Keep Thundering. Never Forget.

May 31, 2010 12:00 PM

Rolling Thunder XXIII - A seemingly endless line of more than 250,000 motorcycles roared across Memorial Bridge into Washington, DC yesterday. The 23rd annual ride, drawing riders from all over the world, wound its way from the Pentagon parking lot near Arlington National Cemetery, around the National Mall, past the Lincoln Memorial to the Vietnam Memorial, culminating in an emotional gathering at the West end of the Reflecting Pool and the Lincoln Memorial.

Rolling Thunder is a solemn ride to draw attention to the thousands of soldiers who are still held as Prisoners of War, or who are classified as Missing in Action. The symbolic sound and vibration of a quarter million motorcycles is impossible to ignore, and draws support across generational and societal divides. The sheer size of the procession (over 300 miles long, assuming each bike takes up about 10 feet of roadway) is striking. The show of raw emotion on the faces of people who are pretty intimidating 364 days of the year is unforgettable.

This is exactly as it should be -- because we should Never Forget.

posted by toxic (46 comments total)

Operation Rolling Thunder: A failed US military bombing campaign that killed an estimated 90,000 Vietnamese, of whom 72,000 were civilians.
posted by docgonzo at 12:06 PM on May 31, 2010 [6 favorites]

Interesting, thanks. Are there actually still any prisoners of war in enemy hands? I know that in the years immediately after the American withdrawal from Vietnam there were, but are there still any left?
posted by atrazine at 12:08 PM on May 31, 2010

I shudder to think of what that did to the air quality in DC.
posted by charlesminus at 12:12 PM on May 31, 2010

The noise is incredible.
posted by jgirl at 12:13 PM on May 31, 2010

I shudder to think of what that did to the air quality in DC.

You mean the bombing or the motorcycles?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:17 PM on May 31, 2010

...and because nothing says "I support our troops" like burning gasoline. Sorry for the snark, but I don't get this display. At a local Armed Forces Day parade there were three separate groups of motorcycles, some more 'biker-like' than others, and it just felt...weird to me.
Particularly since so many of our wars have been about (or a proxy for) natural resources.
posted by dbmcd at 12:21 PM on May 31, 2010

Are there actually still any prisoners of war in enemy hands

There are thousands of soldiers who are still classified as POW or MIA. The Library of Congress maintains a database of Vietnam-era POW/MIA records for civilian access. Most of them will never be found -- and certainly, many of them are deceased at this point.

There are also at least two POWs in Iraq, whereabouts and vitality unknown. [cite].
posted by toxic at 12:22 PM on May 31, 2010

I shudder to think of what that did to the air quality in DC.

I was driving back from Florida yesterday. I don't know about the air quality, but it completely fuxxored the traffic. Added a good hour to the return trip.
posted by Splunge at 12:31 PM on May 31, 2010

I don't get this display

I am glad I am not alone. Apart from the tribute motorcade, they do not leave the best impression on people who live downtown, as I do. I said something to that effect elsewhere online and got a swift virtual hand-slap that they were honoring the fallen.

I know they are, but it feels in recent years that it's more about the bikers.
posted by jgirl at 12:32 PM on May 31, 2010 [3 favorites]

'Murika
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:33 PM on May 31, 2010 [2 favorites]

These guys also go to any military funeral they are asked to to shield mourners from Phelps and his band.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:36 PM on May 31, 2010 [13 favorites]

I can only assume the DC police were quick to harass and jail many of these traffic-disrupting hippies.
posted by swift at 12:38 PM on May 31, 2010 [4 favorites]

That is a good thing.
posted by jgirl at 12:38 PM on May 31, 2010

MetaFilter: Your favorite band form of Memorial Day Tribute sucks!

Might it be possible, mefits, to take this event at face value? A way for people who believe in this as a form of tribute to express their respect for the fallen and missing, and a way to make sure that we don't forget the price of war?

Although I ride, I've never ridden in Rolling Thunder.
posted by HuronBob at 1:04 PM on May 31, 2010 [7 favorites]

Anyone complaining about motorcycles as an oil-consumptive mode of transit being inappropriate for a Memorial Day tribute should compare the MPG of any motorcycle to the car they drive to work.
posted by doteatop at 1:14 PM on May 31, 2010 [7 favorites]

These guys also go to any military funeral they are asked to to shield mourners from Phelps and his band.

I'm sure that many of the same people who participate in Rolling Thunder do this, but the organization that attends funerals to support the families and shield them from "protesters" is the Patriot Guard.
posted by shiny blue object at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2010 [1 favorite]

I had forgotten that Rolling Thunder was yesterday. My mom and grandmother came to visit me for the holiday weekend, and we headed to the mall for touristy Smithsonian stuff. As soon as we reached the crosswalk on Constitution, the first wave of motorcycles started zipping past us, a seemingly-endless line of them. My boyfriend, mom and I were annoyed that we were going to have to wait for a break in the motorcycles to cross the street to get to the museums, especially considering my limited-mobility, hobbling grandma. But my grandma pushed her way to the edge of the crowd and started cheering. When we were done with the museums, 3 hours later, the motorcycles were still going.

She didn't talk about anything else for the rest of the day. It was her favorite part. I don't particularly care for the motorcycles, the waste of gas, the noise, but it made my grandma's vacation, and for that, I'm okay with it.
posted by kerning at 1:33 PM on May 31, 2010 [6 favorites]

dbmcd: Sorry for the snark, but I don't get this display.

I'm guessing you are not old enough to remember the climate in the country during and after the Vietnam war? This sort of visual and vocal support of Vietnam vets was hard to come by in 1973. Indeed the first Rolling Thunder was in 1987 - a long time a coming.

I have a warm spot in my heart for Vietnam vets. Because of what was done to them, the country ended the draft and I was not forced to do what they were forced to do.

So I will take a moment to think of and thank Eugene Handrahan whose POW bracelet I wore for many, many years. Rest in peace brother.
posted by three blind mice at 1:47 PM on May 31, 2010 [6 favorites]

I am old enough. I wore the MIA bracelet of journalist Sean Flynn until it fell apart.
posted by jgirl at 1:49 PM on May 31, 2010 [1 favorite]

Well, jgirl our choices in wrist band certainly illustrates the divide in American public opinion that made it difficult for Vietnam vets. I respect your choice and say good on you, but I submit that if your metal band had the name of a soldier on it, you might not not mind the noise so much.
posted by three blind mice at 2:12 PM on May 31, 2010

Well three blind mice, I just emailed the mods to delete that comment because I named the wrong person. He was a soldier who was missing in 1964.

I submit that if your metal band had the name of a soldier on it, you might not not mind the noise so much.

FFS! What an incredible thing to say!
posted by jgirl at 2:16 PM on May 31, 2010

Well, jgirl our choices in wrist band certainly illustrates the divide in American public opinion that made it difficult for Vietnam vets.

AIUI, one did not make a choice, one got the bracelet they sent. Perhaps one could request names or service branches - I don't know.
posted by jgirl at 2:20 PM on May 31, 2010

It seems that VIVA did not have the wherewithal to grant special bracelet requests.
posted by jgirl at 2:30 PM on May 31, 2010

I'm old enough to remember Vietnam, and the deep divide it caused in our country-and back then I lived where I do now (that's how it got the nickname Fayettnam.)

Just about anything a Vietnam Vet wants to do is okay by me.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:04 PM on May 31, 2010

Just about anything a Vietnam Vet wants to do is okay by me.

Double-U Tee Eff?
posted by ferdinand.bardamu at 3:08 PM on May 31, 2010

sorry for all the hate here, but that first link brought a tear to my eye. it's the same feeling i got the first time i saw a real, live eagle. magnificent. majestic. the real deal.

i'm old enough to remember vietnam, too. they ended the draft right about the time i entered high school, and the war finally 'ended' about a year after i graduated. the country was divided, and there were two kinds of people: goddamned hippies and 'real' americans who wore 'love it or leave it' like a badge. i only knew one kind of those people, but in my head i was right there in the front lines marching with the goddamn hippies and calling for an end to the 'conflict.' i dreamed of being the one in the picture putting the flower in the barrel of the soldier's gun. in my naive zeal, i blamed everyone associated with the war. including and maybe especially the solider with the gun.

years passed and i started to meet some of those people who were right there on the frontlines, sleeping in jungles, wishing like hell they could be at home enjoying the boredom i had dreamed of escaping. i could hardly believe that these vets were goddamn hippies, and not the salivating killing machines i'd always thought they were.

the war sucked. it was a bad, bad thing. but the people who were over there doing the dirty work of politicians on the hill, those people were people like me and they no way deserved the things i thought about them. i've never mellowed on my position about war, but i sure as hell have mellowed on the people who fight them.

seeing those pics of the bikers ... how many of them ever thought they'd be alive to do that? even the ones who never saw the inside of a uniform, they're there because they know what it took me years to find out: it's an ugly business, and sometimes it changes lives forever, and sometimes it ends lives so very terribly prematurely. all so i can sit in my airconditioned house at my computer and write a trite tribute.

ride on.

.
posted by msconduct at 3:58 PM on May 31, 2010 [7 favorites]

[few comments removed - if you are unclear on how we do things here you can go to metatalk to ask questions, otherwise please try to stick to the topic and maybe make an effort to not seem like a troll if you aren't one]
posted by jessamyn at 4:12 PM on May 31, 2010

oh, and kerning, tell your grandma i'd love to meet her. if she ever gets to new orleans, i'd be happy to show her around & buy her a beer, or a cafe au lait, or whatever. i think she & i would get along just fine.
posted by msconduct at 4:46 PM on May 31, 2010

My cousin served as a doctor in Vietnam and got written up for his extraordinary efforts to save a wounded soldier. I supported him. I opposed the Vietnam war and I have not changed my mind (and "My Country Right or Wrong" still sets my teeth on edge). Fortunately, I never let my opposition to the war turn into a condemnation of those who served in it. I have Vietnam Vet friends/co-workers. The Vietnam Veteran's Memorial in D.C. still moves me to tears every time I go near it. My friend and her family (Vietnamese) left Vietnam to flee the Communist takeover. Rolling Thunder is not my favorite thing (so very noisy) but I get why they do it and figure they need it so more power to them.

Some of these things may seem contradictory. I have very mixed feelings about Vietnam to this day. Welcome to the complexities of the Vietnam generation in the U.S.. Those of us who lived through that time think about it more often than on one or two holidays a year, I assure you.

I remember and salute the courage of all those who died in service to their country on Memorial Day (and salute the many generations in my family who served, from the American Revolution to Vietnam.)
posted by gudrun at 5:00 PM on May 31, 2010 [4 favorites]

Anyone know where these quarter million riders stayed? In hotels?
posted by orthogonality at 5:15 PM on May 31, 2010

orthogonality, some of them do stay in hotels in the DC area. There are number of hotels in my neighborhood in Northern Virginia where I know at least some of them stay.
posted by gudrun at 5:18 PM on May 31, 2010

Slide number twelve here [pdf] seems to have a good list of the hotels they were staying at and there seem to be a lot of hotels in the VA/DC/MD area that were offering discounts. There were a lot of regional chapters, it looks like, who used this to organize road rallies around. The Texas group spent several days on the road to get there.
posted by jessamyn at 5:26 PM on May 31, 2010

Sorry, but they stink, the war stunk. All the motorcycles in the world won't make up for one innocent Vietnamese child incinerated in that ghastly enterprise. Curse you god-damned flag.
posted by charlesminus at 5:27 PM on May 31, 2010 [1 favorite]

Weird, they list the Gaylord Hotel (which is expensive) but no Hiltons.
posted by orthogonality at 6:32 PM on May 31, 2010

Anyone complaining about motorcycles as an oil-consumptive mode of transit being inappropriate for a Memorial Day tribute should compare the MPG of any motorcycle to the car they drive to work.

Most bikes do not have the fancy emission controls cars have, though, mine included. That loud sound you hear is the sound of smog being pumped into the air.
posted by Camofrog at 6:34 PM on May 31, 2010 [1 favorite]

This thread reminded me of something I hadn't thought about for a long time and made me realize something I hadn't thought about.

I remember when Operation Homecoming happened. I was about 9 or 10 years old, and they had these guys on live TV getting off the planes and hugging their families. I'm not proud to admit it, but I was pissed off because it preempted something important like "Godzilla Week" on the 4 O' Clock Movie. I remember my Mom being disgusted with me and snapping something at me when I complained about it. That is really almost the first memory I had of the Vietnam War. I remember before that, when I was all into reading about WWII and the Civil War I asked my parents if the U.S. still fought in wars. They answered something like "We're fighting one in Asia in a place called Vietnam." I asked them why, and I think they said something along the lines of "We don't know." It just wasn't talked about at our house, I'm not sure why. My parents never watched the news when we kids were around.

The thing I hadn't thought about: we moved into our brand-new neighborhood in 1968, I was five and my brother was eight. The oldest kid on our street at the time as probably about 12, so no one on our street had a kid in Vietnam. We lived in a lily-white suburb. I think my parents really wanted to shelter us from the turmoil going on in the world. Looking back on it, we didn't have a clue, our suburban street seemed like it was a little bubble. Maybe that's true for most middle-class white children of that era, I don't if 10 year olds now are aware of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don't know if this comment has a damn thing to do with our discussion, but that is something Metafilter makes me do, and one of the reasons I love it so much: you folks make me think about stuff I usually don't think about it, and that's a good thing.

I'm glad these bikers do this and help people to remember the young folks who had to go fight that terrible war. As somebody mentioned upthread, public support for these guys was hard to come by in 1973, even from this selfish 10 year old.
posted by marxchivist at 7:13 PM on May 31, 2010 [2 favorites]

Just about anything a Vietnam Vet wants to do is okay by me.

Yeah, they got a raw deal, but this is usually the case for vets, unfortunately. I believe what is needed more urgently than memorials for MIAs (not to say it's unworthy of support) is support for social services vets desperately need, such as mental health services and transitional help for vets who end up homeless, which is intertwined in many ways. The VA has improved considerably in the last decade, which is a testament to providing medical services in an efficient and cost-effective manner. So, it's not like we couldn't deal with these problems if we really wanted to. How much is that B-2 Bomber program really worth when you stack it up against these problems?

Vietnam illustrated a specific problem with war which we had not fully confronted as a society- how war can break a person mentally, and how failing to deal with soldiers' problems beyond the battlefield is short-sighted and feeds into lives of addiction and homelessness, affecting the lives of people generations in the future. We pay the price for it every day, and considering how long Iraq/Afghanistan have been grinding on, we're going to keep paying it for a while. I think we need more demonstrations to demand help for the vets who are used by the government and casually cast aside, people among us whom we can identify and help today.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:28 PM on May 31, 2010 [4 favorites]

Vietnam illustrated a specific problem with war which we had not fully confronted as a society- how war can break a person mentally, and how failing to deal with soldiers' problems beyond the battlefield is short-sighted and feeds into lives of addiction and homelessness, affecting the lives of people generations in the future. We pay the price for it every day, and considering how long Iraq/Afghanistan have been grinding on, we're going to keep paying it for a while.

Yeah, this.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:37 PM on May 31, 2010

I'm a Vietnam vet. Joined the Navy to stay out of the worst of the war and ended up making landings with the Amphibious Marines. I dealt with the animosity of walking through town in uniform. I'm pleased to see the respect that the current set of service men and women are getting and the fact that someone is finally appreciating the our sacrifices.
posted by jgaiser at 8:12 PM on May 31, 2010 [4 favorites]

What I don't get is how the motorcycles fit into the picture. We're supposed to associate POW's with what exactly? Stupidly loud exhaust? Chrome? Outdated internal combustion engine technology? Leather? What?
posted by c13 at 8:55 PM on May 31, 2010 [2 favorites]

I went to Rolling Thunder a few years back not really knowing what to expect and was very moved by it. Seeing this large community coming together like that was really powerful, whatever your politics. If you're ever in DC for Memorial Day, check it out.
posted by EnormousTalkingOnion at 9:13 PM on May 31, 2010

Regarding many of you who don't understand the motorcycles and veterans thing: The whole (outlaw) biker thing basically started after WW2 with veterans seeking a way to vent the stressors of the war and searching for the adrenaline rushes they were used to experiencing in war time and as an escape from civilian life many were having problems adjusting to. There were a surplus of WW2 motorcycles abound for bargain prices, such as the Harley-Davidson WLA, and the vets snapped them up and went to taking off the unneeded war time equipment and customizing them to make them their own. One of the most famous biker groups, the Hells Angels has its name origins from war time, being the name of many fighting units and squadrons in WWI and WW2, a squadron in the famous Flying Tigers, as well as a famous B17 bomber that went on a morale raising tour in America after being the first U.S. plane to complete 25 combat missions over Europe.

Riding a motorcycle is something that just can't be explained to those who haven't done it and can be a very therapeutic way to clear the mind and relieve stress. I'm sure it did wonders for veterans after the horrors of WW2 and wars thereafter, dealing with PTSD and what not. It also helped continue a sense of camaraderie and brotherhood among the former soldiers established during war time, a bond not easily understood by civilians. Also, the origins of the Iron Cross motif, swastikas, etc. you often see on bikers were from the war booty sported by the original WW2 veterans.

(As far as environmental concerns, motorcycles are capable of getting incredible gas mileage (especially with smaller displacement bikes) and nowadays are being equipped with fuel injection and even catalytic converters and other emissions control devices. The loud and smelly ones you have encountered are generally either older models and/or highly customized, often blatantly illegally.)


Ride on, brothers and sisters of the road....
posted by mizjana2u at 10:27 PM on May 31, 2010 [3 favorites]

What I don't get is how the motorcycles fit into the picture.

In the past, many outlaw bikers were returning servicemen who had problems re-integrating into society. The POW-MIA patch was a fixture of many outlaw biker gangs' colors. Thus, support for POWs is part of a biker subculture which the majority of these people likely have no real connection to other than the fact that they've bought into Harley-Davidson's marketing. They're white upper-middle-class insecure men who are making themselves feel macho in the most cliche way possible in our culture other than perhaps becoming a cowboy, and use the trappings of the one-percenter subculture to mask the simple fact that they enjoy being obnoxious with their loud-shiny-go-vroom toys and getting plenty of attention. There's a yearly rally here where they all come to ride aggressively in groups and gun their engines at stop lights and generally take the weekend off from being a dentist or whatever to pretend they're Hell's Angels, and if I had a button that would make them all explode I'd probably press it.
posted by DecemberBoy at 10:33 PM on May 31, 2010

Well, I actually have an affinity for bikers and have spent a lot of time partying with them, but this was some time ago. The culture has changed somewhat, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that the bikers got older, too, and gangs that were not associated with bikers at all began to take the drug trade and the attention. But they're still around. There's a rally up here in Red River every Memorial Day, and plenty of actual outlaw bikers among them. They've always slanted pretty conservative, mostly because of the origins. But you're right, as much as you're as likely to find a middle class dad on a Harley as anyone wearing real colors, but sometimes those middle class dads are just old bikers, and plenty vets among them, too. I just wish they hadn't become a propaganda tool of the GOP, but I don't think it's entirely fair to put them all in that box, either.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:02 AM on June 1, 2010

Motorcycles are cool and so is Rolling Thunder as far as I'm concerned. I was at a hotel party with a bunch of them this weekend (mostly hispanic dudes from Connecticut for some reason) and they were all bemused but delighted by the gay weirdness going on around them. They drank a ton and enjoyed the music.

I grew up here in DC and feel like I can say for most of us natives that this parade is one of the least annoying collection of tourists that passes through town every summer, right up there with Capital Pride on the Fun Disruption meter.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:20 AM on June 1, 2010

I talked with a couple guys who rode up from Texas to ride in Rolling Thunder when I was visiting Gettysburg Sunday. They were Vietnam vets, but they were very clear that they were honouring vets from all the wars. I give them a lot of credit for riding that far.

Don't want to derail, but while folks above are correct that the outlaw biker thing comes out of WWII, there is a large difference between three patch, or outlaw motorcycle clubs and two patch, non-outlaw motorcycle organizations (which is what the combat vets are). Some folks belong to both kinds of groups. The middle class men who've bought the HD marketing are another group entirely.
posted by QIbHom at 9:36 AM on June 1, 2010