The act authorizes $550 billion for the Pentagon’s base budget in fiscal 2010 and $130 billion more for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. [550 + 130 = 680. TNW] That compares to a total of $654 billion for both accounts in fiscal 2009.posted by TheNewWazoo at 10:13 AM on October 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Hate crimes are idiotic. Things that were already illegal become "super-illegal."So let's say you're, oh, I dunno, a senator. And let's say that groups of people, oh, let's call them Nazis, have been killing people who identify themselves as Senators. And let's say that being a Senator is important to you. Crucial, even, to your sense of self. Let's say that you haven't necessarily been targeted, but you know that Senators are getting beaten and even killed, and there's been a really strong causal relationship between the violence and disclosure of Senatorship.
Let's punish people for their conduct, not what we suspect is going on inside of their head.
posted by flarbuse at 1:11 PM on October 29 [+] [!]
In real dollars though?Well, if the dollar has deflated (which it may well have due to a contraction in the economy and a demand for liquidity, I don't know because I'm not an economist), then that 4% could be larger in real dollars. Can anyone who is actually informed weigh in?
posted by DU at 1:18 PM on October 29 [+] [!]
You have to have a federal hate crime law in order to recognize the existence of gay married couples? Or in order to stop the government persecuting servicemembers? How on earth did the civil rights movement for African-American equality unfold all the way to inter-racial marriage without a single hate crimes provision? I think Birch was saying: this was the easiest get, and thereby gets the gays marked in federal law as a protected victim class. Once gays are turned legally into victims, more laws can be passed enshrining that status.posted by delmoi at 10:30 AM on October 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
The trouble is: victims are not servicemembers or married couples. Marriage and military service do require real things from gay citizens, real responsibilties and real equality. Victim laws merely require things from government. And that's why the hate crimes fixation makes sense from the HRC point of view. The campaign was a brilliant decades-long marketing measure to provide HRC with funding, while giving Democratic party officials an alibi for not tackling the actual question of equality.
Gender, disability and sexual orientation are now additional protected classifications [added to those classes already covered -- race, color, religion or national origin].Regarding the specious 'free speech/thought crime' argument:
The six federally protected activities enumerated in the 1969 law have been deleted. A victim is protected by the law at all times, not just when they were doing specific activities, like being at work, voting, or attending a public school.
The scope of the law includes:
Both men and women who are now protected if the assault or threat of assault was gender-based.
Quadriplegics, paraplegics, and persons who are blind, deaf etc. are protected from attacks from individuals because of their disability.
Heterosexuals, gays, lesbians, and bisexuals are all protected from crimes motivated by hatred of sexual orientation.
"Social and religious conservatives generally oppose the bill. Many ignore the protections that the bill would give to women, men, the disabled, and heterosexuals. They appear to be concerned almost exclusively with protections given to persons of one sexual orientation: homosexuals. They are concerned that a person who verbally attacks gays or lesbians could be charged under the act if any violent or criminal act resulted from the speech. This appears to be a misinterpretation of the bill, because it could only be applied to a person who has actually committed a crime. Speeches attacking gays and lesbians are not a criminal behavior; they are protected speech under the First Amendment."*We are all now protected from crimes motivated by hate. Whites, blacks, Jews, Christians, gay, straight, able-bodied, handicapped, etc.
Also -- HR 1592 contains a 'Rule of Construction' which specifically provides that "Nothing in this Act...shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution."
""Every act of violence is tragic and harmful in its consequences, but not all crime is based on hate. A hate crime or bias motivated crime occurs when the perpetrator of the crime intentionally selects the victim because of who the victim is. A bias motivated crime affects not only the victim and their family but an entire community or category of people and their families. A study funded by the Bureau of Justice Statistics released September 2000, shows that 85 percent of law enforcement officials surveyed recognize bias motivated violence to be more serious than similar crimes not motivated by bias.posted by ericb at 10:37 AM on October 29, 2009 [5 favorites]
Hate crimes are destructive and divisive. A random act of violence resulting in injury or even death is a tragic event that devastates the lives of the victim and their family, but the intentional selection and beating or murder of an individual because of who they are terrorizes an entire community and sometimes the nation. For example, it is easy to recognize the difference between check-kiting and a cross burning; or the arson of an office building versus the intentional torching of a church or synagogue. The church or synagogue burning has a profound impact on the congregation, the faith community, the greater community, and the nation."*
"According to FBI statistics, of the over 113,000 hate crimes since 1991, 55% were motivated by racial bias, 17% by religious bias, 14% sexual orientation bias, 14% ethnicity bias, and 1% disability bias.
The [Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention -- aka Matthew Shepard] Act is supported by thirty-one state Attorneys General and over 210 national law enforcement, professional, education, civil rights, religious, and civic organizations, including the AFL-CIO, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the NAACP. A November 2001 poll indicated that 73% of Americans favor hate-crime legislation covering sexual orientation."*
Hate crimes are idiotic. Things that were already illegal become "super-illegal."The distinction between manslaughter and first degree murder is idiotic. Something that's illegal becomes "super-illegal."
a new presidential helicopter
"According to FBI statistics, of the over 113,000 hate crimes since 1991, 55% were motivated by racial bias, 17% by religious bias, 14% sexual orientation bias, 14% ethnicity bias, and 1% disability bias.posted by ericb at 2:08 PM on October 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
The [Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention -- aka the Matthew Shepard & James Byrd, Jr. Hates Crimes Prevention] Act is supported by thirty-one state Attorneys General and over 210 national law enforcement, professional, education, civil rights, religious, and civic organizations, including the AFL-CIO, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the NAACP. A November 2001 poll indicated that 73% of Americans favor hate-crime legislation covering sexual orientation."*
"A pack of gays dragging a 'breeder' behind a truck would be hit by this legislation just as harsh as the reverse. Before someone says that well, that doesn't happen nearly as much, so it's not really equal treatment ... think on that for a second. Maybe that's why things like this exist."posted by ericb at 2:15 PM on October 29, 2009 [4 favorites]
"The two got into a conversation with Shepard, a freshman at the University of Wyoming, told him they were gay, and invited him to ride with them. In McKinney's father's pickup, Shepard told them he had just left a planning meeting for a Gay Awareness Week celebration.The two men pretended to be gay in order to isolate a gay political activist and murder him, as a direct response to the current political event promoting gay tolerance. Terrorism seems like a good description, I think.
'Guess what—we're not gay,' McKinney said. 'This is Gay Awareness Week.' He hit the student with a stolen revolver." [cite]
“Hate crime has struck fear in communities across America. In 1995 alone, nearly 8,000 incidents nation- wide were reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI); 61 percent of those violent acts were motivated by racial bias. This fact sheet reports the experiences of one community’s battle to stop hate crime. It is based on a report submitted to the Bureau of Justice Assistance by the Sacramento Police Department as part of a grant to fund hate crime prevention efforts.”[more].
"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a 'criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties."More from the FBI:
"Investigating hate crime is the number one priority of our Civil Rights Program. Why? Not only because hate crime has a devastating impact on families and communities, but also because groups that preach hatred and intolerance plant the seeds of terrorism here in our country."More on the FBI's jurisdiction, role and how hate crimes are investigated and prosecuted.
"Investigating hate crime is the number one priority of our Civil Rights Program. Why? Not only because hate crime has a devastating impact on families and communities, but also because groups that preach hatred and intolerance plant the seeds of terrorism here in our country."posted by ericb at 2:47 PM on October 29, 2009
Random violence could happen to almost anyone, but violence that targets an individual because of their race, sexuality, gender identity and other attributes doesn't just damage that individual, it increases fear and limits the movements of others in the same group who may rightfully fear that they are also walking targets.i see two problems with this. firstly, not all groups are equally protected. if someone is targeting miami dolphin fans the offenders don't get increased punishment.
Or is it only a good argument when gay people are the victims of hate crimes?Or black people. Keep in mind that the idea of classifying 'crimes against members of groups' differently than 'crimes against individuals' has been demonized by conservatives for decades.
If you do it because he was black or she was gay or they were Israeli. How much because? There is no guide. Now, I'm not an expert on hate crimes jurisprudence in the United States. Maybe there's a significant body of law on "because." But there's significant danger of speculation on the part of the factfinder, of innuendo on the part of the prosecutor, and of overbreadth in the reading of cause.As others have noted, this is a problem with the question of motive. That doesn't dissuade us from considering motive in crimes -- unless the victim of the crime is black or gay. Then, of course, it's time to harumph about fairness and so on and so forth.
Why are some groups of people deserving of special victim status, but others are not? What is the number of murders or assaults that have to occur to a group to grant them special victim status?It's almost like you haven't paid any attention to the legislation, the thread, or the history of hate crimes in the united states.
with the exception of homelessness, every category [flarbuse] list[ed] is something the person in the non-protected category CHOSE for themselvesYou're right. Some people are just inherently evil, and can't be blamed for the sports team they root for.
that is false
Because I don't view the distinction as relevant to the conversation.On this note, you are most likely correct. However, it is undeniable that hate crime legislation exists to address a particular kind of crime: acts that target a group for intimidation by attacking a representative member of that group.
In 2006, 155 homeless people were murdered by non-homeless people. That same year, 76 people in traditional hate crimes groups were murdered.This statement has more than a bit of apples-and-oranges packed into it.
« Older Sculptor creates, copycat copies. We'll settle thi... | Average time to an MBA: 2 year... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
* U.S. House passes "hate crime" bill that Bush opposed
* House Passes Expanded Hate Crimes Bill (This is an older article that explains Republican objections to the bill.)
* Two years after son's death, mother finds solace in hate crimes bill
* Obama signs hate crimes bill
* Obama signs 'hate crimes' bill - Christian broadcasters concerned
* Hate Crimes Bill Signed Into Law 11 Years After Matthew Shepard's Death
posted by zarq at 10:01 AM on October 29, 2009 [1 favorite]