Be yourselves, kids.

June 24, 2010 12:29 AM

Looking back one year later Silent Bob Speaks: Selling Out Carnegie Hall

" What I do know is that show was
(if you’ll forgive the use of a once-fun term that’s been appropriated and beaten into the ground by the synergy-speaking sales-bots of corporate America)
a game-changer for me.
After reading on the internet for a year straight how I’d become “irrelevant”,
filling an expensive theater
in one of the most competitive markets on the planet
reminded me just who the fuck I am. "

posted by will wait 4 tanjents (88 comments total)

Even if Kevin Smith didn't suck this post still would.
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 12:35 AM on June 24, 2010 [7 favorites]

Yeah, wow, he's really somebody. You tell yourself, dude!
posted by Meatbomb at 12:39 AM on June 24, 2010

Perhaps that was a very bad example of his message of the post.
Is there a retract button on this thing??
posted by will wait 4 tanjents at 12:56 AM on June 24, 2010

Well, having glazed (not glossed, glazed - it's 4AM here and I can't sleep) over the article, I gotta say it sounds like his new medication is working very, very well for him.
posted by Ryvar at 1:08 AM on June 24, 2010

Kevin Smith is the Lady Gaga of whatever it is he thinks he does.
posted by Gamien Boffenburg at 1:23 AM on June 24, 2010 [7 favorites]

Kevin Smith is the Nickelback of what he's actually doing.
posted by Gamien Boffenburg at 1:32 AM on June 24, 2010 [11 favorites]

I liked this post, and Kevin's flickr feed, which is refreshingly down-to-Earth. Don't let the haters get you down.
posted by killdevil at 1:49 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

Kevin Smith is the Lady Gaga of whatever it is he thinks he does.

I thought Lady Gaga has 'talent'.

And his costumes seriously suck.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:53 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]

I was not clear. Lady Gaga is very talented, Kevin Smith seems to spend all his time talking about being talented.

That still doesn't make sense. I just want to hate Kevin Smith. I've been told too many times he's incredible when he so clearly aint. He's not mind-numbingly terrible, but- actually, that's exactly what he is.

I'm drunk and will go away.
posted by Gamien Boffenburg at 1:57 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

Yeah, this is strangely "look at me people sometimes pay to see me on stage" and "take heart in my cool accomplishment because maybe you can accomplish something but srsly, look at CARNEGIE HALL!" and very little else. For someone whose writing I am occasionally amused by, this post is strange and awkward and almost sort of sad.
posted by disillusioned at 2:02 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Gamien Boffenburg: “Kevin Smith is the Nickelback of what he's actually doing.”

Dude, you can dislike the man or his style, but this kind of insult is just uncalled for.
posted by koeselitz at 2:09 AM on June 24, 2010 [9 favorites]

Ok.
If this post doesstick around then we need to absolutely stack this page with as many critical terms and phrases as we possibly can in as google-friendly a way as we can muster so that sometime tomorrow Smith trips over it while furiously googling his own name.

Once he sees this, he will have no choice but to pay his $5, register as "Dickjoke Buttkiss" or whatever and start striking some righteous blows for narciss- ...er ...the little guy, as represented for all of us selflessly by him.

So now we just need to figure out what woos best as bait for the thin-skinned....
We have to be vigilant.

Any ideas?

(P.S. While time is of the essence, never fear. If we don't catch him during the 7:05 googling of "Kevin Smith" we will still have 34 more half-hourly opportunities to catch his eye. And that doesn't even count Friday.)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 2:29 AM on June 24, 2010 [5 favorites]

He needed a hat.

Tag with Kevin Smith weight gain good writer poor dressed we-all-have-off-days-thankfully-most-of-them-we-can-keep-to-ourselves-dont-broadcast-them-on-our-personal-website...
posted by From Bklyn at 2:46 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

If this post doesstick around then we need to absolutely stack this page with as many critical terms and phrases as we possibly can in as google-friendly a way as we can muster so that sometime tomorrow Smith trips over it while furiously googling his own name.

What an unnecessarily unpleasant thing to say.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:00 AM on June 24, 2010 [8 favorites]

in one of the most competitive markets on the planet
reminded me just who the fuck I am.

That guy who made a half decent film 15 years ago and recently got thrown off a plane for being grossly overweight?
posted by fire&wings at 3:17 AM on June 24, 2010

Whenever I want self-validation I just gaze at my 'Favorited by others' count...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:28 AM on June 24, 2010 [4 favorites]

I don't know. Speaking as someone who struggles with self-esteem issues, on those occasions when I actually feel as though I've done something really remarkable, and I recognize that it was me that did that remarkable thing, I feel a fairly strong urge to share it. That's not necessarily narcissism. I'm reminding myself as much as I'm reminding you. Anyway, selling out Carnegie Hall, even if you did have to cheat a little and be self-conscious about it, is remarkable.

And, yeah, I'm a little bit surprised at the vitriolic backlash here, against both poster and subject. Do you all need hugs or something?
posted by nerdinexile at 3:45 AM on June 24, 2010 [11 favorites]

As he says, ticket sales information is closely guarded. These kinds of shows are not produced by Carnegie Hall, you just rent the room with cash upfront. Haven't checked the prices recently, but maybe $100K per night. Having plopped that down, if sales aren't brisk what do you do? Give them away in blocks.

But it's still pretty much the same thing, somebody paid for each seat. You go ahead and see if you can get that together. The self-congratulation is not so winning, but he did do what he claims he did, and it is a recognized benchmark of sorts. I'm happy that he's happy, would you rather read about some sad, failed show?
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:06 AM on June 24, 2010

It's just that that last movie of his was such a groaner capping a career of groaners with some mildly interesting interludes. But I really learned my Smith hate after listening to his podcast. Can you say everything-phobic asshole? Well, he loves McDonalds, anyway.
posted by telstar at 4:07 AM on June 24, 2010

Metafilter: Do you all need hugs or something?
posted by Fleebnork at 4:17 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Actually, on reread, that first paragraph (of my comment) didn't make much in the way of sense. Basically I'm trying to establish the difference between talking yourself up because you want to appear better than everyone else and talking yourself up because your default state is down. One is worthy of contempt, or at least irritation. The other I think people could stand to be a little more tolerant of.

I make no judgment as to which of these two things Smith is doing, but people who go into show business, I imagine, have a pretty deep-seated need to prove themselves to large groups of people.
posted by nerdinexile at 4:25 AM on June 24, 2010

After reading on the internet for a year straight how I’d become “irrelevant”,

Dude, you're still fucking irrelevant. Oh no, wait, I did like your work during the 2010 Southwest Airlines incident.
posted by crossoverman at 4:31 AM on June 24, 2010

Kevin Smith's whole speaking tour is legitimized by his Prince story.
posted by NolanRyanHatesMatches at 4:32 AM on June 24, 2010 [11 favorites]

Having plopped that down, if sales aren't brisk what do you do? Give them away in blocks.

Aside from that, the NYC metro area has some 12 million people who are living in crummy little apartments and houses, with not much more to do than sit around and watch TV and surf the internet like you and I, of an evening. I've actually gone to Carnegie Hall to see people from TV and movies I only kinda liked, just because they had high name recognition, and -- heck -- it was just a chance to see 'em and, why not? Jose Jimenez, for instance.
posted by Faze at 4:34 AM on June 24, 2010

He has a fan base. Was he really unaware of it?

But, yeah, make a few more cop films starring Tracy Morgan and Bruce Willis and then let's repeat this Carnegie Hall experiment.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:52 AM on June 24, 2010

Smith's winniness baffles me. He's made, by my count, 4 very watchable movies (Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma and Clerks 2). Not great movies, but fun. He's made his money. He has a family. People still give him money to make movies. So what's the problem?

I think the dude needs to stop compulsively reading every single internet thread referencing him, and get a shrink. It's weird, he's sort of gone from being a fairly confident person to allowing others to define who he is. During the plane incident, I remember him saying something to the effect that now he was always going to be remembered as the fat dude on the plane; that he was sad his bio was going to be defined by that event. I found that very telling. The guy needs to get off the internet for a while. He certainly can afford it.
posted by Omon Ra at 4:59 AM on June 24, 2010

Did he really sell out Carnegie Hall or did they make him buy the extra tickets because he couldn't fit in one seat?
posted by MegoSteve at 5:08 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

Wow. I'm no fan of his either but all you thread-shitting haters make me want to make smokin' hot man-love to him.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:31 AM on June 24, 2010 [6 favorites]

So it's ok to make fun of fat people if they are Kevin Smith?
posted by smackfu at 5:36 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think the "whining" you perceive comes from constantly having to prove himself; I know his pain. When people meet a grossly obese person; even one who has constantly proven themselves, there's always that "why can't you just lose the weight and be normal" vibe that comes off them. If you're not grossly obese you may never ever experience it, it's like a constant failure that never ends.

Trust me; I'm sharing an anecdote which is totally the same as Data right?

Now he may not actually have to prove himself; but I'm willing to bet that he feels like he does and if I remember correctly he has in fact said as much.

Being fat is like being obviously handicapped; except people (save for assholes) will try to accommodate an obvious disability. Fat is self-inflicted, right? Those looks you get are a constant reminder of how you've failed to defeat that monkey on your back and until you do, you're a failure.

South west did Nothing to break that cycle. It validated it and the jokes (see above re:seats) that I'm sure he caught in other places just reinforced it all; you're fat so you fail.


No matter how successful Kevin Smith is; unless he drops the weight he may never feel successful.

Any other fat folks wanna chime in on this?
posted by NiteMayr at 5:49 AM on June 24, 2010

During the plane incident, I remember him saying something to the effect that now he was always going to be remembered as the fat dude on the plane;

Well, maybe he should, I dunno lose the weight or something, then he could be known as the guy who used to be fat but lost a lot of weight. He just seems gigantic. Obviously he's got plenty of money, why not hire a trainer, and even a personal chief. I don't really understand how people with so much can let their bodies go like that. Oh well.
posted by delmoi at 5:50 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

I got no opinion on the dude's body, and my opinion of his filmic output has veered wildly back and forth since I first saw Clerks in high school, but this is the single best thing I've ever seen from Kevin Smith: a twenty-minute oral history of his involvement in the Superman remake.
posted by Greg Nog at 6:05 AM on June 24, 2010 [4 favorites]

Jesus christ, you people suck.

Fuckin' hipsters.
posted by grubi at 6:11 AM on June 24, 2010 [5 favorites]

I find his Q&A shows sort of interesting. I had been a fan of his early films, they made me laugh. More recent films have not impressed me, but I take the time to see the "Evening with..." shows via Netflix. I subscribed to the Smodcast for a while and it helped me understand there's something appealing in listening to someone you like riff about the world. It helped me understand why I don't like Howard Stern's show. I don't like him, and that makes the show too hard to take for me.

Smith Q&A's are part one-man show, part comedy act, part storytelling. Though they're unrehearsed, and way more dirty, they remind me of Spalding Gray's shows. It's just a guy who comes and talks. He can tell a story. The Superman Story is proof of that. It sounds like he really sold out Carnegie Hall, which is pretty cool. What any of this has to do with his weight I don't know.
posted by artlung at 6:32 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]

They can mock now, but in a few weeks or months two guys are going to show up at their doors, one skinny with long hair and the other not so skinny and somewhat quiet to repay them for the words they posted on the Internet. Tsk!
posted by Atreides at 6:34 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

He's no Sally Field. Or is that Fields? *shrug* Whatever.
posted by terrapin at 6:56 AM on June 24, 2010

Doesn't Kevin Smith's beard keep the moon from falling?
posted by zizzle at 6:56 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

I know his pain. When people meet a grossly obese person; even one who has constantly proven themselves, there's always that "why can't you just lose the weight and be normal" vibe...

I guess. Thing is I never thought of Kevin Smith as grossly obese until he started constantly pointing that out in every other interview. My perception of him was: "well intentioned but juvenile". He's the one that keeps droning on and on the fact that he's fat, balding, has a tiny dick, is lazy, etc.
posted by Omon Ra at 7:06 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]

Again, if you aren't grossly obese; you have no idea. I went from 75 pounds to 225 pounds so fast I don't remember EVER being 100+ pounds. I was less active than the kids who played hockey but played baseball and rode bikes and so on. I even went to the gym and was praised for my speed and athleticism in Rugby and Basketball, but I was still a butterball and stayed so ever since.

I'm an on again off again gym member; more off than on. I suppose if I had the cash I'd go the gastric bypass route as nothing else seems to work (strict diet + exercise didn't lose me a pound)

Now, he could go the full gastric bypass route and get slim, for sure. Who knows if he will.

He goes on about it because (I believe) every thought that passes through his head comes out of his mouth. You don't think his appearance consumes him; he works with actors and actresses; sometimes models sometimes singers. These are attractive people; constant reminders that he should get into shape and fix himself. It's a heavy weight (metaphorically speaking) to be so fat around so many healthy people.

Again, this is an anecdote; who knows.

I do believe he is trying to "own" his weight by talking about it and trying to be "cool" about it (tubby bitch, lunchbox, etc) but while being yet another attention getter I'd be willing to stake my 2 years of psych classes on his need for validation stemming from his own self-loathing at being a failure for not losing the weight.

That's just my 50 cents.
posted by NiteMayr at 7:21 AM on June 24, 2010

Oh, so he's fat: aside from his doctor, his inner nagging voice, his friends, his wife, and his airline, who cares if he's fat?

Not all of his movies are great, even Clerks 2, and not even Rosario Dawson could save it. What I admire Smith for is making Clerks from little more than dirt, then, when he got a little scratch, he started helping others make their own films. Read this bit at the end of the article: "Sure, it’s something I did; but it could easily represent what you’re going to do."

Self-pity? Yeah. Lowbrow humor in his films? Agreed. Insecure? Yup. Poor eating habits? Granted.

Goes out of his way to give other people a shot? Yes.
posted by adipocere at 7:25 AM on June 24, 2010 [8 favorites]

I like Kevin smith and I'm a normally sized hipster.
More anecdata!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:12 AM on June 24, 2010

I'll say this as well. Because of these rather entertaining storytelling gigs he's become emblematic of honesty and kindness despite his personal failings ( which both narcissim and self-pity are two of them) and we need more people like that in thee entertainment business and elsewhere.

The hate he inspires and his goodnatured reactions to it should be an object lesson in Shoulder-off-brushing, even if he ventures into kanye levels of self-congratulation sometimes

go on with yr big ass self ksmitty
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:18 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

"Sure, it’s something I did; but it could easily represent what you’re going to do."

If a guy who has been famous for like 15 years and who has hyper-rabid fan-base can sell out Carnegie Hall, I guess anything is possible! Thanks, Coach!
posted by 23skidoo at 8:22 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]

That's RIGHT.
posted by grubi at 8:23 AM on June 24, 2010

I haven't seen all of Smith's recent work... I liked Zack and Miri, never got around to seeing Clerks 2 or Cop Out... But I do enjoy his writing, and so what? The guy is insecure and feels the need to write about having a successful year, after some self-doubt issues. Good for him, for having a good year.

And it seems that in the Southwest affair, he claims he *did* actually fit in the seat, and the armrests were able to go down, and that Southwest dicked him around. And it seems like fitting in the seat is something that could be easily disproved, so why would you lie about it?
posted by antifuse at 8:24 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, his story about Jason Mewes' drug addiction problems and getting clean was some fascinating reading, which he unfortunately took off his blog to put into a book.
posted by antifuse at 8:28 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Even if Kevin Smith is an okay guy, that doesn't make this a good post. Take out the obnoxious self-congratulation and all you have is some warmed-over graduation-speech cliches.

Also: (based on pictures?) he's not that fat. Lots of ordinary people are fat like that. Not a big accomplishment.
posted by grobstein at 8:44 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, man, he's not even all that good at being fat!
Fuckyeah.

he does appear to be an all-around ok guy, and that is definitely to be commended. But I don't want to know so much about him - and I wasn't expecting that much when I clicked the link. If I followed his blog/twitter maybe I'd know better, but I don't and won't.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:51 AM on June 24, 2010

Kevin Smith is the Cory Doctorow of film-making.
posted by Ratio at 9:01 AM on June 24, 2010 [5 favorites]

People being angry at fat jokes against Kevin Smith is like people getting angry at weird outfit jokes against Lady Gaga.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:09 AM on June 24, 2010

Well, maybe he should, I dunno lose the weight or something, then he could be known as the guy who used to be fat but lost a lot of weight. He just seems gigantic. Obviously he's got plenty of money, why not hire a trainer, and even a personal chief. I don't really understand how people with so much can let their bodies go like that. Oh well.

What I don't understand is why comments like this are acceptable here. And I really, really don't understand the mindset behind this kind of comment. I mean, do you really think that all fat people need to do is be rich enough to afford personal trainers and chefs so that they can get unfat? Jeez, take one good long look at Oprah Winfrey's weight history if you need that myth debunked. She's the richest woman in the country and she can't keep her weight down to a level that would satisfy people who think like this. Sure, people like her and Kevin Smith could take the next "logical" step and have gastric bypass surgery, but why the fuck should they? The health risks for having that kind of surgery are pretty equal to the risks of staying fat, and in some cases outweigh (hardy har har) the risks of staying fat.

In addition, I'm disappointed as hell to see all the thread-shitting and hatred being slung around in this thread. Here's an idea, folks: if you don't like the subject of a thread, stay the fuck out of it. Doing anything else just makes you look like an asshole.
posted by palomar at 9:11 AM on June 24, 2010 [7 favorites]

Here's an idea, folks: if you don't like the subject of a thread, stay the fuck out of it. Doing anything else just makes you look like an asshole.

Lots of people disagree.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:17 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

oh, so it's cool now to go into a thread and shit all over it because you don't like the subject of the post? awesome! i can't wait to go shit all over whatever thread comes up next that i don't like!!!
posted by palomar at 9:22 AM on June 24, 2010

Jay: [as Silent Bob is 'flying' across the mall towards the stage] Fly, Fatass, fly!
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:24 AM on June 24, 2010

Metafilter: I can't wait to go shit all over whatever thread comes up next that i don't like!!!

sorry
posted by antifuse at 9:24 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

[Jay explains the details of Operation Dark Knight to Silent Bob]
Jay: Okay Lunchbox, let's try this again. We tie you to the roof and you jump off and sail like a Spitfire passing right over the arch nemesis La Fours. You then swing up to the stage and knock out the pin. And when that's gone the stage is trashed and we go smoke a bowl. You got it? Now get your fat ass up there. And dude, don't forget your helmet. Snoogens.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:25 AM on June 24, 2010

Threeway Handshake: Those are ok because it's Kevin Smith making fun of himself being fat, obviously. Like black comedians making n-word jokes.
posted by antifuse at 9:29 AM on June 24, 2010

Obviously he's got plenty of money, why not hire a trainer, and even a personal chief. I don't really understand how people with so much can let their bodies go like that. Oh well.

One of the things I truly like about Kevin Smith is he's living proof that the idea that money solves problems is a myth. The man's problem with his weight isn't his inability to lose it, it's how much it defines him. This is something that I've had experience with and I think most people who struggle with their weight can relate. Growing up as a large person shapes so much of your personality and how you relate to others and the world, and it's hard to let go of that, even if you do lose the weight.
posted by billyfleetwood at 9:30 AM on June 24, 2010 [5 favorites]

[Jay explains the details of Operation Dark Knight to Silent Bob]
Jay: Okay Lunchbox, let's try this again. We tie you to the roof and you jump off and sail like a Spitfire passing right over the arch nemesis La Fours. You then swing up to the stage and knock out the pin. And when that's gone the stage is trashed and we go smoke a bowl. You got it? Now get your fat ass up there. And dude, don't forget your helmet. Snoogens.

"Snoogens"? Is that like "smooches"?
posted by grobstein at 9:31 AM on June 24, 2010

Jay: Man, why do you always have to tell that fuckin' gay story for?
Silent Bob: Man, shut up.
Jay: You shut up, you fat fuck!
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:32 AM on June 24, 2010

I think you have to separate Kevin Smith: Moveimaker from Kevin Smith: Public Speaker.

When he's speaking, his time on stage is all about having the bare honest emotional truth laid out before his audience. He will say anything, and will be completely frank about it. When he's speaking at colleges, I'm sure this is a healthy thing, because he's saying a lot of things which people have thought about and have never really had the courage to say out loud, or he's explaining things which people have always wondered, or any other number of positive things which can some from having someone simply "say it" without worry of censorship or rejection for saying it.

When he's making movies, it seems that most of his movies are about avoiding the truth. There's a veneer of pop culture reference and shallow discussion which permeates the dialog in his films which seems (to me) to be a mask to hide the character's own insecurities, and his later films seem to be about people avoiding the obvious truth at cost to themselves.

I've really enjoyed all the public speaking segments I've seen from KS. He's witty, charming, knows how to tell a damn fine story, and has an ability to interview others in a way which has them also being bare bones honest in front of audiences. I've enjoyed some but not all of his movies, and have felt frustrated that his attempts to be a less juvenile movie maker have been thwarted by *some*thing, either bad script or clumsy acting or poor directing or bad editing or any combination of the above. I can clearly see his intentions, but his "grown-up" movies seem to lack an honesty which movies like Clerks or Mallrats or even Dogma have.

But yeah, if he considers selling out Carnegie Hall to be an accomplishment he can look back on with pride, then I support that.
posted by hippybear at 9:37 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

"Snoogens"? Is that like "smooches"?

Snoogens is an offshoot of "snoochie boochies"... The origin of which was explained in one of the Kevin Smith Q&As, if I'm not mistaken.
posted by antifuse at 9:46 AM on June 24, 2010

One of the things I truly like about Kevin Smith is he's living proof that the idea that money solves problems is a myth. The man's problem with his weight isn't his inability to lose it, it's how much it defines him.

And he never really pulls any punches when he talks about how he's struggled with his weight, either, or about how it's very much his own fault that he hasn't managed to reach his weight loss goals.
posted by antifuse at 9:47 AM on June 24, 2010

It would be awesome if we could not be incredibly snarky about this sort of thing.

I actually tend to admire Kevin Smith. I think his article about the strip club was a sort of "duh" moment, but other than that he's seemed pretty honest and forthright and the fact that he's arrogant about his accomplishments seems to me to be paid back by what social accommodations he makes for other people (including how self-effacing he can be).

The fact is, if you are going to be successful in Hollywood, you play by those rules to some extent and some of that is that you have to be self-promoting or really really really lucky. Given the length of time he's been fully or partially successful, I think it's obvious that the dude's going to be a self-promoter.

So what? Get over it. It's part of his job.
posted by kalessin at 10:21 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

If you're on the fence about Kevin Smith, I recommend you give a listen to the DVD commentaries he did for the US release of Spaced—The Complete Series. I guarantee you'll come away from them absolutely loathing the man.

Unless, that is, you think it's the height of hi-larity to hear a guy, obviously in love with the sound of his own voice, relentlessly grilling a bewildered-sounding Jessica Hynes (a complete stranger to him, mind you) about the intimate, messy details of her pregnancy-related nipple leakage.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:27 AM on June 24, 2010

What I don't understand is why comments like this are acceptable here.

The fact that the mods don't delete them doesn't mean they're acceptable. People say all sort so horrendous, uninformed, insensitive shit on this site that doesn't get deleted.

As to why Kevin Smith doesn't lose weight, I dunno. My guess he's tried and not had much luck with it. He may be predisposed to gaining weight, and he may have years of bad habits that he has to address, and he may simply like delicious food. I don't know what his issue is, because he isn't my friend and hasn't confided in me, and because his weight has no impact on my life, it's none of my business.

He is, however, a crappy filmmaker. If his sensitivity about his weight is the source of his lack of self-confidence, he's focusing on the wrong thing.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:35 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

I like Kevin Smith and I'm an aging hipster. He's pretty honest about who he is on his blog and SModcast, and that's part of his charm.
His blog post is all about the change in direction over the course of the year, about him finding a new place to go. Yes, it was phrased oddly, but since Kevin Smith has never personally insulted me, I see no need to crap all over him.
posted by arcticseal at 10:52 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]

Haters gonna hate.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:31 PM on June 24, 2010

Kevin's going to be furious when he discovers he actually left the image of someone other than himself in one of the pictures he cropped for his web page.
posted by digsrus at 12:53 PM on June 24, 2010

KEVIN SMITH SURE IS AWFUL WHAT WITH HIS HOLOCAUSTING AND RAPE AND CRIMINAL STUFF

GOD I WISH HE'D DIE

-HIPSTA *OUT*!
posted by grubi at 1:16 PM on June 24, 2010

I was not clear. Lady Gaga is very talented, Kevin Smith seems to spend all his time talking about being talented.

No, not really.

In fact, if:
a) Lady Gaga gained a lot of weight and dressed like a normal person, or
b) Lady Gaga gained a lot of weight and Kevin Smith dressed in utensils, light bulbs and fish, or
c) Lady Gaga dressed like a normal person and Kevin Smith lost a lot of weight, or
d) Kevin Smith lost a lot of weight and dressed in utensils, light bulbs and fish,

they would be roughly the equivalents of each other in their respective fields of activity.
posted by Anything at 2:49 PM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

filling an expensive theater
in one of the most competitive markets on the planet
reminded me just who the fuck I am.

He's Kenny fucking Powers?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:02 PM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

a) Lady Gaga gained a lot of weight and dressed like a normal person, or


Kevin Smith does not dress like a normal person.
posted by Omon Ra at 3:45 PM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]

What I don't understand is why comments like this are acceptable here. And I really, really don't understand the mindset behind this kind of comment. I mean, do you really think that all fat people need to do is be rich enough to afford personal trainers and chefs so that they can get unfat? Jeez, take one good long look at Oprah Winfrey's weight history if you need that myth debunked. She's the richest woman in the country and she can't keep her weight down to a level that would satisfy people who think like this. Sure, people like her and Kevin Smith could take the next "logical" step and have gastric bypass surgery, but why the fuck should they? The health risks for having that kind of surgery are pretty equal to the risks of staying fat, and in some cases outweigh (hardy har har) the risks of staying fat.

Get thin like a poor person would? Hard work? Self control? Use their money to get some nice equipment and advice? Fat guy who makes career out of being that goofy fat guy, called fat. News at 11. And his films are fucking shit. He is the tiresome dude who "made it" and prolonged his career by going on like a broken record about it. Put down your tiresome wordpress template and go and make some worthwhile movies.
posted by fire&wings at 5:12 PM on June 24, 2010

Wow. Just wow. Never mind hugs, some of you people need anger management-- on both sides of this whole Kevin Smith thing. Everyone just chill out and relax. So you don't think he a good film maker and find him painfully unfunny. That's cool, just keep in mind that you wouldn't even of known about his Carnegie Hall gig if you hadn't clicked on the post. You only have yourself to blame for getting all worked up about him.

As for those of you (and myself) who like KS, or at least part of his public work, keep in mind that most of the criticism of him and his movies is valid. I don't know if making the "Kevin Smith: Bohdisatva of White Suburbran Enlightenment" argument your last battlefield is really worth the effort (though I do encourage EVERYONE to go listen to his two podscasts that dealt directly with the Southwest Airline Incident-- his interview with the woman SW shamed publically just to be a dick to him is compelling stuff.)
posted by KingEdRa at 6:02 PM on June 24, 2010

Yeah, I'm gonna just come right out and say it: this is the ugliest thread I've read on Metafilter in a long, long, long time.

I mean, here's the thing – I don't much care for Kevin Smith or his movies, and I could sit here and tell you why all day long. In fact, I'm the last person who should have any right to point this out, since I would usually be the first person to hate on the topic of the post at hand and/or lay lots of shit all over anyone and anything I dislike even slightly. This isn't the kind of post I usually would've gotten into, and I'm actually sort of surprised that I clicked through and read the comments soon after it was first posted.

However: the hate here is the most virulent and pernicious kind of hate, because it's a dull, homogeneous hate that we all seem to agree on. You're all saying exactly the same things about why you hate Kevin Smith, apparently vying to outdo each other in coming up with provocative ways of saying you dislike him: he's fat, he doesn't care that he's fat, he shows off the fact that he's fat, he's whiny, he's like Lady Gaga (guilt by association!) et cetera. A few people have come in to object to the tone, but they are promptly washed away by a rising tide of tepid bile.

I kind of think I get it; most of us in the present generation grew up being told by certain people that Kevin Smith and his movies were the incarnation of all things holy, and he's somebody we all kind of grew out of not too long ago. And, to be fair, a lot of us recently came to the realization that we don't think he's actually that funny; this is part of our larger realization that we can't stand the 90s, and anything from that decade is uncool and lame. (It's partially just the curse of proximity; it's easy to love the 80s, because they aren't too close for comfort. In a few years, the 90s will be far enough gone that we'll suddenly have Nirvana revivals and such.) Also, yes, there are still people around insisting that Kevin Smith is a genius. And that's slightly annoying.

But what I get the feeling people forget here – as in Lady Gaga threads – is what we're talking about. We're not talking about a zeitgeist, we're not talking about some movies you watched in high school, we're not talking about the goofy NJ lingo; we're not talking about comedy, or a comedian, or an actor, or a director, or a screenwriter. We're not talking about a hero to millions, or fanboy-bait, or an irrelevant has-been. We're talking about a human being. No more, no less, and this knee-jerk reducing of a public person to three or four instantly recognizable traits has got to be one of the most insidious evils of our society.

To start off with: Kevin Smith is fat. So the fuck what?

Here, let me tell you a story. The guy I ride to work with every day is fat. He'll say it himself: he's fat. He eats Chik-Fil-A for breakfast and Wendy's for dinner every single day. And you know what? I say that I ride to work with him; what I mean is he knocks on my door every morning and gives me a ride in his car (I don't have one) and never once even mentions gas money – gives me a ride to a great job that he got me, by personally recommending me solely on the basis of the fact that I was the unemployed dude who just moved into our seven-person house. On the way, every time, he offers to buy me breakfast if I want it, and I know for a fact that he won't ask me to pay if I don't have money; he'll pay himself. I've discovered that he's paid the mortgage on more than one occasion for the woman here that owns the house when she was in a bad spot; he bought the huge TV in the living room we all enjoy. He does this stuff without any hesitation, and without ever even acting as though he's contributed. In short: that guy, Tony, is one of the most decent, thoughtful, essentially noble human beings I know of.

So if Kevin Smith is fat, and he has his reasons – either he doesn't work out at all, or he doesn't eat healthy food, or he simply doesn't really feel like it's a priority – I really don't give a damn what they are. Seriously. It is not in any way an indicator of what sort of person he is. And as for his sense of humor, et cetera: I know lots of people who have no sense of humor, and I don't mind them. They're just people. Sometimes they have other qualities that outshine their lack of humor brilliantly; and they can't necessarily make movies, either, but they have worth as human beings.

I begin to think that we should approach everything by first seeking out the good in it, and looking for the benefit it might provide. It's so easy to be hateful, to dismiss things, because it makes us feel as though we've got power; but the really powerful thing to do is to remain silent and listen. I'm clearly no expert in this myself, so I think I'll shut up and do the silent thing now.
posted by koeselitz at 7:05 PM on June 24, 2010 [8 favorites]

I LIKE KEVIN SMITH.





there, i said it
posted by liza at 8:03 PM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]

And, to be fair, a lot of us recently came to the realization that we don't think he's actually that funny; this is part of our larger realization that we can't stand the 90s, and anything from that decade is uncool and lame. (It's partially just the curse of proximity; it's easy to love the 80s, because they aren't too close for comfort. In a few years, the 90s will be far enough gone that we'll suddenly have Nirvana revivals and such.)

I was watching Hellraiser with a commentary track by Clive Barker and some of the stars a little while ago, and Barker mentioned that he (I'm paraphrasing hugely here) basically couldn't watch the movie at all for a few years beginning around its tenth anniversary, but a few years after that he could see past the hair and the effects that hadn't dated well and whatever else and just enjoy it as a movie of its period. I think there's a lot to this, leaving aside any personal associations Barker may have had with his film that put him off it; I mean, I loved The Sopranos in like '99/'00, still think those episodes are great, but I can't actually look at them right now because of all the weird baggage I bring to watching something I saw the first time when I was ten years younger. But I'll watch any piece of shit from like thirty years ago, and it's mostly because of all the period detail -- like, I'll watch some slasher movie from 1982 and all I can look at are the Pepsi cans with the cool old label and Alan Alda on the cover of People in the background of that one shot or a tinny "Ace of Spades" on the soundtrack, because it all adds up to an environment that's fascinating to me, because I was there, but I didn't get to be an adult for any of it, if you follow. More than that, though, there are movies that are just movies, stuff you know was made in 1984 or 1960 or 1945 and you don't care, because the movie's just great and transcends all that.

Anyway, I don't care that he's fat, although I think he'd be wise to lose the weight. I'd be wise to quit smoking, too, and that isn't gonna happen, so that's all I'll say about that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:09 PM on June 24, 2010

this is part of our larger realization that we can't stand the 90s, and anything from that decade is uncool and lame.

You shut your filthy mouth. The 90's are fucking awesome. :P

No, really, I see where you're going with this, and I think I somewhat agree... To an extent. But as somebody who just spent a few weeks ripping his CD collection to mp3 (mostly stuff from 1987-2001), I have to say that I enjoy these albums FAR more than stuff released nowadays. And I will watch Wayne's World a million times over and never get sick of it. :)
posted by antifuse at 6:28 AM on June 25, 2010

this is part of our larger realization that we can't stand the 90s, and anything from that decade is uncool and lame.

Fuck that noise... it's the 00s that's been shit, far better film and music in 90s
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:03 AM on June 25, 2010

You know what? I like Kevin Smith, I think his movies are funny, and I think his podcasts are funny. Why? He seems exactly like the kind of guy I'd *really* enjoy hanging out with and having a conversation. And his podcasts and movies to me are just that: a conversation. And I love that conversation.

He's my favorite director because of that. He doesn't make the best movies, and none of his films are in my top ten (and possibly twenty) of all time, but I always enjoy his films. I enjoy that conversation that we have: similar backgrounds, similar tastes, similar age, similar cultural experiences... these things make up a sort of friendship through the screen. There's a connection in a real sense because of those things. He doesn't know who the fuck I am, but I don't care. He's a likable guy and we'd likely get along nicely.

So it pisses me off when I see people shitting all over the guy because of the inevitable hipster backlash ("CLERKS IS SHIT") and not because anyone has taken the time to fucking watch these films. You guys aren't arguing taste; you're passing value judgments on those who like (or even, heaven forbid, LOVE) Kevin Smith films. Because what you're actually saying is *I'm* awful because I like what he does.

I don't find him egotistical (quite the opposite) or overbearing (I think he's very enthusiastic in conversation and doesn't always notice he's hogging the mic, but when he does notice, he'll be the first to back the fuck off) or puerile or stupid or whatever adjectives you choose.

So get the fuck over yourselves. He took a second to tell his fans he's taken stock and is proud he accomplished something that isn't easy. That, for all the crap he's endured, all the foul and nasty criticism you fucking hipsters and your film critic ilk have thrown at him, he's glad he fucking bothered to enter the business in the first place. And he has every right to feel that way.

Go threadshit elsewhere.
posted by grubi at 7:39 AM on June 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

Go threadshit elsewhere.

You've got to be kidding me.

You like the man's work and you like the man. Fair enough. But that's the only opinion that should be permitted in the thread?

How about: GYOFB.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:15 AM on June 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

But that's the only opinion that should be permitted in the thread?

No. But there's a difference between disagreeing and threadshitting.

Kevin Smith is the Nickelback of what he's actually doing.

...

If this post does stick around then we need to absolutely stack this page with as many critical terms and phrases as we possibly can in as google-friendly a way as we can muster so that sometime tomorrow Smith trips over it while furiously googling his own name.

...

Dude, you're still fucking irrelevant.

That's threadshitting.
posted by grubi at 9:51 AM on June 25, 2010

Fuck that noise... it's the 00s that's been shit, far better film and music in 90s

Dubya fucked up everything, man.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:07 AM on June 25, 2010

So it pisses me off when I see people shitting all over the guy because of the inevitable hipster backlash ("CLERKS IS SHIT") and not because anyone has taken the time to fucking watch these films. You guys aren't arguing taste; you're passing value judgments on those who like (or even, heaven forbid, LOVE) Kevin Smith films. Because what you're actually saying is *I'm* awful because I like what he does.

what, no man

No one is saying that you are awful at all. No one.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:10 AM on June 25, 2010

this thread, similar but different.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:45 AM on June 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

No offense, grubi, but I'm pretty sure Kevin Smith isn't exempt from getting smack talked about him. I'd really like it if the term "threadshitting" went away soon, because it seems to mostly get used anymore by people who get personally offended when people express dislike for the subject of an FPP, and I don't think that was its initial meaning.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:10 PM on June 25, 2010

I did not care for Kevin Smith, or his movies, even before he got fat. His movies I've seen to me reek of a self-absorbed suburbia that takes itself to seriously, surrounds itself with yes-men, and expects too much credit for the contrived and mawkish reflections it shoves in between the cum jokes.
posted by applemeat at 9:14 PM on June 30, 2010