I wouldn't have got off my estate dressed like this
October 14, 2010 4:57 AM   Subscribe

The English Defence League, a group protesting against 'Islamification of Britain', planned a march through Leicester (a city with a sizeable Asian population) this weekend. The town braced itself for riots. What happened was somewhat different.

(To save you Googling and potentially ending up on some dubious sites, more details about the halal protest mentioned in the article. To my shame, I am from Blackburn - like Leicester it has a big Muslim population, many of whom run the takeaways and kebab shops in local neighbourhoods.)
posted by mippy (120 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
What a load of perfect perishers.
posted by atrazine at 5:02 AM on October 14, 2010


People should have opened windows and pissed down on those racist motherfuckers.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:08 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


"See, I knew you'd laugh. Everyone laughs. It's not easy being called Anakin Allcock."

This is how the hatred spreads, generation to generation. Parents, do not give your children "clever" names; they may well end up crazed and embittered, taking their frustration out on anyone they can.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:09 AM on October 14, 2010 [9 favorites]


He's a bit reluctant to give his name. Understandable in the circumstances. Not everyone wants to out themselves as EDL.

"No, it's not that," he insists. "It's just that my name's a bit, um, well, embarrassing."

Embarrassing?

"If I tell you, promise you won't laugh," he says.

Promise.

"My dad was a massive, massive Star Wars fan, so he named me... Anakin, after Luke Skywalker's dad.

"See, I knew you'd laugh. Everyone laughs. It's not easy being called Anakin Allcock."

posted by Faint of Butt at 5:11 AM on October 14, 2010 [5 favorites]


Anakin Allcock? No wonder he's pissed off.
posted by Pazzovizza at 5:11 AM on October 14, 2010 [6 favorites]


That's the thing, isn't it, GenjiandProust? If he were named Anakin Smith or Anakin Davidson, he'd have been fine. But Allcock? The poor guy was doomed from the start.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:13 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


"The EDL's Plymouth division has brought the biggest flag. They've spent five-and-a-half hours in a car to be here today and, oh dear, they've forgotten where they parked it."

"See, I knew you'd laugh. Everyone laughs. It's not easy being called Anakin Allcock."

"Disgusting," complains her friend. "I don't really understand what any of this is all about, but I know it means we can't play bingo."

"I've been stuck here about an hour and I only came out to buy a pint of milk."
posted by KirkJobSluder at 5:14 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


Somewhere in the Tea Party, Darth Nocock breaths a sigh of understanding.
posted by Tavern at 5:15 AM on October 14, 2010 [95 favorites]


Parents, do not give your children "clever" names; they may well end up crazed and embittered, taking their frustration out on anyone they can.

This is true and it is the only thing preventing me from naming my future children with a naval disasters theme; if I had a boy and a girl I would name them Edmund Fitzgerald Pterodactyl and Andria Doria Pterodactyl and then we could name the dog PT109. I guess my plan is just too brilliant for this petty, narrow-minded world.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:19 AM on October 14, 2010 [36 favorites]


The English Defence League: a protest movement whose destination is a prefabricated cul-de-sac of police and metal at the unlovely end of town. Caught up in their very own persecution complex; isolated, impotent, unseen by most of Leicester and, by the finish, flaring up at one another.

[nelsonmuntz]Ha ha![/nelsonmuntz]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:19 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


> They're here to take a stand, says one, clutching a can of Stella, full of beer-blown indignation.

If the tea partiers were treated with this sort of insight and deference in the US press, one wonders how popular they would have become.
posted by ardgedee at 5:25 AM on October 14, 2010 [15 favorites]


I'm in favour of the English Defence League.

If someone else were to suggest that England's most stupid and least pleasant people were to rounded up in one place and watched closely by police we would protest the loss of civil liberties.

But if they choose to do it themselves? It's tough for Leicester, for sure. But on the flipside I would imagine pubs, football grounds and high streets in Plymouth, Bradford etc were probably quite pleasant places for the duration of the march.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:29 AM on October 14, 2010 [12 favorites]




I hate Leicester nazis.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:32 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


If the tea partiers were treated with this sort of insight and deference in the US press, one wonders how popular they would have become.

To be fair, the Tea Partiers are a bit (a bit) more subtle than these guys, who appear to be parading around yelling, "Oi, get these filthy Moors out of my country!"
posted by uncleozzy at 5:34 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mrs. Pterodactyl: I have a sinking feeling about your family if you give kids those names.
posted by mephron at 5:35 AM on October 14, 2010 [8 favorites]


But Allcock? The poor guy was doomed from the start.

I met an insurance sales guy named Richard Allcock. Older guy. He went by Dick. I asked him about that - well, said his name like a question. He laughed. Said it was bad in school, but now it was a great for business - how could you forget a name like that?
posted by anti social order at 5:36 AM on October 14, 2010 [6 favorites]


I hate Leicester nazis.

Be fair: they were in Leicester, not from Leicester.
posted by Grangousier at 5:40 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Just read the first few paragraphs of this - it's rather purple for a provincial local paper isn't it?

That's not to say I'm not enjoying it.
posted by Ted Maul at 5:43 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


Mrs. Pterodactyl, pay no attention to the small-minded scoffers. I think your plan is titanic.
posted by steambadger at 5:45 AM on October 14, 2010 [9 favorites]


This YouTube video is one of the most terrifying ones of the riot that I've seen.

I hate Leicester nazis.

As Grangousier said, it's important to realise that many (probably the vast majority) of the EDL supporters in Leicester on Saturday do not live in Leicester.
posted by mattn at 5:47 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


He has a wife, you know. She's called... Padme.
Padme Buttocks.
posted by condour75 at 5:55 AM on October 14, 2010 [23 favorites]


"We ain't racists". Or Nazis. They are forging links with the Tea Partiers.

I saw a photo somewhere of some of 'em burning an anti-nazi flag. Hmmm. While back they were marching in London, it was all over twitter with the EDF mob boasting that they had "more ethnics" in their group than Unite Against Fascism did. "Ethnics".

People should have opened windows and pissed down on those racist motherfuckers.

I love the idea, but when the likely consequence is my house getting smashed up (if I'm lucky..) maybe not so much.
posted by Infinite Jest at 5:56 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


To be fair, the Tea Partiers are a bit (a bit) more subtle than these guys

Yeah, tea cozies just bring loaded assault rifles.

By the way, I don't know if anyone has been calling them that yet, or if I just invented it, but that's what they are from now on to me: Tea cozies. Like tea crazies, but more diminutive.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:01 AM on October 14, 2010 [7 favorites]


They come here with their extremism, taking over, making nuisances of themselves, driving people away. And yes, perhaps we are prejudiced, but they should bugger off back to where they came from.

That seems to be general mood among the locals as the build-up to all this begins few hours earlier.


It's a well-worn joke, but I still laughed.
posted by tomcooke at 6:02 AM on October 14, 2010


"What's that, constable?"
"No guv, not me. I'm a man of peace"
"I'm a pick-axe handle salesman. Just making a delivery."
"Yes, actually it is urgent. There are some people that are desperately in need of these"
posted by atrazine at 6:04 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


So what's the problem with halal chicken, exactly? I may be ignorant, as all I know of Islam is from a history of Islam class and that episode of 30 Days, but I'm pretty sure Dhabihah doesn't involve the application of poison to the animal.

Are people also protesting kosher delis? "I should have the right to get mortadella here! Don't tell me I have to go elsewhere for my bologna!"
posted by giraffe at 6:05 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: stuck here about an hour and I only came out to buy a pint of milk.
posted by Splunge at 6:06 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


The town braced itself for riots. What happened was somewhat different.

Sorry, just re-read the OP and spotted this line. To be clear: the town braced itself for a riot, and what happened was a riot.

The EDL managed to break through police lines (explained in this Sky News video) before rampaging through the city fighting on the streets, damaging property and terrorising innocent people. Looks like a riot to me.
posted by mattn at 6:07 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


The irony of angrily marching around protesting the "Islamification" of anything, is.
posted by DU at 6:08 AM on October 14, 2010


They way this was previewed on local television you would have imagined the actual Nazis were invading. I particularly liked the shots of a bloke cutting up wood to board up his shop.

The head of the EDL was interviewed - I'm sure they loved that free publicity - mainly about the involvement of a number of football hooligan firms in his 'organisation' He said he was proud of the fact that such disparate groups has come together for his cause.

Apparently is was the biggest police mobilisation in the area since the miner's strike. I don't want to get all Daily Mail but who the fuck is paying for that? The EDL?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:10 AM on October 14, 2010


"We're all for private enterprise and religious values. Except when private enterprise tries to make money catering to Jewish and Muslim values."

I've noticed the same thing when economic conservatives gripe about bilingual phone answering systems.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:12 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


So what's the problem with halal chicken, exactly?

Because the animals throat is cut rather than say a bolt fired through its head or being shocked some people consider it's cruel. Well that's the excuse for racism anyway.

Interestingly there was a bit on the BBC the other week revealing that a lot of meat is now slaughtered this way (like the majority coming out of NZ) as it just makes it easier to sell (as you know that you can sell it to Muslims and non-Muslims alike - It just doesn't get labelled as such to the customer in the (non halal) supermarket
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:16 AM on October 14, 2010


This site is not racist
This is not a racial group


I'm just pleased to know that you can avoid being something just by telling people that you're not doing that thing, and then doing it.

"I'm not drink driving."

"It's just that you're driving. And you're drunk."

"This isn't drink driving."

"You just vomited on yourself a little."

"I'm not drink driving."

"You are actually literally downing a bottle of sherry right now."

"Guym bob gring gribing."
posted by dudekiller at 6:17 AM on October 14, 2010 [20 favorites]


So what's the problem with halal chicken, exactly?...Are people also protesting kosher delis?

My point exactly, really. With all the hysteria over halal I was actually surprised ot read a while ago that kosher methods of slaughter are similar. Although we don't have so many Jews over here (500,000 total I believe) - certainly not in east Lancashire. Many of the protesters would eat from their local (halal) takeaway, which will serve beef pepperoni on pizzas, and for a long time we had no Dominos, Pizza Hut or KFC in the town so unless your pizza or chicken came from the supermarket it was pretty much halal. Or protest against a chain that doesn't have a great record with animal welfare. Unless you are vegetarian or boycott fast food chains, it's hard to see how it isn't a racist protest.

dudekiller - I'm not being funny when I say that if someone says 'I'm not a racist but...' they're about to say something enormously racist.
posted by mippy at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Tabloid Watch, Press Not Sorry on the halal chicken thing. Innocent-Brits-Secretly-Force-Fed-Halal-Food is a Daily Mail staple.

The Press Not Sorry article points out that in the UK "85% of animals slaughtered for halal meat are pre-stunned." It's more of a Fear of the Other issue than an animal welfare issue.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:30 AM on October 14, 2010


After we get rid of ugly racism, by the way, next on the list should be the practice of making each sentence its own double-spaced paragraph.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:39 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


He has a wife, you know. She's called... Padme.
Padme Buttocks.


I'm shaking my head from side to side because I can't quite work out the best way to share the information that among his list of friends on Facebook, you will find Padme Allcock.
posted by daveje at 6:39 AM on October 14, 2010 [4 favorites]


"I hate Leicester nazis."

As Grangousier said, it's important to realise that many (probably the vast majority) of the EDL supporters in Leicester on Saturday do not live in Leicester.


I could be wrong, but I took Thorzdad's comment to be in reference to the classic line from The Blues Brothers...

"I hate the Illinois Nazis."
posted by autocol at 6:42 AM on October 14, 2010


"85% of animals slaughtered for halal meat are pre-stunned."

They are shown the front page of the Mail.
posted by pracowity at 6:42 AM on October 14, 2010 [11 favorites]


Annakin Allcock is on Facebook.
posted by MrMoonPie at 6:44 AM on October 14, 2010


Out-of-town rioters angry about "the others" taking over their towns. I hope that some casual acquaintances will explain the irony of this situation to the EDL. Please, for my sake, because it worries me that they can't see the themselves as the thing they fear in the slightest.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:51 AM on October 14, 2010


I'm not being funny when I say that if someone says 'I'm not a racist but...' they're about to say something enormously racist.

It's the bullheaded refusal of the obvious that I find interesting here. The "but" in the normal formulation works as a kind of tacit admission that they know what they're saying is racist. Here it's just NOPE! Nuh-uh! Not racist!
posted by dudekiller at 6:52 AM on October 14, 2010


Well I'll be dropped in lava, there she is. I know you can send people little gifts on Facebook -- do they have an e-kebab? Because someone should send the Allcocks a shitload of e-kebabs.
posted by condour75 at 6:55 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


"I don't really understand what any of this is all about, but I know it means we can't play bingo."

Indeed.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:03 AM on October 14, 2010


The video isn't available on the web that I can find, but a while ago I saw this fascinating documentary called 100% English, where a bunch of My family goes back to 1066, I'm THAT English types voluntarily submitted to genetic testing... and found out just how diverse their family's ancestry actually was. What's that, Russian Grandfather? North African Cousins? Part Gypsy?

I say, Alfric. Shocking development...

The most English of them all was this enervated, inbred, chinless Tory politician whose grandfather may have gotten as far as France for WWI, but the rest of the family had just stayed on the island as far back as anyone could remember.

He looked about as diseased and inbred as a pedigree show dog.

Keep swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool, y'all. Those recessive traits are just the price for purity.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:03 AM on October 14, 2010


Among all the great bits in this article, I liked how the only happy guy in town was the police vehicle enthusiast.

I wish the US' crazies got coverage like this.
posted by Zed at 7:05 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


I hope that some casual acquaintances will explain the irony of this situation to the EDL. Please, for my sake, because it worries me that they can't see the themselves as the thing they fear in the slightest.

A guy I went to school with e-mailed me a few years ago. Among other news, he told me he considered standing as a BNP councillor 'because I was worried about immigrants coming in and using our taxes' but 'I went to a meeting and realised they were quite racist'. At this time, he was working as a roofer, cash-in-hand, which means avoiding paying tax on earnings.

I stopped being his friend on Facebook when he invited me to a group called 'BRITAIN IS FULL!!!!!! - CLOSE THE DOORS NOW!!!!' It was stretching my adherence to the belief that with knowledge and experience people change.
posted by mippy at 7:10 AM on October 14, 2010


a bunch of My family goes back to 1066, I'm THAT English types

Ha! Mine goes back to the Viking invasion. NORSEFIRE etc. Except not, because I'm also part Irish, and I'm going out with a Scotsman because I like celtic miscegenation.
posted by mippy at 7:11 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


english defence league? bah. evisu defence league more like.
posted by iboxifoo at 7:14 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


Anakin Allcock is on Facebook.
He likes: Star Wars, the EDL, and Sex and the City!?
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 7:21 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Well I'll be dropped in lava, there she is.

You can do some facebook digging and find a page where the plymouth crew (for it is them) talk about the article, losing the car, and anakin getting interviewed by a journo. So, bizarre as it may seem, there really does appear to be an EDL member called Anakin Allcock, whose wife changed her name to Padme Allcock. Another example of life's rich pageant.
posted by daveje at 7:22 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Are people also protesting kosher delis?

I once saw a Spanish tourist angrily demand to know how a bagel shop could fail to have bacon. A kosher bagel shop.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:26 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


I stopped being his friend on Facebook when he invited me to a group called 'BRITAIN IS FULL!!!!!! - CLOSE THE DOORS NOW!!!!' It was stretching my adherence to the belief that with knowledge and experience people change.

"If you have a racist for a friend, now's the time for the friendship to end."
posted by acb at 7:30 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


They're here to take a stand, says one, clutching a can of Stella, full of beer-blown indignation.

Hilariously, Stella Artois is marketed in the States as a mildly upscale "imported beer." A UK friend boggled at the sight of a crowd of hipsters buying Stellas one night. "At home we call it 'Wife-beater'," she said.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:36 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


"It's brilliant this," he beams, taking photographs of anything with a siren. There are 12 to 15 police forces here today and they've all brought their vehicles.

It's people like this who make me genuinely proud to be British.
posted by Coobeastie at 7:38 AM on October 14, 2010 [9 favorites]


I could be wrong, but I took Thorzdad's comment to be in reference to the classic line from The Blues Brothers...

"I hate the Illinois Nazis."


I knew that, but the point of the piece was the nazis were coming in from out of town, and that the people of Leicester were bewildered and not sympathetic. Hence, unfair comparison.
posted by Grangousier at 7:43 AM on October 14, 2010


Make a balm in the kitchen of your mom.
posted by pracowity at 7:44 AM on October 14, 2010


Somewhere in the Tea Party, Darth Nocock breaths a sigh of understanding.

I just wanted to repeat this because it made my fucking day.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:45 AM on October 14, 2010


octobersurprise: That's the secret extra bonus irony for the hipster who drinks Stella. And we all know that irony makes things taste better.
posted by Grimgrin at 7:45 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


fearfulsymmetry : Because the animals throat is cut rather than say a bolt fired through its head or being shocked some people consider it's cruel. Well that's the excuse for racism anyway.

Not like industrial slaughterhouses look all that much better, but a foot-long bolt-through-the-brain beats bleeding to death from a neck wound. And I'd say the same thing about "kosher" meat, which does the same thing.

And don't leave out the "forced tithing" angle - I have absolutely zero interest in paying a religious overseer to make sure my food obeys their imaginary friend's rules, and yet, good luck getting non-kosher mass-produced food in the US. Fortunately Halal hasn't gotten so popular that you can't avoid it yet, but that day doesn't look far off.

Look at it from a different angle - If you had to give the pope (substitute the Dali Lama if you happen to consider yourself Catholic) a penny for every meal you ate, would you consider that just fine and dandy, or would you consider it extortion in support of a religion you don't practice? And the irony here, they can only get away with that because we count as a mostly secular culture; Imagine the outcry if we really believed anything, at having to support "the enemy"?
posted by pla at 7:46 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]




Hilariously, Stella Artois is marketed in the States as a mildly upscale "imported beer."

Only a few beers years back Stella was advertised in the UK as "reassuringly expensive" with Jean de Florette style TV ads. No idea what happened to that.
posted by criticalbill at 7:49 AM on October 14, 2010


I once saw a Spanish tourist angrily demand to know how a bagel shop could fail to have bacon. A kosher bagel shop.

There's (or there was) a bagel shop in Shoreditch, not particularly near Brick Lane, which called itself Brick Lane Bagels and sold bacon bagels. A double insult, I felt, to the 100-year-old Jewish bagel shops in Brick Lane.
posted by criticalbill at 7:51 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


> Hilariously, Stella Artois is marketed in the States as a mildly upscale "imported beer."

"She Is A Thing Of Beauty". Rarely have the quality of the advertising and the product being advertised diverged so wildly.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:54 AM on October 14, 2010


..good luck getting non-kosher mass-produced food in the US. Fortunately Halal hasn't gotten so popular that you can't avoid it yet, but that day doesn't look far off.

Most food sold here is non-Halal and non-kosher. Some large supermarkets carry Halal lines with their Asian products, and Asian butchers and takeaways will provide/serve Halal meat. That's it. It's pretty darn easy to avoid. When I was in the US (admittedly ten years ago) it was easy to get bacon, ham, and non-kosher alcohol all over the place. (Also, I eat kosher houmous sometimes because it's really nice.)
posted by mippy at 7:57 AM on October 14, 2010


Only a few beers years back Stella was advertised in the UK as "reassuringly expensive" with Jean de Florette style TV ads. No idea what happened to that.

They went from a rustic style to French New Wave. It's still looking pretty fancy (though nothing compared to Peroni ads here, which could be spliced into Fellini movies without nayone noticing.)
posted by mippy at 7:58 AM on October 14, 2010


Racist douchebags running wild in the streets, needing a solid boot in the teeth.

Where's Vidal Sassoon when you need him?
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:59 AM on October 14, 2010 [6 favorites]


"Rarely have the quality of the advertising and the product being advertised diverged so wildly."

You've never driven an American car?

Anyway, I thought Stella was for the hipsters who'd gotten tired of PBR and wanted to be able to taste what they were paying for.
posted by at by at 8:01 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


And don't leave out the "forced tithing" angle - I have absolutely zero interest in paying a religious overseer to make sure my food obeys their imaginary friend's rules, and yet, good luck getting non-kosher mass-produced food in the US. Fortunately Halal hasn't gotten so popular that you can't avoid it yet, but that day doesn't look far off.

So, to be clear, your objection is that other people haven't put in the effort to start an enterprise that reaches out specifically to you, and you feel oppressed because you aren't willing to do without the product these religious overseers provide.

Good luck with that.
posted by KathrynT at 8:02 AM on October 14, 2010 [5 favorites]


Annakin Allcock is on Facebook.
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:44 AM


I sent him a message! :)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:03 AM on October 14, 2010


>>I once saw a Spanish tourist angrily demand to know how a bagel shop could fail to have bacon. A kosher bagel shop.

There's (or there was) a bagel shop in Shoreditch, not particularly near Brick Lane, which called itself Brick Lane Bagels and sold bacon bagels. A double insult, I felt, to the 100-year-old Jewish bagel shops in Brick Lane.

We took a young British friend of our son's on an energetic tourist walk of the Diamond District in NY - ending up in some "colorful" diamond dealers' kosher cafe for breakfast- and the poor kid asked for a toasted bacon sandwich.

The boy instantly realized his mistake (and was absolutely mortified - hands clapped over mouth, spluttered apologies) - though the guy at the counter just grinned. So I later sent the kid a roll of bacon-decorated sellotape (as a jolly joke). His mother later informed me she didn't think my gift was remotely funny.

(rather like this anecdote!)
posted by Jody Tresidder at 8:10 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


As an American, I find Stella absolutely delicious and am happy to report that it is most often nestled amongst the other pricey imports in your grocer's beer aisle.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:12 AM on October 14, 2010


Not like industrial slaughterhouses look all that much better, but a foot-long bolt-through-the-brain beats bleeding to death from a neck wound.

The whole point of kosher slaughter is to render the animal quickly unconscious, thus lessening it's suffering -- there have been abuses of this in specific slaughterhouses, but they are contrary to the ethical obligation against cruelty that is at the root of the Jewish approach to animal slaughter. In the meanwhile, putting a bolt through the brain spatters brain matter into the meat, and is one of the big reasons for the spread of mad cow disease. The "halal and kosjer slaughter methods are cruel" was a very popular talking point for English racists and antisemites a few years ago -- some sample comments from a post on the subject, which I will not link directly to, because I have no desire to support these people by sending traffic their way:

"We are not a multicultural nation by choice, it has been forced on us by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Everyone here in the UK should be bound by UK law. There should be no exceptions for Muslims and Jews who require their meat to be killed by cruel methods. If they don’t want to do this they should leave the UK."

"Here, by the way, is an interesting article I read today which presents the case that the English are effectively being “ethnically cleansed” in their own country by the naive policies of multiculturalism which were introduced without their approval."

One should be cautious with one's accusations. It is fine to complain about specific slaughterhouses, although singling out Jewish or Muslim ones when the whole industry is grotesque and heartless would be a bit sketchy. But you're, no doubt accidentally, duplicating the hateful rhetoric of the very people being discussed in the thread.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:20 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


You would think the EDL would actually hold the Union Jack the right way up. But nooo.
posted by randomination at 8:20 AM on October 14, 2010 [4 favorites]


Got this confused with EDF for a second and was disappointed that giant ants weren't swarming through Leicester.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:31 AM on October 14, 2010


KathrynT : So, to be clear, your objection is

...Wha??? Not even close.

I object to my having to pay someone else's priesthood (and for me, that would mean any priesthood), simple as that.

I object to the cost of the frickin' ink to print a tiny little "K"-in-a-diamond on the label. These things have no value whatsoever to me, yet I have to pay for them (or make pretty much everything I eat and drink from scratch).


Astro Zombie : The whole point of kosher slaughter is to render the animal quickly unconscious, thus lessening it's suffering

And 2000 years ago (hell, 200 years ago), I would agree with you 100%, a quick cut across the throat and bleeding out sure as hell beats what someone could do to kill an animal (for example, the way certain southeast asian countries will hang a live dog so its hind feet just barely touch the ground, thus slowly strangling it over the course of hours).

We don't, however, live in the bad ol' days anymore (in the Western world, anyway). We can pull a trigger and the animal ceases to feel pain before it can even register the "click" of the bolt-gun.
posted by pla at 8:32 AM on October 14, 2010


This bunch of ignorant racist gobshites is starting to seem somewhat less organised and intimidating than the National Front were, when i was a lad. That's encouraging.
posted by Decani at 8:35 AM on October 14, 2010


"and yet, good luck getting non-kosher mass-produced food in the US."

I love the way that you don't ever let facts get in the way of indignation.
posted by klangklangston at 8:39 AM on October 14, 2010


The best part is that England is an incredibly shockingly white country. I, an immigrant, learned this from taking and passing the English residency test.

If you remove London from the equation it is almost as white as those deplorable little cracker towns in the south of the U.S. that most people, even in England, believe are abhorrent.

The EDL is fighting battles against what it thinks is a muslim tide and really it is, at worst, a fart in a football staduim.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on October 14, 2010


I object to the cost of the frickin' ink to print a tiny little "K"-in-a-diamond on the label. These things have no value whatsoever to me, yet I have to pay for them (or make pretty much everything I eat and drink from scratch).

Yes, exactly. You have alternatives you choose not to exercise. You're not paying for the religious beliefs of others, you're paying for the convenience of having people who aren't you prepare your food.
posted by KathrynT at 8:39 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


When I saw this, I thought, "English Defense League? Not another bunch of prescriptivist wankers!"
posted by klangklangston at 8:40 AM on October 14, 2010 [5 favorites]


I object to the cost of the frickin' ink to print a tiny little "K"-in-a-diamond on the label. These things have no value whatsoever to me, yet I have to pay for them

I don't look at nutritional labels for the majority of food products I buy, yet I don't complain about the ink used to print them.

Presumably the increase in sales by people eating Kosher products is more than the cost of the tithes and extra ink required to certify their products - so the manufacturer is making more money by selling it as kosher. Incidentally, making money is why they produce food, not to personally supply you with nutrients.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:40 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


It took a global war where the Fascists tried to take over the world to let the steam out of Sir Mosley and the BUF back in the late thirties.

What do we have coming up to kick facism out of favour now?
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:40 AM on October 14, 2010


Yeah, the bolt method isn't without its problems either. Not sure why you think it's a better alternative.

Warning: extremely distressing.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:40 AM on October 14, 2010


"These things have no value whatsoever to me, yet I have to pay for them (or make pretty much everything I eat and drink from scratch)."

You know, there's a whole world of food beyond matzo and corned beef. And yeah, it's terrible that Coca-Cola's regular recipe no longer uses beef tallow, so it's kosher all year long (except for passover, when it tastes better).
posted by klangklangston at 8:47 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


I object to the cost of the frickin' ink to print a tiny little "K"-in-a-diamond on the label.

I object to the cost of the ink used to print the word "Funyuns."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:03 AM on October 14, 2010 [3 favorites]


"We are not a multicultural nation by choice, it has been forced on us by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown Oliver Cromwell. Everyone here in the UK should be bound by UK law. There should be no exceptions for Muslims and Jews who require their meat to be killed by cruel methods. If they don’t want to do this they should leave the UK."

FTFY
posted by acb at 9:06 AM on October 14, 2010


From the article:

"...Stephen has the hots for cars and vans that go nee-na."

I lol'd. :D
posted by Pecinpah at 9:07 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


Do not feed the troll kosher Funyuns.
posted by joe lisboa at 9:11 AM on October 14, 2010


I used to be worried about feeding trolls in comment threads. Now there's a solution.

This comment is certified Halal.
posted by condour75 at 9:15 AM on October 14, 2010 [5 favorites]


We don't, however, live in the bad ol' days anymore (in the Western world, anyway).

Oy. *headdesk*
posted by zennish at 9:19 AM on October 14, 2010


The best part is that England is an incredibly shockingly white country. I, an immigrant, learned this from taking and passing the English residency test.

It's more white than the Mail would lead you to believe, but there are sizeable non-white populations. East Lancashire and West Yorkshire have big Muslim and Asian communities, as does Birmingham and the Midlands. A lot of Afro-Caribbean people settled in Bristol and Birmingham, and Liverpool and Manchester have large Chinatowns. Of white immigrants, the Irish settled in Manchester and Liverpool and for some reason there are lots of Italians in Bedford and Scots in Corby.

Even though, though, the Asian population of, say, Blackburn, is about 20%. I knew maybe four or five black kids growing up - there were more Italians of my acquaintance - and I never met a Jew until I left town. Makes one wonder where the anger comes from.
posted by mippy at 9:22 AM on October 14, 2010


Racist douchebags running wild in the streets, needing a solid boot in the teeth.

My contacts aren't what they used to be, but from what I'm hearing, UK militant anti-fascism, which dropped off after the BNP moved from street demonstrations to electoral politics, has been ratcheting back up in response to the increasing prominence of the EDL. So rest assured that boots and teeth are in fact being introduced.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:27 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


EndsOfInvention : Presumably the increase in sales by people eating Kosher products is more than the cost of the tithes and extra ink required to certify their products

Fair point, and almost certainly true - And in all practicality, if that actually scales such that I end up paying the same or less (though I still don't like the idea that some portion of the price goes to supporting nonsense), I have no real problem with it.

On a smaller scale, that doesn't work out quite as well. I did, however, specifically say "mass produced", so, I'll still concede the point.


Astro Zombie : Yeah, the bolt method isn't without its problems either. Not sure why you think it's a better alternative.

No argument there - But if the FDA actually had the balls to enforce their own rules, the bolt method can work very, very well. Bleeding to death always takes half a minute or so (and can also go wrong, resulting in a slowly bleeding and very unhappy animal).



As an aside - Expressing an unpopular POV doesn't automatically make someone a troll. By way of comparison, posting an FP that can have no possible outcome but to let the self-righteous point and giggle at the silly xenophobes? Not exactly kosher territory there.
posted by pla at 9:34 AM on October 14, 2010


C'mon, England, if you didn't have ethnic immigrants, you'd have no decent food at all.
posted by klangklangston at 9:36 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


oi, Wot? E's a person an is naime is Anakin... but he will tell you who IS and IS NOT a fellow person in is head. (wait, has he even seen star wars?)

There are many studies showing how the Halal and Kosher methods are cleaner, safer, and result in less brain matter ending up dispersed in the meat. My experience with people arguing that halal and kosher are cruel, or 'bad' are people who know very little of how all other meat is 'produced'.
posted by infinite intimation at 9:43 AM on October 14, 2010


No argument there - But if the FDA actually had the balls to enforce their own rules, the bolt method can work very, very well.

Methinks your goalposts have shifted.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:46 AM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


I object to my having to pay someone else's priesthood...I object to the cost of the frickin' ink to print a tiny little "K"-in-a-diamond on the label.

Although companies may apply for kosher certification, the cost of the certification does not figure into the final cost of the product to the consumer, and is more than offset by the advantages of being certified. In 1975 the cost per item for obtaining kosher certification was estimated by The New York Times as being 6.5 millionths of a cent ($0.000000065) per item for a General Foods frozen-food item.

First of all, on behalf of my sky friend and all his priests who bother you so much, thank you for the fraction of a penny you spend per year to further our activities that somehow adversely impact you so much.

Second of all, neither Google nor Wikipedia are have that awful little "k" on them. Feel free to use them whenever you want.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:49 AM on October 14, 2010 [5 favorites]


The bolt method also very often doesn't 'super quick kill' and can go wrong.
I for one am doing no giggling while seeing the serious advancement, rise and acceptance of recent massive popularization of several flavors ofxenophobia..
wait? Hours?? You think that there is brain activity for hours?? Once the blood stops reaching the brain there is near instant blackout.
posted by infinite intimation at 9:49 AM on October 14, 2010


So, based on what PlusDistance said, are these morons actually willing to pay more for their food to be non-Halal? And if so, could a profit be made in selling them a line of homeopathic bacon?
posted by condour75 at 10:05 AM on October 14, 2010


I'm willing to bet that companies spend more money advertising in media I despise than getting kosher or halal certification.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:16 AM on October 14, 2010


By way of comparison, posting an FP that can have no possible outcome but to let the self-righteous point and giggle at the silly xenophobes?

I did no such thing. I just considered the account of the demonstration a very good article, particularly in a local paper. Nobody needs an invitation from me to find the EDL a group of - let's be frank - cunts.
posted by mippy at 10:19 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


It's more white than the Mail would lead you to believe, but there are sizeable non-white populations.

According to Wikipedia, the UK is just over 90 percent white. (I love how they break out "White British" v "other white" b the dubs.) There are about 1.2 million back people (Caribbean + Africa + other), which I am pretty sure is 1 million fewer black people than were in my subway car this morning. That's pretty damn white. (For comparison, the US is 79 percent white and (non Hispanic) whites are less than 50 percent of the population in New York City, 29 percent in Los Angeles, but are some 68 percent in London.) It's not nothing but it is hardly incredibly diverse.
posted by dame at 10:26 AM on October 14, 2010




From the article:

Kate Chamberlain, who sells pet supplies, is taking her stand on a point of principle.

"We live here all year round with all these different people," says the 59-year-old. "We know them and we know they're good people.

"I'm not a brave person, I cry at any sadness, but I'm not going to be bullied or scare-mongered into closing. This is England, right here."


Courage is not the absence of fear. Bless your heart, Kate Chamberlain!
posted by Harald74 at 10:31 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


for some reason there are lots of Italians in Bedford

Weren't both Italy and Bedford known for their footwear industries?
posted by acb at 10:43 AM on October 14, 2010


Anakin Allcock is on Facebook.

Finally, I've found the name for my two-thousand-aughts cover band.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:48 AM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


I have no problem eating a wide variety of foods. But I stopped eating Halal meat a while back. Why? Because I saw the way it was transported to Halal businesses in my neighborhood. On several occasions at different food shops, I saw men removing sides of goat and other meat from a large truck. The meat was on the floor of the truck. It was unwrapped. The workers who unloaded it walked amongst the meat with their street shoes or boots. They dragged the meat on the filthy floor of the truck.

On rainy days they tracked mud into the trucks and dragged the meat through that.

Sure, it may have been a single meat shipper. And only a few local businesses. I am in no way painting the entire Halal food business with a broad brush here.

But. I can't consider eating it without picturing a muddy slab of meat being dragged through a truck. Sorry.
posted by Splunge at 10:58 AM on October 14, 2010


You know there's more to kosher and halal than the slaughter. There's heightened sanitary standards for the butchering and processing of the meat. This gentile only eats kosher hot dogs-- because I know I'm getting beef and nothing but beef which is more than can be said for the FDA approved weiner products.
posted by leonard horner at 11:00 AM on October 14, 2010


Which is to say I find this halal hysteria hysterical.
posted by leonard horner at 11:01 AM on October 14, 2010


According to Wikipedia, the UK is just over 90 percent white. (I love how they break out "White British" v "other white" b the dubs

Makes sense to me. I'm 'other white', so are the (white) Americans who live here, the white Europeans etc. Like anywhere else, the ethnicities on a census form will reflect the population (in New Zealand, you have different Pacific Island ethnicities as choices, but you don't have the same range of Afro-Caribbean ethnicities that you have in the UK, for example).

By the way, that Wikipedia data will be 10 years out of date. Though your main point is a good one - the UK is very white - a lot whiter than the other English-speaking countries.
posted by Infinite Jest at 11:26 AM on October 14, 2010


Mod note: folks, if you have issues with a specific user, take them to email or MeTa. If you are someone concerned with people thinking you are a troll, you can probably work on your presentation some.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2010


> But on the flipside I would imagine pubs, football grounds and high streets in Plymouth, Bradford etc were
> probably quite pleasant places for the duration of the march.

Why Bradford? You do know Bradford was their previous target?
posted by vbfg at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2010


If you remove London from the equation it is almost as white as those deplorable little cracker towns in the south of the U.S. that most people, even in England, believe are abhorrent.

Huh? Birmingham (UK's 2nd city) has a higher non-white population than London and there are many other smaller cities that do too. Maybe a little research might be in order?

Immigrant populations tend to the cities rather than the countryside in most countries.
posted by i_cola at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2010


C'mon, England, if you didn't have ethnic immigrants, you'd have no decent food at all.

Er, nor would the US or Canada ;-)
posted by i_cola at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm stunned by how well written this is. Also, as a fellow provincial hack, a little jealous.
posted by mopheeoos at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2010


Er, nor would the US or Canada ;-)

I'm sure the Native Americans could roast a good bison.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:45 PM on October 14, 2010 [2 favorites]


Pla wrote: And don't leave out the "forced tithing" angle - I have absolutely zero interest in paying a religious overseer ...

There isn't any tithing. Companies seeking kosher certification approach an organisation like the Orthodox Union and negotiate whatever changes in production are needed, and perhaps pay for supervision and so forth. They are then licensed to use that organisation's logo in exchange for an annual fee. But here's the kicker: you do not pay for any of this. It is entirely free to you - even the cost of the ink to print the logo. In fact, it actually saves you money. Here comes the economics:

Manufacturers generally want to maximise revenue. If they could raise prices but keep sales constant they would do so - Coca-Cola won't sell a drink for 50 cents if it could sell it for 55. Conversely, if a company can't make money by selling a product then it generally won't produce it at all. The price you pay doesn't depend on the actual costs: it is determined by your willingness to pay, and the willingness of millions of people like you.

So where does the money to pay for religious certification come from? It comes from company profits - if they could drop the certification and keep sales constant they would do so, and return the money to their shareholders. But they can't do that - they want the extra sales from people who keep kosher because the extra sales mean more revenue and lower average cost of production, which increases their ability to compete in marginal markets - ones where they can only sell their product by lowering prices. When they enter those markets they increase competition, and the increased competition means a fall in prices. So the kosher certification actually saves you money - which is what you were really concerned about, right?
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:47 PM on October 14, 2010 [7 favorites]


When I was living in London, there was an excellent Halal kebab/fish n'chips place just down the road. Every time I think of it, my stomach gets all wistful.

And yeah, screw people who are uptight about other cultures. The world is changing. Why not focus on the actually negative things that are happening -- corporatization, environmental destruction, infringement on liberties, etc. Halal fast food is not going to real affect you one way or the other.

Except to make me incredibly hungry, and my stomach very very sad.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:19 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


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