Comments on: Tell me of your homeworld, Usul

Tell me of your homeworld, Usul

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:03:19 -0800

Chris Foss concept art for Dune, with bonus Nostromo. The images were produced for Alejandro Jodorowsky's 1974 attempt at filming the story, with other artists involved including Moebius and HR Giger. Though the project failed Jodorowsky collaborated further with Moebius to lay the groundwork for his own Dune-like comicbook universe (and a trailer for an animated version of it was even created). More visions of Arrakis can be seen on this page of Dune cover artwork through the ages, with bonus midi Toto.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:10:41 -0800

Whoa. I just finished (re re re re etc) reading Dune Messiah. Nice timing.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:12:40 -0800

Sadly Youtube no longer seems to have the video of Toto playing the closing theme line, as that would have been the perfect final link.

By: dazed_one

dazed_one — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:13:39 -0800

Great images. His spaceship design, especially the paint schemes, reminds me of the ships from the video game Homeworld 2.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:18:56 -0800

Wow reading that story of the Jordorowski guy is crazy. Salvador Dali as the emperor! Demanding that he get to say what he wants and sitting on a giant toilet throne with dolphins, pee and shit. Woulda made Brando in Apocalpyse Now look like Jimmy Stewart. Movie woulda sucked though.

By: vronsky

vronsky — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:19:20 -0800

I've never read Dune, but I remember going to the midnight opening of the Lynch version and hating it. I saw it on tv last year and still pretty much disliked it, except for the surprising last half hour, when suddenly it turned into an interesting movie. This looks interesting but i would never have seen a connection to Dune unless you had told me.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:21:01 -0800

The Lynch version of Dune is a fucking abomination. So many things from the book were savagely distorted... argh. I get all ranty about this.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:22:26 -0800

Oh, and this was the cover my very battered, inherited from my dad, brown pages and tape on the cover copy of dune had. Actually it looks like Bruce Pennington did the covers for a whole bunch of books I got that way.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:23:58 -0800

The Lynch version of Dune is a fucking abomination. Fuck that noise, it was rocking. The special extended verison with the boring ass voiceover at the start is an abomination though.

By: juv3nal

juv3nal — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:23:58 -0800

Say what you want about Lynch's Dune, I still think the multiple interior pov dialogue stuff is super neat.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:26:34 -0800

Fuck that noise, it was rocking. If you had never read the books, yes.

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:32:00 -0800

I liked the David Lynch version. And yes, it did require that one read the book. And a remake? Is it really necessary? Can't they just give us something new?

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:32:02 -0800

Movie woulda sucked though. You really can get a feel fro what it would have been like from the comics, i.e. utterly mental and incoherant. If the Lynch version makes purists want to pee themselves and hide behind a Sci-Fi Channel Mini Series Event then Jordorowski would have caused their heads to explode.

By: Ratio

Ratio — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:32:18 -0800

The Lynch movie fumbled the story but absolutely nailed the imagery. I love its grotesque, bizarre aesthetic.

By: Auden

Auden — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:34:16 -0800

OK, Dune lovers; I've read Dune and Dune Messiah by this point. At what point should I get off the bus? Are all 6 of Herbert Dune's books worth it, or should I stop while I'm ahead?

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:19 -0800

The Lynch movie fumbled the story but absolutely nailed the imagery. I love its grotesque, bizarre aesthetic. Now that, I'll grant. Auden: Heretics is kind of blah. Chapterhouse is interesting because it explores the Bene Gesserit. Children is excellent, and God Emperor is fun.

By: Decimask

Decimask — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:39:49 -0800

Slight derail, but thank you for reminding about Moebius. I've been meaning to look up more of his stuff ever since I saw the pinup he did for one of the Batman Black & White trades.

By: Ratio

Ratio — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:45:33 -0800

Oh, and did someone say "abomination"? Because I'd watch the Lynch version a hundred times before I read another one of the dozens of horrid "Dune" novels that Brian Herbert's been pooping out. Argh. I get all ranty about this!

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:48:51 -0800

From Wikipedia ...$2 million of the $9.5 million budget had already been spent in pre-production, and that Jodorowsky's script would result in a 14-hour movie ("It was the size of a phonebook", Herbert later recalled).

By: SirOmega

SirOmega — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:51:17 -0800

I found the list of covers interesting. I have one of the early hardback editions of Dune. A girl I knew who was also into the series (and I think worked at a bookstore at the time) bought it for me about 9 years ago. Man I screwed that up... I think tomorrow night I'll sit down and watch the 3 hr Lynch version again. It brings back fond memories of my youth when I'd go check it out at Video Tyme and watch the 3 hr version on VHS.

By: Ratio

Ratio — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:51:49 -0800

OK, Dune lovers; I've read Dune and Dune Messiah by this point. At what point should I get off the bus? Are all 6 of Herbert Dune's books worth it, or should I stop while I'm ahead? All are fantastic. Dune Messiah is the weakest. Stay away from the Brian Herbert ones.

By: rivenwanderer

rivenwanderer — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:59:00 -0800

The creator of the excellent comics Rice Boy and Order of Tales has recently been working on some Dune-related fan art that I'm pretty fond of...

By: juv3nal

juv3nal — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:02:47 -0800

OK, Dune lovers; I've read Dune and Dune Messiah by this point. At what point should I get off the bus? Are all 6 of Herbert Dune's books worth it, or should I stop while I'm ahead? dirtynumbangelboy: Heretics is kind of blah. Chapterhouse is interesting because it explores the Bene Gesserit. Children is excellent, and God Emperor is fun. Ratio: All are fantastic. Dune Messiah is the weakest. Stay away from the Brian Herbert ones. Ha! Not much consensus here. I hated God Emperor and liked the other ones. I can totally agree on the avoid Brian Herbert note though.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:04:27 -0800

Me, I'd stick to the first, forget the rest.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:05:53 -0800

Paul Pope does Dune

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:06:34 -0800

Stay away from the Brian Herbert ones I don't understand the point of this advice. We are discussing the books of Dune, not some craptastic random-monkey typing experiment that some third-rate hack has been performing to ride on Dad's coattails.

By: idiopath

idiopath — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:11:16 -0800

Ironmouth: "Wow reading that story of the Jordorowski guy is crazy. ... Movie woulda sucked though." Jodorowski is a god and everything he touched is gold. Pistols at dawn.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:13:42 -0800

Jodorowski is a god and everything he touched is gold. Jorodowski - elephant - feral kids. Fucking awesome.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:15:31 -0800

I apologise in advance. MetaFilter: some craptastic random-monkey typing experiment that some third-rate hack has been performing to ride on Dad's coattails. Sorry.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:16:10 -0800

His spaceship design, especially the paint schemes, reminds me of the ships from the video game Homeworld 2. Which was inspired by the Terran Trade Authority books.

By: kmz

kmz — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:20:34 -0800

I love the original books (ignoring entirely the new pro fanfic) and still like Lynch's Dune, but understanding that it's something very different from the book. The Sci-Fi channel minis were OK, but not great. And the Bene Gesserit can kick the ass of any sci-fi religious order. I'm looking at you, Jedis. Granny Weatherwax would still beat them all though.

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:27:47 -0800

I remember Jodorowsky telling a story about going to see Lynch's Dune when it opened, somewhat resentful that the project had finally been pulled off. His depression rapidly turned to glee however when he saw what a mess Lynch had made of the story. I can't remember whether I read the book before I saw the movie or not, but I did see it when it first came out, and I certainly enjoyed the imagery if nothing else - huge sandworms, floating Baron Harkonen with the bad skin condition, that freaky looking guild navigator in the tank... lots of great stuff to look at.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:30:07 -0800

I've said this before, but Brian Herbert couldn't disrespect the memory of his father more if he went to his grave, lowered his pants and plowed the dirt.

By: ooga_booga

ooga_booga — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:35:45 -0800

Obligatory Dune Special Re-Edit link.

By: ooga_booga

ooga_booga — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:52:46 -0800

I was recently thinking of these coffee table art books that my older brother used to have when I was a kid. I spent innumerable hours poring over their pages which were filled with glossy '70s-era science fiction imagery. Chris Foss's art seems so familiar and so distinctly of the same style that I would swear that some of his stuff was in those books, but this gallery of his art doesn't show any images which seem familiar to me except for the Asimov robot covers. Someday I hope to run across these books again, but for the moment I'm still stymied.

By: sleeping bear

sleeping bear — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:06:02 -0800

Of relevance to this (and specifically related to artw's Paul Pope does Dune link): dharbin's cartoonist-heavy Dune Book Club.

By: killdevil

killdevil — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:17:19 -0800

Is this a good time to mention that Paramount is trying to sign Neill Blomkamp to direct a new $200 million Dune movie? 'Cause I'm pretty enthusiastic about the possibilities there.

By: kid ichorous

kid ichorous — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:28:09 -0800

Though I'm not really inclined to fight about the degree to which the different movies diverged from source, I am weirdly adamant about including House Ordos in the Dune universe. Westwood's Dune 2 was my first Dune.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:29:16 -0800

Me, I'd stick to the first, forget the rest. Same here. He starts repeating himself by the third book.

By: rifflesby

rifflesby — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:32:49 -0800

Ha! Not much consensus here. I hated God Emperor and liked the other ones. Heh, and as for me, Dune and God Emperor are the only two I really like; the rest of them are kinda meh. So yeah, not much consensus. Auden: looks like the best recommendation is to read all 6, and decide for yourself which ones are worth re-reading the second time around.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:05:23 -0800

At the end of film, the wife of the Count Fenring leaps towards Paul, who has already become Fremen, and she slices his throat. Paul while dying says: "Too late, one cannot kill me... because... - Because, Jessica with the voice of Paul continues, to kill the Kwisatz Haderach, you would have to also have killed me... "And each Fremen, each Atreides speaks now with the voice of Paul: "I am the collective man. He who shows the way " Reality changes quickly. Three columns of light spout out of the planet. They mix. Plunge in the sand of planet: "I am the Earth which awaits the seed!" the spice is desiccated. The ground trembles. Water drops form a pillar surrounded by fire. And then Paul gets back up and he's alive and all like "Wazzzzup Fremen? Suck it Harkonens!" And then shoots his lazers pew-pew-pachoo! I mean WTF Jodorowsky? I think someone is going to have to put in some hard work to come up something better than what Lynch made.

By: Limiter

Limiter — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:03:22 -0800

Lynch's Dune was one of the greatest movies ever made, if only because you get to see Sting stabbed in the throat. Would Jodorowsky's version have had that? Nooooooo.

By: kuatto

kuatto — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:47:49 -0800

Per Artw: The Dune closing theme The Dune closing theme The Dune closing theme

By: rodgerd

rodgerd — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:51:01 -0800

The Lynch movie fumbled the story but absolutely nailed the imagery. I love its grotesque, bizarre aesthetic. This. I haven't seen the miniseries, but I've looked at a bunch of the imagery and "what did they change" summaries online, and I'm really dissapointed that they seem to have kept more of the story but completely ditched the good thing about Lynch's work, which is that he nailed the aesthetics of so much of the Dune Universe. All you really would need to have done is pick up the design of Lynch's Dune and kept the original story and you'd have gold.

By: WidgetAlley

WidgetAlley — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:02:59 -0800

I may not be entitled to an opinion, considering I have read only the first book and not seen any of the movies, but I always envisioned Arrakis and the world of Dune in general in a much less classical science-fiction way, and a much more "otherworldly land we have not yet explored" way-- a design aesthetic more similar to the feeling people must have gotten the first time they read Herodotus' Histories and went, "Wait, what the fuck is out there?" This of course is entirely personal preference and part of the magic of books, but I can say that even Giger's sketches (and I usually quite like Giger) didn't really do it for me here. I would be much more receptive to something more in keeping with Nicholas Roerich's subtly surreal paintings of Tibet.

By: dhalgren

dhalgren — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:20:13 -0800

ooga_booga: See Cool Papa Bell's comment. Those books were probably the Terran Trade Authority books, which have a lot of art by Chris Foss. I found a copy of "Spacecraft 2000 to 2100 AD" that someone was throwing out when I was around 10 years old. I spent a lot of time poring over the pictures in that book, and it's still one of my favorite books to browse through. Chris Foss has such a distinctive style that as soon as I started playing Homeworld, I knew what they had used for their inspiration. At least one of the ships in that game is taken directly from my book. I am glad that Jodorowsky never got to make this version, because it sounds to me like it would have been terrible. I would have really liked to see Foss, Moebius, and Giger work on the same film though. I can't imagine how three artists with such unique and recognizable styles could be combined into a cohesive whole. Imagining Foss-designed spaceships, with interiors like the Alien mothership, populated by people dressed like they are actors in The Fifth Element is a little disconcerting.

By: Grangousier

Grangousier — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:22:59 -0800

I'm prone to repeat this: David Lynch's Dune is the only film ever made in which a bunch of people in rubber suits ride a giant penis across a desert. It has to be worth it just for that. (That said, I do love that film, and would rather like to see the version Lynch threatened to make once, that took all the expository stuff out and put more mad imagery in, until it was a colour, very expensive, version of Eraserhead. I'd love that even more.)

By: miss tea

miss tea — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:12:41 -0800

I really don't like those paintings. They don't represent the Dune aesthetic to me, at all. I read all of the books before I saw the Lynch version. Sure, parts of it are ridiculous, and the story fouled up, but I have always felt that visually and emotionally Lynch really got Dune the way nobody else has.

By: stevil

stevil — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:13:25 -0800

I encourage readers of any parts of the series to read Doon. Heady stuff.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:01:24 -0800

Imagining Foss-designed spaceships, with interiors like the Alien mothership, populated by people dressed like they are actors in The Fifth Element is a little ~~disconcerting~~ AWESOME. FTFY.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:26:48 -0800

I would have really liked to see Foss, Moebius, and Giger work on the same film though. As a kid I used to have this great book on the making of Alien. Tons of art by Foss, Moebius, and Giger. I probably memorised that book long before I saw the actual film.

By: Henry C. Mabuse

Henry C. Mabuse — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:37:21 -0800

These Foss designs were published over 20 years ago in one of his books, I think it was '21st Century Foss'. His designs for Jodorowsky's abortive project are well known.

By: ovvl

ovvl — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:52:44 -0800

Makes me want to dig up some old issues of Omni.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:18:25 -0800

Actually it looks like Bruce Pennington did the covers for a whole bunch of books I got that way. Oi! io9! You buggers!

By: Bron

Bron — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:26:17 -0800

What, no love here for John Schoenherr? As the PulpHope link mentions, "Frank Herbert said that of all the visual depictions of his ideas, Schoenherr's work was closest to the way Dune's people and things looked in his own mind." He had a great, mysterious quality to his Dune paintings. But maybe I just like his vision for Dune because it was the first one I was exposed to. Boy, did I not care for most of the concept design of Lynch's version -- the ornithopter in particular looked like something put together by the soapbox derby division of the local Scout troop.

By: Nelson

Nelson — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:28:51 -0800

I unironically love Lynch's Dune. Even the longer cuts, the 3.5 hour ones, although it does take a lot of fortitude to make them through. His film is underappreciated for the artistic vision, the set design, the costuming. I also like the pacing and narrative structure. It's a bit odd, a bit lumbering, but then again so's the novel the movie is based on. Also so many great visual moments, little vignettes. Compare Lynch's film to the Sci-Fi miniseries a few years ago. That was pretty good, but so hollow. Lynch's film is epic. There's no way any movie of Dune would have satisfied everyone, but I think Lynch's film stands well on its own. It's real weakness isn't that the Herbert fan-boys don't like it, but rather that the viewing public didn't because it was too complicated. That's too bad. All that being said, the lost Jodorowsky Dune would have been fucking epic. Batshit insane film maker would be perfect for bringing out the batshit insane aspects of the Dune story. But you think the Lynch film was tough to follow? Heh. I can't wait to see what a hash they make out of Foundation.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:35:30 -0800

FWIW Ten year old me had no problem following the film whatsoever, though was very annoyed with the rain at the end.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:06 -0800

I can't wait to see what a hash they make out of Foundation. Where is a rampaging Fremen horde when you need one?

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:43:07 -0800

Hari Seldon, played by Will Smith, uses his laws of Psychohistory to predict the fate of the Galactic Empire: "Aw hell no!"

By: stinkycheese

stinkycheese — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:56:18 -0800

Don't forget that the music in Jodorowsky's version was to be handled by Pink Floyd (handling House Atreides) and Magma (handling House Harkonen); that's enough right there to make me very sad it never happened, visual design aside.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:13:32 -0800

All you really would need to have done is pick up the design of Lynch's Dune and kept the original story and you'd have gold. Lynch's DUNE failed for all the reasons that Peter Jackson's take on Lord of the Rings did not. That is, they took a long, complex, epic story and tried to jam it into a standard feature film form. Never had a chance. Yes, Lynch utterly nailed a look and feel for it without being even remotely hackneyed or predictable (the Spacing Guild anyone?) but that story required at least six hours of screen time to do it any justice. More likely, nine. As for other Dune books. I read the first, LOVED it once I cleared the first hundred pages, skipped MESSIAH because I was warned off it, read CHILDREN OF DUNE and thought, good but nowhere near DUNE itself, never bothered with anything else. Got into Philip K Dick instead. No regrets there.

By: Dr. Zira

Dr. Zira — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:31:59 -0800

Team Kwisatz Haderach!

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:09:54 -0800

God the Lord of the Rings films bored the ass off of me.

By: equalpants

equalpants — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:27:31 -0800

I just dragged my wife to see Lynch's movie on the big screen a couple weeks ago. I thought it was both better and worse than I remembered. It's perfectly fine right up until Paul and Jessica meet Stilgar and company in the desert, then it just totally falls apart. The pacing just disappears--for the next 30-40 minutes or whatever it is, things just start happening out of nowhere. Paul's voiceover tells us that now he has to ride the worm (which is the first we've heard of anybody riding worms), and so he rides the worm. Paul's voiceover tells us that now it's time to take the water of life, and so he does that. And, man, Lynch cannot direct an action scene. The whole final battle is just Paul and Gurney and Stilgar sitting on top of the worm shooting lasers at people for like two minutes, and then suddenly they've won, apparently. But the Harkonnens are pure over-the-top awesomeness. That first scene of theirs is just amazing, how the craziness keeps building and building, and everyone's got these outrageous shit-eating grins for no reason, and then the Baron takes off and flies around the room! And Brad Dourif is fantastic. Too bad he dies so quickly.

By: vronsky

vronsky — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:49:55 -0800

Yeah I would rather watch Dune 10 times in a row rather than sit through those Lord Of The Rings movies. (never a Tolkien fan, but I was amazed at how much I enjoyed the BBC radio version -- with Ian Holm and Bill Nighy -- in the '80s)

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:52:27 -0800

equalpants describes the movie pretty much as I remember it. The Fremen don't work ... the actor who plays Stilgar, so great as Big Ed, it totally unbelievable as an alien warrior, just like Harvey Keitel was so unbelievable as an Apostle.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:54:32 -0800

To be fair I never liked the books either. Now, The Hobbit I did like, but I fear it's going to be all Lord of the Rings-ed up for the movie. No offense to Del Toro, and I don't begrudge him the shit-ton of money he's likely to make, but I'd sooner he take a vow of poverty and make Mountains of Madness because thats the movie he was clearly put on earth to do.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:56:31 -0800

...and I'd sooner Neill Blomkamp just kept coming up with stuff that was entirely his own as well.

By: WPW

WPW — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:09:57 -0800

I saw the film Dune before I read the book. It had an enormous effect on me - the imagery was so intoxicating, so rich, it did a brilliant job of suggesting an entire alternative civilisation. I think it's an amazing film, with the possible exception of the "everyone stands around deciding things" ending. Even though I hadn't read it, I held the book in high regard, because I had heard that the film was commonly considered a travesty. When I read the book, my initial reaction was disappointment. What, no conference between the Guild Navigator and the Emperor? Giedi Prime is more Ben Hur than Tim Burton? And the interminable chitchat about ecology and mysticism, it's like Ayn Rand channelling James Lovelock. Once I had recovered from my shock that some of my favourite bits of the film were absent from the book, I came to love it, and my love for Lynch's Dune has if anything increased, because I see how much of it was an original vision, not an attempt to render Herbert's vision. I can easily see how someone who loved the books first might hate the film, but I suggest seeing them as an independent creation rather than a mutation.

By: cazoo

cazoo — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:21:06 -0800

I saw the Lynch version in the theater in Times Square and they gave out a free booklet so you could follow the story. I thought it was intended for people not familiar with the novel (maybe all the Sting fans). I realized later it was for everyone.

By: Mr. Bad Example

Mr. Bad Example — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:52:12 -0800

Hari Seldon, played by Will Smith, uses his laws of Psychohistory to predict the fate of the Galactic Empire: "Aw hell no!" Shut up shut up don't give them ideas

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:08:37 -0800

But I didn't even get to the motorcycle chase!

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:13:43 -0800

ummm ... to clarify. This thread seems to have reached consensus that DUNE (the David Lynch directed movie) is better (maybe by a factor of ten) than LORD OF THE RINGS (the Peter Jackson directed movies). What a dumb thread.

By: vronsky

vronsky — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:46:05 -0800

They weren't the worst things I've ever seen philip, there was maybe an hours worth of interest in the 9 hour cycle. But the CGI became so boring and lifeless and there were these loooong scenes of elves and orks marching through New Zealand (and that is what it always looked like - actors in bad makeup walking through the New Zealand forest - I mean fuck me, it might as well have been an ad for the tourism council - it certainly didn't look like any middle earth I would imagine) that you could never get to the point of suspending disbelief. Parts were so bad I thought they looked like an episode of Xena warrior princess. Look, I'm not immune to the genre, I remember being transported by Terry Brook's Sword of Shannara (which is basically a Tolkien knock-off iirc) when I was 13 or so, but even young me would have been bored silly by the Jackson films.

By: graymouser

graymouser — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:35:20 -0800

Except for some key problems - like totally missing the point of the weirding way, which was a failure to comprehend the concept and a poorly executed alternative - the Lynch Dune did a very good job of realizing a number of scenes from the book. Unfortunately it has no internal coherency as a film, because it's not a story so much as a highlight reel from a hypothetical six-hour film of Dune. (The Sci Fi miniseries, otoh, managed to be simply banal.) Jodorowsky's Dune was a totally different story for me, though. I discovered the sites about it either at the end of high school or the beginning of college, and I was rapt in attention at the hints - the images from Foss, Moebius and Giger that got preserved, not to mention Jodo's own exposition on his crusade to make a film out of Dune. Made me a fan of his other work, which never quite got to the rapturous heights of the surreal he wanted to reach in his Dune. It isn't that I think it would have been any kind of faithful adaptation, the detail is way too far-out for that. It was the fluid way he poured his own weird obsessions into the vessel of this novel, heaping esoteric mysticism and surrealism and multiple overlapping artistic visions into it. The core, the messianic story Herbert was telling, was a sort of jumping-off point for Jodorowsky to create this unique and totally different thing from what we understand as a science fiction film. The artistry involved (Dali! Pink Floyd! Giger!) would have doubtless been stunning. It could never have been a well-done or coherent film, but even if the whole thing blew up it would've been beautiful to get some of it on celluloid.

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:09:25 -0800

Chris Foss has such a distinctive style that as soon as I started playing Homeworld, I knew what they had used for their inspiration. At least one of the ships in that game is taken directly from my book. Actually, the Homeworld ships were inspired by the work of both Foss and Peter Elson, like so. There's a character named Peter Elson in the game. I treasure my copy of Spacecraft 2000-2100. I'm now on a quest to find Spacewreck.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:25:45 -0800

I am glad that Jodorowsky never got to make this version, because it sounds to me like it would have been terrible If the biggest complain about Lynch's Dune is that it deviates from the story, my god, Jodorowsky would be crucified by this crowd if he ever made this movie. Ignoring his 70 pop-art aesthetic *shudder* there's no chance someone with his reputation would have delivered a serious Dune movie. At best it would be The Holy Mountain in stillsuits. Fun perhaps, but something tells me the angry aspie crowd would go apeshit when Feyd starts giving the Baron a three minute close-up blowjob with a climatic spitting of bloody Harkonen semen onto the screen. I love the Lynch version. Yes its flawed, but its a flawed masterpiece. Its so close to being a proper epic its maddening to think if things were slightly different it would have been the Star Wars of the 1980s. Imagine stillsuit halloween costumes, weird middle age guys quoting it like the Bible, late night pretenious conversations about ecology and our place in the universe, etc. Instead we guys who do perfect Yoda impressions and the bland sci-fi Dune miniseries.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:33:07 -0800

I almost forgot. Ive read the Incal comics. Lots of meh there. Without the shocking surreal film visuals, Jodorowsky's shtick wears thin pretty quickly.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:45:57 -0800

This thread gives hours of enjoyment. vronsky: "I remember being transported by Terry Brook's Sword of Shannara (which is basically a Tolkien knock-off iirc) when I was 13" This appears to be in support of the Tolkien and Jackson suck perspective, which, uh, um, OK, Terry Brooks is surely a representative of a hackish retread approach but i have a hard time seeing how Brooks' work can be used as a yardstick to apply to either Tolkien or Jackson's stuff. Artw, I swear I will finagle Brian Herbert to to the next MeFi meetup just for the lulz. I may be lying. Alien is as close as we will ever get to Jodorowsky's Dune, I think. I heartily concur that Jodorowsky's Dune appears to be a complete, fucked-up, insane mess. I can think of no film which embodies those characteristics which I have seen which I do not dig (I have not seen, for example, Salo, but I have seen, and deeply admire, Jodorowsky's other films). Lynch's film falls short mostly in that he appears to have lost the gumption to resist his investors' demand for an intelligible reinterpretation of the best sellers, and his solutions transparently betray his lack of passion (the voiceovers). I always thought that circa 1978-1980 Derek Jarman would have been a great director for Dune, as well.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:47:34 -0800

damn dirty ape: "when Feyd starts giving the Baron a three minute close-up blowjob with a climatic spitting of bloody Harkonen semen onto the screen." But here is where the true potential beauty of the hypothetical film lies, surely.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:49:34 -0800

damn dirty ape: "weird middle age guys quoting it like the Bible" I have never done no such thing. Also, yeah, with you on the Incal, too bland and new-age to really be of interest. Glad to have 'em though.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:55:09 -0800

oh, and one last recycled bon mot: I once told a pal I knew the best Dune film that would ever be made, and so did he: Lawrence of Arabia. Lawrence appears to me to be the actual catalyst for Herbert's books, and, well, yeah, it's a great film. Watch it with Dune in mind sometime.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:02:25 -0800

Jodorowsky's comics stuff gets a lot more insane and baroque with Metabarons, if The Incal is too wussy for you. No Moebius, but nice art by Juan Gimenez.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:04:45 -0800

And while the Dune influence is clear, Jorodowsky's never really gone for the Lawrence of Arabia desert and sandworms stuff Dune is more know for - he's definately way more into the galactic empires and general wagnerian space opera aspect of it.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:37:04 -0800

I have some of that Metabarons stuff, too, Artw. Despite what I read as an editorial effort to get Jodo's spine and cock stiffened up for the run, it didn't strike me as up to the level of his flicks. but then, what could?

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:38:46 -0800

That said, I am a distinct fan of Juan Gimenez.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:42:20 -0800

There's, like, a serious mutilation every five pages - what more do you want?

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:46:56 -0800

oh, semi-coherent translation?

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:50:25 -0800

Pff. I first read it in French. I don't even speak french! It was still great.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:53:31 -0800

not that that's a determinant factor for this genre or set of creators by any means. what I recall most distinctly was that sense of holes in the story, whoch would stand to reason, as if Jodo had planned X pages but the publisher had determined that they could only pay Gimenez for the action sequences and between that and who knows how many layers of translation the connective tissue was cut. This is surely a functional description of the editorial process at Heavy Metal USA in 1975, btw, so it's not like great stuff can't come out of the licensing-and-translation meatgrinder. Those incoherent translations were the best.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:54:23 -0800

Artw: "Pff. I first read it in French. I don't even speak french! It was still great." Right! So we agree then. Ish.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:57:55 -0800

Also, I've only seen the US versions, and it would surprise me not at all to hear they just cut pages to shorten it to 32 pp and to save on translations. As I recall, it was a spinoff-but-indy house originating with NBM and launching with the title, so presumably short of shekels. But I've hijacked the thread. We truly must grab a beer at some point.

By: Henry C. Mabuse

Henry C. Mabuse — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:49:06 -0800

Lynch didn't change the weirding way because he didn't comprehend it - he thought that a thousand stillsuit-wearing dueds going ninja on the Sardaukar would not be cool on screen. The fool.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:11:10 -0800

Also, I've only seen the US versions, and it would surprise me not at all to hear they just cut pages to shorten it to 32 pp and to save on translations. I've got some TPB in english which I think predate the DC/Humanoids verison - not aware of any content differences, though I suspect on closer inspection the DC ones would be missing le boobies (which are of course a serious moral scourge, unlike decapitation and such). We truly must grab a beer at some point. Indeed. Also there needs to be a Seattle meet-up I can actually get to.

By: Bageena

Bageena — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:01:26 -0800

Viva la Sting!

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:07:12 -0800

I'd love to see Dune being remade. A bunch of fedaykin fellas wearing black jumping out of the sand to kill technologically superior Imperialistic enemies in a guerilla warfare in a dispute over precious ~~oil~~ spice. That'd go down a treat with the movie going public. For bonus points, have everyone keep referring to the Mahdi and using other cod-Arabic language. Make them Persian looking too. Have the Fremen refer to the Sunni Islam aspects of the Orange Catholic bible. I can see the queues from here. On the off chance that anyone can look past the staggeringly obvious, I vote for Sayoc Kali as the basis of the wierding way. No wire-work either. They're badasses dammit, not magical space-pixies with knives. Also, I foresee a Blue-in-Bluray Collectors Edition with free contacts and a working gom jabbar.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:26:32 -0800

Moebius on a Cintiq - the Cintiq seems to be becoming the tool of choice for comics artists doing linework.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:10:12 -0800

That's awesome, Art. I have an older midsize Wacom (ADB, so RIP) and a tiny newer one - the direct connection of 'nib' to image makes a distinct difference. I still haven't ever used a digitizer that satisfies like a real nib, though. That may be a function of my tablet budget. ;)