The Ballad of Johnny D
March 23, 2010 1:44 PM Subscribe
I've never seen a cache fail so thoroughly, perhaps as the result of abuse.
posted by Shepherd at 1:48 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Shepherd at 1:48 PM on March 23, 2010
Cache worked for me, and I copied the text and the YouTube links (poorly) here.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2010
The cache works if you click on the no images version.
posted by idiopath at 1:56 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by idiopath at 1:56 PM on March 23, 2010
No, it doesn't.
posted by longsleeves at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by longsleeves at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2010
Thanks for the copy, flt!
posted by BobFrapples at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by BobFrapples at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2010
In short; open mic comic bombs, gets roasted by next comics, but yells back instead of keeping quiet, and in doing so makes the experience more fun (for others). Also, writer likened the comic to his first shitty punk band he was in, who are now a noise-punk band recognized by at least one guy in Greece.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:11 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 2:11 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: I have never seen a man fail so thoroughly and just keep taking this kind of abuse.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:12 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:12 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but if you go to West Allis expecting entertainment of any quality, you've already lost the game.
posted by desjardins at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Well, I can't say I much liked this story. I suppose it's whole sneering tone turned me off, coupled with its "but maybe he can one day turn into the awesome noise rocker I am" denoument that felt about as genuine as the little morality lessons that Jerry Springer gives his audience at the end of every show, as though there was some value to wallowing in filth.
I suppose the story might not have been as bad as I am reading it, although it really seemed to be taking pleasure in trashing a performer for bombing (and for not knowing the etiquette of bombing). I've been in and around stand-up comedy circles for years, and many of these people seem to be studying Del Close and the like when they should be studying Freud. There's just some angry, shallow egos that gravitate toward stand-up, and there's a sort of permanent one-upmanship that goes on among some comedians I know, where succeeding is never so pleasurable unless somebody else fails.
I mean, I love stand-up. It's a really remarkable form, when done well -- just a guy and a mic and a challenge, which is what comedy frequently is, when it's good: a challenge to reconsider our presumptions. But a lot of comedians can't muster that, and aren't in it to communicate the challenge, but instead to milk cheap laughs from drunks out of a bottomless well of bitterness and sarcasm. It's certainly not every comedian, but it's surprisingly frequent nowadays, and so it's sort of turned me off to the genre. And so seeing this, which is rooted in mocking somebody for what really strikes me as a sort of minor act of mediocrity and misbehavior, leaves me with sort of a bad taste in my mouth.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
I suppose the story might not have been as bad as I am reading it, although it really seemed to be taking pleasure in trashing a performer for bombing (and for not knowing the etiquette of bombing). I've been in and around stand-up comedy circles for years, and many of these people seem to be studying Del Close and the like when they should be studying Freud. There's just some angry, shallow egos that gravitate toward stand-up, and there's a sort of permanent one-upmanship that goes on among some comedians I know, where succeeding is never so pleasurable unless somebody else fails.
I mean, I love stand-up. It's a really remarkable form, when done well -- just a guy and a mic and a challenge, which is what comedy frequently is, when it's good: a challenge to reconsider our presumptions. But a lot of comedians can't muster that, and aren't in it to communicate the challenge, but instead to milk cheap laughs from drunks out of a bottomless well of bitterness and sarcasm. It's certainly not every comedian, but it's surprisingly frequent nowadays, and so it's sort of turned me off to the genre. And so seeing this, which is rooted in mocking somebody for what really strikes me as a sort of minor act of mediocrity and misbehavior, leaves me with sort of a bad taste in my mouth.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
Sorry, but if you go to West Allis expecting entertainment of any quality, you've already lost the game.
The first band I was ever in played our first show in West Allis, so...
I guess you're right.
This is probably the first time someone I've known IRL has had something they've written posted to Metafilter.
posted by drezdn at 2:17 PM on March 23, 2010
Insult an awful open-mic comic to his face, and you gets laughs for one night.
Cheer for an awful open-mic comic and laugh into your drink, and you get laughs week after week.
Light a fire for a man and he's warm for a few hours. Light a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
(Paraphrased and stolen shamelessly from Terry Pratchett.)
posted by kmz at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Cheer for an awful open-mic comic and laugh into your drink, and you get laughs week after week.
Light a fire for a man and he's warm for a few hours. Light a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
(Paraphrased and stolen shamelessly from Terry Pratchett.)
posted by kmz at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
No offense, drezdn. Some of my best friends went to Nathan Hale.
posted by desjardins at 2:21 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by desjardins at 2:21 PM on March 23, 2010
Desjardins, that's actually where our first show was (and my brother went to HS).
posted by drezdn at 2:23 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by drezdn at 2:23 PM on March 23, 2010
This article will take on a whole different meaning when it turns out that Johnny D is part of an Improv Everywhere splinter group.
posted by drezdn at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by drezdn at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2010
Funny you should mention that, AZ. My partner and I were just discussing this book, which (I am told) is basically 200 pages of "Seriously? You think that reading a BOOK will help you do standup comedy?? Who ARE you???"
("Who ARE these people?")
Goddammit, why can't I link to that "Stand Up and Win" skit?
posted by Madamina at 2:34 PM on March 23, 2010
("Who ARE these people?")
Goddammit, why can't I link to that "Stand Up and Win" skit?
posted by Madamina at 2:34 PM on March 23, 2010
All his life Johnny D had wanted to do standup so badly...
posted by Flashman at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Flashman at 2:44 PM on March 23, 2010
Going on ten years ago my wife and I went to an open mike night at a bar in Toronto to see a friend of hers play. The performers were a pretty standard lot for that type of evening, but then this college-age kid got up and did a few minutes of standup. His very first joke out of the gate garnered exactly zero laughs. Not a fucking sound. His entire set went down like that; not a single giggle, chuckle or sympathy laugh. No-one even heckled him. The longest joke in his act, the one he'd clearly worked on the most, was a vaguely racist (against Arabs; I say "vaguely" because it didn't make any sense and I'm not 100% it was racist) story that ended with the punchline "Why don't you go fuck a goldfish?" Again, total silence. When he came to the end of his performance he said "Thank you, good night," walked off the stage and right out the front door.
On one hand this dude was the worst comedian I've ever seen or heard, but on the other I will never forget what I witnessed that night.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
On one hand this dude was the worst comedian I've ever seen or heard, but on the other I will never forget what I witnessed that night.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
to milk cheap laughs from drunks out of a bottomless well of bitterness and sarcasm
Dude - that's my middle name!
- It's Raining the Milk of Cheap Laughs from Drunks Out of a Bottomless Well of Bitterness and Sarcasm Down on Florence Henderson!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Dude - that's my middle name!
- It's Raining the Milk of Cheap Laughs from Drunks Out of a Bottomless Well of Bitterness and Sarcasm Down on Florence Henderson!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Great comment, AZ, couldn't agree more. The interesting part was Johnny D's anger at the audience for not laughing and his reckless hubris in challenging them. The former is all too common but that kind of Tex Cobb-like pain tolerance is rare, for good reason.
I wish this had gone more into the guy's self-destructive instinct.
posted by msalt at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2010
I wish this had gone more into the guy's self-destructive instinct.
posted by msalt at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2010
There are some days when you need to see stand up comics bombing in front of their mothers. You derive a strange gratification from poker pro Matusow crying. You like seeing matadors gored just as the failed writer in Amélie did. And when they called him a failure, he said:
‹Ah oui, oui, «écrivain raté»... destin raté... comme j’aime ce mot: «raté.» La destinée humaine s’accomplit comme ça: en ratant.›
'A yes, "failed writer"... missed destiny... I love this word: "failed." All of human destiny is fulfilled in failure.'
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 3:05 PM on March 23, 2010
‹Ah oui, oui, «écrivain raté»... destin raté... comme j’aime ce mot: «raté.» La destinée humaine s’accomplit comme ça: en ratant.›
'A yes, "failed writer"... missed destiny... I love this word: "failed." All of human destiny is fulfilled in failure.'
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 3:05 PM on March 23, 2010
And I felt a kinship with poor, wasted, not-quite-good-natured, amazing DJ Hostettler, because I was in his shoes once upon a time. And when one of the other commenters finally acknowledged DJ’s titanium balls by saying “I have never seen a man fail so thoroughly and just keep taking this kind of abuse,” I shared in his begrudging, surreal respect for this guy and his uncanny aura of fuck you all. Who knows—maybe he’ll actually learn from this and develop into an amazing writer whose mom won’t have to slink away in shame while her son slides into a smug self-satisfied abyss of mixed metaphors on a mid-sized rustbelt city's community arts blog. Maybe this was what will turn him into the next Chuck Klosterman.
I mean, I really doubt it, but wouldn’t it be cool?
posted by felix betachat at 3:06 PM on March 23, 2010
I mean, I really doubt it, but wouldn’t it be cool?
posted by felix betachat at 3:06 PM on March 23, 2010
My partner and I were just discussing this book, which (I am told) is basically 200 pages of "Seriously? You think that reading a BOOK will help you do standup comedy??
Jay Sankey's book is an excellent primer for any beginning comic, despite the hack title. Short and sweet, based on 20+ years of stage time, simple practical advice on everything from joke writing to set structure to when you should eat before your set.
It's the only book on the subject worth reading, IMHO.
posted by msalt at 3:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Jay Sankey's book is an excellent primer for any beginning comic, despite the hack title. Short and sweet, based on 20+ years of stage time, simple practical advice on everything from joke writing to set structure to when you should eat before your set.
It's the only book on the subject worth reading, IMHO.
posted by msalt at 3:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
All I have to say is the author of that piece feels the show "Lucky Louie" was "criminally underrated." Good Lord.
Louis C.K. is Johnny D, and yet somehow he's made a ton of money and is semi-famous. I've seen him appear on Letterman and do what this guy did: get absolutely zero laughs. And not because he was really "edgy" or original, either. He just didn't say anything even close to funny.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2010
Louis C.K. is Johnny D, and yet somehow he's made a ton of money and is semi-famous. I've seen him appear on Letterman and do what this guy did: get absolutely zero laughs. And not because he was really "edgy" or original, either. He just didn't say anything even close to funny.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2010
Amateur stand up is a rough business. Everything about it pains me on multiple levels. I can't stand bearing witness to awkwardness, even vicariously. Sure, it's what they want to do - or think they want to to do - but when you meat a guy or girl who says "I'm a comedian" you're immediately thrown into a different state of mind and if they can't make you laugh you figure, well, you fucking suck. 'Course, you meet a doctor at a party and it would be pretty uncharitable for you to call them an asshole for not popping your piles back in, but with comedians - or writers, or musicians - they can either make you laugh or "What have you written/performed? Anything I'd know?" and if your experience is flat thereafter it's almost like you dismiss them as serious people. They're rank amateurs or posers or flibidigibbets. I guess because there's no accountability. You can say you're a doctor and you've got the badge to prove it, but say you're a comedian and it's like "Whatever, buddy." And by the time they're good, if they ever get that far, which they probably won't, you've already convinced yourself that they fucking suck, and I just think that's a shame somehow. Dan Brown could tomorrow write the greatest piece of literature the world has ever seen but I'd still want to punch him in the asshole if I ever had the opportunity because, boy, I hate it when people go from failure to success on my personal metric.
Reading over what I've just written, I'm glad I never introduce myself to people as "A Clear Explainer Of Ideas And Opinions Which Have Been Developed Along Logical Trains Of Thought."
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:13 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
Reading over what I've just written, I'm glad I never introduce myself to people as "A Clear Explainer Of Ideas And Opinions Which Have Been Developed Along Logical Trains Of Thought."
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:13 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
As for the scenario described, it can't be any worse than what I've seen pretty much every time I've been dragged to mainstream comedy venues. It just can't. A short list of highlights:
1) A bombing "comedian" responds to a heckler by saying "oh yeah? You're a faggot!" I literally thought a fight was going to break out.
2) One of a pair of D-list twin brother comedians is performing, badly. A girl gets up to walk out and he calls her a "bitch." She turns back and responds to his question about why she's leaving by saying, "because you're not funny!" After the show, I go in the bathroom and see the "comedian" shaking in front of the mirror, trying to pull himself together.
3) One of the "comedians" on the bill is the guy from "Real World L.A." who is most famous for pulling the blanket off the girl and getting kicked out. He is just as angry in life as on TV, and stops his act to curse at hecklers.
That Kramer thing? That was more the norm that the exception. The combination of unfunny people, fragile egos, yokels, and mandatory alcohol consumption is just toxic. Mainstream comedy clubs are a circle of hell, they really are.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
1) A bombing "comedian" responds to a heckler by saying "oh yeah? You're a faggot!" I literally thought a fight was going to break out.
2) One of a pair of D-list twin brother comedians is performing, badly. A girl gets up to walk out and he calls her a "bitch." She turns back and responds to his question about why she's leaving by saying, "because you're not funny!" After the show, I go in the bathroom and see the "comedian" shaking in front of the mirror, trying to pull himself together.
3) One of the "comedians" on the bill is the guy from "Real World L.A." who is most famous for pulling the blanket off the girl and getting kicked out. He is just as angry in life as on TV, and stops his act to curse at hecklers.
That Kramer thing? That was more the norm that the exception. The combination of unfunny people, fragile egos, yokels, and mandatory alcohol consumption is just toxic. Mainstream comedy clubs are a circle of hell, they really are.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I forgot to add I was once forced to sit down front, and got picked on by a very unfunny woman with one arm.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2010
"got picked on by a very unfunny woman with one arm." is my new favorite expression. For something. Still working on it.
posted by lumpenprole at 3:21 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lumpenprole at 3:21 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I thought the link was going to be a repost of the guy trying to get inside the giant balloon.
posted by snofoam at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by snofoam at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2010
here comes a bunch of anecdotally based generalized opinions, phrased as facts, but intended as just mho; yes there are many, many exceptions, but spend a few years hanging out with stand-ups in the trenches and I think you'll understand where I'm coming from:
By and large, stand-up is a lost art form. Most of the 'humor' you see in a club will be based on the tensions built-up by being around socially inappropriate ('naughty') behavior. Discussing masturbation makes most people uncomfortable. Pretty much the very next said that isn't cancer-serious will trigger a laugh in people looking to relieve the discomfort. Another tactic is to find aid and comfort for otherwise frowned on behavior ('Who here likes BEER!?!'). Finally, there's us-against-them, playing on differences between peoples that just feels right when everyone else is telling you it's wrong to put others down. A "good" comedian can hit the trifecta and cover all three with a line like "Am I the only person who gets nervous when I sit next to a rag-head on a plane??"
The real tragedy is that stand-up is incredible as a platform for free speech. There's hardly any other profession, including other arts, where dissent and truly poignant alternate perspectives are allowed and encouraged. The opportunity for real social commentary is not unique to stand-up, but I can't think of another medium that is so ripe for it in terms of acceptance.
Unlike the music industry which victimizes its artists, I don't see where comedians have anyone to blame but themselves. Since it isn't a collaborative art-form and they don't have any expenses for equipment all they have to do is connect with the audience. For some reason they have chosen hostility toward their audience and worse, toward each other, as a way to connect.
Artists tend to be outsiders to begin with, driven, often, by a need for acceptance on a grand scale, but comedians are an especially damaged crew. Most of the ones I've met don't know how to socially interact in any way other than defensively. I know of several, only slightly damaged people, no more than your average rock-star wanna-be, who are very funny, quick witted sharp minds that couldn't hack it in the toxic stand-up world. Too bad.
posted by victors at 3:52 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
By and large, stand-up is a lost art form. Most of the 'humor' you see in a club will be based on the tensions built-up by being around socially inappropriate ('naughty') behavior. Discussing masturbation makes most people uncomfortable. Pretty much the very next said that isn't cancer-serious will trigger a laugh in people looking to relieve the discomfort. Another tactic is to find aid and comfort for otherwise frowned on behavior ('Who here likes BEER!?!'). Finally, there's us-against-them, playing on differences between peoples that just feels right when everyone else is telling you it's wrong to put others down. A "good" comedian can hit the trifecta and cover all three with a line like "Am I the only person who gets nervous when I sit next to a rag-head on a plane??"
The real tragedy is that stand-up is incredible as a platform for free speech. There's hardly any other profession, including other arts, where dissent and truly poignant alternate perspectives are allowed and encouraged. The opportunity for real social commentary is not unique to stand-up, but I can't think of another medium that is so ripe for it in terms of acceptance.
Unlike the music industry which victimizes its artists, I don't see where comedians have anyone to blame but themselves. Since it isn't a collaborative art-form and they don't have any expenses for equipment all they have to do is connect with the audience. For some reason they have chosen hostility toward their audience and worse, toward each other, as a way to connect.
Artists tend to be outsiders to begin with, driven, often, by a need for acceptance on a grand scale, but comedians are an especially damaged crew. Most of the ones I've met don't know how to socially interact in any way other than defensively. I know of several, only slightly damaged people, no more than your average rock-star wanna-be, who are very funny, quick witted sharp minds that couldn't hack it in the toxic stand-up world. Too bad.
posted by victors at 3:52 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
> By and large, stand-up is a lost art form.
Someone - I forget who - once said (I'm paraphrasing here) "Anyone can get up and tell a sad story about someone dying of cancer and have the audience in tears. But how many people can pull off five minutes of good standup comedy?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:00 PM on March 23, 2010
Someone - I forget who - once said (I'm paraphrasing here) "Anyone can get up and tell a sad story about someone dying of cancer and have the audience in tears. But how many people can pull off five minutes of good standup comedy?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:00 PM on March 23, 2010
I was expecting this to be Tiger Wood's most recent interview. Happy it isn't.
posted by deacon_blues at 4:01 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by deacon_blues at 4:01 PM on March 23, 2010
drjimmy, my experience with amatuer comedy is pretty opposite of that.
i mean ive seen some crazy shit, but on the whole comedians are kind to each-other and support each-other. perhaps at slightly bigger or dumber venues people are drunk and rude, but most small open mics are just a bunch of comics trying stuff out--they're at least polite.
however, every now and then something insane does go down, and this is a pretty accurate representation of the mixture of sad, hilarious, terrible, and sympathetic results.
also, louis ck is a god
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:08 PM on March 23, 2010
i mean ive seen some crazy shit, but on the whole comedians are kind to each-other and support each-other. perhaps at slightly bigger or dumber venues people are drunk and rude, but most small open mics are just a bunch of comics trying stuff out--they're at least polite.
however, every now and then something insane does go down, and this is a pretty accurate representation of the mixture of sad, hilarious, terrible, and sympathetic results.
also, louis ck is a god
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:08 PM on March 23, 2010
louis ck is a god
Must be some form of kitchen god, then. Can he cook?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2010
Must be some form of kitchen god, then. Can he cook?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2010
victors: standup is a lost art form?
maybe it was dying for a while but the past 5 years have experienced a massive resurgence of amazingly creative and artistic indie comedy.
Eugene Mirman, Patton Oswalt, Demetri Martin, Maria Bamford, I could list hundreds of boundary-pushing hilarious comics and those are just the successful ones! I know you said there are many exceptions, but i guess i see comedy as going through a golden age right now, with just more massive success to come in the next decade. Zach fucking Galifianakis is Hollywoods biggest rising star right now. I mean WTF, the dude's even too abstract for me.
i know you've got a lot more experience than I in the field, but others have noted that the shift from the comedy club focused on two drink minimums to more artistry-centered establishments like rock clubs and small theaters. There's more funny and innovative stand-up going on wherever you are now than there has ever been in the history of time (sure, the mid 80s, but that was just in LA). Soon (in about 3-4 years) it will reach a breaking point, and peak, and everyone will get crappy again, so go out and appreciate it while there's still time!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
maybe it was dying for a while but the past 5 years have experienced a massive resurgence of amazingly creative and artistic indie comedy.
Eugene Mirman, Patton Oswalt, Demetri Martin, Maria Bamford, I could list hundreds of boundary-pushing hilarious comics and those are just the successful ones! I know you said there are many exceptions, but i guess i see comedy as going through a golden age right now, with just more massive success to come in the next decade. Zach fucking Galifianakis is Hollywoods biggest rising star right now. I mean WTF, the dude's even too abstract for me.
i know you've got a lot more experience than I in the field, but others have noted that the shift from the comedy club focused on two drink minimums to more artistry-centered establishments like rock clubs and small theaters. There's more funny and innovative stand-up going on wherever you are now than there has ever been in the history of time (sure, the mid 80s, but that was just in LA). Soon (in about 3-4 years) it will reach a breaking point, and peak, and everyone will get crappy again, so go out and appreciate it while there's still time!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
victors: Interesting analysis, though you leave out absurdity and self-deprecating humor (eg, I misunderstand this situation you all get to hilarious effect, or I have an exaggerated case of this foible eg machoness or irritiability), all of which are very common.
I'm curious, though: weren't Lenny Bruce and George Carlin nearly perfect examplars of the comedy style you criticize?
posted by msalt at 4:26 PM on March 23, 2010
I'm curious, though: weren't Lenny Bruce and George Carlin nearly perfect examplars of the comedy style you criticize?
posted by msalt at 4:26 PM on March 23, 2010
and to address this:
Artists tend to be outsiders to begin with, driven, often, by a need for acceptance on a grand scale, but comedians are an especially damaged crew. Most of the ones I've met don't know how to socially interact in any way other than defensively. I know of several, only slightly damaged people, no more than your average rock-star wanna-be, who are very funny, quick witted sharp minds that couldn't hack it in the toxic stand-up world. Too bad.
it is hard to argue with. I have met plenty of incredibly nice and friendly famous and semi-famous comedians, but then, i'm not a comedian. unlike musicians, its a pretty solitary profession, so helping each-other is sometimes seen as pointless. Nevertheless, there is a community, and it can be quite encouraging to one another. This too is part of the movement away from the club-model and into the indie-music model.
flo, come on how can you not think this is both humourous and wise
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:35 PM on March 23, 2010
Artists tend to be outsiders to begin with, driven, often, by a need for acceptance on a grand scale, but comedians are an especially damaged crew. Most of the ones I've met don't know how to socially interact in any way other than defensively. I know of several, only slightly damaged people, no more than your average rock-star wanna-be, who are very funny, quick witted sharp minds that couldn't hack it in the toxic stand-up world. Too bad.
it is hard to argue with. I have met plenty of incredibly nice and friendly famous and semi-famous comedians, but then, i'm not a comedian. unlike musicians, its a pretty solitary profession, so helping each-other is sometimes seen as pointless. Nevertheless, there is a community, and it can be quite encouraging to one another. This too is part of the movement away from the club-model and into the indie-music model.
flo, come on how can you not think this is both humourous and wise
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:35 PM on March 23, 2010
to everyone with count-anecdotal data and more in touch with the latest trends I say: I hope you're right and I'm wrong, that would be great.
> you leave out absurdity and self-deprecating humor
I left them out, admittedly because they deluded my larger point, to be sure - zany, surreal absurdist comics ala Marx Bros. is a rail against mortality and, in it's best form, is an honest connection point between all of us - but then, I can only think of one comic I've seen in the last 10 years in a club that came close. (btw, I did see Robin Wms. many times pre-Mork. Say what you will of him as an old man but that was special and he often ended the zaniest nights with very sweet but never sappy closings)
Self-deprecation has been twisted into self-hate all to often. They don't call it "beating yourself up" for nothing.
ibid: weren't Lenny Bruce and George Carlin nearly perfect examplars of the comedy style you criticize?
I'm hardly against using naughtiness as means to larger end, but you could hardly call Bruce's 'nigger' routine ultimately hostile; it's one of the most compassionate comedy bits ever, maybe just ever. And for my money, Carlin's ability with language is unsurpassed. When you're talking about context, intent and fiber of the artist, these men are exactly what I'm missing.
I would like to qualify one part of what I originally said: comics have been victimized pretty harshly by club owners.
posted by victors at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2010
> you leave out absurdity and self-deprecating humor
I left them out, admittedly because they deluded my larger point, to be sure - zany, surreal absurdist comics ala Marx Bros. is a rail against mortality and, in it's best form, is an honest connection point between all of us - but then, I can only think of one comic I've seen in the last 10 years in a club that came close. (btw, I did see Robin Wms. many times pre-Mork. Say what you will of him as an old man but that was special and he often ended the zaniest nights with very sweet but never sappy closings)
Self-deprecation has been twisted into self-hate all to often. They don't call it "beating yourself up" for nothing.
ibid: weren't Lenny Bruce and George Carlin nearly perfect examplars of the comedy style you criticize?
I'm hardly against using naughtiness as means to larger end, but you could hardly call Bruce's 'nigger' routine ultimately hostile; it's one of the most compassionate comedy bits ever, maybe just ever. And for my money, Carlin's ability with language is unsurpassed. When you're talking about context, intent and fiber of the artist, these men are exactly what I'm missing.
I would like to qualify one part of what I originally said: comics have been victimized pretty harshly by club owners.
posted by victors at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2010
victor: please do check out some of the comics mentioned in that book i linked to above, i think you'll find the tradition of the marx brothers and is alive and well and even dominating these days! (especially Maria Bamford, who i just saw at SXSW and she blew me away. she's moved beyond funny into just pure streamofconsciousness.)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2010
Soon (in about 3-4 years) it will reach a breaking point, and peak, and everyone will get crappy again, so go out and appreciate it while there's still time!
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of network sitcom standards, media censorship, and 3-drink-minimum joke-mills. Not in any dull or revolutionary sense; we didn’t need that. Our wit would simply prevail. There was no point in preaching — on our side or theirs. We had all the hot content; we were riding the crest of a weird and mind-altering wave. . . .
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a small stage in Anytown, USA, and look out, and with the right kind of nose you can almost smell the dirty-water mark — that place where the waves spilling over from Larry the Cable Guy's monster hot tub finally broke and drowned the spirits of a generation.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of network sitcom standards, media censorship, and 3-drink-minimum joke-mills. Not in any dull or revolutionary sense; we didn’t need that. Our wit would simply prevail. There was no point in preaching — on our side or theirs. We had all the hot content; we were riding the crest of a weird and mind-altering wave. . . .
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a small stage in Anytown, USA, and look out, and with the right kind of nose you can almost smell the dirty-water mark — that place where the waves spilling over from Larry the Cable Guy's monster hot tub finally broke and drowned the spirits of a generation.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
> ...we were riding the crest of a weird and mind-altering wave....
a Hunter remix. was that so hard? Thanks FH for that.
posted by victors at 5:09 PM on March 23, 2010
a Hunter remix. was that so hard? Thanks FH for that.
posted by victors at 5:09 PM on March 23, 2010
Demetri Martin
This is a bit of a derail, but what happened to Martin between his stand-up career and his show? I saw him on comedy central way back, maybe a year or three ago, and thought he was hilarious... but his show, it's painfully awful. There's almost nothing funny in it. Does his contract forbid him from telling his stand-up jokes on Important Things, or what?
posted by r_nebblesworthII at 5:30 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a bit of a derail, but what happened to Martin between his stand-up career and his show? I saw him on comedy central way back, maybe a year or three ago, and thought he was hilarious... but his show, it's painfully awful. There's almost nothing funny in it. Does his contract forbid him from telling his stand-up jokes on Important Things, or what?
posted by r_nebblesworthII at 5:30 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: I have never seen a man fail so thoroughly and just keep taking this kind of abuse.
Mitch McConnell?
posted by Mcable at 5:37 PM on March 23, 2010
Mitch McConnell?
posted by Mcable at 5:37 PM on March 23, 2010
Someone - I forget who - once said (I'm paraphrasing here) "Anyone can get up and tell a sad story about someone dying of cancer and have the audience in tears. But how many people can pull off five minutes of good standup comedy?"
I have a story which I frequently tell. It's "the Superglue story." This story never fails to have people helpless with laughter, or anyway it hasn't yet. I also only really tell it to people who know me at least a little, like say we've been at a party together for a half hour, as opposed to perfect strangers. I would say it takes me more than two minutes to tell this story and less than five. It's a pretty funny goddamn story.
I've been polishing that sonofabitch for YEARS. At this point, probably at least ten years. For three and a half minutes of material. And I'm a pretty funny, extroverted, engaging, performance-oriented lady, with no intention of ever going into standup because it's just too hard. Making people laugh is hard as ASS, and people like Kathy Griffin or Jerry Seinfeld or Eddie freaking Izzard have a really rare gift.
posted by KathrynT at 5:38 PM on March 23, 2010
I have a story which I frequently tell. It's "the Superglue story." This story never fails to have people helpless with laughter, or anyway it hasn't yet. I also only really tell it to people who know me at least a little, like say we've been at a party together for a half hour, as opposed to perfect strangers. I would say it takes me more than two minutes to tell this story and less than five. It's a pretty funny goddamn story.
I've been polishing that sonofabitch for YEARS. At this point, probably at least ten years. For three and a half minutes of material. And I'm a pretty funny, extroverted, engaging, performance-oriented lady, with no intention of ever going into standup because it's just too hard. Making people laugh is hard as ASS, and people like Kathy Griffin or Jerry Seinfeld or Eddie freaking Izzard have a really rare gift.
posted by KathrynT at 5:38 PM on March 23, 2010
>Maria Bamford
This is the real stuff, turning the disfunction into healing art. Unless I'm totally off, this seems honest and not in the slightest bit hostile. At the very least, definitely falls into my 'many, many exceptions' clause. Thanks, she's great.
(The clip you linked to was more deconstruction than absurd imo)
posted by victors at 5:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is the real stuff, turning the disfunction into healing art. Unless I'm totally off, this seems honest and not in the slightest bit hostile. At the very least, definitely falls into my 'many, many exceptions' clause. Thanks, she's great.
(The clip you linked to was more deconstruction than absurd imo)
posted by victors at 5:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
You know it's going to be bad when a performance by ComedySportz is glossed over as part of the good entertainment of the evening. Damn.
posted by davejay at 10:01 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by davejay at 10:01 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
victors: You should check out Eddie Izzard (esp. "Glorious" or "Dress to Kill") if you haven't. I started performing literally as a result of seeing one show of his live, at age 38, with no prior interest in it. Also, Arj Barker, and Jake Johannsen. For old school, Jack Mayberry.
If you like socially relevant stuff and are into recovery, Mark Lundholm is the ticket (though he's wound a bit tight for my taste as a pure comic). As for political satire, I just think Jon Stewart and Colbert are awfully hard for comics to top. How do you compete with a staff of 20 hilarious Ivy League writers?
posted by msalt at 11:40 PM on March 23, 2010
If you like socially relevant stuff and are into recovery, Mark Lundholm is the ticket (though he's wound a bit tight for my taste as a pure comic). As for political satire, I just think Jon Stewart and Colbert are awfully hard for comics to top. How do you compete with a staff of 20 hilarious Ivy League writers?
posted by msalt at 11:40 PM on March 23, 2010
I know those folks' work and a lot of them are from eras looooong past. A 50yo (?) superstar like Jon Stewart doesn't represent the current state of the art-form to me. wrt newer folks, I tried to qualify my comments as much as possible about -- a few like Ty, are healthy, decent, sweet folks. But he was a very rare exception. Without fail, he'd be sandwiched between the more typical case of the walking wounded, wasting the opportunity to say anything they want only to show off how hostile they can be.
posted by victors at 1:39 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by victors at 1:39 AM on March 24, 2010
Remember, though, you're discussing bad American stand-up. Come to Sweden and I'll show you a few local stand-ups who aspire to be Johnny D. "Oh I saw Johnny on YouTube" they'll tell you after their gig. "Wasn't he great? So jävla funny!"
posted by soundofsuburbia at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by soundofsuburbia at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2010
Ahh, West Allis. A place so awesome (in both the real, and most terribly ironic sense) that the best word to describe it is "Westallica".
posted by quin at 7:42 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by quin at 7:42 AM on March 24, 2010
I know those folks' work and a lot of them are from eras looooong past. A 50yo (?) superstar like Jon Stewart doesn't represent the current state of the art-form to me.
So you want very young people who are already great? Comedy takes time. Richard Pryor and George Carlin had long stretches as mainstream, not great comics before finding their voices. Ty Barnett is great, I did the Seattle competition with him in 2002, but he must be at least 40.
I'd check out Don Frost from Portland if you get a chance, and the whole Bridgetown Comedy Festival here April 22-25 (since you're in Seattle).
posted by msalt at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2010
So you want very young people who are already great? Comedy takes time. Richard Pryor and George Carlin had long stretches as mainstream, not great comics before finding their voices. Ty Barnett is great, I did the Seattle competition with him in 2002, but he must be at least 40.
I'd check out Don Frost from Portland if you get a chance, and the whole Bridgetown Comedy Festival here April 22-25 (since you're in Seattle).
posted by msalt at 9:56 AM on March 24, 2010
I've run into a number of people lately that only know Louis CK through his sitcom and preemptively decided they hate him, which is a shame.
I'm somewhat grateful I've never seen it, because Louis C.K. is easily one of the funniest comedians alive.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:19 AM on March 24, 2010
I'm somewhat grateful I've never seen it, because Louis C.K. is easily one of the funniest comedians alive.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:19 AM on March 24, 2010
> Pbbbbththththt, there have always been hacks in comedy
There's always been hacks and there's always been geniuses who rise above no matter what else is happening but art-forms do have lifecycles (word?) - periods a widespread innovation and creativity and slow periods of languish.
> So you want very young people who are already great?
I think I've said what I want several times. If you think this is a golden era of stand-up then, as am I, I hope, you're entitled to your opinion.
posted by victors at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2010
There's always been hacks and there's always been geniuses who rise above no matter what else is happening but art-forms do have lifecycles (word?) - periods a widespread innovation and creativity and slow periods of languish.
> So you want very young people who are already great?
I think I've said what I want several times. If you think this is a golden era of stand-up then, as am I, I hope, you're entitled to your opinion.
posted by victors at 11:37 AM on March 24, 2010
Golden era? That wasn't me. You just complained that you couldn't find a certain type of comic, and I made several suggestions. Then you said they were too old, so I made more suggestions. Hard to figure out what you want here. Arj Barker and Don Frost seem like the epitome of what you want, but hey I guess you can't make everybody happy.
posted by msalt at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by msalt at 11:59 AM on March 24, 2010
> Golden era? That wasn't me
oh. then you haven't understood my point at all. that's cool too.
posted by victors at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2010
oh. then you haven't understood my point at all. that's cool too.
posted by victors at 12:37 PM on March 24, 2010
Thanks for inviting us all here to play this game of "Discern victors' oblique request."
posted by msalt at 3:10 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by msalt at 3:10 PM on March 24, 2010
Others in this thread seem to get it so you're welcome either way.
posted by victors at 5:01 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by victors at 5:01 PM on March 24, 2010
Why so much attitude (from a guy decrying hostile comics)? You're sort of looking for comics with heart and human connection at the root of your act, but then you link to lists of hipster-trendy comics who aren't much like that at all. I don't think I'm the only one who finds comments like this opaque:
If you think this is a golden era of stand-up then, as am I, I hope, you're entitled to your opinion.
A final suggestion before I give up: Vince Morris.
posted by msalt at 7:45 PM on March 24, 2010
If you think this is a golden era of stand-up then, as am I, I hope, you're entitled to your opinion.
A final suggestion before I give up: Vince Morris.
posted by msalt at 7:45 PM on March 24, 2010
heh, that was pretty tortured. guilty.
look, it's silly and boring for this to get personal. I'm sorry if my opinions offended you.
posted by victors at 9:04 PM on March 24, 2010
look, it's silly and boring for this to get personal. I'm sorry if my opinions offended you.
posted by victors at 9:04 PM on March 24, 2010
Well, thanks, and I have no intention to get personal here either (esp. as you're apparently a Seattle comedy fan and I perform there. Know anything about Giggles new ownership?)
I don't have any problem with your opinions at all -- I love to see comics coming from a place of sincerity and heart, though it is difficult to do, for me anyway. I'd actually like to buy you a beverage and discuss the scene sometime (I'll memail next time I head north.)
posted by msalt at 9:29 AM on March 25, 2010
I don't have any problem with your opinions at all -- I love to see comics coming from a place of sincerity and heart, though it is difficult to do, for me anyway. I'd actually like to buy you a beverage and discuss the scene sometime (I'll memail next time I head north.)
posted by msalt at 9:29 AM on March 25, 2010
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posted by tommasz at 1:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]