This is just getting embarassing!

October 20, 2009 8:35 AM

You know, if I ran the BNP, I think I would think twice about this whole "trusting people with the members list" idea.
posted by Pope Guilty (90 comments total)

Wikileaks, which hosted the excel sheet, is currently overloaded.

Personally, I don't get the move to undermine Nick Griffin. The guy is an ass of the highest order. His political party is full of owngoalers with rapsheets as long as their arms.

Much as I loathe the BNP, let Griffin come on and have his say. Give him the rope, he'll do the rest. He is, if nothing else, extremely reliable in that regard.

The teeth gnashing and dirtyish tricks of the BNP's political opponents run the real risk of conferring on them the status they truly don't deserve: not respectability, but victimhood.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:44 AM on October 20 [2 favorites]

including the grade of membership assigned by the party – standard, family, family plus, gold, OAP, and unwaged.

Wait, you can be a family plus or gold member of the BNP? I thought the BNP was a racist political political, not a gym.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 8:44 AM on October 20 [3 favorites]

Here's a link to the Grauniad's visualisation of the data (organised by constituency).

Wikileaks appears somewhat overwhelmed by the attention, site is timing out for me when I try to connect. Was up this morning though.
posted by SyntacticSugar at 8:45 AM on October 20 [1 favorite]

Lazy thinking ideologues are also lazy with security. Color me surprised.
posted by nangua at 8:46 AM on October 20

Wow, when will people realize that if you want to get rid of racist or offensive organizations, get as many people to join as possible and dillute the crazy.

If all the anti-gun people joined the NRA, they would pretty quickly become a gun-control lobby, rather than a gun-freedom organization.

If all republicans became democrats, they'd shift the entire political landscape to the right, and win.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:46 AM on October 20 [2 favorites]

Why not try a postcode look-up of nearby members?
posted by Jofus at 8:47 AM on October 20 [3 favorites]

Jofus, I don't think that postcode lookup is working. Either that, or take up hasn't been quite so enthusiastic in my neck of the woods, here in Brixton. I'm at a total loss to figure out why.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:53 AM on October 20 [3 favorites]

BNP has denied this one:

the BNP denounced the list as a 'malicious forgery', insisting it is 'unequivocally' not genuine and many of the names had never been in touch with the party...

...'We have had a chance to examine the list in detail and can unequivocally say that it is not a genuine BNP list.

'It is a concoction of the "old" list plus a number of inquiries received, but, most disturbingly, it contains thousands of names of people with whom the BNP has had no contact whatsoever.

posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:05 AM on October 20

Hmmm the 'peer' seems to be a 'Lord' Sutch type of Peer
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:11 AM on October 20

The postcode search is definitely working, here's my old postcode (almost anyway, I changed it for obvious reasons). I wish there was some kind of database of racism in California, so I could compare the bigotry in my immediate area before and after I emigrated. I guess I could use the Megan's Law database, but child rapists aren't exactly a political threat to any of us and unlike the BNP, are swiftly dispatched with a taser.

Speaking of Bristol and the BNP target audience. They (alongside the National Front) are pretty active in areas like Southmead, Knowle West and Hartcliffe. I could write spiels on this subject, especially how racism is really just one of the offshoots of poverty on council estates, but it's all a bit obvious really. If the other political parties got off their arses and communicated with people, the BNP wouldn't even be an issue in the UK.
posted by saturnine at 9:15 AM on October 20

It's quite possibly this has been timed so as to coincide with Nick Griffin's upcoming appearance on Question Time, which if it goes ahead, will hopefully see people ask some of these.
posted by permafrost at 9:15 AM on October 20 [1 favorite]

Griffin and his BNP crowd are indeed an odious bunch, but they are a democratically elected bunch. Let them have their say and have the country illuminated as to their intentions/thoughts etc. Er, this is what we call democracy - take the good and the bad in equal measure and vote according to what group you like the most.

Sad to say but the UK has the poorest bunch of excuses for politicians on all parties that I can remember - perhaps this is the weakness that the BNP are exploiting.

The only reason I can see for the establishment's attempts to muzzle them is that they have something to fear.
posted by cameronfromedinburgh at 9:32 AM on October 20

If I Ran the BNP has to be the worst Seuss book ever.
posted by Bromius at 9:37 AM on October 20 [10 favorites]

Wow, when will people realize that if you want to get rid of racist or offensive organizations, get as many people to join as possible and dillute the crazy.

If all the anti-gun people joined the NRA, they would pretty quickly become a gun-control lobby, rather than a gun-freedom organization.

If all republicans became democrats, they'd shift the entire political landscape to the right, and win.

I was thinking this myself just recently, when the BNP was forced to open up its membership to non-whites. I figured we could get a few thousands black and Asian Brits, and some anti-fascists, to join up, and totally ruin the party.

And then I remembered that the BNP is actually a bunch of violent racist thugs, and I'm sure not brave enough to stand up in a meeting and call for changes to their policies. It's one thing to join the Democratic party and argue against public healthcare, worst thing that happens is someone will shout you down. It's quite another to turn up to a meeting in a pub somewhere and tell the local fascists that they should love immigrants.
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:37 AM on October 20

Look, the BNP is suddenly all mainstream and important because in a moment of modernising silliness in 1999 we stopped using first-past-the-post and switched to proportional representation for European elections. This means that fringe parties like the fascists get the occasional seat.

End the nasty foreign PR import and they're back in the wasteland. Simple. Sensible anti-semites can join the Tories, sensible Communists can join Labour and sensible environmentalists can join the Lib Dems. Wingnuts can go waste their deposits.
posted by alasdair at 9:41 AM on October 20

Griffin and his BNP crowd are indeed an odious bunch, but they are a democratically elected bunch. Let them have their say and have the country illuminated as to their intentions/thoughts etc.

I suspect the problem is that we won't hear their real intentions. They'll make sensible-sounding statements about "protecting British jobs", "protecting the environment by ensuring Britain's population doesn't get too high"; "solving overcrowding on public transport". Things that are hard for anyone to disagree with. So they come out sounding like a common-sense party that stands up for the workers, not like that corrupt lot in Westminster with their expenses claims and so on.

When what they really mean is that anyone with black or brown skin should leave the country, even if they were born here, and that non-British white people shouldn't be allowed in.

Hopefully someone does ask them the questions in the link that permafrost posted.
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:42 AM on October 20 [1 favorite]

On re-reading that: ahem, I didn't mean to say that Tories were Nazis, or that Greens were analogous to the loathesome BNP, though I clearly imply all of that.

What I mean is that people who would be members of the smaller parties under PR will compromise and join the mainstream parties, which means that these parties will have a broader and healthier range of views and the great British system of slowly channelling popular opinion into action through slow and organic mechanisms will continue.

Apologies all round.
posted by alasdair at 9:45 AM on October 20

"...fool me twice... won't get fooled again"
posted by PenDevil at 9:51 AM on October 20

I agree with Infinite Jest that he may get off easy; he's not going to get a list of questions as the ones permafrost linked, because that isn't how QT works. There will be largely fairly general questions not aimed specifically at Griffin and he'll be able to softly bat them away and sound reasonable. I would expect 1 or 2 linked to race issues and it will be decisive whether the others at the table will be able to draw him out.

alasdair: I disagree, the solution to dickheads within society is not to make it less democratic for the rest of us.
posted by biffa at 10:01 AM on October 20

In a bid to practice for Question Time, BNP media handlers ran a simulated event with party faithfuls standing in for audience members eager to ask questions. World exclusive photos - only on Metafilter - here.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:02 AM on October 20

Well, "democratic" isn't an end in itself. It's a way to make government better. I'd hate to live in a TV-based democracy where we all had STRICTLY-COME-DANCING-style 'phone-in votes on legislation. But that would be far more democratic, wouldn't it? And we have the technology, don't we? So why not?

Well, yes, that's a straw man: but you get my point. Democracy is generally a good thing, but it's one of many tools to use when deciding on government policy and legislation. Others include custom, previous case law, constitutional limitations and so on. I don't think the case has been made for PR, or a written constitution, or various other things that are popular in progressive circles.
posted by alasdair at 10:14 AM on October 20

World exclusive photos

One thing that I always wondered: the Fascist salute looks pretty simple - stick your arm out straight. What's with all the people who don't seem to quite get it, and just wave their hands up in the air with a bent elbow? Is it, quite seriously, an act of rebellion? Or are some people just really clumsy and inelegant?

I mean, after the 1940s, we can surely agree that Fascism = good clothes, lousy politics. So if you wave your hand around like that you're not even getting the good bit of Fascism - the dramatic and masculine clothing. So what the point? It's like Griffin or Hitler themselves. How can the exponents of a political philosophy based on competitive physical warfare be so, um, plain and feeble-looking?
posted by alasdair at 10:21 AM on October 20

If I Ran the BNP has to be the worst Seuss book ever.

And actually, I re-read "If I Ran the Zoo" recently, and its pretty racist too.
posted by serazin at 10:35 AM on October 20

Perhaps I should have been clearer re more democracy: perhaps it would bave been better to say we get better representation, ie, representation which more closely represents what the voters want. That throws up problems but I am on the side that says it does improve democracy, and while it may throw up results one does not like, I don't think disenfranchising people who vote in ways we don't like is a healthy way to run our society.

I'd prefer STV myself, as I'm not totally keen on all elements of PR in terms of party machines throwing up politicians it becomes near impossible to oust.
posted by biffa at 11:16 AM on October 20

Griffin was just on Channel 4 News, being interviewed by Jon Snow about the kerfuffle over the BNP's use of WW2 iconography*, and you know what? Odious little fucker though he may be, he knows exactly what buttons to push and he'll wipe the floor with the likes of Jack Straw when it comes to Question Time, which – much more so than Snow's fairly confrontational form – rewards the kind of bowlderised soundbites and slogans that Griffin so excels at.

*Churchill, Spitfires, etc. What one of the mainstream parties need to do is confront this head on – go on the news, and say, "You know what? Any man who is the direct political descendant of British people who supported Hitler in the 1930s, and who once referred to the murder of 6 million Jews as "the holohoax" has absolutely no right to invoke the patriotism of Spitfire pilots and Winston Churchill to further his bigoted, racist, fascist agenda."
posted by Len at 11:57 AM on October 20 [4 favorites]

Look, the BNP is suddenly all mainstream and important because in a moment of modernising silliness in 1999 we stopped using first-past-the-post and switched to proportional representation for European elections. This means that fringe parties like the fascists get the occasional seat.

End the nasty foreign PR import and they're back in the wasteland. Simple. Sensible anti-semites can join the Tories, sensible Communists can join Labour and sensible environmentalists can join the Lib Dems. Wingnuts can go waste their deposits.

Is this satire? or is this serious analysis?

I mean, your answer to the problem is "fix the system so they won't ever get elected, and then we'll have an excuse to ignore them." But you do know that they have a few local councillors too, don't you? Or would you like to fix that system as well? The only solution to the BNP problem is to offer a better alternative to their constituency, focussing on non-racial analyses of their problems. I don't doubt there is a hardcore of racists in their party membership that we can never get rid of, but many of the people who vote for them - and enable them to win any elections whatsoever - are people won over by BNP lies on housing, immigration, employment, and so on.
posted by Sova at 12:12 PM on October 20 [2 favorites]

Can someone explain this part to me?

Yesterday the Welsh secretary, Peter Hain, called on the BBC to withdraw Griffin's Question Time invitation because the BNP is currently "an unlawful body" after the party told a court last week it would have to amend its whites-only membership rules to meet discrimination legislation.

I already knew the BNP were scum, no problem there, but do they seriously have a whites-only membership rule? And that was only changed last week? And they were still allowed to hold public office as representatives from a formally-discriminatory political organ? What am I missing?
posted by Errant at 12:24 PM on October 20

A BNP spokesman said it considered any publication of its internal membership data to be a criminal offence under the Data Protection Act. "This is an example of the perpetual hatred and vilification we face," said BNP deputy chairman Simon Darby.

I am unmoved by a "whites-only" party's complaints of facing hatred and vilification.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
posted by gagoumot at 12:38 PM on October 20 [1 favorite]

HATE
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:50 PM on October 20

alasdair: Look, the BNP is suddenly all mainstream and important because in a moment of modernising silliness in 1999 we stopped using first-past-the-post and switched to proportional representation for European elections. This means that fringe parties like the fascists get the occasional seat.

End the nasty foreign PR import and they're back in the wasteland. Simple. Sensible anti-semites can join the Tories, sensible Communists can join Labour and sensible environmentalists can join the Lib Dems. Wingnuts can go waste their deposits.

My first response to this, as an American, is an eye-roll and a sardonic "gee, it would be great if UK politics were more like American politics, now wouldn't it?"

My second response is to point out that I think you're quite wrong; again, this is an American's perspective, but blaming the resurgence of the BNP on election reforms rather than other more apparent and more immediate causes – unaddressed racism in certain quarters, for example, and the fickleness of democratic populations combined with a long-in-power Labour government, and finally a simple backlash against the fair chunk of modernization the last generation of Britons have undergone – seems a bit rash. I mean, the basic problem you're hoping to solve isn't that people are joining the BNP, it's that people have certain sentimental and intellectual affiliations which motivate them to join the BNP. Take it from a guy in a country where no one could every dream of saying something blatantly racist and stay a member of one of the two parties – that hasn't completely wiped racism out of society. In fact, it might be making it worse; the point isn't to prevent people from speaking their minds, it's to actually convince them that racism is wrong.
posted by koeselitz at 12:50 PM on October 20 [2 favorites]

from Guardian article: The party appears to have benefited from a surge in female recruits – one in eight party members are now women.

You know what this means, don't you? It means that one in every seven male BNP members is pissing off the other six. "Jesus, Joe, you brought your wife again? What the hell &ndash we're trying to recreate Old Britain here, not some socialist paradise! Doesn't she have some washing she could be doing?"
posted by koeselitz at 12:58 PM on October 20 [1 favorite]

"We should hang people. Er... just kidding!"
posted by Artw at 12:58 PM on October 20

The party appears to have benefited from a surge in female recruits

Whether it's currently the case, I don't know, but the Daily Mail is one of the few papers to have boasted a larger female than male readership, and its outlook also fits quite nicely with the BNP. If the BNP instituted policies to go around beating up (or at least mocking mercilessly) women in the public eye with fat thighs or unflattering dresses, they might get their female membership up even further.
posted by Grangousier at 1:06 PM on October 20

The party appears to have benefited from a surge in female recruits – one in eight party members are now women.

Ha!
posted by brundlefly at 1:08 PM on October 20

Personally, I don't get the move to undermine Nick Griffin. The guy is an ass of the highest order. His political party is full of owngoalers with rapsheets as long as their arms.

But they're doing a fabulous job of distracting people from the Conservative party's very real connections with the Jew hating, Waffen-SS loving political parties of Eastern Europe.
posted by rodgerd at 1:20 PM on October 20

I already knew the BNP were scum, no problem there, but do they seriously have a whites-only membership rule? And that was only changed last week? And they were still allowed to hold public office as representatives from a formally-discriminatory political organ? What am I missing?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes, unfortunately.
Nothing, unfortunately.
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:28 PM on October 20

The party appears to have benefited from a surge in female recruits

From what they're saying, this is a fake: it's the old list with a bunch of new names added, most or all of whom are not really BNP members.

If whoever added the new names added fifty-fifty male and female, that would give the impression of a surge in female recruits since the actual membership is overwhelmingly male.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:48 PM on October 20

TheophileEscargot: From what they're saying, this is a fake: it's the old list with a bunch of new names added, most or all of whom are not really BNP members.

From what the BNP is saying, Asians and Muslims are destroying the fabric of society in the United Kingdom by watering down the precious British blood with their filthy foreign influences. I think maybe we should hold off before taking anything they say seriously, much less taking at face value their claim that the list is fake. Don't you?

What's more, they claim that this is just the old list with a few names added. However, the Guardian states that:

The last time BNP data was published, it emerged that teachers, policemen and former members of the Conservative, Labour and the Lib Dem parties had signed up. Several dozen admitted to being members and were named in the press. The latest list suggests that at least 19 of those members have now left the party.

So apparently at least 19 names have also been removed from the list, although the BNP's explanation doesn't account for that.

I don't believe them.
posted by koeselitz at 1:58 PM on October 20

Nothing, unfortunately.

Ok, consider me boggled of mind.

Now I'm curious, although this might be a derail; my questions, and indeed my attitude, presumed that political parties in the US are not legally allowed to discriminate in membership. I just sort of assumed that was the case in the US and the UK. Being wrong about England, am I also wrong about the US? What about the rest of the UK?

That's not intended as a LOLUK jab or anything, I'm genuinely bewildered. I wouldn't have thought that would still be legal in any of those nations.

(haha, weren't you just saying how racism totally still exists in that other thread and now you're surprised to see it formalized? you idiot.) /inner voice
posted by Errant at 2:12 PM on October 20

I found it interesting that 42 members had "USA" as their location.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:07 PM on October 20

koeselitz: This feels like it's turning into one of those logic puzzles...

Last time, they admitted the list was genuine. This time, they're saying it's part-genuine and part-fake.

So, you can't conclude that "everything they say false", or you must conclude that the last list was a fake, in which case the early part of this list is fake too.

Remember that this is just an anonymous Internet posting. You can't conclude it must be true because the BNP say it's fake. Sometimes, things that are anonymously posted to the Internet are not true. Sometimes, the BNP tell the truth.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:12 PM on October 20

I found it interesting that 42 members had "USA" as their location.

I had a look at the previously leaked list, and was disturbed to find one member living not far from me. In Tasmania, Australia. Useless prick should go back to his own country.
posted by Jimbob at 4:00 PM on October 20

the Jew hating, Waffen-SS loving political parties of Eastern Europe.

Not all Eastern European political parties fit that description. In fact, most don't. Just Cameron's mates.
posted by athenian at 4:55 PM on October 20

the BNP's use of WW2 iconography

BNP bosses have been ridiculed for using a Polish Spitfire to front a campaign calling for Eastern European immigrants to be barred from Britain.
posted by kersplunk at 5:54 PM on October 20 [1 favorite]

Actually, you know what would be interesting? If everyone in Britain who isn't white or who wasn't born in Britain went on strike for a week. See how it plays out. Let's see how that makes people think about the BNP.
posted by Jimbob at 6:40 PM on October 20

Now I'm curious, although this might be a derail; my questions, and indeed my attitude, presumed that political parties in the US are not legally allowed to discriminate in membership. I just sort of assumed that was the case in the US and the UK. Being wrong about England, am I also wrong about the US? What about the rest of the UK?

I think the reason they were forced to change is that they were elected to something that matters. Three men and a bit of money can call themselves a political party all they like - and stand for election (and probably lose their deposit). And they can restrict membership to their party to being members of their social club. (See also the Monster Raving Loony Party). Once they get somewhere important, this all changes. And due to having MEPs, the BNP takes EU funding...
posted by Francis at 4:08 AM on October 21

the Jew hating, Waffen-SS loving political parties of Eastern Europe.

Not all Eastern European political parties fit that description. In fact, most don't. Just Cameron's mates.

Indeed. My apologies to the numerous non-SS loving Eastern Europeans if my wording was unclear.
posted by rodgerd at 1:26 PM on October 21

blaming the resurgence of the BNP on election reforms rather than other more apparent and more immediate causes ... seems a bit rash.

They got 6% of the vote. They would have no MEPs under first-past-the-post, and we would all still be ignoring them. PR gave them two MEPs, so now they're all over the place.

We have never elected Fascists before - not even in the 1930s. Now we have. What's changed? The electoral system. 100 years of Fascism - no MPs. 9 years of PR - two MEPs.
posted by alasdair at 3:37 AM on October 22

alasdair: We have never elected Fascists before - not even in the 1930s. Now we have. What's changed? The electoral system. 100 years of Fascism - no MPs. 9 years of PR - two MEPs.

... so you're saying that those two MEPs have done more damage than a hundred years of fascism? Somehow I still feel as though the problem isn't really in allowing everybody an equal share in government; it's in the use some people are making of it. There may well be times when we have to withdraw from democracy in order to save the state, but does this really seem like one of them?

Your view may be different from mine; it looks to me more like two MEPs have been almost completely ineffectual as far as directly acting on government is concerned, and have served much more to demonstrate to everybody the fact that racism is still a problem. All this is not to mention the fact that someone mentioned above that there are still some BNP candidates on local councils; this has absolutely nothing to do with PR, and you couldn't get rid of them just by switching back the electoral process.

Changing the electoral process again would be a net bad, since it would remove a democratic directness; whereas keeping it does very little harm, since the BNP is still pretty much hamstrung and unable to do anything whatsoever to change the direction of the country beyond highlighting (as well they should) the fact that racism is still a problem.
posted by koeselitz at 6:30 AM on October 22

alasdair: ... and we would all still be ignoring them.

I guess my point is: ignoring them clearly didn't work, and making the system less democratic just so that you can ignore them more won't help, either.
posted by koeselitz at 6:32 AM on October 22

BNP bar non-whites from meeting (on the same day that the court ordered them to open membership to everybody, and they said they were happy to do so. 9 British citizens were turned away for being black; one white Swedish woman was invited to stay...). Here's the video.

On the PR argument: New Zealand introduced PR about 15 years ago and we've seen nothing like the BNP emerge. There is a socially conservative party that is moderately anti-immigrant, but nowhere near fascist. The only minor parties that have consistently succeeded are the Greens, and the Maori party, with Christian parties coming close, and Legalise Cannabis and various joke parties doing better than the fascists.
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:50 PM on October 22

Newsnight Live blogging:

Big cheer for Jack Straw when he recognised the contribution of black & asian sodiers in the WWII.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:40 PM on October 22

But New Zealand is so nice.

Also you'll note that the Green party does do better than the BNP - I'm not really sure what the equivalent of the Maori or Christian parties would be.

European Election 2009: UK Results

Far more to blame than PR is probably the general vortex of despair that UK politics is sliding into. Euro election turnout is low, and the people that do turn out tend to be people who turn out for the fringe parties (Like UKIP, which is basically BNP lite with a similar level of competency)

943,598 votes is still pretty horrifying though.
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on October 22

Newsnight Live blogging:

N Griffin claimed that Churchill decried mass immigration to the UK as 'after our benefits'.

Which benefits were those, Nick?

Then he goes ad hominem on Jack Straw about his dad's conscientious objection.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:42 PM on October 22

Also though I'd assumed that Euro election turnout had slumped in a similar manner to the general elections it looks like it's always been fairly steady with a dip in 1999.
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on October 22

Newsnight Live blogging:

How does Griffin react to an articulate challenge from the black guy in the audience:
changes the subject.

Are you a holocaust denier? Changes the subject?

'Ethnicity? Do you want it to be 99% white in the UK?'

Changes the subject.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:44 PM on October 22

Newsnight Live blogging:

Panellist Bonnie Greer pointed out the possibility that W Churchill had Mohawk blood via his mother - thus the inadmissibility of Churchill into the BNP in their [soon to be reformed] constitution.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:49 PM on October 22

They're victimizing him with questions and facts and stuff!
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on October 22

Did Adolph Hitler really quote "go a bit too far?"

- I was misquoted, says Griffin.

I was 4 square behind Israel in their Gaza campaign.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:51 PM on October 22

David Duke was a member of a 'almost entirely non-violent' branch of the KKK' - Nick Griffin.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:53 PM on October 22

I cannot explain why I used to say those things - re: his former holocaust denying.

The Justice Minister says - there is no legal reason why he cannot explain why !??!
posted by dash_slot- at 2:56 PM on October 22

British radio intercepts changed my mind, he says...

Jack Straw says 'what about Auschwitz? You don't need intercepts for that!'
posted by dash_slot- at 2:58 PM on October 22

#bbcqt on Twitter has been fun to follow.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on October 22

Why is Islam evil?

Well, it's wife-abusive for a start, I demand a truce. At least it isn't usurious... and I'm antiIraq war [no blood on my hands...]

And if Muslims must stay in the UK, it is a British, western & christian country...and they must accept that.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:59 PM on October 22

How much travelling hae you done Nick?
I went to Libya [Jack Straw: 'to get funds, Nick']
posted by dash_slot- at 3:02 PM on October 22

The oxygen of publicity appears to make things highly flammable.
posted by Artw at 3:02 PM on October 22

How weird it is for there to be a conversation where Jack Straw isn't the fascist asshole.
posted by Artw at 3:03 PM on October 22 [1 favorite]

Bonnie Greer points out how long the B Isles were multi-racial... since the multi racial Roman Legions at least [ie, before the AD 700 potted history on the BNP website].
posted by dash_slot- at 3:04 PM on October 22 [1 favorite]

Sayeeda Warsi - Tory Speaker on Community Cohesion - admits that we dont have an honest debate on immigration. That we dot have to turn to a racist fascist party to express our opinions [why - because the Tories can do it]!
posted by dash_slot- at 3:09 PM on October 22

Griffin will wrap his slimy arms around any badwagon going - [audience member]
posted by dash_slot- at 3:12 PM on October 22

Lib Dem guy says we issue 2million student visas p.a. - and we dont know if they leave!
posted by dash_slot- at 3:14 PM on October 22

Griffin nods when Lib Dem guy says BNP success is because of the disconnection of the voters with politics.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:15 PM on October 22

Indigenous.... - Nick Griffin.

White? - J Straw

Colour has nothing to do with it - Griffin.

It's about the folk that have been here for 17,000 years.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:17 PM on October 22

'Successive governments have committed genocide on their own people' - Griffin.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:18 PM on October 22

Your website history is wacky -

All peoples that repopulated the islands afetr the Ice Age came from the south of Europe - apart from the Neanderthals...Bonnie Greer
posted by dash_slot- at 3:21 PM on October 22

Some reference from some odd unsourced poll... purporting to say that 2/3 of folk support him.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:22 PM on October 22

How do you cap our population at 65million without authoritarian measures on family size? - Jack Straw.

U are in denial - Sayeeda

Ordinary public do not want it. - audience

Immigration rises as unemployment does too. - audience
posted by dash_slot- at 3:26 PM on October 22

Re: The Daily Mail - should Jan Moir have published the article? - audience question

Least evil option in a proper democracy - Bonnie Greer.

Crude homophobic speculation similar to BNP racism - Lib Dem guy.

Press have a responsibility not to publish. Dont take the dead's name in vain. Civil partnerships are OK - Sayeeda

Don't teach gaty or other sex ed to primary school kids - and dont speak ill of the dead. People feel that guys kissing is creepy. We dont think the state should interfere in private relationships - Griffin
posted by dash_slot- at 3:32 PM on October 22

Jack Straw makes some anodyne remarks about CP's

audience member says she is gay and his odium of her is reciprical.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:34 PM on October 22

Meta:

is this episode featuring Griffin a gift to the BNP? - audience

Dont let the BBC decide the participants of the debate - Lib Dem guy.

Not part of the British way - Bonnie Greer

BNP p r failed, we saw him as he is - Sayeeda

BBC is unpleasant, ultra leftist, 'traitorous'.

A catastrophic week for the BNP, Griffin is a fantasising conspiracy theorist - Straw.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:37 PM on October 22

My flatmate pointed out that Griffin had a shaking hand which at one point he was struggling to keep under control with his free hand [shades of Dr Strangelove!]
posted by dash_slot- at 3:39 PM on October 22 [1 favorite]

Portillo - he was massacred, he was shifty. - On the post show analysis This Week.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:46 PM on October 22

He looked far more uncomfortable interviewed by the public than 1 on 1. - Portillo

What about the British sense of fair play - 1 against all, the underdog, the voice of the people?
posted by dash_slot- at 3:48 PM on October 22

Has British politics now changed?

Maybe - D Abbott

No. - Alan Davies

Are the BNP a sophisticated outfit? - No Davies, Yes Neill.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:51 PM on October 22

9/11 & 7/7 are now enormous recruiting sergeants for BNP - no longer the plain racists of yore.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:56 PM on October 22

OK that's it.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:57 PM on October 22

And if you really wnat to depress yourself, try this link: I THOUGHT QUESTION TIME TONIGHT WAS WORTH WATCHING. WELL DONE NICK ! YOU HAVE MY VOTE
posted by Artw at 4:00 PM on October 22

My god am I gloomy after all of that.

I mean, he's a fuckwit, and he's demonstated that pretty fully, but 2% of the electorate voted for the fucker. That's 1 in 50 adult British citizens. And yes, the more sensible voters might come out in the next election, but that's still way too many racist idiots.

Gloom.
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on October 22

Don't worry, Artw. We went though this all a decade ago in Australia with Pauline Hanson and the One Nation party.

The BNP won't last long on the political scene, because the Conservatives will the election and adopt all their policies, rendering them completely unnecessary, huzzah!

Oh gawd.
posted by Jimbob at 5:00 PM on October 22 [1 favorite]

Sadly quite likely.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on October 22