Comments on: Comments on 8968

Post number 8968

Reggie452 — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:52:58 -0800

Camgirl Stacy allegedly attempts suicide on her webcam. This link is disturbing on so many levels. (Blatanly ripped off from fark.com.)

By: waxpancake

waxpancake — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:26:48 -0800

What an insensitive pinhead. "Cry me a river. It gives me a boner."

By: efullerton

efullerton — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:34:40 -0800

How oddly belligerent. I don't understand how people work up so much energy to be so angry about things that have almost no relevance to their lives. Can cam girls really be so bad, now I ask you? I think he says it all when he relates the situation back to his friend, perhaps he should cope with that before going off and spreading all this negative energy. I really don't find it that disturbing though, these are fairly standard events in the grand scheme. Person kills themselves due to depression and another person is angry at them for being weak, its' an oft repeated equation. Japanese Porn (especially that which involves excrement), now that's what I call disturbing.

By: Skot

Skot — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:34:48 -0800

What's more pathetic than attention-seeking camgirls? A site dedicated to critiquing attention-seeking camgirls.

By: halcyon

halcyon — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:48:08 -0800

Stacy was on the SXSW webcam panel. She webcast herself even as she spoke on the panel. Webcasting her sucide attempt seems completely in tune with her broadcasting philosophy and her attempts as life-as-art. I'm sorry she was hurting. I hope her pain (and the pain of those who care about her) eases soon.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:53:06 -0800

I don't mean to sound insensitive (I've been pretty close to where Stacy is, and I don't want to make light of it). But. It shouldn't surprise anyone that something like this might happen. Being a camgirl = Attempt to get attention. Attempting suicide (especially in public) = Attempt to get attention. I don't mean to imply that being a camperson is a sign of "having issues," but it's not surprising that someone who "has issues" might become a camperson.

By: jfuller

jfuller — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:57:59 -0800

> What's more pathetic than attention-seeking camgirls? > > A site dedicated to critiquing attention-seeking camgirls. This specific question might be asked more seriously, about the sort of folks who make up webcam-girls' online audience. How should we feel about people who want to stare at some stranger's life at this level of one-way intimacy? Personally I wouldn't want to shake hands with 'em without putting on two or three rubber gloves first.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:58:51 -0800

I also don't mean to suggest that attempting suicide is always a cry for attention. I misspoke. I meant that often that what it is.

By: jcterminal

jcterminal — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:06:30 -0800

stile had her beat by months.

By: will

will — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:09:13 -0800

i really, really hope this isn't true. as someone who is dealing with depression it hits me right in the heart to see someone lose the same fight.

By: Reggie452

Reggie452 — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:16:37 -0800

My questions: 1. Is this a true story? (Was it a real suicide attempt, a desperate plea for attention, or a really hideous publicity stunt?) 2. Did Stacy live or die? (And if she is alive, is she getting help?) 3. What is wrong with the guy who wrote this "article" on Stacy?

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:18:03 -0800

Even- or perhaps especially- in the face of the Kaycee et al debacles, isn't it somewhat heartening to see this- or rather, the response to this (looking at the post-event comments people have put on her journal?). Sure, this girl has some issues to work out, obviously, but I was just thinking, as I read some of the responses people put up there, the genuine concern... isn't it nice to also realize that despite the advanced technology and physical separation of the Internet, people's basic compassion and humanity can still come through loud and clear?

By: jcterminal

jcterminal — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:31:10 -0800

pfft. "picturing greg fucking somebody else, which is now going to happen, is just more than i can take. it just hurts way too much. " oh jesus, so she decided to kill herself over the *concept* of her *ex-boyfriend* being *intimate with someone else*. why are we concerned with her? aren't there better things to talk about? like what colour i should paint my porch? once again, all i see is a bunch of people falling for the antics of another attention starved individual. camsites, suicide attempts... it's really all just the same isn't it? the only difference is you can't maintain your amazon wish list after you die. *** oh, and before i slip into some abestos, this isn't about depression, or suicide, or people with 'issues', this is about a single person (i.e, me), who has lived with or around this sort of behaviour for so long, he can smell a rat (i.e, hey let's move the webcam into the bathroom so my ex can see me eat flinstones chewables and i might make him feel guilty) from a few miles away. if i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. no big deal. we'll never meet each other, so really, we don't exist to one another. but if i *am* right, well, i'll be doing the nelson over it, and then moving on to the next net-trend just like everyone else.

By: elle

elle — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:25 -0800

this discussion cuts stacy a lot of slack. this guy's 'pathetic' fascination with camgirls aside, if one does not agree with the repulsion against morbid vanity (she avoided cutting her wrists to avoid scarring tattooable skin), there's still truth to what he says about the selfishness of suicide.

By: fraying

fraying — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:33:15 -0800

If that photo is for real, it's the most depressing thing I've seen all day. And the fact that I am doubting its reality is even more disturbing. And that link, man, that's the worst yet. That's it. I'm going outside.

By: perplexed

perplexed — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:57:10 -0800

Yeah, it's real, and yes she is in the hospital. And I have to say, had I not met Stacy at SXSW I would have probably been a bit cynical about the whole thing as well. She was/is pretty cool, and if these people met her I doubt they'd be giving her such a hard time. It's so easy to hate someone when you don't know them. Doubly so on the Internet.

By: vandoren

vandoren — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:02:59 -0800

I'm going to insert the best mean-bastard comment. It's all chlorine in the gene pool, 'cuz our lifeguard quit.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:03:51 -0800

there's still truth to what he says about the selfishness of suicide. There's also truth to "Fuck you, unless you've been there."

By: Jongo

Jongo — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:05:04 -0800

I agree. This skepticism about being attention seeking seems to be aggravated by the fact that the internet is involved

By: dogmatic

dogmatic — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:06:01 -0800

I'd hate this person if I did know her, if only because this is the kind of attention-starved manipulation that I used to deal with on a regular basis. Hopefully Greg will stay far far away. If this isn't a sick "take me back" ploy, I dunno what is.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:09:45 -0800

There's also truth to "Fuck you, unless you've been there." OK. Here's to taking a minute before hitting "POST". I apologize for that. What I meant to say is: What's "selfish" is expecting someone to live in the agony of severe depression just so those around her don't feel bad. She obviously needs help (assuming this is real), but condemning her because you don't understand what she's going through is wrong.

By: Fstop

Fstop — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:14:09 -0800

BwaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.... I must be a heartless bastard -- because this is HILARIOUS!

By: frykitty

frykitty — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:21:57 -0800

Okay, let's get a few things straight. Firstly, depression removes one's ability to deal rationally with a situation like a romantic breakup. I don't know Stacy, but from reading the things she wrote, it does not look like a pathetic cry for attention. It looks like a depressed person dealing the way we sometimes deal. Badly. Secondly, I hear a lot of criticism about her methods. When a depressed person tries suicide, it's about getting rid of the pain right now. You're not thinking straight--you just find the first thing you think will work. Depression is, unfortunately, an illness that is nearly impossible to understand unless you've been there. If you've never been clinically depressed, please understand it is nothing like when you feel unhappy. If you've ever received that phonecall in the night telling you someone you love dearly has just died, think about that moment. That's depression. How would you cope if you felt like that a lot?

By: fraying

fraying — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:35:14 -0800

What frykitty said. Plus, remember that we all have our own settings on the public/private slider. While it may seem strange to you to live your life in front of a webcam (including the bad times), there's nothing innately wrong about it. It's just a different setting on the slider. And just because someone chooses to webcast their life doesn't make them "pathetic." Actually, I find that quite brave.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:41:37 -0800

The late night phone call is a great analogy, frykitty, but i'm sure you'll agree it's not something that can be accurately described in words. it does not look like a pathetic cry for attention. It looks like a depressed person dealing the way we sometimes deal. Badly I think it's both. Often when depression is this sever, I think the person's only goal is for the pain to stop, one way or another. A suicide attempt offers two possible scenarios (or so it may seem at the time): One: You die. The pain has stopped. Yeah, so does everything else, but you're probably not around to realize it. Two: Somebody saves you and maybe, just maybe, magically makes the pain stop. In this case, maybe it's Greg. Maybe it's someone else. In reality, no one can take away the pain, but it's a chance he/she is willing to take, because, after all, see option one. The fact that she did it live on the 'net makes me feel that she probably didn't "really" want to die. She wanted to be happy. When someone is that depressed, the line between death and happiness is pretty thin.

By: moz

moz — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:52:15 -0800

it is true that there is selfishness in suicide -- selfishness, that is to say, from an objective, dissociated point of view. however, due to the nature of depression, i think that it's impossible to comment on stacy without considering her position. it's entirely possible that, when not as depressed as she was at the time of the attempt, stacy would have agreed with elle and dogmatic that suicide is selfish and a cry for attention. but frykitty is right. when you're depressed, your perception of the world around you is not the same as it might normally be. what might strike you as a disgusting play for attention yesterday may not seem so bad today. sadly, i have more experience with depression than i or perhaps most might care to, so i feel i can say those words with relative certainty. i don't mean to suggest that elle, or dogmatic, or those who generally agree that suicide is wrong because it is selfish are bad people. i can understand where they're coming from, because i once felt as they do. but when it comes to suicide, you cannot judge the act through your eyes alone.

By: justgary

justgary — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:01:25 -0800

And just because someone chooses to webcast their life doesn't make them "pathetic." Actually, I find that quite brave. I guess everyone has their own definition of brave.

By: Dreama

Dreama — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:04:17 -0800

why are we concerned with her? Because she's another person just trying to get by in this world whose story we have found out about? Because she's just like many of us? Because she's someone's daughter/sister/friend and she's obviously in a very bad place and could use a little concern, a little care, some good thoughts in a rotten time in her life? I'm sick to death of death. It's bad enough when you see it coming but when you try to force it along. . . I can't help but feel badly for a young woman in such depths. I hope she's getting the help she needs to get back from this.

By: maura

maura — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:44:22 -0800

um, i don't think the webcam was 'moved' -- according to reports, she has a few cams around her house, & they are motion sensitive ...

By: swell

swell — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:45:03 -0800

Performance art. Melodramatic? Sure. But still performance art. How does moving the webcam into the bathroom facilitate killing oneself, if indeed that's the goal?

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:49:04 -0800

The thing is, millions of people have contemplated suicide at some point. Even more people are 'depressed' or suffer from depression. It is fair to say that these people need some sort of help, but in today's society, it is hard to imagine every depressive person getting the help they need from others. On a daily basis we are rude to each other, we attack each other, and try to assert some sort of distance from others. The most important type of help is self-help. Because once you lose the ability to help yourself, you're on a slippery slope. Of course, in an ideal world, we'd all be nice to each other, we'd all be spiritual, we'd all be sensitive to others and have no egos.. but we just have to take it a step at a time. Until then, self help is the way, we all need to be 'fixed'. We all have problems. Don't put people on pedestals.

By: frykitty

frykitty — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:54:15 -0800

Wackybrit: telling someone with depression to help themselves is like handing a cancer patient a scalpel and telling them to go to it. Though you're certainly right in the sense that the person who needs help must seek it from the appropriate sources.

By: elle

elle — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:56:56 -0800

There's also truth to "Fuck you, unless you've been there." so you don't think suicide is selfish? and yes, i've been there.

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:03:51 -0800

Speaking from the viewpoint of a card-carrying unipolar depressive, I can tell you the pain of living combined with the pain of knowing how those around you are thinking of you is incredibly overwhelming. I can remember feeling as if I didn't even deserve the space I took up or the air I breathed. Often back in those days a romantic relationship was seen as a life raft against the darkness-and when one inevitably ended(come on now, we aren't a barrel of laughs when depressed) the pain of perceived rejection is just about more than we can bear. After a lot of work, prayer, growing up, counseling, and now antidepressants, I can now be like all the rest of you....a privilege I hope I never take for granted. Life is good now, I have a great family, and I would have lost so much if I had let the darkness win....but what I want you all to realize is just how hard this particular battle can be to fight, let alone achieve a victory. I pray she finds real peace.

By: lizardboy

lizardboy — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:30:05 -0800

i really, really hope this isn't true. as someone who is dealing with depression it hits me right in the heart to see someone lose the same fight. posted by will at 12:09 PM PST on July 12
keep fighting, Will. I beat it, and so can you.

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:14:02 -0800

[Hoping to strike the right note]: I sure could benefit from someone posting a link to a picture of a kitty; this a morbid thread... *sigh*

By: Spanktacular

Spanktacular — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:14:06 -0800

Suicide on the webcam? This is a new low for the "desperate for attention" category. What a complete fucking waste of bandwidth.

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:35:52 -0800

Stepping aside from the issues of depression, suicide, insensitivity and all of that for a moment, I find something intriguing and Mcluhan-esque about a person attempting suicide over the internet. She gave the voyeurs what they want most, total intimacy with their subject. Stacy did what snuff films, porn, and webcams in general have only hinted at up until now. Morbid as it may strike some of you, I find this to be a milestone in the medium.

By: davehat

davehat — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:01:13 -0800

dong: Milestone or not, this is bad. Anyone know how she's doing?

By: lotsofno

lotsofno — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:26:46 -0800

i really hope she is doing well... i'm just scared of the craziness that could ensue when the media gets a hold of and manipulates this story... it seems bigger than kaycee (at least from where i'm standing.).

By: m.polo

m.polo — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:27:22 -0800

I've tried since this afternoon to find a way to encapsulate my (highly cynical) feelings about this. As I was poking around the related discussion, I found out that someone else has already done it for me... Live by the 'cam, die by the 'cam, I suppose. Dong's right, though - this whole "I really know someone and deeply empathize with their situation because of how they present themselves on the Internet in public view" rollercoaster ride has hit an all time low with this stunt.

By: gramcracker

gramcracker — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:35:33 -0800

Thought experiment: Assume she did it for the attention. Okay, so she wants attention from her webcam viewers, wants their pity, wants whatever she wants, for whatever reason she has. Assume she did it because she's distressed, depressed, suicidal, or for some reason doesn't handle break-ups well. So she's got some other mental health problems that need to be worked out. Either way, the compassionate, caring ones of us should reach the same conclusion: She needs to be helped with her mental problems (either attention or psychosis), and she tried to end her own life. If your mother, father, brother, sister, or friend did this--for any reason--would the reason be important? The ones of you that are so cynical to this woman, and think she's doing it for attention might as well quit posting. You're just "fueling her fire." Don't judge until you've been there, to paraphrase jpoulos.

By: spandex

spandex — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:45:44 -0800

Her site's easily googled and there are updates on her condition, davehat. I dunno, I think the fact that it was all on webcam isn't weird. It's not so different than posting a daily journal which has an intimate account of your thoughts and feelings. I also thought that people who'd been around here way longer than I have, would be able to empathize with those making emotional attachments online. I'm not sure of this, but it may be one of her online friends that saved her life. If there's a person out there reading this thread, feeling hopeless and that no one would care, some of us do.

By: dogmatic

dogmatic — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:20:23 -0800

Tune in next week to see Stacy and Greg get back together again! Watch as Greg returns from the abyss to hug and comfort Stacy in her time of need. Tune in the following week to see them break up and have her try to commit suicide again! Watch as Greg leaves again because Stacy's being an overwhelming attention hog.

By: lotsofno

lotsofno — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:36:18 -0800

here's a link to her site, for those of you who were worrying. it will allay your fears. though she's currently in the hospital, she's alive and well.

By: MegoSteve

MegoSteve — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:38:39 -0800

People have been killing themselves in front of cameras for years, dong, so what she allegedly attempted to do was hardly groundbreaking work. (Bud Dwyer, for example. Or that nut who tried to kill Björk.) I'd hardly call it a milestone. More like a millstone.

By: palegirl

palegirl — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:19:55 -0800

this guy made an instructional videotape of how best to kill yourself shortly before he employed his own methods.

By: Opus Dark

Opus Dark — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:25:33 -0800

Man, there's a lot of cruel bravado Rand/Cheney jackshit thugs on the web. Girl hurts = problem. Girl attempts suicide = problem. Girl seeks attention = problem. And rises the web's ever-vigilant detritus, to mock and ridicule. Lotsa self-sufficientz with chemically inert brains who wouldn't survive two days without air-conditioning and antibiotics - they laugh and giggle and say don't waste my time girly - be tuff enuff or leave quietly. Surely wish the web were Gibsonesque enough to jack all you scoffing jerks into Stacy's psychosis with no way out. Way cool then, for sure, and unfiltered and screamingly fair and righteous...watch you squirm then, with max pleasure...

By: aaron

aaron — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:48:22 -0800

I apologize for that.

I see absolutely no reason for you to apologize for that. There are few people in this world more selfish than those that attempt to slap that label on the sucidal.

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:12:32 -0800

"People have been killing themselves in front of cameras for years, dong, so what she allegedly attempted to do was hardly groundbreaking work. " Cameras, not webcams . People have been killing themselves in print and radio too, but this is significant because of the way in which people who go to a webcam site interact with it's subject. This is what I meant by "Mcluhan-esque", the emotions and depth of experience unique to this medium. Talkn' `bout the net here, people. capital 'N'. Okay, if the paint fumes that so obviously inform clavdivs' work here on MeFI finally caught up to him and killed him, I'd feel that loss, because of the personality that his postings have formed in my mind. If Garry Trudeau snuffed it, I really wouldn't feel quite the same way, despite having read a lot more of his output over the years, because Doonesburry isn't as intimate a medium as, say, MeFi is. So, once again, I say this act represents a bit a milestone, one that probably won't be topped until an even more popular webcam personality actually does suicide all the way through in live streaming video. And for those of you who feel the need to point out that suffering is bad, and pain is terrible and that compassion is good... hey, wow, thanks. Maybe consider briefly that you're not getting the gist of my words, here.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:36:32 -0800

"...if the paint fumes that so obviously inform clavdivs' work here on MeFI finally caught up to him and killed him, I'd feel that loss...* *Big grin. And since this is already a cheerleader post, I agree with you completely, dong.

By: Rebis

Rebis — Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:08:22 -0800

I also want to express my agreement with dong_resin. Issues about suicide and depression are one thing. I cannot judge Stacy, I have never met her, and I never even saw her cam before today. But the fact that many people are now displaying their lives to the world in (almost) real time via webcam IS something new and different, and profound. Not just because it is something that didn't even exist ten years ago, but more importantly because it affects every aspect of how we think about private vs public, immediacy vs distance, and so on. What does it mean to 'know' somebody in this way, when we may not know them any other way? It's a profound question, even when somebody's life, as displayed on webcam, is completely uneventful. How much more so when something dramatic or shattering happens. When I have watched somebody's webcam over a period of time, there is something really really strange about how the person becomes in a sense familiar to me, while remaining at the same time a total stranger with whom I have never had any sort of actual contact, and who does not know me. I don't think older categories like 'voyeurism' quite capture the weirdness of the situation.

By: elle

elle — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:22:37 -0800

There are few people in this world more selfish than those that attempt to slap that label on the sucidal. hey, no punches below the belt. this was a punch below the belt because it offers no explanation on how people who say the suicidal are selfish are selfish, and it assumes that both the the suicidal and the people who call them selfish are all the same. not everyone who commits suicide have the same life, and for some, it's selfish in that they don't think of consequences their actions would wrought upon others; sadness, pain, despair, the same things they commit suicide for, in death, transferring it to people who love them. yes, you don't think about that if you've gone as far as the point of commiting, and some people don't have anyone. i don't think the author of the article's comments were really directed at stacy, it's how he perceives people who does this from his own experience. this predictably unpopular rant is conceived of a person who is emotionally irrational, too. if you can show sympathy for the suicidal, why can't you at least empathize for those who survive a loved one's suicide. please comment.

By: modofo

modofo — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:15:35 -0800

Webcams, to me, seem to be just a visual expression of the weblog phenomena. Perhaps a more useful (?) direction to take this thread would be an examination of the epidemic of depression, clinical or otherwise, in industrialized/wired/postmodern/western/metafilterian society. ...just a thought

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:47:43 -0800

By the way for those of you who have not checked out her site, she mentions that she suffers from bipolar......not a fun brain condition to have. From the research I have done it seems that it is not all that easy to adjust the meds to optimum effect...... Those of you who jeer and mock-well, you should be on your knees thanking God you have your health, mental or otherwise. I do hope she is feeling better.

By: will

will — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:50:06 -0800

first and foremost, thank you to everyone who has been supportive and encouraging. sometimes an email or message from someone you don't know can really turn things around. the truth is, after reading stacy's story i spent the rest of yesterday in a deeply depressed state. stacy's attempted suicide and some of the cold responses here on mefi really affected me. but what affected me more were the kind words, sharing of emotion and experiences. the words of those who have tried to explain depression in this thread have helped me understand my own. best of luck, stacy.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:01:08 -0800

it's selfish in that they don't think of consequences their actions would wrought upon others The fact is that, when one is reduced to that state, it is often virtually impossible to rationally consider the consequences of one's actions. To call someone "selfish" for not doing something he/she is incapable of doing is ridiculous. It's like calling a mute person "rude" for not saying "thank you". sadness, pain, despair, the same things they commit suicide for, in death, transferring it to people who love them There is nothing anyone could do to make me feel as bad as I did when I was in the grips of depression. Well, that's not entirely true. I have an 8 year old son. If he were torn apart by wolves before my eyes (!) I would feel worse, but that pain would eventually lessen. The horror of depression only intensifies with time. Suicide is always the wrong choice. There is almost always a combination of medicines and/or therapies that can help. But the very first thing that depression does is cloud one's judgement, and eliminate the idea of hope. In a sense, like HIV, it attacks your psychological immune system. Once, a "friend", having been on anti-depressants for several years, tried to wean himself off them. Within weeks, he was in the grips of severe depression. He was convinced, however, that he wasn't. He was miserable, but sincerely believed "this isn't depression, the world really is just a horrible place." He knew so much about the disease, but when he was caught up in it again, he couldn't recognize it. Only when he got back on the meds did he see how quickly the demon trickster had convinced him that there was no hope. Anyway, he lived happily ever after. But you get the idea.

By: rcade

rcade — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:39:56 -0800

While it may seem strange to you to live your life in front of a webcam (including the bad times), there's nothing innately wrong about it. I think there's something deeply wrong with dragging your webcam into the bathroom so people can watch your suicide attempts (though, ironically enough, it might end up saving her life because one of her long-distance enablers will always call police). This is at least the second time she has done this. It's sad that her friends and loved ones weren't able to do anything for her after the first live Internet suicide attempt. They might want to consider the possibility that the webcam is one of her biggest problems. As for the selfishness of suicide, do the depression sufferers in this thread think we do anyone a favor by claiming that it isn't? Suicide cures your problem by devastating the people who love you -- some of whom will be more likely afterward to attempt their own suicides. If people like Stacy can get help and recognize this fact, they'll be much less likely to try it.

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:23:17 -0800

In one sense I agree with you-but we need to be able to communicate that in a nonjudgemental tone. Yes suicide is incredibly selfish in one sense -but when one is severely depressed one has the idea that all the friends/loved ones would be better off with them dead. Yes, that is a horrible horrible lie, but one's thinking in that state is anything but normal. And it is true that there is more than one type of suicider....

By: cadence

cadence — Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:59:19 -0800

the whole cam phenomenon freaks me out, to be honest, and i'm a huge narcissist... if it freaks ME out, there's gotta be something bizarre about it. to this day i've spent maybe a total of one hour on cam sites in the past two or three years they've been a big deal. as much as i'm trying not to be heartless here, not only does the cam thing freak me out but so does the number of people online who suffer from 'depression' (that's an entirely different thing to discuss - i once worked for a pharmaceutical advertising agency. my department developed campaigns for medical journals and the like, to encourage doctors to prescribe our clients' 'medicines' to their patients... i have been suspicious of the millions of cases of diagnosed 'depression' ever since... but anyway...) at any rate, this whole stunt reeks of a combination of insanity, narcissism, and vast publicity stunt... i am not being unsympathetic - halcyon's right, i can't think of a better way for this girl to go than on her webcam... it doesn't mean i don't think it's sick tho, because i do...

By: Hildegarde

Hildegarde — Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:13:53 -0800

For god's sake. Living is selfish. To walk across the grass is selfish. Trying to kill yourself is a primal scream, and we're all allowed a few of those. I wish I'd gotten a nice letter like that from my last bitter breakup. But still. Breakups are tough, very very tough, and sometimes we're just not in a place to deal with them in the 'selfless' way people seem to want us to. As far as I'm concerned, the weakest thing to do is to shut up, stick your fingers in your ears, and pretend it's not happening. To open up your throat and wail, even at your weakest, is stronger than trying to deny it, trying to pretend it never happened. Deep down, all of us are weak, and all of us are strong. And it some times it takes strength just to take a breath when you wake up in the morning. But it's hardly fair to judge one another weak or strong; it only gives us half a picture. And why shouldn't she be on her cam? Why shouldn't she make a splash when she does it? When you feel as though no one cares, as though you're simply not loveable, there's something seductive and affirming about being in public. Is this a surprise? Of course not. Does a person who wants to die have to stop wanting to be loved? Do they have to stop seeing the value of it, even as they feel that they'll never achieve it? Anyway, I do think it's fascinating the way the internet builds communities. The fallout of something like this is endlessly interesting. (I'll not even mention Kaycee Nicole.)