Italian Police raids Italian Indymedia.org and Genoa Social Forum

July 22, 2001 9:20 AM

Italian Police raids Italian Indymedia.org and Genoa Social Forum More information and/or pictures can be found at these links: MSNBC CNN Il Nuovo Corriere della Sera

According to protesters radio, the Genoa Social Forum is going to release a video that shows police infiltration in rioters and more police abuse pics.

I believe there that must be no space for violence, unless one is subject to violence against his will. That's why I believe that policeman had the right to attack protesters to defend themselves and to defend peaceful protesters. But I think that's it's very difficult to understand what really happened in this situation.

Apparently one indymedia reporter from UK is now in coma after being beaten from police, and more then 50 protesters were seriously harmed. The police were looking for unsual weapons like maces and usual weapons like knifes. Police also accused Genoa Social Forum of being a "cover" for the violent protesters.

What do you think about fitting a mini-recorder in every policeman armor ? I think police activity needs to be recorded because they're the only ones authorized to use violence when necessary but they can also abuse this power easily when no camera is around.

Remember the police chases scenes you can see on tv ? They're usually made from TV helicopters. I've seen more then one chase ending with police professionally stopping the chased offender, without doing them any harm, even if pointing a gun at them. While sometimes I've seen police beating people senseless without any good reason ; and giving a punch to a policeman, while completely wrong, isn't an action that deservers over-reaction when 3-4 cops kick the hell out of the offender.

Waiting for your ideas and comments...
posted by elpapacito (26 comments total)

Shorter post would have been nice.

Many cops in the USA have cameras in their cars, for theirs and our protection.
posted by owillis at 9:23 AM on July 22, 2001

Waiting for your ideas and comments...

How's this for an idea: that people will post succinct, brief posts on the MeFi front page. Just an idea, mind you...

Back to the topic at hand...I do think having recording devices for all law-enforcement officers would be, on balance, a good thing.
posted by davidmsc at 9:24 AM on July 22, 2001

the recorders might help with the "what you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" (assuming that's actually said, and not just on TV) because it would be more likely that we'd know what was actually said...
posted by raedyn at 9:31 AM on July 22, 2001

elpapacito, since this is your first post, I thought I'd offer some constructive criticism. It might be best to keep the front page post pared down to your thesis, and add your additional insight to the post on a "more inside" first comment. Long first page posts with oodles of carriage returns will raise some ire. Welcome to MeFi...
posted by machaus at 10:08 AM on July 22, 2001

A BBC reporter was in the Indymedia centre when it was raided, and described how computers were smashed up, disks confiscated, and reporters beaten. And the rumours of infiltration have been rife all week: British protesters identified not just uniformed officers on surveillance, but also plain-clothes police on rabble-rousing duty; other nationalities have said similar things.
posted by holgate at 10:10 AM on July 22, 2001

Yep sorry I screwed my post :) WIll try not to do that again.
posted by elpapacito at 10:18 AM on July 22, 2001

they checked for guns and left. who picked Genoa for this meeting?
posted by clavdivs at 10:19 AM on July 22, 2001

i guess checking for guns inside computers in S>O>P.
posted by clavdivs at 10:20 AM on July 22, 2001

plain-clothes police on rabble-rousing duty

holgate: inciting protestors to vandalism and/or violence? whipping up a mob?
posted by rebeccablood at 10:38 AM on July 22, 2001

Rebecca: To what end?
posted by gd779 at 10:54 AM on July 22, 2001

in order to have an excuse for arresting them, I suppose. I'm trying to determine what, exactly, holgate is referring to.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:55 AM on July 22, 2001

I think recording devices on cops in general should be mandatory, as it protects the rights of both well-meaning cops and civilians. I find it unlikely this will happen, however, for two reasons :
One, the scarier your cops are, the more control you retain over the populace.
Two, the less freedom you allow cops, the harder it will be to get new cops into the job.
posted by dong_resin at 11:05 AM on July 22, 2001

holgate: inciting protestors to vandalism and/or violence? whipping up a mob?

Rumours of that, yes. (The reports of the raid on italy.indymedia.org are pretty frightening.)

From another report (again, uncorroborated, so I'm chasing up sources):

Bove's account of international police and agents provocateurs concurs with my own experience: I have seen police in British bobby-hats in Genoa. Another indymedia activist also recognized foreign police whom she had seen abroad, dressed in plainclothes. This same indymedia activist has definitely recognized undercover police within the crowd today, July 21, near Piazza de Kennedy at 2 pm during the mass march. They were wearing black clothes, one had a mask, and the other had a helmet. She saw one of these two fire a gas cannister directly into the middle of the crowd from a short-range, hand-held pistol. There was a report yesterday as well of someone in black firing gas from within the march.
posted by holgate at 11:14 AM on July 22, 2001

Let's see, shooting protesters, destroying independent media outlets, and now [allegedly] using plainclothes police to incite riots. Gee whiz, well now I see why people call me 'crazy' when I toss the word "fascist" out in discussing the increasingly corporate controlled world we seem to be living in.
posted by hincandenza at 12:04 PM on July 22, 2001

Chicago, 1886. Detroit 1943. and so on.
posted by clavdivs at 12:10 PM on July 22, 2001

Yeah, I'm sure the Italian military did all those things because the corporations told them to. "Please, incite a riot and be sure that at least one person is killed by an inexperienced policeman. This will make us, your corporate overlords, look really good." Shyeah.
posted by kindall at 12:37 PM on July 22, 2001

Not in so many words, kindall. Fascism doesn't work so freakin' overtly, that's why it's so insidious. Shyeah, indeed! :)
posted by hincandenza at 1:24 PM on July 22, 2001

hey, where's all the people supporting the actions of these italian death squad cops go?!?
posted by jcterminal at 1:33 PM on July 22, 2001

Why, I'm against *both* the protesters' ideas *and* some of the actions of the Italian police, myself. At the same time!
posted by dagny at 1:59 PM on July 22, 2001

Yeah, I'm sure the Italian military did all those things because the corporations told them to.

The police and the military work for the state, if the state has anything to lose by protesting, free speech, etc it will order its goons to be as ruthless as they want to be. Politics and Business are very closely linked and intertwined, in case you haven't noticed.
posted by skallas at 2:30 PM on July 22, 2001

Politics and Business are very closely linked and intertwined, in case you haven't noticed

If you want to take business out of politics, take politics out of business. Best one-liner I ever read.
posted by dagny at 2:32 PM on July 22, 2001

f you want to take business out of politics, take politics out of business. Best one-liner I ever read.

Want to email Silvio Berlusconi that one?
posted by holgate at 2:39 PM on July 22, 2001

Been there, done that, holgate. I also sent it to president Bush. I'm an equal opportunity protester -- I want both conservatives and liberals to leave me the hell alone.
posted by dagny at 3:17 PM on July 22, 2001

plain-clothes police on rabble-rousing duty
inciting protestors to vandalism and/or violence? whipping up a mob?

According to many witnesses they mixed with or preceded non-violent protesters acting as vandals and insulting the police (probably inciting real Black Bloc members to do the same). This gave the police a reason to charge, and they charged into pacific protesters while those provocateurs quickly vanished.
posted by sja at 4:33 PM on July 22, 2001

Would you trust the police to provide unedited footage of them beating the hell out of people?
posted by lagado at 4:59 PM on July 22, 2001

Or, for that matter, even if you did equip the police with recorders, would you trust that particular footage to show the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I sure as hell don't.

The police do a lot of vicious things to protestors. And some of the reports from the Italian branch of indymedia.org only begin to dig at the problem.
posted by ed at 2:51 AM on July 23, 2001