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The Big Chill
January 7, 2010 10:15 AM   Subscribe

What Britain looks like without the Gulf Stream.
posted by Artw (134 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

 
But it's cold outside! Therefore, there's no global warming QED.
posted by Eideteker at 10:17 AM on January 7, 2010


Exscuse me, "climate change"
posted by Eideteker at 10:18 AM on January 7, 2010


So what you are saying is that the UK should be paying "warmth tax" to the countries around the Gulf of Mexico?
posted by DU at 10:19 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


I like Ireland cheekily revealing some glimpses of green through the clouds.
posted by dng at 10:22 AM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]


It's certainly been a cold winter there, and I've certainly been kept up to date with every single incidence of wintery weather from friends and relatives.
posted by ob at 10:22 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


So... is there a Pacific Ocean equivalent to the Gulf Stream? I mean, obviously there's no land mass nearby for it to warm, as the Pacific is so much further across, but is there a similar mid-ocean current of warm water which stretches east and north from the tropics around SE Asia?
posted by hippybear at 10:22 AM on January 7, 2010


Interesting post. It seemed a little weird (to the point of cognitive dissonance) that there have been no stories about how Britain's recent cold snap might resemble what things would look like if the "Atlantic Conveyor" stopped functioning due to climate change.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:23 AM on January 7, 2010 [6 favorites]


"And when I've seen all's well from from castle here to lighthouse there, and listened to battles of gunfires in the plunge off Firth, and bagpiped round Scotland with a sour mean pipe, in each New Year's week, Sam, I'll scull back down-Thames and there each December 31st to the end of my life, the night watchman of London, meaning me, yes, me will make his clock rounds and say out the bells of the old rhymed churches. Orange and lemons say the bells of St. Clemens. Bow bells. St. Marguerite's. Paul's. I shall dance rope-ends for you, Sam, and hope the cold wind blown south to warm wind wherever you are stirs some small gray hairs in your sunburned hears."

"I'll be listening, Harry."

posted by jquinby at 10:24 AM on January 7, 2010


OMG BRITAIN IS SO HORRIFICALLY WHITE.
posted by Sova at 10:24 AM on January 7, 2010 [19 favorites]


So... is there a Pacific Ocean equivalent to the Gulf Stream?

See "boundary currents"
posted by KokuRyu at 10:25 AM on January 7, 2010


hippybear - Thermohaline circulation.

It goes all around. And if it stops, then it's the apocalypse, Day After Tomorrow style. Except slower, and with less people outrunning waves of cold and wolves freezing in midair.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on January 7, 2010


I hear there's some rippin' barrels to be had on the south break near Thule. Looking forward to it.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:28 AM on January 7, 2010


What Britain feels like: cold.

What Britain doesn't feel like: cold enough, or icy enough in lots of places (with honourable exceptions) that all you workshy sissies can't come to work.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:28 AM on January 7, 2010 [5 favorites]


LOL PWNED
posted by the painkiller at 10:33 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


So... is there a Pacific Ocean equivalent to the Gulf Stream?

Absolutely. It turns residents of Vancouver Island and the BC lower mainland into insufferable assholes.

(Because it's warmer than the rest of Canada there. And they let us know.)
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:33 AM on January 7, 2010 [7 favorites]


I think I might move to France.
posted by marmaduke_yaverland at 10:35 AM on January 7, 2010


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.
posted by GuyZero at 10:36 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]



But it's cold outside! Therefore, there's no global warming QED.


My coworkers have been trotting this bullshit out since Copenhagen. During this cold snap across the eastern seaboard, my favorite line has been, "I bet Al Gore's curled up in his mansion next to the fireplace lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills!"
posted by backseatpilot at 10:38 AM on January 7, 2010


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.

It's called complaining about the weather. We do it every year. People from the north do it in the summer as well. We'll live.
posted by Sova at 10:40 AM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]


I love that one. How it's not okay for folks to profit from keeping the world habitable, but raping the earth for money is totally fine. It's good for my retirement [portfolio]!
posted by Eideteker at 10:43 AM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]


Absolutely. It turns residents of Vancouver Island and the BC lower mainland into insufferable assholes.

At 6 degrees Celsius, it's been pretty cold lately, but it should reach 11C tomorrow. Whee!
posted by KokuRyu at 10:45 AM on January 7, 2010


The Guardian on why the Daily Express et al are idiots.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on January 7, 2010 [4 favorites]


if complaining about the weather is high-quality FPP material then MAN-O-MAN I have got 2010 sewn up for super-awesome posts.
posted by GuyZero at 10:45 AM on January 7, 2010


This may or may not be evidence of climate change. Still, there seems to be little reason to jump on the "cognitive dissonance" bandwagon.
posted by notmtwain at 10:47 AM on January 7, 2010


Divergances of the gulf stream are not so much evidence of climate change as things that if you have been paying attention to the possible results of climate change should make you say "oh shit".

It may not be too late*, but when it is it will start out looking something like this. If that doesn;t give the tiniest bit of a chill then, well, *shrugs*.

* well, kinda it is, since we've thoroughly established that no one is going to do anything about it.
posted by Artw at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2010 [4 favorites]


if complaining about the weather is high-quality FPP material then MAN-O-MAN I have got 2010 sewn up for super-awesome posts.

I think the complaints are contingence, not essence, of this post.
posted by Sova at 10:51 AM on January 7, 2010


Call me when the Thames freezes.

Seriously...call me. A Frost Fair in the middle of London sounds fun. It'll make up for all the football being canceled.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:53 AM on January 7, 2010


It was kind of contingent on the not-quite-so-fun sounding Little Ice Age though...
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on January 7, 2010


But then The Independent in 2000 predicted that British children would not see snow again. Hysteria on both sides of this issue.
posted by A189Nut at 11:01 AM on January 7, 2010


But it's cold outside! Therefore, there's no global warming QED.

http://ifglobalwarmingisrealthenwhyisitcold.blogspot.com/
posted by Evilspork at 11:01 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


In regards to colder winters in some parts of the world not matching the fears/threats of global warming, my favorite come-back was from a MeFi comment I have since lost. In short: Asking why winter is colder while we're facing global warming is like asking why an alcoholic isn't always drunk.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:04 AM on January 7, 2010 [12 favorites]


I am so very surprised that Drudge hasn't linked to this.
posted by zzazazz at 11:05 AM on January 7, 2010


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.

As a Canadian living in London, yeah - I'll live. Some people have died, though...
posted by RockCorpse at 11:06 AM on January 7, 2010


I've said before that if Climate Change causes small areas containing rich and influential people to get colder while the rest of the planet gets warmer, it would be the ultimate Cosmic Irony (or, if you're religious, proof that God Hates Humanity). Either way, it'll go far to prevent needed changes from being made.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2010


FWIW I think I prefer the climate change version of Britain where we get a Mediterranean climate and get to grow decent wine.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2010


Day After Tomorrow style. Except slower, and with less people outrunning waves of cold and wolves freezing in midair.

I always liked to think that Roland Emmerich came up with this image of teenagers on an oil tanker being chased by wolves and then built the rest of the movie around that.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:10 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile, Calgary: -30C this morning (thursday), 12C in 4 days (tuesday).
posted by blue_beetle at 11:10 AM on January 7, 2010


You know I actually suspect it is "too late" to avoid climate change. The real question now is if enough people will pull their heads out of their collective asses and ameliorate some of the longer term effects. I suspect we are the quintessential frog in a pot of warming water...

"What? Things are getting warmer and I'll boil to death? Ha! you conspiracy nuts are all alike, I can't tell the difference, and hey look they just added a bunch of nice cool water so it come up to my eyes now, things are A-OK!"

Either way I suspect humans will survive, we will however be in a much poorer bio-diversity world than before for a loooooong while until things adapt and evolve to fill the new niches. Geo-politics also will continue to be a massive headache.
posted by edgeways at 11:14 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Obligatory DenialDepot link.
posted by Bangaioh at 11:18 AM on January 7, 2010


Some people have died, though...

Under what sort of UK weather conditions do people cease dying?
posted by GuyZero at 11:19 AM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


OMG BRITAIN IS SO HORRIFICALLY WHITE.

Looks like the BNP got its Xmas wish!
posted by Pollomacho at 11:19 AM on January 7, 2010 [5 favorites]


Climate change or not, this is interesting to see. I didn't actually know this could happen. And I also wonder if it's why Maine has seemed relatively warm this winter.
posted by rusty at 11:20 AM on January 7, 2010


Flipping the Gulf Stream away from Northern Europe is scary shit. To me anyway, and I live in the American Midwest.

That freaks me out the same way it freaked me out to find out that the formerly mythical Northwest Passage (thank you Stan Rogers!) had melted into existence in northern Canada a couple years ago.

I hope this gulf stream thing is less of a big deal than it sounds like, and it doesn't last very long, for Europe's sake.
posted by edheil at 11:21 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


OF COURSE THERE'S CLIMATE CHANGE THE CLIMATE CHANGES SEVERAL TIMES EVERY DAY DUH!!!!

Coincidentally, I was just told that. TODAY.
Hey hey, Warren County NJ! Whew!
posted by nevercalm at 11:23 AM on January 7, 2010


"I can see my house." Actually no I can't.
posted by Webbster at 11:27 AM on January 7, 2010


(Because it's warmer than the rest of Canada there. And they let us know.)

Yeah, I was just about to open the window for some fresh air and balmy breezes. Oh wait, is that a snowdrop I see?

posted by jokeefe at 11:28 AM on January 7, 2010


It's a big deal, as it could have repercussions in terms of agriculture - livestock can't forage, and a long winter could eat into the growing season. There's also the issue of flooding that follows exceptionally snowy and cold winters.

If this is a permanent change, then the repercussions are immense - Maine, Newfie and the Maritimes start looking like Southern New England in terms of climate, and Greenland starts looking like Maine. (Except this year - the Alberta Clipper is back. Snowy and cold.)

This has a direct economic impact on the UK and Canada.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2010


Jesus. I was hoping to start traveling to Ireland to get away from Minnesota wintersCOMEBACKTOUSGULFSTREAM.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2010


I'm keeping track of all the hurf durf global warming -20F WTF comments made by family and co-workers so that next August when it's 110F I can perform a LOGIC SMASH on them.

It's a small, bitter flame to harbor but it's all I have on this blustery, frigid day.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:40 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


GuyZero: It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.

Actually, speaking from the tiny bit of green remaining on the Map of Doom, I'm beginning to wonder if we might not.

We live in Cork, where the Gulf Stream terminates. This makes our climate relatively temperate all year round; as a native New Yorker, I can tell you that for all of the complaining people conversationally indulge in about how hot it is in the summer and how cold it is in the winter, this shit is neither very hot nor very cold. Historically, it's around 2 in the winter (36F) at its overnight coldest and and 20 (68F) in the height of summer.

This winter, however, has been something else. And it's not that the current conditions are really all that cold, it's how completely and utterly unprepared and un-built this country is for this kind of weather. Where my friend lives, the town's mains has frozen and isn't expected to thaw out for two weeks. Schools are closed because nobody can flush the toilets. At our house, everything in the extension's been frozen solid - no shower, no toilet, no washer - because it never occurred to us (or anyone else anywhere in Ireland) to insulate those pipes. We've never had to.

Cities have run out of road salt and grit because we've never had ice that didn't melt the next day. Stores can't get deliveries because nobody here knows how to drive an 18-wheeler on sheet ice. We've never had a hard frost anyone can remember, let alone one that's lasted for weeks.

So yeah, it's easy to say we'll live. But if this keeps up, we won't do it without radical structural changes, like moving the water works of entire cities another 10 feet underground, and massive renovations to millions of homes. It's really not just about some snow on the ground; it's about entire economies physically and agriculturally built for one kind of climate having to make sudden, drastic and expensive changes to cope with a significant and sustained climate change.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:46 AM on January 7, 2010 [86 favorites]


oh hooray, i leave next week for Helsinki from Singapore

(breaks down and weeps)
posted by infini at 11:50 AM on January 7, 2010


More exceptional weather events are predicted with anthropogenic climate change, but this could be a natural variation of weather and currents.
...
The need for urgent action to rapidly cut emissions of CO2, other greenhouse gases, and black carbon soot is becoming more evident by the day.


This is the sort of spin that gives AGW proponents a bad reputation.
posted by HTuttle at 11:52 AM on January 7, 2010


It would certainly suck in parts of the U.K. if the Gulf Stream permanently changed. But it wouldn't turn the place into antarctica. More like Canada. Except none of it would have the continental climate that most of Canada has; even without the Gulf Stream the surrounding ocean would moderate the climate somewhat. It would likely be rather unpleasant in Edinburgh compared to how it is now, but a metric shitton of people live in Moscow which is at the same latitude, and Moscow is nowhere near the ocean.

I'm not trying to downplay this. But we're not talking about The Day After Tomorrow here. It wouldn't be the end of the United Kingdom.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on January 7, 2010


Yeah, I've been in Moscow in winter, fuck that.
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


it's about entire economies physically and agriculturally built for one kind of climate having to make sudden, drastic and expensive changes to cope with a significant and sustained climate change.

Ahh. Didn't preview. Yes, DarlingBri has it. This is a great economic and social challenge, but not one which threatens survival of English or Irish civilization. Scotland... wellllll, the Russians manage.
posted by Justinian at 11:54 AM on January 7, 2010


they could learn from the Finns, with all due respect, who've embraced teh snow and winter that when I first moved the embassy here handed me a pamphlet called "Snow" (how to deal with winter) adn I have friends emailing me pix of lamps they've made for their gardens by letting ice form in the shape of a bucket and putting candles inside, not to mention the old neighbourhood has decided to use the local server farm to heat the homes ;p
posted by infini at 12:00 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Well they could, assuming they haven't blown the budget for that on airconditioning after the heatwave that killed all those old people.
posted by Artw at 12:05 PM on January 7, 2010


So yeah, it's easy to say we'll live. But if this keeps up, we won't do it without radical structural changes, like moving the water works of entire cities another 10 feet underground, and massive renovations to millions of homes. It's really not just about some snow on the ground; it's about entire economies physically and agriculturally built for one kind of climate having to make sudden, drastic and expensive changes to cope with a significant and sustained climate change.

So there's trends and there's trends.

I live in Toronto the year the Mayor called up the Canadian Armed Forces to shovel snow off the city streets. If you're Canadian, you remember it. Toronto was a laughing stock instead of being the target of bitter resentment like usual. And somewhat rightly so. But, in fairness, Toronto spends something like 1/4th of the money cities like Montreal and Calgary spend on snow removal so we're simply unprepared to get the amount of snow those cities routinely get.

Extreme weather is, by definition, extreme. But it does happen. And again, somewhat axiomatically, you're unprepared for it. if you were prepared for it, it wouldn't be extreme.

(Unless you live in Florida or Haiti and are for some reason are completely surprised that hurricanes exist year after year. But I digress)

So there are yearly variations and some years you get dealt a bad hand. Snow covers all of Britain. Toronto gets three feet of snow instead of one. Calgary hits -40 instead of -10. Then a year or two later there's a balmy winter and no one can make a backyard ice rink in Toronto and everyone starts believing in global warming again.

Quite separate is the question of whether this represents the far end of the bell curve or whether it represents a long-term trend. I doubt it will be a long-term trend. I could be wrong, but chances are you'll get normal British winters again for the next few years. Of course, this depends on what happens next year. If you've got the whole country covered in snow again this time next year, that will be something to worry about.
posted by GuyZero at 12:15 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I'm fully aware that, compared to global conditions, the UK's weather doesn't merit the kind of panic that it's inspired. But what's thrown people is that, even for a country where if you don't like the weather you need only wait five minutes, the combination of this much snow and nights this cold is very unusual. We had some pretty good snow this time last year as well, but before that I think you'd have to go back to about 1991 to find anything close, and there's a lot of talk around about "the worst winter for 30 years" and similar.

Probably the best way I can explain it is that just before Christmas, I was walking to work and needing nothing more heavy-duty than a coat over a short-sleeved shirt. Today, I had added a jumper, a scarf, two pairs of gloves and a hat to the mix, and I'm going to be sleeping in a sleeping bag under a duvet tonight. This is not normal weather for us, so naturally we're not prepared for it.

Add the average Briton's inability to shut up about the weather at the best of times, and it's really no surprise that you've heard little else from our little island for the past few weeks!
posted by ZsigE at 12:16 PM on January 7, 2010


Climate change or not, this is interesting to see. I didn't actually know this could happen. And I also wonder if it's why Maine has seemed relatively warm this winter.

I remember growing up in the UK Midlands in the 70s/80s and having snow this deep. Used to build igloos and dig snow holes in the drifts. My father tells stories about growing up in the 40s and the hedges being frozen so you could walk on top of them. We just got complacent and forgot how to cope with this weather.
If you want to see hysteria, you should see how everyone is behaving in Houston, TX this week now the weather is close to freezing.
posted by arcticseal at 12:16 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


http://ifglobalwarmingisrealthenwhyisitcold.blogspot.com/

Something Awful apparently has a whole slew of these, either separate from or a part of their policital cartoons megathread. What's even better is when forum members make their own parody conservative comics, like this one.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:17 PM on January 7, 2010 [4 favorites]


Sorry, I just wanted to add this in case people don't get the trickle-down nature of this sort of weather change:

Just as a single example, beef in Ireland is grass fed. We have green grass almost all year, and cows are put out to pasture something 10 months a year - except, not this year. And farmers are facing a shortage of feed and escalating feed costs because nobody stocked up for four months of hard frost, what with it never having happened before in the history of, well, ever. An increase in feed prices like this means that a couple of things can happen:

1) Consumer prices for Irish beef will go up dramatically.
2) We'll stop buying Irish beef and buy imported, factory-fed beef from Eastern Europe
3) Irish beef farmers will no longer be able to afford to be beef farmers and will join their cousins the dairy farmers on the dole queue, adding to the strain on an economy that's already in the toilet.

Justinian is right that this doesn't herald The Day After Tomorrow and it's not the end of the world. But it will mean the end for a lot of families and businesses in one way or another. I wouldn't want to be a farmer of any kind right now - not one production feeding my cattle, and not one burning 24/7 fuel to manually heat my greenhouses. And I really, really wouldn't want to be a mother with two kids on income support in Edinburgh facing rising food costs at the same time as rising fuel costs and the necessity of increased fuel consumption. That extra £60 a month (and the extra months of fuel spend) is what puts marginal families over the edge.

UK, Ireland, wherever - there will be a lot of knock-on effects like this, all over, and the economic, agricultural and social marginalization changes they will bring are ultimately bigger and more problematic than cold weather.

PS: We having freezing cold and sleeting rain, but because we're in God's Special Green Patch on the Irish Coast, WE STILL HAVE NO SNOW. Not fair.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:22 PM on January 7, 2010 [6 favorites]


PS: We having freezing cold and sleeting rain, but because we're in God's Special Green Patch on the Irish Coast, WE STILL HAVE NO SNOW. Not fair.

I've a mate in bournemouth, where one of the few remaining patches is. I've toldf him to expect a wave of refugees coming there, Day After Tomorrow style, to dig up his Cricket pitch and grow turnips. I think he'd be quite prepared to batter their brains out to defend the pitch, which come to think of it is what the Rest of the World should have done to the Americans in that movie.
posted by Artw at 12:26 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]


Hopefully that Will Stanton kid is busy finding the six Signs.
posted by A dead Quaker at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2010 [4 favorites]


DarlingBri speaks truth. I have a friend who also lives in County Cork, and I've visited twice - once in early March, once in January -- and found it unusually mild both times. People could grow PALM trees in their front yards (my friend told me that some people who went on vacation in Spain brought back palm saplings as souvenirs).

The day after Christmas she sent me an email about the cold snap, and how it had completely thrown a wrench into everything - "Many friends couldn't get out of Cork and are spending the days waiting. The next door neighbours were totally stuck in Bandon [the city where she lives] unable to get to either set of grandparents who have also been isolated in the country for the last few days." Just yesterday she reported that the road crews had totally run out of road salt and sand, and a friend had to live on oatmeal for 3 days because she just plain couldn't get out of the house. The next door neighbors -- who were intending to visit their grandparents -- hadn't gone shopping because they were thinking "oh, we'll just eat at Grandma's", so all they had to live on was chocolate for 5 days. Schools are still shut down this week -- which throws a wrench in her day (she's a teacher).

Yes, this is a freaky weather occurence, we may not know it's a trend yet, every place goes through cold snaps, etc., etc., etc. But if we have enough evidence to know that stuff like this happens because the very ocean currents have shifted, that's kind of alarming.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on January 7, 2010


Dublin is paralyzed. I've lived in places with cold winters, but, as others have pointed out, places like that know how to cope. This is worrying. If it were just a natural outlier (1962/63 seems to be the last comparable cold snap), no worries. But the instability of the Gulf Stream looks like genuine cause to worry. You don't want your infrastructure operating that close to tolerance boundaries. If our climate were a bridge, we would forbid anyone to march over it.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:38 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


How often does the Gulf Stream wander up to the other side of Greenland like that?
posted by From Bklyn at 12:39 PM on January 7, 2010


Ok, so that answers my AskMe about whether there was anywhere in mainland Britain that didn't have snow on the ground after Tuesday night.

This is wierd.

On the otherhand, maybe this'll sort out the wasp plague.
posted by Helga-woo at 12:43 PM on January 7, 2010


It's funny how our parents freaked out about nukes killing us all, and instead it looks like it's gonna be exhaust/cow farts.

It's gotten so I feel like I have a designated part of my brain that's all OMGCLIMATE CHANGE FOOD SUPPLIES OIL RUNS OUT THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO PANIC and another part that goes calmly about my day, everything normal. There's some cognitive dissonance for you right there.

I mean, I follow the blogs of people who have taken the semi-survivalist route, raise chickens and garden veggies, sew their clothes, can food and so on, and I think, oh yeah I should do that. But would it even help, or is the disaster big enough that individual action is pretty much irrelevant? And I don't have anyone to teach me these kinds of skills.

And on the other hand, I'm working 40 hours a week at my desk and hoping not to lose that, because even if I had a vegetable garden, I'd need some supplementary money to feed my family and pay for an internet connection.

And all this is why I can never bear to actually read or see The Road because it's a little too close to what I worry about in the Designated Panic part of my brain, thank you very much.
posted by emjaybee at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2010 [12 favorites]


I live in the north of Ireland and am having a tiny bit of trouble getting to work these days. This is mortally embarrassing to me as I have just got back from visiting my Norwegian girlfriend near Oslo. There was a significant chance that despite it being -13c and with a few feet of snow at Sandefjord airport, that any delay or cancellation of my flight would have been as a result of half an inch of snow in Dublin and -2 or -3c.

If it gets any worse (hah!) and I don't get to work any day next week then I will never be able to live it down.
posted by knapah at 12:48 PM on January 7, 2010


emjaybee - You should reread some Jared Diamond to calm yourself down.
posted by Artw at 12:50 PM on January 7, 2010


Forget about england. If the gulf stream significantly warms Greenland, that would cause more melting of the glaciers there, which would have a huge impact on sea levels.
posted by empath at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2010


Now if Edward Woodwood were still around the folks of Summer Isle could sort everything out.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on January 7, 2010


Anybody got a source, other than the Daily Kos, for the merging of the Gulf Stream and the West Greenland Current? The Kos seems to credit NSIDC with that, but, while the Artic Oscillation stuff is from them, the graphic at the top that appears to show the current change is not (that I can find). The Daily Kos article is all over the interwebs, mind you.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:23 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Damnit, I had my "suck it up, limeys, I delivered newspapers in this weather when I was 9" comment all cued up and then DarlingBri has to harsh on my snark. So I'll limit myself to suggesting that our Scottish friends put on something under those fancy plaid skirts that the dudes over there wear; we Americans--or "Yank bastards" in your incomprehensible Caledonian argot--have these things called Joe Boxers that are pretty cute, you need to get you some.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:24 PM on January 7, 2010


Ah, The Telegraph... 'Climate science' is an oxymoron. Time for Zero Tolerance of Green agendas
posted by Artw at 1:29 PM on January 7, 2010


It's like a baby Greenland! So cute...
posted by Mister_A at 1:35 PM on January 7, 2010


Great anecdote. Imagine the infrastructure changes that will be needed to deal with 1-2m of sea level rise.
posted by anthill at 1:36 PM on January 7, 2010


Holy crap I thought this was one o those Discovery Channel speculative things, didn't realize the place is in fact a mini-Greenland! That's awful.
posted by Mister_A at 1:40 PM on January 7, 2010


There was an even less fun ice age some 13,000 years ago in Europe, triggered by a slow-down of–wait for it–the gulf stream.

This was not the mega ice-age, just a 1300 year one.
posted by Mister_A at 1:44 PM on January 7, 2010


It's clear that us not doing anything about climates change won't be the fault of the deniers, sheer inertia on the part of people who actually believe in global warming does the job of preventing action just as well, but that doesn't mean that they are not a resource that can be exploited. I suggest paying them each a small sum in return for a contract agreeing to let us feast on their flesh in the event of climate-related mass cannibalism. I mean, if it goes Donner party we'll all be getting eaten, but they might as well go first while they've still got meat on their bones.

That sort of thing is legally binding, right?
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


DarlingBri has covered most of what I was gonna say. I'm in Dublin, whingeing about how the council has no grit for the footpaths, and my family are down in Tramore, complaining that it still hasn't snowed there and how come everyone else gets to have all the fun. Meanwhile, the Swedish guy in work is being very polite, but I can tell he's laughing at us behind our backs.
posted by kersplunk at 1:51 PM on January 7, 2010


Freak Current Takes Gulf Stream to Greenland

So what does Greenland look like right now?
posted by LarryC at 1:56 PM on January 7, 2010


Pig farmers successfully lobbied to make us call Swine Flu H1N1 instead. Can we drop the "Global Warming" moniker and just say "Climate Change" or anything else that will not result is cries of shenanigans anytime it snows in Dixie?
posted by jefficator at 1:57 PM on January 7, 2010


So what will this do to the global temperature record for 2009, which I presume is an average?
posted by A189Nut at 2:02 PM on January 7, 2010


@Mister_A

Depressing -- the comments to the New Scientist are almost as bad as the Telegraph's.
posted by Bayey at 2:05 PM on January 7, 2010


So what will this do to the global temperature record for 2009, which I presume is an average?

Not much, probably. You're probably only hearing about this because it's affecting rich/Anglophone countries and not, say, Kazakhstan.
posted by kersplunk at 2:29 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


I really wish there was a better link about alterations of the Gulf Stream than DailyKos.
posted by absalom at 2:32 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


the comments to the New Scientist are almost as bad as the Telegraph's.

Does it have a frothing mouthed diatribe against windmills?
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on January 7, 2010


My DNA didn't spend millions of years mutating and evolving as part of one of the dominant organisms on the planet to be set back by a few degrees change in global average temperature. The only gulf stream I want to hear about is the one I'm taking to Vegas this weekend for my regular game and golf weekend. And don't get me started on a few hundred parts per million, you want to quibble over pocket change be my guest. Now pardon me while I go shoot a bear, the wife needs some new fur to ride out this winter.
posted by humanfont at 2:54 PM on January 7, 2010


I really wish there was a better link about alterations of the Gulf Stream than DailyKos.

Now you mention it, I'm not seeing much - though I am seeing a lot of references to something called the Omega Block which does not appear to be gulf stream related.
posted by Artw at 2:55 PM on January 7, 2010


How often does the Gulf Stream wander up to the other side of Greenland like that?

Every time it follows the Beatles' directions for getting to America.

So what does Greenland look like right now?

Like this.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:06 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh, yeah. Sorry. Palm trees are so common and unremarkable here I forgot to mention that we do in fact have them in our front yards. Under, you know, snow. So that's a little freaky.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:12 PM on January 7, 2010


Also an expat New Yorker living in Northumberland, UK for the past 4 years. Continually amazed that a blizzard effectively cripples the entire country.

Perhaps it's a major cultural difference in resource allocation, but I think it's fucking rich that local councils are on the news claiming poverty regarding salt & grit, yet when it comes to covert operations on constituants, they suspect may be breaking one of the seemingly endless pedandic laws regarding garbage cans and hedgerow heights, no expense is spared.

Health and safety motherfuckers, health and safety.
posted by Hickeystudio at 3:26 PM on January 7, 2010


Hmmmm.

I'm currently leaning towards "bunk" for this. Oh, not the cold snap, but the DailyKos explanation for it.

The source of that scaaaaaary graph seems to be this here. I have no idea what this organization is. But let's take everything at face value 'cause I have no reason not not.

That chart does indeed appear to show an unusual merging of two currents. But there doesn't appear to be any evidence that it is causing the current crazy weather. The important thing would seem to be surface temperature of the ocean near the UK and Ireland, and it appears there is no significant difference between now and a year ago. If anything the ocean right off the coast of Cork is every so slightly warmer than a year ago as the shade of blue appears to be a little lighter.

That chart is scary because it implies that that line of DARK RED current should be flowing to the UK instead of near Greenland... but that's not true. If you look at some random historical charts the red flow just sort of peters out in the Atlantic. I don't see the slightest evidence that there is any serious change to what is going on in the ocean next to the U.K. Not in temperature, not in current levels, and not in salinity.

So unless somebody can show me what I'm misunderstanding I'm going with "counterproductive bullshit" on this one.
posted by Justinian at 3:30 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.

To echo what others have said, if we got snow 5 months a year it would be less of a problem, because it would be economically feasible to spend a load of money on equipment and supplies to deal with it. Instead, in the South of England, "the number of days with snow falling is about 12-15 per year" - there's no point buying a load of stuff to only to leaving lying around doing nothing for more than 350 days a year.

An aside: In common with several people above I also have relatives in County Cork - on the coast, near Harbor View - and they do, in fact, have palm trees growing in their garden :)
posted by robertc at 3:38 PM on January 7, 2010


I am certainly no climate change denier, but really. This is a bit worse than '81, not as bad as '63 and not in the same league as '47. So what we have is an event that happens every 20-ish years happening, oooh, a bit over 20 years after the last one.

One swallow does not make a summer, and one cold snap does not make a turned-off gulf stream. I can only quote the nice sensible people at the met office:

"The current cold weather in the UK is part of the normal regional variations that take place in the winter season. It doesn’t tell us anything about climate change, which has to be looked at in a global context and over longer periods of time."
posted by Coobeastie at 3:44 PM on January 7, 2010 [5 favorites]


Thanks Justinian. That is just the kind of help I was looking for. I agree. The graphic that suggests, without sufficient context, that the Day After Tomorrow is upon is is bullshit. Thanks! Still cold here in Dublin, but I'll sleep easier without the panic journalism. This time.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:47 PM on January 7, 2010


So what we have is an event that happens every 20-ish years happening, oooh, a bit over 20 years after the last one.

This is what I'm seeing as well. Which makes the kind of doomsaying in the DailyKos link counterproductive and dangerous. It's the equivalent of REEFER MADNESS for climate change. Exaggeration and unsupported speculation only play into the hands of people who want to deny global climate change.

That's what made those leaked emails from East Anglia's Climate unit so problematic. People saying "but... but... those emails aren't what they appear to be if you only look at them deeply and in context!" are missing the point. Yeah, the "skeptics" calling those emails fraud and criminal activity are crazy stupid. But it's worse than that.

Those emails and diaries like this are worse than a crime; they are a blunder.
posted by Justinian at 3:52 PM on January 7, 2010


So I'm late to this party... but here's my cut'n'paste take on it - The UK has become an apocalyptic snowman.
posted by samworm at 3:57 PM on January 7, 2010


So I'll limit myself to suggesting that our Scottish friends put on something under those fancy plaid skirts that the dudes over there wear; we Americans--or "Yank bastards" in your incomprehensible Caledonian argot

That argots older than your country pal.

I dont think we have any mean terms for americans - it's english all the way.
Aye edinburgh is cold but there you are, my polish fiance says -6 is nothing really.
It's just good to have a proper winter i think - usually its a bit cold, a bit rain - which is more irritating than a russian winter apparently.

From a stay in rhode island i know you all wear walmart jumpsuits in winter anyway.

This snow is a real disaster for landscape photography btw : )
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:04 PM on January 7, 2010


Yeah, looking like the DailyKos thing is someone there's unsubstantiated theory rather than, you know, something real, and unless I see any other sources (from, for instance, actual scientists - something I should have looked for before posting the thing) I'm going to have to assume it's bollocks.
posted by Artw at 4:21 PM on January 7, 2010


Actual scientists say it's because of a kink in the jet stream (Scotsman.com link). They say these sorts of kinks are very stable, and this one isn't shifting for the forecastable future (10-14 days).

It's now -11 in Glasgow. That's Stockholm temperature in a place that's usually around -1 this time of year. My facebook feed is packed with reports of broken heating boilers, burst pipes and flooded basements. Oh, and the colour of ladies' bras. There's yr blitz spirit.
posted by bonaldi at 4:49 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


A leaf blower ... I've never seen one used on snow (well, until now) I mean there are people who broom after every dusting, but unless you need a shovel, usually isn't enough to mind.

Went looking and found videos of theory in action (one titled "winter stupidity", no less). All in all; rather inefficient.

Can't be too smug though, mother nature teaches temperance as we dance to her tune.
posted by phoque at 5:11 PM on January 7, 2010


Cold Arctic Pressure Pattern Nearly Off Chart
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on January 7, 2010


The whole winter snow calamity is, to be honest, more of a London-centric media calamity than an actual crisis, although having said that, it's not like various parts of the country aren't under a ton of snow1, and having trouble dealing with it.

This past week, various parts of Scotland have hit -18C, but then Scotland – or at least most of the central belt, which contains about 3 of the country's 5 million population – spent the Christmas and New Year of 1995/96 dealing with temperatures of -20 to -25 C, and then dealing with the subsequent floods of 8ft-deep water when the whole lot melted. Granted, this cold snap is lasting a lot longer, but it's not been too much worse.

In fact, the biggest problem has been the way that councils and local authorities have dealt with the roads. UK wide, it used to be the case that each local council had their own in-house road-gritting team that was geared up to deal with a severe winter each and every year. But as council budgets were cut, one of the easiest things to get rid of was winter road-gritting budgets, with the thinking that their skills were less necessary, now that winters weren't so nasty. So the budgets go; most of the gritting lorries are sold off; the general knowledge of how to deal with major snowfall on roads disappears. And the councils figure that if they need gritting expertise, they can hire it. More fool them.

And then a truly heavy duty winter arrives, and local councils, responsible for gritting roads, don't really know what to do. Or rather, they don't have the money to do what's necessary. So they grit the major roads because that's reasonably easy, but they totally neglect the major roads' tributaries, because (i) they don't have the money and (ii) they're kind of difficult to grit because they're not major roads. Which, in turn, leads to a total failure of the road system because – guess what! – not everyone spends all of their journey on the major parts of the road system.

So the whole thing falls to pieces. And then the media acts like shocked schoolgirls when the whole thing falls to bits. And then they – the media, that is, like The Sun and the Daily Mail, among others – go on to piss and moan about how the government has fucked it all up for everybody even though they've spent the past countless decades pissing and moaning about how the government is a big waste of your damned taxpayers money and by the way what are they spending all this money on like who needs all these road-gritting machines I mean obviously they're not needed. Until they are.





1Although when it happens in London, is it obviously a MASSIVE NATIONAL CRISIS THAT MUST BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY, even if only six inches of snow have fallen.
posted by Len at 5:24 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]


All that said, it is fucking freezing here, in a way it hasn't been in years.
posted by Len at 5:33 PM on January 7, 2010


I don't think it's your typical London media crisis this time; though the tabs are having a good go at it. Anything that gets Reporting Scotland higher viewing figures than the Dr Who Xmas special probably has a fair chance of being a legitimate story, I reckon.

Spot on about the gritting, though: the question of overtime was absent from just about every interview and piece on the gritters, despite the fact that there's hardly any out-of-hours (and triple-time-attracting) gritting being done. time was the teams would have been out 24hrs a day when temperatures were like this.

Not that it matters much now we're running out of grit, pah.
posted by bonaldi at 5:34 PM on January 7, 2010


Anything that gets Reporting Scotland higher viewing figures than the Dr Who Xmas special


Jesus, I didn't know about that. Really? (Don't doubt you; just surprised.) And yes, yr right about the overtime thing. And the running out of grit thing.
posted by Len at 5:44 PM on January 7, 2010


-18C in Scotland? Holy shit. It's probably a wet cold, which is even worse.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:04 PM on January 7, 2010


-18C in Scotland? Holy shit. It's probably a wet cold, which is even worse.

Weirdly, it's not a wet cold at all, but rather a bitter dry one, which is, I think, part of the problem, in the sense that we're used to the wet cold thing. Extended dry cold, though, we're not used to ...
posted by Len at 6:09 PM on January 7, 2010


It's now -11 in Glasgow. That's Stockholm temperature

Stockholm must be more temperate than I would have guessed. For comparison, Minneapolis has a forecast of -26C tomorrow night. Fairly cold, but it usually gets 10 degrees (C) colder than that at least once a year. The cold is really not a big problem above zero Fahrenheit, which Google tells me is -18C. The wind, on the other hand, is a real killer at that temperature—far more than wind chill values would suggest.
posted by stopgap at 6:23 PM on January 7, 2010


Not much, probably. You're probably only hearing about this because it's affecting rich/Anglophone countries and not, say, Kazakhstan.

It was -35°F today in parts of Northeastern Kazakhstan due to its largely Siberian climate. It makes this Alberta Clipper and the subsequent lake effect snow fall in Cleveland seem…bearable.
posted by vkxmai at 6:23 PM on January 7, 2010


You're all missing the real problem here. What if the peat freezes and they can't cut it out of the ground anymore... Islay Whisky will never be the same...
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:28 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]


Eideteker: "Exscuse me, "climate change""

Uh.. it's called Global warming. Make no excuse!

Climate change is a simple concept that waters down the idea that 1) the earth is currently warming (ie. Global warming) and 2) it is caused by humans (ie. AGW).
posted by stbalbach at 6:28 PM on January 7, 2010


How it's not okay for folks to profit from keeping the world habitable

When only 30% goes to the actual task - its quite profitable.

unprepared and un-built this country is for this kind of weather.

Just wait 'till you get to live the joy of post peak oil.
(remember folks the R insulation scale is supposed to indicate the ability to deal with a 1 degree temp difference. So an R-70 wall is supposed to key the inside at 70 and the outside at 0 without any addl. heat)

I think, oh yeah I should do that. But would it even help,

Depends. Do you think that people (governments and individuals) would respect property rights or just come and take what you have? Remember in the US of A there are "rules" that claim the Government has the right to take what you have for their benefit in a national crisis.

even if I had a vegetable garden, I'd need some supplementary money

Naw, you've got the 1930's UXA! (features Upton Sinclair for "fans" of The Jungle)


My DNA didn't spend millions of years mutating and evolving

Speed that up man. Go and get your self some products from the chemical processing industry, some heavy metals (like depleted Uranium), or for extra DNA ripping fun terrahertz radiation!

This is a bit worse than '81, not as bad as '63 and not in the same league as '47.

Doooooode. You aren't with the viral hype program. John Robb explains the program

What if the peat freezes

Don't worry - it seems other ppls peat is thawing and because of the global good of global trade it'll be OK.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:54 PM on January 7, 2010


Yeeeees. Mass clathrate release of methane was the premise of Barnes' Mother of Storms. I can't wait for the huge hurricanes with tornado force winds!
posted by Justinian at 11:57 PM on January 7, 2010


Yeeeees. Mass clathrate release of methane was the premise

Its also a popular mass extinction tool for oxygen breathers.

(if the people who are trying to save the earth and can only get 30% of the money put to useful work and the rest is profit then let the place burn that way their money will be as useful to them as it was to me)
posted by rough ashlar at 1:52 AM on January 8, 2010


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year. You'll live.

Congratulations on your hardiness to weather. You might want to consider that some places aren't at all used to or prepared for the weather you take in your stride.
posted by vbfg at 2:41 AM on January 8, 2010


That opinion seems to be popular on further reading. Apologies for piling on. Still, I hope Winnipeg gets hit with such an overwhelming spell of mild but slightly variable that none of you can cope.
posted by vbfg at 2:47 AM on January 8, 2010


The gulf stream myth


... a long held belief of the British, other Europeans, Americans and, indeed, much of the world's population that the northward heat transport by the Gulf Stream is the reason why western Europe enjoys a mild climate, much milder than, say, that of eastern North America. This idea was actually originated by an American military man, Matthew Fontaine Maury, in the mid nineteenth century and has stuck since despite the absence of proof.

We now know this is a myth, the climatological equivalent of an urban legend. In a detailed study published in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society in 2002, we demonstrated the limited role that ocean heat transport plays in determining regional climates around the Atlantic Ocean.

posted by Jakey at 3:05 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]


Those "Palm trees" people are talking about are actually Cordylines, otherwise known as Cabbage Trees. They are from the temperate climate of New Zealand, so they can cope with some cold just fine. It's not really something to brag about.

And the leaves they shed are a real bugger when you're mowing the lawn.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 3:17 AM on January 8, 2010


Blimey - it hit -22.3C in Altnahara, Scotland, last night.

It does seem a bit rubbish that a nation that produced Scott and Shackleton can't seem to cope with ice and snow on this scale. However, our infrastructure is simply not built for these conditions. The biggest problem seems to be a lack of grit and salt to keep our roads accessible.

Most of the major roads are OK, but side roads and most pavements are iced over where I live. Seriously, pavements in the residential areas are bloody dangerous. As a young athletic individual it's no problem for me, but my elderly neighbours are basically trapped indoors. And of course, if you have very little experience driving in icy conditions, then you're asking for trouble.

Apart from the roads, there have been roof collapses due to the weight of snow, and water supplies in several places have been cut due to frozen or burst pipes (no insulation you see).
posted by jonesor at 6:28 AM on January 8, 2010


I can't wait for the huge hurricanes with tornado force winds!

You don't have to! There are a few of them in the recent past.
posted by Mister_A at 8:35 AM on January 8, 2010


I'm in Georgia in the US and the only news here is how cold it is here (seriously, the entire local news last night was "wow, it's cold."). So I didn't realize y'all over in the UK/Ireland are having your own set of problems, and it also took me a while to understand that the picture was real and not some "what if" exercise.

Speaking of not being prepared for weather, my favorite thing about possible snow in the south US is how local newscasters immediately send people to various locations around town (usually the sides of a busy highways) to stand out in the cold/wind/fog/freezing rain and talk about how miserable it is and how much worse it MIGHT get before it's all over.

One time a few years ago I was watching a broadcast just like this in Atlanta. Snow was anticipated but not yet falling, and the poor TV reporter had run out of ways to sound dramatic and portentous. So the next time the anchor "cut to Brad in Buckhead to see what's happening ON THE GROUND" (hint: nothing), what viewers saw was the tip of Brad's dress shoe poking into a very normal-looking puddle. Then the camera abruptly cut to Brad's worried-looking face. "Do you see this puddle?" Brad intoned seriously. "It's water now. But if it were freezing, it would be...ICE."

OH MY GOD NO!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, stay warm, everyone. (Except for those in Australia. They should stay cool.)
posted by staggering termagant at 10:08 AM on January 8, 2010


When I'm confronted with global warming deniers, I remind myself that these people don't want to believe that anthropogenic climate change could possibly be real because it directly confronts a lifestyle they have grown up with. The Americans I have met who don't want to believe in global warming have chosen this belief because it threatens to change the culture...and specifically the *car culture* that has been in place in their lives forever.

It's not hard to blame them. The freedom to cheaply drive around where ever you want is extremely romantic...to just get up and go on some road trip adventure. Car culture has shaped most of the cities in America that these people have known forever. Our history and culture in America (and Canada, I suppose) is so young that it makes perfect sense that this automotive freedom would be deeply important to us.

So I remind myself that most of your global warming deniers are just terrified of change and an attack on their way of life.

If I even bother to argue with these individuals or discuss the science that defines global warming, I tell them that they're confusing *weather*, which is what happens around us on a day to day, month to month time frame with *climate* which is what happens over a decades long period.

Then I just tell them that saying global warming does not exist because we're having a hard winter is like saying it's not January because it's currently Friday.
posted by kumazemi at 10:19 AM on January 8, 2010


Disasters had to fulfill at least one of the following criteria:

1. 10 or more people killed.

2. 100 people affected

3. Declaration of a state of emergency.

4. Call for international assistance.
Originally courtesy of the New York Times, Weather Related Disasters, 1900-2007.

The original had to be run in a page length column.

Graphic based upon data from the Center for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters (also called CRED) at the Catholic University of Louvain in Brussels.
posted by y2karl at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2010


wow - leon and bonaldi - hello chaps : )

this is the coldest weather ever, apparently ......
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:00 PM on January 9, 2010


It's called snow. Europe gets it every year. Winnipeg gets it something like 5 months a year.

The part of Europe in question getting it now usually does not. That's the point.

People in Tahiti get hurricanes, and generally know how to handle them. How prepared is Winnipeg for hurricanes?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:02 PM on January 10, 2010


I think this may have been covered - but I was immediately reminded of the 2003 Woods Hole Institute article on this subject: http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?cid=9986&pid=12455&tid=282. The WHI article vaguely reminds me of the New Yorker Article in 2000 warning of the utter lack of intelligence in Afganistan and central-Asia in general.
posted by specialk420 at 9:48 PM on January 10, 2010


How prepared is Winnipeg for hurricanes?

Considering they got flooded last year when the Red River went several thousand percent higher than usual and are pretty tough-ass prairie people, actually pretty well prepared. Although the geographic improbability of Winnipeg receiving a hurricane is about the equivalent of glaciers pushing down the Thames.
posted by GuyZero at 9:29 AM on January 11, 2010


Well, it thawed out here last night. Practically no snow left except in some small sheltered patches, but wonderfully the thaw has resulted in burst pipes for the Water service. This means that they've cut off our water supply while they fix them, the bastards.
posted by knapah at 2:29 PM on January 11, 2010


In an attempt to be a nice guy, burst pipes do indeed suck.

This however, is not how to deal with snow.
posted by GuyZero at 2:47 PM on January 11, 2010


In an attempt to be a nice guy, burst pipes do indeed suck.

The annoying thing is that it's nothing to do with my house, it's the fact that the water service people didn't bury their pipes deep enough or insulate them well. Pah. It better be back on when I get home from work.

This however, is not how to deal with snow.

I agree completely.
posted by knapah at 5:32 AM on January 12, 2010


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