Hollywood produces weird gays

March 8, 2010 12:00 PM

In The Advocate's interview with Will and Grace actor Sean Hayes the actor discusses what it was like to keep his sexuality an open secret, and what it was like to be pegged as "Just Jack" while also looking for leading man roles.

It reminds me of Gay Perry from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (movie scenes tangentally related and contain spoilers).

posted by The Devil Tesla (66 comments total)

what it was like being pegged as "Just Jack" while looking for leading man roles

umm...insufficient?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:17 PM on March 8, 2010

No one has an obligation to make their private life a public issue. Full Stop.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:20 PM on March 8, 2010

Well, I'd like to read past the first page, but it would appear service is unavailable.
posted by zizzle at 12:27 PM on March 8, 2010

what it was like being pegged as "Just Jack"

Insert casting couch joke here. Slowly.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:28 PM on March 8, 2010 [7 favorites]

load time=forever
posted by bam at 12:30 PM on March 8, 2010

Try the print view
posted by Karmakaze at 12:33 PM on March 8, 2010

Surprisingly (to me) hostile coverage and commentary at Gawker.
posted by Joe Beese at 12:33 PM on March 8, 2010

There was some debate over whether he was actually gay?
posted by empath at 12:33 PM on March 8, 2010

I chee what
posted by hal9k at 12:43 PM on March 8, 2010

Wait–that dude really is gay? I thought he was just playing a gay man. Really convincingly. All the time.
posted by Mister_A at 12:44 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Will and Grace is a curious show. The gay lead was played by a straight man, and was rather realistic, and the gay supporting character was played by a gay man and was 100% camp characiture.

Having seen Hayes as himself in interviews, he seems much more like Will than Jack. It must have been hard on some level to see a starring role you could have played be given to a straight actor when you're given the wacky sidekick who is also a stereotype. Then again, the Jack character made Hayes a name and Eric Mccormac didn't get much out of Will.
posted by mpbx at 12:54 PM on March 8, 2010

Surprisingly (to me) hostile coverage and commentary at Gawker.

I don't think that the commentary was all that hostile. Snarky, yes, but we know from snark here at mefi, right? Anyway, Sean Hayes saying that he was "monumental" to the gay rights is somewhat overstating it, methinks.

Wait–that dude really is gay? I thought he was just playing a gay man. Really convincingly. All the time.

I seem to remember a time (round about the time of that long lost -- not lamentably -- artifact of gay culture, "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss") when Mr. Hayes did not just coyly sit on the fence but actually intimated (never came right out and said) that he was straight-playing-gay. I may be wrong.
posted by blucevalo at 12:54 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

The title of this FPP: "Hollywood produces weird gays."

WTF does that mean? Sean Hayes is who he is and decided to keep his private life private until now.

And, FWIW, Hollywood does not produce gays. Sean knew who he was before he started his acting career.

Maybe you have an explanation for your offensive title?
posted by ericb at 12:59 PM on March 8, 2010 [10 favorites]

Years ago I read somewhere that he was straight, and after the initial surprise I've had no trouble believing that up until today. I've never seen him outside of Will and Grace though.
posted by tomcooke at 1:01 PM on March 8, 2010

You all know this has nothing to do with gayness right? He played a gay man on a show that was a cash cow for NBC. His agents and the studio execs don't care if he's gay or not, he MADE THEM A SHITTON OF $$. That's what typecasting is, they know you can make them money by being a certain way. Why do you think Tom Cruise is the same person in pretty much every movie he's in? Why do think Will Smith says "AWW HELL NAW" in most of his movies? (BadBoys, Men in Black, Wild Wild West, Independence Day, blah blah blah.)
posted by bam at 1:01 PM on March 8, 2010

"'People have the right to make personal decisions, and I think for him to deal with it now is exceedingly courageous,' says Howard Bragman, a public relations pro who specializes in advising high-profile clients who are coming out, as he did recently with Meredith Baxter. Bragman has not advised Hayes. 'The research says if somebody knows a gay person, they’re going to be more in favor of our civil rights,' Bragman says. 'And tens of millions of people know Sean and love him. This is an old friend telling us he’s gay, and it’s going to resonate.'"

Exactly.
posted by ericb at 1:03 PM on March 8, 2010

The difference between a star who always plays "themselves" and a character actor who plays a "type" is salary level.
posted by The Whelk at 1:04 PM on March 8, 2010

Hollywood produces weird gays

I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:05 PM on March 8, 2010

I do think it's a little weird that a gay man playing a flamboyantly gay character on a gay-centric sitcom on a gay network (sorry! I got carried away) would try to conceal his sexual identity from a viewing public that has already by and large assumed he is gay. But who are we to judge? If he doesn't care to publicly acknowledge that he's gay, fine by me, it's still a moderately funny show. Now that he has made it public, well, here is my surprised face...
posted by Mister_A at 1:06 PM on March 8, 2010

Of all the celebrities to come out after it mattered, is there anyone who has less of an excuse than Sean Hayes? The audience that he risked alienating was as close as you can get to zero in Hollywood.

It did not have to be a grand gesture; that would in fact have been stupid and obvious (as it is now). But to pick a recent example of what might have been: Chris Colfer is currently playing a gay character in Glee, and while we would have known anyway, he didn't waste our time by saying anything other than the truth about it.

To pick a less recent example: Megan Mullally came out as bi in an interview when Will & Grace was brand new. That probably was far riskier (there was no "duh" element), but it was a nonevent because she treated it like one.

Enough with the Profiles in Courage stuff. In terms of whether it was a smart career move: you don't get to be a celebrity if you won't play the game. If you won't divulge the vaguest details about your personal life even when they're ridiculously obvious, we won't talk about you. Just try getting work as an actor when people aren't talking about you.

Also: the fact that someone feels the need for him to do this is not a good sign for the Broadway revival of Promises, Promises.
posted by Epenthesis at 1:07 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

It looks just like my "Well done and good for you Sean Hayes" face.
posted by Mister_A at 1:09 PM on March 8, 2010

The Secret Lives of Queer Leading Men -- "How Howard Bragman, Hollywood’s coming-out guru, helps gay actors tell the truth."
posted by ericb at 1:09 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Years ago I read somewhere that he was straight, and after the initial surprise I've had no trouble believing that up until today.

Last month, I found out Roger Ebert was straight. I think at some point, I heard he was married to some dude named Chaz, mentally filed him under "gay", and never knew different until that Esquire article last month that called Chaz his "wife". And even at first, I was like, "Whoa, is that a thing? Call a dude a 'wife' just because he's married to another gay guy? That seems pretty offensive."
posted by Greg Nog at 1:10 PM on March 8, 2010 [8 favorites]

he difference between a star who always plays "themselves" and a character actor who plays a "type" is salary level.

I don't get it. You have no idea who Tom Cruise is as a real person, and neither do I. Actors work very hard to keep people like us from finding out what they are really like. Saying that stars are paid highly to just be themselves sounds like bs to me because we don't know what that is. So all actors are "character actors."
posted by bam at 1:11 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly.

Really? Tell that to Neil Patrick Harris, Ellen DeGeneres, David Hyde Pierce, T. R. Knight and all of the other gays/lesbians working in L.A. (as well as elsewhere in the entertainment business).
posted by ericb at 1:12 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also: the fact that someone feels the need for him to do this is not a good sign for the Broadway revival of Promises, Promises.

I thought that too. Let the show speak for itself. The producer says, "My feeling is, if Promises is as big a hit as I hope it will be, it’s a career-changing performance." That's a big if, especially given what happened to the last Neil Simon revival.
posted by blucevalo at 1:12 PM on March 8, 2010

Check your irony levels bam, "themselves" refers to the carefully created image, personae, and set of shorthand cues used to put various actors in boxes - my point was that Character Actors tend to be the short stick in terms of acclaim when most major stars are just characters at a higher pay grade and this relates to the trouble of an actor like Sean Hayes who is now feeling the pinch of being put in the "Just Jack" box for the rest of his career.
posted by The Whelk at 1:17 PM on March 8, 2010

I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly.

I can't keep quiet. That is an amazingly stupid and offensive comment. I have many friends who work in Hollwood (where I at one time lived with my late partner who was also "in the business'). And, yes, some of them include well known actors and musicians -- some out, others not.

Man, what an idiotic statement.
posted by ericb at 1:17 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Ericb, I don't think that the observation "hollywood produces weird people" was a comment about sexuality at all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:18 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Illustrators are told this too and It annoys the fuck out of me but I always see it pay off, get a reputation for being a certain style or thing and stick to that no matter what - be a brand and focus on your core identity and bullshit like that cause that's the only way people can understand you and figure out what they're buying. I hate it but it works - I can imagine an actor feeling very much the same way.
posted by The Whelk at 1:19 PM on March 8, 2010

I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly.

I think you have it backwards- I think you have to be a little crazy to pursue fame, which is why Hollywood is full of crazy people. The talented ones who really love their craft might survive the fame rollercoaster with a healthy, normal perspective on life, but many don't. The ones with no talent to speak of in the first place, well, that's where reality TV stars come from.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:19 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Ericb, I don't think that the observation "hollywood produces weird people" was a comment about sexuality at all.

Yes, I know, but to posit: "Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly" is just so idiotic.
posted by ericb at 1:26 PM on March 8, 2010

Oh, I get it...it's all about "Hollywood values." AMIRITE?
posted by ericb at 1:27 PM on March 8, 2010

The youngest of five kids raised by their divorced mother in a Chicago suburb, Hayes played classical piano (“I think I learned every sonata by Mozart”) and, like all his siblings, started auditioning for commercials at age 5 or 6 (“Looking back, it was probably for some extra money”).

I have never met Mr. Hayes. But he is from my hometown and I know his older sister quite well and went to school with her for 7 years. To say that she got a whole bunch of my answers in 7th grade science was an understatement. However, I think she thought it was because she was popular, but it really was becasue that science teacher was the most paranoid anti-cheating teacher ever. Was so committed to stamping it out. I gave Ms. Hayes nearly every answer on every test, it was easy and I loved getting one over on crazy Ms. Baird.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:28 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

The title of this FPP: "Hollywood produces weird gays."

WTF does that mean? Sean Hayes is who he is and decided to keep his private life private until now.

And, FWIW, Hollywood does not produce gays. Sean knew who he was before he started his acting career.

I don't think Hollywood made him gay, and I don't think that he did anything wrong by keeping things private.

Maybe you have an explanation for your offensive title?

It's the weird desire to be seen as masculine mixed with an embrace of femininity for social and career reasons. I think that Gay Perry, from those videos I linked in the more inside, probably exhibits that better than Sean Hayes, but I couldn't help but think of GP while reading the interview.

Yea, it's weird, but it's not totally bad. Gay Perry is one of my favorite movie characters like ever. But I have the impression that it's somewhat widespread in LA, that's all. I didn't mean to offend!
posted by The Devil Tesla at 1:29 PM on March 8, 2010

The ones with no talent to speak of in the first place, well, that's where reality TV stars come from.

Hey - some of my best friends are reality TV stars.
posted by tapeguy at 1:29 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

In tangentially related news: Florida Lawmaker Attempts To Deny Tax Credit To Movies Filmed With Gay Characters.
posted by ericb at 1:30 PM on March 8, 2010

The Devil Tesla -- thanks for your explanation.
posted by ericb at 1:30 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Yes, I know, but to posit: "Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly" is just so idiotic.

Yeah, but I see that as more of a garden-variety "actors are just weird sometimes", and they've been saying that about people in the entertainment history since Adam was a pup. It's wrong, but it's always been the perception.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:32 PM on March 8, 2010

BTW -- I was heartened to see a number of Oscar winners last night openly acknowledge their same-sex partners from the stage. And it was touching to see Precious director Lee Daniels give a lips-on-lips kiss to his partner, Billy Hopkins, when he got up from their table to accept his Oscar.
posted by ericb at 1:43 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Faint of Butt: “I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly.”

ericb: “Really? Tell that to Neil Patrick Harris, Ellen DeGeneres, David Hyde Pierce, T. R. Knight and all of the other gays/lesbians working in L.A. (as well as elsewhere in the entertainment business)... That is an amazingly stupid and offensive comment. I have many friends who work in Hollwood (where I at one time lived with my late partner who was also "in the business'). And, yes, some of them include well known actors and musicians -- some out, others not. ¶ Man, what an idiotic statement.”

I think you totally missed Faint of Butt's point, ericb. Look at the title of this thread – "Hollywood produces weird gays." If anything, that's what you should be pissed off at. Faint of Butt's point was: so what if Hollywood "produces weird gays?" The gays produced by Hollywood aren't any weirder than the straight people produced by Hollywood. Faint of Butt was in fact making the same point you are – that a person's weirdness in Hollywood has nothing to do with their sexuality, and it's sort of unfair to imply that it does.

This is very much in the spirit of Sean Hayes' point of view in the linked article, I think: Hayes keeps pointing out that it's really a sort of high-schooly harassment to follow somebody around and act as though who they choose to sleep with has something significant to do with their skill as an actor, but that's precisely what's happened to him. And in fact, as he points out, it never really mattered in any real sense whether he was gay or straight – what mattered is that he's a good actor. It would be nice if people got past their hangups enough to see that directly.
posted by koeselitz at 1:53 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

ericb: “Yes, I know, but to posit: "Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly" is just so idiotic.”

I simply do not understand what you're objecting to. Every single person I've ever met who did any amount of work in Hollywood at all has agreed with this statement; it's not an easy environment, and your personal life can suffer. How in god's name is this offensive or idiotic?
posted by koeselitz at 1:58 PM on March 8, 2010

"I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule. Anybody who makes a living there, regardless of sexual orientation, and manages to come out normal and well adjusted is an anomaly."

I'm a bit late to this party, but I've got to say that this statement is a bit out there in terms of generalizations, stereotypes, and just plain WTF!

My kid is out there, successful, and one of the nicest and most well adjusted person I know... his wife is in the business and is equally kind, generous, and sweet....as are most of the folks I've met through him.... gay or straight...
posted by HuronBob at 1:59 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Look at the title of this thread – "Hollywood produces weird gays." If anything, that's what you should be pissed off at.

Isn't that what he was pissed off at?
posted by blucevalo at 2:01 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

The ones with no talent to speak of in the first place, well, that's where reality TV stars come from.

Hey - some of my best friends are reality TV stars.

And talent is not God given.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:02 PM on March 8, 2010

There's weird and then there's weird, HuronBob. I'm pretty well-adjusted too, but even I sometimes wonder what on earth is wrong with my brain that I am willing to voluntarily go broke in pursuit of a career in an industry with something like an 80% unemployment rate.

By some scales I'm "weird", by others I'm "normal." It's all good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:02 PM on March 8, 2010

How in god's name is this offensive or idiotic?

If only your name were kliuless...
posted by mrgrimm at 2:03 PM on March 8, 2010

Ah. I think I understand.

Look, ericb: you can read "Hollywood makes you weird" in different ways. I can understand reading that (and the comment by Faint of Butt) and seeing something like "Hollywood people are really awful, messed-up people who you wouldn't want to spend any time with." And that would be idiotic, even offensive, at least unfairly dismissive. But – you might also just read that as a statement about the climate in Hollywood, and not as a moralist or normative statement at all. And in that sense, I think a lot of people in Hollywood would probably agree with it in spades. I have never met the man, nor do I presume that I know anything about how he thinks and feels about stuff, but I imagine that if you asked Tom Cruise if Hollywood at large has treated him swell and allowed him to have a wonderful, healthy private life, giving him all the space he needs to be fulfilled... I think he'd probably laugh long and hard. Of course it hasn't. The climate is relentless, it's invasive, it makes peoples' lives difficult, and yes, I think it's hard not to let it impact your personal life. It's possible to say that without at all stating or implying some moral judgment about the people who go through that.

And given that the theme of the linked article is the capricious way in which the Hollywood climate treats people and invades their private lives, I really don't think anybody here was trying to make a moral judgment about anyone in particular. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by koeselitz at 2:11 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

And it was touching to see Precious director Lee Daniels give a lips-on-lips kiss to his partner, Billy Hopkins, when he got up from their table to accept his Oscar.

Lee Daniels didn't win an Oscar.
posted by Awkward Philip at 2:15 PM on March 8, 2010

Hollywood attracts outsize personalities, celebrates eccentricity, and can be pretty stressful. So of course, the people who live and work there will seem unusual.
posted by delmoi at 2:23 PM on March 8, 2010

Also: the fact that someone feels the need for him to do this is not a good sign for the Broadway revival of Promises, Promises.

I don't care if the leads are Gary Coleman and Elvira - I get to see "Turkey Lurkey Time" in living color over the next two months and that makes me one ecstatic little camper.
posted by mintcake! at 2:28 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

The title of this FPP: "Hollywood produces weird gays."

No, Glen Ellyn, Illinois produces weird gays.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:31 PM on March 8, 2010

I think it's safe to say that Hollywood produces weird people as a rule.

Back to my earlier comment, the same HS has produced Laurie Anderson, Bobby Rahal, Larry Shue, Triple Fast Action, Ted Wass, and the following asshole Republicans: Samuel Bodman and Peter Roskam. So it is the place, most certainly.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:35 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Now I know you ain't talkin' smack on Bobby Rahal!
posted by Mister_A at 2:38 PM on March 8, 2010

Florida Lawmaker Attempts To Deny Tax Credit To Movies Filmed With Gay Characters.

So, I've actually avoided going to Miami for YEARS cause of crap like this (and cause I am made of flash paper and not fit to be seen in a bathing suit outside the 1880s) has it had any effect on the gay club scene there, cause now I want to avoid Florida even more. Can Key West just become a commonwealth or something so I can go there?
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Sometimes actors play the character for which they initially become famous too convincingly. After becoming familiar with Larry Linville via M*A*S*H whenever I would subsequently see him in a movie of the week or making a guest appearance on Love Boat I thought "Hey! Ferret Face".
posted by vapidave at 3:00 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

I am sick and tired of has-beens and never weres coming out when it is convient for their careers to do so, and codes/glass closets and open secrets when it is not convient for them to do so. It sends the message that glbtq folks should be ashamed of who they are, and it feeds into the complete dearth of solid material for them. It would be much more important if Anderson Cooper or Jodie Foster or Queen Latifah or anyone else in that Michael Musto glass closet article said the words that everyone knows--but it would be even better if a new generation of young Hollywood finally said fuck the closet, if Renner brought who he was actually fucking to the Oscars, or Quinto stopped playing coy games with us via the paps and told someone other then the Advocate that he loves the cock.
posted by PinkMoose at 3:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]

Lee Daniels didn't win an Oscar.

You're right. My mistake. It was Geoffrey Fletcher (Oscar for Writing -- Adapted Screenplay) who gave the lips-on-lips kiss to the guy on his left when getting up to accept his award.
posted by ericb at 3:26 PM on March 8, 2010

BTW -- Geoffrey Fletcher is the first African American screenwriter to earn an Academy Award.
posted by ericb at 3:27 PM on March 8, 2010

It was Geoffrey Fletcher (Oscar for Writing -- Adapted Screenplay) who gave the lips-on-lips kiss to the guy on his left when getting up to accept his award.

Sorry to keep picking on you, but are you sure? In this clip, it looks like he's sitting between two women. He hugs both of them, plus the guy sitting two seats to his left. Doesn't look like he kissed anyone.
posted by Awkward Philip at 4:17 PM on March 8, 2010

Sorry to keep picking on you, but are you sure?

...give a lips-on-lips kiss to his partner, Billy Hopkins, when he got up from their table to accept his Oscar.

Oh, duh! I'm an idiot. I'm confusing the Oscars with the Film Independent's '25^th Spirit Awards' show which was broadcast on IFC on Friday evening. The "kiss" was when Lee Daniels left the table (mentioned above -- and there indeed aren't tables at the Academy Awards) to accept the Best Director award. I had watched the IFC show broadcast on my TiVo just hours before watching the Oscars. I "blended" my memories. The wine obviously didn't help.
posted by ericb at 5:31 PM on March 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

So anyway, back to Sean Hayes.

I think his claiming that simply playing Jack made him a Groundbreaking Way-Paver For Equality was maybe a tad bit exaggerated...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Magazine digs for secret about celebrity. Celebrity thinks too much of himself. Film at 11.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 8:04 PM on March 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

That sarcasm and anger cover up years of genuinely hurt feelings. “Why would you go down that path with somebody who’s done so much to contribute to the gay community?” he asks. “That was my beef about it. What more do you want me to do? Do you want me to stand on a float? And then what? It’s never enough.

Sorry, but yeah, a float would've been nice, honestly. Am I missing some great service he performed for the gay community?

I certainly respect people not allowing the details of their personal life to be exploited for gossip fodder, but I have to say that this wink-wink closet thing tends to make me a little irritated and sad. I thought that the point was that we queers come out of the closet and normalize it by being unashamed people in the mainstream community. I see this "open secret" business being used too often as "evidence" that being gay is still recognized as shameful -- even by teh gays!
posted by desuetude at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2010 [3 favorites]

Good grief, of all the comments I've made on MetaFilter, I didn't expect that one to create a shitstorm. Yes, koeselitz gets my point-- when I say that Hollywood makes people weird, it has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's just the culture and the industry, and weirdness is in no way a bad thing. Some people in the Hollywood universe are weird in cool ways (Neil Patrick Harris, Wil Wheaton, Roger Ebert), while others are weird in ways that I think are deeply uncool (Tom Cruise, John Travolta). Those who are not weird in any way at all are few and far between. I'm an actor myself, and while I've never worked in Hollywood I do know and work with people who have, and we are all weird. I stand by my statement, and if I could make one retraction it would be to replace "anomaly" with "minority," as I think my previous word choice was a bit too harsh.

If you were offended by my comment because you thought it was insulting to people in Hollywood, I apologize for not making myself clearer. If you were offended by my comment because you thought I was expressing homophobic beliefs in any way, I do not apologize, because you just flat-out misunderstood me.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:53 AM on March 9, 2010

“That was my beef about it. What more do you want me to do? Do you want me to stand on a float? And then what? It’s never enough."

No, it's never enough. Poor Sean. The violins bleed for you.
posted by blucevalo at 8:50 AM on March 9, 2010