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Every Doctor Who Villain Since 1963
July 19, 2010 9:37 AM   Subscribe


 
Oooh! Thank you! I'm hoping for some new villains in the coming season, or at least the return of some that we haven't seen in a while. I've been catching up on the Sarah Jane Adventures and there have been some interesting challengers in that as well.
posted by chihiro at 9:43 AM on July 19, 2010


When I was 12 years old, if you had told me that the things I did by hand or with Apple IIe's Print Shop in the comfort of my bedroom would now be pretty much exactly what the world was making more pretty and then thrilled with posting and sharing 20-some years later, I would have been much happier as a 13 year old.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:46 AM on July 19, 2010 [3 favorites]


That's hardly fair considering that the old seasons and the new seasons work differently. It should be "per story". Otherwise, the Giant Maggot from the Pertwee story "the giant green glowing maggot superimposed on pictures of disused army bases" (I may have that title slightly wrong) is going to get a much bigger billing than a modern doctor who monster who's appeared in multiple stories.
posted by seanyboy at 9:49 AM on July 19, 2010


...and then I notice the "how many stories total" drop down at the bottom of the visualisation. I'm an idiot.
posted by seanyboy at 9:52 AM on July 19, 2010


I've seen 8% of these. The other 92% I heard about from behind my sofa.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:53 AM on July 19, 2010 [11 favorites]


OK - How come the Autons get a different bubble / number of stories to the Nestene Conciousness?
posted by seanyboy at 9:54 AM on July 19, 2010


The list is lovely and all, but why shove it into such a tiny frame? Right, so it fits into the Guardian's page layout. With that, here is the "liberated" table. Information wants to be free(ly resized)!
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on July 19, 2010 [2 favorites]


Maybe a sign of my young age, but with the capitalizations I read this as a badly constructed "every doctor who has been a villain since 1963"

that would have been more interesting to me. I could swear my childhood doctor was some sort of evil.
posted by heyethan at 9:58 AM on July 19, 2010


(And you can tweak the URL a bit and get an editable view, but I'll leave that to others who really want to muck with the data.)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:00 AM on July 19, 2010


The same friend who linked me to the Guardian chart also linked me up to Have you watched it, hmm?, a counter for totting up how much Classic Who you've seen. I'm at 20% only counting stuff I remember clearly and not shows I know I watched (like pretty much all the Who for the 2 1/2 years I lived in England and am eventually going to rewatch).
posted by immlass at 10:01 AM on July 19, 2010


Serve big bad...Fascist stooge...control humans...

Sounds like my job description.


Back in ye olde early days of the internet I registered and hosted orgron.com, on which I had an awesome picture of an ogron. I was late to renew by less than a @#$% week; some cybersquatter took it and has been wasting it ever since. Oh the sadness...
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 10:02 AM on July 19, 2010


Oddly enough this evil doctor villain has been around since exactly 1963 (sort of).
posted by heyethan at 10:02 AM on July 19, 2010


ogron.com, that is...
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 10:02 AM on July 19, 2010


seanyboy: OK - How come the Autons get a different bubble / number of stories to the Nestene Conciousness?

Series 5 spoilers to come....beware










I'm going to guess that they are counting the Autons most recent appearance but not including the Nestene Consciousness in that one (even though they were mentioned) because we don't actually see them.

This, among other things, makes this list rubbish. Which makes it an excellent MetaFilter post.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:02 AM on July 19, 2010


On more careful view on the whole table, I'm right about that -- as there is a column on one of the displays which shows which villain/monster met which Doctor and one includes the 11th while the other does not.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:05 AM on July 19, 2010


The Nestene Consciousness controls the Autons, but it's a separate creature. It looks like an octopus.
posted by painquale at 10:10 AM on July 19, 2010


The purple circle, the one immediately left of Ice Warriors? Oh yeah baby. Ia! Ia!
posted by JHarris at 10:25 AM on July 19, 2010


Yes, the data on the list is a bit wrongly applied in a lot of ways. I'll give them that since we see Autons in some episodes but not the Nestene Consciousness, maybe you can count them differently.

I mean, if we went by what was said on screen versus what we say, the penultimate episode this series would totally make it pretty much useless. Are we really going to say that the 11th Doctor met the Drahvins and the Terileptils just because they were mentioned?

But my problem with the list is that it doesn't follow its own rules consistencies?

For example, I'll give you that the Great Intelligence only appeared in the Second Doctor stories that also included the Yeti but that the Yeti that was in The Five Doctors wasn't necessarily contolled by The Great Intelligence. However, the dataset has the Yeti battling all five doctors, even though he only ever shared screentime with the 2nd (even in The Five Doctors)

However, this same list has the Master only meeting the 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 10 Doctors when he also shared extensive screentime with the 1st in The Five Doctors and some with the 2nd as well.

What I'm saying is that even though I can suck the fun out of the neatest graphics and I appreciate everyone playing around with stuff like this, datasets and canoncity discussions are best left to people who don't like to have fun. I loved making Top 10 (and Bottom 10) lists detailing which companion was around most, which villains the Doctor fought most, which stories had the most episodes, back when the Internet didn't exist. But now that it does, now that we're sharing this data, we're supposed to come to some sort of agreement on what it all means. And to be honest, I don't really care what other people think.

I'd much rather see the 11th Doctor name dropping villains like he's John Nathan Turner having a seizure than worry about how it's going to affect my list any day of the week.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:27 AM on July 19, 2010 [1 favorite]


Did anybody else parse the post title as "every doctor who is a villain"?
posted by beepbeepboopboop at 10:36 AM on July 19, 2010


Wait they have Rassilon down as appearing twice. However only once does he appear as a villain, and it was an exceptionally stupid story so he should really be absent from the list...
posted by MrBobaFett at 11:00 AM on July 19, 2010


"the giant green glowing maggot superimposed on pictures of disused army bases"

In the shots where they were blowing them up they used condoms.
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on July 19, 2010


More pedant: Should the 4th Doctor really be listed as facing any villain from "The Five Doctors" since his "appearance" consisted of nothing but ten seconds of footage from Shada?
posted by charred husk at 11:50 AM on July 19, 2010


Yeah, like I said, the counting of The Five Doctors is pretty much screwing up the whole list.

I'll take the Rassilon as appearing twice over that.

Also, any list without the Raston Warrior Robot is incomplete.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:01 PM on July 19, 2010


If I had any musical talent whatsoever, I would make this list into a song.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:39 PM on July 19, 2010


PhoBWanKenobi: "If I had any musical talent whatsoever, I would make this list into a song."

Yes, someone make this. I'm imagining an "End of the World As We Know It"-type song, in which the chorus is "Every Doctor Who Villain Since 1963."
posted by roll truck roll at 3:58 PM on July 19, 2010 [3 favorites]


Similar information, different display format: Doctor Who villains infographic, which allows you to select one (or more) villain and find out what percentage of episodes they antagonized Who and crew (via io9).
posted by filthy light thief at 4:51 PM on July 19, 2010


There seems to be some question as to whether Timothy Dalton was playing *the* Rassilon, or whether the Doctor merely called him that as an insult.

If it was the former, then more explanation is necessary, and the script was pretty weak on that count if they really intended him to be *the* Rassilon of old. It was just a throwaway line, which it shouldn't have been if he really was Rassilon.

I mean, if they resurrected Rassilon (OK, he wasn't really *dead* dead, but you know what I mean) for the Time War, that really should have been a Big Fucking Deal, man, which you would expect the writers to try and hammer home.

It would be like showing the President of the USA and he gets killed at the end of the story, but then someone just mentions 'oh by the way' that he was really a cloned George Washington, but it has no bearing on anything and is never discussed.

But then the continuity and general coherency is really lacking in these new scripts. Don't get me wrongo, Doctor Who was never super well written, arguably, but there was a lore that was generally adhered to (thanks Doug). They play fast and loose with that, and you might as well make an entirely different show if that's what you want to do.

Somebody even suggested that the gauntlet Dalton wore was the Hand of Omega... which is fucking stupid since the Hand of Omega was not a glove, but a large stellar manipulator about the size of a coffin.

/nerd
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 3:55 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


I mean, if they resurrected Rassilon (OK, he wasn't really *dead* dead, but you know what I mean) for the Time War, that really should have been a Big Fucking Deal, man, which you would expect the writers to try and hammer home.

I know, it's the biggest problem I have with Dr. Who as well. And I've been a Whovian for three decades. This current incarnation is way, way worse about this crap. Much as I love them for updating things and modernizing some aspects of the show, the reliance on deus ex machina endings that totally, utterly violate everything they've said over the past 40 years really pisses me off. It's like they're trying to make people hate the series. Like the whole "the (mystical! magical!) heart of the TARDIS can fix/destroy/change/set right again everything in the universe!" bullshit. And Rassilon? Why not bust out Omega? Oh, that's right, because the fucking writers have never quite decided whether the Time Lords have Rassilon or Omega to thank for their power. Grr.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:56 AM on July 20, 2010


I hear ya, Civil_Disobedient. I've been watching Doctor Who since about the end of the Pertwee era, I was a wee nipper, so we're probably similar ages. It was a big deal in my house as a kid, along with old reruns of Star Trek, so like you, I'm bothered by this.

Omega? Oh, I bet you he turns up in the next series. There is talk that it was he saying 'silence will fall' or whatever that was, which was not explained, along with why the TARDIS asplode.

Wouldn't be surprised if they bring back the Rani and the Valeyard, too. I suspect they will explain Rani's survival in similar fashion to that of the Master, i.e., not very satisfactorily. They really should not have written that the Doctor was the last Time Lord, because it paints them into a corner. What happened to all the other renegade Time Lords like the Meddling Monk?

They have not adequately explained how the TARDIS has power, now, since its connection to the Eye of Harmony appears to have been severed. I think there was some hand-waving about it drawing power from the rift, or some such. Maybe I missed it, but it is not very adequate.


"the reliance on deus ex machina endings that totally, utterly violate everything they've said over the past 40 years really pisses me off."

It's just lazy, shitty story writing. Part of it is probably that they have to wrap up an entire story in 50 minutes, now, instead of having multiple instalments of 25-30 minute episodes. Really puts the scribes under the gun.

I mean, good science fiction can get away with a fair splash of fantasy and deus ex machina, but it has to have a core of coherence. It's like Marty Feldman's rule of comedy: you can have a skit with four guys dressed as bananas, and never mention it. But if another guy comes on who is *not* dressed as a banana, you have to explain why. Same principle with sci-fi. Continuity is all important.

It all started to go pear-shaped with the Doctor developing abilities that had never been alluded to in the history of the show, like his immaculate transfiguration from the little gnome that the Master turned him into, back into his Tenant form magically fully clothed, the regrown hand, the severed hand that became a clone, various other abilities that are magical rather than alien/technological. True, the Time Lords are resilient and stronger than humans, but a lot of this stuff is just being made up as they go along.

Using the Sonic Screwdriver for.. everything! Now, apparently, it's a scanner! Used to just manipulate technological devices, not give readouts on stuff and heal injuries.

And shitty alien races. Sure, there were some corny ones back in the day, like the giant space bat that Tom Baker went up against at one point, but some of these alien species are just silly. Back in the old days they at least had a stab at creating somewhat believable alien species. Why did they give the Silurians human faces, now? What's wrong with lizard masks? They did the same thing with the Racnoss spider creature, it had a woman's torso stuck on it. Should have been completely non-human. Back in the old days they had aliens that *didn't look like humans* more often than not. Alpha Centauri used to freak me out.

OK, Valentine Dyall with a pigeon stuck on his head was probably not a believable alien costume... ;)

They have adroitly explained some things, however, like how different languages are understood by TARDIS occupants.

I have to say that Matt Smith is very good, though. I was starting to really get sick of Tenant. When I first saw the new casting I cringed, but Smith is much better than I had hoped.

They really have to get back on track with the Master. Firstly, must have a goatee. Secondly, he's not a crazed demented monster leaping about and biting people, he's Moriarty to the Doctor's Holmes. If they can get that much right, they may redeem themselves.

The reason I get so pissed off about it is that Doctor Who contains some really extraordinarily good concepts. The core concepts of the show are actually brilliant.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 7:44 AM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]


Wouldn't be surprised if they bring back the Rani

My co-worker (another avid Who-fan) has been saying this since Eccleston left. They could do it, too, and do it awesome, but they won't.

They really should not have written that the Doctor was the last Time Lord, because it paints them into a corner. What happened to all the other renegade Time Lords like the Meddling Monk?

I've been sayin' the exact same thing since 2005! It was a monumentally stupid plot device. The only thing more stupid than the Last of the Time Lords shit was the AND I WAS THE ONE WHO KILLED THEM! contrivance.

It's just lazy, shitty story writing.

The sad thing is there is some incredibly good writing like Blink or Father's Day that stand heads above the regular, crap episodes. But the problem I have is with their fucking reckless insistence that every fucking season must end with a Grande and Uberfull Season Finale That Shall Eclipse All Other Season Finales For All Time. I just wish for once the last episode of a season could just be a good, well-written episode.

I was starting to really get sick of Tenant. When I first saw the new casting I cringed, but Smith is much better than I had hoped.

I loved Tenant, mostly because I really loved Eccleston and thought there was no possible way they would ever bring someone that natural into the role again and I was so happy to be proven wrong. Also, the whole Doctor/Rose relationship (at the beginning of Tenant's first season) was handled so brilliantly, which made it so painful to watch the writers try and shoe-horn Martha into the "love interest" slot after Piper left. I actually felt uncomfortable watching some of those scenes, like I was watching someone struggle with constipation on a toilet.

Anyway, I have to say I do like the way they're handling humor with Smith's Doctor. It's a lot more subtle and clever than I could have hoped. Now if they can just follow these simple rules, the next season should be fantastic:
  1. No daleks. NONE. All season. No Daleks, no Davros, no Young Davros as a Young Artist, no goddamned "Exterminate!"
  2. Same goes for Cybermen.
  3. Same goes triple for the Master. Unless they can fucking figure out how to do the Master proper, they should just avoid him entirely. "Proper" Master, by the way, means:
    • Not a poof
    • Not the Joker from Batman
    • Not zany or full of mad-capped-irreverence

  4. No Grand Sweeping season finale.
I'm not going to hold my breath.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:37 AM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


The Guardian follow-up on the OP link. Who fandom is full of complete and utter nerds, and I say this with the love of a nerd for my own kind.
posted by immlass at 12:14 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]


The big finale thing is going to be the hardest thing to put back in the box.

I'd settle for something that was big in plot terms rather than big in terms of "ooh, we're going to destroy all of time and space."
posted by Artw at 2:16 PM on July 20, 2010


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