Comments on: Comments on 9505

Post number 9505

Tin Man — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 19:20:10 -0800

1 Mayor, 2 Guys, 1 Shih Tzu. NY Times columnist Frank Rich reports that NYC mayor Rudy Giuliani -- a Republican -- has been bunking frequently at the home of a gay couple as he goes through his divorce. "Has the mayor picked up any pointers on gay life? 'I taught him a lot of expressions... He didn't know what a Friend of Dorothy was.' " Tee hee. (Log in as metafi/metafi.)

By: dhartung

dhartung — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:44:20 -0800

I saw this on a political rumors site a few days ago -- but no article. So help me God, all I can think of is Stuart and Carter (and Rich notes the similarity) ... down to the funny dog. Then the "20 pillows" episode reminded one of Sex and the City where the gay character finds out his new boyfriend likes dolls ... and likes them more than boyfriends. I'm sure this is being worked into sketch comedy even as we speak.

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:54:25 -0800

Joseph Bruno :" Hillary Clinton really needs to speak with you, Rudy." Rudy Giuliani : " What that girl scout needs is ankle lypo and a little angora to defrost that ace queen look she's working. Navy cake don't pick itself up, sister." Joseph Bruno: " Uh............ I'll tell her you said 'hi." "Rudy!" the sit-com will be called. Check your local listings.

By: dincognito

dincognito — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:56:04 -0800

I'm sure this is being worked into sketch comedy even as we speak. "That's my Jerk"?

By: Steven Den Beste

Steven Den Beste — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:22:27 -0800

I confess that I also don't have any idea what a "friend of Dorothy" is. Sigh, am I out of it. Sheesh.

By: Tin Man

Tin Man — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:43:10 -0800

Dorothy = Judy Garland. "Friend of Dorothy" = gay person. -- a public service announcement from MetaFilter Queers

By: tsitzlar

tsitzlar — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:02:55 -0800

Apparently I am even more out of it than Steven, because Tin Man's explanation did not help me in the least. I was already pretty sure about the meaning, and I know who Dorothy is, but I still fail to see the connection. Help?

By: rebeccablood

rebeccablood — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:06:35 -0800

gay men *adore* judy garland. and barbra streisand. and liza minelli. that whole diva thing.

By: Tin Man

Tin Man — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:13:03 -0800

well, i don't think *all* of us do... i mean, i can still sorta appreciate them, but i don't adore them. i think it's more of an older-generation gay thing.

By: Tin Man

Tin Man — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:14:07 -0800

...despite the fact that my nickname is that of a friend of dorothy.

By: rebeccablood

rebeccablood — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:15:05 -0800

well, of course, not *all*. but I do know several gay men in their 30s (too young to have seen these women in their prime or anything) who *adore* them. and have since they were children. I've always thought that was really interesting. so, I guess it's a cliche, but it's a cliche that is sometimes true.

By: Steven Den Beste

Steven Den Beste — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:32:46 -0800

That phrase made me flash on the phrase "Surrender Dorothy" written in smoke, but I figured that wasn't related. (I really am out of it.) Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

By: gleemax

gleemax — Sat, 04 Aug 2001 23:47:11 -0800

I adore Judy Garland, but I hate Barbra Streisand. Does this mean I'm bi-sexual?

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:11:40 -0800

Not if it's the Giant Killer Mecha Barbara Streisand from South Park.

By: suprfli

suprfli — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 01:10:27 -0800

i think it's funny that the person who answers the "what is a friend of dorothy" question has the nic tin man. am i the only one who got a chuckle out of that? =) tin man or others: i have to admit that i thought i had heard just about everything but friend of dorothy is something i have never heard. i'm sure there are a million but what are some of the other sayings or phrases that are used in the gay community that you think people may not be as familiar with? i'd be interested to learn about them.

By: Mo Nickels

Mo Nickels — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 06:37:41 -0800

A few years ago, I worked at an ad agency that did the publicity for the annual Wizard of Oz show held at Madison Square Garden. It's usually a pretty big show, with a number of non-Broadway B actors (like Roseanne) to help fill the seats. The idea is to make it as much of an annual tradition as the Christmas show at Radio City, so they really hype it on all the media. Anyway, among the promotional items that year were several hundred thousand big, round buttons, the kind with the safety pin fastener in the back, imprinted with a beautiful full-spectrum rainbow and the words, "I'm a Friend of Dorothy." The client didn't get it, but everyone else did (including folks at the ad agency). Those badges weren't distributed for long.

By: Tin Man

Tin Man — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:48:10 -0800

i think it's funny that the person who answers the "what is a friend of dorothy" question has the nic tin man. Actually, it wasn't a coincidence... one of the reasons I use that nickname online (not just on MetaFilter, even) is because of the "friend of Dorothy" allusion. what are some of the other sayings or phrases that are used in the gay community that you think people may not be as familiar with? i'd be interested to learn about them. Here's a couple that come to mind: "queer" -- sort of a catch-all term for anyone who's not heterosexual, be they gay, bisexual, straight with gay leanings, gay with straight leanings... sort of covers the whole spectrum. It's one of those terms that used to be derogatory but has since been appropriated by the targets of the word themselves (sort of like ni---r in the African-American community). "gaydar" -- the uncanny ability of many queer people to intuitively realize that someone else is queer: "I had no idea he was gay! He totally escaped my gaydar." I tried to find a good online gay glossary, but couldn't...

By: bradlands

bradlands — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:59:48 -0800

From The Atlantic Monthly: The Queen is Dead. "Once a gay icon, Judy Garland has become an embarrassment..." I didn't read completely through it again, but IIRC, this article also touches on a bit of history: The Stonewall Riots, popularly cited as the spark that launched the modern gay liberation movement, are themselves said to have been fueled by the gay community's grief over the death of Judy Garland. That idea may or may not be apocryphal, but the two events were adjacent in time.

By: suprfli

suprfli — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:26:45 -0800

tin man: i didn't mean to imply it was a coincidence. i just thought it was funny that the first person to respond to the friend of dorothy question had the nic of tin man. it could've been jack, jim, bobby or sue but the first response was from the tin man. maybe i'm the only one who thought it was funny. =)

By: dhartung

dhartung — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:33:58 -0800

tsitzlar, it all really dates back to when gays had to remain closeted. First, there were no "out" gays to take as role models, so gay men tended to gravitate toward women singers and actresses instead. The role of Dorothy was a big adventure for a girl, which probably had strong appeal to non-macho men, who weren't interested in cowboy or gangster stories. Second, gays had to remain very careful about whom they revealed information to, because it could ruin someone's career or worse. Using a neutral phrase like "a friend of Dorothy's" allowed gays to socialize cautiously. It was simply one of many such euphemisms. Thankfully, post-Stonewall, much of this has changed. Some of the old customs seem quaint. Some younger gays are actually embarassed by what their older cohort got into. Now, just don't go confusing friends of Dorothy with friends of Bill W. .... (though there may well be overlap, at least among those I've known)

By: bradlands

bradlands — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 13:11:32 -0800

Some younger gays are actually embarassed by what their older cohort got into. For some of the "older cohort", the feeling is more than mutual. ;-)

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:55:59 -0800

Your handy online gay lexicon.

By: tsitzlar

tsitzlar — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:04:43 -0800

Thanks, everyone. I am much more enlightened now.

By: Tin Man

Tin Man — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:54:32 -0800

Your handy online gay lexicon. I have to say, most of the terms in that lexicon are new to me... wow. And actually, most of them don't seem gay-related at all... nevertheless, I'm going to have to try to work autagonistophilia into my everyday conversations a bit more often.

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:27:20 -0800

I think we all do, Tin Man. My personal favorite is "Navy cake."