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I'm absolutely, 100 percent, not guilty.
April 28, 2010 2:44 PM   Subscribe

Orange juice, consumed in 70 percent of American homes, isn't quite as all natural as the "Not From Concentrate" on its label implies. According to Alyssa Hamilton's book Squeezed, raw juice is often heated, stripped of its volatile compounds and flavor-rich oils, and stored for as long as a year before it reaches the consumer. Something called "the flavor pack" is used to return most of the "natural" aroma and taste to the product. Why? Without these infusions, Hamilton writes, processed orange juice would be "undrinkable".
posted by exhilaration (130 comments total) 29 users marked this as a favorite

 
I knew there was a reason I hate orange juice!
posted by sonic meat machine at 2:48 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


“Without these infusions, Hamilton writes, processed orange juice would be ‘undrinkable’.”

Well, then I’m relieved they do this.
posted by george_morgan at 2:49 PM on April 28, 2010 [29 favorites]


Once you've had fresh-squeezed, the chemical tang of orange juice by the carton is decidedly less appealing.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:49 PM on April 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


So all these coupons I have are essentially useless, is that what you're saying?
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 2:50 PM on April 28, 2010 [12 favorites]


does this apply to Simply Orange as well? i haven't noticed the chemical taste in theirs.
posted by radiosilents at 2:50 PM on April 28, 2010 [4 favorites]


I believe her. I can.not.stand most orange juices, they seem really quite undrinkable to me. A few brands have found their way into my fridge, but they are the kind that ferment and go bad faster than the milk. Or, I'll just squeeze my own. yum!

But really, that's depressing, what people think is their daily vitamin/good-for-me-boost is sugar laden processed junk.
posted by dabitch at 2:50 PM on April 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


OJ has too much sugar anyway. Just eat an orange instead.
posted by caddis at 2:52 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


My wife and I tried squeezing our own OJ a few years back but were unable to obtain results that didn't bring to mind that Troy McClure infomercial ("You got all that from one bag of oranges???").
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:54 PM on April 28, 2010 [20 favorites]


I've heard that a lot of orange juices contain 2-hydroxypropane-1,2,3-tricarboxylic acid and oxidane!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:54 PM on April 28, 2010 [13 favorites]


I hadn't realized that the mass-marketing of orange juice arose from keeping U.S. soldiers scurvy-free during World War II. That's kind of interesting, actually.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:55 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Ah, those oils.
posted by poe at 2:56 PM on April 28, 2010


I heard that astronauts drink their own urine. Except they run it though a magic machine that makes it taste better. Without that, it would undrinkable.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:56 PM on April 28, 2010 [13 favorites]


Do we really need two active threads for people to brag about how much better what they eat is than the stuff the proles can afford?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:57 PM on April 28, 2010 [24 favorites]


I guess it's time to plunk down some cash for a Juice Loosener.

(IT'S WHISPER QUIET!!)
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


But really, that's depressing, what people think is their daily vitamin/good-for-me-boost is sugar laden processed junk.

Did you read the article? There isn't anything in it that claims nutritional differences between fresh OJ and commercial OJ, and there isn't anything in there about adding sugar.
posted by ripley_ at 3:00 PM on April 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


As long as it's 50% pulp, I'm happy.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:04 PM on April 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


ripley, while the juice has a lot of sugar in it whether it's extracted and drunk fresh, processed, or left in the orange, a whole orange has a lot of other components (especially fiber) which aren't there in any kind of liquid juice.
posted by localroger at 3:05 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


This is why we need the Fruit Fucker 2000.

If volatile compounds are outlawed, only outlaws will be volatile.
posted by benzenedream at 3:10 PM on April 28, 2010 [7 favorites]


There are no "chemicals" in the orange juice. The author actually said that orange juice is natural and one of the healthiest, purest things you can drink. The flavor packs are all made from oranges and other citrus fruits (like grapefruits, tangerines, etc IIRC)

I saw another article about this book a while ago, this article seems to only focus on the negative, while the book overall is not negative, it's just talking about what goes on in the industry.
But really, that's depressing, what people think is their daily vitamin/good-for-me-boost is sugar laden processed junk.
There's going to be just as much sugar, fructose even, in your fresh squeezed orange juice as in stuff from a carton.
OJ has too much sugar anyway. Just eat an orange instead.
You know all the sugar in orange juice comes from oranges, right? Of course, you can probably drink orange juice more quickly then you can eat oranges, so you might get more sugar that way.
ripley, while the juice has a lot of sugar in it whether it's extracted and drunk fresh, processed, or left in the orange, a whole orange has a lot of other components (especially fiber) which aren't there in any kind of liquid juice.
Hmm, it seems like a lot of that stuff stays in the juice.
posted by delmoi at 3:13 PM on April 28, 2010 [7 favorites]


Winder Farms is the way forward.
posted by yoyoceramic at 3:13 PM on April 28, 2010


I really strongly prefer frozen concentrated orange juice to the stuff ion a carton, which I find has a weird greasy feel.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:15 PM on April 28, 2010


I've thought of moving to California for this reason -- and artichokes.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:16 PM on April 28, 2010


does this apply to Simply Orange as well? i haven't noticed the chemical taste in theirs.
All of these fake-fresh juices are made the same way, but I prefer Simply Orange too; whatever is the mix of flavours they put into it, I find it sweet and tasty and without bitterness.
posted by Flashman at 3:20 PM on April 28, 2010


You know all the sugar in orange juice comes from oranges, right? Of course, you can probably drink orange juice more quickly then you can eat oranges, so you might get more sugar that way.

The fiber slows sugar absorption, so you will get the same amount of sugar per serving it will be processed slower by eating the whole fruit instead of just the juice.
posted by wcfields at 3:21 PM on April 28, 2010 [8 favorites]


(it's almost Sunny Delight-like in its sweetness, and yes, I like that)
posted by Flashman at 3:21 PM on April 28, 2010


I don't drink a lot of orange juice, but once a year when the oranges show up on the tree in the yard. I bought a Fruit Fucker 2000 (not the link you expected). Yum. Orange juice in a carton is always too acidic for me. I suspect this has something to do with it.
posted by eyeballkid at 3:25 PM on April 28, 2010


1) Drink Apple Juice. OJ will kill you.
Hardy har har. It's so cheap but I love it.

2) Anecdotal, but I live in FL. Squeezed orange juice everywhere and it's delicious. Local clams, not so much. So, awhile back I was in MA and I had some clam chowder. It was so amazing I almost wept. I then had orange juice the next morning at a greasy spoon. I cried, it was so bad. Right there I celebrated our geographical specialties.
posted by cavalier at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2010 [27 favorites]


I'm not sure if I believe this, but I'll be sure to pass it along to everyone I know...

Because I just love juicy gossip.
posted by boo_radley at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2010 [8 favorites]


I'm totally confused by the last link. Why not link directly to the (year-old) story in Macleans rather than to a page that does nothing more than reproduce jpeg images of the story?
posted by Dasein at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


I haven't partaken of containerized OJ for years. I don't think that I ever really liked it. It always made me thirsty, no matter how much I drank. Fresh squeezed is the way to go. But I am lazy. And no doubt vitamin C deficient as well.

But I'm not thirsty!

More beer.
posted by Splunge at 3:27 PM on April 28, 2010


Heh, let's not get into that bastardized atrocity of the HFCS industry known as Sunny D.
posted by crapmatic at 3:30 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Count me among the "we need to eat fruits and veggies, not drink 'em" folks. I have these friends who look down their noses at me for having the occasional Pepsi as they chug-a-lug apricot nectar or that ultra-sweet Sobe crap by the gallon as if it's healthy or something.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:31 PM on April 28, 2010 [7 favorites]


I live in Canada but I must have an orange every day. (Just had mine half an hour ago.) It's perhaps the only food-based indulgence I get cranky about missing. I think it comes from living in Florida for 25 years... And even so, there's no comparison between "truck" oranges we get here and the ones that came so heavily and frequently from the tree in our backyard in Miramar that we, and the neighbours, simply couldn't keep up. The muscovy ducks would attend to the fallen ones within about 12 hours and there would be gently rotting hollow orange shells all over the yard. I would just mow them up.

And, yeah. The frozen concentrate in a can is the way to go. (On hot days just scoop it out with a spoon and eat it.) Stay away from that Minute Maid shit or anything by Dole, it's horrid. Tropicana is ... oookkkaayyyy but you have to drink the jug down in three days or it gets nasty, so only bother getting it as a treat.

And I'm with Pope Guilty here ... extra Pulp or GTFO.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:32 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


Screwdrivers with freshly-squeezed juice start off really good. After three or five, though, you can't really tell the difference between the good stuff and the reconstituted.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:34 PM on April 28, 2010 [4 favorites]


So what about apple juice?
posted by furtive at 3:36 PM on April 28, 2010


Oh yeah, special tip if you do get the Tropicana. Never ever shake the jug, even if you get the extra pulp. Gently turn it over a few times to mix, only. Shaking it is bad, like shaking a bottle of opened wine is bad -- it really speeds up the oxidation process.

This fun tip courtesy of ORANGE BOY.

Hey did you know if you take your fresh orange peels over to a candle and squeeze them into the flame, you get JETS OF FIRE? YEAH BOY. That's another thing you get from being raised in Florida. How to turn common household fruit into a flamethrower.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:37 PM on April 28, 2010 [9 favorites]


Splunge: “More beer.

I am beginning to think that beer is probably the most 'natural' thing that the average American consumes. They pasteurize it, but that's about all that I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure there's no rBGH or artificial flavor, even in Budweiser.

Of course, there's probably because there's no flavor, period.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:39 PM on April 28, 2010 [4 favorites]


There's a great John McPhee book, Oranges that likely will give you a more enjoyable read than this. It is, of course, out of date now, but he's a master of non-fiction.

I'm more of a fan of McPhee's books that aren't on geology - this one and Pine Barrens are very much worth a read.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


What's the story with orange juice, really? Think about it: it's marketed as a breakfasty beverage. But what else do people enjoy for breakfast? That's right, cereal. Cereal drowned in milk. And what happens when you introduce acidic orange juice to proteiny milk? The milk curdles is what, and it tastes vile. It's all part of the great Breakfast Conspiracy: you eat a big serving of shit first thing in the morning along with your newspaper - two big servings of shit, really - and no matter what happens you figure your day can't get much worse. And on top of all that, after the last dregs of OJ you go and brush your teeth, and that's just mouth-fuckery on a catastophic level. Wake up, people!
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:44 PM on April 28, 2010 [12 favorites]


I prefer my orange juice in the form of Orange Curacao and Cointreau. Fresh shaken, not squeezed.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:51 PM on April 28, 2010 [4 favorites]


you go and brush your teeth, and that's just mouth-fuckery on a catastophic level

Wait, what?
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:52 PM on April 28, 2010


> The fiber slows sugar absorption, so you will get the same amount of sugar per serving it will be processed slower by eating the whole fruit 6 entire oranges instead of just the juice

IIRC, it takes about 6 oranges to get 1 C of juice.
posted by Decimask at 3:54 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


No OJ in my house, we have margaritas instead of tequila sunrises.
posted by Cranberry at 3:59 PM on April 28, 2010


what happens when you introduce acidic orange juice to proteiny milk? The milk curdles is what, and it tastes vile.

Only if you gargle with them together. Maybe slow down as you eat breakfast. The milk gets curdled pretty quick in your gut anyway.
posted by GuyZero at 4:04 PM on April 28, 2010


Do we really need two active threads for people to brag about how much better what they eat is than the stuff the proles can afford?

Well, where I live pretty much every prole has access to an orange, lemon, tangerine, or grapefruit tree on every block. So I guess I'm just here to brag about how much better it is to be a prole in California, where all kinds of stuff just grows on trees!
posted by oneirodynia at 4:07 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


What's the story with orange liquer, really? Think about it: it's not marketed as a breakfasty beverage. But what else do people enjoy for breakfast? That's right, limes. Limes drowned in rum. And what happens when you introduce sweet orange liquers to acidic limes and dark, aged rum? Your day improves dramatically, and it tastes marvelous. It's all part of the Great Breakfast conspiracy: you drink a big serving of it first thing in the morning along with your web surfing - two big servings of it, usually - and no matter what happens you figure your day can't get much better. And on top of all that, after the last drops of Mai Tai you go and rinse your mouth with "mouth wash," and that's just a mint julep on a catastophic level. Go back to bed, people!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:17 PM on April 28, 2010 [41 favorites]


Got me one of these beauties. Works like a charm, easy to use and clean and looks good on the counter. A grapefruit and 2 or 3 oranges usually make enough juice for 2 glasses. Not giant modern glasses but normal glasses... the way they used to be when I was a kid.
Haven't bought any orange juice since.

Now I'm looking for a general juicer as well. The same company makes one of those but it has mixed reviews and apparent weaknesses so I'm probably going to opt for some other brand.

As far as the fiber goes... the citrus juicer I got can make quite pulpy juice and on top of that I'm putting most of the pulp from the filter grate back in. I'd be willing to bet that the way I make my juice I end up basically eating 80% of the fruits I use.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:18 PM on April 28, 2010


Only if you gargle with them together. Maybe slow down as you eat breakfast.

That might be okay for an unemployed graphic designers, which is to say all graphic designers, but Important Bankers haven't time to savour each dish separately, they must blend it all up into a smoothie and chug it whilst doing their early morning jog. On your way to "work", if you can call it that, take time to notice the large regularly-spaced splatterings of orangey vomit in gutters and against walls. That isn't from late night revellers, it's from early morning Important Bankers who must breakfast whilst working out. Vodka martini and oyster juices sweating out of their pores, Lexus keys jiggling in their socks, every single one of them listening to Michael Buble and devising ways to fuck your nest egg.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:19 PM on April 28, 2010 [26 favorites]


Bulgaroktonos: "Do we really need two active threads for people to brag about how much better what they eat is than the stuff the proles can afford?"
That is a function of the people and not of the threads themselves.

Pope Guilty: "you go and brush your teeth, and that's just mouth-fuckery on a catastophic level

Wait, what?
"

A fun experiment: Prepare a glass of OJ! Do not drink it! Go brush your teeth! Right Now! Do Not Rinse! Rinsing will lessen the results! Have you brushed your teeth? Drink the OJ! Swish it around your mouth! Describe the results.
posted by boo_radley at 4:20 PM on April 28, 2010 [7 favorites]


I'm with seanmpukket -- I'm Canadian, and I need to eat an orange every day. Orange juice doesn't cut it; too many calories for not enough food.

That said, I'm sure that if I lived somewhere like Florida, where oranges just drop off the trees, I'd turn into a big Orangina-coloured blob in a week.
posted by jrochest at 4:21 PM on April 28, 2010


When I first moved down to Florida, I lived for a spell with my newly retired parents who were reveling in the novelty of mountains of cheap, fresh oranges. So much so that my dad insisted (yes, insisted!) that he make me a nice giant glass of freshly squeezed orange juice every morning.

Nectar, I tell you.

My dad is awesome.
posted by contessa at 4:21 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


A fun experiment: Prepare a glass of OJ! Do not drink it! Go brush your teeth! Right Now! Do Not Rinse! Rinsing will lessen the results! Have you brushed your teeth? Drink the OJ! Swish it around your mouth! Describe the results.

In the first apartment I had after moving out of my mom's place, wherein I lived with half a dozen stoners, we used to torture each other with the occasional Orange Juice and Toothpaste Crackers Tournament of Death. I am gagging a little just thinking about it.
posted by elizardbits at 4:23 PM on April 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


Pretty much all commercial fruit juice is nutritionally equivalent to drinking a coke. Or pure sugar water. Maybe with a vitamin dissolved in it.
posted by Nelson at 4:27 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


Biotene makes this weird toothpaste that is OJ-compatible and actually improves the flavor of brutally cheap coffee. Something something enzymes mutter mutter. Major quality of life improvement, I tell you what.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:30 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


So I accidentally bought "Trop 50" a few months ago, it's an "orange juice beverage" with 50% less sugar/calories than orange juice, and after Tropicana's redesign fiasco from last year, my Tropicana branding radar was all out of whack.

Anyway, for gods sake, don't make the same mistake i did, Trop 50 is insidiously nasty garbage in liquid form. It uses Stevia, hence the claim that it uses no artificial sweeteners. Whatever. Stevia flavored oj has a nasty aftertaste and after I discovered the foul play I was faced with a dilemma. Not being the wasteful sort, I didn't want to toss it, but the thought of subjecting my taste buds to this crap was unpleasant.

So there it languished, moving slowly to the back of the fridge day by day. The only way I got rid of it was be re-enacting an old SNL skit w/Tom Hanks and giving some to my friends: "Hey this Trop 50 really, really tastes terrible, you have to try it."

I have actually stopped buying all Tropicana OJ since then so there will never be another incident like this.
posted by jeremias at 4:32 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


> Important Bankers haven't time to savour each dish separately

Put the eggs on top.
posted by jfuller at 4:41 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's not just toothpaste and OJ that are problems. Mint and citric acid clash together in all their forms.
posted by sourwookie at 4:41 PM on April 28, 2010


Tell that to a mojito.
posted by box at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2010 [9 favorites]


Tell that to a mojito.

I've tried talking to alcoholic beverages, but they're not really the entertaining conversationalists you'd expect. In fact, my drinks have always seemed a bit stiff to me.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:03 PM on April 28, 2010 [24 favorites]


"Hey did you know if you take your fresh orange peels over to a candle and squeeze them into the flame, you get JETS OF FIRE? "

My people call it "burnt orange," but either way it is the perfect garnish a negroni.

Back on topic ... I'm also relieved to read this article. I never thought that those cartons of fresh orange juice tasted right, and yet it almost seemed un-American to not like orange juice.
posted by kanewai at 5:09 PM on April 28, 2010


>Biotene makes this weird toothpaste that is OJ-compatible

Most big-brand toothpaste has sodium lauryl sulfate as an ingredient, which is basically dishwasher detergent for your teeth; both the positive and negative aspects of scrubbing your mouth with that should be pretty obvious. Biotene doesn't contain SLS, and thank god for that because I do enjoy a big glass of orange juice during breakfast.
posted by xbonesgt at 5:12 PM on April 28, 2010


This post made me go to the store and buy a bag of oranges and juice them. So, uh, thank you.
posted by sineala at 5:13 PM on April 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


Mint and citric acid clash together in all their forms.

Incorrect. Limoncello straight from the freezer poured into a glass with mint leaves.

QED.
posted by generichuman at 5:14 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Now I want me some flavor pack so I can drink it straight.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:15 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


When attending high school in Tampa, I had a boyfriend who was a freshman at a college located about an hour and a half away, in Lake Wales.

Somewhere along Route 27 South is an orange juice factory that smelled like vomit injected into an orange rind and boiled.

Flying back home in a Buick Century at 1:45 am, just sweating the groundation that follows breaking curfew, Bad Religion on tape, cute boy thoughts in my head, awesome-- WHAT IS THAT SMELL OH JESUS ITS LIKE TIN FOIL AND DEATH--

I to this day can't drink OJ.
posted by functionequalsform at 5:18 PM on April 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


Limoncello straight from the freezer poured into a glass with mint leaves.

QED.


You should have left it as an exercise for the reader.

Does anyone remember Donald Duck orange juice?
posted by infinitewindow at 5:20 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's still out there. Always seemed a bit gamey to me.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:22 PM on April 28, 2010 [8 favorites]


Decimask: IIRC, it takes about 6 oranges to get 1 C of juice.

Maybe eating six oranges worth of sugar without getting any of the fiber isn't such a good idea.
posted by localroger at 5:23 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


When I was a kid, I loved orange juice (at my grandparents' house) because we got to use the squeezer machine.

The orange juice itself I could do without.
posted by DU at 5:30 PM on April 28, 2010


It still mixes well with vodka.
posted by jonmc at 5:40 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mint and citric acid clash together in all their forms.

No...Nope. It's pretty natural, actually.
posted by limeonaire at 5:41 PM on April 28, 2010


One of the things I miss most about vising the condo in Florida is the oh-so-excellent orange juice. It's available right there, in the grocery store! Not to mention all the roadside stands.

I mean, sure, living in the northwest has its perks, but what I wouldn't give for someone to breed an orange tree that would thrive up here[1].

[1] Not one of those silly miniature ones either, but a real honest-to-goodness tree.
posted by madajb at 5:44 PM on April 28, 2010


Somewhere along Route 27 South is an orange juice factory that smelled like vomit injected into an orange rind and boiled.

Ha! I've been past that plant a hundred times over the years. I always kind of liked the smell, honestly. Takes all kinds, I guess. :)
posted by The Mysterious Mr. F at 5:47 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Does anyone remember Donald Duck orange juice?

Do they not make that anymore? It was made by the Florida's Natural people.
posted by madajb at 5:48 PM on April 28, 2010


If I had OJ in my house I'd keep him away from the knives.
posted by ooga_booga at 5:48 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


I like to joke that as a Floridian, I have amazing powers over citrus. (Seriously, the first time I absent mindedly peeled an orange so that the peel all came off in one piece, there was staring from my co-workers.)

You don't realize how strange Florida is until you leave, of course. It seems strange that there's an entire world out there, a world in which people don't know that oranges have different types -- can you imagine, some people think there are only two kinds of oranges? Those with seeds and those without? Some people have never even tasted a honeybell orange, have never slipped that loose thin skin off that fragile, delicate flesh, so gently, knowing that a single rough move will result in a flood of sweet, fragrant juice.

I found that out the first time we left the state and stayed at a hotel with a 'complimentary continental breakfast'. There was a machine -- you put the cup in, and it would fill it with some thin, vile, sour orange colored liquid.

I drink mostly water now, since I no longer live in Florida. Sadly, I can't afford the expensive stuff, and I can't bring myself to drink the cheap stuff.

I have nothing but compassion for those from colder climes, who grew up thinking they knew what 'orange juice' tasted like.

(On the plus side, I am a lot thinner now that I can't buy very excellent orange juice for $2 a gallon at the supermarket.)
posted by Comrade_robot at 5:51 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


turgid dahlia: ... you go and brush your teeth, and that's just mouth-fuckery on a catastophic level.

Um...exactly what kind of tube is dispensing your "toothpaste"??

Not that there's anything wrong with that
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:10 PM on April 28, 2010 [4 favorites]


I have nothing but compassion for those from colder climes, who grew up thinking they knew what 'orange juice' tasted like.

Why are you the one with "compassion"? They are still enjoying their orange juice every morning -- happily oblivious to pleasures unimagined -- while you are so ruined you now have to drink water with your eggs and bacon. Like an animal. They should be the ones feeling sorry for you.
posted by dgaicun at 6:28 PM on April 28, 2010 [12 favorites]


Um...duh. Have you tasted the difference between fresh squeezed and the carton stuff? It's also why the fresh squeezed stuff is $3/glass while the carton is $3/carton.
posted by treeshar at 6:43 PM on April 28, 2010


I'm down with avoiding the scurvy, but when did it become popular to consume vats of this stuff in the morning? I have some of my great-grandmother's old "juice" glasses - I believe they hold about 4 oz. This is as much juice of any kind as I ever consume in one meal, unless there's booze involved.

I've become wary of most processed juice lately anyway, and any other beverage containing large amounts of manufactured citric acid which is wreaking havoc on my daughter's teeth. I push fresh fruit with almost every meal and try to stick to filtered water for a beverage as often as possible. Orange juice is absurdly expensive and to find out that it's one notch up from glorified swill helps me wipe it pretty much permanently off the grocery list. Unless there's booze involved.
posted by PuppyCat at 6:44 PM on April 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


Yeah well I don't care what they do to your Yankee orange juice, the glorious perfume of orange blossoms for those fleeting two or three weeks a year almost semi-kinda makes it worth living in Florida. Sometimes.
posted by contessa at 7:15 PM on April 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Maybe eating six oranges worth of sugar without getting any of the fiber isn't such a good idea.

That's why I always put my orange juice in a blender with a dry cleaning bag and puree for 20 minutes.

Seriously, if fiber is the reason why dietary choice A is better than B, is it OK if I just promise to run down to the shop and make something out of maple, then eat the sawdust. (I do more stuff in Oak but it's kind of bitter.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:17 PM on April 28, 2010


A fun experiment...

That's not my idea of fun.
posted by Mister_A at 7:18 PM on April 28, 2010


OJ has too much sugar anyway. Just eat an orange instead.

Oranges are hard to peel and they don't have the calcium my calcium-added OJ does. Before you suggest I drink milk: I don't like milk, and at that point I'm having two things where I could have had one thing instead.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 7:28 PM on April 28, 2010


I thought the orange juice-toothpaste mouth-fuckery was because the menthol from the toothpaste turns off (overloads) all the tastebuds except the ones that recognize bitter?

Anecdotal, but I live in FL. Squeezed orange juice everywhere and it's delicious. Local clams, not so much. So, awhile back I was in MA and I had some clam chowder. It was so amazing I almost wept.

Dude you are not meeting the right clammers. Go to Cedar Key and talk to the guys in the funny white wellies and they will hook you up with some tender little fellers who just came off the sea floor of the unreasonably clean Suwannee Sound, like, today.
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:32 PM on April 28, 2010


btw the loquats are ripening now in Gainesville. MMM-MM!
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:33 PM on April 28, 2010


That said, I'm sure that if I lived somewhere like Florida, where oranges just drop off the trees, I'd turn into a big Orangina-coloured blob in a week.

I think you'd just be an oringina-colonist.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 7:36 PM on April 28, 2010


Bought a cheap bag of oranges the other day at the supermarket. They had very little flavor at all, though they looked good. Thought I might be getting the late season overripe stuff, but this was pretty bad. We can get organic oranges which are sometimes very good, but they're hit and miss and the good ones are only briefly available. We have agriculture here, but the growing season is short so no citrus, and we're too small to get a lot of variety. Sometimes I really miss California, but fresh produce doesn't make up for the crappy economy. But if you guys legalize it I'm moving back.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:54 PM on April 28, 2010


Oranges are hard to peel and they don't have the calcium my calcium-added OJ does.

Yes, but they get the calcium from the bones of orphans and kittens.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:57 PM on April 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


Me, I like three Pixie sticks in the morning. Two at the same time, preferably different flavors (purple is always a good base, watch out for green) then chase them with the third: it's like a sucrose digestif. You have to tip your head back while pouring it down your throat so that it absorbs all the moisture in your mouth. Good stuff.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:01 PM on April 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


Um...exactly what kind of tube is dispensing your "toothpaste"??

Yeah I see what you're trying to get at and *glomph mumph mumph hmmph* appreciate it, thank you very much.
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:32 PM on April 28, 2010


There's a great John McPhee book, Oranges that likely will give you a more enjoyable read...

This was one of the first McPhee books I read and I've gone on to read all but one of his nearly 30 books. I recall at the time saying to myself "Good grief, I'm reading a books about ORANGES and I can't put it down."
posted by neuron at 9:41 PM on April 28, 2010


I love this thread. Donald Duck OJ? Oh yeah, the sourest, bitterest, most awful OJ to break my little kid heart. "But it has a cartoon on it!" Steel cans + OJ DO NOT MIX.
posted by mrstrotsky at 9:41 PM on April 28, 2010


In the book 'Wild Fermentation,' which details how to make a hundred or so different fermentables from cultures all around the world, Sandor Katz includes a recipe for 'hooch,' or prison wine... The primary fermentable is Donald Duck OJ, kept in a 50-gallon trash bag used as the fermentation chamber.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:31 PM on April 28, 2010


I'm Norwegian (which is like being Canadian, only in Europe.) Last summer we went to the south France/north of Spain and ate melons until we burst. This experience forever ruined "truck melons" for me. I'm hesistant to do the same to oranges, as I freakin love oranges and don't want "truck oranges" ruined forever, as that all I've got up here in the frigid north...
posted by Harald74 at 12:53 AM on April 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


Yep, ripley_, I had fun opening the massive images to the McLean article (thanks for that easier link Dasein). That orange juice has (fructose) sugars is obvious to most people, since it's made from fruit, and orange juice has so much of it it's the go-to home remedy for people suffering from insulin shock. There are brands that actually add sugar to their juices as well (think Sunny D or similar "pretend" juices), but if you re-read my comment you'll see that I don't say this is the case: I'm just saying orange juice is processed and full of sugar contrary to what people believe it to be.

Orange juice in the morning needs to be drunk before brushing teeth. *shudder* Heh, that's probably why I still don't like orange juice, I could never get the routine right.
posted by dabitch at 1:11 AM on April 29, 2010


Harald74 - don't go to Italy and drink their heavenly fresh blood orange juice. I'm spoiled forever.
posted by dabitch at 1:13 AM on April 29, 2010


I grew up drinking nothing but freshly squeezed orange juice. That is because we basically got it for free.

My dad is a gardener. His job consisted of visiting a series of houses in the Rancho Santa Fe district of San Diego and tending their gardens. Many of these houses sit on huge amounts of land, complete with large gardens, swimming pools and even private orchards. Occasionally they would sell off the fruit in the orchards to local markets but more often that not, fruit was just falling on the ground and rotting.

My dad would happily pluck all the apples and oranges and pears and avocados he could squeeze into his truck and bring them home. So we always had these enormous baskets of fresh fruit sitting around the house. Ugly, mottled fruit that was nevertheless more delicious than anything I've ever gotten from a grocery store.

Here in London, we still buy and squeeze oranges mainly because I find it hard to conceive of Orange juice as something you buy. Now we pay for the oranges -regular juice or blood oranges - of course, getting them at local markets or from Abel & Cole.
posted by vacapinta at 2:38 AM on April 29, 2010 [3 favorites]


I don't know if they still have it, but in the central "meeting area" in Marrakech (the Djemaa el Fna [maps]) would have dozens of orange stands set up in the morning. They literally wrapped around the outer rim of the square, each one had damned-near identical fruit stands with integrated squeezer and umbrella (which you need to protect you from the sun, which is fucking brutal in August).

Each one had a number, that's how you remembered which one to go to the next day (if you liked your service, otherwise you could just pick a different stand). The guys running them would try various ways to entice you to pick them over the guy next door—"oh, my oranges are fresher!" but really the only thing different was the guy. You could get a full glass of freshly squeezed oranges for what ended up coming to less than a dime.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:07 AM on April 29, 2010


Why are you the one with "compassion"? They are still enjoying their orange juice every morning -- happily oblivious to pleasures unimagined -- while you are so ruined you now have to drink water with your eggs and bacon. Like an animal. They should be the ones feeling sorry for you.t

I see we are of the "better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven" camp.
posted by Comrade_robot at 4:09 AM on April 29, 2010


I actually prefer the chemical tang to the natural tang, but there you go.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:39 AM on April 29, 2010


Just buy some oranges, and squeeze them!

Store bought orange juice is 'orrible!
posted by Joe Chip at 4:55 AM on April 29, 2010


Anyway, for gods sake, don't make the same mistake i did, Trop 50 is insidiously nasty garbage in liquid form.

This is the most true statement in this thread. Watch your Tropicana labels if you're ever buying supermarket OJ. If I could have found some way to pawn it off on somebody else I would have, but I suffered through the entire awful carton myself.

Incidentally, I did actually pawn off some Bud Light Chelada (Now with Fresh Clamato!) on my softball team, after having an error in judgment in a supermarket one day. I totally though "How bad could it be?" The answer was bad enough that it's now an initiation for our softball team...
posted by This Guy at 5:12 AM on April 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


This guy: that's hilarious. Do the hold their nose and have to drink it in one go? :)
posted by dabitch at 5:41 AM on April 29, 2010


It's funny. Pasteurization is so obvious when thinking about apple ciders, and from my experience everyone seems to be aware of the fact that pasteurization makes an inferior product - they don't fool themselves into expecting otherwise.
posted by tybeet at 5:55 AM on April 29, 2010


Do we really need two active threads for people to brag about how much better what they eat is than the stuff the proles can afford?

What proles? I never developed the habit of buying even the "cheap" juice because it always costs between $1.99 and $2.99 - too much from the food budget for something offering so much less in the way of nutrition than whole fresh fruit or even some chopped red pepper on a salad later in the day. Juice does have a healthy image, but its role in the diet should really be very small. It IS processed food, by definition, and it hyperconcentrates sugars and calories while removing water and fiber. If you have a small grocery budget, fruit juice is not a good place to spend your money. The frozen concentrate is always a little cheaper, but nutritionally juice still belongs in the indulgence category.

When I was teaching school it bugged me to see parents letting their kids suck on juice all day because it was "healthy." Not to mention that a lot of people had trouble reading through the marketing of juice products to understand which were basically made from fruit juice, which were made from fruit flavoring and sugar water, and which were one kind of juice masqeurading as another (common with cranberry cocktails, etc.)
posted by Miko at 6:29 AM on April 29, 2010 [3 favorites]


I am beginning to think that beer is probably the most 'natural' thing that the average American consumes.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

What's the story with orange juice, really? Think about it: it's marketed as a breakfasty beverage. But what else do people enjoy for breakfast?

Hmmm. *idea forms*
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:51 AM on April 29, 2010


Well, up until just after the American Revolution most people drank small beer or alcoholic cider with breakfast.
posted by Miko at 7:08 AM on April 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


This guy: that's hilarious. Do the hold their nose and have to drink it in one go? :)

It's really up to them. They come in 16 or 24 oz cans, which is...too much, so normally we share it around after a win or something. The captain dislikes it so much that she made the made all the new softball players this season finish one. We have a video of her "drinking" one, which is essentially her pouring it over her tongue as it sticks out of her mouth. And basically squeeling the whole time.
posted by This Guy at 7:16 AM on April 29, 2010


“As long as it's 50% pulp, I'm happy.”
I drink Mickey Spillane brand orange juice, it’s mostly pulp.

Gotta 2nd the citrus press.

I like orange juice for the potassium (for lactic acid, et. al. Some people drink chocolate milk.) Some protein, salt, little ice or something. If I don’t train I usually cut down though. If you’re not doing anything, you’re probably not going to need the sugar.
This 'natural' thing though - what the hell is 'natural'? Most of our food is pre-chewed.

I've been reading a bunch on healthy supplements for pre and post workouts, it's mostly common sense, the only thing that struck me as glaring was that the Gatorade people really really really hate orange juice and other beverages or acknowledging that any simple feebs can replicate gatorade's effects. (Bananas and blueberries in a smoothie? What are you crazy!?)
posted by Smedleyman at 7:59 AM on April 29, 2010


Does FCOJ not have these so-called 'flavor packs'? I've always liked it better anyhow.

I never got what was so terrible about frozen juice anyhow.
posted by yohko at 8:14 AM on April 29, 2010


As another Canadian, whose mother liked to eat local and seasonal before it was cool, I never had many oranges. There was a brief month or so in the late winter when we'd get them but they really didn't compare to MacIntosh Apples (that's right! I am pro-apples!). Especially those oranges that had been frozen or something and were all grainy and weird.

Anyway, we also didn't drink not-from-concentrate orange juice because it was super expensive. We did drink a lot of frozen concentrated oj. However, now that I've moved to the US it seems like the 'fresh' stuff is cheaper and the frozen stuff is twice the price of at home. It's like $1.80 a tube while at home you could get it frequently for less than $1.00 (that was my mom's cut off for frozen juice). So what's the deal? Are the different forms of orange juice subsidized differently in Canada and the US? Or is it just a function of provincial/state differences?
posted by hydrobatidae at 8:50 AM on April 29, 2010


You know all the sugar in orange juice comes from oranges, right? Of course, you can probably drink orange juice more quickly then you can eat oranges, so you might get more sugar that way.

No "might" about it. Juice is the worst. One of the first things most nutritionists will tell a regular adult is to quit drinking juice, especially if you're trying to watch what you eat. If you LOVE it you can have it as a treat like you would eat dessert. With juice, you're just drinking in calories - your mouth can't even taste them as fast as they're coming in!

If you compare say, eating a small orange to a small glass of juice:

1 Small Orange (2-3/8" dia)
Calories 45
Fiber 2.3g
Sugar 2.9g
-----------------
Tropicana Pure Premium, no pulp (8 fl oz)
Calories 110
Fiber 0g
Sugar 22g

You can see there's a big difference. Even if you eat a large orange, the fruit is still going to be better:

1 Large Orange (3-1/16" dia)
Calories 86
Fiber 4.4g
Sugars 17.2g

The main problem with juice is that people believe in the magical added benefit of "nutrition", when calorie-wise there's not much difference than having a glass of Coke:

Tropicana Pure Premium, no pulp (8 fl oz)
Calories 110
Fiber 0g
Sugar 22g
-----------------
Coca Cola (8oz )
Calories 97
Fiber 0
Sugar 26g

Then you get into portion sizes. NO ONE drinks 8oz of ANYTHING. Ever. Certainly not if you're thirsty from eating 10x the amount of sodium your body needs (as many, many people do).

So we take the "small" sizes from restaurants as a jumping off point, and look at how things start to slide:

Small McDonald's Orange Juice (~10oz)
Calories 150
Fiber 0g
Sugar 32g

And what if you're thirsty and get a large?

Large McDonalds OJ (~20oz)
Calories 280
Fiber 0g
Sugar 57g

So if you go to a diner that serves you a whole carafe of juice and 16oz tumblers, or you're at home pouring freely, you're going to be going crazy overboard on the sugar side.

Oh but hey - you drink fresh squeezed, right? Because you're not some schlub drinking out of the carton?

Jamba Juice Fresh Squeezed Orange - Regular Size (26oz )
Calories 330
Fiber 1g
Sugars 76

For that much sugar, you could eat ~60 gummi bears (127.6g)! Or eight cups of diced watermelon.

The best tactic I've ever heard of is to slice up an orange, arrange it nicely on a plate, then drink a glass of water before and during. More flavor, more fiber, more refreshing, waayyyy less sugar. And tastier.
posted by SassHat at 10:46 AM on April 29, 2010 [9 favorites]


You know, it is funny reading all the comments from people who grew up with access to fresh citrus. I grew up with access to fresh apples and I just don't consider the apples from the grocery store to be the same fruit as the ones that are from an orchard. Same thing with cider. If it has preservatives or been pasteurized, it just isn't cider to me.

What else is out there that I'm getting from the grocery store that locals think are inedible?

I know strawberries, peas, basil, peaches, raspberries, wild blueberries, ...
posted by sciencegeek at 11:16 AM on April 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Meh. people are such picky pricks. If it's frozen highbush blueberries versus not having them I'll take frozen every day. Sure they're not as good as the wild ones you buy by the quart, warm in the sun at a roadside stand in northern ontario, but what the heck. THEY'RE BLUEBERRIES.

Similarly, yes the oranges from my yard are better but meh, even frozen OJ beats having a glass of water with your waffles.

Being a pretentious dick is not one of the main principles of the "eat local" movement.
posted by GuyZero at 11:33 AM on April 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Kadin2048: I am beginning to think that beer is probably the most 'natural' thing that the average American consumes. They pasteurize it, but that's about all that I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure there's no rBGH or artificial flavor, even in Budweiser.

Well aren't you in for a surprise? Apparently Budweiser is okay (as far as we can tell), but one of it's major competitors, Miller, uses a great deal of manufactured chemical additives. Animal products such as isinglass, albumin, gelatin and bone char are also common ingredients used in beer as fining, clarifying, and foaming agents among other things.

"...you may be interested to know that Miller Lite contains propylene glycol alginate, water, barley malt, corn syrup, chemically modified hop extracts, yeast, amyloglucosidase, carbon dioxide, papain enzyme, liquid sugar, potassium metabisulfite, and Emka-malt, whatever that is."
posted by Demogorgon at 11:36 AM on April 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


Actually, I would consider albumin (egg white), isinglass (fish swim bladder), bone char (actual charred bones) and gelatin (from bones) to be the epitome of natural. I know that if you make stock, you use animal products to clarify it so I am not surprised that beer is similar.

Of your other ingredients propylene glycol alginate is from kelp, and papain enzyme is from papaya. The questionable stuff looks like amyloglucosidase (part of HFCS), potassium metabisulfite, and Emka-malt (adds colour).

So for a mass produced product I'm actually impressed at how natural Miller beers are.
posted by hydrobatidae at 11:57 AM on April 29, 2010


Small McDonald's Orange Juice (~10oz)
This is not a small juice. Diners used to have proper size juice glasses 40 years ago, but since then the American appetite for mega-jumbo everything has made us all crazy. I drink a 3oz glass of orange juice every morning, and it's just right.
posted by bitslayer at 12:14 PM on April 29, 2010


A three ounce glass? I dunno--I think I'd feel weird having a shot of orange juice every morning.
posted by box at 12:22 PM on April 29, 2010


I think I'd feel weird having a shot of orange juice every morning.

I'd feel weird having more than a shot of orange juice - it's so sweet, and also so acidic, that I only want that little dash to top off my breakfast. I don't know how many ounces I drink, but if I pour more than the right amount (I use a regular glass, just don't fill it very far) then I can't finish it.
posted by mdn at 12:49 PM on April 29, 2010


Don't get me wrong, I have no problems eating grocery store apples, they're just not the same.
posted by sciencegeek at 1:05 PM on April 29, 2010


The main problem with juice is that people believe in the magical added benefit of "nutrition", when calorie-wise there's not much difference than having a glass of Coke

Why do you put nutrition in scare quotes and why shouldn't people believe in the benefit of it from oranges over coke?
posted by Catfry at 2:01 PM on April 29, 2010


Because it's cool to hate on food. Poor people can't afford OJ, middle-class people feel they must drink it every morning but COOL PEOPLE are detached and dismissive about oranges. They're, like, for your dad and squares, man.
posted by GuyZero at 2:03 PM on April 29, 2010


Not to be too too detached and dismissive but --

Hate OJ unless fresh squeezed (short glass, pulpy, cold). Have felt that way from toddler days.

Favorite AM snack: one small organic orange (as local as possible) and 5 almonds. Yum.

Also, my only two special skills are my ability to make bows and to strip my orange as one unbroken strip of peel. Most satisfying.

That is all.
posted by bearwife at 2:15 PM on April 29, 2010


Why do you put nutrition in scare quotes and why shouldn't people believe in the benefit of it from oranges over coke?

The analysis wasn't for oranges over Coke, it was for orange juice over Coke. The point was there is very little additional nutrition in orange juice. It's a perfectly good point. I read the "nutrition" as quoting people who say they choose orange juice for nutritional purposes. If one is motivated solely by nutrition, it's not a great choice.
posted by Miko at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2010


The main problem with juice is that people believe in the magical added benefit of "nutrition", when calorie-wise there's not much difference than having a glass of Coke

There's generally more calories per ounce in OJ compared to Coke.

However, 16oz. of orange juice has 340% of your Vitamin C RDA, 4 grams of fiber, and 2 grams of protein, in 200 calories.

16 oz. of Coca-Cola has 186 calories and zero nutritional value.

I'm with you that most juice has little nutritional benefit. But comparing it to Coke? C'mon.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:07 AM on April 30, 2010


If one is motivated solely by nutrition, it's not a great choice.

I guess it depends how much you care about Vitamin C.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:08 AM on April 30, 2010


Anyway, for gods sake, don't make the same mistake i did, Trop 50 is insidiously nasty garbage in liquid form. It uses Stevia, hence the claim that it uses no artificial sweeteners. Whatever. Stevia flavored oj has a nasty aftertaste and after I discovered the foul play I was faced with a dilemma. Not being the wasteful sort, I didn't want to toss it, but the thought of subjecting my taste buds to this crap was unpleasant.

Oh yes. The kiddos I nanny for drink Trop 50 because it has "less sugar." I tried it and nearly died of horror. Yet, they love it. Especially the 2 year old. That stuff is like heroin. He downs a cup of it and shrieks for more and will continue to do so until he's cut off, at which point he throws a fit. I don't know which tastebuds this appeals to as I've certainly lost them by now, but good Lord does he ever love that crap.

When I was teaching school it bugged me to see parents letting their kids suck on juice all day because it was "healthy."

If my experience nannying is any indication, the pendulum is swinging the other way. Juice is EVIL and AWFUL and BAD and FULL OF SUGAR. And yet, some kids won't drink milk so the calcium fortified OJ is both the Great Satan and the only recourse to get something of some vague nutritional value into the fussy pants child. Really, kids' beverages are limited to milk, juice, and water. (This is of course in a universe where you're not letting your kids drink soda, Kool Aid, or beer.) Most kids won't drink plain water - or at least, not in vast quantities. You can water down the juice - but it's not going to be doing the kid any favors to be ONLY drinking milk. When I serve juice to kids, I serve it diluted by at least 25%. They don't know the difference and it at least cuts down *some* of the sugar content.

When given the choice, I do go for stuff like Apple & Eve and Juicy Juice that market themselves as "100% juice" and I do read labels and avoid things that are "cranberry juice cocktail" and such. It's imperfect, but juice at least has Vitamin C and sometimes calcium, which is more than I can say for Kool Aid - even if the sugar content is similar.

Also, say what you will about "nutrition," if I'm given the choice of giving a 6yr old orange juice or Coca Cola, I'm going with the one that at least doesn't contain caffeine!
posted by grapefruitmoon at 6:36 AM on April 30, 2010


I guess it depends how much you care about Vitamin C.

I don't think so. Orange juice isn't the best source of Vitamin C. Red peppers have a lot more Vitamin C, gram for gram, than whole oranges or orange juice. That was my point.

I'm not recommending that people drink Coke for nutrition. But I'm also not recommending that people drink OJ for nutrition. Eat an orange for some Vitamin C adn fiber. Drink juice as a treat that has a few side benefits. Drink Coke as a total indulgence with no real benefits
posted by Miko at 1:43 PM on April 30, 2010


If the point is that American food is being has been taken over by Big AgriBusiness, that's an important piece of reality that most people don't care about. OJ is yummy, pulp is nasty, alternet is not unbiased, and corporations are running the US. Any other news?
posted by theora55 at 10:16 AM on May 3, 2010


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