One of these things is just a bit unlike the others:
August 22, 2001 7:34 AM Subscribe
One of these things is just a bit unlike the others: The Wired Rave Awards (whatever they are) category list includes a "Cultural Innovator" category to select a person who is "changing our creative landscape. A talent whose work has a profound effect on our culture." The names:
- Ang Lee, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
- David Chase and James Gandolfini, The Sopranos
- Evan Williams, Blogger
- Hironobu Sakaguchi, Final Fantasy
- Thomas Krens, Director of Guggenheim Museums Worldwide
May I be the first to say: Holy fucking congratulations, Ev!
(Knowing Wired, I bet he'll win, too!)
And kudos to Wired for sponsering a contest that honors what really matters: what's frickin' cool! (I voted for the Titanium G4 laptop...)
posted by tweebiscuit at 7:40 AM on August 22, 2001
(Knowing Wired, I bet he'll win, too!)
And kudos to Wired for sponsering a contest that honors what really matters: what's frickin' cool! (I voted for the Titanium G4 laptop...)
posted by tweebiscuit at 7:40 AM on August 22, 2001
lol, i just came from evan's site before coming here, and when i had read about the awards, i was like, "huh?" (as opposed to being like, "weeeee!"). don't see how the sopranos has "a profound effect on our culture," though.
posted by lotsofno at 7:41 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by lotsofno at 7:41 AM on August 22, 2001
I voted for David Chase & Co.
Blogger is good but the Sopranos are better :-)
(BTW, most of my votes in the other categories went to the Titanium G4 laptop.)
posted by kchristidis at 7:57 AM on August 22, 2001
Blogger is good but the Sopranos are better :-)
(BTW, most of my votes in the other categories went to the Titanium G4 laptop.)
posted by kchristidis at 7:57 AM on August 22, 2001
This is going to be like when Jethro Tull won a music award in the "Heavy Metal" category. The presenter is going to be like "Evans who? Blogger what?"
And next year, Ang Lee will win something and he'll get up on stage and say he owes it all to Evan Williams for not writing another program this year.
posted by RustyBrooks at 8:06 AM on August 22, 2001
And next year, Ang Lee will win something and he'll get up on stage and say he owes it all to Evan Williams for not writing another program this year.
posted by RustyBrooks at 8:06 AM on August 22, 2001
I really don't want to be provocative (because I'm posting here since three days, and because I know that this is not the right place to be provocative), but... how come that americans always forget that there's actually a world of cultural innovators out there?
posted by fabrizio at 8:09 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by fabrizio at 8:09 AM on August 22, 2001
Got it, I'll move to Mars with a bunch of european cultural innovators ;-)
posted by fabrizio at 8:23 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by fabrizio at 8:23 AM on August 22, 2001
Because we're talking about our own culture. I'm sure their are plenty of cultural innovators in India, but Wired magazine obviously doesn't care about them, because it's a magazine about American culture. If it tried, it wouldn't be an American magazine anymore. This is like criticizing astronomy journals for focusing on the sun so much, when there are so many other suns in the universe...
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2001
The Sopranos as agents of change of the cultural landscape? How? Because the show has singlehandedly and exponentially increased the number of times acts of unrepentant violence and the word "fuck" are seen and heard on television in a given week? Because more nitwits are walking around saying stupid things like "fuggedaboutit" in daily conversation? That's just wrong on multiple levels.
I love Blogger, and it has given a voice to many. I loved CTHD, and Ang Lee did create an incredible vision. But for every Blogger user and everyone who saw CTHD, I'd bet that there are three or four whose lives have been enriched by art and the efforts of those who work diligently to preserve the viability and accessibility of physical artistic endeavor in the era when multimedia reigns -- Thomas Krens would get my vote.
posted by Dreama at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2001
I love Blogger, and it has given a voice to many. I loved CTHD, and Ang Lee did create an incredible vision. But for every Blogger user and everyone who saw CTHD, I'd bet that there are three or four whose lives have been enriched by art and the efforts of those who work diligently to preserve the viability and accessibility of physical artistic endeavor in the era when multimedia reigns -- Thomas Krens would get my vote.
posted by Dreama at 8:36 AM on August 22, 2001
Clearly you are all cultural imperialist pigs and hateful bigots for failing to recognize, and then lionize, the agents of cultural change in my culture.
Who can forget the many achievements of my right index finger? Or the recent, and much-lamented, development of a mole on my left shoulder -- possible harbinger of cancer and all the changes that would ensue?
I demand that my culture be recognized throughout Sri Lanka and Andorra, and that many award ceremonies be held (and covered extensively in the media), lest these nations openly reveal themselves to be the inwardly-focused self-aggrandizing imperialists we all know them to be.
...there is a whole world in me, and I demand that it be recognized.
posted by aramaic at 9:07 AM on August 22, 2001
Who can forget the many achievements of my right index finger? Or the recent, and much-lamented, development of a mole on my left shoulder -- possible harbinger of cancer and all the changes that would ensue?
I demand that my culture be recognized throughout Sri Lanka and Andorra, and that many award ceremonies be held (and covered extensively in the media), lest these nations openly reveal themselves to be the inwardly-focused self-aggrandizing imperialists we all know them to be.
...there is a whole world in me, and I demand that it be recognized.
posted by aramaic at 9:07 AM on August 22, 2001
Because we're talking about our own culture?
tweebiscuit, let me get this straight, Crouching Tiger is American culture? Is that funny accent in the film Mid-west or just impenetrable New jersey? Suns that aren't the Solar System's (or should I say America's) are called stars and I do believe astronomers have been interested in them for quite some time.
posted by Zootoon at 9:11 AM on August 22, 2001
tweebiscuit, let me get this straight, Crouching Tiger is American culture? Is that funny accent in the film Mid-west or just impenetrable New jersey? Suns that aren't the Solar System's (or should I say America's) are called stars and I do believe astronomers have been interested in them for quite some time.
posted by Zootoon at 9:11 AM on August 22, 2001
I don't know... I just wish it said Pyra Labs or something.
I like Evan a lot, but it seems wrong to give him sole credit for Blogger.
Didn't stop me from giving him my vote, tho!
posted by Jako at 9:14 AM on August 22, 2001
I like Evan a lot, but it seems wrong to give him sole credit for Blogger.
Didn't stop me from giving him my vote, tho!
posted by Jako at 9:14 AM on August 22, 2001
how come that americans always forget that there's actually a world of cultural innovators out there?
*Jumping on grenade*
I, kafkaesque, do hereby gladly give my life to curtail another pointless diatribe about Americans.
Thank you and good night.
btw, aramaic, that was HILARIOUS!
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:22 AM on August 22, 2001
*Jumping on grenade*
I, kafkaesque, do hereby gladly give my life to curtail another pointless diatribe about Americans.
Thank you and good night.
btw, aramaic, that was HILARIOUS!
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:22 AM on August 22, 2001
For ever byte of culture Blogger has given to the masses there are a hundred Giga-Bytes worth of bad poems, dead links, discussions about Radiohead, posts about someone's breakfast, rants by confused Vegitarian teenage girls, and links back to Kottke.org.
Blogger has done way more harm than good.
Ricki Lake would get my vote.
posted by bondcliff at 9:24 AM on August 22, 2001
Blogger has done way more harm than good.
Ricki Lake would get my vote.
posted by bondcliff at 9:24 AM on August 22, 2001
Can I drop a turd in the punchbowl [(c) Dave Winer] and note that this is yet another bit of publicity for Blogger courtesy of Conde Nast...
posted by holgate at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by holgate at 9:29 AM on August 22, 2001
Damn. I thought the odd one out was the museum guy.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:37 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by andrew cooke at 9:37 AM on August 22, 2001
For ever byte of culture [...] there are a hundred Giga-Bytes worth of [junk]
well, as a poster of occassional junk on my weblog (including awful poems and descriptions of food), I don't see why that's "more harm than good."
if you are meaning to create art/culture, then sometimes it's good to ramble - to write a lot of bad stuff so you've gotten it out of the way.
if you are just a "confused Vegitarian teenage girl" - then now you've got an outlet, which probably no-one will read except for your friends, through which you can puzzle through your thoughts about life.
are the works of anais nin or james boswell eternally damaged by the existance of journals with teddy bears on the cover?
maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think (even bad) 'blogs are (or could be) a good thing for human expression in general. I sometimes check out the recently posted on Blogger, and even the "awful" ones remind me that there's a lot of people out there, a lot of fertile brains moving through the world.... in a weird way, I feel more connected to my fellow humans.
and if occassionally a weblog produces art/culture (the Shakespeare of 'blogging?) - then it's just a bonus.
posted by epersonae at 9:42 AM on August 22, 2001
well, as a poster of occassional junk on my weblog (including awful poems and descriptions of food), I don't see why that's "more harm than good."
if you are meaning to create art/culture, then sometimes it's good to ramble - to write a lot of bad stuff so you've gotten it out of the way.
if you are just a "confused Vegitarian teenage girl" - then now you've got an outlet, which probably no-one will read except for your friends, through which you can puzzle through your thoughts about life.
are the works of anais nin or james boswell eternally damaged by the existance of journals with teddy bears on the cover?
maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think (even bad) 'blogs are (or could be) a good thing for human expression in general. I sometimes check out the recently posted on Blogger, and even the "awful" ones remind me that there's a lot of people out there, a lot of fertile brains moving through the world.... in a weird way, I feel more connected to my fellow humans.
and if occassionally a weblog produces art/culture (the Shakespeare of 'blogging?) - then it's just a bonus.
posted by epersonae at 9:42 AM on August 22, 2001
Confused vegitarian teenage girls should not have an outlet. They should be locked up, force fed spotted-owl burgers and baby seal kabobs, and brainwashed until they realize what a farce N-Sync is.
To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke, Giving teenage girls an outlet for free expression is like giving teenage boys whisky and car keys.
posted by bondcliff at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2001
To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke, Giving teenage girls an outlet for free expression is like giving teenage boys whisky and car keys.
posted by bondcliff at 9:54 AM on August 22, 2001
tweebiscuit, let me get this straight, Crouching Tiger is American culture? Is that funny accent in the film Mid-west or just impenetrable New jersey?
CTHD is American culture insofar as it's been presented to the population of America. It's a mental object that exists in the minds of American people. People in America know about it. Wired is limiting itself to "things people in America use, see, experience, and know about." Being that it's an American magazine, I don't see the problem with this. Are they supposed to honor an artist or innovator who has no effect whatsoever on their readership?
I agree that America is a bit too culturally imperialistic, but aren't we asking a bit much by demanding that the entire world be recognized by a magazine whose scope is basically American?
(and sorry, the sun analogy was bad. Think about it this way: we make a big deal about when the sun is going to blow up. We don't care so much about Betelgeuse, because it has a far lesser impact on us. See my point?)
posted by tweebiscuit at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2001
CTHD is American culture insofar as it's been presented to the population of America. It's a mental object that exists in the minds of American people. People in America know about it. Wired is limiting itself to "things people in America use, see, experience, and know about." Being that it's an American magazine, I don't see the problem with this. Are they supposed to honor an artist or innovator who has no effect whatsoever on their readership?
I agree that America is a bit too culturally imperialistic, but aren't we asking a bit much by demanding that the entire world be recognized by a magazine whose scope is basically American?
(and sorry, the sun analogy was bad. Think about it this way: we make a big deal about when the sun is going to blow up. We don't care so much about Betelgeuse, because it has a far lesser impact on us. See my point?)
posted by tweebiscuit at 9:58 AM on August 22, 2001
By the way -- why the hell is Final Fantasy on this list? There hasn't been a halfway decent Final Fantasy game since 1994.
posted by tweebiscuit at 10:02 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by tweebiscuit at 10:02 AM on August 22, 2001
I don't think CTHD should be on the list, if anyone, it should be Jackie Chan, because Chan is the man. Before "Rumble in the Bronx" and "Supercop," Americans really were disinterested with Chineese movies and culture. Jackie Chan revitalized that interest, and since then, I have seen more and more Americans appreciating Chineese culture for what it is. CTHD is a really good movie, don't get me wrong, but wasn't it Chan that brought the East to the West for the second time (the first being Bruce)?
Blogger rules!
posted by Uncle Joe's Brother at 10:03 AM on August 22, 2001
Blogger rules!
posted by Uncle Joe's Brother at 10:03 AM on August 22, 2001
an apples-and-oranges category like this makes no sense. it's like the martial arts freaks who debate on end the outcome of a match between a karate master versus an akido master, or a judo black belt against a samurai, or....wait a minute...
my vote goes to final fantasy
posted by jedwin at 10:53 AM on August 22, 2001
my vote goes to final fantasy
posted by jedwin at 10:53 AM on August 22, 2001
For ever byte of culture Blogger has given to the masses there are a hundred Giga-Bytes worth of bad poems, dead links, discussions about Radiohead, posts about someone's breakfast, rants by confused Vegetarian teenage girls, and links back to Kottke.org.
GOD I am *so* sick of this "get off my web" attitude. Don't like a blog on how dreamy ricky martin is, don't read it. or quit googling ricky. The web is an open medium, god bless it, and your going to have to take the giggling vegetarians along with the metafilters. geocites caught this before blogger, and aol before that. You can hate the content slop-troughs if it pleases you, but they are just one side of a very lovely coin; and perhaps one of those self-publishing bad poets will be next year's allen ginsberg. 90% of EVERYTHING is crap, as is proved regularly by the Super Crown sales bin. Why should the web be an exception?
God bless the back button.
posted by christina at 11:28 AM on August 22, 2001
GOD I am *so* sick of this "get off my web" attitude. Don't like a blog on how dreamy ricky martin is, don't read it. or quit googling ricky. The web is an open medium, god bless it, and your going to have to take the giggling vegetarians along with the metafilters. geocites caught this before blogger, and aol before that. You can hate the content slop-troughs if it pleases you, but they are just one side of a very lovely coin; and perhaps one of those self-publishing bad poets will be next year's allen ginsberg. 90% of EVERYTHING is crap, as is proved regularly by the Super Crown sales bin. Why should the web be an exception?
God bless the back button.
posted by christina at 11:28 AM on August 22, 2001
So what you're saying is, I'm correct in stating that 90% of the blogs out there are crap?
Thanks for backing me up.
posted by bondcliff at 11:42 AM on August 22, 2001
Thanks for backing me up.
posted by bondcliff at 11:42 AM on August 22, 2001
I'm just interested to know exactly how much "Ricky googling" is going on out there, if you know what I mean.
nudge nudge
k
(owner of an extremely trivial weblog that will probably never win diddlyshit)
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:46 AM on August 22, 2001
nudge nudge
k
(owner of an extremely trivial weblog that will probably never win diddlyshit)
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:46 AM on August 22, 2001
Tired Wired ------ ------- Ang Lee Cheh Chang David Chase and James Gandolfini Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen Hironobu Sakaguchi LeveLord Blogger FTP Thomas Krens Mark Frauenfelderposted by internetgeniuses at 11:50 AM on August 22, 2001
If the amount "Ricky googling" is anywhere close to the amount of "naked slut Chandra Levy" googling that goes on and brings traffic to my site (see this Google cache of what I had up for a while in response) the good, er, bad, er, hmm, something for Ricky. Gah.
posted by Dreama at 11:55 AM on August 22, 2001
posted by Dreama at 11:55 AM on August 22, 2001
So what you're saying is, I'm correct in stating that 90% of the blogs out there are crap?
Thanks for backing me up.
Don't forget, that means 90% of everything you post here is crap too, bondcliff.
No, thank you for backing me up.
posted by mathowie at 12:02 PM on August 22, 2001
Thanks for backing me up.
Don't forget, that means 90% of everything you post here is crap too, bondcliff.
No, thank you for backing me up.
posted by mathowie at 12:02 PM on August 22, 2001
Shows what you know. 100% of what I post is crap. The amazing part is that people still respond to it.
posted by bondcliff at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2001
posted by bondcliff at 12:22 PM on August 22, 2001
Saying Blogger does more harm than good is ridiculous. You don't hear people bitching about that stupid invention called the printing press because of the latest "Unauthorized N'SYNC Biography."
Life is what you make of it. Content is what you create. Don't like it? Do better.
posted by the bob at 12:26 PM on August 22, 2001
Life is what you make of it. Content is what you create. Don't like it? Do better.
posted by the bob at 12:26 PM on August 22, 2001
(commence childish chanting)
Fight, fight, fight, fight!
posted by aramaic at 12:27 PM on August 22, 2001
Fight, fight, fight, fight!
posted by aramaic at 12:27 PM on August 22, 2001
Au contraire, The Bob, you obviously haven't seen my rants over at alt.printing.press.nerdswhotakeeverythingtooseriously.binaries.erotica
posted by bondcliff at 12:33 PM on August 22, 2001
posted by bondcliff at 12:33 PM on August 22, 2001
Didn't we cover the "good blog, bad blog" issue last summer? Talk about tired.
posted by Hackworth at 1:16 PM on August 22, 2001
posted by Hackworth at 1:16 PM on August 22, 2001
'how come that americans always forget that there's actually a world of cultural innovators out there?'
'Because we're talking about our own culture. I'm sure their are plenty of cultural innovators in India, but Wired magazine obviously doesn't care about them, because it's a magazine about American culture'
Europe often embraces American culture long before it does itself. This is a process that doesn't much happen in reverse.
posted by Kino at 2:55 PM on August 22, 2001
'Because we're talking about our own culture. I'm sure their are plenty of cultural innovators in India, but Wired magazine obviously doesn't care about them, because it's a magazine about American culture'
Europe often embraces American culture long before it does itself. This is a process that doesn't much happen in reverse.
posted by Kino at 2:55 PM on August 22, 2001
"changing our creative landscape. A talent whose work has a profound effect on our culture"
WTF?!?
A profound effect?
I must have missed a memo or something. One of these people is the new Mr. Wired 2.0 Jesus H. Christ? What, do they shit gold or walk on water? Kung-fu grip?
These choices suck. Then again, Wired really sucks, so what the hell?
posted by estopped at 5:36 PM on August 22, 2001
WTF?!?
A profound effect?
I must have missed a memo or something. One of these people is the new Mr. Wired 2.0 Jesus H. Christ? What, do they shit gold or walk on water? Kung-fu grip?
These choices suck. Then again, Wired really sucks, so what the hell?
posted by estopped at 5:36 PM on August 22, 2001
I'm intrigued.
How does a bad chinese movie change culture as we know it? How does a bad TV show do the same? Why is anyone taking these awards even just a little bit seriously? Why does anyone take ANY of these types of awards seriously? Are we so insecure that we can't make up our minds what's good or bad about something without affirmation from others? Why do I keep asking these questions? Why am I here? Why am I not a teenage vegetarian girl?
posted by Option1 at 8:01 PM on August 22, 2001
How does a bad chinese movie change culture as we know it? How does a bad TV show do the same? Why is anyone taking these awards even just a little bit seriously? Why does anyone take ANY of these types of awards seriously? Are we so insecure that we can't make up our minds what's good or bad about something without affirmation from others? Why do I keep asking these questions? Why am I here? Why am I not a teenage vegetarian girl?
posted by Option1 at 8:01 PM on August 22, 2001
Why am I not a teenage vegetarian girl?
You mean to say you ain't, Option1? Damn. I'm gonna have to fall back on Option2 then. Stand back everyone.. I've used up all the three-ply.
posted by Kino at 11:06 PM on August 22, 2001
You mean to say you ain't, Option1? Damn. I'm gonna have to fall back on Option2 then. Stand back everyone.. I've used up all the three-ply.
posted by Kino at 11:06 PM on August 22, 2001
You mean to say you ain't, Option1? Damn. I'm gonna have to fall back on Option2 then. Stand back everyone.. I've used up all the three-ply.
There is no Option2. And now it looks like there's no three-ply.
However, if it makes everyone feel better I'll be a teenage vegetarian girl for the rest of the week. Provided of course that they name the next Star Wars movie after me...."Star Wars, Episode III - I was a Teenage Vegetarian Girl"
Now where's my roast beef....oops, fried falafel...ummm, zucchini.
posted by Option1 at 11:42 PM on August 22, 2001
There is no Option2. And now it looks like there's no three-ply.
However, if it makes everyone feel better I'll be a teenage vegetarian girl for the rest of the week. Provided of course that they name the next Star Wars movie after me...."Star Wars, Episode III - I was a Teenage Vegetarian Girl"
Now where's my roast beef....oops, fried falafel...ummm, zucchini.
posted by Option1 at 11:42 PM on August 22, 2001
Here.. Quit pushing that tomato around your plate with a fork and try a hearty plate of Pork Brains in Milk Gravy, 'It's hard to make it out from the picture, but the stock recipe so thoughtfully provided by Armour is called "Scrambled Eggs and Brains.".
posted by Kino at 12:30 AM on August 23, 2001
posted by Kino at 12:30 AM on August 23, 2001
*sigh* Stop trying so hard, WIRED, and just give up already..
posted by valerie at 10:37 AM on August 23, 2001
posted by valerie at 10:37 AM on August 23, 2001
> Europe often embraces American culture long before it
> does itself. This is a process that doesn't much happen
> in reverse.
Except, oddly, for mainstream British movies, where if they're a hit in the US first, then they stand a much better chance of being a hit in the UK afterwards.
posted by kerplunk at 5:48 AM on August 24, 2001
> does itself. This is a process that doesn't much happen
> in reverse.
Except, oddly, for mainstream British movies, where if they're a hit in the US first, then they stand a much better chance of being a hit in the UK afterwards.
posted by kerplunk at 5:48 AM on August 24, 2001
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posted by tranquileye at 7:40 AM on August 22, 2001