everyday people

July 22, 2010 10:18 PM

Photos of Irish Travellers at Dale Farm, by Susan Craig-Greene.

Earlier this month, 'empty' plots at nearby Hovefields were bulldozed as a warning to the families at Dale Farm. The UK government has until July 30th to reply to a UN request to suspend the planned evictions. (previously and previouslier on Travellers in Britain & Ireland)

posted by shinybaum (14 comments total)

I just put in some random town in the UK property listings and holy cow, 200,000 quid for a little 2 bedroom flat? And it's not even anywhere near the big cities? If I was living over there and wasn't fortunate enough to have gone to university I suspect I'd be stuck in a trailer on Dale Farm, too, even with the money I'm making.
posted by crapmatic at 11:02 PM on July 22, 2010

Congratulations on your first MeFi front page post!
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:01 AM on July 23, 2010

Just perusing the wiki article on Travellers, because of this post, and noticed that they cited this article: 50% of Travellers die before 39.
posted by IvoShandor at 2:45 AM on July 23, 2010

crapmatic: I just put in some random town in the UK property listings and holy cow, 200,000 quid for a little 2 bedroom flat? And it's not even anywhere near the big cities? If I was living over there and wasn't fortunate enough to have gone to university I suspect I'd be stuck in a trailer on Dale Farm, too, even with the money I'm making.

No, you wouldn't. While the average house price in Britain is an insane £224,064, that really isn't relevant here. You'd be eligible for public housing, which is what the UK government (and, in Ireland, the Irish government) is trying to get Travellers into - either through long negotiations, or forcing their hands with evictions that leave them no other options. The problem is not that houses are not available for them; the problem is that they do not want to live in them because it isn't part of their culture.

It's incredibly complicated. These are nomadic people. They do not settle; they roam - after a week, a season, or five years. You can't just let them have some land and leave them to it; we've tried this with halting sites in Ireland which are statutorily required and it isn't helping much. On the one hand, these are a tiny and extremely oppressed, dying minority; on the other hand, it's a sub-culture that is anathema to most of the dominant culture and difficult to accommodate.

In general, we're talking about a group of people that come with serious issues because they are essentially a counter-culture. There's a huge amount of crime and violence and little regard for education, employment, medical care, veterinary care, or public health and safety. The litter and cleanup costs can be huge for private landowners or councils when Travellers decamp. There are also some wonderful and fascinating aspects of the culture but people generally are inclined to overlook that when they illegally setup camp in the middle of roundabouts on public motorways, for example.

There are many, many problems around Travellers on both sides of the issue but one of them really isn't "they can't afford houses."
posted by DarlingBri at 3:40 AM on July 23, 2010 [19 favorites]

Good first post, shinybaum!

More background from the Dale Farm Housing Association at the Advocacy Project.
posted by madamjujujive at 4:15 AM on July 23, 2010

I don't think we're going to come up with solution to the Travellers problem here (great comment DarlingBri). Getting back to the photos - they're great.
posted by unliteral at 4:46 AM on July 23, 2010

"No, you wouldn't. While the average house price in Britain is an insane £224,064, that really isn't relevant here. You'd be eligible for public housing, which is what the UK government (and, in Ireland, the Irish government) is trying to get Travellers into..."

Not that there is much public housing left. Lots of it was sold, and hardly any new public housing has been built.
posted by marienbad at 5:15 AM on July 23, 2010

For more check out Travellors Times. The more "romantic" Horse Drawn Travellors way of life is fading into the past. This is another informative site.
posted by adamvasco at 7:01 AM on July 23, 2010

Interesting stuff. My sister-in-law and her husband live on a farm in Co. Laois in Ireland... They very much do not like travellers.
posted by antifuse at 7:40 AM on July 23, 2010

And oh MAN are those photos ever stereotypical travellers. Wow.
posted by antifuse at 7:42 AM on July 23, 2010

And oh MAN are those photos ever stereotypical travellers. Wow.

What the.
posted by I_pity_the_fool at 8:49 AM on July 23, 2010

What the.

Exactly. See also: Irish Traveller Wedding Photos on Google Images.
posted by antifuse at 10:07 AM on July 23, 2010

I_pity_the_fool: What the.

Yeah see, Travellers tend to confound outsiders.

Traveller girls are commonly married at 16, although that is changing now. Their style of dress is often very sexualised by mainstream standards and meant to attract attention (and a husband), but at the same time there are extremely strict moral rules and supervision operating in the culture. The absolute expectation is that they will be virgins when they marry, and I'd guess (but it's a guess) that the teens in that photo are sister and brother.

The Sun (no really) has a fairly balanced look at dating and weddings, and costume is definitely a big part of that.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:23 AM on July 23, 2010

Yeah see, Travellers tend to confound outsiders.

I was a grad student myself in Dublin in 1994, and I was interviewing a bunch of traveller girls for an article. I _thought_ I was doing really well; they were chatty and forthcoming and I was being as engaged and nonjudgmental as I knew how to be.

Then they asked my age ("23") and whether I was married ("No, but I have a boyfriend in Australia.")

"What, and your husband let you travel here on your OWN?"

I could not think of a single thing to say.
posted by rdc at 11:45 AM on July 23, 2010