she's in the midst of now.
She rose fast and shes gonna come down hard when the novelty wears off, no doubt.
posted by newpotato at 4:41 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
She's also not stupid, she's young, and has been handed a whole lot of excess everything and yes men and permission to do anything she wants, with everyone around her telling her how great it is.
She is just a normal young chick who was hanging out in the bars on the LES when she met the right people (jay-z or some other R&B mega guy, I don't listen to that type of music so can't remember who's who) to catapult her into the brain fuck existence she's in the midst of now.
She rose fast and shes gonna come down hard when the novelty wears off, no doubt.
posted by newpotato at 4:41 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
Sadly, my Lady Gaga hate has been steadily fading as I watched more of her acoustic work over the last month or two. As long as I don't actually look at her outfits (which are ridiculous) I can barely even muster up a spark of annoyance. I'm actually approaching ambivalence.
posted by Justinian at 4:42 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:42 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
It seems overly simplistic to imagine the Georgia guide stone messages were meant to be implemented quickly : they built the monument to last forever, even surviving nuclear war, and none scream "do it now".
India & China were implementing strong family planning measures around the time the guide stones were commissioned, so there was much hope. Of course, Indra Gandi's psychopath son destroyed that movement within India through forced vasectomies, but there was hope for India earlier. I imagine the guide stone's message #2 proposing universal genetic counseling would further slow the population growth. You might also imagine emigration into space, non-biological siblings via communal families, nuclear war, etc., especially in the late 1970s.
But all this talk about birth control is extremely sinister exactly if you're a right-wing Christian.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:43 AM on August 16, 2009
India & China were implementing strong family planning measures around the time the guide stones were commissioned, so there was much hope. Of course, Indra Gandi's psychopath son destroyed that movement within India through forced vasectomies, but there was hope for India earlier. I imagine the guide stone's message #2 proposing universal genetic counseling would further slow the population growth. You might also imagine emigration into space, non-biological siblings via communal families, nuclear war, etc., especially in the late 1970s.
But all this talk about birth control is extremely sinister exactly if you're a right-wing Christian.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:43 AM on August 16, 2009
I don't get it -- right wing Christians already have an evangelical religion; why do they need conspiracy theories too?
posted by cthuljew at 4:50 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by cthuljew at 4:50 AM on August 16, 2009
cthuljew: I am not so sure, but I have a suspicion that the two are strongly related.
But as a baby eating Christ Killer and an Old One, you should know all about this already.
posted by idiopath at 5:38 AM on August 16, 2009
But as a baby eating Christ Killer and an Old One, you should know all about this already.
posted by idiopath at 5:38 AM on August 16, 2009
I heard Poker Face for the first time just last week and the first thought that sprang to mind was "Only a reptilian Satanic puppet of dark, subterranean forces would allow herself to be known as this song's singer".
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:03 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:03 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Really good satire never winks.
Them: Adventures with Extremists is also a really good book that people might have forgotten about since it has been a few years.
posted by prak at 6:14 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Them: Adventures with Extremists is also a really good book that people might have forgotten about since it has been a few years.
posted by prak at 6:14 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Them: Adventures with Extremists is also a really good book
The reviews are a bit disappointing, though; of the 1-star reviews, only one poster argues that the author doesn't get it:
"Jon Ronson [...] really has no evidence that they're wrong in their theories. He tries to get us to see the ridiculosness of David Ickes lizard theory when in reality, David Icke has the most comprehensive and on the mark evidence of the world leader's to date. Jon Ronson like's to make himself look good and make himself look like the most intelligent in each situation, when he really is the ignorant one."
On the other hand, 15 of 45 people found that review helpful.
posted by effbot at 6:30 AM on August 16, 2009
The reviews are a bit disappointing, though; of the 1-star reviews, only one poster argues that the author doesn't get it:
"Jon Ronson [...] really has no evidence that they're wrong in their theories. He tries to get us to see the ridiculosness of David Ickes lizard theory when in reality, David Icke has the most comprehensive and on the mark evidence of the world leader's to date. Jon Ronson like's to make himself look good and make himself look like the most intelligent in each situation, when he really is the ignorant one."
On the other hand, 15 of 45 people found that review helpful.
posted by effbot at 6:30 AM on August 16, 2009
I was very confused until I got home and Googled to find that this kind of stuff is part of a whole ecosystem of Illuminatus conspiracies.This is why I love Metafilter so much. "What? Illuminati? Yeah, my uncle's in that."
posted by verb at 6:32 AM on August 16, 2009 [25 favorites]
Being someone deeply immersed in weird stuff, I gotta say, that article is a...
Shit Sandwich.
posted by dbiedny at 6:33 AM on August 16, 2009
Shit Sandwich.
posted by dbiedny at 6:33 AM on August 16, 2009
I gotta say, the Ads by Google on that page were the most frightening part.
posted by kittyprecious at 6:39 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by kittyprecious at 6:39 AM on August 16, 2009
As a dabbler in occultism, this is actually a fairly compelling case...
Your qualifier pretty much negated the rest of your argument.
posted by rumsey monument at 6:45 AM on August 16, 2009
Your qualifier pretty much negated the rest of your argument.
posted by rumsey monument at 6:45 AM on August 16, 2009
Dude, I said it in the last post.
Mind Control. "Monarch" programing. Unkind rumors about transgenderism...
Lady Gaga is Dr. Girlfriend.
posted by The Whelk at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2009 [17 favorites]
Mind Control. "Monarch" programing. Unkind rumors about transgenderism...
Lady Gaga is Dr. Girlfriend.
posted by The Whelk at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2009 [17 favorites]
At some point I realized that the Bilderberg plots the kooks talk about represent all the progressive and positive values I endorse. Environmental concerns, population control, secularism, socialism, world government? All for it.
The Bilderberg meetings are like the real UN where real issues get talked about by people who have real power and influence. And that's a good thing. There are intelligent adult human beings gathering to talk about and resolve global issues. I like that.
If they ever meet in my town, I'm going to show up as an anti-protester with "Hooray for Bilderberg, you are my heroes" signs and T-shirts, along with whoever will join me.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Bilderberg meetings are like the real UN where real issues get talked about by people who have real power and influence. And that's a good thing. There are intelligent adult human beings gathering to talk about and resolve global issues. I like that.
If they ever meet in my town, I'm going to show up as an anti-protester with "Hooray for Bilderberg, you are my heroes" signs and T-shirts, along with whoever will join me.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'll probably still get pepper sprayed, but whatevs
posted by fleetmouse at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by fleetmouse at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Lady Gaga: Illuminati mind control puppet
This must mean she's planning an upcoming show at the Denver Airport. I heard those Alien/Human Hybrids in the underground holding pens just love Lady Gaga. This, of course, is the source of those 'Lady Gaga is a hermaphrodite' rumors... as always, the truth is FAR MORE SINISTER!!1!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009
This must mean she's planning an upcoming show at the Denver Airport. I heard those Alien/Human Hybrids in the underground holding pens just love Lady Gaga. This, of course, is the source of those 'Lady Gaga is a hermaphrodite' rumors... as always, the truth is FAR MORE SINISTER!!1!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 6:48 AM on August 16, 2009
As a dabbler in occultism, this is actually a fairly compelling case. The image he compares to Baphomet immediately struck a very deep chord with me. The symbolism there is jump-out-the-page obvious to any student of occultism.
Alan Moore mentions in his end notes to From Hell that the real danger in all these conspiracy thoeries and occultism is being drawn into a web of fiction. After a while, it can be *too* easy to go from "Well, that kinda fits together" to "Well that makes sense" to "THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!". If you're the kind of person who builds worlds and stories, then seeing the connecting lines *everywhere* is very seductive, you can easily become lost in your fiction. Add to that the conviction that you're actually right and well, it's a pretty potent mix.
Which is why he decided to worship a sock puppet, to dabble in Occultism without going totally mad, cause seriously, who could end up believing the sock puppet?
posted by The Whelk at 6:52 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
Alan Moore mentions in his end notes to From Hell that the real danger in all these conspiracy thoeries and occultism is being drawn into a web of fiction. After a while, it can be *too* easy to go from "Well, that kinda fits together" to "Well that makes sense" to "THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!". If you're the kind of person who builds worlds and stories, then seeing the connecting lines *everywhere* is very seductive, you can easily become lost in your fiction. Add to that the conviction that you're actually right and well, it's a pretty potent mix.
Which is why he decided to worship a sock puppet, to dabble in Occultism without going totally mad, cause seriously, who could end up believing the sock puppet?
posted by The Whelk at 6:52 AM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
. As long as I don't actually look at her outfits (which are ridiculous) I can barely even muster up a spark of annoyance. I'm actually approaching ambivalence.
We are such opposites. I'm pretty blah on her music but the outfits! Crazy stupid insane outfits! I'm a Rococo-Disco-Ball-Fairy-Princess-From-Hell! Weeee! I just like the pictures.
posted by The Whelk at 6:55 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
We are such opposites. I'm pretty blah on her music but the outfits! Crazy stupid insane outfits! I'm a Rococo-Disco-Ball-Fairy-Princess-From-Hell! Weeee! I just like the pictures.
posted by The Whelk at 6:55 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
So is Captain Marvel a Nazi too? Because that would change everything!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:22 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:22 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
excellent TWOFER!
Inane thoughtless pop product and inane think-way-too-much CRAZY all in one article.
posted by hooptycritter at 7:39 AM on August 16, 2009
Inane thoughtless pop product and inane think-way-too-much CRAZY all in one article.
posted by hooptycritter at 7:39 AM on August 16, 2009
And besides, it's fun to find these symbols in pop culture. Yes, yes, you have to go looking. But that's the fun of it. It's all very post-modern.
Exactly. Analyzing Transformers 2 from a conspiricoid nutbar angle is no less valid than analyzing Buffy the Vampire Slayer from a post-colonial Stalinist-feminist anti-patriarchal (or whatever floats your boat) angle, so why not level the playing field? Power to the nutjobs, they seem to be taking over too.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2009
Exactly. Analyzing Transformers 2 from a conspiricoid nutbar angle is no less valid than analyzing Buffy the Vampire Slayer from a post-colonial Stalinist-feminist anti-patriarchal (or whatever floats your boat) angle, so why not level the playing field? Power to the nutjobs, they seem to be taking over too.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 7:41 AM on August 16, 2009
“Gaga” is probably the easiest word to say in the English language, as it is often the first sound emitted by babies trying to imitate speech.
This—a ridiculous assertion that glottal stops are somehow easier to manage than simple bilabial plosives—casts a questionable tint on what is otherwise a profoundly careful and responsible bit of analysis.
posted by cortex at 8:04 AM on August 16, 2009 [25 favorites]
This—a ridiculous assertion that glottal stops are somehow easier to manage than simple bilabial plosives—casts a questionable tint on what is otherwise a profoundly careful and responsible bit of analysis.
posted by cortex at 8:04 AM on August 16, 2009 [25 favorites]
NetZapper, you've just provided me enough amusement to make this whole weekend worthwhile. In repayment, I'm going to work on growing a vagina to make that dream of yours come true.
Thanks, Artw, for starting my Sunday off right. Makes me want to walk around the corner to the Masonic Temple and start singing Poker Face at elevated volumes.
posted by greekphilosophy at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2009
Thanks, Artw, for starting my Sunday off right. Makes me want to walk around the corner to the Masonic Temple and start singing Poker Face at elevated volumes.
posted by greekphilosophy at 8:19 AM on August 16, 2009
Ugh this is so stupid. Everyone knows that the Illuminati completed their MK Ultra mind control tests via DEPT OF DEFENSE after reaching objective through GRATEFUL DEAD's supposed 5/8/77 Barton Hall, Cornell, performance, a performance that never existed but was created by DISNEY, MICROSOFT, and the willing support of JERRY GARCIA and Betty Cantor and her BETTY BOARDS.
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 8:26 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 8:26 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
So before I seek out her videos on Youtube can anyone tell me if she's a real singer or does she have another one of those auto-tune voices?
Cause I'm sick of that shit.
posted by Bonzai at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2009
Cause I'm sick of that shit.
posted by Bonzai at 8:31 AM on August 16, 2009
DON'T BELIEVE HIS LIES
THAT WEBSITE IS IN "UNICODE"
THE ILLUMNIATI'S SINGLE GLOBAL TEXT ENCODING
IF THEY CAN CONTORL OUR COMMUNICATION
THEY CAN CONTORL OUR THOUHGTS
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [8 favorites]
THAT WEBSITE IS IN "UNICODE"
THE ILLUMNIATI'S SINGLE GLOBAL TEXT ENCODING
IF THEY CAN CONTORL OUR COMMUNICATION
THEY CAN CONTORL OUR THOUHGTS
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [8 favorites]
So before I seek out her videos on Youtube can anyone tell me if she's a real singer or does she have another one of those auto-tune voices?
The vocals to Poker Face sung in one note, delivered as apathetically as possible. No vocoders that I remember though.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2009
The vocals to Poker Face sung in one note, delivered as apathetically as possible. No vocoders that I remember though.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:34 AM on August 16, 2009
From Karl's post in the comments, in response to Christopher's well-reasoned argument that some of the imagery is indeed there, but is being used as artistic commentary:
Perhaps there are some views here that can be perceived as a bit extreme but it is much safer to perceive that way, than to live in utter ignorance.
I don't know that I've ever seen a conpiracy nut sum up the conspiracy nut mindset more concisely. Much better to be baphometshitinsane than to be one of the "sheeple".
posted by gimli at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2009
Perhaps there are some views here that can be perceived as a bit extreme but it is much safer to perceive that way, than to live in utter ignorance.
I don't know that I've ever seen a conpiracy nut sum up the conspiracy nut mindset more concisely. Much better to be baphometshitinsane than to be one of the "sheeple".
posted by gimli at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2009
eh. Kind of a catchy chorus I guess.
I'll stick to my Best of Starland Vocal Band thankyouverymuch.
posted by Bonzai at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2009
I'll stick to my Best of Starland Vocal Band thankyouverymuch.
posted by Bonzai at 8:48 AM on August 16, 2009
The Whelk: I was just thinking about From Hell and about the fact that just about every attempt to explain the Ripper murders avoids the most probable explanation that they were committed by a middle-class nobody who stopped killing because he died of consumption, fell under the wheels of a carriage, skipped down due to increased police attention (ala, the roughly contemporaneous H. H. Holmes), or fell prey to any one of a dozen other premature maladies of late-Victorian urban life. I suspect one of the reasons why the Ripper folklore is so much richer than H. H. Holmes folklore, is because the unsolved mystery provides a blank stage on which we can project all of our fantasies and conspiracy theories regarding how the Victorian era really worked.
I just finished re-reading The Count of Monte Cristo, which I think has some interesting observations about celebrity. One of the things that struck me about it is that everyone, except for the strictly credulous and honest Morrel family, realizes that The Count of Monte Cristo is a big fake. But the three main antagonists are fake as well, having gained their status in the wake of Napoleon through marriage (Villefort), money (Danglars), and treason (Morcerf). Most characters in the novel are more than happy to be deceived because the Count satisfies their desires for entertainment, flattery, and heroically grand gestures of favoritism.
Which is why I think Lady Gaga works right now. She doesn't pretend to be the down-home yokel dreaming of stardom, the gospel singer gone bad (Katy Perry), or the granola singer-songwriter tormented by self-doubt. The whole act is based around being the most obvious and outrageous fake on the block, but she does have a fair quantity of musical chops to back it up IMO.
So before I seek out her videos on Youtube can anyone tell me if she's a real singer or does she have another one of those auto-tune voices?
I suggest checking out stage or television clips. Her studio singles have the life processed out of them. Her live performances IMO are better, although still not my thing.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:54 AM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
I just finished re-reading The Count of Monte Cristo, which I think has some interesting observations about celebrity. One of the things that struck me about it is that everyone, except for the strictly credulous and honest Morrel family, realizes that The Count of Monte Cristo is a big fake. But the three main antagonists are fake as well, having gained their status in the wake of Napoleon through marriage (Villefort), money (Danglars), and treason (Morcerf). Most characters in the novel are more than happy to be deceived because the Count satisfies their desires for entertainment, flattery, and heroically grand gestures of favoritism.
Which is why I think Lady Gaga works right now. She doesn't pretend to be the down-home yokel dreaming of stardom, the gospel singer gone bad (Katy Perry), or the granola singer-songwriter tormented by self-doubt. The whole act is based around being the most obvious and outrageous fake on the block, but she does have a fair quantity of musical chops to back it up IMO.
So before I seek out her videos on Youtube can anyone tell me if she's a real singer or does she have another one of those auto-tune voices?
I suggest checking out stage or television clips. Her studio singles have the life processed out of them. Her live performances IMO are better, although still not my thing.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:54 AM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
I love this article and I love her. Either she is a genius or they have geniuses surrounding her. I really can't wait to see what she does next.
I hope she reads this article and starts doing more occult stuff on purpose.
posted by empath at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
I hope she reads this article and starts doing more occult stuff on purpose.
posted by empath at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
KirkJobSluder: what is she faking? So she wears ridiculous costumes. I don't see anything fake involved at all. Performative and exaggerated? Absolutely. Artificial? Of course. But she is not really faking any of it.
posted by idiopath at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by idiopath at 9:41 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Denver Airport is mentioned above...just to note that one of the more entertaining parts of the vigilantcitizen's website is his expose of "sinister sites" around the world, including DIA and NYC's St. John's Cathedral..
posted by kozad at 9:46 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by kozad at 9:46 AM on August 16, 2009
So I hear that Sigue Sigue Sputnik are reuniting .....
posted by blucevalo at 9:54 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by blucevalo at 9:54 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: What we're probably looking at here is sex magick.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:05 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 10:05 AM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
idiopath: what is she faking? So she wears ridiculous costumes. I don't see anything fake involved at all. Performative and exaggerated? Absolutely. Artificial? Of course. But she is not really faking any of it.
I guess I don't understand the distinction you are making here. I'm generally working on the assumption that Lady Gaga is a performance act that's dropped when the cameras are off. Of course I could be wrong.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:07 AM on August 16, 2009
I guess I don't understand the distinction you are making here. I'm generally working on the assumption that Lady Gaga is a performance act that's dropped when the cameras are off. Of course I could be wrong.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:07 AM on August 16, 2009
"Holly Golightly? She's a phony. But she's a real phony!"
posted by gimonca at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by gimonca at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
For some reason, The Vigilant Citizen didn't explain the hidding meaning of these lyrics:
Let's have some fun
this beat is sick.
I wanna take a ride
on your disco stick.
posted by iviken at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Let's have some fun
this beat is sick.
I wanna take a ride
on your disco stick.
posted by iviken at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sigue Sigue Sputnik are still active, though Tony James has been focusing more on Carbon/Silicon lately.
posted by Lazlo at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by Lazlo at 10:15 AM on August 16, 2009
"Talk about,
mmm,
pop music,
Talk about,
pop music ... loud and clear!"
'Nuf said.
posted by aldus_manutius at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2009
mmm,
pop music,
Talk about,
pop music ... loud and clear!"
'Nuf said.
posted by aldus_manutius at 10:17 AM on August 16, 2009
Which is why he decided to worship a sock puppet, to dabble in Occultism without going totally mad, cause seriously, who could end up believing the sock puppet?
DO YOU QUESTION THE MIGHTY BANJO?
posted by Evilspork at 10:29 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
DO YOU QUESTION THE MIGHTY BANJO?
posted by Evilspork at 10:29 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Gaga is questioned by a man who is talking in a very strange and hypnotic matter. If this is not about mind control, I have no idea what its about.
Well watching it sure makes my head hurt. Does that count?
posted by nola at 10:50 AM on August 16, 2009
Well watching it sure makes my head hurt. Does that count?
posted by nola at 10:50 AM on August 16, 2009
Aha! Mystery solved.
This explains where our local 9/11 Conspiracy theorist gets his talking points from. He held a recent City Hall council meeting and public demonstration hostage (a meeting and demonstration to call for an arrested City Council president to step down) with his extensive analysis of the government's brainwashing of us sheeple via the Transformers Movie.
posted by stagewhisper at 10:54 AM on August 16, 2009
This explains where our local 9/11 Conspiracy theorist gets his talking points from. He held a recent City Hall council meeting and public demonstration hostage (a meeting and demonstration to call for an arrested City Council president to step down) with his extensive analysis of the government's brainwashing of us sheeple via the Transformers Movie.
posted by stagewhisper at 10:54 AM on August 16, 2009
Let's have some fun
this beat is sick.
I wanna take a ride
on your disco stick.
Let's drive ourselves into a state of ecstasy in which to practice the ancient magicks, through the ancient art of mad, rhythmic dancing. I want to arrive at this state of being riding upon the psychic power of your wand!
posted by emperor.seamus at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2009
this beat is sick.
I wanna take a ride
on your disco stick.
Let's drive ourselves into a state of ecstasy in which to practice the ancient magicks, through the ancient art of mad, rhythmic dancing. I want to arrive at this state of being riding upon the psychic power of your wand!
posted by emperor.seamus at 11:05 AM on August 16, 2009
The disco stick being, of course, the lingam, which she would ride with her yoni to the rhythm of the universe.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:10 AM on August 16, 2009
I wanna take a ride
on your disco stick.
Clearly a reference to witchcraft.
posted by empath at 11:13 AM on August 16, 2009
on your disco stick.
Clearly a reference to witchcraft.
posted by empath at 11:13 AM on August 16, 2009
Damn, you're right. I've been reading too much neo-Pagan lit professed by Kylie Minogue and have forgotten all about the ceremonial practices from the likes of GaGa.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:18 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:18 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Or to bring this around back to Alan Moore, and his seminal (in more ways than one) Promethia, it's all about the chalice and blade.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2009
Lady G is talking in a vaporous and robotic way, as if she was lobotomized, about a man who “swallowed her brain”. Gaga is questioned by a man who is talking in a very strange and hypnotic matter. If this is not about mind control, I have no idea what its about.
Thank you for admitting that you have no idea what it's about, but what an odd subtle way of doing so.
posted by djduckie at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Thank you for admitting that you have no idea what it's about, but what an odd subtle way of doing so.
posted by djduckie at 11:34 AM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
How can you get one of the smartest discussion boards on the internet talking about your vapid pop music? Try incorporating a lot of unrelated occult symbolism into your act in unexplained contexts. It seems to work like a charm.
posted by hippybear at 11:40 AM on August 16, 2009
posted by hippybear at 11:40 AM on August 16, 2009
"Nothing is true. Everything is Pop."
Hassan-i Spears
posted by FatherDagon at 1:15 PM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
Hassan-i Spears
posted by FatherDagon at 1:15 PM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
Now I'm disappointed that Lady G isn't an occult multiply-gendered anunnaki rococo-disco-ball-fairy-princess-from-hell tool of the Illuminati.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:42 PM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:42 PM on August 16, 2009 [4 favorites]
Let's drive ourselves into a state of ecstasy in which to practice the ancient magicks, through the ancient art of mad, rhythmic dancing. I want to arrive at this state of being riding upon the psychic power of your wand!
The Bacchae are really into dance re-mixes now, FYI.
posted by The Whelk at 2:16 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
The Bacchae are really into dance re-mixes now, FYI.
posted by The Whelk at 2:16 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Spongebob AntiChrist
Who lives in a pentagram under the sea?
posted by The Whelk at 2:17 PM on August 16, 2009 [10 favorites]
oh! and KirkJobSluder, I think another reason why we have so ...so many JTR stories is because "Maybe he died or was actually two seperate people or just stopped doing it" makes for a really lame story. Embodiments of Eeeeevil and downright mythological characters don't crawl of the woodwork often, so you end up with "And he moved to Argentina! Or New York! And he was secretly a Magic Mason Royal! He could be RIGHT AROUND THE COOOOORNER!" stories, cause they're so much interesting than dull reality and we're hard-wired to create narrative.
posted by The Whelk at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2009
posted by The Whelk at 2:44 PM on August 16, 2009
Baby, I like this song but I can't think straight anymore
Wait, what are we talking about...?
posted by Robert Angelo at 2:58 PM on August 16, 2009
Wait, what are we talking about...?
posted by Robert Angelo at 2:58 PM on August 16, 2009
No idea. Let's rhythmically dance s'more. Don't you just love wine? Here have a bottle. No talking, just dancing, I love this song!
Wait, why is everyone vibrating?
posted by The Whelk at 3:01 PM on August 16, 2009
Wait, why is everyone vibrating?
posted by The Whelk at 3:01 PM on August 16, 2009
About those non-processed bits posted earlier -- can someone explain why a talented person makes music shitty on purpose? Does she get a thrill from people's surprised reactions this sort of reverse-bait-and-switch?
posted by Anything at 4:26 PM on August 16, 2009
posted by Anything at 4:26 PM on August 16, 2009
About those non-processed bits posted earlier -- can someone explain why a talented person makes music shitty on purpose? Does she get a thrill from people's surprised reactions this sort of reverse-bait-and-switch?
Short and long answer: more money in dancey auto-tune.
If I suspected her or her managers of being really really smart, they'd release the glitzy stuff first, get people hooked on the image, then quietly send out the better acoustic stuff to pick up the other (but more influential to the upper-culture) markets.
Dangit. Now I'm starting to think she really is a mind-control puppet.
posted by The Whelk at 4:31 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think she is rather clever. Get attention as the latest Madonna/Cristina/Britney/whatever dance hitmaker with fashion/culture/celebrity pretensions. Generate a string of #1 hits. Run for awhile like this, then make an abrupt turn to illustrate her genuine talent as a songwriter, vocalist, and musician.
Gaga has more going for her than the other previous iterations of this "type" that I mentioned. If she manages the fame of The Fame well and doesn't give in to the worst excess, she could be around for years.
posted by Robert Angelo at 4:48 PM on August 16, 2009
Gaga has more going for her than the other previous iterations of this "type" that I mentioned. If she manages the fame of The Fame well and doesn't give in to the worst excess, she could be around for years.
posted by Robert Angelo at 4:48 PM on August 16, 2009
Run for awhile like this, then make an abrupt turn to illustrate her genuine talent as a songwriter, vocalist, and musician.
Evidence that this step is even possible for this artist remains to be seen.
posted by hippybear at 4:55 PM on August 16, 2009
Evidence that this step is even possible for this artist remains to be seen.
posted by hippybear at 4:55 PM on August 16, 2009
I hope these revelations don't incur the fury of the illuminati
posted by jfrancis at 5:01 PM on August 16, 2009
posted by jfrancis at 5:01 PM on August 16, 2009
Francis E. Dec was right: Lady Gaga is a Computer God Frankenstein threshold brainwash radio parroting puppet.
Maybe she'll next release a rap single, so she can be a gangsta' parroting puppet.
posted by acb at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Maybe she'll next release a rap single, so she can be a gangsta' parroting puppet.
posted by acb at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
If I suspected her or her managers of being really really smart, they'd release the glitzy stuff first, get people hooked on the image, then quietly send out the better acoustic stuff to pick up the other (but more influential to the upper-culture) markets.
This is absurd. T-Pain can sing quite well too - he just prefers the sound of autotune in some contexts. How chauvanistic to assert that acoustic stuff requires greater talent and is preferred by the "upper-culture" markets.
That said, Lady Gaga makes me nauseous regardless any production choices.
posted by phrontist at 6:31 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is absurd. T-Pain can sing quite well too - he just prefers the sound of autotune in some contexts. How chauvanistic to assert that acoustic stuff requires greater talent and is preferred by the "upper-culture" markets.
That said, Lady Gaga makes me nauseous regardless any production choices.
posted by phrontist at 6:31 PM on August 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
really, we're back to bitching about sampling? That's kind of 20 years ago isn't it?
posted by empath at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by empath at 6:59 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
L̛͔̩̜͈͔̞̊ͪ̍̈ͮ̚͝Ą̡͉̗̦̲͍̙ͣͮ͗͊̑ͪ̃̓͠ͅḊ̲̙̪̈ͬ̀̅̕͝Y̲̝̞̜̺̥͐ͪͤͧ̑ͩ̂̓̕ ̨͈̻̼̹͇͙̗̀ͬ̒͂̉̀ͦ̃͝ͅG͉̳ͩͬͩͭ̀͝ͅA̴̘̥̱̪̝͙̍͑G̡̥ͧ̒A̞͈̻͑̉ͪ̊̏̾̈́́̚̚͘͟ ̴̧̯͕ͬ̓̍ͭ͆͆ͅS̸̹̲̱̬͕͕̍̍̋ͧ̾H̴͕̦͖ͩ͘͞Ê͔̖̯͉̰̞͔͗̆̂̄̅ͦͦ̑ ̜̯͎ͣ̊̀̊ͫ̿́̇̀̕͢ͅC͉͖̠̊ͨ͂̿ͥ͂͡Ǫ͖̰̭̬̃̿͆̋̊̋̚M̡̓̽̑͏͓E̸̹̟̫͇̪̍͊̓̍ͫͭ́ͭ͘S̻͖̩̞͓̱̘̙̽ͤ̇͜
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:34 PM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:34 PM on August 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
one of the things i love about lady gaga is in her "stripped down" versions, she sings what is normally sampled. like here "g-g-g-gonna be ok" "i've had a little bit too much, much". it's interesting to watch how dance music/dj culture/sampling has affected the way that people lay down vocals before the computers ever touch them. she's smarter than she lets on or gets credited for. i hate her album tracks, but i love her performances. her interviews are also quite good sometimes, as she seems to understand just how absurd the whole thing is. when someone asks her a totally normal, yet idiotic, question she just sort of looks at them for a moment like "you don't realize what a wanker you are, do you?" and then she plays the role of the pop princess.
she likes warhol too much, but most people grow out of that.
posted by nadawi at 8:48 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
she likes warhol too much, but most people grow out of that.
posted by nadawi at 8:48 PM on August 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
How chauvanistic to assert that acoustic stuff requires greater talent and is preferred by the "upper-culture" markets.
I was referring to that fact that the upper-culture markets (Less sheer money, more "respectability") has a marked tendency to disdain auto-tune effects for icons of "realness", like acoustic sounds and minimalism and slower beats.I didn't give my own opinion, it's a big obvious self-identifying trend of the market, I:E the "They do THIS we do THIS" factor.
posted by The Whelk at 8:57 PM on August 16, 2009
I was referring to that fact that the upper-culture markets (Less sheer money, more "respectability") has a marked tendency to disdain auto-tune effects for icons of "realness", like acoustic sounds and minimalism and slower beats.I didn't give my own opinion, it's a big obvious self-identifying trend of the market, I:E the "They do THIS we do THIS" factor.
posted by The Whelk at 8:57 PM on August 16, 2009
obiwanwasabi: That's impressive. That's the first time in a very long time that I've seen the unrenderable glyph.
What glyph set is that? What unicode range?
posted by Netzapper at 8:58 PM on August 16, 2009
What glyph set is that? What unicode range?
posted by Netzapper at 8:58 PM on August 16, 2009
In any case, she's well posied to have crap written about her for years no matter what she does. Who will be the Camille Pagilia to her Madonna?
actually, she can't be Madonna yet cause she doesn't have a strong, single, identifiable, image yet. Something big and stupid and obvious that can haunt her for years afterward, like "Material Girl." If she can manage to create that, then she'll be an icon for ever and ever and drag queens will dress like and shit like that, the end
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 PM on August 16, 2009
actually, she can't be Madonna yet cause she doesn't have a strong, single, identifiable, image yet. Something big and stupid and obvious that can haunt her for years afterward, like "Material Girl." If she can manage to create that, then she'll be an icon for ever and ever and drag queens will dress like and shit like that, the end
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 PM on August 16, 2009
Also the real reason probably is more like "The studio liked it more/thought it was more sellable/that's the effect I-was-going-for!" than any big underground scheme. Love Games is pretty damn catchy.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 PM on August 16, 2009
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 PM on August 16, 2009
empath: really, we're back to bitching about sampling? That's kind of 20 years ago isn't it?
No, I'm bitching about "sampling" (not the term I'd use considering it's not an actual audio excerpt, but whatever) an already pretty mediocre song in an uninteresting way.
posted by phrontist at 1:11 AM on August 17, 2009
No, I'm bitching about "sampling" (not the term I'd use considering it's not an actual audio excerpt, but whatever) an already pretty mediocre song in an uninteresting way.
posted by phrontist at 1:11 AM on August 17, 2009
netzapper: Here, put this tentacle in your bottom. It won't hurt for long.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:14 AM on August 17, 2009
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:14 AM on August 17, 2009
I am too bored with her to read this article - and I say this as someone who loves batshit internettery.
I read the London freesheets on my way home, and it's full of either her, Katy Perry or Peaches Geldof. While I feel I should like Perry and Gaga for being interesting popstars (I find KP's voice unpleasant but I;m talking in terms of image and personality here), I just feel like they try SO hard, and it makes me tired just to look at them.
posted by mippy at 3:25 AM on August 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I read the London freesheets on my way home, and it's full of either her, Katy Perry or Peaches Geldof. While I feel I should like Perry and Gaga for being interesting popstars (I find KP's voice unpleasant but I;m talking in terms of image and personality here), I just feel like they try SO hard, and it makes me tired just to look at them.
posted by mippy at 3:25 AM on August 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I suspect a big reason why studio tracks are so heavily processed and lacking in contrast is because they are intended to be recognizable in environments where the music competes with drunken dancing, shopping, or car noise. Or the music is played over cheap earbuds and tinny computer speakers. Also, the whole genre of dance music these days depends on a relatively seamless beat-matched transition from song to song with no downtime, so there is an additional disincentive to make each track unique.
Of course the feedback mechanisms between performer, technology, environment and audience go back to the Renaissance. But understanding why they do it that way doesn't do much to prevent my flight away from contemporary pop music.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:50 AM on August 17, 2009
Of course the feedback mechanisms between performer, technology, environment and audience go back to the Renaissance. But understanding why they do it that way doesn't do much to prevent my flight away from contemporary pop music.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:50 AM on August 17, 2009
Hmm. Having now seen some of her accoustic stuff and *none* of her processed stuff, I will think of her as rather talented and interesting. I expect I will at some point be blindsided by the public persona but there is definitely some there there.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2009
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2009
Well Durn Bronzefist, normally, I'd be with you and totally uninterested in dealing with the ridiculous public persona she's created - but she's a pop tart who owns it, and I respect her for knowing that what she produces is entertainment, fluff, etc. The rest of them act as if they are engaged in some kind of high art form, and that their public persona is something other than their real persona. Gaga has torn down that glass wall between public and private, and she seems to live her life like a show - one spectacle after another. All the world's a stage...
I do fear that she is burning a touch too brightly, and that her flame will extinguish itself after only a short while, being unable to keep up this intensity. But it's fascinating to watch while it lasts.
And the dance beats are disturbingly catchy (especially when you know that there is some reasonable musical talent underlying them).
posted by greekphilosophy at 8:36 AM on August 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I do fear that she is burning a touch too brightly, and that her flame will extinguish itself after only a short while, being unable to keep up this intensity. But it's fascinating to watch while it lasts.
And the dance beats are disturbingly catchy (especially when you know that there is some reasonable musical talent underlying them).
posted by greekphilosophy at 8:36 AM on August 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, the whole genre of dance music these days depends on a relatively seamless beat-matched transition from song to song with no downtime, so there is an additional disincentive to make each track unique.
It's because its meant to be played on incredibly loud, booming speakers in a dark, packed, club, and the difference between a heavily processed and compressed track and an acoustic/organic/dynamic track is night and day. It will absolutely kill the energy on a dance floor if you make that transition. You can't even really play 'club music' from 8-9 years ago that hasn't been remixed recently. You can see the difference just looking at the waveforms in Ableton, or whatever.
It used to be that the bass kick was the loudest thing on a track, but now the bass line is just as loud as the kick, and punches almost as hard.
There are two goals in dance music production now -- one is to have really driving, loud bass, and the other is to make music 'surround' you-- and the way they do that is to have synths that fill in every single available frequency range, and then they put delays and reverbs on it to fill the stereo field. Unfortunately since the beat and bassline is so loud and constant, everything else needs to be loud, too. The only place where dynamics are even possible to play with is during the 'breakdowns' when the beat stops-- that's when you can have a 'pretty' part of the song. But it goes right back into loud, loud, loud after that.
posted by empath at 8:54 AM on August 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
It's because its meant to be played on incredibly loud, booming speakers in a dark, packed, club, and the difference between a heavily processed and compressed track and an acoustic/organic/dynamic track is night and day. It will absolutely kill the energy on a dance floor if you make that transition. You can't even really play 'club music' from 8-9 years ago that hasn't been remixed recently. You can see the difference just looking at the waveforms in Ableton, or whatever.
It used to be that the bass kick was the loudest thing on a track, but now the bass line is just as loud as the kick, and punches almost as hard.
There are two goals in dance music production now -- one is to have really driving, loud bass, and the other is to make music 'surround' you-- and the way they do that is to have synths that fill in every single available frequency range, and then they put delays and reverbs on it to fill the stereo field. Unfortunately since the beat and bassline is so loud and constant, everything else needs to be loud, too. The only place where dynamics are even possible to play with is during the 'breakdowns' when the beat stops-- that's when you can have a 'pretty' part of the song. But it goes right back into loud, loud, loud after that.
posted by empath at 8:54 AM on August 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
Maybe I'm missing something. What about this woman is different from other manufactured pop artists in years past? Why this much attention? I'm just a little confused.
posted by grubi at 8:57 AM on August 17, 2009
posted by grubi at 8:57 AM on August 17, 2009
What about this woman is different from other manufactured pop artists in years past?
I think it's because there is something slightly off-kilter and subversive about her that people have a hard time figuring out.
posted by empath at 9:22 AM on August 17, 2009
I think it's because there is something slightly off-kilter and subversive about her that people have a hard time figuring out.
posted by empath at 9:22 AM on August 17, 2009
Also that she owns the freakish off-kilter persona without trying to simultaneously cultivate the persona of being just a normal girl like all y'all down there at the piggly wiggly, buyin' a big gulp and a pack uh twinkies, y'all.
posted by greekphilosophy at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2009
posted by greekphilosophy at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2009
What about this woman is different from other manufactured pop artists in years past?
Presuming you don't intend to discriminate between self-manufactured and (other-)manufactured? She still seems to be a hell of a lot more talented than others mentioned in this thread. Yeah, glitz and gimmick is what no-talent artists do (because they have nothing else), but people probably said the same of Ziggy Stardust.
Man. He'd have loved that bubble costume.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:05 AM on August 17, 2009
Presuming you don't intend to discriminate between self-manufactured and (other-)manufactured? She still seems to be a hell of a lot more talented than others mentioned in this thread. Yeah, glitz and gimmick is what no-talent artists do (because they have nothing else), but people probably said the same of Ziggy Stardust.
Man. He'd have loved that bubble costume.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:05 AM on August 17, 2009
Having hummed the damn thing all day, I'm convinced that Love Games is a memetic Melody Virus that reproduces in human thought, altering the behavior and thoughts of the person affected. Furthermore, I wanna take a ride on your disco stick.
posted by The Whelk at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2009
posted by The Whelk at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2009
I think it's because there is something slightly off-kilter and subversive about her that people have a hard time figuring out.
They said the same thing some 12 years ago about the Spice Girls, with their edgily streetwise hip-hop stylings (mostly lifted from Salt & Pepa's top-40 hits of some years earlier) and subversive riot-grrl attitude (i.e., the "Girl Power" catchphrase).
posted by acb at 5:12 AM on August 18, 2009
They said the same thing some 12 years ago about the Spice Girls, with their edgily streetwise hip-hop stylings (mostly lifted from Salt & Pepa's top-40 hits of some years earlier) and subversive riot-grrl attitude (i.e., the "Girl Power" catchphrase).
posted by acb at 5:12 AM on August 18, 2009
I am not a fan of Gaga, but anybody who was seriously claiming the Spice Girls was in any way edgy or subversive, at any point, was either working for Virgin, driving a minivan, or high out of their minds. Gaga has got something at least marginally weirder going on, no question, regardless of merit.
posted by cortex at 7:07 AM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex at 7:07 AM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
To me at least, it seems that many pop stars make at least a pretense of having some "real" roots. Katy Perry seems to be playing the same script as Britney Spears of being the gospel girl gone bad, and therefore her music says something about suburban middle-class America.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:24 AM on August 18, 2009
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:24 AM on August 18, 2009
Gaga has got something at least marginally weirder going on, no question, regardless of merit.
I think a more apt comparison is 80s Madonna. Brazen, unashamedly out to succeed, "controversial" and such.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:17 PM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think a more apt comparison is 80s Madonna. Brazen, unashamedly out to succeed, "controversial" and such.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:17 PM on August 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Uh-oh.
So, I'm hooked on her accoustic stuff. I'd pay for an album of it, no question.
Then I venture into a bit of the processed stuff. A little too deep -- step back. How about a processed version of one of her accoustic songs? Better. Kinda neat. I can imagine the non-accoustic as the "alternate" version. So what else is there...
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:53 PM on August 18, 2009
So, I'm hooked on her accoustic stuff. I'd pay for an album of it, no question.
Then I venture into a bit of the processed stuff. A little too deep -- step back. How about a processed version of one of her accoustic songs? Better. Kinda neat. I can imagine the non-accoustic as the "alternate" version. So what else is there...
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:53 PM on August 18, 2009
My initial reaction to a couple of her pop/MTV videos is the same that I had to Busta Rhymes' super-processed, super-twitchy, super-produced video work when I first encountered it, come to think of it.
posted by cortex at 11:12 PM on August 18, 2009
posted by cortex at 11:12 PM on August 18, 2009
What about this woman is different from other manufactured pop artists in years past?
Any or all of: she's not manufactured, she has serious vocal talent, she completely owns the persona with a nod and a wink without--and this is the important bit--any stupid bloody hipster self-aware irony shite... shall I go on?
The comparison with Madonna is particularly apt. Assuming she's able to follow a similar career trajectory, I predict within 5 years Gaga will tone it down considerably and come out with something spectacular. Sort of the visual inverse of Cher's return to relevance with Believe c. 1998.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
Any or all of: she's not manufactured, she has serious vocal talent, she completely owns the persona with a nod and a wink without--and this is the important bit--any stupid bloody hipster self-aware irony shite... shall I go on?
The comparison with Madonna is particularly apt. Assuming she's able to follow a similar career trajectory, I predict within 5 years Gaga will tone it down considerably and come out with something spectacular. Sort of the visual inverse of Cher's return to relevance with Believe c. 1998.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
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posted by phrontist at 1:16 AM on August 16, 2009 [8 favorites]