July 13, 2001

2:35 PM

July 17th - The Day That Counts.These people have a plan to make their feelings known on the issue of public money being diverted to religious organizations. I had no idea that the atheists were so organized! Is this sort of thing a tremendous waste of time, or do you think it can, or will affect policy discussions?
posted by kristin (11 comments total)

That's great...thanks for the link, kristin. My wife and I are becoming increasingly irritated with the government's blurring of the separation of church and state. It's amazing that while some politicians are so pro-pro-pro-Bill of Rights when it comes to some rights (right to bear arms), they are, at the same time, ignorant of others. Hey, Mr./Mrs. Elected Official: Our Constitution is a take-it-or-leave-it set of laws! If you don't like one of the laws/rights, then follow the rules to change the Constitution and see if 3/4 of the states agree with you. You don't just ignore the ones you don't like as policy gets made.
posted by msacheson at 2:59 PM on July 13, 2001

I had no idea that the atheists were so organized!

They're not. About 10% of the population is non-religious be it atheist, agnostic, or whatever. What's curious here is the "us vs. them" mentality. Its a nice little rallying call, but it completely alienates those who may call a religion their own and disapprove of Bush's faith spending. I'm sure there's more than 27 million people in that group.

As an agnostic I certainly don't see the "us vs. them" threat as much as Bush cozying up to the more conservative religious groups who can offer so much more than money in 2004 - votes. Nothing like going out to vote in a brand new church bus.
posted by skallas at 3:13 PM on July 13, 2001

Such a cloudy issue! First, I believe that the so-called "third leg" (three legs: public, private, charitable) of charitable organizations (even religious ones) can do a better job than the feds or perhaps even the state of providing services to many of the country's needy. I'd wager such charitable organizations can do it more efficiently & more effectively. However...as a lifelong atheist who is appalled at the sheer number of people who claim that belief in "god/allah/etc" is a virtue, this initiative by Bush & Co disturbs me. I appreciate that he is trying to make government more efficient/effective by allowing non-governmental groups to have a larger slice of the pie, so to speak, but doing it on my dime just sends chills down my spine. On balance, I believe it is not a good thing (theory), although some good (practical) things may come of it. Hope that makes sense.
posted by davidmsc at 3:47 PM on July 13, 2001

*sigh*

client vouchers
posted by rebeccablood at 3:51 PM on July 13, 2001

Of course July 17 counts! That's my birthday. But seriously folks, while I am in no way an atheist (I always thought that took almost as much faith), I am disturbed by the assault on the wall that separates church and state. Great link to explore.
posted by trox at 5:16 PM on July 13, 2001

As an agnostic personally, an unreligious person. But as a person, I respect other people's beliefs. (So long as they don't tell me about how much better they are, or how I am going to hell for my various sins, of which, my most religions counts, I have many.)

Faith based charity just is a bad idea. (1) Will the money truly be seperated? I doubt it. (2) Will "hell" come up as a way to make drug addicts stop? Probably. (3) Will legitimate religions be excluded because they are legitimate enough in the eyes of "President" Bush? Most likely.

What if I want to start a charity group based on a sole grounds of no religion at all? Do I then not qualify? Or do I, but with less preference?
posted by benjh at 5:48 PM on July 13, 2001

Sometimes I wonder why I link-through... Coming Out As An Athiest. Do I have to come out as an agnostic? Damnit, I already came out two or three times this lifetime, isn't that enough? (Sorry, blind rant... silly moment)
posted by benjh at 5:52 PM on July 13, 2001

I don't believe in God, but Atheism is about the silliest thing anyone can get involved in. Bunch of dorks.
posted by dopamine at 8:27 AM on July 14, 2001

dopamine: Do you mean atheism as an "organized" institution is silly, like organized religion? And if you don't believe in god, doesn't that make you...one of us?
posted by davidmsc at 8:49 AM on July 14, 2001

you don't get involved in atheism, it is simply a classification like male/female or employer/employee. you either are or you aren't.
posted by ggggarret at 11:19 AM on July 14, 2001

davidmsc: You would think, wouldn't you?
posted by dopamine at 9:02 PM on July 14, 2001