Adjusting the Bar to Hire Outsiders
July 9, 2010 1:44 PM Subscribe
Chinese Outsourcer Seeks U.S. Workers With IQ of 125 and Up. "A Chinese IT outsourcing company that has started hiring new U.S. computer science graduates to work in Shanghai requires prospective job candidates to demonstrate an IQ of 125 or above on a test it administers to sort out job applicants. In doing so, Bleum Inc. is following a hiring practice it applies to college recruits in China. But a new Chinese college graduate must score an IQ of 140 on the company's test. An IQ test is the first screen for any U.S. or Chinese applicant."
They need to raise the IQ req. to 140 for all - it'll sting to the new hires for them to know that they don't honestly measure up. I'd feel pretty crappy.
posted by codswallop at 1:53 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by codswallop at 1:53 PM on July 9, 2010
Oh please don't let China buy us. I shudder to think what my I.Q. is after years of Twitter and the Internet.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:54 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:54 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Peabody here!
Oh please don't let China buy us.
Sherman, set the Wayback machine to... 1988!
Let's see what the latest comment on the MetaFilter BBS (9600 baud!) is...
Oh please don't let Japan buy us.
But I don't have a pun this time.
posted by GuyZero at 1:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
Oh please don't let China buy us.
Sherman, set the Wayback machine to... 1988!
Let's see what the latest comment on the MetaFilter BBS (9600 baud!) is...
Oh please don't let Japan buy us.
But I don't have a pun this time.
posted by GuyZero at 1:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [8 favorites]
i think these kinds of things may be standard practice in high population density environments where systems need to be designed to reject the high volume of applications and where that fact permits a luxury of selectivity. A long time ago I applied for a job with Lotus in India and had to go through an IQ test that was quite extensive. I also had a pleasure of turning down the job of selling Lotus 123 (that hadn't been mentioned in the job posting) with the hiring manager telling me "but but you scored the highest yet and were the only one to differentiate between galleon and gallon"
during that same post graduation job hunting period I had to do an even more complex test at HCL computers... and these were all just sales jobs with engineering as a prerequsite
never made money nor lasted in any big name brand org (short stint at HP) but no regrets
posted by infini at 1:59 PM on July 9, 2010
during that same post graduation job hunting period I had to do an even more complex test at HCL computers... and these were all just sales jobs with engineering as a prerequsite
never made money nor lasted in any big name brand org (short stint at HP) but no regrets
posted by infini at 1:59 PM on July 9, 2010
I love how many of the commenters claim to have the requisite IQ. It's like the pseudo-intellectual version of the Internet Tough Guy phenomenon.
posted by JaredSeth at 1:59 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by JaredSeth at 1:59 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Immediately I thought of all the creepy geniuses I've come into contact with over the years. They're brilliant, they probably have incredibly high IQs, and they creep people out with the weird stuff they say and the weirder things they probably think and do when they're alone.
posted by anniecat at 2:01 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by anniecat at 2:01 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
Any post on metafilter that mentions IQ is filled with comments making veiled or less veiled statements about their high IQ.
posted by joost de vries at 2:03 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by joost de vries at 2:03 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
I always enjoy Internet discussions about IQ because there's always that one guy who chimes in "I scored [IQ value] but who cares; those tests don't mean anything".
posted by crapmatic at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by crapmatic at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
In China, Bleum receives thousands of applications weekly, said CEO Eric Rongley. Rongley is a U.S. citizen who founded Bleum in 2001; his career prior to that included stints working in offshore development in India and later in China.
Uh, this is hardly a "Chinese IT outsourcing" company. For all intents and purposes, Bleum Inc. is an American company that happens to be located in China.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010
Uh, this is hardly a "Chinese IT outsourcing" company. For all intents and purposes, Bleum Inc. is an American company that happens to be located in China.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010
They're brilliant, they probably have incredibly high IQs
I went to a Mensa social gathering once and they were the most uninteresting group of people you ever met. And they were absolutely not brilliant. They all had shitty stupid jobs that you wouldn't wish on an enemy. But they all had high IQs I guess.
posted by GuyZero at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
I went to a Mensa social gathering once and they were the most uninteresting group of people you ever met. And they were absolutely not brilliant. They all had shitty stupid jobs that you wouldn't wish on an enemy. But they all had high IQs I guess.
posted by GuyZero at 2:04 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
Metafilter: they creep people out with the weird stuff they say and the weirder things they probably think and do when they're alone.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:05 PM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:05 PM on July 9, 2010 [19 favorites]
Dummies of the world, uniet!
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I love how many of the commenters claim to have the requisite IQ
This is typical Metafilter. I can't imagine there ever being a thread where someone doesn't chime in to say how they are so smart (though they say in the same breath that being so intelligent has robbed them of being able to put in effort when necessary).
posted by anniecat at 2:07 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Imperfect as it is a measure of anything besides test taking. I sort of agree with it. I would want to hire smart people also. Lesser people are also necessary in some organizations to keep the wheels turning,
posted by Jumpin Jack Flash at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by Jumpin Jack Flash at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010
So the standards are higher for Chinese then they are for Americans? Kind of funny. It seems like a somewhat superstitious hiring practice, though. I don't know that 'generalized' intelligence would translate that well into being good at IT, as opposed to being relatively smart but having a passion for computers.
One example I could think of would be working out a logic problem that involves a family that relies on keeping track of younger and older siblings. Since the Chinese have different words for older and younger sisters and brothers, you would expect a Chinese person to be able to figure it out more quickly.
And of course, if you did something as obvious as doing comparisons of Chinese characters, obviously the Chinese people would do better.
On the other hand, if you had an IQ test written in English that had a significant grammar component or spelling related component I would bet someone from China would have trouble with it even if they spoke English fluently. English grammar is much more complicated then Chinese grammar. And no real "spelling"
posted by delmoi at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010
They need to raise the IQ req. to 140 for all - it'll sting to the new hires for them to know that they don't honestly measure up. I'd feel pretty crappy.Do you think they would prefer being unemployed? Anyway, given the cultural biases that can be present in IQ tests, it would be surprising if an American would do as well on a test written for Chinese by Chinese.
One example I could think of would be working out a logic problem that involves a family that relies on keeping track of younger and older siblings. Since the Chinese have different words for older and younger sisters and brothers, you would expect a Chinese person to be able to figure it out more quickly.
And of course, if you did something as obvious as doing comparisons of Chinese characters, obviously the Chinese people would do better.
On the other hand, if you had an IQ test written in English that had a significant grammar component or spelling related component I would bet someone from China would have trouble with it even if they spoke English fluently. English grammar is much more complicated then Chinese grammar. And no real "spelling"
posted by delmoi at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010
wow, you saw this in just 6 comments???
I thought he meant the article's comments, which are basically what you would expect from an anonymous comments section.
posted by Gary at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
I thought he meant the article's comments, which are basically what you would expect from an anonymous comments section.
posted by Gary at 2:08 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
the most uninteresting group of people you ever met
When we first got Internet access in college (1993), there was no web access, so I spent a lot of time on Newsgroups. I remember being excited when I found the Mensa group. It was wall-to-wall talk about penis size. Pass.
posted by yerfatma at 2:10 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
When we first got Internet access in college (1993), there was no web access, so I spent a lot of time on Newsgroups. I remember being excited when I found the Mensa group. It was wall-to-wall talk about penis size. Pass.
posted by yerfatma at 2:10 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I always enjoy Internet discussions about IQ because there's always that one guy who chimes in "I scored [IQ value] but who cares; those tests don't mean anything".
Thanks for recursing us one level further. Like I just did.
posted by phrontist at 2:11 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Thanks for recursing us one level further. Like I just did.
posted by phrontist at 2:11 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
A pub I worked at hosted a monthly Mensa meeting. The group was despised by the (excellent) waiting staff for being very demanding and very very cheap, especially with tips.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 2:12 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 2:12 PM on July 9, 2010
Uh, this is hardly a "Chinese IT outsourcing" company. For all intents and purposes, Bleum Inc. is an American company that happens to be located in China.
They have offices in the US, but I would actually be surprised if they were an American company - shouldn't they be registered in some tax shelter country? I wasn't able to determine that from the website... in general, how can you tell whether or not a given company is an "American company"?
posted by heathkit at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
They have offices in the US, but I would actually be surprised if they were an American company - shouldn't they be registered in some tax shelter country? I wasn't able to determine that from the website... in general, how can you tell whether or not a given company is an "American company"?
posted by heathkit at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
I am more smarter then you all.
posted by Avenger at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Avenger at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Everyone knows the Asian kids are naturally smarter, right?
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
It's an arbitrary barrier to entry that will inevitably proscribe some talented and able people from working for them. However, the pool of applicants will be large enough that the effect will be negligible, even if it were measurable.
posted by Xoebe at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by Xoebe at 2:13 PM on July 9, 2010
I wonder if any studies of the effect of such hiring practices on corporate culture and mentality have been done.
My non-expert understanding is that scoring well on an IQ test is a good signal of intelligence, but also a very good signal of aptitude in test-taking. Many people who would otherwise be considered smart, or have other usefull mental skills, just don't score as well on IQ tests. By screening based on IQ you are sellecting from a more or less specific group of people, which might lead to an organization with particular idiosyncrasies or blind spots.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:14 PM on July 9, 2010
My non-expert understanding is that scoring well on an IQ test is a good signal of intelligence, but also a very good signal of aptitude in test-taking. Many people who would otherwise be considered smart, or have other usefull mental skills, just don't score as well on IQ tests. By screening based on IQ you are sellecting from a more or less specific group of people, which might lead to an organization with particular idiosyncrasies or blind spots.
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:14 PM on July 9, 2010
I can kinda see it for programming positions - I'd bet the ability to solve the puzzles in IQ tests correlates quite well with the ability to solve pure-logic programming puzzles.
But as a general hiring filter? Might as well use graphology.
posted by Leon at 2:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
But as a general hiring filter? Might as well use graphology.
posted by Leon at 2:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I remember being excited when I found the Mensa group. It was wall-to-wall talk about penis size.
I'll bet those nerds juiced the numbers by measuring in picometers, too.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'll bet those nerds juiced the numbers by measuring in picometers, too.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
They told me my IQ was so unusual it couldn't be measured on the normal scale, but it rated at least two in short planks, which I think is good.
posted by Abiezer at 2:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 2:16 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Once you take the IQ test, do they send you to get a reading from a phrenologist? And then a graphologist?
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Dammit, Leon.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
joost de vries: Any post on metafilter that mentions IQ is filled with comments making veiled or less veiled statements about their high IQ.I don't want to brag about my whopping 83 IQ, but... oooh, sawwwft.
posted by hincandenza at 2:18 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Actually, the comments on the article seemed to quickly degenerate into a series of racist tirades against blacks and latinos who were stealing IT jobs from the commentor. So we can safely assume that the commentor is an unemployed alcoholic who got fired from his job on the help desk at a local ISP because he yelled at an old lady who didn't know what "reboot" meant.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 2:24 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Jimmy Havok at 2:24 PM on July 9, 2010 [3 favorites]
When I was tracked into the special ed program they gave me an IQ test. My IQ was below average but not low enough to require special education.
posted by idiopath at 2:25 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by idiopath at 2:25 PM on July 9, 2010
I once had to sit through a battery of psychological tests for a job I applied for at computer start up, back in the early 90's. It included a long multiple choice test, a lot like what I (dimly) remember as the SAT, as well as a couple of other personality profile exams. It was the first and last time I ever had to go through that level of scrutiny for a job -- one I didn't get, I might add.
posted by crunchland at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by crunchland at 2:27 PM on July 9, 2010
My IQ is an A+!
posted by reductiondesign at 2:29 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by reductiondesign at 2:29 PM on July 9, 2010
Not our comments, infini...those on the article and when I last looked there were three pages of those.
posted by JaredSeth at 2:42 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by JaredSeth at 2:42 PM on July 9, 2010
Daring Taiwanese saboteurs are planting Myers-Briggs test propaganda in Chinese factories as we speak. Imagine a billion INTJs all giving each other back massages.
posted by benzenedream at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Out of curiosity, are there any quality IQ tests online? I mean, besides Metafilter membership.
posted by hanoixan at 2:58 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by hanoixan at 2:58 PM on July 9, 2010
Out of curiosity, are there any quality IQ tests online? I mean, besides Metafilter membership.
As a matter of fact, there is. I have it on good authority that if you can clear this game*, your IQ is no less than 180.
* (Fan-made game by a friend of mine. Freely available and not a virus.)
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:23 PM on July 9, 2010
As a matter of fact, there is. I have it on good authority that if you can clear this game*, your IQ is no less than 180.
* (Fan-made game by a friend of mine. Freely available and not a virus.)
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:23 PM on July 9, 2010
I worked for a company (here in the U.S.) that gave all of its employees an I.Q. test during their interview.
The CFO knew me and hired me directly, so I did not have to take the test. But he did let me know very candidly that he had the highest score in the company so far.
I quit that job within a few months, but I have never, ever worked for a more messed up company. My lunch was routinely stolen, my direct superior liked to stand behind a fake plant and stare into my cubicle for minutes at a time (which I discovered using the CD trick), and when I showed up on my first day, 3 minutes early, I was reprimanded via email for not showing up 5 minutes early in order to "get some coffee and hang up my jacket."
And I don't drink coffee.
The final thing that did it for me was that we were all required to be signed into MSN Messenger, so higher-ups could track whether we were "idle" or not, or something like that.
Or maybe it was the ants falling on my desk all day, shaking the dust off their butts, and going on their merry way.
Or maybe it was the fact that this guy who was so proud of his standing as Chief Genius Officer was a total fraud.
posted by circular at 3:38 PM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
The CFO knew me and hired me directly, so I did not have to take the test. But he did let me know very candidly that he had the highest score in the company so far.
I quit that job within a few months, but I have never, ever worked for a more messed up company. My lunch was routinely stolen, my direct superior liked to stand behind a fake plant and stare into my cubicle for minutes at a time (which I discovered using the CD trick), and when I showed up on my first day, 3 minutes early, I was reprimanded via email for not showing up 5 minutes early in order to "get some coffee and hang up my jacket."
And I don't drink coffee.
The final thing that did it for me was that we were all required to be signed into MSN Messenger, so higher-ups could track whether we were "idle" or not, or something like that.
Or maybe it was the ants falling on my desk all day, shaking the dust off their butts, and going on their merry way.
Or maybe it was the fact that this guy who was so proud of his standing as Chief Genius Officer was a total fraud.
posted by circular at 3:38 PM on July 9, 2010 [9 favorites]
MStPT's comment is more useful than an IQ test. Anyone who downloads and installs a program via a mystery meat URL because somebody linked it on a web forum in a comment including the phrases "I have it on good authority" "a friend of mine" and "not a virus" should probably not be hired for any job involving technology.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:45 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I quit that job within a few months, but I have never, ever worked for a more messed up company.
On the other hand, the comic strip you continue to write about it seems to be working out pretty well, Mr. Adams.
posted by griphus at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, the comic strip you continue to write about it seems to be working out pretty well, Mr. Adams.
posted by griphus at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
After reading all these comments mocking mefites for bragging about their hi iqsies I have decided not to mention my 200 iq.
posted by notreally at 3:50 PM on July 9, 2010
Listen, let's not jump to conclusions about this company's rationality just because g is a fantasy. Maybe their core businesses are arranging shapes into related groups, and selecting antonyms from lists.
posted by No-sword at 4:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 4:06 PM on July 9, 2010 [5 favorites]
I have to laugh.
Supposedly I have an IQ of 136, and I KNOW how smart most of y'all think I am...*rolls eyes*
But really, if you want creative people you want the midhigh I Q scores, from say 120 to 140. Higher than that, people are brilliant but NOT all that creative. Supposedly.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Supposedly I have an IQ of 136, and I KNOW how smart most of y'all think I am...*rolls eyes*
But really, if you want creative people you want the midhigh I Q scores, from say 120 to 140. Higher than that, people are brilliant but NOT all that creative. Supposedly.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:14 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Anyone who downloads and installs a program via a mystery meat URL because somebody linked it on a web forum in a comment including the phrases "I have it on good authority" "a friend of mine" and "not a virus" should probably not be hired for any job involving technology.
All kidding aside, I wouldn't post a link to something that I haven't myself used or even suspected of being malicious.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:32 PM on July 9, 2010
All kidding aside, I wouldn't post a link to something that I haven't myself used or even suspected of being malicious.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:32 PM on July 9, 2010
Workers with IQ of 125 and up? No women?
posted by surrendering monkey at 4:41 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by surrendering monkey at 4:41 PM on July 9, 2010
what
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 4:53 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 4:53 PM on July 9, 2010
So, 125 US IQ = 140 Ch IQ? That's no surprise. China's IQ has been artificially inflated for years to keep a favorable balance of trade. This way, Americans will buy all kinds of cheap and silly imports from China, but the Chinese will be less interested in cheap and silly imports from the US.
posted by Someday Bum at 4:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Someday Bum at 4:58 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
The one MENSA member I ever knew was unkept, worked the same shit phone support job for years, bartended on the side; brewed beer in his living room; and the general consensus amongst his friends was that he had not gotten laid in the decade or so that they had known him.
He was also a chronic weed smoker - one time he opted to smoke up in the bathroom of the bar we were drinking in, rather than walk the 10 seconds to my apartment next door.
The bartender promptly got on the mic to ask "whoever it was" to stop.
When I tried to explain to him that it was my neighborhood bar; that I practically lived there; that I knew the owner and that it might be a better idea to do that at my place next time, he flatly refused and matter-of-factly informed me that he would smoke wherever he pleased.
I un-befriended him right there and then.
I ran into him a couple years later: he had quit his support job to take a vacation for a year with the money he had saved; turns out he had just spent most of the time at home or drinking not too far from there.
Great conversationalist, though.
This tale of sloth and underachievement brought to you by MENSA.
posted by tbonicus at 5:01 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
He was also a chronic weed smoker - one time he opted to smoke up in the bathroom of the bar we were drinking in, rather than walk the 10 seconds to my apartment next door.
The bartender promptly got on the mic to ask "whoever it was" to stop.
When I tried to explain to him that it was my neighborhood bar; that I practically lived there; that I knew the owner and that it might be a better idea to do that at my place next time, he flatly refused and matter-of-factly informed me that he would smoke wherever he pleased.
I un-befriended him right there and then.
I ran into him a couple years later: he had quit his support job to take a vacation for a year with the money he had saved; turns out he had just spent most of the time at home or drinking not too far from there.
Great conversationalist, though.
This tale of sloth and underachievement brought to you by MENSA.
posted by tbonicus at 5:01 PM on July 9, 2010 [4 favorites]
This isn't surprising. IQ measures are generally confined to a specific cultural group when they are meaningful at all.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:18 PM on July 9, 2010
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:18 PM on July 9, 2010
Why would a high IQ necessarily imply high achievement anyway? What would be the point? Advancing human kind's progress? We're malfunctioning assemblies of flesh, bones and tendons and our purpose is to make vague copies of ourselves then die. We're like a thin layer of muck on a sphere of stone wobbling around a mostly empty universe we don't have the faintest idea what it's made of regardless of how hard we try.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
posted by surrendering monkey at 5:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
posted by surrendering monkey at 5:21 PM on July 9, 2010 [6 favorites]
It's tragic that I don't know my IQ even though I've taken that test hundreds of times (I have that triangle question down!). I keep trying to find out my IQ by taking the test on facebook, but it wants me to input my mobile number to get the results, but all I have is a cell phone. I think I'll put in Matt Haughey's number and memail him for my results! I'll probably sign him up for some free ringtones as a thank you.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:25 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by cjorgensen at 5:25 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
How is this surprising? Right now, an American's time is much more valuable than a Chinese person's time, so they can't afford to be as selective.
This would apply for any measure -- free throw average, eyesight, Scrabble ability -- as long as the distribution is the same in both countries, which it presumably is for IQ.
posted by miyabo at 5:36 PM on July 9, 2010
This would apply for any measure -- free throw average, eyesight, Scrabble ability -- as long as the distribution is the same in both countries, which it presumably is for IQ.
posted by miyabo at 5:36 PM on July 9, 2010
If I ever need to know my IQ I just cast the bones of a white deer killed under a new moon and circle the land thrice in salt before a black crow appears to take my question, written down on the flesh of a hanged man, into it's belly to await the judgment of the Large One, who will contact me in three ways, by the sunlight, by the thorns, and by the bleeding of the hours
Seriously it's like you people need to make everything so difficult.
posted by The Whelk at 5:39 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
Seriously it's like you people need to make everything so difficult.
posted by The Whelk at 5:39 PM on July 9, 2010 [7 favorites]
All kidding aside, I wouldn't post a link to something that I haven't myself used or even suspected of being malicious.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing
That's a relief, but I still don't know why I had to give them my bank account # and credit card number for just an IQ test.
posted by 445supermag at 5:53 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing
That's a relief, but I still don't know why I had to give them my bank account # and credit card number for just an IQ test.
posted by 445supermag at 5:53 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
This tale of sloth and underachievement brought to you by MENSA.
I need to send in an application one of these days.
posted by JaredSeth at 6:19 PM on July 9, 2010
I need to send in an application one of these days.
posted by JaredSeth at 6:19 PM on July 9, 2010
I just checked to find out that my 1000th Metafilter comment was a god-damn Dilbert joke. Sigh.
Meanwhile, did we just go through an entire MENSA thread with no one linking to this or this?
posted by griphus at 6:30 PM on July 9, 2010
Meanwhile, did we just go through an entire MENSA thread with no one linking to this or this?
posted by griphus at 6:30 PM on July 9, 2010
Immediately I thought of all the creepy geniuses I've come into contact with over the years. They're brilliant, they probably have incredibly high IQs, and they creep people out with the weird stuff they say and the weirder things they probably think and do when they're alone.
5 things you think will make you happy but won't:
#2 Genius
It sucks for the geniuses too. :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 6:43 PM on July 9, 2010
5 things you think will make you happy but won't:
#2 Genius
It sucks for the geniuses too. :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 6:43 PM on July 9, 2010
It doesn't seem all that different from companies and firms that have strict GPA cutoffs.
posted by gyc at 7:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by gyc at 7:47 PM on July 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Level of scrutiny," that sounds nasty! High IQ, work a year in Shanghai?/ sounds dumb. I would work a year in China teaching English, to absolutely escape my familial responsibilities, make little money, and escape familial responsibilities, ummm sounds smart, and somewhat fabulous.
If I met someone with a high IQ, and they spoke English, it might be great, maybe even some body English, but what about Body Chinese? Do you know anyone that speaks that? Not to get off topic, I am just trying to not mention my IQ, but with Gardner's multiple intelligences, the IQ tests mentioned here are to measure math and linear thought, I am aurally intelligent, a dolphin would have to administer my IQ test. Click, click, click, Bzzzzzeeeeet!
posted by Oyéah at 8:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
If I met someone with a high IQ, and they spoke English, it might be great, maybe even some body English, but what about Body Chinese? Do you know anyone that speaks that? Not to get off topic, I am just trying to not mention my IQ, but with Gardner's multiple intelligences, the IQ tests mentioned here are to measure math and linear thought, I am aurally intelligent, a dolphin would have to administer my IQ test. Click, click, click, Bzzzzzeeeeet!
posted by Oyéah at 8:17 PM on July 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have to say that clearly no one on this thread has ever been involved with attempting to hire people!
The issue is that you have this vast pool of apparently competent candidates. Some of them are obvious stand-outs, but most of them are kind of regular - so how do you tell them apart?
At my previous company, a place that takes hiring extremely seriously and has hired a large number of people, they have a very specific scoring system for interviews, keep track of how people perform subsequently, and do a vast amount of statistical analysis. After all that, it turned out that the interview score was almost no predictor at all of how people subsequently performed.
At least an IQ test gives you something. At least you know if the candidate can manipulate a paper and pencil and symbols and language enough to do better than the average bear.
I don't think it's a good answer at all - I think the answer is, unfortunately, long interviews for each with lots of people from your company and even then a high error rate. (I feel my previous company actually did get a good result from hiring, despite the statistics...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 11:46 PM on July 9, 2010
The issue is that you have this vast pool of apparently competent candidates. Some of them are obvious stand-outs, but most of them are kind of regular - so how do you tell them apart?
At my previous company, a place that takes hiring extremely seriously and has hired a large number of people, they have a very specific scoring system for interviews, keep track of how people perform subsequently, and do a vast amount of statistical analysis. After all that, it turned out that the interview score was almost no predictor at all of how people subsequently performed.
At least an IQ test gives you something. At least you know if the candidate can manipulate a paper and pencil and symbols and language enough to do better than the average bear.
I don't think it's a good answer at all - I think the answer is, unfortunately, long interviews for each with lots of people from your company and even then a high error rate. (I feel my previous company actually did get a good result from hiring, despite the statistics...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 11:46 PM on July 9, 2010
Only 125? The company I work for won't hire you without an IQ of at least 170. It's actually terribly burdensome, being that smart. For one thing, I have to explain to everyone how to measure my penis ("no, transfinite numbers. it means really big"). And I have to keep changing banks, because none of them will carry my account. They all say there's too much money in it. But it's not so bad. One of my three supermodel wives can usually be relied upon to fend off the camera crews.
posted by paultopia at 12:56 AM on July 10, 2010
posted by paultopia at 12:56 AM on July 10, 2010
I've worked for two ridiculously large Chinese companies over the last few years, including one of the largest in IT outsourcing. In both cases the hiring process involved a cup of coffee, a quick conversation and signing a contract. No tests, no papers checked. Which is a shame, as my IQ is at least 5000.
posted by klue at 2:18 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by klue at 2:18 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wonder if any studies of the effect of such hiring practices on corporate culture and mentality have been done.
My non-expert understanding is that scoring well on an IQ test is a good signal of intelligence, but also a very good signal of aptitude in test-taking. Many people who would otherwise be considered smart, or have other usefull mental skills, just don't score as well on IQ tests. By screening based on IQ you are sellecting from a more or less specific group of people, which might lead to an organization with particular idiosyncrasies or blind spots.
Look at the pool of graduates from the Indian Institutes of Technology for example... brilliant test takers, know how to get the highest grades and how to game the systems everywhere to do whatever - that is, horse blinkered obstacle course winners with little or no social skills, no hobbies no personality simply because they've been intensively training for just this one system since puberty
Also IT firms in India do this because, hey, anyone can fake a qualification or credential but you can't fake the test in the hiring company's office
posted by infini at 5:11 AM on July 10, 2010
My non-expert understanding is that scoring well on an IQ test is a good signal of intelligence, but also a very good signal of aptitude in test-taking. Many people who would otherwise be considered smart, or have other usefull mental skills, just don't score as well on IQ tests. By screening based on IQ you are sellecting from a more or less specific group of people, which might lead to an organization with particular idiosyncrasies or blind spots.
Look at the pool of graduates from the Indian Institutes of Technology for example... brilliant test takers, know how to get the highest grades and how to game the systems everywhere to do whatever - that is, horse blinkered obstacle course winners with little or no social skills, no hobbies no personality simply because they've been intensively training for just this one system since puberty
Also IT firms in India do this because, hey, anyone can fake a qualification or credential but you can't fake the test in the hiring company's office
posted by infini at 5:11 AM on July 10, 2010
When they tried to measure my IQ the measuring device broke down *). They weeled in a backup device. The hand of the scale wasn't just off the scale but was all over the place. Their explanation was that my IQ was beyond IQ; on another dimension entirely. Though some dense people might understand it as being just somewhat above average. Then smoke rose up from the device and they had to switch it off.
It's really hard being so smart beyond comprehension of others. Thus you owe me your sympathy. People think I'm an asshole. They fail to comprehend that my lovableness is just on such a high plane that they can't grasp it and misunderstand it as assholeness.
*) dank aan Gerard Reve
posted by joost de vries at 5:22 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's really hard being so smart beyond comprehension of others. Thus you owe me your sympathy. People think I'm an asshole. They fail to comprehend that my lovableness is just on such a high plane that they can't grasp it and misunderstand it as assholeness.
*) dank aan Gerard Reve
posted by joost de vries at 5:22 AM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
delmoi: "English grammar is much more complicated then Chinese grammar. And no real "spelling""
Uh...what makes you say that? I've had to study both English and Mandarin as second languages and neither is more difficult than the other. Chinese doesn't inflect, but it does do some very complicated things with word order and aspect particles to express the same information.
As for spelling, if you speak an English word aloud, I can probably spell it. I'm almost certain to produce something close enough for Google or Spellcheck to correct me. Try that with Chinese.
And then there's classical Chinese. Somewhere on the internet, I've read it described as a few thousand years of high-brow in-jokes each abbreviated to less than four syllables and then thrown together at the speaker's discretion, with bonus points for puns. And if you have to lop off a few syllables here and there to make it flow, that just adds to the artistry, right?
posted by d. z. wang at 9:34 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
Uh...what makes you say that? I've had to study both English and Mandarin as second languages and neither is more difficult than the other. Chinese doesn't inflect, but it does do some very complicated things with word order and aspect particles to express the same information.
As for spelling, if you speak an English word aloud, I can probably spell it. I'm almost certain to produce something close enough for Google or Spellcheck to correct me. Try that with Chinese.
And then there's classical Chinese. Somewhere on the internet, I've read it described as a few thousand years of high-brow in-jokes each abbreviated to less than four syllables and then thrown together at the speaker's discretion, with bonus points for puns. And if you have to lop off a few syllables here and there to make it flow, that just adds to the artistry, right?
posted by d. z. wang at 9:34 AM on July 10, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Any post on metafilter that mentions IQ is filled with comments making veiled or less veiled statements about their high IQ."
posted by Evilspork at 12:35 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by Evilspork at 12:35 PM on July 10, 2010
I have no idea what's going on in the first half of this thread. A bunch of guys commenting on how people who say they're smart on the internet, while somehow coming off like they're trying to sound smarter than them....
posted by tehloki at 5:24 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by tehloki at 5:24 PM on July 10, 2010
*on how people who say they're smart on the internet sound like buffoons
posted by tehloki at 5:25 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by tehloki at 5:25 PM on July 10, 2010
IF THERE WAS EVER A THREAD TO SOUND LIKE A BIG OLD DUMB GUY, YOU SURE PICKED THE RIGHT ONE, TEHLOKI
posted by tehloki at 5:31 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by tehloki at 5:31 PM on July 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is this the thread where we talk about penis size?
They measured mine at school long ago but never told me the results. That's fine with me. It's not so much how big it is but what you do with it that counts.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:39 PM on July 10, 2010
They measured mine at school long ago but never told me the results. That's fine with me. It's not so much how big it is but what you do with it that counts.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:39 PM on July 10, 2010
Interesting. Why would a company with so little to offer think it can be so selective? If you are a super-smart US graduate, wouldn't you want to work for Google in California instead of No-Name-Stressful-Job Inc., in Shanghai?
This just sounds like a publicity stunt -- I estimate they'll find three or four people that are intereseted, and only one that meets their IQ requirement. And that will last about a year, until the new-grad realizes that there is a massive shortage of programmers and that good programmers can pick-and-choose their employer, not the other way around.
Incidentally, IQ tests are not nearly as outrageous as jobs that require a certain credit score.
posted by jrockway at 7:04 PM on July 10, 2010
This just sounds like a publicity stunt -- I estimate they'll find three or four people that are intereseted, and only one that meets their IQ requirement. And that will last about a year, until the new-grad realizes that there is a massive shortage of programmers and that good programmers can pick-and-choose their employer, not the other way around.
Incidentally, IQ tests are not nearly as outrageous as jobs that require a certain credit score.
posted by jrockway at 7:04 PM on July 10, 2010
125 IQ is 95th percentile, which means if there are 100 people in the room, chances are you're not the smartest one there. So if you have an IT degree, most likely you're going to pass that test, since it's a self-selecting field.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 8:23 PM on July 10, 2010
posted by Jimmy Havok at 8:23 PM on July 10, 2010
As for spelling, if you speak an English word aloud, I can probably spell it.
Well, congradulations.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 AM on July 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
Well, congradulations.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 AM on July 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
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