Police State U?
May 12, 2010 10:09 AM   Subscribe

We've already discussed the death of a University of Virginia Lacrosse player, allegedly killed by her boyfriend. Now, UVa President John Casteen (statements on the murder 1, 2, 3, 4) wants greater access to student arrest records in the hopes that it will help prevent violence on campus.
posted by Saxon Kane (23 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Yeah. I want access to everyone in the country's arrest records, for the safety of me and my family. Psychological profiles too. If you're not dangerous, what do you have to hide?
posted by 256 at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mr. Casteen told reporters on Tuesday that information about Mr. Huguely's arrest in 2008 for assaulting a police officer in Lexington, Va., 70 miles from the campus, might have led to his suspension or expulsion if the university had known about it.
Well, convictions are public records, right? So in this case it doesn't sound like the guy ended up being convicted for assaulting a police officer. How many people end up with bogus "Resisting arrest" citations in ambiguous situations? This guy is saying they should all be kicked out of school for sharing an attribute in common with someone who killed his girlfriend?

This kind of thoughtless data sharing is really problematic. If you have 1000 people, and you think one might be violent, is it really a good idea to bar 100 of them from getting a job or an education because they are slightly more likely to be violent?

Especially if we're just talking about Arrests and not Convictions.
posted by delmoi at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2010 [6 favorites]


So, what, are they going to tell two 22-year-old students they can't date because the boyfriend resisted arrest two years ago?

How on earth is that going to "prevent violence on campus"?

Mr. Casteen told reporters on Tuesday that information about Mr. Huguely's arrest in 2008 for assaulting a police officer in Lexington, Va., 70 miles from the campus, might have led to his suspension or expulsion if the university had known about it.

Oh, I see. Seems the on-campus part of that is all that matters... assuming, of course, that Mr. Suspended Or Expelled (and guess which of those it would have been for a star lacrosse player) doesn't just keep dating his girlfriend on campus, anyway. And I suppose that makes up for the legions of students who may lose access to higher education thanks to prior petty drug "offenses", right?

What a mess. This is one of the least useful responses to this I could imagine. Battered women need a support network which makes them feel worthy and safe enough to leave violent men, not a Minority Report meant to help figure out which men are violent (chances are that Yeardley already knew).
posted by vorfeed at 10:35 AM on May 12, 2010 [5 favorites]


This is part of the increasing university trend of attempting to act like minor kingdoms, with their own law enforcement, security systems, laws rules, and monitoring of off-campus student activities. Using a murder as the pretext for the advancement of this particular agenda is cold.
posted by adipocere at 10:35 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


This kind of thoughtless data sharing is really problematic. If you have 1000 people, and you think one might be violent, is it really a good idea to bar 100 of them from getting a job or an education because they are slightly more likely to be violent?

Of course! Now take off your shoes and surrender your yogurt cups and nail clippers, we wouldn't want another 9/11 now would we?
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2010




I've been watching the extensive coverage of this locally, and it's all about murder and lacrosse and privilege and (now) arrest records. And very, very little about domestic violence. Not sexy enough?
posted by JoanArkham at 10:40 AM on May 12, 2010 [12 favorites]


So, what, are they going to tell two 22-year-old students they can't date because the boyfriend resisted arrest two years ago?
No, they're going to kick him out of school,
The arrests of low-income, minority students more often result in convictions than do those of wealthy, suburban students with lawyers, Mr. Nassirian said
Not a problem, they're just going by arrests, not convictions!
posted by delmoi at 10:41 AM on May 12, 2010


What a mess. This is one of the least useful responses to this I could imagine. Battered women need a support network which makes them feel worthy and safe enough to leave violent men
Did he just snap and kill her, or had there been a pattern of abuse before this?
posted by delmoi at 10:43 AM on May 12, 2010


Mr. Casteen told reporters on Tuesday that information about Mr. Huguely's arrest in 2008 for assaulting a police officer in Lexington, Va., 70 miles from the campus, might have led to his suspension or expulsion if the university had known about it.

This troublemaker was arrested for assaulting a police officer and disorderly conduct. An arrest and a conviction are two wildly different things. That seems to be forgotten by these knuckleheads.

Additionally, giving the police extra powers to disrupt or end a student's academic career is pretty scary, especially in colleges with strong friction between the student body and the local population.
posted by peeedro at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2010


Thomas Jefferson, 1800:
"We wish to establish in the upper country of Virginia, and more centrally for the State, a University on a plan so broad and liberal and modern, as to be worth patronizing with the public support, and be a temptation to the youth of other States to come and drink of the cup of knowledge and fraternize with us."

University of Virginia, 2010:
"That's all well and good, Tommy-boy. But what if they got popped for punching a cop? We don't want their kind around here."

Thomas Jefferson, 1776:
"A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


...with their own law enforcement, security systems, laws rules...
...with their own law enforcement, security systems, laws rules whims...

When I was in university no one had read the rules in the student handbook: not the students, security staff, nor the administration. School officials were free to ignore the printed rules, and make up their own as situations arose. When confronted with contradictions between printed policy and enforced policy, the reaction was always dismissive.

I think I and the rulebook committee were the only ones who knew what was in there.

Give this a read.
posted by clarknova at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2010


Yes! Look at their arrest records! Because clearly, domestic violence is so well documented and prosecuted in this country.
posted by yeloson at 11:07 AM on May 12, 2010


Did he just snap and kill her, or had there been a pattern of abuse before this?

I'm not going to hold my nose and wade through all the online press again for links, but this was absolutely a textbook domestic violence case, as I stated before. Huguely was the subject of a domestic violence complaint (albeit on the family yacht) by his own father; his breakup with Love was allegedly precipitated by an incident where he struck her at a party in a drunken blackout and didn't remember the next day; at least one other woman has come forward with allegations of stalkerish, controlling behavior on his part (50 text messages in a single night trying to arrange a meetup); and it's generally believed that he confiscated her laptop on the way out the door in an attempt to delete traces of threats he may have sent electronically. To the extent this may be about lacrosse or class privileged at all, that lies in the fact that there seemed to be a code of silence or inaction on the part of teammates who were aware of what was going on but did nothing in the belief that "people like us" don't end up with one friend battering and murdering another. Every batterer feels a sense of ownership and entitlement; this one just happens to have worn a lacrosse jersey instead of a stained wife beater.
posted by availablelight at 11:14 AM on May 12, 2010 [6 favorites]


availablelight: It seems pretty unlikely that the guy actually would have been kicked out of school then, if he could afford lawyers to represent him through the disciplinary proceedings. It's ironic that most of the burden will fall on poor and lower class students, because of something done by a rich kid.
posted by delmoi at 11:26 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


Is that irony? I thought it was the American Way. Wealth is freedom.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:30 PM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'd add to availablelight's summary these facts: Love broke up with Huguely because he got drunk and aggressive with her recently -- and didn't even remember it the next day because he was so drunk (similarly, he didn't remember being racist and misogynist to the arresting officer in Lexington, or that she had to tase him!). He also didn't remember breaking a car window on his way to her house the night that caused her to dump him. Huguely allegedly beat up a fellow player because he allegedly kissed Love sometime last year. That player isn't talking to the media, so details are not clear, but the Coach apparently "disciplined" them both after the incident. Combined with revelations that former UNC LAXers had to restrain Huguely from attacking her at a party sometime in the last year ... I agree with JoanArkham - local coverage is all about murder and sports with a side of the tragic death of a lovely woman - but the specter of domestic violence is missing. There's a bit of coverage of the "golden young man who has skated by the outcome of his misdeeds" (which reflects certain town/gown strains), but the domestic violence aspects have been really underplayed.

Casteen is leaving office in about a month and a half. At first, I thought he was mostly posturing. That there is a solution that will "fix this" is what the community wants to hear. However, he is trying to pass the buck the Governor and Attorney General so that he can say "We tried" if it doesn't work and "Now with more protection!" if it does. But, even if Virginia cops told UVA everytime someone of college age and identified as a UVA student (or faculty? or staff? or will UVA get access to law enforcement databases?) got in trouble, UVA students come from every other state and most of the countries in the world. They go and party at schools outside Virginia as well as ones inside. Plus the Honor Code (which Huguely signed and I think directed him to tell the administration about the Lexington incident, and not just his Coach - if he told his Coach) is enforced variably at UVA for the same offenses, and some offenses just get a complete wink wink whatever or he said/she said so we can't do anything.

It's funny that this is happening at the same time as the University is looking at how to respond to government intrusion into their affairs (Virginia Attorney General Cuccinelli's broad request for all files associated with a former scientist using a weak, convoluted, strained suspicion of fraud charge so that he can go fishing; the fraud would apply to the grant money and his research results, so everything he did or touched or interacted with would be open for investigation). Casteen has been really really quiet about this, and so has the administration. It could have a really chilling impact on research at Virginia universities, and has inspired concern from anyone who gets a grant at Virginia universities (even if the money comes from out of state, it's administered by a state university) that if their research topic is unpopular or not in favor with the current administration (of whatever political bent), they could be investigated under this precedent.

Meanwhile, Casteen's going to meet with the Governor and the Attorney General to figure out how to pass laws to allow UVA to get a bigger tentacle into the lives of their students.
posted by julen at 12:45 PM on May 12, 2010 [2 favorites]


julen & availablelight (and others): thanks for the excellent additional context.
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:00 PM on May 12, 2010


The real reason people want to do things like this is that's it's cheap and easy. Real protection from domestic violence is hard work. But merging a much of databases? Easy. Who cares if it actually works, or if it hurts anyone. You can claim to have "Done Something"
posted by delmoi at 1:08 PM on May 12, 2010 [2 favorites]


Once again, availablelight (and now julen) read my mind. It's amazing to me that this has been turned into his story. All the narratives are about the handsome, talented, privileged white boy who nobody can believe did a shocking thing. I all but know his stupid lacrosse scores, and the phrase "domestic violence" is scarcely mentioned.

Now, from experience I know that the police often don't do a very good job responding to these situations. Furthermore, effective documentation and prosecution are extremely rare. And I really feel that this attempt to shift the issue to being about arrest records is an attempt to make the people at UVA feel less guilty about the role they played in her death.

It's comforting to say, "Oh, if only we'd known he'd been in trouble before! If only the police had told us, this wouldn't have happened!" In truth, it looks like everything they needed to know was happening in front of their eyes. His arrest record was not nearly as relevant as the way he was behaving toward Yeardley Love everyday. The things that happened off campus that or that he was convicted of weren't as telling as the violence and controlling behavior that happened on campus and without discipline.

If Casteen can make the issue about the police, he can avoid admitting the truth that it was his students and faculty that closed their eyes and made excuses.

That said, as a side note, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the title of this post. As much as I feel like the access to arrest records he wants wouldn't have helped much in this situation (and would very likely be intrusive) it strikes me as another way to tell the story without telling the story. "Invasion of Privacy" and "Lacrosse Star Goes Bad" may make better headlines than "Yet Another Girl Killed by Boyfriend," but they can make it easier to lose site of the real point.
posted by mostlymartha at 2:01 PM on May 12, 2010 [2 favorites]


i'd be surprised if any of this is privileged white boy cover up. unlike some of the posters in this thread, i have absolutely no knowledge of the victim, the accused, the schools in question, or lacrosse. but i do know something about alcoholism & asshole behavior. and even though my 20+ years of familiarity with a.a. tells me i'm not qualified to diagnose someone else as an alcoholic, i feel pretty confident in that assertion when you're talking about someone who's been tazed and can't remember the incident.

the kid is a drunk. no, that's NOT an excuse for killing someone. but it does help to explain why people gave him the benefit of the doubt--alcoholism is a difficult, uncomfortable thing to confront, not just for the alcoholic, but for all those associated with the alcoholic. given my fairly solid white, middle class background and my experience as an alcoholic--both practicing & recovering--, a child of an alcoholic, and a friend/acquaintance of my fair share of alcoholics, i can tell you as gospel truth: you confront, they deny. you push the subject, and they cut all ties, or, if that's not possible, they turn the tables and somehow make *you* feel guilty & full of doubt.

as my friend under-my-brother's-car bob always says: 'alcoholism is an equal opportunity disease; it strikes everywhere from park avenue to park bench.' translation: the dynamics of the disease don't change because you come from a wealthy family.

it's also quite possible that this kid was a jekyll-and-hyde drunk: nice & polite & charming when he was sober and mean as a snake when he was drunk. that happens. to a LOT of people.

and if any of that is even close to the truth, you can subpoena all the records you want & it's not going to help anything. because the excuses that go along with alcoholism aren't unique to a particular class, they're endemic throughout society. while i'm not familiar with domestic violence, it appears to me to have the same traits: shame, humiliation, & fear, coupled with a hope on both the part of the abused & abuser that, like magic, it will change and things will get better.

until people start being open and honest with themselves and with each other, these things aren't going to change. there's a blanket of brotherhood called silence, and it kills people.

from the cdc
In 2005, 329 males and 1181 females were murdered by an intimate partner (Bureau of Justice Statistics 2007).
r.i.p. yeardley love. and the thousands of others who suffer from this very real public health problem.

.
posted by msconduct at 4:52 PM on May 12, 2010 [2 favorites]


just a point of explanation to mostlymartha: I see your point re: the post title, but I was not trying to cover-up or downplay the domestic violence angle. I think definitely this crime is a case of domestic violence, and that it is not being treated as such is a travesty. However, I titled my post the way I did because the new information of the post and the central link deal with the University's response and the potential privacy issues it brings up.
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:05 PM on May 12, 2010


sallybrown, who said she is well acquainted with the culture Huguely grew up in and knows him, made a really good point in the other thread:

Why is George's privileged background important, when at heart this is a domestic violence issue? I think because we assume that early and continuing education against domestic violence and for the proposition that women are people just as deserving of respect as men is the kind of exposure that is key to solving the problem, to breaking the cycle. At least I know I've always hoped that this was true. This is what George got, this message as clear as a bell, along with a close family, and yet with his own two hands he murdered a woman he supposedly "loved" when she tried to assert her free will.


I don't know when you can identify that someone who has piss poor anger management skills until after they hurt someone or do something outlandish. Maybe his parents took him to a therapist when he was younger to deal with his rage and anger. Maybe they decided it wasn't a big deal and that he was just that way. I guess it was acceptable/understandable to his teammates to beat the crap out of some guy who was asleep after learning that he kissed your girlfriend. Maybe it was thought of as manly and heroic. Maybe they thought he had the brains to pick on someone his own size.

I don't know how UVa would even try to implement this kind of thing fairly. I remember there was a girl, Gina Grant, who had gotten into Harvard, but a jealous classmate sent admissions an article about how Grant had killed her mother (allegedly in self-defense). Grant ended up at Tufts University, and from what I remember, she disappeared into anonymity after that.
posted by anniecat at 7:05 AM on May 13, 2010


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