"I will believe that the white that I see is black if the hierarchical Church so defines it."posted by BeerFilter at 3:54 PM on April 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Faith in God, he said, led "towards the courage of not allowing oneself to be intimidated by the petty gossip of dominant opinion".I can't find a complete transcript from that Palm Sunday service in St Peter's square, which would be nice to read, because some iteration of that quote can be found hacked and re-worked in many different reports on the weekend, each with their own twist on what the Pope was really saying.
"'There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age and who are perfectly in agreement with, and what’s more wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you,' he said."Ya know what, asshole, fuck you!
“A bill in Connecticut's legislature that would remove the statute of limitations on child sexual abuse cases has sparked a fervent response from the state's Roman Catholic bishops, who released a letter to parishioners Saturday imploring them to oppose the measure.Holy Men of God, where should your compassion be first focused? On the victims or your "brothers?"
Under current Connecticut law, sexual abuse victims have 30 years past their 18th birthday to file a lawsuit. The proposed change to the law would rescind that statute of limitations.
The proposed change to the law would put ‘all Church institutions, including your parish, at risk,’ says the letter, which was signed by Connecticut's three Roman Catholic bishops.
....The ‘legislation would undermine the mission of the Catholic Church in Connecticut, threatening our parishes, our schools, and our Catholic Charities,’ the letter says.
The Catholic archdiocese of Hartford also published a pulpit announcement on its Web site, which was to be read during Mass on Sunday, urging parishioners to express opposition to the bill.
The bill has been revised to address some of the church's concerns about frivolous abuse claims against it, according to Connecticut state Rep. Beth Bye, one of the bill's sponsors.
‘The church didn't recognize that this bill makes improvements,’ Bye said. ‘The victims -- their lives have been changed and some will never recover from years of sexual abuse. For me, it's about giving them access to the courts.’
Under the bill's provisions, anyone older than 48 who makes a sex abuse claim against the church would need to join an existing claim filed by someone 48 or younger. Older claimants would need to show substantial proof that they were abused.
‘They were worried about frivolous lawsuits and so we made the bar high,’ Bye said.
....The bill does not target the Catholic Church, she said.”
Monsignor Babini, the retired bishop of Grosseto, told them that 'The enemies of catholicism are always the same - Freemasons and Jews...(looks at Square and Compasses tattoo on right arm) well I guess I'll be first in line for the next Inquisition then.
For almost forty years, the Catholic Church has worked to implement the teachings of the Second Vatican Council's landmark declaration, Nostra Aetate, which condemned anti-Semitism and rejected the ancient "deicide" charge indicting all Jews past and present for the death of Jesus. In a series of significant documents, the Holy See and national episcopal conferences have emphasized that any depiction of Jesus' death under the Romans should be so fashioned as to present accurately both the theological and historical causes of Jesus' crucifixion. Theologically, all humanity was responsible for killing Jesus, not just one group or people. Historically, Jesus was executed through collaboration between the Roman prefect, Pontius Pilate, and the Roman-dominated high priesthood of Jerusalem. Jesus was popular with the people at large as his clandestine arrest at night shows. Catholic texts have been rewritten to incorporate these new understandings of ancient texts so that the teachings of the Church may never again give rise to contempt for and denigration of Jews and Judaism.A similar statement appears among the Good Friday readings distributed in church pews.
But what direction are we talking about? How do we find it? The line from our Gospel offers two indications in this connection. In the first place it says that it is a matter of an ascent. This has in the first place a very literal meaning. Jericho, where the last stage of Jesus's pilgrimage began, is 250 meters below sea-level while Jerusalem -- the goal of the journey -- is 740-780 meters above sea level: an ascent of almost 1,000 meters. But this external rout is above all an image of the interior movement of existence, which occurs in the following of Christ: It is an ascent to the true height of being human. Man can choose an easy path and avoid all toil. He can also descend to what is lower. He can sink into lies and dishonesty. Jesus goes ahead of us, and he goes up to what is above. He leads us to what is great, pure, he leads us to the healthy air of the heights: to life according to truth; to the courage that does not let itself be intimidated by the gossip of dominant opinions; to the patience that stands up for and supports the other. He leads us to availability to the suffering, to the abandoned; to the loyalty that stands with the other even when the situation makes it difficult.I think it's unfair to say that the Pope's homily "dismisses" sexual abuse or that it "declares" he won't be swayed as the Guardian maintains. Here's the full text.
ased on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.I would posit that the Church doesn't really give a shit about Ireland, Germany and the US (where its harshest contemporary critics are), as long as it has Subsaharan Africa, the Philippines, Brazil and other populous congregations supporting it.Even leaving aside religious arguments, this is unlikely, since the U.S. and Germany are major contributors to the Vatican budget.
Let us remember the moment. It is Good Friday mass. The homily for Good Friday was the moment most dreaded by Jews for centuries. Following this homily, mobs would set to the streets, and Jews feared for their lives. Passion plays enacted on Good Friday were a constant source of violence towards Jews. More recently, Good Friday has constituted a problem for Jewish-Christian relations, in view of the new Latin version of the prayer for the Jews, released by Pope Benedict.And don't think that this is some strategy by the JP to go easy on the issue. It's not their official line.
With this background, it is striking to note what Father Cantalamessa makes of the opportunity. He uses the moment at St. Peter’s Basilica, in the presence of the Pope, to wish Jews a “Good Passover.”
Reading this, I asked myself, when before was a Good Friday sermon used for such purposes? Probably never. Why do we take this gesture of goodwill for granted? Why do we gloss over it in silence? To think of the Jews as brothers in faith during a Papal Good Friday service is the fruit of decades of labor in the field of Jewish-Christian relations. That this could be said so casually and naturally is the real news.
But he does not stop here. He greets us, Jews, with words from the Mishna, quoted in the Hagadda, the most popular of Jewish texts, and echoed in Christian liturgy, a sign of bonding and unity between our communities. How often have we complained that Judaism is not simply the Biblical root, of which Christianity is the branch? How often have we emphasized the need to refer to latter day Judaism in its own right, respecting it as a self-standing religion, and not simply as the Old Testament?
Does not greeting us on Good Friday in words taken from the Mishna-Haggada deliver a powerful message that something here is right and that we have made progress?
We didn’t hear all this because we only noted the comparison of violent attacks on the Church with those perpetrated against the Church. But even here, we failed to hear the Jewish voice quoted by the Franciscan Father, in its fullness. It spoke of living with a common Messianic hope that will reunite us in the love of our common Father. Need I query once more when was the last time that such words were uttered at St. Peter’s on Good Friday? To all this, there is only one appropriate response, recognition and acknowledgement of the quiet yet profound significance of the moment, and so – Thank you, Fr. Cantalamessa.
Rabbi David Rosen added: “The high level of mutual trust and solidarity that binds our two communities today demands that there be zero-tolerance for such defamatory statements by religious representatives.”And, I had missed this part of Myer's post the first time around:
Now you could invent stories of Jews and witches taking the communion host to torture, to make Jesus suffer even more, and good Catholics would of course rise in horror to defend their salvation. None of the stories were true, of course — Jews and infidels see no power at all in those little crackers, and the idea that they were obsessing over obtaining a non-sacred, powerless, pointless relic is ludicrousThis is a decidely odd thing for him to say, given that he's doing exactly that... obtaining a Host and desecrating it on purpose. (This is not a defense of pogroms.)
The linked post by Myers puts the desecration of the Host in the context of the justification of anti-Jewish pogroms. I was trying (rather inelegantly) to head off the predictable... "so you're in favor of pogroms then" replies.Ok, so some former Bishop tries to blame the Church's current problems on the Jews, and it's somehow relevant that PJ Myers, a lapsed Lutheran, said something about pogroms and communion wafers? What? What on earth does that have to do with anything?
You know, if God did exist and all that, I'd expect his intermediaries down here on earth to be ... wiser and more moral than the rest of us, maybe?Well, I'm Jewish, so that's not really my problem. I don't think the Catholic Church is God's intermediary down here on earth. I just think that you can also find lots of instances of sexual abuse, and cover-ups of sexual abuse, among members of other religious denominations and among secular institutions. That doesn't excuse people who engaged in cover ups, but it does raise questions about why this is seen to be a specifically Catholic sin. I think it's kind of convenient to talk about this as a Catholic problem, because it lets everyone else off the hook. So, for instance, the abuse of deaf boys in Wisconsin is seen as another example of bad Catholic depravity, but nobody mentions that child sex abuse has been a massive problem at both religious and secular schools for deaf children. It's a story about the Catholic Church, not a story about how our society has victimized and abandoned deaf kids in particular and institutionalized disabled people in general. And for non-Catholics, that's convenient, because it's a story about "them," not a story about "us."
I'm not the infallible one here, but doesn't it seem like there's a bit of doublethink here?I think maybe you're confused about what papal infallibility is all about.
First, the available research (which is quite good now) suggests that approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor (i.e., anyone under the age of 18). There are approximately 60,000 active and inactive priests and brothers in the United States and thus we estimate that between 1,000 and 3,000 priests have sexually engaged with minors. That's a lot. In fact, that is 3,000 people too many. Any sexual abuse of minors whether perpetrated by priests, other clergy, parents, school teachers, boy-scout leaders or anyone else in whom we entrust our children is horrific. However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 4% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers. Therefore, the odds that any random Catholic priest would sexually abuse a minor are not likely to be significantly higher than other males in or out of the clergy. Of course we expect better behavior from priests than from the average man on the street. While even one priest who abuses children is a major problem, we need to keep this issue in perspective and remember that the vast majority of priests do not abuse children.I urge everyone to read this very useful and worthwhile essay. In the climate surrounding this issue today, it's hard to find sane voices; Dr Plante's is one.
Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it's closer to one in 5.posted by Jahaza at 8:44 PM on April 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Vatican issues policy requiring sexual abuse cases to be reported to police."Find us another worldwide organization of mostly males and I will show you another organization that does this.The US military? See, that was easy (and now, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.. enjoy)
In a single year, Anti-Zionism became the excuse for Anti-Semitism.Between that and forgiving the Beatles, it looks like the Catholic Church is grasping for some sort of zeitgeist of popular opinion it can glom on to.
I wonder what effect Bishop Babini's antisemitic comments will have on those statistics.
Boy Scouts Sex Abuse Coverup? Secret "Perversion Files" Make it to Court.posted by ericb at 7:51 AM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Portland Jury Begins Deliberating Sexual Abuse Lawsuit Against Boy Scouts.
Boy Scouts of America Accused of Ignoring Sex Abuse by Troop Leaders.
Scout's Honor: Sexual Abuse in America's Most Trusted Institution.
Scouting Sex Abuse Cases.
The majority of child molesters probably don't have private, privileged access to hundreds (thousands?) of children throughout their lifetimes the way priests do.I think it probably depends on how you define "private" and "privileged", but the average child molester has many victims, and the average child molester who gets caught has already molested many children before he is prosecuted.
Catholic texts have been rewritten to incorporate these new understandings of ancient texts so that the teachings of the Church may never again give rise to contempt for and denigration of Jews and Judaism.Don't look now, but the actions of the Church's leaders are now promoting contempt for and denigration of Jews and Judaism.
Bishops, therefore, with their helpers, the priests and deacons, have taken up the service of the community, (11*) presiding in place of God over the flock,(12*) whose shepherds they are, as teachers for doctrine, priests for sacred worship, and ministers for governing.(13*) And just as the office granted individually to Peter, the first among the apostles, is permanent and is to be transmitted to his successors, so also the apostles' office of nurturing the Church is permanent, and is to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops. (14*) Therefore, the Sacred Council teaches that bishops by divine institution have succeeded to the place of the apostles, (15*) as shepherds of the Church, and he who hears them, hears Christ, and he who rejects them, rejects Christ and Him who sent Christ.(149)(16*)The Pope controls their fate, and has "full, supreme and universal power over the Church":
In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power. The order of bishops, which succeeds to the college of apostles and gives this apostolic body continued existence, is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal Church, provided we understand this body together with its head the Roman Pontiff and never without this head.There is an acknowledgement that Bishops individually are fallible. But when their judgments are rendered in cooperation with a Pope, those are infallible.
Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they nevertheless proclaim Christ's doctrine infallibly whenever, even though dispersed through the world, but still maintaining the bond of communion among themselves and with the successor of Peter, and authentically teaching matters of faith and morals, they are in agreement on one position as definitively to be held.(40*) This is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church, whose definitions must be adhered to with the submission of faith.(41*)Babini's fellow bishops are covering for him. "He didn't say that!" The Pope remains silent.
"Lawyers for Kerry Lewis, 38, the victim who filed the lawsuit, argued the Boy Scouts organization was reckless for allowing former assistant Scoutmaster Timur Dykes to continue to associate with the victim's Scout troop after Dykes acknowledged to a bishop for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints early in 1983 that he had molested 17 Boy Scouts.(1) Secret files.
The church was the charter organization for an estimated third to one half of the Boy Scout troops in the nation in the 1980s.
The church settled its portion of the Portland case before trial, but the jury ordered it to pay 25 percent of the $1.4 million in noneconomic damages, or $350,000. The Boy Scouts of America must pay 60 percent, or $840,000, while its Cascade Pacific Council must pay 15 percent, or $210,000."
1 a : to destroy completely : wipe out b : to pull up by the rootThat's potentially pretty offensive right there... to advocate for the extermination of a religion. Your clarification of what you meant was that you intended for the extermination to happen by state power. Which goes from potentially offensive to definitely offensive.
2 : to cut out by surgery
synonyms see exterminate
We would therefore be able to ban any money going to the RCC as a criminal organization - this would allow complete cutting off from any government involvement on any level, tax advantages, private contributions (we've used these tactics against terrorist organizations that masqueraded as charities), etc., etc., etc..You're the one who called the RCC a criminal organization. Yes indeed, you're "not proposing that we retroactively label Catholics anything. You've already repeatedly labeled it presently and retroactively as a criminal organization, so it wouldn't be necessary for you to do it retroactively. The laws are already in place. Now you're backing down and saying we should just ban and prosecute future contributions. That's a lot better!
* The current Pope is pushing the beatification of Pope Pius XII.It stuns me that Pope Benedict would think Pope Pius deserves beatification. Pius did act to help Jews. But at the same time he tacitly allowed much to happen, when acting could have perhaps limited the Nazis' mass murder. And his supposed posthumous confession should not mean we suddenly ignore or gloss over his sins.
* The current Pope also lifted and did not reinstate the excommunication of Bishop Richard Williamson, the Holocaust denier.
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Okay, off to go read something that doesn't make my brain explode...
posted by ohyouknow at 3:38 PM on April 12, 2010