Do you know where your kids are?

October 15, 2010 12:42 PM

25 most dangerous neighborhoods 2010. Click through the maps for some more specific data.
posted by cmoj (104 comments total)

So, don't live east of the Mississippi, but including some of Texas? I already win.
posted by ZaneJ. at 12:44 PM on October 15, 2010

Full disclosure: former Atlantan.

My husband and I made a visit back to my old stomping grounds a couple of weeks ago---Cabbagetown/Reynoldstown area---and this came up near gleefully over drinks and at dinner. There were shades of "can't you believe it", stories dredged up from things happening to FOAFs, a couple of personal experiences, but on the whole, people were fairly sanguine. Those zipcodes in the Atl have been like that for ages--except for the Georgia Tech area. Shit over there has exploded as far as crime goes in the past two years. You want to live intown? Go ahead. It's great. But if you're in a "transitioning" neighborhood, you can't be too shocked. Even the tonier neighborhoods still experience a goodly amount of disreputable behavior.
posted by Kitteh at 12:47 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

Upon visiting Memphis, my initial impression was "The bad part of Memphis is Memphis," so I'm not surprised to see it show up on this map.
posted by Turkey Glue at 12:48 PM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]

Wow, Los Angeles, Oakland, San Bernardino...not even in the top 25. Congratulations!

Forth Worth? I thought downtown Dallas was supposed to be bad.
posted by Xoebe at 12:48 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Interesting data.

Some of the comments on there are really disheartening, though. A few crusaders for rationality are trying to hold down the fort, but you can tell fear and ignorance has taken hold.
posted by defenestration at 12:48 PM on October 15, 2010

Believe it or not, this area used to be worse.
posted by Mister_A at 12:48 PM on October 15, 2010

I clicked into this list, thinking, "Chicago never wins any city awards. They've got to have something here." Quickly threw my hands up in the air and said, "We're number one! We're number one!" before realizing what that meant.
posted by LSK at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]

But "Straight Outta Cleveland" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
posted by katillathehun at 12:50 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

> So, don't live east of the Mississippi, but including some of Texas? I already win.

Las Vegas, NV, has three appearances on the list, which is impressive considering its size. Kansas City, MO also shows up.
posted by ardgedee at 12:51 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

So I get all this aggro, and no consolation prize?
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:51 PM on October 15, 2010

Miami's just not what it used to be
posted by motorcycles are jets at 12:52 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

Navy Yard, DC? Where the stadium is?

HA
posted by windbox at 12:53 PM on October 15, 2010

...No seriously, how the fuck did Navy Yard end up on this list?
posted by windbox at 12:54 PM on October 15, 2010

happy (and sorta surprised) to see Oakland not winning one of these awards for once :)
posted by supermedusa at 12:54 PM on October 15, 2010

I'm surprised Cincinnati is on there. Not surprised about Cleveland.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:57 PM on October 15, 2010

Oakland has been gentrified so much the worst crime there is shoplifting.
posted by Cyclopsis Raptor at 12:57 PM on October 15, 2010

Proud to say I lived in one (for a very scary two months) and worked in the other!

I remember the 4th of July in the bar I worked at in North Vegas. Couldn't tell the firecrackers from the gun shots.
posted by lattiboy at 1:01 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I grew up in Fort Worth and was kinda confused by this. There are much worse neighborhoods in Fort Worth, but then I realized... this isn't measuring bad neighborhoods, it's measuring dangerous neighborhoods, which are not the same thing.

The worse neighborhood I was thinking of (Stop Six) is fairly isolated in the center of poor minority neighborhoods. If Texas society socialites showed up there, then they probably would run into trouble, but they don't. The area they point out is kitty corner from the newly-styled-to-be trendy downtown, near the growing hospital district with lots of ethnic and vegan restaurants, and not far from some of those poor minority neighborhoods I mentioned.

Similarly, as far as I know the Chicago area that's #1 is the border between a college/hipster/trendy area and what I've been told is the "bad part" of Chicago... Garfield Park. Kind of a specific distinction, but it makes sense that the tectonic convergence of trendster kids and poor neighborhoods might make waves. But, then, those are the only two neighborhoods I have any idea about and I've been out of Fort Worth for years and just got to Chicago.
posted by cmoj at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2010

Hey, East Breckenridge in Louisville isn't *that* bad. Damn.
posted by dilettante at 1:05 PM on October 15, 2010

windbox: dcist had a pretty good takedown about navy yard (of all places) being a "dangerous neighborhood." because...yeah, it ain't.
posted by zap rowsdower at 1:05 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

Reading the comments apparently the best way to identify a criminal is that they are saggy-pantsed, gold-chain-wearing homies spreading crime everywhere.

Spread some crime.
posted by pianomover at 1:07 PM on October 15, 2010

Hey, I'm 'Straight Outta Cleveland'.

Interesting, but I need to put on my Statistical Skeptic cap here and look at this more closely...

The #1 neighborhood has 297 crimes for a crime rate per thousand of 257.92... which looks like 1150 people in the neighborhood versus #4's 875 crimes equal a 135.09 crime rate which comes out over 6400 people. And the neighborhood should be rather similar in geographic size (if you don't assume all the maps are at the same scale; if so, that Chicago area has BIG blocks... and if so, that makes it even MORE sparsely populated). And when you click the "More on this neighborhood" link for #1, you get "More hip & trendy than 88% of U.S. neighborhoods. More walkable than 75%." WTF?

I have serious problems with this data and wish to make my usual recommendation of "How to Lie with Statistics"
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:08 PM on October 15, 2010

California was wholly shut out. I assume this will be the end of the West Coast/East Coast issue, right?
posted by norm at 1:09 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

Haubstadt, Indiana you can see Oakland, CA from there.
posted by pianomover at 1:10 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oakland has been gentrified so much the worst crime there is shoplifting.

What Oakland are you talking about?
posted by clorox at 1:11 PM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]

I visited Philadelphia for the first time a few weeks ago. My friends, who were trying to convince me to move to their fair town, took me on a walk around the city (I think we started in an area called "Center City"? It was near Reading Terminal Market. Somewhere near Chinatown, I spotted a trail of splatters that looked quite a lot like blood. We happened to be walking in the same direction as the splatters, so I kept track of them. Two blocks and lots of splatters later, we cross the street and come to find a BIG GIANT PUDDLE OF BLOOD right on the corner of a big intersection. I was the only one that had stopped to look. I was the only person who appeared shocked that here, right out in the open, was a gigantic lake of life-juice that has, to my estimation, been removed against the container's will. My friend and Philadelphian, in the most disconcertingly nonchalant manner I've ever heard stated, "oh, looks like someone caught a blade."

So, I'm not entirely surprised to see Philly on this list.
(though I will admit that the risk of "catching a blade" is totally worth it for a amazing cheesesteak and a God-Food that is the panzarotti!)
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 1:14 PM on October 15, 2010 [10 favorites]

How is half the area of the #2 city a cemetery? I mean, true, very few make it out of there alive...
posted by maryr at 1:17 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

...No seriously, how the fuck did Navy Yard end up on this list?

Because just west of S. Capitol St. are a bunch of housing projects. I lived just west of there in 2008, and lemme tell you, I really didn't want to walk home after dark from the few Nationals games I suffered through.
posted by valkyryn at 1:21 PM on October 15, 2010

Haubstadt, Indiana, only dangerous for frogs that linger near the Haub House.

Best frog's legs I've ever eaten. Not only tasted better than chicken, but were almost as big.

But I digress...
posted by mygoditsbob at 1:25 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

California was wholly shut out.

Which makes the stats seem amazingly off-kilter, because of California's population.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:25 PM on October 15, 2010

Nah - this methodology is flawed - its based on the number of people who live in area - so if its a place that gets lots of visitors but has few residents or is very lightly populated but next to a high crime area (see cemetary, ballpark, etc) you get put on this list. Would be more interesting to re-run this with some constraint on min population.
posted by JPD at 1:25 PM on October 15, 2010 [4 favorites]

OP: Are these the 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in America, or everywhere?
posted by GeorgeBickham at 1:26 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

I lived for about a year in the most dangerous area listed here - on warren blvd in chicago. it was within sight of the united center. (this is a photo taken from my then-doorstep) I just don't get why this place is higher up than all others. sure, the area is sketchy. it's desolate, with many run-down properties and a couple high-rise buildings that kids hang out in front of. at three intersections are these blue-blinking camera boxes that the CPD likes to install. you see cops cruise in cars all the time. but mostly the area struck me as desolate. few people outside, few people on the streets, few people visible anywhere. this area looked to me like a giant industrial parking lot surrounded by closed businesses, not a war zone.

this was around the time I began training for my first marathon, so I got to know those streets pretty well. people never bothered me. in fact I remember some kids I was worried about cheer me on when I slowed down, shouting things like "don't give up" and "always keep moving, that's key." that's not what you'd expect in such an area. I felt relatively safe compared to my time in college, when I lived in altadena, ca. there I constantly saw crime scenes, police helicopters and police checking out people on the sidewalks. that place felt much more violent and unstable to me.

I suppose this goes to show how wrong one can be. it took me months to realize those two old ladies down the block weren't smoking outside, they were the sorriest streetwalkers I had ever seen. but perhaps it also says something about crime statistics. I'd be curious if the ratio is so high because there are a lot fewer people living in this area than in many other similarly violent areas of chicago.

at least I now know why the delivery guy refused to leave my amazon packages at the doorstep.
posted by krautland at 1:35 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

Bah. Rankings like this presume that all crimes are reported, trust in local police is not taken into account, there is no accounting for underrporting via reclassification of crimes, etc.
posted by raysmj at 1:37 PM on October 15, 2010

here are two more images from that neighborhood: 1, 2.
posted by krautland at 1:37 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'd be curious if the ratio is so high because there are a lot fewer people living in this area than in many other similarly violent areas of chicago.

Almost certainly so.
posted by JPD at 1:37 PM on October 15, 2010

That Ikea really knocked the tough out of East Palo Alto, hey?
posted by padraigin at 1:38 PM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]

From the article lead-in:

WalletPop reveals the top 25 most dangerous neighborhoods with the highest predicted rates of violent crime in America.

I just copied the headline and pointed to the data they give. I guess I could have thought to indicate it was specific to the US, but I didn't.
posted by cmoj at 1:43 PM on October 15, 2010

The neighborhood in Charlotte is distinctly bad, no doubt. However, they have a delicious bakery called Amelie's.

Gentrification, I suppose.
posted by sonic meat machine at 1:45 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

No Argyre Planitia? Gigas Sulci? Gorgonum Chaos?

Fucking Earth bias, you people repulse me.
posted by nathancaswell at 1:46 PM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]

No.
posted by nj_subgenius at 1:50 PM on October 15, 2010

...the US is not the fucking world?

But it's on the internet and we all know America™ owns that.

Seriously, that would make a fascinating post to compare these high crime areas to places around the world. I'd like to know how Smoketown in Louisville (#14) compares to the most dangerous neighborhoods in Canada or France or Iraq or China or Somalia, mostly because I just drove through there about two hours ago. Didn't get shot at. Homeless guy waved at me though.

Context is a good thing.
posted by Mcable at 1:50 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

Nothing in Baltimore? The Wire lied to me!
posted by rocket88 at 1:50 PM on October 15, 2010

I've been to some of these specific areas, and one could really only make the "My chances of being a victim of a violent crime" claim there if one was actually into the local drug scene. If you're just passing through or have no business with people on the street, your chances aren't particularly higher.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:50 PM on October 15, 2010

Pretty cool to have California shut out. I really expected Richmond's Iron Triangle to get at least a mention. And how's SF's Hunter's Point doing these days?
posted by small_ruminant at 1:51 PM on October 15, 2010

Huh, I've been out and about near the Kansas City neighborhood, late at night. It's a few blocks from the Power and Light district and the Sprint Center, the most sanitized part of the metro area. I'd like to see statistics for the rest of the city.
posted by hellojed at 1:53 PM on October 15, 2010

I'm not really familiar with that area of Fort Worth, but to me at least it's not that close to Fairmount, the hospital district, etc. It is pretty close to some of those trendy Lancaster developments like T&P Lofts though.

I actually lived for a few weeks with a friend who had a condo right near the United Center in Chicago. The first thing you learn is, if you need to park your car on the street, never leave anything visible in it, though I actually forgot my CD visor in my car the whole time and nobody touched it. Never had any problems going to the library branch nearby or taking the buses, but I did also make sure those trips were in daylight.
posted by kmz at 1:58 PM on October 15, 2010

As I currently live in KC, I can certainly vouch for the neighborhood on this list as being one where you could just be walking through and still at risk, even during the day without intending to buy drugs. And there aren't a lot of neighborhoods I would say that about, given that I tend to feel sometimes more safe than I should, but here it's certainly true.
posted by questionsandanchors at 1:58 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Milwaukee didn't make the list?

I can see now that I've really got my work cut out for me between now and next year!
posted by quin at 2:00 PM on October 15, 2010

Yeah, I'd have to agree that study may be a bit flawed (and lacking a proper internationalist outlook!). The #7 spot identifies a slice of Atlanta that contains some student housing, a whole swath of brand new gentrified rowhouses (also serving as student housing), a homeless shelter and several outreach organizations, and, oh, some of the biggest fucking tourist destinations in the city and their surrounding swath of tourist trap restaurants and bars. Call me a batshit insane ferret, but I'm guessing your experience may vary depending on what block you live on and/or if you came into town to see the World of Coke or just to get hammered at Stats before winding your way back to the 'burbs.

Seems more like the good people at WalletPop (really? WalletPop?) just grabbed some random zip codes and did some half-assed research on the crime stats. But a random zipcode does not a neighborhood make.

They did manage to nail it on #5 though (probably by accident), as the zip code they picked encompasses a big chunk of Vine City, which has had it pretty rough the past few years.

Looks like the APD have already responded.
posted by Panjandrum at 2:00 PM on October 15, 2010

[Derail removed. If you're dead set on shouting about US vs. the world, you know where to do it.]
posted by cortex at 2:00 PM on October 15, 2010

I've been to some of these specific areas, and one could really only make the "My chances of being a victim of a violent crime" claim there if one was actually into the local drug scene. If you're just passing through or have no business with people on the street, your chances aren't particularly higher.

Bingo. I bike through a couple of these areas on a regular basis, and have lived in one of them, and have rarely felt threatened. Many, many years ago, however, I used to frequent a similar (now bulldozed) neighborhood for the purpose of buying narcotics; entirely different story.
posted by steambadger at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2010

And from Detroit, a sigh.
posted by klangklangston at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2010

And, oh yeah, 4 out of 22, ATL represent!
posted by Panjandrum at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2010

that would make a fascinating post to compare these high crime areas to places around the world.

indeed. I was quite intrigued by the post, as I've been considering travelling to Africa a bit lately which can be quite dangerous in areas. So was rather disappointed that the only places listed strangely seemed to be in the USA ostensibly the "1st world" which really couldn't be _that_ dangerous could it?
posted by mary8nne at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I didn't realize that part of Charlotte was the area that Amelie's is in. I was there (right before Philly) and went to Amelie's on four consecutive nights around 3am. My friend and I wandered all around the area by foot and not once did I feel unsafe. Huh.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 2:04 PM on October 15, 2010

Oh man... I used to live in the Philadelphia neighborhood. Like, literally at 12th and Green.

It was definitely dangerous in a statistical, I-can-hear-gunfire-monthly, lots-of-killin' sort of way. It never struck me as especially dangerous in a I-personally-might-be-a-victim way.

And it should've gotten better, since they've gentrified the bar on the corner... that place saw at least one (attempted) murder a year, in the establishment.
posted by Netzapper at 2:04 PM on October 15, 2010

I'm happy to see that neither my home town (New Orleans) nor my new town (Oakland) made the list.
posted by brundlefly at 2:04 PM on October 15, 2010

Mexico.

Ole!
posted by pianomover at 2:05 PM on October 15, 2010

Navy Yard is immensely cleaned up since the stadium went in. I have many colleagues who have worked on the grounds of the Navy Yard proper for many years, and they still are a little freaked out by how much it's changed - there are, for example, no hookers parading their wares up and down the blocks any more, and probably very few drug deals that go on in the bright light of day on most of the corners between 2nd & 5th on M.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:07 PM on October 15, 2010

Cat Pie Hurts, Amelie's is actually in NoDa, which is a sort of gentrified lofts-and-ex-factory area with art galleries and the like. However, North Davidson street is directly across the tracks from North Tryon, which is not a great place.
posted by sonic meat machine at 2:13 PM on October 15, 2010

Nah - this methodology is flawed - its based on the number of people who live in area - so if its a place that gets lots of visitors but has few residents or is very lightly populated but next to a high crime area (see cemetary, ballpark, etc) you get put on this list. Would be more interesting to re-run this with some constraint on min population.

Damn, JPD. Beat me to it.

These data are pretty much worthless.
posted by graphnerd at 2:19 PM on October 15, 2010

No Detroit, no Baltimore, no Miami, no Houston. California shut out. New York shut out (less surprising.)

And yeah, the DC one is a joke. Place where nobody lives but TONS of people visit. And not a neighborhood anyway.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:19 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Las Vegas, NV, has three appearances on the list

On the plus side, you're unlikely to find yourself in any of these areas when visiting unless you purposefully seek them out.

On the minus, all 3 are a stone's throw from my nice, quiet, safe, picturesque residential neighborhood downtown.
posted by coolguymichael at 2:22 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

No LA, no Oakland, no SF on this list makes me question it immediately. I have a hard time believing that many of those neighborhoods are more dangerous than the lowlands of East Oakland.
posted by blucevalo at 2:23 PM on October 15, 2010

I agree with the idea that we should look at things neighborhood-by-neighborhood rather than city by city.

But the population vs. crimes ratio? You need to work with more than that to seriously rate these things. I'd probably go with some kind of weighted point system to gauge it all.
posted by yeloson at 2:26 PM on October 15, 2010

When I lived in DC, I went down to the Navy Yard almost every weekend for about 10 years - 1995-2005 or so. That neighborhood had 3 underground clubs -- Tracks, Nation and The Edge, that had huge raves pretty much every week, plus a bunch of strip clubs and gay clubs that I never went to (well I guess technically all 3 of those clubs were also gay clubs). There were a bunch of nights where I was walking alone for blocks, with money in my wallet or carrying a cell phone at 3-5am, sometimes black-out drunk or on drugs, and never once felt threatened. I've spent entire nights in a car sleeping while waiting for friends to leave a club that I had gotten kicked out of. I paid a homeless guy to help me carry my drunk girlfriend to the car once.

The worst thing that ever happened to me down there was having a car broken into to steal a backpack I left in the back seat. The worst thing that happened to any of the hundreds of people that I partied with there over the years was someone getting pistol whipped when he got mugged. And you are talking about the whitest-white bread people who ever lived.

I suppose it's worse if you live there, but if that's one of the worst neighborhoods in the country, then the US is a pretty safe place to be. Or maybe I was just very stupid and very lucky.
posted by empath at 2:29 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

Or has it gotten worse since they cleared out all of those clubs for 'redevelopment'. Because that would be a delicious irony. I'll be bitter about those clubs being torn down for the rest of my life.
posted by empath at 2:31 PM on October 15, 2010

MeTa
posted by questionsandanchors at 2:33 PM on October 15, 2010

I've been to some of these specific areas, and one could really only make the "My chances of being a victim of a violent crime" claim there if one was actually into the local drug scene.

I'm guessing that is probably true. I think a lot of this may really be a list of "areas with the highest percentage of residents involved in crime." In fact, I wouldn't be surprised the drug tourism that happened in the raves down there contributed to it, but at the time, it didn't seem to be gang related and there wasn't any violence associated with it that I ever saw or heard about.
posted by empath at 2:37 PM on October 15, 2010

Yeah... That neighborhood in Philly isn't nearly as bad as some other ones in Philly. I don't get that.
posted by two lights above the sea at 2:42 PM on October 15, 2010

California, I am impressed with you for NOT making this list! Holy crap!
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:50 PM on October 15, 2010

It sounds like the biggest predictor of violence is the presence of beer serving baseball stadiums. America's favorite passtime, indeed!

Even the Paseo neighborhood in KC's main feature is a large set of parks to loiter in at night.
posted by pwnguin at 2:54 PM on October 15, 2010

I assume this will be the end of the West Coast/East Coast issue, right?


I aint no Professor Pickles, bitch!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:05 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Are they counting white collar crimes for DC?
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:07 PM on October 15, 2010

I looked at the "More on this neighborhood" link for W Lake St Chicago, rated at #1 most dangerous.

Median housing value: $323,216

Damn, talk about overcoming.
posted by WhitenoisE at 3:12 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the median housing values listed are are a pretty good indication that we're dealing with a high margin of error. One of the Atlanta "neighborhoods", Marietta St., has a median housing value of just over $400. Now, Marietta Street is not a neighborhood -- it is, rather a street, which runs from the very center of downtown Atlanta, past Georgia Tech, and plumb out into the suburbs -- but they seem to be talking about two or three blocks just west of downtown, near Centennial Olympic Park. If that is indeed what they mean, then there are probably about two hundred people who live there; half of them in a single high-security condo building that has no crime whatsoever. Thousands of people pass through the area every day, and hundreds eat and drink in the bars and restaurants. How do you calculate accurate statistics for an area like that?
posted by steambadger at 3:25 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's hard to believe that the Baltimore neighborhood (around the corner from mine) that was #5 last year has improved that much.
posted by HumanComplex at 3:29 PM on October 15, 2010

"The #7 spot identifies a slice of Atlanta that contains some student housing, a whole swath of brand new gentrified rowhouses (also serving as student housing), a homeless shelter"

I'd bet that probably skews the statistics too. In my city, the address for our wet shelter (701 Main) accounts for at least 25% of the police log listings, even though there's only 50 or so people there on any given night. I suspect it's a mix of people staying there, people who no longer stay there but have not had another address since, and people who've just gotten wise to the fact that you can tell the cops you live at 701 and keep your actual address out of the paper...?
posted by rollbiz at 3:36 PM on October 15, 2010

When I lived in DC, my friends had a place right across the street from Nationals Stadium. It was an absolutely amazing place to pregame Nats games. Before the stadium was built, it was a little sketchy. Afterwards? Not at all. I'd walk from the stadium to the Mall at any hour and not think twice about it.
posted by SNWidget at 3:53 PM on October 15, 2010

High housing prices or a neighborhood being "good" or "gentrifying" or "hip" don't make crime unlikely or statistics skewed (they might be skewed for other reasons.)

If you're going to mug, rob, or otherwise bother somebody violently in order to get cash from them do who do you pick?

1. How likely are they to fuck you up, fight back, get you arrested, retaliate?
2. Are they likely to have cash, stuff that's easy to sell, or stuff you just plain want for yourself?

Basically, risk/reward.

People who are going to (or leaving) a sporting event are generally carrying cash. A lot of crime around a major stadium makes sense. Ditto with heavy tourist areas, areas with a lot of cash/street shopping (think Herald Square in Manhattan).

Poor criminals are able to cross the street, take the bus, and otherwise commute to neighborhoods where the risk/benefit ratio is in their favor.

Of course if you're going to just get in a fight without thinking about financial gain, then that's a whole different thing.
posted by the young rope-rider at 4:13 PM on October 15, 2010

Seriously, that would make a fascinating post to compare these high crime areas to places around the world. I'd like to know how Smoketown in Louisville (#14) compares to the most dangerous neighborhoods in Canada...

According to this article, Regina is Canada's most dangerous city. The most dangerous neighbourhoods in Regina, may or may not be the most dangerous neighbourhoods in Canada. But here's some info: "Consider the fact that 15 of those killings occurred in North Central and the Core -- combined population 15,000 -- and the problem looks even starker." By my careful calculation, that's one murder per 1000 in the population.

Later in the article we find: "But violent crime has increased substantially since the mid-1990s(there were 3,205 recorded assaults in 2005)" which I believe is for the city, not the neighbourhood, which makes it 16/1000.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:35 PM on October 15, 2010

The comments on that article make me weep for this country.
posted by waitingtoderail at 5:36 PM on October 15, 2010

Viva Muera Las Vegas.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:44 PM on October 15, 2010

Hey krautland: how's the area of Lake and California these days? I had an unintended adventure in that area one fine afternoon in 1990. One that I hope to never repeat.
posted by NoMich at 6:35 PM on October 15, 2010

♪ Hide ya kids.. hide ya wife.. ♪
posted by livejamie at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2010

I lived in that North 13th St. neighborhood in Philly for a little over a year. It is run-down, desolate and formerly industrial. I wouldn't say it is the most dangerous neighborhood in Philly, though. There are way better candidates for that.

The population of that neighborhood is relatively low, though. So that could have skewed the results. Or it could be that the neighborhood has several "loft" type apartments that cater to your suburban imports such as myself. Maybe they're just more likely to report crime.

I moved out of there and went to Frankford and Lehigh, where gunshots and police helicopters made up a large part of the background noise. That's a block away from Kensington and Somerset, which is the epicenter for heroin in Philly. You're telling me that area is less dangerous than N. 13th St.? Unlikely.
posted by pantsonfire at 8:22 PM on October 15, 2010

Hey krautland: how's the area of Lake and California these days? I had an unintended adventure in that area one fine afternoon in 1990. One that I hope to never repeat.

isn't that between caltech and all those houses that are going to be torn down to make way for the freeway extension? I always thought that was a rather nice area to live in. *basically because it's across from the 134 on 'the good side'). what happened to you there?
posted by krautland at 8:28 PM on October 15, 2010

The comments on that article make me weep for this country.

For real. The comments are way scarier than the neighborhoods seem to be.
posted by fartknocker at 8:30 PM on October 15, 2010

Here's a similiar report for Canada. They rank the Crime capital via incidents of five types of crime and how they relate to the national average. Interestingly the "safest" (Caledon, Ont. at -70%) and "most dangerous" (Prince George at +90%) are separated by only 160%. Part of that of course is the averaging of neighbourhoods.

It's also interesting how the drug trade seems to impact the crime stats.
posted by Mitheral at 8:40 PM on October 15, 2010

isn't that between caltech and all those houses that are going to be torn down to make way for the freeway extension? I always thought that was a rather nice area to live in. *basically because it's across from the 134 on 'the good side'). what happened to you there?

When I was there, it was a neighborhood of bombed out shells of buildings that have stood untouched since the '68 MLK assassination riots.
I meant to get on the Ravenswood train, but got on the Lake train instead. I realized my mistake at the California stop, got off there and the world literally stopped. Seriously, every single person stopped what they were doing and watched me get escorted across the street to the other side of the el tracks. The sleeping el station guy woke with a start when he saw me and let over to the platform free of charge. It was kind of funny in a way because every single visible person made it their mission to see me safely get up the stairs from the street.
I'll never forget seeing the little kids staring out at me from the burnt out buildings. There were no windows, just sections broken out from walls of buildings.
posted by NoMich at 8:45 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

NoMich: okay, you're talking chicago when my first assumption was that you meant pasadena, ca. they have a corner with that name as well and it's fairly close to the place I also described in the comment. the lake and california you meant was a couple blocks further out the el from me. I passed through there a few times but I'm surprised they would escort you over to the other side. it's after all one of the main el lines into the loop and there are many commuters. that part always struck me as a bit livelier than my area, which didn't even have a laundromat or decent supermarket, though there was a small library branch right next to united center. I think up there is even an outdoor swimming pool.

I still wonder if I'm just being obtuse and this is a lot more violent than I noticed.

here's the chicago crime map detailing all police reports for my old area. there is activity but it's hardly a war zone. I just don't get why this is supposed to be so much worse than any other urban area in the united states.
posted by krautland at 10:01 PM on October 15, 2010

LITTLE KNOWN FACT: #10 on that list, Chattanooga Tenn, is #1 on the list of 25 most likely places a cat will chew your new shoes.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 11:45 PM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]

So the school where I used to teach and still do after-school stuff had five murders within two blocks of it in since school started back up (not to mention shootings where no one died, robberies, etc). I was SO RELIEVED to not see it on this list.

And then I thought about whether or not any of those neighborhoods are by schools. And now I'm sad.
posted by honeydew at 2:10 AM on October 16, 2010

Yeah, that Philly neighborhood wouldn't have been my choice - agree with Badlands.
posted by Pax at 2:37 AM on October 16, 2010

Or has it gotten worse since they cleared out all of those clubs for 'redevelopment'. Because that would be a delicious irony. I'll be bitter about those clubs being torn down for the rest of my life.

That neighborhood has really changed since they closed Tracks. Now it's listed hip & trendy & walkable and suburban.
posted by chrisulonic at 3:54 AM on October 16, 2010

I'm surprised Cincinnati is on there. Not surprised about Cleveland.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:57 PM on October 15 [+] [!] No other comments.

nothing surprising there. Cincinnati is like 50% black but was an early adopter of private/religious schools and public school white flight in the busing era, and despite being a storied Underground Railroad destination (and onetime residence of Harriet Beecher Stowe) has some of the worst historic and ongoing race relations of large northern cities.

That part of town (Over-the-Rhine) is a historic district that's been oscillating between gentrification and desperate ghetto for like 20 years, and was simply abandoned to ghetto for a couple of generations before that. When I was getting out of high school 20+ years ago rich white people were looking around at some of these abandoned neighborhoods and going, "gee what great architecture - let's "reclaim" it!"

FWIW, I have family and friends who live there and haven't been excessively victimized, mainly due to managing expectations (don't conspicuously display expensive shit and expect to keep it for long), not behaving like douches to the legions of poor people who still live there and living vigilantly (ie: take valuables out of your car and leave it unlocked so it can be rifled through and left undamaged).

I did see a hipster getting his ass kicked there one time but my observation of the developing situation was that he was a) behaving like a douche and b) failing to manage expectations by trying to ride a bike on the sidewalk through a crowd of kids and a dog, and then getting aggressively snotty about the dog taking a swipe at him. They knocked him off his bike but let him walk away a few minutes later.
posted by toodleydoodley at 12:12 PM on October 16, 2010

I'm really disappointed to see this story pop up here, because it's seriously terrible data. As I've written elsewhere (self-link):

The neighborhood supposedly named "W. Lake St." in Chicago is allegedly the most dangerous in the country, however, a look at the area on EveryBlock shows a smattering of recent crime -- but quite a few new businesses. CBS2 Chicago notes that the area used to include the Henry Horner Homes, but that notoriously dangerous CHA project was demolished in 2005. Another "neighborhood," called 4000 S. Federal St. in the report, also made the top 25 list. Half of it is a field.

I can't speak for other cities, but counting crime data from five or more years ago tells you nothing about how dangerous many Chicago neighborhoods are now. Especially if the older data includes public housing that no longer exists.
posted by me3dia at 3:30 PM on October 16, 2010

"LITTLE KNOWN FACT: #10 on that list, Chattanooga Tenn, is #1 on the list of 25 most likely places a cat will chew your new shoes."

Pardon me, Roy…
posted by klangklangston at 9:50 PM on October 16, 2010

1. Chicago, Ill.
Neighborhood: W. Lake St.

My mother grew up in that neighborhood, quite a long time ago, as it was going downhill. As it was coming back up in the last two decades, she had occasion to visit there and noted that it seemed so very much safer than it had when she was a teenager there, walking herself to school and back and being harassed on a daily basis. Now, years of gentrification, it's STILL number one on the list nationwide.

the point here being that my mom's a tough cookie
posted by davejay at 10:36 PM on October 16, 2010

me3dia: what you write makes a lot of sense to me given that I've lived there (I wrote about that further up in a comment). the area just doesn't seem as dangerous as they make it look.
posted by krautland at 2:28 AM on October 18, 2010

Wow, North Charleston? The area they highlight is definitely rough, but it's also mostly steel yards, factories, shipping containers, and storage yards. Not to mention that it is seriously almost the whole of the industrial area of the north peninsula. Nobody lives there because there's almost nothing there to live in...
posted by This Guy at 11:21 AM on October 18, 2010

Wow, North Charleston? The area they highlight is definitely rough, but it's also mostly steel yards, factories, shipping containers, and storage yards.

Bingo. If an area is mostly commercial, it may have a very low population but many people passing through every day. They're measuring crime rate per capita (crime divided by population), so those neighborhoods appear to have very high crime rates.

I did some amateur research on crime rates per neighborhood in Minneapolis and ran headlong into this problem. Downtown appears to have spectacularly high crime, but that's because it has many non-residents passing through each day who are potential criminals and victims -- not because there is a particularly high preponderance of criminals. In the extreme case, one Minneapolis neighborhood is a large office park with zero official population, but it had several assaults last year, so its crime rate per capita was infinite.
posted by miyabo at 2:13 PM on October 18, 2010

Pardon me, Roy…

Cheers, klangklangston. Five peeps took the time to favorite it. Not nearly as obscure as I had feared.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:43 AM on October 21, 2010