The Restoration of Stephen Baldwin

April 22, 2010 12:28 PM

The Restoration of Stephen Baldwin
posted by nitsuj (200 comments total)

LOLBaldwins!
posted by papercake at 12:29 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Give Stephen Baldwin money or Jesus will shoot this puppy!
posted by Behemoth at 12:32 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

So because a religious actor can't get work, it becomes mission work? Seriously, all other issues needing support have suddenly ceased to be more important than this?

Or is it that somehow god's "rep" has taken a beating because a Hollywood star lost his lustre after converting? Does this really take up any space in peoples' daily concerns?

Either way, it never ceases to amaze me what people focus their energies on.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 12:33 PM on April 22, 2010

He's got a hell of a Blue Steel, you got to give him that.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:36 PM on April 22, 2010 [5 favorites]

This is insane, and would think it was a joke if it weren't so unfunny. Stephen Baldwin's bankruptcy happened because he's an evangelical? Bullshit. We should give lots of money to make a celebrity rich again because he's an evangelical? Double bullshit. It's stuff like this that goes to show how little evangelicalism has to do with Christianity.
posted by koeselitz at 12:37 PM on April 22, 2010 [21 favorites]

It's amazing that he can't fathom that his repellent behavior and poor acting could be the cause of his lack of cash flow and his obvious inability to save and pay bills was the cause of his bankruptcy.


Clearly it's the godless nature of the Secular world that Bankrupted Stephen Baldwin, not these logical and obvious things.
posted by NiteMayr at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

While I imagine his being Christian does alienate some people in Hollywood -- especially as he sounds like he is rather pushy about it, as Alec Baldwin sometimes intimates. But it wouldn't make a bit of difference if his resume didn't sound like this:

To the Wall
I'm a Celebrity…Get Me out of Here!
Let the Game Begin
Celebrity Big Brother
Shoot the Duke
Loving the Bad Man
Power & Pride
Mate

Throw in a Bio-Dome, a Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas, and a Fred Claus, and you have an actor who has pretty much perfectly sabotaged his own career, as hilarious as he was in Half Baked.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

By the way, it's worth reading his wikipedia page. I had no idea about his Hannah Montana tattoo. That's utterly depressing.
posted by koeselitz at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2010 [6 favorites]

If he's going to compare himself to Job, I want to see him sitting on an ash-heap picking at his shores with a shard before i give him a cent.
posted by COBRA! at 12:40 PM on April 22, 2010 [13 favorites]

Dear celebrities who cannot get work as celebrities.

Get a real job.




Thank you.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:41 PM on April 22, 2010 [27 favorites]

At least he gets credit for not being Daniel Baldwin. You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires? I swear to God, all he does in that film is fall out of trucks. I bet that wasn't even in the script. It's just what happened when they rolled film, and they had to work with it.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2010 [25 favorites]

This is fucking awesome. Don't even pretend that your donation is going to help give bibles to the savage children, or whatever. That shit is going straight the source to ensure that Mr. Baldwin's smoldering good looks are no longer besmirched and held back by a modest lifestyle. DADDY GOT A NEW BEAMER, TAKE THAT, HEATHENS.
posted by dirtdirt at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

picking at his sores. "picking at his shores" sounds kind of obscene, which I guess is ok.
posted by COBRA! at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2010

And all this time I though the story of Job was about God getting hoodwinked into torturing his pet by that bum, Satan.
posted by klanawa at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

At least he gets credit for not being Daniel Baldwin. You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires?

I refuse to remove Vampires from my hard drive, because Carpenter fan that I am, I will make it through that film some day.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2010

i once saw a dollar bill on the street
i threw my arms to the heavens
rubbed the bill on my face
and i cried
because it did not belong to
stephen baldwin...

yet.

i have stuffed the bill in my mouth
my cheeks are chipmunk-full with money now
i must race on foot to where stephen baldwin is
i must find him and smash my cheeks together, bluto-style, to spew the money at him
he will grab them all with one hand and smile a smile of "thank you"
but no "thank you" needed:
he might as well say,
to the world, "you are welcome,
welly-welcome,
you are all baldwin-welcome."

and then if i am lucky
i will explode
into a shower of even more bills.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:46 PM on April 22, 2010 [20 favorites]

See, it's things like this that make Scientology look classy.
posted by Theta States at 12:48 PM on April 22, 2010 [11 favorites]

When is he going to be leaving Nyack and moving to Canada?
posted by zarq at 12:49 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is great.

Every penny that goes to Raise Him Up to his rightful place is one less donated to, for example, Sarah Palin.

And now we should forget the matter entirely, because the same principle that applies to pennies, applies to neurons.
posted by darth_tedious at 12:51 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

At least he gets credit for not being Daniel Baldwin. You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires?

I have, and the only reason is these four words: James Woods. Vampire Hunter.
Dude was spot on.
The rest of the movie, not so much.

And to get back to Stephen Baldwin, he didn't suck in "The Usual Suspects", so he's got that going for him.
posted by willmize at 12:52 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

He was fucking brilliant in The Usual Suspects. In fact, I tend to think I've seen and liked him in many films, when in fact I think that's probably the only one. I suspect I'm not alone.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:53 PM on April 22, 2010 [7 favorites]

At least he gets credit for not being Daniel Baldwin. You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires? I swear to God, all he does in that film is fall out of trucks. I bet that wasn't even in the script. It's just what happened when they rolled film, and they had to work with it.

I was unable to stifle my laughter at this and everyone just looked at me funny.
posted by Theta States at 12:54 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ohhh, so that's what happened to Threesome 2...
posted by lumpenprole at 12:56 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

No no, the tattoo is for, uh, "HOLY MOTHER".

He got the tattoo after making a pact with Miley Cyrus that he would be allowed to cameo on the show if he had the initials tattooed on him. He revealed the tattoo to Cyrus at a book signing in Nashville, on November 10, 2008. To date he has never appeared on the show.

What a schmuck.
posted by benzenedream at 12:56 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the only movie worth seeing with him in it was "Threesome" and that was because of Lara Flynn Boyle and Josh Charles, not him. The funniest thing about that is that his character in that movie was supposedly some mega-adventurous 90s stoner dude exploring what it would be like to get it on with Lara Flynn Boyle and Josh Charles at the same time. I bet he wishes he could burn every instantiation of that flick (made by a gay director, BTW) ever made.
posted by blucevalo at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2010

I read it. I can't un-read it.

I think I need eyewash.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Eh, the secular humanists did it first and did it better.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2010

When is he going to be leaving Nyack and moving to Canada?

Look, we're sorry about Celine. We honestly are. And I respect the right of the US to retaliate for that. But it should be proportional.
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:00 PM on April 22, 2010 [16 favorites]

Once enough people give, will he convert to the prosperity gospel?

Oh, and... Metafilter: A simple search through the internet will reveal that people not only mock Stephen, but mock God
posted by Verdant at 1:02 PM on April 22, 2010

You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires?

*emits piercing scream*

WHY? Why did you remind of that fucking movie? Man, that was agony. Representative dialogue:

Jack Crow: Can I ask ya somethin, Padre? When I was kickin' your ass back there... you get a little wood?
Father Adam Guiteau: What?
posted by Skot at 1:03 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

Every penny that goes to Raise Him Up to his rightful place is one less donated to, for example, Sarah Palin.

When he makes his comeback, (because let's face it, he will -- how many evangelicals sent Jimmy Swaggart their kids' college funds?) he'll turn right around and stump for her and other far-right Republicans. Only then he'll be a guy they'll herald as a hero for Jesus. Someone who's been down and out, kept strong through the dark times by his faith, now living a bright, limitless future where gays shouldn't have rights, all Muslims are terrorists and the end of the world is right around the corner 'cause it's been foretold in scripture.

Let's not fool ourselves. Every penny that goes to him goes right to the Palinist agenda.
posted by zarq at 1:03 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Man was Daniel Baldwin pissed off on Celebrity Rehab when Gary Busey turned up and was clearly crazier and more of an asshole than him.
posted by Artw at 1:04 PM on April 22, 2010

Not actually a proper Baldwin
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on April 22, 2010

"A simple search through the internet will reveal that people not only mock Stephen, but mock God."

No need to worry about that here.
posted by ericb at 1:06 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

The way I see it, he has two career options:
1. Stay in Hollywood and remain the least talented working actor in show biz.
2. Move to Jacksonville and become the most talented youth pastor in the God biz.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

For a second I was expecting this to be about Discovery Health giving him short summer reality series detailing his efforts at foreskin restoration.

I'm... relieved?
posted by CKmtl at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

He was fucking brilliant in The Usual Suspects.

Yep, he was and do you want to know what th enext big movie he was in right after that? Bio-Dome. He starred in one of the best films of the 90's and follow is up with a film about guys figure out what each other ate by smelling their farts.

That guy threw away his career, and money, without any help. Let him figure out how to get his money back without any help.
posted by P.o.B. at 1:09 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's a fake, no? I tried to donate to check, and it didn't work for me.
posted by low_horrible_immoral at 1:09 PM on April 22, 2010

I'd forgotten that he was in "The Usual Suspects." Everything he did after that obliterated the memory of that movie from my mind.
posted by blucevalo at 1:13 PM on April 22, 2010

Jack Crow: Can I ask ya somethin, Padre? When I was kickin' your ass back there... you get a little wood?

Wait, you're saying that's a reason not to see this movie? Because that sounds kind of awesome.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:15 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Here's 'The Restoration of Stephen Baldwin' Facebook page.
posted by ericb at 1:18 PM on April 22, 2010

Over the next few years, he became very vocal about his faith, using his spotlight to boldly preach the gospel. However, because of this convictions it has caused him the loss of many jobs and the most recently, a highly publicized bankruptcy.

The whole thing is priceless but this part bolsters my own belief that people who can't write decently generally don't think well either. (E.g. Sarah Palin.)
posted by bearwife at 1:19 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

You ever see John Carpenter's Vampires?

Many, many times. That movie is a work of terrible art.

"You mean this cross?"
posted by adamdschneider at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2010

"And the job part is a load of malarkey: According to IMDB.com, since his conversion in 2003, Baldwin’s been in 27 movies, almost more than one-fourth of his total creative output in a career that began 24 years ago. That doesn’t suck, dude."*

posted by ericb at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2010

>
Let's not fool ourselves. Every penny that goes to him goes right to the Palinist agenda.

Yeah, but that's the point. There are lots of Holy Vessels and Righteous Funnels out there, but some are less effective than others.

I submit that, even with his redemption arc completed, he'll be less effective than others might be; a dollar spent on St. Stephen, Scourge of the Unchaste and BTW Totally Clean Now, will only be ninety-six cents, or maybe seventy-seven cents, towards his political ends.

Others, in theory, might deliver seventy-eight cents, or ninety-nine... or two dollars.

Stephen Baldwin might direct, divert, and absorb money; someone like Palin might attract it.
posted by darth_tedious at 1:23 PM on April 22, 2010

I for one think he ought to pull himself up by his bootstraps!
posted by contessa at 1:24 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

Not actually a proper Baldwin

Yeah, every time I see something like this about Stephen Baldwin, I get very sad that Adam Baldwin is related to him, and then I remember that he's not, and then I'm happy again. It is a constant emotional rollercoaster.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:26 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

You might take another dip again, as according to Wikipedia he writes for douchebag blog Big Hollywood.
posted by Artw at 1:28 PM on April 22, 2010

I didn't donate to John DeLorean's legal fund, I didn't send $15 to Ross Perot's campaign and I'm NOT giving to Stephen Baldwin.
All I ask is that people fund their own insanity....
posted by pentagoet at 1:30 PM on April 22, 2010

Just wait till Scott Baio hears about this.
posted by EarBucket at 1:30 PM on April 22, 2010 [15 favorites]

WHY? Why did you remind of that fucking movie? Man, that was agony. Representative dialogue:

Jack Crow: Can I ask ya somethin, Padre? When I was kickin' your ass back there... you get a little wood?
Father Adam Guiteau: What?

No, tha'ts not representative dialog. That's the best and most memorable line in the whole film.
posted by atbash at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

There are lots of Holy Vessels and Righteous Funnels out there

That goes straight to the list of top things that sound dirty but really aren't.
posted by empatterson at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

It's a fake, no? I tried to donate to check, and it didn't work for me.
posted by low_horrible_immoral at 4:09 PM on April 22 [+] [!]

Their Javascript is stupidly set to look for a pure numeric value, thus the default value that includes a dollar sign cause the error.

When you go to donate and it asks you if you want more info, it demands a cell phone number, which is curious. Most places would just be content to email you info, but they want to phone you.



It will accept your credit card #, but you can also pay by "cheque" and sign up for the newsletter that way.

But at the end when you finally submit the order, you get...
Fatal error: Can't create/write to file '/var/lib/mysql/#sql_2d87_0.MYI' (Errcode: 12) in /var/www/vhosts/restorestephenbaldwin.org/httpdocs/serve/lib/framework/core/MySQLDatabase.class.php on line 69



So:
1) they didn't really test it very well.
2) It might just be a really awesome way to collect cell phone #s and credit card #s of suckers good samaritan evangelicals.
posted by Theta States at 1:32 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, every time I see something like this about Stephen Baldwin, I get very sad that Adam Baldwin is related to him, and then I remember that he's not, and then I'm happy again.

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.
posted by EarBucket at 1:32 PM on April 22, 2010

Not actually a proper Baldwin

He's a right wing idiot too though.
posted by zarah at 1:33 PM on April 22, 2010

He was fucking brilliant in The Usual Suspects. In fact, I tend to think I've seen and liked him in many films, when in fact I think that's probably the only one. I suspect I'm not alone.

You could say the same thing for a lot of the actors in that film, Gabriel Byrne, Kevin Pollak, Chazz Palminteri... just about everyone besides Spacey and Del Toro.

Some great casting in that film, in that they took a bunch of (at the time) C-listers and character actors and gave everyones character such presence it feels like watching a movie with an all star cast.
posted by bobo123 at 1:37 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.

Goddamnit.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:38 PM on April 22, 2010 [14 favorites]

he didn't suck in "The Usual Suspects"

Um, did you watch the movie? Playing a minor role alongside Spacey, Byrne, Del Toro, Pollack, Postlethwaite and Palminteri would make anyone not suck.

Sincerely, Dan Hedaya.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:45 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

As has been pointed out, the lesser Mr. Baldwin has worked continuously since his conversion. Not only that, he has five movies completed or in pre-production.

While it may in fact be true that he isn't getting some offers because of his faith, it may also be the case that he isn't getting work for the same reasons that thousands of other actors in Hollywood aren't getting work.

Thus, assuming that the lesser Mr. Baldwin truly believes he's losing money because of his faith, he is suffering from a persecution complex or some other related delusion.

We'll see if he gets a ton of work on the brand new network dedicated to people like him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:46 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Sorry there, bobo123, didn't notice we're on the same wavelength.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:49 PM on April 22, 2010

yeah- fuck helping Haiti's orphans and instead help this douche stay in his mansion in NY. Seriously. I wasted my time looking up where he lives on TMZ to make myself more outraged.

It makes so pissed off when people from my working class neighborhood have lost their house and their jobs and I see a 55 year old men bagging groceries to do the right thing and do their best to support their family.

Jesus Christ! I hate teabaggers and Palin and that my friend just named her pet after Scott Brown!!
posted by beccaj at 1:54 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Just so we're clear: giving money to people laid off as a result of market excesses to feed their families is communism, "restoring" a man of God who happens to be a rich actor in a family of rich actors all with jobs is God-blessed capitalism.

I hope everyone understands now, so we don't have to have this conversation again.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 1:55 PM on April 22, 2010 [10 favorites]

zarq: how many evangelicals sent Jimmy Swaggart their kids' college funds?

Likely a substantial amount, but not nearly as many as spent their kids' college funds to send their kids to Liberty University, which is morally equivalent.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 1:57 PM on April 22, 2010

You know, I've been known to say some mean things about MeFites, both individually and as a group. But never would I have thought that I would say anything as nasty and meanspirited as this:

I'm starting to suspect that some of you aren't diehard John Carpenter fans.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:58 PM on April 22, 2010 [11 favorites]

Likely a substantial amount, but not nearly as many as spent their kids' college funds to send their kids to Liberty University, which is morally equivalent.

And educationally equivalent.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:58 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.

He used to hang out at one of the big Firefly fan boards and good god, he posted right-wing BS so often I wondered when he had time to do any acting. It's sad, really, since by all accounts he's a pretty good guy otherwise.
posted by kmz at 1:59 PM on April 22, 2010

Favorite Stephen Baldwin moment ever: I reviewed a Christian witness movie he starred in for a local paper a few years ago. The best money quote of the film (and there were many) was Baldwin's. When his character has his big epiphany at the end of the film, he talks about holding his mother in his arms as she died (car crash, IIRC). Her dying words to him were to tell him to cut his long hair, and at that moment he makes a life-changing decision:

"And I thought, you know what, I will... when there's justice."
posted by middleclasstool at 2:04 PM on April 22, 2010 [5 favorites]

You know I like to think of myself as a man who is learned in

1) pop culture,
2) the (albeit limited) representation of queer sexuality in (sort of) mainstream cinema in the early 1990s, and
3) LOL-religious celebrities


So it pains me that this is the first time I realized that Stephen is the same Baldwin who did it with *a dude* and *a girl from Twin Peaks* in Threesome. Wonder what his current cronies think of that little bit of ass grabbing?


FYI: (a dude) + (a girl from Twin Peaks) = pretty much my greatest sexual fantasy when I was a teen...yet even I thought this movie was repugnant...though for not the same reason.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:14 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

At least donate enough so that he can afford a spellchecker.
posted by Falconetti at 2:14 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

beccaj: Our girl cat is named Steve Doocy and no one has yet confused us with teabaggers.
posted by absalom at 2:19 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

FYI: (a dude) + (a girl from Twin Peaks) = pretty much my greatest sexual fantasy when I was a teen

Yeah, but which dude?
posted by blucevalo at 2:24 PM on April 22, 2010

Yeah, but which dude?

When I was that age? Um, sadly, just about any one of them that would have me and would keep their mouth shut...

(Actually, I was out by the time that movie came out...but only just.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:26 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

How the heck can you play in 60+ movies and still be filing bankruptcy? Gross financial mismanagement? Drugs and hookers? Gambling addiction? Donated all his money to Jesus?

I don't get it.

Ah well. Dude had a hot ass and pretty eyes in Threesome.
posted by darkstar at 2:28 PM on April 22, 2010

How many of you lunatics watched Threesome? What the hell?
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:30 PM on April 22, 2010 [11 favorites]

Father, why hast thou forsaken me? (I'm hatin' on the commies and libruls and fags just like you want.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:34 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Way too many of us, but it was well worth it.
posted by blucevalo at 2:34 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

(Referring back to Astro Zombie)
posted by blucevalo at 2:35 PM on April 22, 2010

Wow, for such a poor man, he seems to be eating well...

He was spotted last month over at the Caliza, taking his entire family out to dinner, having cocktails poolside, and posing with local hotties.

So, do you think he ordered the grilled lobster or the Kobe steak? With or without pommes frittes?
posted by markkraft at 2:35 PM on April 22, 2010

I'm not sure I've ever told this story on MeFi before, which is weird, but here goes.

Five or so years ago I had a single day of work on some shoot in upstate New York. Not far upstate, just about an hour and a half away, just past the Tappan Zee bridge really. My job was to drive the Art Truck out there so that the production designer could get moving at the location.

(As an aside, I'm in another line of work now, and when people ask me as they often do what it was like workin in film and tv, I should really just respond that it involved a hell of a lot more truck-driving than you'd expect from a guy as tiny as me.)

Anyway, I get over the Tappan Zee and the directions have blown into the cube because I had the window open, so suddenly I have no idea where I'm going and I just need a place to pull over, which turns out not to be so easy around there. I exit onto one road after another, trying to keep track so that I can find my way back to the highway, until finally I find a spot which, far from ideal, at least had room for me to stop and look for my mapquest printout.

By "far from ideal" I mean that it was on a curvy, forested, uphill road with no homes or businesses in sight, but I pulled over on the outside of one of the curves to make sure people would at least see me there.

I grab the directions and find that they actually aren't helpful to me at all by this point anyway. As I'm sitting in the driver's seat, A guy passes by very slowly in an old Honda Civic, and we sort of look each other over. I know him from somewhere, and he's giving me the same sort of look, so I figure it's some dude from NYU that I can't quite place.

I put it out of my head and call up Len, the production designer, to help me figure out how to get to the place, but his party hasn't even gotten out of the city yet, so we're acting like a couple of fools trying to figure out where the hell I am and where the hell we're all going and getting nowhere but I've got a truck full of valuable artwork on the side of the road in West Nyack and then, oh god, the Civic just came back up the road and has pulled up and parked right ahead of me.

It starts to dawn on me as the man gets out of the car and heads over to my window, and I'm trying to keep concentrating on the phone conversation, but he's coming right up to my door, and opens it, and-

"Can I help you, brah?"

Len, on the other end of the line- "Is that the cops?"

Me, flustered- "No, it's the, uh... it's the Baldwins."

I get off the phone, and Stephen Baldwin tells me that I'm pulled over in a really unsafe place, and I tell him that yes, I know, but I'm lost and trying to get over to this place (which wasn't in Nyack or West Nyack) and he says, "Well, I don't know where that is exactly, but I can at least get you halfway there. Follow me."

And so Stephen Baldwin gets back in his car and leads me to the township I was heading for, wishes me well, and takes off for wherever he was heading before taking a half-hour out of his day to help a lost stranger.

This site is ridiculous, yes, but you know what? I like Stephen Baldwin. Partially for being awesome in The Usual Suspects, and partially because, while he may be Born Again, he at least walks the walk of it. That was kind.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:39 PM on April 22, 2010 [186 favorites]

Fuck. This. Asshole.
posted by joe lisboa at 2:41 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Context: Long ago, when God restored Job he used Token Gifting as the mechanism for his restoration ...
posted by joe lisboa at 2:42 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

"I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger."

Well that's just about ruined my day. I guess it makes his Firefly character more realistic.
posted by saturnine at 2:46 PM on April 22, 2010 [12 favorites]

A bit more on Alys Beach, where Stephen and his family were staying as celebrity guests. So clean, so peaceful. So white.

Do you think Stephen is a Key Lime Pie guy (with raspberry coulis... such a bargain at only $7 a slice!) or a dark chocolate gateau man, with minted Crème Anglaise?

Of course, as a celebrity guest, Mr. Baldwin is above such basics as the cost of a $400 dinner and $1000 stay for him and his family. God provides!
posted by markkraft at 2:46 PM on April 22, 2010

Wait, doesn't Baldwin's character have a short-lived religious freakout near the end of Threesome, making his conversion extra funny?



I WAS FOURTEEN WHEN THIS MOVIE CAME OUT DON'T YOU JUDGE ME
posted by clavicle at 2:52 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

How many of you lunatics watched Threesome? What the hell?

It was a different time, man. A different time.

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.

adamsbaldwin: "Environmental Sustainability" is a partisan political issue.

Aw, what the fuck??
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 2:53 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

God, I'm getting the Baldwins all confused in my head. I had to double check which Baldwin was in Homicide to make sure it wasn't Stephen.
posted by never used baby shoes at 2:59 PM on April 22, 2010

> From what I read in public court documents Stephen needs several million dollars to pay all of his creditors but he deserves hundreds of millions for his Job like faithfulness in the face of relentless loss and persecution.

If this isn't a joke it's the worst thing I've seen on the internet today, and I spent my morning putting together mashups of goatse and 2 Girls 1 Cup.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:01 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Adam Baldwin IS, after all, the guy in Full Metal Jacket who uttered the immortal Teabagger line "All fucking niggers must hang."
posted by grubi at 3:02 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

This was pre-conversion, but a friend of mine then working at MTV had reason to interact with him a few times, in regards to what I don't recall, and said he was one of the nicer celebs he'd dealt with.

Still ain't sending him money.
posted by jalexei at 3:02 PM on April 22, 2010

My Bodyguard is .....is.......a........teabagger?

Can I have the room please? I need a moment alone.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:07 PM on April 22, 2010

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.
posted by EarBucket at 5:32 AM on April 23 [+] [!]

FUCK!

Well that's going on my list of things I wish I could unsee. Now I'm going to be sad all day.
posted by gc at 3:07 PM on April 22, 2010 [8 favorites]

Yeah, I followed Adam Baldwin on Twitter for about a day. Where does he find the time to post all that garbage?
posted by adamdschneider at 3:09 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

This website was created to see a rebirth of that mechanism. If the people of God come together and each give a small “Token Gift” we can see a massive restoration of a Christian public figure and all the glory will go to God. Its simple, will you take part in the second ever All Who Know Him event?

"And I thought, you know what, I will... when there's justice."
posted by mazola at 3:10 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

You forgot the "token grifting" tag.
posted by joe lisboa at 3:12 PM on April 22, 2010

I certainly would love to give my money to a celebrity who has blown the oodles of money he made already because he claims to believe in the magic sky man. And, yes, we should all expect that 10% of Christendom will send us coinage if we loudly proclaim our belief. This is only right and just. WTF?
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:12 PM on April 22, 2010

Which of the Arquettes is the transvestite who can suck his own cock? I nominate him as Stephens Arquette nemesis.
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on April 22, 2010 [5 favorites]

What's the point of being a nice guy -- and a Christian -- if you expect material benefit and public acclaim and attention for such behavior? Isn't that the kind of behavior that Christ spoke against, as far as how you should handle charitable works and good deeds?

You'd think Stephen would be telling the people running this to STFU, rather than trying to milk his good deeds like this.
posted by markkraft at 3:19 PM on April 22, 2010 [3 favorites]

Artw: I'm going to just guess it's Alexis Arquette, though I have no proof of what you're saying.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:23 PM on April 22, 2010

Some have asked why $4.21. Job 42:10-11 is the model and inspiration for this movement. $4.21 is the lowest possible left to right combination of these scriptures.

Makes sense to me.

Working at a 7-11 would bring to mind Job 7:11 -- ""Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul."

Wait a minute, this really works!
posted by mazola at 3:24 PM on April 22, 2010 [8 favorites]

Which of the Arquettes is the transvestite who can suck his own cock? I nominate him as Stephens Arquette nemesis.

Isn't he also the lead singer from Tool?
posted by joe lisboa at 3:41 PM on April 22, 2010

> Sincerely, Dan Hedaya.

I understand what you're getting at, but Dan Hedaya was brilliant in Blood Simple.
posted by Brak at 3:42 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

I wonder why Denzel Washington doesn't seem to have a problem getting hired or saving his money? Hell, even John Schneider is doing pretty well (against all odds).

Interesting 700 Club interview:

Baldwin: So, we hired this lady from Brazil named Augusta, and the whole first week she's working for us she's singing in Portuguese, which she only spoke that language with my wife. She's singing about Jesus, and my wife comes to me in a few days and asks me, "Do you hear what she’s singing about? She’s singing about Jesus." My wife, after a few more days, approaches her. "I noticed your singing, and I’m wondering why every song is about Jesus?" Augusta had this very interesting reaction. She burst out laughing. My wife said, "What's so funny?" She said, "Quite frankly, I think it's a little bit funny that you think I’m here to clean your house."

Ross: Isn't this why you hired her?

Baldwin: She goes on to tell my wife that, before she had accepted the job, she prayed with her pastor and some church members in Brazil. She was told through a prophetic word that, if she went to live with the Baldwins, then one day Kenya and Stephen would come to faith in Jesus Christ and be involved in ministry.

Ross: She told all this to your wife?

Baldwin: I haven't told this part of the story a lot. She had a dream and saw me, saw my wife and saw my first daughter Aliya.

Ross: Now, how did you guys handle hearing this little bit of information?

Baldwin: Didn’t faze me for a second.

And an Observer profile from January 2010:

Stephen was convinced that 9/11 was a sign from the Lord. Which it may have been, though it's hard to believe that God caused all that tragedy just to inform one fairly successful actor that he should jack in his career and start skateboarding for Jesus.

posted by mrgrimm at 3:43 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is totally a fake. If it were a real conservative/religious site the web design would make you want to stab out your eyeballs.

And the official Twitter is following Steve Agee (one of the gay-bors on the Sarah Silverman Show) and Shit My Dad Says.

Poe's Law for the win.
posted by turaho at 3:43 PM on April 22, 2010 [5 favorites]

Ho Lee Shit

http://restorestephenbaldwin.org/qa.html

Q- Why does Stephen need personal wealth?
A- Stephen’s influence is in Hollywood. Hollywood worships money and without it you are seen as a loser and cannot be an effective influence to this group.

Q- How much money does he need?
A- From what I read in public court documents Stephen needs several million dollars to pay all of his creditors but he deserves hundreds of millions for his Job like faithfulness in the face of relentless loss and persecution.

THIS CANNOT BE REAL!!!!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:46 PM on April 22, 2010

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.

What? Shit! Damnit, NO! Ok, I didn't see that, you didn't link it, it is not true and doesn't exist and I don't even know what you're talking about, and also I can't hear you LA LA LALALALALA LA LA LALA, nice weather we're having, isn't it?
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 3:47 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

Ah yes... this bit. Pretty much the cornerstone of how to behave as a Christian...

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men."

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. . .

"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
posted by markkraft at 3:48 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

I was sure it was fake, too, but what about the minister's video?

Chris Musgrove and Future Now are real. And I can't imagine they would go for a spoof like this ...
posted by mrgrimm at 3:52 PM on April 22, 2010

Q- Who does Stephen try to reach with his ministries?
A- From Hollywood to large arena events in the inner cities drawing troubled youth with motocross jumping and Extreme games.

Looks like his ministry basically consists of fuckin' around on bikes and boards, just like Jesus asked us to do. Is that how it works -- pick any random activity and call it your "ministry?" I admit to not being fully versed on the whole evangelical self-priesting works. I wonder how many walk among use whose ministries are playing Xbox 360?
posted by contessa at 3:59 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

This appeal must be a parody, but it sure sounds like a natural outgrowth of Prosperity Gospel. Good Christians deserve wealth. So do the Baldwins. Why aren't you giving Stephen the wealth that Jesus says should be his?
posted by Nelson at 4:17 PM on April 22, 2010

Looks real to me. The company that did the site, SPX, also did the trailer for Baldwin's new movie "Now More Than Ever"
posted by Biblio at 4:19 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Adam Baldwin blocked me on Twitter after I sent out a warning to my chums about the teabagging thing being soul destroying. Intellectual diversity intolerance ho! I'm very amused.

So er, anyway... isn't this Stephen Baldwin thing a very good troll website? No one could possibly think of donating to his fap-fest rather than a children's charity?
posted by saturnine at 4:42 PM on April 22, 2010 [2 favorites]

As I mentioned on Twitter, it seems that Adam Baldwin was not actually playing a role as Jayne.

(He's still my favorite, though.)
posted by brundlefly at 5:09 PM on April 22, 2010

Just wait till Scott Baio hears about this.

Yeah. And wait until he learns about Dusty Diamond (aka Samuel "Screech" Powers) who made online appeals in 2006 for folks to buy his T-shirt ("I paid 15 dollars to help Screeech [sic] save his house") to help him settle his "alleged debt."

Previous FPP: Saved by the T-Shirt?
posted by ericb at 5:26 PM on April 22, 2010

Man, I can't wait until Alec Baldwin makes a genuine bid for political office and his brothers have to shut the hell up or conveniently disappear from public view indefinitely.

Stephen, if you're reading this, I'm praying for you. I'm not gonna send money because God will provide, hopefully by giving you the opportunity to star in the entire Jesus Chronicles saga alongside MC Hammer, Kirk Cameron and Jane Fonda. You know it's a good idea, dude. Tim LaHaye JUST KEEPS ON WRITING.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:28 PM on April 22, 2010

I say we take bankrupt Stephen Baldwin and wealthy Tom Cruise, lock them in a room somewhere, and see who comes out standing.

Or converted.
posted by bwg at 6:01 PM on April 22, 2010 [1 favorite]

Hmm...Stephen Baldwin and Tom Cruise locked in a closet together...
posted by darkstar at 6:28 PM on April 22, 2010

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW
posted by hangashore at 6:37 PM on April 22, 2010

From the same people that bring you Xtreme Politically Active Conservatives and HollywoodMom
posted by tellurian at 6:59 PM on April 22, 2010

What if 10% of the 159 million Christians in America gave a Token Gift? What if 10% of the worlds 2 billion Christians gave a token gift? What would the media have to say about such an event?

S. Baldwin: Gee Thanks. This is so neat. I would write everyone a thank you note, but it would take too long, so I'll just pray to God to bless each and every one of you.

Media: Has every Christian on earth lost their mind? Is it something in the water? Is it alien mind control? Mass hysteria?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 PM on April 22, 2010

I'll say it, "skin for skin."
posted by wobh at 7:27 PM on April 22, 2010

The good news: every dollar Stevil Baldwin gets to put in his own pocket is one dollar less going to American Talibanists running for elective office.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:18 PM on April 22, 2010

Before I clicked the link, I was hoping that it was gonna be about restoring him back to not being Christian any more.

I was disappointed.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 9:12 PM on April 22, 2010

I had never heard of Daniel Baldwin until this thread, and only now do I realize what I have been missing all these years. From his Wikipedia page: "In 1998, he was found running naked through the halls of New York's Plaza Hotel shouting "Baldwin" and was arrested for possession of cocaine."
posted by superquail at 9:15 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

I'm disappointed as well to find out about Adam Baldwin's teabaggin' ways. But this quote (which will probably be gone soon) from his wikipedia page is still great:

"In 2009 he was traded for Stephen into the prestigious Baldwin brothers family."
posted by Navelgazer at 9:55 PM on April 22, 2010 [12 favorites]

But who would be his Arquette nemesis?

Actually, l think the Arquettes Vs. Baldwins game may need to be revised, because looking at this the extended family contains both Big Daddy AND the Punisher, and that's just too fun not to bring in.
posted by Artw at 9:57 PM on April 22, 2010

I wonder what the dissolute elder statesman Alec thinks of all this.
posted by blucevalo at 10:21 PM on April 22, 2010

Alec is and always will be the best Baldwin.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:23 PM on April 22, 2010 [4 favorites]

My evangelical fam would always moan about how actors they disagree with were also shitty actors. Then, when one would convert they would suddenly start appreciating all their films. Example: my dad hated usual suspects until very recently. I thought I caused his change in heart, apparently not.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:02 AM on April 23, 2010

Unreal
posted by electricsandwich138 at 1:23 AM on April 23, 2010

I get a little sad every time I remember that Adam Baldwin's a teabagger.

I...won't be in my bunk.
posted by biscotti at 4:20 AM on April 23, 2010 [2 favorites]

My favorite part of the site is at the very bottom of every page.

Follow us and spread the word about "Restore Stephen Baldwin" on the social networks:

...followed by a list of 33(!) social networking sites, some of which sound even more ridiculously made-up than usual. "Koornk"? "Utterli"? People still use Xanga? Say what you will about the ethos behind the site, they're nothing but thorough when it comes to avenues for spamming the internets.
posted by anthom at 5:38 AM on April 23, 2010 [3 favorites]

Can I just register how much I despise everything about Charles in Charge?

Yes, I know this is the Stephen Baldwin thread.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:20 AM on April 23, 2010 [3 favorites]

Navelgazer: while he may be Born Again, he at least walks the walk of it.

Right.

Actor Stephen Baldwin: Gay Marriage Not Acceptable

It's nice that he helped you out with directions that one time and saved you some relatively minor inconvenience, but there are a hell of a lot of people that would have done the same who aren't guilty of what Stephen is. I hope he does end up picking at his sores on an ash-heap.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:45 AM on April 23, 2010 [6 favorites]

Adam Baldwin's twitter is terribly depressing, but Nathan Fillion's is absolutely charming. For those Firefly fans who've been terribly disillusioned by this thread.
posted by Mavri at 8:38 AM on April 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

I spent my morning putting together mashups of goatse and 2 Girls 1 Cup.

Grossest use of the word "mashup" ever.
posted by brundlefly at 9:25 AM on April 23, 2010

Adam Baldwin's twitter is terribly depressing

I didn't even know he existed before yesterday (oh yeah, the generic asshole guy who was in D.C. Cab), but his Twitter feed is nuts. I smell flameout.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:57 AM on April 23, 2010

Not actually a proper Baldwin

Yeah, every time I see something like this about Stephen Baldwin, I get very sad that Adam Baldwin is related to him, and then I remember that he's not, and then I'm happy again. It is a constant emotional rollercoaster.

oh holy shit, thank god. all this time I assumed he was part of The Dreaded Family.
posted by shmegegge at 12:15 PM on April 23, 2010

oh god, and then I saw all the comments about him being a teabagger.

*sobs quietly to self... 'our love for him now ain't hard to explain, the hero of canton, the man they call...'*

*sobs harder*
posted by shmegegge at 12:21 PM on April 23, 2010 [4 favorites]

I could have gone happily to my grave without knowing that about the man they call Jane.
posted by JaredSeth at 1:27 PM on April 23, 2010

You know, sometimes I really, really love Metafilter.

And sometimes, Metafilter is the place I learn about how Adam Baldwin is a crazy teabagger and actually sort of is Jayne, but is an asshole Jayne and...and...

*runs sobbing to room*
posted by kalimac at 2:38 PM on April 23, 2010

This Adam Baldwin shit is just something I really did not need to know. It makes me feel really bad about that one time I referred to my sister as "Animal Mother" for about a month. Maybe we could stage an intervention to get him to see the error of his ways? I mean, I know it's probably a lost cause, but he's just so pretty, I feel like I have to try...
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 2:40 PM on April 23, 2010 [1 favorite]

Marcus Hamilton, how could you betray me like this? Oh, right
posted by NoraReed at 4:57 PM on April 23, 2010

This website looks....weird.

Look, my worship pastor knows Steven. I'm gonna send him a link to this and ask him if he knows anything about it. Because I'm getting a weird vibe about it, first, and second, this doesn't really sound like anything Steven would really endorse.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:23 PM on April 23, 2010 [3 favorites]

superquail: I had never heard of Daniel Baldwin until this thread, and only now do I realize what I have been missing all these years. From his Wikipedia page: "In 1998, he was found running naked through the halls of New York's Plaza Hotel shouting "Baldwin" and was arrested for possession of cocaine."

If he was naked, he didn't have any pockets to keep the blow in…maybe he was possessing it in his hand?
posted by paisley henosis at 7:41 PM on April 23, 2010

If he was naked, he didn't have any pockets to keep the blow in…maybe he was possessing it in his hand?

There are other possibilities.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:34 PM on April 23, 2010 [2 favorites]

I don't quite get the begging for money and equating himself to a biblical character to convince people. How does this differentiate from wellfare or any other plan where you try and get help from outside sources?
posted by djduckie at 8:22 AM on April 24, 2010

God, I'm getting the Baldwins all confused in my head.

Weren't they all killed in some nasty little war with Canada?
posted by philip-random at 9:02 AM on April 24, 2010

I don't quite get the begging for money and equating himself to a biblical character to convince people. How does this differentiate from wellfare or any other plan where you try and get help from outside sources?

I'm not against people helping one another out, but I don't think that Baldwin is necessarily eating out of dumpsters -- even with no income at all, even if he were homeless, I am certain that there are families/churches who would feed and clothe him. Do I think his circumstances are that dire? Fuck no I don't, but if they were, he would be okay. Presuming this site is real, all this is about is a guy feeling like he ought to be rich. It's a sense of celebrity entitlement common to Screeech and numerous others and it's bullshit. Stephen Baldwin isn't having a hard time getting an acting gig because he's a Christian; Stephen Baldwin is having a hard time getting an acting gig because getting an acting gig is hard. That sucks, but it doesn't make him Job: it makes him in need of getting a job. Wasn't reality TV basically invented as a bailout for past prime celebrities?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:17 AM on April 24, 2010

SPX Graphics Group...

They also have created and manage the website of Stephen's brother Billy Baldwin.
posted by ericb at 2:29 PM on April 24, 2010

If this is on the up and up I am very disappointed. (Assuming Stephen approved it of course.) Anybody who has been born again understands pretty quickly-or put it that way, we are supposed to understand- that we are called to give up all for Him, period (heck, I even wrote a song about it.) Having heard Steven speak a time or two I wouldn't have pegged him as a person whining about his income. I would have guessed he would have moved on to ministry of some form or fashion (he is or at least was hooked up with folks who had legitimate ministries to young people.)

I know-because I have heard it from the horse's mouth myself-just how Stephen feels about Hollywood. He considers it a cesspool. I can't imagine him whining about not getting jobs there now. Of course, a few years ago I wouldn't have believed what happened re Ted Haggard either, so obviously, anything is possible. Meanwhile, my worship pastor knows nothing about this, and hasn't heard from the dude lately, so I dunno.

But, to put the most charitable (no pun intended) spin on this, let's say some buddies of his saw him in dire straits, wanted to help, and put this together. I think it's probably not a great idea overall but I've seen worse out there (unfortunately.) I know that at least when I met him and his wife he seemed to be pretty genuine with his faith. And I KNOW she is. I talked to her at length and she is anything but a typical Hollywood wife. IIRC she spent weeks and weeks praying for her husband before he came to the Lord and by his own admission he was not particularly the easiest person to live with during that time.

Finally, I actually do have a lot of mercy and pity for people in the public eye who find the Lord. Us obscure folk get to make our mistakes, do our stupid stuff, and hopefully learn from it without the whole world knowing and mocking. Plus most of us have normal friends who will tell us when we are about to do or at the very least condone something stupid. Rich folk and/or famous folk don't seem to have that luxury. I think Stephen generally loves the Lord, and will come out the other end of this wiser, if poorer. ;-)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:29 PM on April 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Burhanistan, being born again doesn't mean you are instantly sinless. Being born again has to do with justification (theologically speaking) while the doctrine of sanctification is something different.

When you are born again, you achieve right standing with God. This has nothing to do with anything you did or did not do, as it is based on the finished work of Christ (He led a sinless life, died to pay for our sin, then was resurrected.) At that point, positionally and 'legally" you are without sin because you have exchanged your life for His. Now sanctification has to do with that legal position becoming a reality in your life. The Bible teaches that that happens gradually, as our minds are renewed. A person who is truly born again will indeed show the fruit of their repentance and salvation, but we do not reach sinless perfection until that day we see Him face to face.

So, what that means in this case? Judging from what I have seen in this Baldwin's life, I do see evidence of the sanctification process-but that does NOT mean dude is perfect. Heck, I'M certainly not perfect. But I do repent when I blow it and presumably so does he.

Now many of you will say you know atheists who live good and moral lives. I am certain you do, and so do I. That is classified theologically as "common grace" and it is a good thing. But unfortunately this would not affect their standing before God as it is only by Jesus that anyone-and I do mean anyone-can achieve right standing with God. Jesus himself said that no one is good but God.

So, basically, Burhanistan, it's not that Stephen's salvation didn't take, assuming he is indeed born again. (Of course, we know that not everyone that claims they are, is. But much more along these lines and you get into the argument about Calvinism versus Arminianism, and...well, let's not.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:32 PM on April 24, 2010

Ah, but from a Christian perspective you are making light of God's sacrifice of his only son. Because the blood of Jesus is the ONLY redress there ever is or ever will be for sin.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:44 PM on April 24, 2010

St. Alia of the Bunnies: “When you are born again, you achieve right standing with God. This has nothing to do with anything you did or did not do, as it is based on the finished work of Christ (He led a sinless life, died to pay for our sin, then was resurrected.) At that point, positionally and 'legally" you are without sin because you have exchanged your life for His. Now sanctification has to do with that legal position becoming a reality in your life. The Bible teaches that that happens gradually, as our minds are renewed. A person who is truly born again will indeed show the fruit of their repentance and salvation, but we do not reach sinless perfection until that day we see Him face to face.St. Alia of the Bunnies: ”

All this "born again" stuff always strikes me as a particularly perverse misreading of the third chapter of John. I have a feeling that when the Christ speaks of "those who are born of water and of the spirit," the emotionally purgative crying ceremony revered by the evangelicals isn't exactly what he has in mind - much less the extremely simplified doctrine of personal choice that it represents.

Burhanistan: “Yeah, I was making a dumb joke. Muslims don't believe in Original Sin but they do baptize themselves 5 times a day with the ablutions prior to the ritual prayers. Being "born again" is a vain narrative that people use to excuse all manner of past misdeeds without proper redress.”

St. Alia of the Bunnies: “Ah, but from a Christian perspective you are making light of God's sacrifice of his only son. Because the blood of Jesus is the ONLY redress there ever is or ever will be for sin.”

First of all, the Bible says no such thing. The Christ tells us that he is the sole bridge between man and god; he does not say that his blood is the only redress for sin, nor does Paul or any other Doctor of the Church. His status as the sole path to the Father and as a sacrifice for sins are two separate things. Second of all - it isn't making light of the sacrifice to doubt the simplified evangelical reading of the third chapter of John, and to wonder whether the text might be saying something a bit deeper than evangelicals commonly believe it to today.
posted by koeselitz at 5:05 PM on April 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Well, from how I understand repentance part of it IS going back to redress things you have done wrong. That's part of the "fruit" of genuine repentance. In other words, if you are not willing to make right what you have done wrong, you haven't really repented. OTOH the thief on the cross did not have the ability to jump off the cross to give back what he had stolen but Jesus did declare him forgiven. Because, again, it's the finished work of Christ that does the work of paying for the sin. Now, if the thief had been taken down from the cross and given a second chance at his life instead of dying that day, naturally, God would expect him to act like a forgiven one and to make restitution to the best of his ability. But again, that is in the realm of sanctification, not justification.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:05 PM on April 24, 2010

Koeselitz, all I can say to you is that after two semesters of college systematic theology, I was indeed taught that "the blood of Jesus" is indeed the only propitiation for our sins. The whole sacrificial system of the OT was an illustration and a precursor to Jesus, one of whose names is the Lamb of God.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:07 PM on April 24, 2010

You were taught this, fine - but did they give a reason? Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how the OT's character as an illustration of the final sacrifice indicates that the blood of Christ is "indeed the only propitiation for our sins." Much to the contrary, in fact, Abraham was forgiven without this propitiation. I search the scriptures and the saints in vain; they might have simply forgotten to mention it, but I'd need a reason to believe that this is the case.
posted by koeselitz at 5:16 PM on April 24, 2010

Abraham was forgiven without this propitiation

In Genesis-and later, quoted in the New Testament-it says "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

First, Abraham lived before-and was the ancestor of-the Hebrews to which God gave the OT sacrificial regulations. You may recall the story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar, in which the rich man went to hell and the beggar went to what was called Abraham's bosom-literally, he was with Abraham. Apparently the OT "righteous"-i.e. those who believed God-went to a special place after death which was NOT hell-but afterwards, when Jesus died, and was resurrected, the OT saints did ascend. In fact (and this is something that is glossed over and not preached on much) when Jesus died, this happened:
(Matthew 27:50-53)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Burhanistan, I get what you are saying, but in any case making restitution, while extremely important, does not in itself get you forgiveness. And unfortunately many new Christians aren't really discipled properly to know that yes, you really do need to clean up your messes as best you can-the story of Zaccheus is a good model. The proof of Zaccheus's salvation was his desire to rectify his former shady dealings.

And again, as Christians, we are taught that all mankind is theologically speaking "totally depraved" and incapable of anything good. Even our best acts are evil compared to the holiness of God, which is why what Jesus did for us is so incredible. None of us was, is or would ever be worthy of it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:56 PM on April 24, 2010

The whole sacrificial system of the OT was an illustration and a precursor to Jesus

You'd be surprised how much Jews love hearing that.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:11 PM on April 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Burhanistan, thanks for the link and the conversation...it really is a different perspective but I think it's helpful to understand the difference.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:01 PM on April 24, 2010

Blah blah blah Jesuscakes.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:03 PM on April 24, 2010

Burhanistan: “Anyway, I brought that up because I've seen many evangelicals and born agains who lived questionable lifestyles prior to becoming Christians, but then they did nothing to redress the trail of destruction after their conversion. They changed their ways, but they didn't make amends with others. It seems like they only took the step towards the doorway but didn't charge through, and were satisfied with just the vague feeling of being saved or whatever.”

Which is one of the deepest proofs that exists that evangelicalism has nothing to do with Christianity: the fact that evangelicals are typically bloodless, fruitless, without peace or happiness, and not given any spiritual context or guidance whatsoever. Ted Haggard was not unique; he was actually typical of evangelical leaders, if not in his actions then in his ignorance of his own spirit and of his spiritual health. I don't blame this on them, but it damages many people who seek spiritual guidance in their quarters.

St. Alia of the Bunnies: “And unfortunately many new Christians aren't really discipled properly...”

Hear, hear. I put this down to evangelicalism. Hopefully, however, within a generation or two, this ridiculous modern movement might be dead or at least dying.
posted by koeselitz at 12:45 AM on April 25, 2010

You'd be surprised how much Jews love hearing that.

Although her comment may reveal something about the shallowness of (her) Christian perspective of the Old Testament, since Christian theology was the sole context for her remarks, I'm personally okay with it.

I disagree with her, of course. But she's not making a sweeping, dismissive statement about the Jewish beliefs. At least, that's not how I'm reading her comment to koeselitz.
posted by zarq at 6:07 AM on April 25, 2010

With regard to the word "shallowness" in my last comment....

Since Calvin, most Christian sects have viewed the Talmud (Old Testament) primarily as a tool with which to find messianic prophecies of Jesus. Christian doctrine for the last few centuries has been that the New Testament should be the focus, as it is a direct work of the Holy Spirit and a revelation to all of humanity, not just the people of Israel. This is an understandable attempt to reinforce Christian religious doctrine. But from a Jewish perspective, the Old Testament is the foundation for one of humanity's oldest, still-being-practiced religions. It seems a particularly shallow perspective to take of a rich, much-interpreted text. On the other hand, also from a Jewish perspective, it would also be nice if some Christians would refrain from (mis)interpreting our religious texts to justify their beliefs. So... six of one... half a dozen of the other. :)
posted by zarq at 6:23 AM on April 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

To be fair, zarq, you could look at Christianity simply as a branch of Judaism since without OT Judaism there would BE no Christianity, period. And of course the earliest Christians were all Jews-there was actually a discussion (see book of Acts if you are interested) re whether nonJews were entitled to become Christians. As you might know in those days Jews would not interact with gentiles as the latter were considered unclean.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:10 AM on April 25, 2010

Alia, I'm concerned that my wording might inadvertently be insulting to you, and that wasn't what I intended. So I do want to clarify that I absolutely wasn't trying to say your religious beliefs are shallow. I think interpreting all sacrifice in the old testament as solely existing to herald the coming of Jesus is a superficial way to read the texts.

To modern Jews, Christianity is a separate religion that is not considered part of Judaism. We do not consider Christianity a branch of Judaism. A number of your core beliefs (triune G-d, Jesus as messiah, proselytism etc.,) are antithetical to Jewish ones. I realize that some may believe that our two religions are extremely similar, or that Christianity is simply Judaism + Jesus, but in truth the foundation of Christianity rests on several ideas which Jews simply do not believe in. And Christians do not follow a number of the core tenets of our religion, either. And as the centuries have passed, they have further diverged. "Original sin" is a good example of this. The concept was developed in the fourth century into what modern Christians recognize, but it doesn't exist that way in Judaism. Idolatry would be another.
posted by zarq at 8:44 AM on April 25, 2010

Idolatry? Curious, what's the Jewish perspective?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:24 AM on April 25, 2010

(Oh, and no offense taken, btw. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:25 AM on April 25, 2010

Yeah, to reconcile any logical moral or philosophical system with the sprawling diversity that is the Bible, OT or NT together or separately, requires pretzel logic or ignoring large swaths of text. But it's a fun game.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:38 PM on April 25, 2010

Why doesn't he go join up forces with Kirk Cameron? Honestly, he's just whining. There are plenty of born again types making movies. Kirk Cameron made tons of money with Fireproof. He could do a Christian record or write some Christian book of sayings or stories whatever and sell it at Wal-Mart. He could get a divinity degree online and raise money to start his own church. He could be a Christian counselor to the D-list stars. There are loads of things he could do.
posted by anniecat at 1:56 PM on April 25, 2010

Exactly, anniecat. Lots of folks would work with him.

Actually, last I heard he was working with someone doing some sort of radio show....that's been awhile back tho. Not sure how that went.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:00 PM on April 25, 2010

Yeah, and most malls have at least one store that is specifically set up to sell that sort of thing. I went Christmas shopping with my mom in December and we went into a store like that- Zondervan? Something like that?- and if you've never been to one, the enormous variety of Christian-targeted (and particularly evangelical-targeted) media is overwhelming. These stores aren't the Washington Times; they stay open because there's a huge market for what they sell. There's no reason Baldwin can't make a great living making the kinds of movies that get sold there.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:05 PM on April 25, 2010

Yeah. When Keith Green was alive he called that sort of thing "Jesus junk."
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:07 PM on April 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

I hadn't heard that phrase, but this blog about it is pretty hilarious.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:38 PM on April 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

Jesus...
posted by Artw at 3:46 PM on April 25, 2010

Oy vey...
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:07 PM on April 25, 2010

If we're going to compare acting families I'm siding with the Cusacks.

Sure you know about Joan and John, and Bill and Susie haven't done much, but did you know about Ann?

While we could argue about which of the two heavyweights (Alec or John) would come out on top (I don't see Rossana, the top-dog in that family, as being in their league.) The Baldwin's and Arquette's definitely do not have a combo that can match John and Joan together. When you factor in Ann's rather credible list of work I think they are all but completely out of reach. Frankly, when you consider that it would be up to William Baldwin or David Arquette to have a major career upswing just to match Joan Cusack, I don't see how it's remotely a contest.

Cusack's for the win (and they want their two dollars).
posted by oddman at 5:21 PM on April 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

St. Alia of the Bunnies: Idolatry? Curious, what's the Jewish perspective?

They're agi'n it?

The Second Commandment?
posted by paisley henosis at 5:38 PM on April 25, 2010

Idolatry? Curious, what's the Jewish perspective?

It's absolutely banned. No worshiping of idols, symbols, relics or any physical / material representations of G-d or any other religion's deity. Jews believe that G-d is formless, and should not be anthropomorphised. There are passages in various texts that refer to G-d's anatomy, such as "the hand of G-d" but these are pretty much universally acknowledged to be poetic references and not literal descriptions.

So, we are not supposed to pray to statues and other icons, such as paintings or other "flat images" and religious portraits, or even symbols like the Cross. Modern Jewish temples and synagogues may have paintings and/or stained glass windows, but they almost never have statues, which fall under the definition of "graven images."

I know that Protestants used to have similar objections to religious icons, out of concern that an object would be inappropriately (to them) worshiped as holy.
posted by zarq at 5:43 PM on April 25, 2010

(Oh, and no offense taken, btw. )

I'm glad. Thank you. :)
posted by zarq at 5:45 PM on April 25, 2010

I know that Protestants used to have similar objections to religious icons, out of concern that an object would be inappropriately (to them) worshiped as holy.

I remember being about thirteen-fourteen when a good friend (a Baptist, on Sundays at least) pointed out that I was a Satanist because I was Roman Catholic (on Sundays, at least).

"Huh?" I said.
"You guys worship a graven image," he said.
"What's that?" I said.
"A cross," he said. "It's even worse if there's a Jesus on it."
"Weird," I said.

And then no doubt, we rolled a joint, got high and listened to Ziggy Stardust or something else suitably righteous.
posted by philip-random at 5:59 PM on April 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

John and Joan Cusack's scenes together in Grosse Point Blank are amazing. I mean, I pretty much love that movie from start to finish, but they're particularly good.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:26 PM on April 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

That movie is just all sorts of goodness, PG.
posted by oddman at 7:26 PM on April 25, 2010

It was the first VHS tape I ever bought, it was the third or fourth DVD I ever bought, and I'm sure it'll be one of the first MIND-O-VISION chips I buy.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:46 PM on April 25, 2010

(I'd like to quickly thank St. Alia of the Bunnies, Burhanistan, and zarq for a nice exchange of views on sin and redemption.)
posted by wobh at 6:21 AM on April 26, 2010

I keep meaning to mention this even though I alluded to it in a previous comment: Original Sin is also antithetical to Jewish teachings. We are taught that humans are flawed, but are not innately sinful. As a result, we have free will and the ability to make moral choices. This concept of mankind having free will and responsibility for our own nature drives many of our religious traditions.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on April 26, 2010

(I'd like to quickly thank St. Alia of the Bunnies, Burhanistan, and zarq for a nice exchange of views on sin and redemption.)

Actually, I'd really like to thank Burhanistan and St. Alia, too. I was only vaguely aware of how Muslims view Jesus, and their discussion and the wikipedia article were fascinating.
posted by zarq at 8:21 AM on April 26, 2010

I know that at least when I met him and his wife he seemed to be pretty genuine with his faith. And I KNOW she is. I talked to her at length and she is anything but a typical Hollywood wife.

Pray tell, what is a "typical Hollywood wife"? With examples, please.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:31 PM on April 26, 2010

Okay, you ask, I answer: Stephen's wife did NOT have bleached blond hair, did NOT have augmented boobs, was NOT dressed flashily or expensively..was not wearing a ton of makeup....in other words she would have blended right in to the rest of our rather large and extensive congregation and none of us would have been able to pick her out of the crowd. And she didn't have a bunch of "friends" (i. e. bouncers) around her-she was very approachable.

We talked, mostly about the parts of her husband's testimony concerning her, and how she had prayed for him. I shared some personal things of my own, she gave me advice.
She had real spiritual depth to her. It was like talking to anyone else one might meet at church.

Famous people usually give off a particular "air." Neither one of them did. It was refreshing. One of my former bosses had brought them in on his private plane (when their previous connection had messed up) and he got to know them pretty well...totally normal, not pretentious at all. In fact I teased that they had been separated at birth because Stephen and my former boss had similar mannerisms and personalities.

I have been around other well known people. These were some of the most down to earth nice people I have ever met, and it was a privilege.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:22 PM on April 26, 2010

Did you like Death to Smoochy?
posted by oddman at 8:27 PM on April 26, 2010

Never saw it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:03 PM on April 27, 2010

SPOILER: There was no Smoochy. It was just Edward Norton all along.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:28 PM on April 27, 2010

Alright, let's go pray and get shitfaced.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:12 AM on April 28, 2010

I just watched the latest South Park and in the final frames it said "Visit restorestephenbaldwin.org". Not sure what that means, but it's worth saying for posterity.
posted by nosila at 8:34 PM on April 28, 2010

Stephen Baldwin responds in an interview about the website.
posted by jedicus at 11:15 AM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]

Stephen Baldwin responds in an interview about the website.

Is it me, or does he come off as a douche?

Summarize; No, I have nothing to do with it ... yeah, I'll take any money they offer.

..

"This is a thing the dude who started it wanted people to do in addition to their normal charitable giving."
posted by mrgrimm at 11:57 AM on May 4, 2010

(Emphasis mine)

From restorestephenbaldwin.com:

Stephen Baldwin of the famous “Baldwin Brothers” Hollywood clan is a veteran actor who has starred in over 60 films and TV shows. He is no stranger to the Hollywood life of glitz, glamour and the public eye.

In 2002, he had an experience that changed his life forever. He became a Born Again Christian, giving his life to Jesus Christ. Over the next few years, he became very vocal about his faith, using his spotlight to boldly preach the gospel. However, because of his convictions it has caused him the loss of many jobs and the most recently, a highly publicized bankruptcy.

He has been publicly ridiculed and insulted by people who think that he has been abandoned by God. A simple search through the internet will reveal that people not only mock Stephen, but mock God.

From the interview:

The donations that the site gets, they're meant to go to you directly, or to their cause?
...
Well, as a result of my decision that I made as my born-again Christian faith -- again, I take full responsibility of that. I'm a big boy and I made that choice. I made the choice to no longer participate in playing those roles in the past, it affected my income. I was easily making a million and a half to two million bucks a year and living pretty dang good. So again, if I was willing to play roles in the past where the content allowed for me to use certain bad language or participate in scenes that had certain sexual content -- I'm feeling like I just don't want to play those roles anymore.

He turned down jobs. He was typecast, made a conscious choice not to take on certain roles and lost income because of it. The "restore" site makes it sound as if he's somehow being persecuted because of his beliefs. On the contrary, he screwed himself over and admits it.
posted by zarq at 11:57 AM on May 4, 2010 [2 favorites]

You know -- if it didn't make me so sick to my stomach, I could nearly applaud the guy who decided that he could make money off the impulse that certain Christian fundamentalists have towards longing to be a victim.

That's a big 'nearly' -- such a big nearly that it really makes the using the word there incorrect.

Almost as big as the 'might' in the next sentence.

I might give some money to that website.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:56 PM on May 4, 2010

More LOLXIANS?
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:06 PM on May 4, 2010

I think Stephen should have maybe vetted this better. I'm wondering just how trustworthy the authors of this site are.

Stephen, if you ever see this, I think you rock, dude, but this is not how God takes care of His people, I don't think-this has too much potential to be something that robs sincere believers of their dinero and doesn't help YOU out financially or publically. Be wise as a serpent, dude, as well as innocent as a dove.

I'm scared these folks are taking you for a ride. If they really wanted to do something awesome, I think they might have started with Kevin Turner. BTW, google him. You might wanna throw some love HIS way.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:56 PM on May 4, 2010

Ignore Stephen Baldwin - Restore Joss Whedon
posted by homunculus at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2010