Can't we all just get along?
November 24, 2009 2:38 PM   Subscribe

Amy Alkon: "Parents don't have a right to get on a jet with unruly children. In fact, they're stealing from the rest of us." Holiday air travel. What a joy. What is a parent with a small child to do? Walk? Should an airline try to accommodate other passengers and their own crew and shouldn't an airline do something other than simply kick off the parent and her child?
posted by VikingSword (43 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: This is a bit bloggy/editorial for a front page post. -- cortex



 
Narcotics. Works for pets.
posted by indyz at 2:41 PM on November 24, 2009


Man, has Amy Alkon ever brought good into the world.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:42 PM on November 24, 2009


do we have to have another childfree vs. parents post? really?
posted by pinky at 2:43 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


Two words:

"Compulsory Valium".

Thank you. Next up: World peace in 15 nukes or less.
posted by pla at 2:44 PM on November 24, 2009 [1 favorite]


Any time a parent won't pick up a crying infant from a lap or car seat assuming it's a safe point in the flight, and walk it a bit to soothe it, and instead ignores it or whispers to it trying to quiet it - that parent needs a glassing.

Otherwise, complaining about babies on flights should get you tasered.
posted by docpops at 2:44 PM on November 24, 2009 [3 favorites]


Ah, sorry 'bout that, Indyz - I see that you beat me to it, at least in spirit.
posted by pla at 2:44 PM on November 24, 2009


Fat babies should be required to purchase two seats.
posted by found missing at 2:45 PM on November 24, 2009 [7 favorites]


Plus - people on Southwest complaining? That's like complaining about the service at a condemned Applebees.
posted by docpops at 2:45 PM on November 24, 2009 [5 favorites]


Amy Alkon doesn't have the right to get on a jet with unruly children.
posted by boo_radley at 2:46 PM on November 24, 2009 [1 favorite]


What I've often wondered is why Southwest or another carrier doesn't take advantage of this issue, and start offering "family flights" on a few of their long-distance routes, where the entire plane is oriented towards families flying with children.
posted by scrump at 2:46 PM on November 24, 2009 [5 favorites]


The basic contract between passenger and airline seems to be that the airline will get the passenger to his or her destination safely and in a vaguely timely manner, and will provide a bathroom.

Anything beyond that (like peace and quiet, or seat neighbors who don't stink) is great, but it's not the airline's obligation. If you want more than that, fly first class.
posted by gurple at 2:47 PM on November 24, 2009 [5 favorites]


Everybody I don't like (on an airplane or in life in general) is an imposition and should get the fuck out of my way. They are stealing from me.
posted by Seamus at 2:47 PM on November 24, 2009 [3 favorites]


Some of the worst flights I've ever taken are those in less developed countries. I can't tell you how many times I've experienced a child standing on his/her seat during takeoff. The attendant comes over and asks the parents to buckle their kid up. Within seconds, the child is back on its feet - looking out the window, jumping up and down... and the parents almost always concede because they fear their own child, and they haven't set any boundaries. Rich kids in poor countries. Ugh.
posted by gman at 2:47 PM on November 24, 2009


Well, clearly nobody should be flying with their emergency Xanax anyways, right??
posted by dnesan at 2:47 PM on November 24, 2009


dammit, without their emergency xanax.
posted by dnesan at 2:48 PM on November 24, 2009


Narcotics.

I've often had that thought cross my mind, something like this:

Flintstones Children's Chewable Valium -- now in amazing cherry flavour!
posted by bwg at 2:49 PM on November 24, 2009


You could just check them in your baggage.
posted by Talez at 2:49 PM on November 24, 2009


Scrump, ever been on a flight into SLC?

Crying kids don't bother me and I happily direct single parents with multiple kids to sit next to me. However, some of the suits flying there to do business really hate those flights. Daytime flights into SLC are sometimes ~50% under-15.
posted by Seamus at 2:49 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


What is a parent with a small child to do? Walk?

Or drive. Or take the train. Or take the bus. Or do more to prepare their child for flying.

Passengers that are bothered by screaming children should bring ear plugs, in-ear headphones, drugs, whatever they need to get through the flight.

On the other hand, parents of screaming children should grin and bear it when other passengers give them the gaze of death.

It would be nice if carriers that run several flights a day for a given route would mark one as 13 & up or something. I know there have been certain flights where I would gladly have paid a premium not to have to deal with screaming or unruly kids.
posted by jedicus at 2:50 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


Maybe Amy Alkon should consider making a citizen's arrest.
posted by kylej at 2:50 PM on November 24, 2009


What is a parent with a small child to do? Walk?

Whatever one's position, it's not a great idea for an FPP to editorialize with rhetorical sarcasm. The fact of the matter is, there was a period of time within living memory when most people did not use air travel, and somehow families managed to not totally self-destruct.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:51 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


Let's imagine that an adult screamed throughout most of the flight, kicked the backs of the seats, stood up and threw food at the fellow passengers and behaved like a unruly child. Even if that adult was developmentally disabled and their caretaker was unsuccessful in keeping them under control, any airline and any flight attendant would be well within their rights to remove that individual.

I've seen drunks denied the ability to fly because they would be disruptive and dangerous.

Why can't we expect children to behave slightly better than a drunk? I'm not saying every child in the world should never be allowed to fly, but by gum, why can't they be removed if they are significantly unruly?
posted by teleri025 at 2:51 PM on November 24, 2009 [7 favorites]


"Compulsory Valium".

Completely agree.

For the whiney adults.
posted by Artw at 2:52 PM on November 24, 2009 [3 favorites]


What is a parent with a small child to do? Walk?

You could just check them in your baggage. Seems to work with everything else.
posted by Talez at 2:52 PM on November 24, 2009


Alkon is right about one thing: it's not natural or reasonable to expect a young child to do well "in a crowded metal tube with hundreds of people," nor is it fair to put those people in a position where they "can't escape his screams except by throwing themselves to their deaths at 30,000 feet."

Jokes about narcotics aside, parents who choose to travel on a plane with children should take reasonable precautions in case their "distract with toys and feed 'em" plan doesn't work out. Is there any reason why they can't have a supply of over-the-counter children's benadryl on hand as a backup plan?
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 2:54 PM on November 24, 2009


I too have been blackballed by the 'Mommy Mafia', Ms. Alkon. Don't ask why I'm not welcome at the local Baby Gap anymore.
posted by cgomez at 2:55 PM on November 24, 2009


Also, Amy Alkon sounds like a childish idiot in that essay. I look forward to her follow-up essay "Every stupid fucking thing I wrote about parenting before I had kids was as useless as a shit-filled diaper".
posted by docpops at 2:56 PM on November 24, 2009 [8 favorites]


It wasn't a crying baby. It was a yelling screaming bratty-acting 2 year old.
2 year olds are old enough to be taught how to keep their voices down. They are actually relatively easy to discipline and control, it you have paid any attention to it at all.

The lesson in tossing them off was to his mother. She needs to raise a human being who can get along in the world.
posted by SLC Mom at 2:57 PM on November 24, 2009 [3 favorites]


who acts in a manner that I don't like

No one should be expected to tolerate drunks harassing the airline staff or other passengers, for example. Reducing this to "acting in a manner I don't like" is a bit too simplistic. It's reasonable to expect people — including parents of children — to behave and treat each other with courtesy and respect, when sharing a cramped space for a few hours. An unruly child is really a child's parents treating the rest of the passengers with contempt.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:58 PM on November 24, 2009 [3 favorites]


Jokes about narcotics aside, parents who choose to travel on a plane with children should take reasonable precautions in case their "distract with toys and feed 'em" plan doesn't work out.

Pretty sure that those parents would be all ears for any suggestions you might have, and in fact may have already done some serious thinking on that matter.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


I would like valium on any flight over 2 hours in duration, children or no children. With one of those wee bottles of vodka.
posted by everichon at 2:58 PM on November 24, 2009


What I've often wondered is why Southwest or another carrier doesn't take advantage of this issue, and start offering "family flights" on a few of their long-distance routes, where the entire plane is oriented towards families flying with children.

Ahhh, the great chickenpox party at 30,000 feet.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:59 PM on November 24, 2009


Had one of these on a flight in front of me a few weeks ago. I turned to the woman sitting next to me and muttered, conspiratorially, "this is why they invented benadryl." Her horrified look let me know that she was not, alas, a member of my conspiracy.
posted by felix betachat at 2:59 PM on November 24, 2009


Why can't we expect children to behave slightly better than a drunk?

You seriously don't see the difference? One, the drunk, has moral agency and is responsible for his or her actions. The other one, the baby, does not have moral agency and is not responsible for his or her actions. Why don't we let babies sign contracts too!

Listen, I live in Park Slope so I get a face full of overentitled babies everyday of the week, which means I am not a big fan of babies for the most part, but even I think that Amy Alkon is being ridiculous. Part of living in the world and venturing out into the public square is having to put up with things you don't like or find annoying. It is not people "stealing" from you, it is "life."
posted by Falconetti at 3:00 PM on November 24, 2009 [4 favorites]


She sounds like a fun lady.
Probably not the most popular house on Halloween.
posted by chococat at 3:00 PM on November 24, 2009 [1 favorite]


An unruly child is really a child's parents treating the rest of the passengers with contempt.

um, what? How exactly?
posted by Artw at 3:00 PM on November 24, 2009 [2 favorites]


Is there any reason why they can't have a supply of over-the-counter children's benadryl on hand as a backup plan?
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 2:54 PM on November 24 [+] [!]


Lots of kids get irritable or wired on Benadryl. Some of the littler ones, under a year, occasionally die.

Once you have had a kid, every other kid on a plane looks like some awful, terrible sisyphean burden that you will not be expected to take care of. You will be more likely to view it with pity and empathy than derision.

Two days ago I was on a full flight on Southwest full of kids. But the old lady next to me that reeked of perfume, the jackass in front of me that made the flight attendant interrupt her safety speech to tell her to hang up her cell phone, the two rows of adolescent tweeners screaming in their pajamas and cheeto stained undershirts - now those folks were the one's who should know better.
posted by docpops at 3:01 PM on November 24, 2009 [6 favorites]


hahahaha, these people are only complaining because air travel is so fucking cheap everyone can do it, including the complainers who think they're above being socially irritating. let's go back to the days when nobody except the rich and corporate types could fly and everyone else had to take the Greyhound. that'd give 'em something to cry about...

(speaking as a person who's logged over 10,000 miles on the 'dog in my time, I've got stories that would curl. your. hair. I'll see your screaming children and raise you a paranoid schizophrenic with a bleach bottle full of homemade white lightning, sprawled across two seats yodeling, "Whooaaaaa! We're speeding uuuuuup!! Whooooaaaaaaaa! and don't get me started on the lavatory that somebody fouled in Hartford, and we didn't get a new bus until Tulsa.)

so, back to the topic, what does your airline ticket buy you, other than x number of cubic feet for your seat, carry-on and checked bag, and a guarantee of physically safe (and possibly, but not guaranteed, timely) transit from point A to point B? are you promised enjoyment? quiet? solicitude? or are these things merely implied, sort of like in automotive and beer advertisements?
posted by toodleydoodley at 3:01 PM on November 24, 2009 [8 favorites]


You could just check them in your baggage.

At $10 for the first kid and $25 for the second?
No way, they're totally going in the overhead bin!
posted by madajb at 3:01 PM on November 24, 2009 [1 favorite]


Artw : Completely agree. For the whiney adults.

Hey, that works for me juuuuust fine. Give the screaming brat and me a good dose, and we'll have a race to see whether it shuts up or I stop caring first.

Seems like a win either way. :)
posted by pla at 3:02 PM on November 24, 2009 [1 favorite]


d'oh! what gurple (and several others) said.
posted by toodleydoodley at 3:02 PM on November 24, 2009


On the one hand, a screaming/shouting/etc kid is something you have to expect when you're taking a plane. It's a variety of "out in public" that's open to all, and air travel is in the US the only reasonable way to do lots of trips. Complaining about a screaming kid on a plane is more like complaining about a screaming kid on the National Mall than it's like complaining about a screaming kid at Chez Fancypants, The World's Most Grown-Up Restaurant.

On the other hand, it's a great big world and there are enough little kids in it that you'll see kids four and five and six sigmas away from the average kid. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that there are a few kids whose screaming is so loud that they pose a nominal safety hazard, as in this case where it's asserted that cabin announcements couldn't be heard over the kid. And there are surely more (but still a few) kids whose screaming is, while not even theoretically hazardous, so much louder or shrill or whatever than a common or garden variety child's that it becomes unreasonable.

In which case, most crying/screaming/shouting kids you just suck it up and deal with, but that doesn't mean that the occasional freakishly loud kid (and his parents) can't be booted from a flight.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:02 PM on November 24, 2009




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